May 23, 2024
This is Courage; Inside Iran’s Underground Church w/David Yeghnazar
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From our first day of ministry in the Middle East, we were struck by the vibrant faith of the underground church leaders, their stories a testament to the power of perseverance in the face of adversity. This episode pulls back the curtain on the remarkable expansion of Christianity in Iran, a land where faith comes at a high cost, following Jesus Christ a choice often made not just with your words, but possibly with your life.
Our special guest, David Yeghnazar from Elam Ministries, shares with us not just the history woven into his family's faith journey but also the broader narrative of Iran's church, rising like a phoenix from the ashes of the Islamic revolution. This will encourage you and also compel you to greater works - to get things done where we live, while our brothers in other nations stay the course for Christ. These stories of resilience and discipleship are fuel for our mission, reminding us that the true measure of a man's faith is not found in serenity, but in the crucible of trials.
David and Paul also talk about the new Christian Men’s Network thrust into Arabic nations. CMN is actively translating resources for discipling men into Farsi, Arabic, Russian, Ukrainian and other languages for the Middle East and Central Asian nations.
Brave Men is a production of the Christian Men’s Network. A global resource center for tools to disciple men. Currently in 50 languages. You can find us at CMN.men
(00:00) Suffering and Faith in Iran
(04:09) Iranian Church's Growth Amid Persecution
(16:57) Faithful Men Inspiring Global Impact
(23:05) Expanding the Church in Iran
(33:49) The Impact of the Gospel
00:00 - Suffering and Faith in Iran
04:09:00 - Iranian Church's Growth Amid Persecution
16:57:00 - Faithful Men Inspiring Global Impact
23:05:00 - Expanding the Church in Iran
33:49:00 - The Impact of the Gospel
00:00 - Speaker 1
One of the things I've learned is that when we believe that God is ultimately writing the story, that he's invited us into the story, that if we're ready to live into the story that he's writing, he can take our lives, he can take even the most broken part of our lives, the most difficult part of our lives, and the suffering, and make something beautiful out of it. Yeah, and that is how many of people, many of the believers in the around of lip lord okay, we trust you're writing the story and we will submit to that story because you can write a much more beautiful story than I can and even though and so suffering somehow has meaning in that story, because it's a story in bad sound.
00:53 - Speaker 2
Hey, this is Paul Louis Cole. You're listening to Brave Men. I'm fired up about this podcast and today, really a legacy from a legend, David Yeghnazar Really a legacy from a legend, David Yeghnazar, whose grandfather led Bible studies and prayer meetings in Iran, in Tehran, in the 50s. Many of the people that were in his Bible studies later became martyrs for Jesus Christ. You know, we celebrate these three young men in the book of Daniel and we talk about these, shadrach, meshach and Abednego, and these guys thrown in the fiery furnace and the fourth man in the furnace and all that. You know, when those million people hit the ground in that Middle Eastern sort of way that they bow, those three young men, standing pretty well, stood out. Question is, are you and I willing to stand out and stand up? Those three young men said no, we're not going to bow Nebuchadnezzar. If you know the story, he raised up this 90-foot-tall golden idol, said everybody's got to bow to it. They said we won't stand. God saved their lives and in the process, they and their friend Daniel became leaders in that nation.
02:06
Now, today I just got back from the Middle East In a meeting with people from the underground church. There are people right now who are suffering in prison for the faith in Jesus Christ, to be willing to speak up and to stand up. It's a remarkable thing. We met with hundreds and hundreds of men, men who are leaders in the local churches, some of them underground churches, some of them are licensed or some of them are in free countries. But all of them there's a little edge. I mean, when we left, you know a few of our team their wives were like oh are you sure? And because the State Department had just issued warnings about going into that area. But we went. We met with some of the most remarkable men, passionate, I mean, when they sang, they were loud, they were exuberant. Why? Because they're free, in a really difficult situation and you know. So, talking with David Yagnizar, the church in Iran is growing like crazy. Why and I said, why is that? And you'll hear it in the interview, in our conversation.
