Brave Men S2E23: Bishop Dale C. Bronner - How To Cope With Crisis

I was sitting on the stage of a church in Atlanta, Georgia and the pastor stood up, he's a friend of mine and he got up and he began to speak and I'm sitting on the stage as a special guest a little bit off to the side. I had to look around for paper because this man began to drop nuggets so fast. I thought, man, I've got to, I know it because they were doing the announcements and I knew they weren't recording it and I pulled up some paper, I began to write things down, I repeated a few things to him, he said, did I say that? I said, yeah, you did. It just flows out of him and Brian, today I'm really, really excited to have Bishop Dale see Bronner of Word of Faith, Family Worship Cathedral in Atlanta, Georgia as our special guest, it's remarkable, and he drops stuff that's unbelievable, man, everything can rhythm and pattern and how we should conduct our lives through a crisis, absolutely remarkable. So Paul, in times of crisis, Bishop Bronner really brought some great stuff, huh? He actually gives it such a framing that I'm like, why didn't I think of that? Well, of course I didn't think of that because I'm not him. He just has a way of framing, looking at things that puts a foundation on us that helps us navigate this. So we talk, I asked him, how do you order your life during a crisis? Right. Paul made that. I said, how do you run things? How do you navigate this for tens of thousands of people that look to him for leadership? How do you speak that? How do you minister to different places? How do you conduct your church, your personal life with your children? How do we live and Brian, this guy's, his family, his father and uncle began a business called Bronner Brothers. It's the largest African-American hair care products company in the world. So he's on the board of that and his brother helps run it still and he's got another brother involved in the marketing side of it and then another brother who's pastoring his dad, his father, raised some amazing men and Bishop Dale Bronner not only has this legacy of that, but he knows how to impart it in ways, Brian, I would call it portable. In other words, as he shares things, you're like, oh, well, I could actually take this and use it. Right. Yeah. So how do you meet, how do you meet Bishop Bronner? How do you go back with him? Well, we go way back. He came to my father years ago and asked my father to be his mentor and they spent time together. This goes back 28 years, something like that. So my father, Dr. Ed Cole, for many, many years became his spiritual father. His father had left this earth and that started our connection and I remember watching him build this church after he had been working in the business for a number of years and then planted this church, family, word of faith, family worship cathedral and now they have a mega center. They've got all these different community projects, community outreach, absolutely stunning. Yeah. Now, I've done some research on Bishop Bronner and I see that he and Tyler Perry are friends and did he have a cameo? Did he have a cameo in a Tyler Perry movie? He's going to be. He's been in three of Tyler Perry's movies. It's crazy. He was a judge and one of them had a speaking part. So yeah, he actually has been approached by some people who said, how have I seen you somewhere? That's great. That's great. Well, these are definitely different times and whether we're managing our business or our family or our pets or our small business, we need all the wisdom we can get. So I'm really looking forward to this discussion with you, Paul Cole and Bishop Dailsy Bronner. I want to mention again, just before we hit the opening music that it's cmn.men is where people can find all of our resources. In fact, if you click there, you'll find the same interviews on YouTube and we've tried to put it as many places because it's so powerful. And so you'll hear Bishop Bronner right after this opening music. It's Brave Man with Paul Lewis Cole, wisdom and courage for the journey. I'm with my dear friend Bishop Dail Bronner and what a crazy time we live in, amen? It has been. Yes, yes. It's been wild. How have you now, you're responsible for a large church when the largest in the Western hemisphere? You're responsible for so many different churches that look to you for leadership and you have people who, they wonder, what am I supposed to think? You're a thought leader and you're also an abuelo, right? You're a grandpa. Yes. How do you manage yourself personally in the midst of all this? Give me your personal thing. Well, you know, my personal thing is just for me to stop and get perspective. To me before we can do anything, we have to get perspective. My brothers and I were down in Puerto Rico one time. We were out on a lake at nighttime to see some of the bioluminescent fish and we got lost in our canoes because there's no roadmaps, there's no lines in the water. And my oldest brother was the only one who was able to finish that thing in a rapid amount of time. We were going around in circles because it was pitch black darkness out there. And I asked my brother when we got through, how did you figure out which way to go? And he said to me, I looked up and followed the stars. I looked up to the heaven. And in a mid darkness on the earth, that's our first order of the day is to stop and to look up. It showed him the way through. He was able to be guided by the stars, like