BraveMen S3E48: Lt. Col. Oliver North - The Fire and Grit of a Hero

It's not too often you have a friend who's been targeted for assassination by Abu Nudal. But I have one and he's on the program today. This is Paul Lewis Cole. Welcome to Brave Men and with Chris Shields our producer and today we have Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North on the program. He had only friend I have who's ever been targeted for assassination by Abu Nudal. That's an amazing thing. He is a Marine veteran. He's one of all kinds of awards. He was in the center of the Iran Contra controversy back when Reagan was president. Ronald Reagan actually said about him this. He said he is a true American hero. Yes. And he's an amazing man. I mean you probably didn't know much about him until I started introducing you to him right? Exactly. He had seen him on TV and stuff and he's had TV shows for years. And of course he had that that show called War Stories and Fox. But to know his background to know what he was like. No it took on a whole another. Yeah. When you started introducing me to you know how deep the man is. Exactly. And but also a big thing that stands out to me is the humility he walks in. Yeah. Because he's like he's world famous. Yes. And then he was one of the nicest guys you ever had to work with. Exactly. Yes. With looking people. One of the smoothest. Yeah. nicest people. Oh we'll do anything. Whatever you guys would like us to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're trying to serve you guys. Sure. Wait. What? Yeah. And yeah. And it was really kind of fun because it was this grandson. I think it was one of his grandkids that kind of helped make sure he was on the interview. Exactly. Because we did it on Zoom. Yes. And he's like and you see his grandson need more going right there. That was great. You know that's his real life. It was taking his grandkids. What were they doing? The day that I did the interview with him. He was about to take them out and they were going to put in fence posts. Wow. You know. And then in the middle of this interview he did a really he did a joke and it's a little crude. What? Yeah. Oh yeah. I thought it was hilarious though. You know he led me right into it. I'm like okay. And then bam. And it's it's it's awesome. And but this guy's amazing. This decorated US Marine best selling author. I've been reading one of his books. And it's about the Revolutionary War. Freedom Alliance. Hero college scholarships for children of service members killed were permanently disabled in line of duty. This man's done it all. Yeah. You know I'm so thrilled that to have a friend like this. And here's the key thing. Okay. Here's the background. Okay. Years ago when he when the Iran contra thing happened he was he was a lieutenant colonel in the Marines. Yeah. He was he was on the task force in order to do certain things in central americans so forth and so on and Middle East and etc. And it came up to be a big congressional hearing. He got called in. He was the star witness. He was the middle of it. Yeah. And the thought was we're going to bring down Reagan's presidency based on this guy turned out he was stalwart. As this thing started I happened to have an office in Washington DC in my business that I was running at the time that we had for many years in advertising and public relations and things like that. So I got in touch with them and or they got in touch with me in our office. And and one day as we were headed into a meeting I thought you know what he needs to read maximize manhood. Wow. So I handed it to Dwayne who was the working directly with Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North. And I said here I think he needs to read this. He saw I'll give it to him himself. So he gave it to him that afternoon. The hearing started two weeks later very intense public scrutiny all over the world's looking at it. And I didn't know what happened with that until later about a year later I was in we were in Atlanta and I had him come in at speak at a thing and no excuse me about two years later and I introduced him to my father Dr. Cole Ed Cole who wrote maximize manhood. And I said Colonel North's my father Dr. Ed Cole said dad this is Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North and of course he knew who he was but Colonel North looked at my dad and said Ed thank you for writing maximize manhood. Now I had known what had happened with it. He reaches in his brief briefcase Chris pulls out a maximize man who was a smaller book than it was a blue blue smaller book pulls it out. He said I read this every single day during the Iran contra hearings and this has helped shape my life as a man. And he opened it up and I looked at it and he the whole thing was all marked up. What color was it marked up? Well that's the point. You've heard me tell this. I didn't want to say that it was marked up in pink marker highlighter. I go dude this guy can't be used in pink highlighter but but the fact is maximize manhood and he told me this off off interview when we were chatting about different things I had a time recalling some of those things talking about some of the issues the nations going through today. And he said you know Paul he said your dad's book and this is uh 30 years later 30 whatever it is. And he said that really did he said I was serious when I told your dad this helped shape my life because he said I look back at the principles he said this has shaped my life as a man. Yeah yeah amazing. Yeah it is amazing and me being 26 I look at his life and all the accomplishments that he's done it's like man god if I could do half of what this man do and still walk in the level of humility he walks in yeah man and you know and that's what brave men is about it's about being a stalwart man it's about being resilient it's about you know you know we all get knocked down but the but the brave man gets back up exactly never quit never quit man and that's the thing and and so and you've read maximize manhood that's why when we talk about these resources and these tools see them at seaman.man we're not talking about hey just read a book we're talking about how to expand and change your life how to increase your capacity how to rewire your thinking so that you're thinking with a mindset of Christ how do you actually walk into the chaos of this world and come out a conqueror on the other side go to the next level yeah how do you do that yeah how do you do that and and you do that by the people you're with exactly right your closest friends those guys exactly those guys help shape your life the word of God shapes your life and then the books you read shape your life exactly it's iron sharpens iron so so when we talk about these books we talk about all these tools and materials we have and we just have so much as hard to talk about everything from achieve lab to events uh to the Monday night men on youtube you know every Monday night we're all with a different book we've done strong minute tough times never quit and we go through these things and all the different things we do yeah right working with the NFL all these things on fatherhood all this different stuff it's hard to talk about how much is there but it's huge it is right and the biggest thing too is the reality we're not just doing things we have walking examples damn walking the earth in levels of influence walk that have committed yeah yeah applying these things to their lives of change yeah we're in a fight we're in a war and Jesus didn't come to write a best-selling book he came to win