03:22
But it seems like Doug Stringer, who's on our board of Christian Men's Network, doug, who has Somebody Cares, talks about how persecution seems to pull out of men. I'm in or out, and when you're in you're going to be all the way in. There's no place to be kind of in the comfort—there is no comfortable middle when we're talking about the underground church, and part of our effort to go to the nations at risk is to resource and to train the underground church leaders on discipling men, and so our trip to the Middle East was highly successful. We raised up a lot of new leaders and we've got training going back in. I want us to remember that Christian Men's Network is a donor-based partner ministry and, as you're giving, as you're able to give, it allows us to send books, resources and materials to the men who need them. We just have our book Maximize Manhood in Arabic.
04:29
So I'm fired up about that and they were excited and I'm just now starting to post it on social media. And the reason we wait is because we don't want somebody to look at somebody in the crowd and say, oh, wait a minute, I know that guy or whatever the situation is, I know where they are and kind of show up. That's not a good thing, and so we're careful about those things in order to protect our brothers. In fact, there's some photos where we stood with men, prayed with men. Somebody took a photo, sent it to us and then we were told by someone else that don't post that. Don't show that to anybody. It would be extremely dangerous for that man in his neighborhood man.
05:16
Being with men like that just gets me juiced up because I'm like I want to be that. I don't want to be in the comfortable middle. We can't do that anymore. I want to be that. I don't want to be in the comfortable middle. We can't do that anymore. That's why we have Brave Men podcast. That's why I had the Brave Men email. Go to cmnmen. You get tools you need to disciple men, the resources to disciple your family, disciple men and take care of business. Stand up for Jesus Christ To be the man who others can depend on. Cmnmen, remember the Brave Men podcast.
05:50
When you go on wherever your provider is and you click like and then you click like yeah, I think it's good, don't click. I'm against it, don't do that. But if you click it's, you know I like it. Whatever five-star thing, whatever the deal is, you know do that and click subscribe and what happens is the algorithm puts us in front of more guys. So we all know how that works. Thank you for doing that. Thank you for being a part of Brave Men. David Yagnazar with Elam Ministries oh man, this thing is going to get you fired up. Thanks for being a part of Brave Men today. Here's my friend, david Yagnazar. So you were born in Iran.
06:36 - Speaker 1
So, yeah, I was born in Iran, my father's Iranian and my mother's British. My grandfather, my dad's dad, came to know the Lord in Iran in the 1930s. Wow, and so, yes, I was born there. My grandfather is I mean, he's passed away now. He lived until he was 99, but he really fell in love with the Lord and with my grandmother, who I never met. She passed away in the 60s, but they started a prayer meeting in their home. They met every day without fail for over four years in the 1950s in Tehran.
07:18
He was seeking the Lord and actually there's a story that all my dad's siblings there's three girls and three boys, and they all tell the story. He'd been praying all night, woke the whole family up at six in the morning one time and uh said if Jesus comes back today, are you ready? And they all, um, had just a powerful experience with God that day and they were praying for hours. And then they decided to start a prayer meeting in their home and open it up to the community. So a number of people came and were saved.
07:57
But in those meetings my grandfather felt like the Lord say open the doors of your house and let people come in, and you go out also and preach the gospel, and so that's really where that whole mission side came in, and out of that a number of different churches and ministries were born. People who went into ministry some who had later became martyrs actually came to know the Lord in those meetings and so, yeah, I've grown up with a great heritage there. So my grandfather was known in many ways lovingly known as Papa Seth. Really, he was like a modern church father. He was a father in the modern Iranian church. Wow, yeah, so I was born there and that's the family history.
08:43 - Speaker 2
Yeah, but that's an amazing thing. I mean you very quickly, David went right through this piece of oh yeah, and then some also became martyrs, Right? So there was an open era when your grandfather began to do prayer meetings in Tehran. So he was in Tehran. He was in Tehran, yeah, Capital of Iran. So now, then there became persecution. After that there was a period of openness, yeah, yeah, so yeah, there was in 1979, there was an Islamic revolution in Iran.
09:23 - Speaker 1
In 1979, there was an Islamic revolution in Iran and Ayatollah Khomeini which some of the listeners may recall depending on their age, but most people will have heard that name, but he basically led the revolution in Iran which got rid of 2,500 years of monarchy in Iran, established a hardline Islamic regime and he had been preaching his version of Islam throughout the 1960s and 70s in particular and preaching that Iran is at a crossroads. You've got to choose the glory of Islam or decadence from the West. And at that time, before the revolution, Iran was quite close with America, with the US, with the UK, and so people thought that they were choosing a great day for Islam in Iran and they were very hopeful for a greater future and for glorious days ahead. And, of course, before the revolution, there was greater freedoms in Iran. So there were churches, missionaries were there, the Anglicans had gone in the 1800s, 1900s, around the turn of the century, Presbyterians went.
