Voices of Change: Fatherhood and Faith with Otto Kelly

00:00 - Speaker 1 So if all God's thoughts toward us are precious, then he cannot think a bad thought about us. We may think a bad thought about ourselves and try to have God endorse it, but he thinks nothing but good things about us. And once that became because I kept pronouncing that, Paul, I'd have to pronounce that all the time. God, all your thoughts toward me are precious. Wait, hold up, God. You imagined me before I was born. I'm still in your head, God, right now. Right now, I'm in your head. So good, but for me it's like you can't tell me that I'm not uniquely handcrafted by God for the sole purpose of being an extension of his goodness on this planet. 00:42 - Speaker 2 Hi, I'm Paul Cole. This is Brave Men, fired up. You're here. You're about to meet a great friend of mine, Otto Kelly. Otto Kelly is a minister, author, speaker. Most of all, he's a man who has spoken into the lies of thousands of young men across the United States and around the world. He's won awards. Naacp gave him an award for what he's done with young men at risk and then for the last 15 years he and his wife, joy, directed and headed up. He was the executive director of the Crisis Pregnancy Center in Reno, nevada, and played football University of Nevada, wolf Pack, and we're going to talk about that. He's got an NCAA Division I record. That is absolutely remarkable. It's been standing for a long time. So I'm proud of him for that Proud of my friend, and he has a ministry called Sons to Men. He is also the vice president of the Global Fatherhood Initiative, which is part of the Christian Men's Network. 01:49 So we're working together on a number of issues and initiatives and things. One of them I've got the flyer, the folder thing in front of me is called Dangerous Nations equipping the underground church, sustaining a persecuted church, and we're going into the most difficult nations in the world. Dangerous nations. We call them Basically nations where it's dangerous to be a follower of Christ, going in and helping underground church leaders speaking life into their lives, training trainers, if you will. And so Vietnam, pakistan, argentina, philippines, albania, brazil, peru, iran, tajikistan, so Urdu. And then we just have the new we're rolling out in Egypt, coming up in a couple of months. Actually, it started last year. Steve Trevino went with Ferris Abraham. They did a tremendous training session last October and a couple hundred pastors were in that. I think a hundred and just under that, a hundred and seventy-four, something like that. So the Dangerous Nations rollout of the Christian Men's Network. It is basically, it's based on this you can draw great crowds with great sermons, but you'll never change a nation until you disciple the men. 03:10 And the Global Faultyhood Initiative, and Otto's thrust into it in that sense is that he and I have just agonized, prayed over, looked at how do we help others, how do we help people on the ground? What do we do? What's our part of the fatherless issue? You know, fatherlessness is the leading indicator of poverty in every culture of the world. I don't care where I go anywhere in the world, fatherlessness is one of the core issues. When I say, hey, what's the? They'll tell me symptoms of issues. 03:43 But when I say, well, where's that come from? Is there an issue with fatherlessness? And they always tell me, yes, there's 24 in the nation where I live in the United States, 24 million children with their fatherless. I mean they have there may be somebody in the home, but it was like someone I talked to the other day. They said, yeah, he was there, but I didn't really know him. He was busy with his stuff, functionally fatherless and so and and of course that leads to poverty, which homeless issues and so forth and so on. 04:17 So so, otto's, part of the answer to that and what we're doing with the Christian Men's Network, our collaboration together, our working together, is about solving those issues. Because how do you solve the issue right, how do you solve the issues of rage and anger and young men going off on things? And you solve it with with fathers, fathers who show up, fathers whose lives are radically changed by the power of the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's how you change stuff and it's a long change. It's not going to happen because we pass more laws. My goodness man, we've got guys passing laws every day somewhere in the United States where I live there's there's people passing laws and it doesn't change fundamentally behavior, because the Bible says, in fact, in Romans it talks about, abraham wasn't known as the father of faith because he followed the rules as or as obedient to the law because if you set up a law, you're going to set up a workaround. It says that Abraham was the father of faith because he fully trusted God. He received the promise because of faith. There it is. That's our core issue. That's what Otto and I are talking about today, excited about it. Thanks for being with me on Brave Men the podcast. 05:39 And there's also a Brave Men email that comes out three times a week, highly motivational. It's a motivational email Comes out, boom, it's there at seven in the morning and you can get that. Go into show notes, go to cmnmen, say I want to be on that email list. Get that motivational email three times a week. Thank you to those who are sponsoring this podcast. Thank you to our partners, friends, the men who care enough to say, hey, I'm going to step up, be a part of sponsoring this. Those partners of ours who give monthly into the Christian Men's Network to see the lives of men changed and to do this. 06:22 Dangerous nations, outreach to reach the persecuted churches. It takes a lot to do it Reaching, saving the family, ending human trafficking, stopping fatherlessness. I'm looking at a photo of a bunch of men in the Nang sitting there watching some of the videos we produce out of our studio, fired up about stuff. You know, god wins Bottom line. Hope is alive, hope has a name. Hope has a name is Jesus. Hey, here's my great friend Otto Kelly on Brave Men. Okay, married, two sons Married two sons. 07:01 Yes, and then Alonzo, alonzo, dominic, dominic, yes, sir Zo and Dom Zo, and Dom and Alonzo came from. 07:11 - Speaker 1 Actually, it's my middle name, it's your middle name yeah, it's my middle name so that's 07:16 - Speaker 2 your yeah, yeah I didn't want to name. 07:17 - Speaker 1 I didn't want to have his own visibility. Yeah, I want to have his own identity. 07:21 - Speaker 2 You don't want to be George Foreman with one no not 15 kids. So same. 07:25 - Speaker 1 George, two, three, four. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that, I guess. I just I'd have confusion and keep my sons apart. But you're telling my sons apart, but you know. So yeah, we call them. We call them Zo and Dominic. Yeah. 07:38 - Speaker 2 And then Dominic. Where did Dominic come from? Is that a family name or something? 07:41 - Speaker 1 It is not, it's funny because you know both my sons. I would speak to them while they were in the womb. Really, yeah, I would go to that stomach and as soon as we knew they were, I knew that we were pregnant I would go down and talk to them. I'd get close to them. Really. I wanted them to know my voice and that they're secure, they're going to be okay. 08:03 - Speaker 2 The voice of the father. Yes, they're fine, they're going to be awesome? 08:08 - Speaker 1 I think so, man, and so yeah one time I was talking to over him. I was just like dude, you're going to be awesome, you're going to be amazing man, you're going to dominate everything you do. And it just stuck with me, dominic. 08:18 - Speaker 2 That comes the Dominic. Did that come from your sports background? 08:22 - Speaker 1 It did, it did. But the thing I was pronouncing over him is that, whatever circumstance you're in, you can overcome, baby. 08:28 - Speaker 3 You're going to be fine, you're going to be good. Okay, what comes at you? 08:31 - Speaker 1 You know you're going to be, you're going to make it, yeah Kind of thing. Not only make it, but you're going to thrive and dominate Dominic. That's awesome. 08:38 - Speaker 2 I love that. And you spoke? What were you speaking over Zo Same thing, Same thing yeah. 08:44 - Speaker 1 But you know I used to when they were in the womb. I quoted Psalm 139, one through 18, which is why it's such a life word for me life message for me. 08:54 I spoke it over them, read it over them to the point to where, even when they're in middle school and then in elementary school, we used to go to school and we used to call it oh Lord, and we used to just, you know, quote it before they got to school. And pretty soon, you know, it became such a part of our lives that you know, they can quote it to this day. 09:14 - Speaker 2 Really, yeah, my whole family. So you imprinted your sons with the Word of God as part of their identity. 