a war exactly that's why Jesus came so I want you to hear this uh with Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North this is one of the greatest men I've ever met in my life he's here on brave men in order to enlarge us make us stronger and become the man that we desire to be and the man the world needs us to be here's Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North on brave men it's brave men with Paul Lewis Cole wisdom and courage for the journey I'm in a conversation with Colonel Oliver North and many of us would know him as uh as a war correspondent with Fox many of us know him from his uh television shows and and then and then and then some of us would probably still remember him as I ran contra and all of that it's amazing how you walked into those different areas of your life in a sense Colonel North having been prepared it's it's as if you you know we one of the things we talked about christian's network as a man doesn't rise to the occasion he rises or falls to the level of his preparation yeah and and I've watched you over and over and watched you closely particularly back in the 80s uh and then with the the television uh watched your life and it's fascinating to me the different aspects of your life but but uh what a lot of people don't remember even prior to that is that you won purple heart uh bronze star and one thing I learned from my friends Colonel North is I mentioned the friend of my name is Hugh I mentioned him to a friend I said you know Hugh used to be a marine and he hit me in the arm oh no oh no he hit me he used to yeah he goes uh I'm a marine true once you're in all of your marine exactly but you you were in combat and you were 21 years active duty is that correct 22 yeah 22 years and so uh so there's there's these periods of your life in which it it seems like you were ready for that season how does a man get ready for the different seasons in his life well good question first of all I didn't start out that way I was raised Roman Catholic we went to church every Sunday and my brothers and I were all older boys uh but we go into churches not known Jesus Christ I went off to the war I but I look my mom and dad met at a USO dance in 1941 right there in 1942 1943 I was born in Texas San Antonio my dad was already gone to England getting ready for Normandy why and as an inf是 us and uh so the first year and a half of my life I didn't even know I had a dad didn't even know we were supposed to have a day yeah and when he came home he was he was a very very tough fair hard nose guy uh mom was something else I never heard my mother say that I can recall anyway I can never recall my mother ever saying you will wait till your father gets home you know when you've done something that you know you've done right because she was she was she was he was a I never heard my dad utter a forliter word wow and died young he was only 67 yeah and and in many cases because he got so badly shot up hmm so I was raised in a way that understood okay you're supposed to go to church that personal relationship with Jesus Christ wasn't there you were you were raised with a standard of morality oh yeah absolutely but not a but not a deep relationship with Christ well not at all and so uh I came back to the second overseas tour in in the war zone um um it was heard a couple times pretty badly um and Betsy and I by 1975 so when you take the clock war zone you're talking Vietnam yeah yeah yeah yeah I wish you know there were there were actually about three million Americans that actually saw combat and that war wow there's a different war than my dad was in there's different Maria all my all all the males that I knew that I grew up around were veterans of either World War II Korea or both all of my uncles served in in the military and in combat and so that that generation I think was accurately described as the greatest generation was a great influence on me and my brothers and I look now at that experience and say that was great but it wasn't the kind of personal relationship so by 1975 I'm coming back from my second long overseas tour and Betsy's decided you know you love the Marine Corps more than you love me I want a divorce and I'd extended my tour because at the end you know we're over there the end of the wars is fast approaching and our unit was one of the ones that got sent into my igues lost a lot of Marines long and short of it I extended my tour and thankfully the battalion commander said no you're going to go home and so I was I went home and moved into the bachelor officer's quarters at Quantico Virginia our home that we built right outside the base was gonna be hers we're talking to each other through lawyers wow and my former battalion commander from my first tour overseas and I was a second lieutenant named Dick Schultz was at the dispensary I was peeing blood divorce was not going to marry me bother me because if the Marine Corps wanted me to be married they'd have issued me a wife and yeah right yeah and so I went to the dispensary because it's peeing blood and Dick Schultz saw me he was there getting his there are no coincidences in my life yeah but just by coincidence Dick Schultz was there getting his physical to become promoted to a brigadier general he looked at me and he said blue which was my nickname the reason that for that nickname is the coat we didn't have encrypted radios like we've gotten out days right right so we call each other if you want somebody to move north you moved in the blue direction if you want him to go south you moved in the gray direction you went east it was silver west was gold wow and kept the same code for 10 years we wondered whether bad guys were found right okay so he said blue you look like I want you to come on in here and so the doc looked at me and said well you're going through an enormous amount of stress he said Schultz said to me I want you to go see the chaplain here at the basic Juanico he helped Sally and me his wife Sally and save our marriage wow I acknowledge what was going on and so you know no marina infantry officer wants to go to a counselor no take your chaplain because everybody's going to know about it right yeah so I go to the chaplain's office on a Friday afternoon four o'clock because I want to be the last guy make the appointment I show up that's he doesn't and I'm standing there waiting and I can hear the fuzzy fuzzy stuff going on behind the door this is at the chapel of Juanico and I'm waiting looking around for some and there's a book that has to be good for Marines the title on the book was dare to discipline while I fell in the dobson I'd never heard of okay and I take the book I this series book and open the book and there in in dobson's book is the description of the locket that he was going to give their daughter she turned 21 and we had two kids at the time our daughter's oldest and then our son and I realized if we if we go through this divorce we won't be a locket for our I'll never do that yeah right and it just hit me and so the end result was after months of counseling we got back together wow and I began starting with a very small little bible study started by austrian christian fellowship that we then took with us to Newport Rhode Island we took it back down to campersjune and and it was a family bible study and I came to know jesus christ because of that it's a good thing that happened because in 1981 I got sent to the white house yeah and and and that's that's a tough environment and remember counterterrorism coordinator for national security council yeah another fascinating