10:38 - Speaker 2
So a long history of Christianity in Iran.
10:41 - Speaker 1
There was, but till 1979, very few Muslims had become Christians from a Muslim background. So there are only about 500 from a Muslim background in Iran in 1979.
10:54 - Speaker 2
So then Ayatollah Khomeini comes, establishes this hardline regime Shah of Iran is overthrown, the hostage crisis happens.
11:04 - Speaker 1
All of that happens at that time and that was. You know that went on. That's been movies made about that.
11:10 - Speaker 2
Yeah, that was insanity.
11:13 - Speaker 1
Yeah, but the people of Iran thought that this is going to be a greater day, but instead they have suffered. Instead of the glory of Islam, they've seen the true face of Islam, and Iranians became the most open people to the gospel. And so, um, all the missionaries were kicked out, right? But? And people thought, okay, can this tiny church survive? People thought, probably not, and this is what's key for us as as men, as leaders, as just followers of christ. There's so many times you come and you come to a moment where things look absolutely impossible for the church in iran. It looked absolutely impossible, right, and yet the opposite has happened it's become one of the fastest growing churches in the world.
11:59 - Speaker 2
Really, okay, wait a minute. So so 79 happens, a hostage crisis happens, yeah, all these different things go on. People. Now, all of a sudden, the church, followers of Christ, are now highly persecuted. Yeah, right, and essentially, khomeini and his ilk try to stamp out Christianity, and now but?
12:27 - Speaker 1
it's growing. So, yeah, the pressure comes on the church. Wow, there were a few church leaders who were martyred. Evangelism was banned. Pastors began to be spied on. The Bible Society was closed down Wow. And then, in the 1990s, more martyrs. But really, since 2000, it's been about arresting. I mean, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of Christians have been arrested for their faith. But somehow, in the midst of all that pain and persecution and suffering, the church has grown.
13:00
And you know, I've had this privilege of watching the story of Iran's church unfold in my lifetime and it really is a remarkable story. It has happened not all of a sudden, but over the years. You begin to see, oh, what, if so, is something happening? Is something happening? And it slowly builds up and you see god answering prayer and, um, it's. It's really a an incredible story of how god can work in the midst of pain, in the midst of suffering.
13:38
And and here's one thing I've learned is that, um, people often ask why has the, the church in Iran, grown so fast? And I think I would say a few things. Number one from a political point of view, from a spiritual point of view, the people of Iran were made ready by what Khomeini did. Their hearts were open, what Khomeini did. Their hearts were open. They were seeking truth and reality, and spiritual. They wanted to know the true God. At the same time, the church has been a courageous church and it's been a church that and it was a tiny church. But I remember growing up and meeting some of these people, even some who were later ready to give their lives, and they did for the Lord, but there was something in their faith that caused them to believe that the story wasn't over.
14:45
And for me, that has been such a formative thing in my own life that whenever you come up against challenges, difficulties, impossibilities, there's something in me that's been birthed that, okay, the story's not over. Persecution is not the end of the story. It's painful, but it's not the end of the story. God will have the last word.
15:06 - Speaker 2
God has the last word. Well, it's basically when John wrote the revelation of Jesus Christ, and he wrote it. It was, you know, it always is amazing to me. This is persecution. Right, here's John. He's been captured. They tried to kill him right as the stories go. Boiled in oil, skin became like baby skin. They pulled him out of go. Okay, we can't kill you, at least we'll put you on an island where you can't ever have any influence, ever again. And he writes the revelation of jesus christ. So you know, it's like it's like pressure magnifies persecution. In fact, in some of the best times, it seems like the church doesn't grow like it does under the persecuted times, does it David?