09:22 - Speaker 1 You know, because you recognize a lot of negative stuff that's being spoken out there, a lot of mess that's out there, and as a result of that, my thought was I want them to have security in who they are knowing that they weren't a mistake, that it was by divine providence that they have existence, and so, because of that, you have purpose, you have destiny, man, you have, you have stuff all over you, and I wanted them to know that, knowing a lot of the opposing viewpoints that come out, yeah, that there was going to be a lot of a lot of traffic, yeah, a lot of mess, yeah. 09:51 - Speaker 2 And we've got 86,000 impressions a day, 6,000 discrete thoughts every day. And it's kind of like Gideon when, when Theophany, jesus shows up, looks at Gideon and says you're a mighty man, valor, and Gideon says, nah, you don't know who I am. 10:07 Yeah, telling God you don't know me, yeah so he's 14, 15 years old, which by that point identity is fairly cemented. You know, by by nine or 10 years of age we've got 70 to 75% of our identity. Talk is going on by med teens, you know. It's kind of cemented, which is why when people become a follower of Christ later in life there's a reprocessing. Everybody rebranding has to happen. But. 10:36 But so God shows up at Gideon says you know, you don't know who. And Gideon says you don't know who I am. He says no, you're a mighty man of valor. He says no, no, no. He says I'm the wimpiest guy in the kingdom. And actually he says I'm the wimpiest guy in my family, my family is the wimpiest family of our tribe, our tribe is the wimpiest tribe in the kingdom and we're all living in caves in Fjernhijde. So I'm the national one. So my question has always been who told him that? Yeah, right, and we do not hear the words of his father, even though later his father protected him. We find that later in life he dealt with that rejection in a very negative way. And so you know, that's fascinating man. You would speak that so that they would begin to get identity. 11:21 - Speaker 1 Seems that that's part of the role of a father right Big time, I think you know, we get a wonderful picture of this, with Jesus coming out of the water after being baptized and how the father said those three things to him you're my son, identity, you're my son, okay, whatever else happens. Whatever else, you're my son and I love you. And. 11:40 I'm pleased with you. And before and when that happened, it was almost like you know. Jesus wanted to hear it, and because he wanted to hear it, the father knew what he needed, so he pronounced that over him and he declared it over him, and he declared it in a verbal manner from a standpoint of everybody around hey, this is my boy. And then what happened right after that? Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted to the enemy, and the first thing that the enemy comes, came after with Jesus was this if you are, yeah, if you are. 12:12 - Speaker 2 First thing is identity On his identity, excuse me, yeah, yeah. 12:16 - Speaker 1 And as a result of that, and so for me, if you are the Christ if you are if you are. 12:20 You know, not that Jesus had to prove anything, but honestly, that's what happens with us. I mean, there's always an identity, something trying to give you a false identity, an identity of who you really are. And so for me, you know, with my sons I wanted to declare over them. I got an interesting story behind that. You know, my second son, dominic, when he was born he had some little bit of trouble coming out. Okay, it was funny man. So you know, it's just amazing thing, the love that happens once. You see that. But he had little problems coming out, so it was funny man. He had to put that little suction comb thing over his head. 12:58 Yeah, and anytime there was a contraction, it would come on. Oh, okay, yeah, so pulls him down to birth count, right? So finally, he gets out. 13:06 You know, he squirts out, right, what gets me. It was funny, man, because he's going crazy. He's like screaming, obviously, man, you know, nice warm setting. You got all these crazy voices around people yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and he's like, he's like he's a dominant on his mom. Yeah, he's screaming, he's like I ain't having it. This is crazy man, it's insane, honestly, goodness. I go over to him. I said Dominic, shuts up, he knew your voice Shut up. 13:40 He shuts up. I mean he's looking, he's looking. I know that boy, when are you? And I said son it's gonna be fine, it's gonna be okay. He shuts right up. Come on. I'm telling you, man, I'm telling you yeah. 13:53 - Speaker 2 Yeah. 13:53 - Speaker 1 And so, yeah, the voice of the father is so important and it's important to us learning to filter out all the other mess, yeah, and helping us to recognize that man we are, perfectly and wonderfully made, and with purpose and destiny. 14:05 - Speaker 2 And that'll preach right there, bro man man. That'll preach man, and we'll get back to identity stuff. But I also want to hit something because we're gonna talk, we're gonna talk, I think we're gonna talk. First of all, we talk family, but we're also gonna talk football and faith and father and football. You hold that NCAA record, dude. I mean, this blows me away, man man, seriously, as a running back, d1 NCAA highest level college there is before NIL. Yeah, yeah, right, okay. So you were getting paid, you know, behind the Walgreens, yeah, okay. 14:46 - Speaker 1 We'll leave that there. We'll leave that there, yeah. 14:48 - Speaker 2 So, but how many yards? You had one quarter where you ran for 270… the 74. Well, I was gonna say 276, it was gonna be two or three yards. 14:58 - Speaker 1 You were there you were there. You were to say, but that if I said that… Exactly, I was at somewhere 277, yeah, yeah, 274 yards and one quarter university in Nevada. 15:07 - Speaker 2 you're in the Hall of Fame there and that's still the record. 15:10 - Speaker 1 As far as I know, so we're kind of like…. 15:12 - Speaker 2 So Judy and I, my wife, we were talking the other day about that and you said, yeah, it's like the 71 Dolphins. Like anytime anybody goes undefeated in the pros for a long time, 71 Dolphins start going. No, no, no no. 15:27 Cause they're the only undefeated team all the way through the Super Bowl, and so every time that last undefeated team loses, they all pop a cork, a champagne. So our rooting now is anytime we see a running back, start getting up there in a quarter, we're gonna be like no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Come on, auto, auto. 15:45 - Speaker 1 I appreciate them. Cause a lot of bad boys out there, Okay football's changed. 15:48 - Speaker 2 I don't think we're gonna see running backs do that kind of thing in the near future. So how do you get into football? 15:55 - Speaker 1 I mean how'd that happen. Both my brothers were athletes in the Las Vegas area and I just watched them and I've always loved sports man. 16:04 - Speaker 2 And they were both older than you. 16:06 - Speaker 1 Yeah yeah, I'm the youngest of five and yeah, I watched them and they got, you know, some notoriety and it was fun, it was honestly it was fun. And you know what got me when I was in middle school my pops died and that was kind of like the thing. That kind of was a saving grace. It kind of had me pour into something and when I did that I would receive affirmation from coaches and receive, you know, significance. 16:35 - Speaker 2 But it was your older brother pulled you into, that, wasn't it? 16:38 - Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah yeah, just one. You know, as a younger brother, you want to be like your older brother. Yeah, sounds like the. 16:43 - Speaker 2 Kelsey's in a way, you know, the center for the Eagles and the tight end for the Chiefs, when the older brother pulled the younger brother through some tough stuff. So, your father died. You were, what? 12 years old 13. 16:59 - Speaker 1 13 years old and the son of prior to going to high school. 17:03 - Speaker 2 Right going into high school and your father passed away with cancer. 17:05 - Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. And then you know to honestly to watch someone who was a superhero you know kind of dwindle down. It kind of had a mark on me. 17:14 - Speaker 2 Because he had been. Your father was a musician out of Detroit, motown, all that sort of thing madness. Big time deal going on. 17:22 - Speaker 1 Yeah, moved his family from Detroit to the Vegas area. They had some great gigs and stuff out there. 