and I didn't know this because I was around during all that and what I didn't know is that you actually were targeted you you had a contract put out on you for assassination by abu nidol right islamic jihad a five yeah a five yeah this is this is that's not that that's not a little lightweight thing you just don't go okay well whatever well I was actually on a trip with a commandant of the Marine Corps I'd left the white house by then February 11th 1987 the organization know the peoples committee for libyan students there's a front organization for the abu nidol as long as they sent six to the guys to our house to kill me and and that's in our kids and so the FBI warned us I knew about the mission because we all that was approved by the committee that I ran as a major and then a lieutenant colonel and Marine Corps from the white house and I just gotten back the FBI had already notified Betsy sent a couple of suburban's out there to pick them up the middle of the night and about two o'clock in the morning the FBI arrested all six up wow brought him in front of the US Attorney and Arlington or Alexandria Virginia and Henry Hudson was his name and he's got him lined up there six guys it's now four in the morning and they called in a federal judge and he's lined up all the weapons they had RPGs you know this is in great falls Virginia we didn't live in fire Betsy's fire at the time so RPGs AK-47s hand grenades rocket propelled grenades an RPG machine gun macro pistols all of which they got out of a self-storage unit and all of which were you know came in diplomatic pouches at Olivia this is in the aftermath of our attack on Kathy and at the end of the day the judge says what what can I hold him on Hudson says your honor we can hold him on a title 10 violation tempted assassination of a US government officer it's a very specific paragraph in the law yeah or and the weapons charge he says well who's the office who's the government officer he said it's a technical which is a term used in in those kinds of cases where you've got top secret information the technical this was the surveillance that we had on these guys and the judge says mr. Hudson we're not going to hold a private a a secret trial at four o'clock in the morning what's the maximum I can hold these guys on the weapons charges well five hundred and thousand dollars your honor his mr. Hudson who's going to come up with three million dollars between now and nine o'clock in the morning and he said these guys and they did the living government was at the time was represented by Yugoslavia all six guys were out of jail by an eight o'clock and we ended up living with 37 federal agents that protected us until I retired from the Marines my goodness yeah there's a lot of pictures in my first book about those guys who I have enormous admiration for their naval intelligence protective security details same as the common on the Marine Corps the chairman of the joint chiefs the secretary of the Navy wow same guys and unfortunately they did and our bible study continued to meet at our house it was on first denights again in those days and they would come in every day and have to show their idea every time they show up at us because we're they actually put a double wide trailer up in the yard to protect us and of course in the hearings later that year and this is even before the uh what was what ended up being called the Iran contra hearing right yep so I pull up I pull up to the gate and Brendan Sullivan my dear friend and my lawyer the guy sat next to me during the hearings that summer council and stay hey look don't run over any of because they'd line up across the driveway to get out the gate and now infamous gate and don't hit any of them and I would do things like you know a bit of a smart ass currently if you read this morning's headlines in the Washington Post and the headlines to say Oliver North stole Nancy Reagan shoes to feed the country or something like that something yeah all this you know baloney and so never quit oh no they never did the same kind of headlines they were there every single day for nine months wow every Christmas Easter pass over let tap it didn't matter what the religious holiday they were there 24 seven and so I pull up and hill up the newspaper see if you read this headline this morning so you know guys it's an old Cal Thomas line you know guys I read two things every morning I read that newspaper and hold up in this book so I know what both sides are up to you yeah yeah all Thomas yeah what a genius you know so so here you've got this background the Iran Contra for those who don't know it was was basically you were working with President Reagan yeah and and in fact you know I was actually down there as a reporter in the middle of that whole sand and east of thing I I actually went to Borges house I went to his house and in the back of some of they they had some cars in fact what they had taken the house from Somosa sure and I was in the back of there were a couple Cadlacks and there are these kids with these AK-47s hanging I mean kids with AK-47s hanging out the windows and it's a fascinating story you know the whole piece and and if you will the whole thing was you guys were helping basically try to keep the communists from taking over Nicaragua and the rest of the country and the rest of the atmosphere really they're not always a revolution without frontiers right so and of course the end of the end result of all that is is or Tega becomes one of the wealthiest men in Central America absolutely so yeah that's kind of the way those things go isn't it you know Che Guevara was probably a real revolutionary yeah but the Castro brothers weren't I mean nonetheless they take over Che Guevara gets whacked and that is the pattern of almost every dictatorship in the world yeah I told us we're running the country they're only rich people left and around yeah it's and it's that pattern that's gone on ever since the I guess the Soviet Revolution of 1970 well that pattern's gone on since Heyman it's patterns gone on since Nebuchadnezzar it's it's it's it's it's Proverbs talks about it over and over and over that that the lust of a man's heart will actually lead him towards wanting everything for himself and so if you're not if your heart hasn't been regenerated by Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit you are of that ilk if you will even notice some very good people we know that keep moral absolutes but but you now a lot of people would also know you from television and now you've started a whole new series oh and you've got this incredible book I want to mention this the rifleman so and I want to talk about some other stuff sure but this thing I get into and I mentioned to you just before we started because I got you I knew you you know military if you're on time you're late so I knew you were going to be five minutes early on this zoom call and I and I made sure that I was going to be here ready I'll be there because he'll be early and I got into the book and I'm reading I hadn't read the preface so I went back and I'm reading that about the stuff that was dropped off had read it in depth and skimmed it and I thought and all of a sudden I found myself I'm about four minutes over time it's a fascinating book well you had that so I want to recommend this and and they can find this all over north dot com I think blue dot com would have been interesting I never knew it was taken yeah all over north dot com but the rifleman of course Barnes and Noble and Amazon and all those places so fantastic book