15:55 - Speaker 1
Yeah, I mean there's a certain kind of growth that happens, that is pure, that is, it is so raw but courageous and there's something so attractive about it that it somehow gathers momentum. But the thing that's interesting that example of John that you gave, and the same thing is true of Paul they had no idea that what they were writing from prison or from their suffering would have such an impact Right. What they were writing from prison or from their suffering would have such an impact, right. And that's why I think what I've loved in so many ways of seeing so many friends in their faithfulness. They don't necessarily recognize what their faithfulness will do, but they somehow just carry on doing it, trusting that God will do something with it. And it does go beyond what they think or imagine. Of course, paul had no idea that he was going to be basically discipling the whole church through his letters and we study them every week in church.
16:57 - Speaker 2
It's like the 21 Libyan martyrs when they stood for their faith and then had that horrific thing happen to them, stood for their faith and then had that horrific thing happen to them. You know those men. They didn't know that they would inspire millions of people. In fact, one of the men was a man they led to Christ in prison. He was from Ghana and so, but they weren't thinking of that. They were dealing with what was right in front of them and just knew, at this moment, this faith, who I am in, jesus Christ, is more important than life itself, because death, where is your sting? Right? I mean those men didn't know that they would. I mean, those men have inspired my life, right? So your friends and those friends of your grandfathers in particular, who went through these difficult times, and friends of your fathers um, it's not like they were going. Hey, hopefully this will be on Instagram someday.
17:56 - Speaker 1
Absolutely not, yeah, in fact, the people who are in prison often will think I'm forgotten. Nobody even knows. Do people even know that I'm here? Yeah, so they're not thinking that their story is going to be something that's going to inspire. In fact, I've spoken to people and said do you, do you recognize that you know your story has been shared and it's it's revived the faith of many people around the world.
18:23 - Speaker 2
They're saying, wow, that's true, wow, what are some of those stories like David who are some of those?
18:27 - Speaker 1
I mean some of them now have become well known, like Our friend, farshid Fatih was in prison for five years, from December 2010. And what's interesting here is that he had the choice to run away or he knew the police were at his house waiting for him. He actually was taking his daughter to school and he knew that the police were at his house and he had a choice to make. Could he run away, just escape the country, or go back and face whatever he was going to face. He actually dropped his daughter off, came out of the car, looked her in the eyes, said I might not see you soon again, but I love you.
19:21
And all of that goes back and then was arrested and spent five years in prison and you know people can look him up online, farshid, you can put a link to some of his stories. But he was there for five years almost a year for in solitary and then four years in the public section of the prison. But he loved the lord, he was faithful. He was known in in prison as the happiest man in prison really, and um, just because he had the joy of the lord, even though it was hard. He's not going to say that it was easy the whole time. But, um, you know, he knew. The point is he knew what was coming and there are times in our lives where we have that choice to make. I know I trust the Lord.
20:08 - Speaker 2
Yeah.
20:10 - Speaker 1
And I think that one of the things I've learned is that when we, when we, when we believe that God is ultimately writing the story that he's invited us into the story, that when we, you know, if we're ready to live into the story that he's writing, he can take some. He can take our lives. He can take even the most broken part of our lives, the most difficult part of our lives, and the suffering, and make something beautiful out of it, and that is how many of the believers in the Iran have lived. Lord, okay, we trust you're writing the story and we will submit to that story, because you can write a much more beautiful story than I can, and so suffering somehow has meaning in that story, because it's a story in God's hand.
21:06 - Speaker 2
Well, the way you say it, david, is so right. The way you said it is, god's writing. His story invited us into His story. So many of us, as men particularly, uh, we have this independent thing where we want to write our story right. And then, god, would you bless this story yeah you know, and and if we're writing our story frankly, there's no pain in it.
21:30 - Speaker 1
Yeah right and we get frustrated when. And we get frustrated when we write a few bad paragraphs and God doesn't come and bless it.
21:40 - Speaker 2
Hey David, you've been the executive director of Elam Ministries. Did your father start this? Did he start with your grandfather or your father?
21:51 - Speaker 1
So my father started Elam Ministries. It began in 1990 with a good and close friend, reza Roshan Zam zamir, who's been part of the deal for right from the beginning, and it's still.
22:01 - Speaker 2
They're both still involved yeah, yeah, and so now you're directing elam, and so what is the impact? What? What is it exactly that you do?