just like the wise men from the east in the scriptures, led them to Jesus was not merely to look around, but my faith looks up. And so it is for me to get grounded as a leader first to ground myself. I mean, you know, before you can get control of a situation, you have to get control of yourself. So I didn't personally want to be in fear and in panic. I wanted to be in a clear posture of faith. And that's where I just turned into God to say, God, what are you doing? Where are we? What do you want to accomplish? And even though the church is scattered right now, we are still the church, though we are the church scattered, not the church gathered, but we're still the church and we're going to be the church. You know, my son, Brandon, Bishop said this, he said, just because we cancel a service doesn't mean we cancel the church. Yes, they've had a t-shirt made, they've used for years, came from one of the young men in his church and just the t-shirt just says, we be church. We be church. I love it. Yes. Because we are. Every day. Yes. How do you then lead? How do you then lead? So you lead your own emotions and so you're daily routine. In other words, you didn't shift your daily routine just because the context changed. That absolutely not. You know, to me, when everything else that is around you is changing, we have to look for anchors in our life. To me, my faith is my anchor, my prayer time with God. I was on my face before the Lord at four o'clock this morning. I'm still, that's my prayer is my anchor. The word of God is my anchor. So I look for anchors, those principles, those elements of life. To me, whenever there is fear, trepidation in our hearts, we need to look for the routines that give us a comfort level, that brings security to us. And so it's the faithfulness. It's being faithful not only in the small things, but it's being faithful just in over time, in times of adversity, still not allowing crisis to interrupt our faithfulness to God. That's the real practice for me. Yeah, that has been in, because I can remember one specifically, I forget what event or venue we were at. And it got a little later in the evening, I turned around to look because you had been there with this with our group and it turned around and you were gone. And I realized we had hit a particular time that within your, the way you order your life, we had, we'd gone past that, that moment. So you did, you did what Neil Young did to Steven Steele's, you vanished, you know, sorry, a little, little musical reference from the 70s, but. It was because you have a, you've fixed your eyes on a, and focused yourself on a routine that brings you personal health. And the greater personal health you have, the greater you can help others be healthy, is that correct? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, you know, because at the end of the day, leadership is not about leading others, it's about leading yourself in a way that inspires others to follow. But that's, that's the way that, that's my whole thing. I mean, my, my whole idea as a leader, I'm just trying to lead myself in a way that inspires others to be able to follow. That's, that's what Jesus did. I mean, he just, he let himself in his relationship with his father and, and then he was able that authorized him to say to other people, follow me, follow me, the possible, follow me as I follow Christ. So he was, he was demonstrating it as a leader, it's not about leading other people. It, as much as it is about our leading ourselves in a way that, you know, that inspires other people. And the thing that some leaders think that they have to be Superman, but Superman still is Clark King. And while we make bold proclamations of faith, we can say these things, but I say, you know, courage only operates and really it comes legitimate in the face, in the face of something that is fearful. If there's no fear or risk involved, then courage is irrelevant. Courage only operates in an, in an atmosphere where there is something that threatens it. So I do what I call trusting and trembling, trusting and trembling. So we enter crisis, you don't have definitive answers. So I'm, I'm trusting God, my faith, I'm running scared. I'm not allowing the fear to paralyze me or immobilize me. I'm running scared, saying, God, I don't know exactly what the outcome is going to be. I don't know exactly what you're doing, but I'm trusting you. When I cannot trace your footsteps, when I cannot trace your hand, I'm trusting your heart. I trust you, but I'm running scared. I don't sit there, go trusting and trembling, do something, because God can only bless what we're willing to do. Wow. In other words, He can't give direction to a parked car. That sums it up. That sums it up beautifully. But we will have to just get going and then, you know, it, the boy, that is such a step of faith. And perhaps, Bishop, one of the things that we're dealing with is we have no control over a lot of the outcomes. Yes. You know, it's, it's all of a sudden I realize I don't have control of this. You've got, you have so many people you interface with and you talk with on a regular and daily basis. I'm sure there's been opportunity, perhaps even within your own family or grandchildren or whomever, where you've had to say, listen, let me help you for a moment, where you've recognized there's fear in their eyes. Yes. And you've had to speak into their life. How do you speak into that? And how do we do that? And in fact, do that