now you read the series of books but you've also also did that the war stories you know amazing series and now you've got a whole new series is that right yeah come on American heroes yeah tell me about that and what's and then I want to come back to some of the previous stuff well follow it look at I've spent my life all of it in the company of heroes hmm heroes exist and of course heroes are all over this book I mean the ultimate hero is of course the one on across and we just two weeks ago celebrated yeah Easter in his resurrection but I enjoy the company of heroes I serve with heroes in the war myself I covered heroes for 66 embeds overseas during this long the war working for Fox and one of the things that upsets me is to see quite frankly and I'm not aiming this at anybody specific but as a general pattern what's happened to men in America is too many of them have become very selfish hmm selfless the heroes mean the ultimate act of selflessness is to be hung on across torture to death I mean it's this is not just being being beheaded like a guillotine and forgive those things in it yeah and for exactly while in the midst of it right forgive them father for they know not what they do and so I want to be able to instill some of the sense of if you will enthusiasm or inspiration by heroes by talking about them by writing about them and by keeping company with them and so we've started this new series we're now going into a little bit of a dance because we're not doing it as a podcast you can't run all over the country interviewing these guys I've got a deal worked out with a Carnegie metal heroes fun wow which in which they they give us the information on additional members of the very exclusive hero club if you will from commanding Carnegie and so we're gonna go back to that as soon as but we're not got a podcast if you go to Oliver North dot com you can click right down see the podcast that we're doing just like and then the series is also is on youtube yes it is so that's a there's two billion people on youtube now so I mean I know two of them yeah so it's so it's so it's so it's bigger in that sense than any broadcast outlet it is pretty amazing so I'm excited about seeing that series by getting into it you can I think the easiest way for people to access it would be all over north dot com then just click on the different links right but if I went to youtube what what but I put into youtube chrome north well you just click on that link it takes you directly to all those videos that okay yeah yeah so if you go to Oliver North dot com and scroll down and you see where it says and then that far right side of that toolbar you don't want to do it now because I'll just given my computer components I will yeah yeah don't you do that we look around for a moment you know who's there's my kids say you know dad dad suffers from two diseases he has cultural deficit disorder right and computer deficit disorder right and they both got the same initials yeah you know I actually sort of doubt that but I do think it's fun the way our kids do give us a bad time about certain things but you've got four children and how many grandchildren 18 18 so they span college sophomore all the way down to five months five months and you and your wife Betsy have celebrated now just over 50 years of marriage 51 we celebrate 51 November 51 it's amazing we're just a few years behind you but I can't say anything my wife told me this she said when we when we hit 50 then you can tell people she says but until then they just add up the numbers and I don't want them to add anything up well you know one of our kids was out of the farmland over the weekend and and you know they've tried me a good bit mom how did you do it how did you make 51 years with this guy your answer was well he was gone for half of it so we really want to make the 25 years so no that's a good point because I've been that I've been gone that much too yeah well in fact I think if you added it up I've probably spent more time with Betsy the last two months then I have been as 20 years seriously I mean we were with each other 24 seven I'm I'm now in my office but I mean she's just minutes from me yeah so and and being able to watch what's happening in in the world today we took a walk down by the route we're right on the Shenandoah River I moved way I'm married way up yes and so their her cat her cows are capping the Eagles are nesting and there's hatchlings you can see the quorum ants which are very rare birds quorum ants are right there and perched on a log over the river because they're looking for fish because they're fishing birds oh yeah right so all of that's happening the fox the Casey Chase did all those kinds of things because it's springtime yeah I guess so darn frustrated when I see people do nothing but bad melting one another yeah they're chronically depressed so I was being inspired and so I'm using these heroes as an opportunity to inspire people to be better than the otherwise might be yeah you know the story about you know you said you're married up the the there's a joke in Brazil and we have a large a couple thousand churches using the Maximized Manhood Curriculum in Brazil but to joke there Colonel North is a man will look at your at your phone or photo and look at your wife and say oh I see you're a man of prayer and then the to Tom is but I guess your wife is not a woman of prayer because she married you or me yeah let's do yeah so where did you guys meet where did you and your wife meet we met my wife graduated from Penn State in 1967 I didn't graduate from Naval Academy in 1968 I'm a year older than she is but she was a business major she took over as a retail sales manager and a Hect company store in Maryland Hect company used to be a big chain spawn now so they have a lot of others brick and mortar yeah and my cousin worked for her and the young woman with whom I had been engaged before planning to get married right after the Naval Academy had sent the ring back and she actually married one of her college professors when she worked on her master's degree wow and and she sent the ring back and I decided at that point from rink where one may have a wife deliciously one right all along and my cousin kept saying I'm working for this absolutely gorgeous drop dead person and she's my cousin was going to University of Virginia University of Maryland right down the road from where Betsy's going to work and she convinced me well actually my brother convinced me because my brother was getting ready to go off to the war a little brother and and our cousin was telling about this drop dead gorgeous woman that she worked for and Jack said to me he said I'm leaving for the war here in a week he's 82nd Airborne Division with jump boots and all that stuff right he's all a ranger school and he's in his uniform he said if you're not going to go meet this girl I will I say well I'll take it so the two of us drove over to the Montgomery Mall in Maryland and we're getting 90 escalator to go up to where our cousin said she should be and Jack goes like this he says I don't know what this Betsy looks like ending I like that gal with the long legs remember this is 1968 yeah yeah right okay so many skirts were in vogue yeah anything like that with the long legs up there that blonde aldator it was her and the only thing that saved me was he got sent off to the war and I stayed for another year and we decided we get we get married I was a student at our basic course at Quantico knew I was going to go to the war we got married the day I graduated