17:27 - Speaker 2 So really what moved him to Vegas was music and Motown moved to LA around the same time so everything kind of went west out of Detroit. Detroit was really desiguating at the time, really going down, dissolving. So your dad, being a good dad in that sense, got you guys out of there, right yeah. 17:51 - Speaker 1 And we were thankful because we recognized that in the state that we were in, the literal state of Nevada, we recognized there were a lot of things that we had access to that perhaps we probably wouldn't have had in Michigan. But a different culture, yeah, an extremely different culture man. 18:07 - Speaker 2 He moved from. 18:08 - Speaker 1 Detroit to Henderson in 1971 or 72, something like that. Capital of Wonder Bread oh my gosh, it was all about Wonder Bread and Saltine crackers, saltine crackers and no Kool-Aid. 18:22 - Speaker 2 No Kool-Aid in the free-drager. 18:24 - Speaker 1 No Kool-Aid. No great, nothing man it was. Yeah, we tripped for a look for a minute. 18:29 - Speaker 2 Goodness, yeah, yeah, yeah, what a remarkable time. I want to come back to some of that. So really athletics was part of. If you will, out of that wounding, out of that hurt, your brother really helped pull you into yeah, or brothers, yeah, help pull you into athletics absolutely. And so the working out the coaching, yeah, those coaches sort of became surrogate fathers, yeah you know, without a doubt. 18:55 - Speaker 1 I mean you know, you, you have, you know you work hard, and then when to receive those type of Support, and that's that's it. I, that's how you do it, and then the harder the the more compliments you get, the more areas, that's a difference that you find yourself in affirmation. 19:11 - Speaker 2 Affirmation and that's it. And a man needs that. I mean, really we had have had Nancy Houston on a podcast talking about Affirmation and things. I know, as men, we need respect. In fact, the Bible says For a husband to love his wife, his Christ loved the church. But for a woman, the first thing it's the Bible says about a woman loving her husband. It says to respect. You know, there's it's, there's something about that that feeds us as as men, and that helped pull you up. 19:42 Now, was that part of that whole coaching piece? Because you've won. I'm looking at your bio man, you want all these awards, right, you? You, in fact, one of my men I mentioned right here. You were the Department of Journal Services, you're a, you're a specialist in gang culture, affirmation of youth, and you won the ND in a NAACP youth services award. Yeah, the Northern Black Cultural Awareness Society Community Service Award, mayoral proclamations, and said you, rena, washout County, department of Journal Service, on and on and on. And then, of course, that led you right into being the director of a crisis pregnancy. Yeah, when we travel and speak, oh, very close friends, when we travel and speak together and you do that thing about being the head of a crisis pregnancy center. 20:42 - Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, tell me something. Okay, guys, do me a favor. Yeah, just close your eyes, right close your eyes. That's now the picture the director, executive director of a crisis pregnancy center, and I said now open your eyes, look at me. 21:00 - Speaker 2 Which was part of why you were so successful for 15 close to 15 years. 21:05 - Speaker 1 Yeah, you know, honestly, I Was amazed that, first of all, that the Lord would pull me into something like that. And it was a pulling, because the reason why I say that is because I'm thinking father, hold up, give me gangsters. 21:21 - Speaker 2 With gangsters pregnant women. 21:24 - Speaker 1 Come on father help out, right, so make a long story short and short. Oh yeah, he let me know why, and it was because you know, as as his, as a son, he wanted to father a ministry through me, mmm, and so submitting to his lordship. It was amazing how he fathered a ministry. 21:47 So young ladies would come through the doors, freaking out, going crazy, but somehow, some way, they would sense they're accepted there. Wow, and so the father's presence is what changed everything there. So we prayed, I prayed Hard and long for, for justice presence, because once his presence is there, you know the father's presence and, and you know, unfortunately we're in a culture that birth orphans. 22:10 - Speaker 2 Yeah, it's fatherless culture. 22:11 - Speaker 1 Yeah, and so when, when, that sense of acceptance and affirmation and and a father's love, it just changes everything. And that's what happened at the, at the center. 22:21 - Speaker 2 Yeah, the presence of a father, it's true, in our lives with God. The father, which is why you know God, when he had Jesus teach us to pray, mm-hmm, tell us disciples to pray said pray this way. Our father didn't say oh, great, sovereign, right man, creator of the world, jehovah, rafa, any of these different names, right? He said, make it personal, intimate. And, as a father, this is where you find your identity. Yeah, so when you become a follower of Jesus Christ, there is a centering that happens in our identity as a man. An identity definition produces decisions which brings about our destiny. How did you heal that? You know okay, so you get into athletics. Did that fully heal that hot, that father wound? I mean, your dad was a good dad, but there's still that woundedness of he's gone that right. 23:13 You know, when I was a Senior in high school and he really didn't have time to teach you. 23:17 - Speaker 1 So I was. I mean, you figure, you know he's his, his band broke up, yeah, so now he's got five kids to take care of, wow. So you figure that there's some frustration and some hurt in him and that he's not able to live out his dream because every responsibility is a dad. And so, for me, what had helped me a couple different times, but my, my, my senior year in high school, I really asked the Muslim man, if you're real, you got to reveal yourself to me Really, yeah, and, and you know, I mean I always liked had you gone to church, or yeah, my mother my mother, you know Really kind of was a tremendous influence in regard to relationship with God. 23:53 I mean, she really taught us and showed us more than anything else by example that one can really have an intimate relationship with those you really can and so I watched it. I mean, it's one thing to say it, but I watched things happen as a result of her, her relationship with him, and I and I liked, I wanted it and I've always liked Jesus, jesus always. You know, he always was there for the broken, the disregarded, the the people in the margins? 24:19 Yeah, nobody wanted having any relationship, but he was there anyway, and so I asked him one time, you know, I said I need I hear about you, but I need to know you, I need to know you know if you're real, reveal yourself to me. And and it didn't happen, and At that moment and I got frustrated, I got mad because I was thinking I wasn't good enough. Everybody else is good enough. 24:40 - Speaker 2 But then God hears everybody else. 24:43 - Speaker 1 But yeah, but when I when I said that before I can get the word out, that's because I said why that and why not me? And and before I got the me out, spirit of God blasted me and I was completely. I mean, I knew it was him and they were so personal that you know how, like you read a book, but you know you're not reading out loud, but you hear it in your head yeah, it was something a little bit louder than that and it said he said it's me, I'm revealing myself to you. Wow, now, what I loved about that. It was so personal. He didn't say I'm Jehovah, I'm there. No, it's me. You've been the one you've been searching for. It's me, you know. Yeah, this is it, this is me, and couldn't go to sleep that night. 25:21 - Speaker 2 Anyway, maybe that's like the, that really got all that really got me getting knocked off his horse. 25:26 - Speaker 1 Yeah, that really got me, and so, from that point, you knew who was yeah. He began to clarify my relationship with him that wow are my son, dude. Do you understand that? 25:37 - Speaker 2 Yeah, my son, wow, and that is has been my identity and really that's given you your life message, sorry, yes, sir, and if you're listening or watching right now to the brave men podcast, talking with Otto Kelly, who's the vice president of the global fatherhood initiative, working with Christian men's network, also have a ministry called sons to men, been the head of Christ's Pregnancy Center, a pastor, low couple local churches, where you've worked in local churches in Reno, nevada particularly, and then also having having the ministry Helping fathers helping dads, yeah, and helping young people. So, but let me go back to this. So you have this, this thing that happens your senior, you ask the Lord and that. So how do you, how do you hear from God? How do you find direction as a man? Because a lot of guys listening right now would be like, yeah, I don't know, you know how to hear. Yeah, that's cool, he heard that voice. Dude, I don't know how to find this, this thing. 