for us right now. Yeah. Yeah. You know, acknowledge it. You know, faith is not the denial of what is there. It is saying that this doesn't stop me and it doesn't stop God from working despite what is happening in my life right now. So be authentic, own it, because if you don't own it, you can't disown it. So that's my idea, own it, just just say, you know what, there are a lot of unanswered questions. There's a lot of uncertainty that we have here, because the data is constantly changing. But I will say this, control what you are focusing on, because what you focus on will either feed your faith or your fear. And so if we are listening 24-7 to all of the updates on the COVID-19, we're going to become more and more fearful. It's going to give us nightmares and trepidations about our future, about our finance, about our friends, about our own public safety and health. So, but if we are feeding our faith to say, you know what, I don't know what the future holds, but I know who holds the future. I'm trusting in God. We're going to come through this and God is going to allow us to even multiply through this affliction. He's going to build the church. And maybe I'm really sensing in my spirit that this is going to be a seedbed of revival. I think that that was a breakdown in our homes, and we were trying to fix it at the church and God is driving us back to the home. Wow. You know, that whole piece about the church is growing, it's because already I hear it, I sense it, feel it, and know it just because people have told me, they miss being together. Yes. In other words, we are mutually our missing community. I think it's going to be a rush to community. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I think it is showing up so many people that had taken the physical gathering together with the believers for granted, they were using the technology, which is designed to be a supplement and not a substitute, but they were using that. And now it is creating a real hunger for authentic relationship about our own need to be together. There is something healing in our ability to touch one another. And so I do think that there is going to be just an influx of people flocking back to the house of God because we've taken it for granted. And whatever you take for granted will eventually be taken away. And then now the find ourselves back to that thing. So it will give people a deeper appreciation for the gathered body of our coming together in the house of God and being able to fellowship, touch with each other, see each other, hug each other, greet the brother and with the holy kiss, all of that. So it really helps us to see that we have real people and we need real authentic relationships to stay connected. Not only just socially, because to me, social skills are not developed on social media. So we have to be an authentic relationship face to face. There's a power in being able to look in your children's eyes and read the emotions of what's going on in their life and say, some, you know, talk to me, a grandson, a granddaughter. We can read in person when there is something that is off-counter in a child's life that you would never be able to pick up on face time. You may not be able to pick up, you know, just through a text message. But in the relationship, you can, you'll see little nuances about their behavior that something is wrong with my daughter, something is wrong with my son, something is wrong with my granddaughter, my grandson, and it allows us to be able to sometimes heal it just by reaching out and embracing them and the power of that touch, the affection, the love that comes from my heart, there's a healing power that God has placed there. And so God knows something about that proximity in our coming together as believers. You know, it's something we shared last week on our podcast, which this will be not only on some of our Facebook sites, but it'll be part of our Brave Men podcast. So thank you for being on that. Bishop Bronner, I also want to mention again, while I haven't mentioned it, Bishop Bronner, you passed a word of faith, family worship cathedral there in Atlanta, Georgia, one of the greatest churches in the world and in the Western hemisphere, very significant work. And, but you're also the chairman of the ministry board for Christian men's network. And we're always appreciative of that and of your input and your, your word on Brave Men last week. We talked about hope and we talked about hope is given to us by God, but delivered by people. Oh, wow. Hope is given to us by the Lord, but delivered by people that hope has always been born out in community. That whenever you saw the life of Christ, and we only have 26 to 40 days of his life, all of the gospels, including the day the day he was off in the temple and his birth and the run to Egypt and all 26 to 40 days is what the ologians tell us and we see those slices of his life those days. And almost every time we see him, he's with friends. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. And almost every time it's around food or fellowship, not in the synagogue. In fact, most of his miracles, not accomplished in the synagogue. They were in the streets and people's homes and in the farmer's market. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I believe what this is doing is going to give us more of a sense. I'm praying, Bishop, for a surge of compassion. Yes, that people come together, but recognize this may not always be how we get to do this. We're going to enjoy it right now, but we need to be out. Yes, yes, we did, we did a duty, we're going to do a little block party where we all sit at the end of our driveway. Well, and, and, and I guess I don't know how, but yell at each other or something. We did a, we did a Zoom dinner party that are now with about six couples. And we all had dinner together on a Zoom platform. Wow. And, but it was great because one of the girls, one of the ladies, her mom was being tested for coronavirus. Prayed with her. Another one had a friend who was ill and so we got to pray with him. So there's community. So hope, yes, hope comes from the Lord, but it's shared in community. Yes, yes. Now, now let's talk about navigating through this. What is the navigational path that is a servant leader or a pastor that I should be looking at right now? Let's say over the next 90 days, you know, we're starting to see men, Monday night, men, Monday night, March 30th. When you hear this on a podcast, we might be in our second or third week. That's on YouTube and all of our seam in Facebook sites. Yes. What is a pastor and a servant leader need to do right now? I see many of them. They're doing funny videos or whatever. Now that's good. It alleviates the stress, maybe. Yes. But what do we need to be doing right now so that we position ourselves? Yes. For what's coming in the end of this year and in the next few years? Yes. We need to be building men and women as disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ for too long. The church has focused itself on making converts. Wow. That's not the great commission, the great commission. As you will know, as we've been involved in the work of the ministry of the Christian men's network, is discipling people around the world, man in particular, discipling men and letting men disciple their families around the world. That's the work of the mission of Jesus Christ. That's the gospel lived out. That is the great commission. But for so many, it is the great omission. And we really need to return to that in equipping members of the local church, servant leaders of Jesus Christ to make disciples share their faith, build the daily disciplines into the life, help to walk through a step by step process when they're having trouble with their children, when they're frustrated. How, what does this look like to actually walk through and live this life, demonstrate the principles of Christ, letting the fruit of the spirit. I mean, there are some people now who have their children at home. They have a greater appreciation for those teachers now. Yes. Yes. And they really need to be able to feed them a steady diet of the fruit of the spirit of that love, that joy, that peace, that, that patience, that, you know, the meatness, all of these things that are, are discipled into us, fruit, matures, it matures and, and if we're going to mature as people, we have to be able to be discipled in that maturation process so that we put away those childish, selfish things. I think the hallmark of, of childishness is selfishness. Yes. What distinguishes us as the people of God is that we are not selfish, but we, we are Christ centered, but others focused. You know, so we, we, we serve others, we disciple others, we are disciples of Jesus and disciples are the ones who make other disciples. That's the business of the church that I think that God's bringing us back to a focal point. And I think that he wants us to, to say that our first discipleship, it begins in our own home and then it spreads abroad. You know, Bishop, I, I just found this out a couple of days ago, that every women's trauma center in our county where I live and Fort Worth is full. They're asking churches to open up rec centers and fellowship halls to house the children or women who have been abused and abuse has skyrocketed because everybody got locked together by and large, not everybody. We, we, we, thank God for those who are putting themselves out there and working, keeping the water going and, yes, transportation and, and the long haul truckers and the train people and all that. Thank God for them and, and the nurses and the health care professionals here. I don't think it's not grocery store workers and the grocery store workers. I, I, I just thank, you know, I, I did a little drive by at a restaurant yesterday. We ordered out and they had a little line. You go through the line and, and they had it so well put together. And they, they come out with your stuff and they go gloves on and, of course, we have this spray and wipe and all this, you know, it's, it's like Daniel was in the lion's den. He had faith that God had stopped them, but he didn't go over and put his hand in their mouth, right, right, right. Hello, somebody, right. So these guys came out, got the food and I thanked them. I said, thank you for staying busy like this and, and so I'm thankful for that. Yes. But here's, here's my deal. The trauma centers are packed in Phoenix, Arizona. They're asking, I know the Hillsong church just opened one of their campuses. Well, for traumatized people. And if, if, here's my deal, Bishop, not only are we going to have a baby boom and next Christmas. Yeah, right. I mean, that's a given. I heard they're not going to be called millennials. They're going to be called coronials. And, and somebody told me, I mean, crown. So we'll call them crowned with righteousness. Amen. Oh, yeah. But I believe that, that we are as the church