from basic courses bright I don't she tailed second lieutenant but I was following the Marines and we started a month long honeymoon driving a Marine Colonel's car from Washington DC out to California San Diego really those days he's post on the book when needed Carter will pay for gas and and no telerooms and like yeah and so he gave us I think it was $500 it was 1968 we start driving in those days we didn't have these cell phone things we didn't have things right so you had to leave a leave address and it was my dad we retired US Army Colonel and so I called home from Texas you're 13 days into our honeymoon and dad said I'm terribly sorry to tell you this but I got a telegram for you you have to be in San Diego in 72 hours wow so the two of us on our honeymoon team drove all the way across the rest of America she put me on a plane I think was a day before Thanksgiving we celebrated I celebrated Thanksgiving and Vietnam and yeah she got on a flight and came back home so if you will that was prescient for the rest of your lives the fact that you had to hurry to get to a flight yeah well we at least had we did have four kids and and she raised him right yeah she raised in the the way that they needed to be raised she did them all you know you carry a baby for nine months you know night I didn't think much about that at the time as a as a consequence of all that counseling that we had I came to have enormous admiration for her and was surrounded by Christian friends who led me on the path yeah I've said in the presence of the guy it was the greatest influence on my spiritual life John Grinnell's Lieutenant Colonel the United States Marine Corps at the time I was at headquarters Marine Corps and John Grinnell's was a road graduate of West Point not anapolis road scholar White House fellow NBA from Harvard and I used to catch him periodically because he and I were assigned to each I to a special branch at headquarters Marine Corps it was a partition separated the two of us and I could look over and I would catch him on government time reading from this being a Bible right right him he'd finished whatever work he had to do at that point and he was taken some just meditating reading a few words at the block and so when he asked me said I want you to be my operations officer in a deploying battalion we're going to leave in February this is the kids were still in school up here yeah and I accepted because I knew he was going to be a general someday not because right like I was willing to overlook the fact that behind his back people would call on the Bible thunker yeah but I'll over looked at his West Point and a Bible thunker yeah as we're getting ready it's like a true Marine yeah right this is Chris let me take a moment right in the middle of this great conversation to remind you how to get in touch with Paul and Christian men's network and the Global Fatherhood Initiative you can find all the resources for mentoring and Fatherhood at cmn.min that cmn.min Christian men's network does special events across America and around the world you can find all the information at cmn.min click on events we also have tremendous resources for churches and special discounts for groups on that website everything a church needs from a to z to mentor and disciple men of all ages and backgrounds now let's get back to this powerful interview between Paul and Oliver Norton so as we're getting ready to deploy literally the day of deployment on the pier at Morehead City North Carolina five amphibious ships lined up we're going to head to Europe become the landing force for the six fleet it's a very dangerous mission we lost 11 rains on that deploy wow there's our sister battalion that got blown up in Beirut yeah so each Marine regiment carried the same Marine Expeditionary Unit the rescue Scotto Grady also the leader by the way so on the on the pier John hands me instead of a set of orders it's in time rains unit all 1800 of us are lined up on the pier it's four o'clock in the morning because the rink or never goes anywhere in daylight there's all these heavyweights from washing the DC have come down to division commanders there and behind the chain lane fence are the wives and sweethearts and the kids saying goodbye to their loved ones learning the other side wave John Grills hands me a cop miss not this copy because the copy he gave me isn't tired of pieces beside my bed wow you says here major on our way across the Atlantic read this you have got to come to know your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ wow now nowadays you could be prosecuted for that yeah you can't proselytize from a senior to a supporter the sergeant can tell the lieutenant that but the lieutenant can't tell the sergeant right and so on the way across I started this point remember I went to church when we were kids right then go a whole lot you know I saw some great chaplains and I saw some bad ones in my days in combat I started at the beginning Genesis I wonder who he is and I as we pulled in into the Mediterranean it's a 12-day trip I've gotten almost quit at Leviticus okay so but as we're pulling the Mediterranean I've got to the first of the gospels and there is Matthew writing in chapter 8 5 through 13 need to describe something I understand it's a it's a Roman infantry officer a centurion in a place called Copernan and Jesus is there teaching and here comes the centurion who's the martial law in the in the Galilee yeah and and I've let groups out there now for 20 years that's you and I've let him out there just and that's my favorite spot it's not it's not the the stuff in Jerusalem it's all built up it's that spot right there because and now as you know because you've let groups out there too Paul the steps of that synagogue have now been excavated by the archaeologists well I think that was that that's where he moved when he started his ministry exactly so in fact the reason he moved out there is his cousin John had just been beheaded right and he goes out the Galilee and begins his three years of ministry so the moment army of infantry officers walking down he says hey and of course everybody's got to be very cautious because you never know as Josephus Jesus Christ is being watched by the officials of the high priest and by the Romans oh this is terrorist occupation exactly yeah exactly what the Roman occupation was yeah he was that's that's why Luke you know Colonel North I mentioned the guys all the time you were made for a time like this the season we're in now because Jesus was born in the middle of terrorist occupation his dad had to take him for four years to escape to Egypt Egypt then the Magi started by Daniel you know 800 years before bring the money for that to happen then he goes back to Nazareth to start his own business God is a strategic God well and as I say there's no coincidences no this there's a plan it's not yours or mine yeah we were made for times like this I I'm reading about this this Roman infantry officer it comes down since I got a six serving at home yeah would you do it and Jesus yeah let's go he says no no Lord no person of authority I can tell people to come and they come I can tell people to go and they go I know what authority is you have the authority without I'm not worthy you should come into my into my quarters at the top of the hill we're converting all the and and and Jesus says you're right go it's done as you ask and we know it's true because every word in this book is true right right and then Jesus turns to the 12 and this isn't Matthew and Luke the same way turns to