26:42 - Speaker 1 It was really powerful for me in that, right after that, he began to put Father figures in my life, hmm, and they began and they continued to speak affirmation. They continue to speak significance. No, you can. You can graduate. No, you can, you know. Because there were guys in my life. They were a little bit older but they saw things in me that I didn't see myself and I couldn't come up with the type of Images that they saw about me. I couldn't come up with those things, but when they mentioned it and I respected them, it caused me to go Okay, I guess I can, because if they believe me, so for me, hearing God's voice Was something I was hearing through other people, through other, and it would just be confirming when I would hear negative things about myself. Yeah, it would, it would hurt, but at the same time it's like no, that guy doesn't have the same influence with me as this guy who's telling me that I'm awesome. 27:42 - Speaker 2 You really have, but you have to make a decision. Yeah, because words have power, oh my god. And and we live in this digital anonymous age in which people will go on other people's Facebook and go, yeah, you're an idiot or whatever you know, or you're totally wrong, you know and just pound on each other Behind the anonymity of, yeah, I don't know who that guy is, but you can read that thing. No, that's not you. And still get hit with it, yeah, yeah. 28:13 - Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah again. For me, there is a constant barrage of negative stuff that comes at us on a daily basis. 28:23 Yeah there has to be a resolve within us to choose to believe the truth about us, because you know as well as I do and those guys are hearing negative stuff about themselves, you. They know that it's not true. They know it's not true. So for me, I've learned to. Okay, let me sift through all this stuff and really speak the truth to me. You know we're talking the other day, man, and you're talking about the importance of what David did. He learned how to, he learned how to Strengthen himself in the Lord, and there are times I just have to do that. I know my. I know my emotions are not agreeing with what my assessment of who I really am. 28:57 - Speaker 2 Yeah, David wrote until until I. David wrote to himself. Yeah, he said, why are you feeling down? But that's one of the reasons why I love David so much. Why are you? 29:05 - Speaker 1 feeling like crap. The reason, the reason why I love David so much man is this brother. He was the original gangster rapper. I don't know. Nobody said this brother would. This brother would jack up people and then Go in the studio and hook it up. 29:15 - Speaker 2 Yeah, come on, you can kill some guys right Now. 29:19 - Speaker 1 I see I don't see him doing poetry, I see him just busting the beats, and that's how I view my camera. 29:24 - Speaker 2 That's poetry. 29:25 - Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah my point is the point is is that you know I had to learn because, again, this on a daily basis, of a rise of things that come out of you that are not you. That's not you. They want you to believe that it's you, but it's not you, and so I have to verbally open my mouth. I have to. It's like, like it's important for us to develop a discipline to tell the truth about ourselves, because it's easy to believe the lie. You don't have to do anything about it. 29:52 - Speaker 2 No, it's easy to believe lie. We're negative by nature, yeah but, yeah, david. 29:55 When David said that, he said why are you down, soul? And then he says but I will trust in the Lord anyway. And so he began to speak to himself. There is a, if you will, to be in a follower of Christ. I think there is noise, I think there's a loudness to it, I think there's a place for contemplative. But when the earth was created, there was noise. Man, when, when, let light be the song that came out of the heavens, form the earth, you know, and cause the planets to go off into exponential increase which is still doing man an increasing velocity. 30:30 There was noise, there was stuff that happened, and and when we think about heaven, is, it's not a contemplative place? If there's, if there's a whole bunch of guys throwing their crowns down, quiet, shouting, you know, holy is the Lord and holy, holy, holy, day and night. You know the angels singing at the birth of Christ, angel singing, and so I think there's a place for this, that speaking to yourself, confession, so that's like out loud, say that's not me. You know that thought, you know it's. 31:04 It's sort of like a psychologist will tell us that every day, man or woman wakes up in the morning with a negative thought. In other words, it's just, it's part of the world in which we live, humanity. I look at it as as a Goliath Came up against Israel, cursed them, telling them they're not good enough, god's not big enough. And every day we wake up with with the Goliath and we have to do what David did. And David said today I'm going to take you out, so today I'm going to speak life over you and you got to speak life over yourself. Yeah, how do you practice that auto in your, in your normal life? Because you live a very busy life, a lot going on, you know, um. 31:45 - Speaker 1 You know, um, I by nature have always been an early riser and as soon as I wake up, even in the middle of the night, it's like it's negative stuff, man. 31:56 It's just it's negative stuff. And the only way I it's not the only way that I can get out of that is to declare the truth about me. I mean, not just think it, but open my mouth and declare it. I have to. I have to because the lies are so loud and my emotions and my flesh, the lies, are so believable that it responds to that. 32:23 - Speaker 2 Wow, that is a huge one right there, because a powerful lie is close to the truth. My father used to teach who you traveled with, by the way, when you talk about mentors that came into your life, my father, Dr Ed Cole. I was good to that. Okay, we'll get there. But dad used to say half truth is a whole lot. In other words, a lie to be really vicious and damning, has this little kernel of eh, maybe, maybe it could be. You know, you're this, you're that, these words, and you go eh, yeah, maybe, because I know me, I know I'm not perfect, so, eh, and then that's where you have to come back and say no, that's a lie, Right, it is it is so remarkably believable that your emotions and your flesh responds to that lie and it takes it on. 33:13 - Speaker 1 It actually takes it on. There were certain things that were said over me growing up that I took it on, and but then, when it was revealed to me by by, I believe, the Holy Spirit, through men and through people, no, this is who you really are. And it resonated inside of me. It really did. It was small, but it resonated, and so, because of that, those are the things that I declared and I have to. I have to. There are so many, you know again, mistakes or or, or what people would consider to be failures that I had in my life, and if I was to believe that the failure was the the end of the game, then I wouldn't be here. But having to recognize that failure is just like doing a rap. You know, doing, doing, doing. You're on the bench man. You got to have resistance. You kind of get, you're going to get stronger if you don't have resistance. So what can I tell you? I have to, I have to play mind games with me in order to get rolling you know, so there will be resistance, yeah. 34:13 So for me it's like every day. Every day. Yeah, resistance is always there, and, and, and you know, I don't know if you saw this movie, but it was Creed, with the first Creed, with Michael W Jordan, I think, his middle name Michael J Jordan, anyway, he played. He played Creed. What's his, what's his? Yeah, michael B Jordan, Michael. 34:33 - Speaker 4 B Jordan. I knew it was somewhere in there. See those, those two brain cells man. Every now and then they collapse, anyway. 34:38 - Speaker 1 So, rocky, you know the had him look in the mirror and he says you know what? The guy that you see right in the mirror, you know that is your biggest opponent, that's your biggest. Yeah, you know so what do? 34:50 you do if, if, if, if you jab, you know you get out of the way. Okay, so you either duck, move or get out of the way. So my point is is that my biggest enemy is not out there. My biggest enemy is the one that tells me that I'm you know, then that's believable. That, dude, come on seriously. Are you thinking really you can really run a crisis pregnancy center, you being a black man in Reno, nevada? Come on, bro, seriously, run a crisis pregnancy center. Come on, dude, seriously. 