going to hit some of our worst crisis marriage situations in the, in the, just next few months. Yes. Because we're already happening. They're just going to be exposed when everybody is able to exactly correct. Yes. And we're going to have divorces. We're going to have issues. We're going to have, and you know, at the core of this whole thing is fatherlessness. What do you want to talk about? Yes. Yes, it is. Yes. Cycling men is going to be, if we don't do that, we miss this opportunity to literally shift, not just change the conversation. Yes. In fact, this would be a great title of a book, change your trajectory. Let me, let me write this down. We're laughing because if you haven't read it yet, it's a great book that Bishop Bronner wrote called changing your trajectory. And it's, it's about the change of a mindset. Yes. Brilliant book. And it was a series of talks you gave and you made them into a book. And, and so, but I believe that we have this opportunity, Bishop, right now, to, you know, get ready. If we don't prepare, and, and would you talk for a moment about preparation? I've heard you speak about this before. And we've talked about the great coach, John Wooden, who said failure to prepare is preparation for failure. Yes. And then Robert Bariger, our great friend and Lima Peru, who said at the global summit lines, Roar Conference, when he said preparation is proof you expect something to happen. Yes, yes, yes, speak to us about what does that really look like in terms of as a pastor, servant leader, as a father, as a, as a thought leader? How do I prepare right now? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I would help them to just by initially sort of distinguishing the difference between a goal and a plan. You know, a goal is a, is a desire in result. And a plan is a desire in result as well with an action plan connected to it. It has action. Planning demands action. Wow. You never make a plan that doesn't have action steps with it. If there's not something actionary that you can do that can be included in your daily routine because the secret of all success is ultimately found in the daily routine. We do prove to the world to those that we're in relationship. We prove to them what we expect by what we prepare for. You don't get what you want in life. You only get what you prepare for. You get what you prepare for. And people expect success and yet they prepare for failure. So this is a, this is a, it's such a dear subject to my heart in terms of the preparation because if God has an assignment for someone and he has somebody who is willing to do it and another person who's willing and prepared, which one do you think that he's going to send? So good. He's going to send the one that is willing and prepared. The one that's prepared to say, Lord, hear my sin, me, the one that's ready to go that has a sharpened word that has the seed to be able to sow into the field. That's the one that he's looking for. He said, he didn't say pray for the harvest. He said, pray to the Lord for the laborers, laborers that's willing. This got this prepared and we've got this incorruptible, indestructible, ever living seed of the word of God to produce the harvest. So he said, pray for laborers. This is a time for laborers to start sowing the seed of discipleship of the true principles of Jesus Christ, walking with them. And it just goes from heart to heart and breast to breast. It's this thing is a one on one. It's a small group. It happens at Starbucks. It happens in a coffee shop. It happens in a living room. It happens on the workforce. It happens on the basketball court in the bowling alley on the baseball field. It hope it happens at little league with other parents. It happens little by little with the thing that pulls us all together in common. We have to prepare for this. We believe for this thing that we've been praying for. Now we have to be prepared for that thing working and putting actionable steps to say, Lord, show me this day what I can do that will help to propel me toward the destinies that you have prepared for my life. I pray this prayer each day, you know, Lord, empower me to become everything that I shall have wished I had become when I stand before you. And so that's that's really my desire to say, Lord, you know, show me every opportunity of every person that I am duty bound to help today. Show me those that you are placing in my path today that that needs something that you've already resourced to me with. So look with them and then look without and and that's when we actually awaken. And there's so many people that start looking around in the world and they said, what does the world need? What the world needs are people who have come alive to purpose and understand why they were born. You know, when I share this next week on Facebook live, I'm going to sound like a genius. You know, you know, this is somehow I get this idea. You know how these things go, I'll change one word and then it becomes mine. And we all know who those guys are. Thank you for being with me. I want to make sure we give people your website where they can get your podcasts and all of your teaching. What is that? They can just go to Dale Bronner dot com, D-A-L-E-B-R-O-N-N-E-R dot com. Now, how did you know, wait a minute, how did you do a website without your middle initial? Because I know you, and I know you in your middle initial. And I know how much it means to you. You see, that's, that was a slip of what I