the 12 and he says greater faith in that in all Israel I've not seen yeah why does he say that because hey Jesus knows what's gonna happen he knows the plan he knows what's gonna happen to him and the Roman infantry officers just put his life at risk because the panel what what what is Jesus executed for the crime of treason right king of blues right anybody who consorts this is Roman law if you can sort with traitor you are subject to the same sanction and the Roman infantry officer knows that so this captain of infantry and the Roman army is just put his life at risk for what he's in the translation I've got one of the translations Luke says it's not a servant it's a slave so he has put his life at risk for the benefit of a servant at least the subordinate for certain and probably slave yeah and why not for a promotion not for a not for a pay raise he did it because he cared more about that servant than he quite cared about himself John Grimmels had put his career at risk for me wow the presence of dozens of other people middle of the night here read this book you have got wow so my my transformation occurs as the USS Austin is sailing across the Straits of Gibraltar into the Mediterranean and I realized John Grimmels put himself at risk for me support put his career at risk he'd be executed like the Roman soldier would have been the fact that that occurred where it was and when it was changed my life forever I was 35 years and that's how I came to know your dad wow his consequence of that yeah and and and so I have mistakenly I have said to some John Grimmels led me to the Lord John heard me say that at a prayer breakfast in Charleston by the way I was right about something he did become a marine general retired with two stars became the headmaster of a boy school called Woodbury Forest in Virginia then the president of the citadel John Grimmels has been an example it wouldn't have mattered what John Grimmels said he acted like he behaved as a man who knew Jesus and that's the kind of people you and I need to be around yeah and what did what did he correct you he corrected me by saying I couldn't lead you to the word you have to make that decision yeah I can show you the path that I took right I can show you the path that I took but you have to make that decision yeah and and and no now after what 40 years of studying this book and and and and your dad I've concluded Paul that that one coming to know Jesus Christ is a great thing yeah better the better yet when I get there I know what's going to happen right could happen on my way home today get right by knee team Miller I know that I know where I'm going and I know why I'm going there yeah when I get there there's gonna be a large crowd gathered out in front say so that as so be into hell he was a he's killed people he's done terrible things he didn't get along with his wife for you know years and and you're gonna let him in and Jesus Christ is gonna sit there and say I would those who are mine be with me where I am for my greater glory wow see and so I know his name better yet he knows mine yeah so that that courage of him doing that the courage of the Matthew 8 is centurion so let me just speak to that quickly Isaiah the third chapter says first couple verses God's correcting Israel again the first covenant the the Old Testament if you was a picture of God trying to bring a group of people to a place of maturity which is his desire for every single man and in this particular setting Isaiah 3 he's again they think they're strong enough on their own they feel like they can do what they want to do he says okay you think you're all bad I'm gonna take from you and he's and he describes himself he says your support your bread and your water which basically the the support of the father the bread being Jesus the water the Holy Spirit but then he says there's two people when I take them out of the culture the culture will begin to tip over and he says I'll and here's the first two people he says I will take from you the hero and the warrior every great culture curl in north is built on the courage of its the character of its heroes and the courage of its warriors the character of its heroes and the courage of its warriors true of every great culture true of every great family and true of every great church so I thank God that you know I've watched you over the years I watched you in the eye I ran contra hearings I watched you in different aspects of your life the courage to stand up and speak with love not putting people down not condemnatory but speak very openly and quite often to your own hurt of your faith in Jesus Christ and perhaps courage is one of the things that when you when we talk about manhood or masculinity in North America or the Western culture right now perhaps that's one of the things that expedience has has taken over for courage and men have have continued to be immature that's why when you talk about my dad when he wrote maximized manhood it was a call to be a courageous man well you had a great influence on me you know when you're young when you're brand new to coming to know that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior not just this ancient figure we're always a little unsteady I mean it the very first time this is the only book I've ever read from cover to cover more than once I appreciate you reading this book but this is even better and by the way what by the way just not not not to parlay this the wrong way one of the things that most people don't understand because of the misery of our own educational system is these guys weren't deists these guys weren't just guys who understood providence yeah every one of them that are in this book came to know Jesus Christ as a Lord and Savior because the setting and I didn't set it up the setting I just said it was awesome but the setting is the revolutionary war yeah and a great epidemic called smallpox yeah and yeah a viral epidemic fascinating and you track a man named Daniel Morgan an actual figure through this it is a fascinating book I'm not through with the ed but his wife Morgan's wife taught him to read and write because he was totally uneducated with again this book yeah okay and they lived together and had two children before they were married which was not uncommon in those days right and it's a pastor that becomes just like my good friend Jerry Boykin describes him as the black world regiments but there were a lot of pastors like Peter Gabriel Mullenberg and Reverend Thurston who was big influence on Morgan all those guys in those days knew exactly who Jesus Christ was they didn't hesitate to pray to him every family that lost someone had a memorial service or a funeral if they could find the bodies and bring them back most of the guys who died of smallpox on the neck I don't want to give away the end of the book but yeah but most of the guys learned hash tags spoiler alert never got to see their loved ones again yeah and I look at what's going on in our country today and I get I get these people talking about I'm so anxious I'm so I know the end of the story you know the end of the story yeah no fear I mean use common sense I when we're required to I wear a mask out there you know I go into you know Costco or whatever I wear blue gloves yeah I'm not crazy I'm maybe crazy but I'm not stupid yeah I look at I look at those kinds of things and I see people in the media going oh this is the worst thing it's ever happens I'm so anxious I'm so concerned why is it all about temporal things is it all about the fact that I mean one of the things