35:17 - Speaker 3 I mean, you know yes, yes, yes, yes, but. 35:21 - Speaker 1 But the reality is of those things coming to my brain and they come into my, my, my soul. And if I don't combat that, if I don't declare who he says, that I am openly, with my mouth open, and declare his words over me because they have life, their power, then you know I'll succumb to those lies and I'll be the first to tell you that I would. If I don't, if I hadn't made a practice of declaring the truth and memorizing scripture. You know, pulling that bad boy out when you got to slice some stuff up, that's telling you that you are the worst you have to declare it. 35:54 - Speaker 2 You know. So you know. My father, dr Ed Cole, began Christian man's network and brave men, the podcasts we're on right now is a production of the Christian man's network and he started in 1977, he had had been in ministry to men starting in the early 60s actually mid 60s, 60s, three, 64 with a particular denomination and then in 1977 began Christian man's network, which now is over 100 countries around the world. But you traveled with Dr Cole, with my father, in the 80s, sometime right 90s yeah, it was like late 90s, late 90s, yeah, late 90s. And what was, what was it that you, what was it that began to be rehearsed in you, that began to help shift? Can you talk about mentors in your life? 36:41 - Speaker 1 You know, paul, you said something. I guess I forget which city we were in, but you said something. You said that you know fathers have the ability to, to to reach inside a man's chest, take it out and show him his future. 36:59 - Speaker 2 To reach into the next generation yeah, say that. You know the role of a father reaching the next generation. Pull out their future and show it to them. 37:06 - Speaker 1 That's exactly what happened. Yeah, precisely what your pops did to me. He you know where I was, a associate pastor at the church in Reno, nevada relatively large church, yeah and he came to men's summit and afterwards we had an opportunity to talk to men's leaders and that kind of stuff. And he looks at me and you know he takes that double look. I'm going okay, what did I do wrong? And he takes that finger dude, takes that finger. Yeah, young man, you need to come to Africa with me. Excuse me, no, you need to come to Africa with me. Yeah, something that you need to be a part of. I said, uh, okay, well, I'm leaving. And he tells me give me, give me, give me the dates. 37:50 - Speaker 4 And he says I'm not paying for it, you raise the funds out, but you need to go, but you need to go, and we did it. 37:57 - Speaker 1 And for for two weeks, yeah, we we did four nations and I talked to hundreds of thousands of men in that those four nations and in that process of time had an opportunity to kind of sit down and talk with him and he just began to to share things and declare things. And that was the main crucial moment in my life that shifted from okay, you're a passion, that's great, you're awesome, but no, you're called to change nations. Man. 38:28 You're called to change generations, brother, and it was those words coming from someone that, and at that time, honestly it was, you know, I saw him as, I saw him as Mufasa and I'm, and I'm Simba, you know, and speaking over you, you know. 38:44 - Speaker 4 and then, after that, you take it, yeah, yeah, yeah, honestly yeah. 38:48 - Speaker 1 Honestly and those same things, you know, we're able to pronounce over literally thousands of men over the last 10, 10, 15 years. 38:56 - Speaker 2 And you've taken many of those things and, like you said, spoken them over other men, over their lives, because in heading up a crisis pregnancy center, which you and your wife Joy did for a decade and a half, rena Nevada had to be some pretty rough moments, some pretty rough stories Big time. But you would have spoken as because when we think of that, we think of the ladies involved. You know the young ladies, yeah, and, but really who you had to deal with a lot was the young men, yeah, right, because part of the whole process tell me about this seems like part of the whole reason you're doing what you're doing, which is to say babies, basically was was because some guy was involved in a negative you know manner. Is that right? 39:45 You know most of the time not all the time, but most of the time. 39:49 - Speaker 1 Because what would happen is this guys would come in with their girlfriends and or significant other or wife who did not know what to do or needed some kind of help. Yeah. And and the decision basically they left to her. When, when we explain in full detail, dude, no, you understand, it's not her body, you know, you know, you became one and now it's your body. So you just can't say it's her body, she does what she wants to, right? You can't be done, don't just put it off. 40:16 Yeah, it was part of this, it was okay, when you were willing to be one with her in the beginning, but now that you have a life, all of a sudden, now it's her body. No, don't shuck responsibility, bro. Let's, let's go to work, right? 40:29 - Speaker 2 That's right when you want to have sex dude. It was like no, no, no, no, you know we're together here, it's us. It's us. 40:37 - Speaker 1 Now, when you have a baby? 40:38 - Speaker 2 No, I know it's you. Yeah, yeah, dude, that's so. Yeah, that's such a man, yeah, and. 40:44 - Speaker 1 But what was remarkable about it is that when we presented um assistance and help and telling them, no, no, you got this, trust me. And uh, it was. You know, some remarkable things took place. I got tons and tons of stories, but you know one guy in particular comes in and he's, you know, pretty popular guy. Uh, he's a extreme skater, extreme sports. 41:08 Yeah man and that same thing, you know. It's like I don't know man, I'm being traveling all over the place and this, this, this and uh, and so I really spoke real to him. Hey, bro, come on Seriously. 41:20 - Speaker 2 Okay, now wait a second, let's let's set this up. So these people walk into crisis pregnancy center and and your front desk people say you know, I would like you to meet the director, which, again, they're expecting, yeah, maybe an older lady. Yeah, and if you're just listening to, this auto is anything but an older lady. I mean, you were running back, uh, african-american, uh you but now you're here, like how much, like how your arms are as big as my thighs, bro. 41:56 You know and what I'm going to do is I'm going to get t-shirts that are smaller so I can look. 42:00 - Speaker 1 Well this is the biggest one, it's not what this is. 42:02 - Speaker 2 Like that beat this is the biggest one I had Come on, man. So anyway, they say, hey, you need to meet the head of the crisis pregnancy center to the guy and he thinks he's meeting, you know, an older lady. It's going to kind of be nice and gentle and maybe condemnatory. Yeah, right, yeah, he's waiting for the hammer to come down. Yeah, yeah, and well, it's what happened to this guy. He walks in and yeah. 42:31 - Speaker 1 And, uh, I think what had happened was he had heard, uh, bass in the room. He was expecting to see nothing, or hear nothing but estrogen, okay. But then he heard bass. He heard testosterone in the room, because I was meeting with another guy at the time, okay. And when he heard that bass, there was, like an instant, this camaraderie here. 42:55 I was thinking it was just gonna be all women, but I heard the bass, you know, and then so I hear him. I said hold on a second, let me go out and introduce myself. I said, I'm sorry, go out and introduce myself. 43:05 And the whole atmosphere changed, because now he has someone who he considers to be an authority figure or he considers to be a masculine figure in a place that he was considered it was gonna be nothing but that, yeah, and as a result of that, then the conversation ensues, Then we can talk about real issues, because now the guards are down and now he's not gonna be accused or be condemned, Now no, you got somebody who can recognize what you're going through and dealing with that, and because of that we had great conversations. And he's a father I think of two now. 43:38 - Speaker 2 So, but when people came in, or a lot of those people would have been abortion minded, is that how you say it? 43:46 - Speaker 1 I'd say maybe 40,. No, probably 50% would come in with termination on their mind. Yeah, and again, our heart was not to tell them what to do, but to present to them reality, the truth about everything, and not have some fictional stuff taking place. 44:02 No, we're telling the truth about what's going on and what this looks like and how we deal with individuals who have come back later, who have gone down the road of termination and, as a result of that, they're dealing with emotional issues. Even guys have guilt, but the issue wasn't to try to deter them. The issue was to present to them a loving atmosphere, to where it wasn't full of anxiety and fear and guilt written. It was just personified by the love of God, and that changed everything. I told them. I said okay, listen to me. They asked me if I'm pro-life. I said well, I think yeah. I guess in a traditional sense, you'd say that, but I think I'm pro-love more than anything else, Because pro-love will meet you where you're at and whatever decision you make, love is still there. Pro-love. 44:56 - Speaker 2 I love you, no matter what. Pro-love is not just about the birth. So a lot of people get this mistake that in fact, a lot of people who are pro-life quote unquote are really just pro-birth. I agree, I agree, but now you gotta live right, you've gotta have. There needs to be some kind of you know help for a lot of these people. 