call delegation. And you know me too well. Because even when I wrote down the description for our little zoom chat, I don't know if you noticed it. I wrote Bishop Dale C. Yes, yes. Ronner. Yes. I know you. I'm frankly shocked that that I know your attention to detail also. So, but Dale D-A-L-E-B-R-O-N-N-E-R dot com. And if you don't know Bishop Bronner's life story and legacy story, it is truly remarkable and amazing. And you and your wife, Nina, have carved out a sick, not just a church. People would say, well, he built a great church. Well, you know, God added the increase, but what you've done is carved out a life of consecration and anointing. Nina's music, your music, because most people don't know you're a songwriter, a musician. And in fact, I remember years ago, I actually found one of your, in fact, your first album. I found it in a vinyl record store in Amsterdam, Holland. True story. I'm the less. And then I gave it to you so you could, you know, get rid of the evidence. Yes. Yes. But the fact is, is that I thank God for your consecration. And I thank God for the things you're able to say that come out of the fact that when you were a teenager, God called you into the ministry and your, your father had such wisdom to help you navigate or to navigate you through your learning and the things that you've done. And I thank God for your lives. And I thank God for what you mean to Judy and me and what you and, how you and Nina have inspired us. Thank God I prayed blessing over your family. And I pray everything your hands touchable prosper. And every place you put your feet will be holy ground. So, Bishop Bronner, thank you for being on brave men. Thank you for being on this YouTube cast at a time that's extremely pivotal for our culture, for our families, for our nation, for our world. And for the establishing of the kingdom of heaven. Yes. Thank you, my brother. Would you pray? I don't usually do this, but would you just take a moment? I love to hear you pray. Would you just take a moment and pray a blessing over everyone that's listening or watching right now? That's certainly will. Dear Lord Jesus, we just thank you for being not only the author, but the finisher of our faith. Yeah. Thank you that everything that you have offered, that you have committed to finish. We thank you, dear God, that all is well in the end. And if all is not well, it's not the end. Thank you, Father, that as we lift our eyes to you, that our faith becomes steadfast. Thank you, dear Lord Jesus, for just allowing your presence with us in this and through this, to comfort every fear, every anxiety. And I pray, God, that you will not allow us to miss the moment of what you're doing divinely by your spirit. Jesus. And we will be the lives of men and women and boys and girls around the world. Oh God, we pray in the name of Jesus that you will turn us back to you, O God. And we will be restored, renew us as of the days of old, sensitize us, O God, and may you reorder our priorities. During this time, draw us closer to you than we've ever been, correct the wrong that's been in our life, and give us a heart of humility to be flexible in your hand, of your kingdom, discipling the lives of others God. Thank you for what you do in us and through us, may your divine protection rest over our lives. We thank you for the privilege of being able to abide under the shadow of you, the Almighty, that you protect us from every sickness, from every disease. And I thank you, God, that you bring comfort to every family to whom this disease has touched one of them. I thank you, God, that you cause your church to even multiply in your ministries around the world, God, to be saturated with hungry hearts, God, and repair us, God, to be able to meet the demand of the discipleship that you are placing in our hands during these times. And for it, we will give you the glory they honor the praise in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Well, thank you, my brother. I love you, man. And I love you and your family. And thank you to you and Nina. And we pray blessings. And hopefully soon, we will be able to hug our grandchildren. Yes. Because both of us travel so much. I know just because of safety sake, I know we're both isolated. Yes. Because of that. But I love you. And I thank God for you. I'll talk to you again next week. Absolutely. Thank you. Absolutely. Thank you. Love you, man. You've been listening to the Brave Men podcast with Paul Cole. And that great interview with Bishop Dale C. Bronner. Thanks again, Paul, for putting that together for us. For more information on CMM, we encourage you to go to CMM.Men. That's CMM.Men. And you can look at all of the different resources that are available. Including the new Monday Night Men, CMM Monday Night Men that's happening every Monday at 9 p.m. Eastern. The best way to find out about that is to follow CMM on Facebook where the team is updating that and giving the links. You can also watch it live every Monday at 9 p.m. Eastern on YouTube just search for Christian Men's Network on YouTube. If you'd like to get a hold of Paul and ask him a question, he does enjoy reading your emails. You can drop him an email at Paul at cmn.Men. That's Paul at cmn.Men. So for Paul Cole, I'm Brian Boyd. Thanks again for tuning in to the Brave Men podcast. You've just experienced Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian Men's Network. Connect with Paul at cmn.Men. Or write to him at Paul at cmn.Men.