that Betsy and I've been managed to is Ellis Ellis to bet beg is on at nine o'clock at night I'm now home right yeah I don't think we've missed a single one of these sermons I look at those things as these are wonderful opportunities how many times do you and I meet people who look at obstacles in front of them and the really opportunities that the good Lord has put in front of them yeah exactly you know a great friend of mine said a number of years ago he said you know if if the road of life you're on has no obstacles you're on the wrong road that's exactly right and you've had your share you you mentioned maximize manhood and the Lord had used that in your life and if I remember when you got your first copy it was actually one I gave to a mutual friend Dwayne yeah ward and he gave it to you and it was during those hearings yeah in the eighties well about summer yeah yeah it's amazing how just a little thing can touch somebody I tell guys now if you'll just text somebody or just give them a call there's you know brotherhood is so important I think it's I think it's the key I think it's what Jesus modeled more than anything else absolutely in fact most of his miracles were done either in the farmer's market or one of his friends houses yeah and there weren't just done in a church building I think this is one of the things that we're finding through this current crisis we're in right now in this stay in place order Stephen Mansfield and I were talking the other day about the fact that the stay in place order is is antithetical to a man's nature right we're solution oriented which is why we don't do well in conversations with our wives because we got it solved 10 seconds in it's not the point of the conversation anyway but but stay in place is such an issue and so what's happened in our culture if you will in this arrow that we're in right now you know the 25 to 35% spike in domestic violence reports in one locale in the east coast is 300% more phone calls coming in France 36% spike they're building 20 pop-up centers for trauma to help women and children and for me the stay in place orders have become a stay in hell order for too many children and women and when you look at and you mentioned it right in the front of our conversation the imbituity of men in our culture and I don't believe Colonel North you know it's it's sort of like you know you went to enable Academy you went through a Quantico you did all those things but what that did it wasn't just about learning techniques it was actually energizing something that was deep within you that got it placed in there which is God has placed in every single man is to become the man that God made him to be like Joshua with a man filled with courage and I think that that's to me that's where we as fathers in the faith and we as the church need to help men find that place that they were made to fill I think that's where we're at right now in our culture and I thank God for you Colonel North and the things you're writing things you've done you know and all of those making up to where you are today to be able to speak with the lackity and clarity and with a cogent voice of truth that's unequivocal it in other words when you say things what I appreciate about it is we're not looking for a hidden meaning well a very quick story just before all the shutdown and everything I went on a flight I think I might have been coming to Houston yeah flight out of Dallas and I'm preparing my remarks on my computer and I've got this book open on my lap the woman across the aisle from me is watching me and I'm I'm typing away and then I open the book up and she looks over at me and she says and I'm in first class I mean I've got two million miles on this silly early yeah and so she looks over at me she says you don't believe that crap to you just me she's you know you're here what are you what are you writing I said well I'm actually writing my remarks that I'm going to give tonight that a crow life dinner it was and she said that's just crap I said excuse me what do you do she said I teach philosophy at Hobart College my PhD I said do you really you must be really smart to have a PhD so maybe you can help me right here because I live on a farm kind of on our farm on a farm there are lots of deer running around number two there's cows and number three there's horses what do they eat she's well grass I said exactly but they consume it differently because when a deer poops it's little tiny marbles yeah when a horse poops it's golf balls and when a cow poops it's a big splat how do you why why she said well I don't know why I said you're telling me I shouldn't believe what I'm reading in this book and you don't know crap are you kidding so okay so I tell my kids the story and the kid and we're you know when we have everybody this is again before the before the virus caught up to everybody yeah and so we got all 18 grandkids the adults are gathered around the kitchen table right so there's 10 of us are four kids bets in me the 18 grandkids are either asleep and it's after you know maybe it's a birthday party and we so we're going around the table and grand and dad granddad gets to play a game so the game tonight is what's the most fun you've ever had and so Martin our jock son-in-law climbing Mount Everest I'm making a place but he's a jock and he's a jock doc and our sense is when is when I took the kids down to Disney World and they go around the table I think it's back to me and says dad what's the most fun you've ever had this proves all the filters you got like what's the most fun I've ever had your mother oh my god dad how can you say such a thing I said read the last here let me let me first page 268 no no you know what that's in this book too by the way okay so this is my acknowledge page 269 most importantly thank you Betsy mother of our four children grandmother of our 18 grandchildren for more than a half century you've been my mate my muse my most favorite my most fervent advocate my greatest inspiration and my best friend you are still the most fun I've ever had love it but you know but he wants us to love our wives that yeah absolutely man that's why he he created dopamine exactly then and then the in the enemy you know filtrates that negatively for guys and messes up their lives and and then he created oxytocin it's called the compadre drug which is I love because it's hanging out with guys like you which is why I love it you know there are two things about that one the bible has given me a greater degree of love for pomegranates so there's that and then secondly I always always you when you said my best friend you know it's probably true but when a lot of guys say I'm married my best friend and I'm going to do you know I did not marry my best friend I'm married to sexiest girl I ever met yeah because I never thought like this about my best friend well I'll give you this I never thought about sleeping with a grandmother before either exactly hey Colonel nor thank you for taking the time man it is great to catch up with you again and so admire the things that the Lord has done through your life and I and I appreciate let me put it this way also I appreciate the pain the hits that you've taken the 37 men are surrounding your house to protect you for your you and your wife Betsy for the times of prayer for the times of angst for the times of anxiety for the times that you've walked through in order to be able to share the gospel and minister in such a way as you are now and this new channel on youtube you can find that all over north.com and this new