45:19 - Speaker 1 And I'm simply saying if you're pro-life, then how come you're not at the prisons when they get ready to put somebody to death? Come on, man, that's what I'm saying. If you're pro-life, be pro-life. I mean, and why do you like go against services that's gonna help mothers? You know that's gonna help mothers take care of their kids. Why are you voting against those services? 45:40 - Speaker 2 Moms and single dads and single dads. I mean we have, oh, we have so many single dads now, Tons of them. 45:46 So, how can you vote against those services and at the same time vote against abortion, right? Yeah, that's what I'm saying and that's a big fight in our culture. You know how much did because you had this whole the Christ's Pregnancy Center. Your sons are born, you and your wife you've done ministry stuff and then the whole it's always been there systemic racialism. You know racism, but how did this whole George Floyd thing kind of filter into everything you were doing, trying to minister to people? 46:20 - Speaker 1 Well, I think for us it's the reality of there is systemic stuff that goes on, and then not denying it but confronting it. And then for us it was confronting it with not accusing, but confronting it with okay, it's real, and then responding to it individually Instead of like trying to have a blanket response. 46:48 Yeah, putting everybody in the same place, each individual had a different approach and a different response to things, and so dealing with the person as an individual and not just a group, it just it helped us a lot. And then, when we saw, because we deal with a lot of young men and families that no longer want to have anything to do with the church, because here was an opportunity for the church to stand up and do some things in regard to, like, racial discrimination and do things along those lines, when they remain silent. 47:21 When everybody else was loud. You very rarely heard anything from the church talking about and confronting and dealing with it from a standpoint of love, and I saw a lot of people again in this particular topic and subject have to they step back and go. Okay, I have to review my commitment to an institution that when the opportunity came for us to step up and do something regarding a historical thing that's taking place in our country and the church is silent, it caused a lot of people to just go. I'm done with this man. 47:55 - Speaker 2 I think we all I think all of us, no matter even regionally or ethnically or what we all have biases, right, we all have little things. And there's a lot of guys Anglo guys like me at my age that would hear, let's say, rap, music and go dude, yeah, it's all from the wrong place. And then you got a guy like Propaganda who comes along who's got this really redemptive rap. That's just remarkable lyrics, and you just go through that and you go okay, this is so. It's not the method, it's the message, and what we end up doing is we keep pounding on the method or the style or the you know whatever, and we can have so many biases on that. We have biases even within Christianity, of Christians who are all Christians, who don't do it the way each other does it, and those guys think those guys are wrong and we'll spend more time dealing with those guys we think their style's wrong than we do with helping people in our community. 49:07 - Speaker 1 And that, to me, that's the biggest thing If we can go, if we can focus in on again how Jesus did it. Yeah. 49:16 I mean seriously, if you. I mean he explains to the people about a Samaritan who you know, where religious leaders walk by somebody who is in pain, but the ones that you consider to be mixed and dogs, they're the ones that helped and then gave them an example of what true love is, and not some religious jargon. And I think that is the issue that we have to face man, so many times we're in our traditions and our traditions, like Jesus said, our traditions makes the word of God to no effect. So our traditions, we don't need that. I mean, we've seen from a standpoint what our traditions have birthed and a lot of it, a lot of them, they're wrong and we're right. And because they're wrong and we're right, we're going to make sure that they believe what we believe. If they don't believe what we believe, then they're going to hell. I do. You gotta come on and serve in love on people. 50:06 - Speaker 2 And I'm gonna go on Instagram and say something about it. 50:10 - Speaker 1 But see, that's, that's I know we can, you know, go on for this. But see, that's what changed things with the CPC that we ran Because, yeah, we're pro-life, but more than that, we're pro-love, and because of that, we would have young ladies who have gone and families that have gone down the road of termination came and visited us and, you know, didn't you know, came and visited us and went down the road of termination. I want you to hear this though yeah, broke our hearts and hurts us, but then five, six months later, have a young lady come back seeking services and we would ask her. My wife asked her. She says well, what are you doing back here, honey, you know? And make a long story short. She said because you guys didn't make me feel like I was going to hell. 50:58 - Speaker 2 Wow, because you guys loved on me even though Even though she terminated pregnancy, she still came back. She came back, said you know what? Yeah, I want to walk this way. And did she become a follower of Christ or not? We don't know. We don't know. 51:15 - Speaker 1 But what I loved about that is that she saw him through us. Yeah, and as a result of that, I know she's never the same. Now, a few of them, did you know, turn the odds over. 51:25 - Speaker 2 What happened with the guy, the extreme guy, extreme sports guy? 51:28 - Speaker 1 Oh man, he's actually doing well. Matter of fact, I texted him. Did you? Really. Yeah, I went from a response from him. Actually, he's doing awesome. He's doing awesome. I think he just retired. I think they're getting ready to have another baby. 51:43 - Speaker 2 He did movies all over the world. Yeah, he was all the extreme stuff. He was all over the world. But at the time when he showed up he was in the middle of all kinds of chaos. 51:53 - Speaker 1 He was freaking out. Yeah, he was freaking out Again. She lived in Europe and he didn't know what to do. 52:00 - Speaker 2 And then this is right after-. How are we going to do this? What's going to? 52:02 - Speaker 1 happen, and this was right before COVID, and so he was basically in Europe with her on lockdown and they made it work. 52:13 - Speaker 2 How much of abortion-minded people and people who want to terminate pregnancy. How much of that is because what we hear, what I hear in the news from a person that would be biased for abortion, they'll always give me the example of somebody who has a medical issue. Yeah, we shouldn't push this away. We should have it open, because look at this medical issue. How many of those the abortion-minded actually had a medical issue and how many were just in confusion From what we how many you? 52:44 - Speaker 1 know what I'm saying. Yeah, from what the stats that we researched is like, less than 2% were incest or rape or medical that had abortions. Those are examples that were used so that you can justify it. 52:59 - Speaker 2 Yeah it's a straw man argument, yeah, so then you're able to justify the rest of it, because we find something to justify our arguments Right. It's just like taking scripture and twisting it, or if you will just taking part of it out and saying, see that they believe this, that's why they're wrong, or we use it to justify our position. So 98% of the people that you worked with at the Crisys Pregnancy Center, cpc, would have some sort of chaos, confusion. The man had left. How many guys, how many men, were connected to somebody, to a young lady who walked in? How many was there still? The man was still present. How about 30%? Only 30%. 53:42 - Speaker 1 Maybe I'd say at the stretch, maybe 40%. 53:45 - Speaker 2 Okay, so at least 50%, if not more. The man was gone, or he was a one night thing, or whatever. Mm-hmm Right, yeah, but man, that's a place for compassion for the church to work, isn't it Well? 54:00 - Speaker 1 yeah, without a doubt. Shoot and the things I would tell churches I'd say listen, man, you do not have to do any marketing. You have 98% people that are coming through the doors have no concept of the Lord. You do just volunteer, show up, don't try to preach out them, just be there, love on them and before you know it, they're gonna wanna go where you're at Because they're sensing and feeling something that they haven't felt before and they like it. Yeah, and if they would recognize again, if we can help people recognize that it's not you that's given that wonderful aroma out, it's the one that's in you that's doing it. 54:43 - Speaker 3 It's a-. 54:43 - Speaker 1 Yeah, when you're able to convey that to believers, then just just just be there. Sooner or later People are going to smell that and then what is it? What would do? And they will come up with the questions. But unfortunately, when it comes to people trying to evangelize, they've come up with these script and they have to fill in the box, and people can always tell when you're doing something to serve a God, to earn brownie points instead of like loving. 55:16 - Speaker 2 Your list, the list versus love, yeah. 55:19 - Speaker 1 And people can tell, yeah, they just can't date. Okay, you're just trying to earn points. 55:24 - Speaker 2 Most people have a pretty good BS in their career. 55:27 - Speaker 1 Especially if you're dealing with them. Streets, they're on the streets. On my man, they're on the streets. 55:30 - Speaker 2 Oh yeah, they know, man. They know immediately who they can walk up and talk to or who they can't. Yes sir, yes sir. Yeah. 55:39 People look at me and go, oh, I got an easy mark Cause I'm easily approachable. I think usually I end up giving people something to help them and they can tell I remember one guys he's asking me for funding and stuff and whatever. And finally I go you know what, bring your car over here and let's take it to the gas station and I will fill your car up Right Then give me the cash and you know what? I've had a couple of guys go no, no, no, no, no. Come up with different reasons, but I did have. I remember one time a guy he goes, yeah, I'm in man, and he filled his car up with gas and I thought, okay, probably a legit deal. And I mean for a guy to do that. Sometimes I'll look at it and go okay, that's not an easy thing to do To ask for some help on some things. So I have a lot more compassion on that stuff. 56:35 If somebody's on the side of the road, dude, I don't know their story, but I'm dropping some money in, pull some cash out. I leave tips. If I'm staying at a hotel, always leave a tip at the hotel. I don't know people's story, you know. I remember Kenneth Copeland one day talking about this and he said he was. He said this is back in the day, okay. So he went to a little cafe, got a piece of pie, a cup of coffee. It was a buck and a half. So you know it was back in the day. So it's a buck and a half. And he put down 50 cents for a tip and walks out and God says to him Kenneth, are you blessed? Yes, sir, I am. Are you very blessed? Yes, sir, I am. Have I blessed you to bless others? Yes, sir, why'd you leave that lady 50 cents? And he went back in and he put a $5 bill down and I never forgot that story because and so basically I could get a $3 or something. 57:35 They got that little tip thing that comes up on some of these places you go to man, I always hit the thing on the right and sometimes I look at him and go. You know, you only went to 22%. I'd have done a 25 if you'd have had it there. And because I don't know that person's story and I don't know what. And it's not like I have a lot of money, it's just I have a lot of love, right? Isn't that the it's like? It's like you're talking about people volunteering and you're heading up to CPC for 15 years and you didn't have a plethora of volunteers. It wasn't like people were just banging on the door. Okay, you had too many volunteers. 58:14 - Speaker 1 It was. You know, honestly, when I first started it was pretty low, but because again? You guys presented the vision, got a great atmosphere where you know the volunteers weren't, didn't see a black hole. 58:28 I volunteered and then I have to like just escape, but we'd monthly, on a monthly basis, we'd encourage them, we'd have an in source conferences or we'd just meet with them so, and I had an open door policy Anytime a volunteer had questions or anything they can come in and talk about. But you know, the thing that you know goes back to what you talked about. That's one of the things I think had changed the whole atmosphere of the CPC was that there was like a high degree of love and not we're not guilty or shaming people and not judging. 59:05 - Speaker 2 We're not gonna guilt or shame Now, because we judged ourselves anyway and that's why I'm saying that. I mean, I've been in one sense. 59:11 - Speaker 1 That's why these girls would come in and the inspams would come in. They're, like you know, freaking out because I don't know if I'm gonna be rejected as a result of having my baby or you know, and so and again, each case, each person, was dealt with from a case specific, that person's specific, and so we would hear their stories and respond accordingly. 59:34 - Speaker 2 You know you dealt with a lot of gang issues. What would be the reason a young man was in a gang? And how do you talk to a young man? How do you talk to a young man? It's caught up and you know, let's say even an alternative lifestyle, whether it's gangs or drugs or anything else. 59:52 - Speaker 1 I personally, I speak to who they are as opposed to who they aren't. In other words, well, explain that. Well, what I'm saying is is that you know. One of the things again I mentioned sometimes when I speak is that you know you're one in 400 million. 01:00:13 - Speaker 2 Okay, explain that, Okay well. 01:00:14 - Speaker 1 How love it. You know, in the intimacy setting, you know, after that happens, there's a 400 million sperm cells that hit that egg 400 million 400 million. 01:00:31 Yeah, and that's a conservative number, because the sperm count can reach up to 1.6 billion. Right, this is scientific. I mean, I'm not just speaking. So if you go look up what happens at the moment of conception number one look that up. Number two, look at the definition of a sperm count and just put that in definition of a sperm count and basically, each sperm cell has a unique chemistry, makeup, right? So it's not just like, okay, all sperm cells are the same, yeah, so they have a different makeup, right. So they swim down this canal, they get to the egg and now scientists have understood that there is a hormone that the mother excretes from her egg that points out to the one that she wants and actual and so that hormone then goes after that one. 01:01:30 Every other one would be rejected, so they don't make it through Right, so that one makes it in Right, and so then, at the moment of conception, there's this microscopic burst of light that takes place. Okay, science, you can see it. Microscopic burst of light that takes place. So for me, when I'm talking to someone, and instead of saying that God so loved the world, I just simply explain it from a scientific standpoint. Wow. 01:01:53 There's infinitely more people that could be alive that aren't. If there's been like seven, what 100 billion people that's been on the planet ever since yeah, ever since creation? That means that there's at least 100 billion people that haven't been created, but you are one in 400 million or a billion. 01:02:16 - Speaker 2 You can put it in Like that one. You're that one Right that God placed in that egg. Wow. 01:02:22 - Speaker 1 It's you, and so, for me, I don't try and convince them one way or the other. All I do is say this is how powerful and this, how wonderful you really are, to where all this stuff had to come together in order to produce you. So I don't know where you're called to be. All I know is let's find out together, bro. Let's deal with this together. 01:02:42 - Speaker 2 So you're coming back to identity again. 01:02:45 - Speaker 1 Definition, so I can do my best to try to tell them what I think they are. No, all I'm doing is convincing them. Hey, dude, this is how special you really freaking are. I mean to the point to where? So when I get individuals that feel as if this is their lifestyle, listen, I don't know. I don't know what you've been through, I don't know. All I know is that you are one in 400 million. At the most, you're one in like 100 billion when it comes to the evolution of our culture. It's crazy. Yeah, so that's what helps me. 01:03:21 - Speaker 2 And I was gonna mention it earlier, but we can go on YouTube. You're actually on YouTube with an 18 minute message from Lions Roar, which is our leadership conference with Christian Men's Network. You guys did that and I showed this, in which you did that whole piece of your wonderfully made God thought of you and God thought of you and pulled you into existence. You're one of a billion and you're one of God's precious thoughts and so and what was great about that is I showed that, I showed it a couple of times at men's conferences and I showed that recently in Arizona at a men's conference. And as they watch the video, guys are going amen, amen and then you go. You said something funny. Everybody laughed and there was a place to clap, everybody clap. And then, at the end of watching the video, you said, hey, let's stand up. I'm gonna pray this over you. Everybody started standing up. It was awesome man, it was really Otto. 01:04:13 That was powerful man and you'll be at every Lions Roar sharing things like that and doing the Global Fatherhood Initiative, dadacademycom fired up about that, about what's coming and this message. I mean just this. What we're doing right now and we've just kind of hit sort of the edges, if you will, it's kind of like Proverbs. The description or Job, Job in Job it's a Proverbs Job, excuse me is the description of God where he says what we see is just the edges, just the fringes of his greatness. Sometimes in conversations like this, I feel like we've just hit the fringes of the greatness of Christ. We've just hit the little edges of what he is in my life and what he is in your life and what that's meant in your marriage, right, and what that's meant as a dad. And I think about you speaking into the womb of as joy was with child and speaking over your sons and then, dude, I have never. We've known each other for years. I have never heard that story. Was it a dominant? 