channel man I'm just behind that 100 percent you know the psalms psalms says I will bring the godly of the land to my home and and what that means is I want my children and I want their children to have heroes and men who have stood and men who have finished strong and so I I celebrate that in you so thank you for that and it's great to meet you again I hope our paths cross again very soon well they will they will and we know where we're going so we'll see there each other there. I was thinking about this side. I mean I admire what you're doing not only if you carried your dad's legacy but you think of the numbers of people who we're going to meet when we get there we're going to say you know I was watching you or I heard you or I yeah and it changed my life because it's not just your words or the imagery or the words that I've written or or it's how we behaved that inspired people to exactly I'd like to do that too yeah see too often I really do too often men will tell you and they'll tell me hey you know I can't really be in the ministry I run this welding business you know and it's like you being embedded 60 over 60 times in Iraq and Afghanistan and and you're you're doing a job and yet the way you carried yourself the words you use the character the the honor the things you carry in you touch people around you John John Eldridge told me the other day we were talking about how we influence people and he said you influence at minimum 87,000 other people in your life he said even if you don't go outside much fascinating so so for me every single place that we're called to serve we are the light that people see in order to see Jesus and everything we do is ministry because we are carriers the Bible says ambassadors of reconciliation reconciling them the Christ well done brother yeah so hey we pray every place you put your feet will be holy ground and everything you put your hands to will prosper and the Lord will keep you and your wife your children and your grandchildren are deep inside the grip of his favor in Jesus name amen God bless you brother thank you so provide Paul after looking at this man's life I think powerful as an understatement yeah that might be an understatement he's an amazing man you know what I love about it though is it is that you know the way he presents himself Chris and the way he talked about the word of God and he held that huge Bible up and you can see it on the video which is on our YouTube channel christianman's network YouTube and you can see the video he holds because he talks about it and we listen to it on the podcast but you can see it holds a big Bible it's all marked up and stuff you know the thing is when you see that Chris you go okay this is attainable yeah no words you don't have to be a superhero he wasn't born with some sort of difference that a chromosomes than than any of us no you know what he did though is he applied himself exactly and the you saying that specific word makes me think of John one one in the beginning was the word the word was God and the word in the beginning was the word the word was God in the word was with our yes you got it no it's the Bible you're good and the word was with the yeah you're all messed up okay but there's five million people who listen to you exactly but it's okay because it's as close to the program yes but at the same time I was always raised to it if you gonna quote it quote it right but at the same time you know what I'm referencing John one yes right the the fact that always stood out to me is John one fourteen and the word became flesh and dwelt among us yeah you see what I'm saying yeah and it's not it's the reality of us taking like you are saying all of our north holding the Bible yeah but he took that word and allowed it to become who he is yeah he became his identity his actions his words every reality of what he was encountering in that word became what he determined to live his lifestyle like and that's what we need we need men that will apply the words and say you know what this might not be my opinion but God's opinion raised higher reigns higher than mine okay now first Corinthians 16 13 says be focused doesn't man be committed be determined and be relentless focus committed determined relentless and that's what we have to be and that's who he is and man this stirs me up yeah guys like that I'm like okay you know I just did a couple times this year I've read through the whole New Testament 30 days you know did a challenge with you version yeah which we support and you know just doing that you just like okay I'm gonna have to apply myself exactly and I think we need to do that Chris I think we need to put obstacles up Dan Crenshaw and his great book fortitude said we live in a world of comfort and most people don't have resilience because they've never had to have it yeah exactly you know everything's there you go to the store everything's there you don't have to go kill anything exactly but I mean even like you one of the first things you told me when I started working with you was the reality of Chris how much are you willing to sacrifice for your dream to come true yeah you know and it's like that's the reality it's like are you disciplined enough to do whatever it takes to make the reality of what's truly in you to come to fruition yeah you see in the mean and oftentimes especially people my age 26 or younger are not willing to give that blood sweat and tears to see their dream because that's what's that's what's going to have that's what has to happen exactly you have to actually work at it dude this you know life does not give you participation trophy does it and that's why our world shouldn't either but that's the whole story participation trophy you're going to get as a headstone man exactly everybody else yeah exactly exactly but the fact is what you do in life becomes history what you put into motion becomes your legacy exactly so and and that's what you and I want to do is leave footprints and that's what brave men is about yes and I want to thank you Chris for being for producing this and putting together some of the great interviews that we've had we'll get some incredible ones coming up and what is it that we need everybody to do we need them to go on and subscribe so we need them to subscribe right and if you see it on Facebook like it and share like it and share need you to write a review tell us about how this is impacted your life and you're not going to just you 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all kinds of stuff incredible things hey thanks yeah see him in radio too don't see him in radio too yeah so that's on Alexa yeah yeah I was telling somebody about it the other day i was on the phone to go yeah it's on Alexa and the Alexa machine in my it's always listening to me goes yeah hello no no no no yeah homeland security it's in there listening to me all right man hey thank you for being with us today and brave men it really is a blessing that you would take time to be with us and i'm so thankful to lieutenant colonel all over north and his family that's in we pray blessings on them as we did during the interview but we thank god for them and men like that and men like you who are willing to listen do something about it stand up be counted for righteousness and win the battle thank you for being a part of brave men remember hope is alive hope has a name hope's name is Jesus you just experienced brave man with Paul Lewis Cole Paul is president of the Christian men's network connect with Paul at cmn dot men or write to him at Paul at cmn dot men