01:05:24 - Speaker 1 Yeah, a dominant. 01:05:24 - Speaker 2 Yeah, a dominant, and you saying son, and he's just been born and he knows your voice. Yes, sir, there's something there for all of us, as men, as dads, and also those of us who are still wondering about following Christ. Because this experience of following Christ, what you found is a young man when you said God, are you there? A senior year of high school right? Yes, sir, you found out that God was there. 01:05:55 - Speaker 1 And things weren't going bad at the time. I'm getting scholarship offers all over the place, but what really got me is that my sister, we were really, really tight and it happened to her. And the first day she comes, just like Andrew did with Peter, and you've got to come see this man, this is crazy, Right. 01:06:15 And she told me. And I said, really, yeah. And so the next day is when I asked him, and he did that. I guess my point in saying all that is that THIS, this God, is real man, I mean, I'm talking real knows more about you than you can ever know about yourself. This God actually imagined you before you were born, thought about you and consistently thinks about you all the time where David caught it. When David caught it, this what blows me away? 01:06:44 David said all your thoughts toward me are precious. Why to count them? They don't remember the grains of sand. So if all God's thoughts toward us are precious, then he cannot think a bad thought about us. We may think a bad thought about ourselves and try to have God endorse it, but he thinks nothing but good things about us. And once that became because I kept pronouncing that, Paul, I kept pronouncing that, knowing some of the things that people thought about people who look like me or whatever, I'd have to pronounce that all the time. 01:07:15 God, all your thoughts toward me are precious. Wait, hold up. God, you imagined me before I was born. I'm still in your head, God, right now. Right now, I'm in your head. It's so good and so for me, it's like you can't tell me that I'm not uniquely handcrafted by God for the sole purpose of being an extension of his goodness on this planet. And that's why I tell every person I talk to dude, I know you think that you're just something, but no, you're so uniquely handcrafted by God that you have a way that you can approach him in a way that nobody else can but you, and he made sure that that happened. And when we know that we have that type of like relationship with him, when we know that it's him that initiated everything, that we are not bumbling around trying to find, no, he made sure we're here so that he can, so that you can have a unique path to his heart and stimulate him in a way that nobody else can but you. He made you for that purpose. 01:08:06 - Speaker 2 Your life has purpose. Oh my gosh. Yeah, why don't we do this? We don't always do this. I'd like you to pray over some of us that are listening right now and pray over this moment, because that really was an anointed thing right there, otto, and why don't we just do that? And then I'll do a little wrap up, and but you know, if we're, I think most of us at some point would do what you did in your senior year of high school. God, if you're real need to hear something, yeah let's pray for some guys right now. 01:08:39 - Speaker 1 Well, father, we come before you and we acknowledge you as awesome. You're just awesome, dad. I'm telling you you just, we just are just enamored by your goodness and we thank you for this opportunity just to speak and just to be a part of your extension on this planet. And, father, I know that, as Brother Paul and I were talking, that you spoke through us and men heard, people heard, and so that area, lord, that's in their heart that you're speaking to right now, pray you'd amplify it, that area that you're speaking to them regarding who they are, their identity, I pray you do a masterful job of revealing to them how precious they really are to you, how much purpose they have on their lives. 01:09:21 Yes, Lord and Father, I pray that even now, god, that you would just continue to amplify that truth, that you have a, you have love for us, that you're willing to sacrifice heaven in order to have us be back in our right relationship with you, jesus dying on that cross, becoming the nucleus of all that's unholy on the cross, so that we can have life and be re-injected into our original DNA. So, god, we thank you for that, and so I just pray for brothers. 01:09:50 I pray for brothers whoever's listening that you would do a work, and even brothers who have like just backed off because they just don't sense you. 01:09:59 I'm praying that you would do a supernatural work in their heart and in their mind to let them know that you have protected them, that you have provided protection for them, so that they can hear a word like this, to know that they have been uniquely handcrafted by you for the purpose of being an extension of your goodness. On this planet. There are things that they can do that no one else can do but them, and so, god, I pray that you would do a work, a mighty work, even now, and just seal this. You've said something, dad. You've said something that has resonated in the hearts of men. I just pray you to amplify it and reveal to them, god, your ceaseless, unyielding love for them. 01:10:43 God, we thank you, we praise you hey man. 01:10:48 - Speaker 2 Hey, thank you for listening to Brave Men podcast. Otto Kelly has been my guest, vice president of Global Fatherhood Initiative and a director and founder of Sons to Men of Ministry, and you should have him come speak at your conference, your summit. You've got a website. What's the website? It's called Dad E Academy, but it's gonna be a change Dad E Academy is gonna change. 01:11:12 - Speaker 1 It's gonna change to Sons, to Men. 01:11:13 - Speaker 2 Sons to Men and look up Otto Kelly minister and you'll find that. And then when we get our new website linked up, it'll be on the cmnmen. Click on that or you can write to us as cmnmen. Write to me at paulatcmnmen and you'll get a hold of me there. But it would be great for you to have Otto as a speaker at your conference to church, wherever it may be. He does a fantastic job. 01:11:38 - Speaker 1 He's a lot better speaking than he is me asking him questions and I don't know about all that, but hey, I'll take your affirmation, my brother. 01:11:47 - Speaker 2 No, that was awesome. It was just. I'll tell you what. We could probably talk for another hour to cover many other men's issues, and what we'll do is we'll do that over time, Okay, but you have such a grasp of it and you've been, if you will, on the ground right With men and you just have a way that is disarming to men you just really have. You're really a blessing to me and to this ministry and to the men who know you, and so we pray for you and joy that your footsteps are blessed. Everything you put your hands to will prosper. Thank you, brother, and that Jesus is with you with favor and grace in the years ahead. I love being your friend, bro. 01:12:29 - Speaker 1 Hey brother, hey love you, man, Telling you Never forget that call in 2011. Dude, what are you doing? I'm in Portland, let's go. I'm in. It's like you know. It's like stop shoot, aim, yeah, yeah. 01:12:43 - Speaker 3 I'm in Stop. 01:12:44 - Speaker 1 Let's go. 01:12:44 - Speaker 2 All right, that was awesome. Love you, man. 01:12:48 - Speaker 3 Always a blessing, thank you. Brave Men is a production of Christian Men's Network, a global movement of men committed to passionately following Jesus on the ground in over 100 nations worldwide. You can receive the Brave Men motivational email, find books and resources for discipleship and parenting at cmnmen. That's cmnmen. Your host has been Paul Cole, president of Christian Men's Network, and if you haven't yet, please make sure you subscribe to the Brave Men podcast wherever you're finding podcasts or downloaded. Thanks for hanging with us today. We'll see you next time on Brave Men.