22:11 - Speaker 1
so elam started with a desire to train leaders. Okay, To you know, it started in 1990, just 11 or so years after the revolution. There were just beginning signs of the fact that something new was happening in Iran. So the thought was let's train more leaders for the country. And it was a crazy dream and there's a lot of guys out there listening that just think you have ideas and can God, and you just do something. And they started and the Lord is blessed.
22:49 - Speaker 2
It started with six students in our home.
22:51 - Speaker 1
You had six students in your home. That started the whole. I lost my bedroom for six months and then the rest is history when you look at what has happened. The government didn't want Iran, the church, to grow. They didn't want us. You couldn't start it in the UK because you couldn't start it in Iran. But now there are thousands of people who have been trained at different levels in discipleship, ministry, church planting, evangelism, pastoral work. So we've trained and we do a lot of training. So our mission statement is to strengthen and expand the church in the Iran region and beyond. We do it with training and beyond. We do it with training. And then you we equip people with the tools they need for ministry, and primarily that's the bible, uh, but then of course there's books and resources and all kinds of um materials that people need. But we translated the bible into modern persian in. We started in 1994, finished the translation in 2003.
24:00 - Speaker 2
Wow, that's a very good project In 1998,.
24:05 - Speaker 1
we finished the New Testament in 2003. And this is funny because we printed 10,000 copies at the time and I remember thinking at that time so what are we going to do with 10,000 copies of the New Testament? That's going to take 100 years to distribute. But then soon we had to print another 20,000 and then 50,000. The most recent order was for 250,000.
24:30 - Speaker 2
Oh, come on, man, you guys are printing 250,000 Bibles.
24:34 - Speaker 1
Well, these, are New Testaments, new Testaments, yeah, so it's been about three million New Testaments printed for Iran. David, that's fantastic. Well, the Lord, honestly, it's just amazing to see the story unfold, just to see the passion of Iranian Christians want to share. That's happened because Iranian Christians want to share the gospel with other people, and that's one of the primary ways they share it is just tell people I've met Jesus Christ. He's changed my life, here's a New.
25:02 - Speaker 2
Testament. You can read it. It's the Samaritan woman. Come meet a man.
25:07
Yeah exactly the woman at the well. It's a come meet a man and really you look at this man in Mark 5, the demon-possessed man, and that's telling of that story. And it says that Jesus told the man. He said don't follow me, because the guy says I want to follow you and the man says I want to follow you and Jesus says, no, don't follow me, go tell everybody what happened. And he goes, the tent cities, decapolis, and we find out from Josephus later that the Decapolis has this huge renewal. We know at least one of the disciples went there. But I'm sure that this man had a massive impact on those 10 cities and all he did, all he had was, you know, I was messed up. Now I'm clean. I was blind. Now I see I was in darkness. Now I've found the light and really for a lot of people in Iran it is I have found that thing that's brought me life.
26:15 - Speaker 1
That's 100%. Yeah, that's 100%, yeah, yeah, that's exactly what's happening. It's not overly complex, quite frankly.
26:23
It's people have met Jesus and they share their story and really one of the most exciting things, or most enjoyable things for me as I watch this unfold, is seeing the kinds of people that have come to know the Lord and how God uses them. So just a recent story is a man who was an evangelist went to another city, was sharing the gospel. He had a few New Testaments in his backpack. He had his phone in his backpack. Two guys on an alley attack him and they mug him and he basically says look, can I please have my phone? They say no. Anyway, he's begging for the phone and they say no. And they look through the bag and they take the books out. They don't know what they are and they're sort of throwing them away. And he says to these thieves, if I were you, I I wouldn't throw those away. Those are the most valuable things in the book in the bag. Um, this is in iran just a few months ago. And so they pick up the books that they've just thrown on the floor, take the bag, go off.
27:32
One of those guys reads the New Testament Wow, and he wants to know more. So he has the man's phone, so he puts it on, looks at the most recently dialed numbers, calls the person and just says do you know? I found this guy with this number? I found the phone. Yeah, found the phone. Found the phone. Can you connect me with him? I want to return it. So he contacts it. Long story short, wow, the thief calls the man he mugs. He said I read one of those books guy, has led him to christ and is discipling him to be a follower of jesus dude, that is the best story, man.
28:10 - Speaker 2
And so iran, the church is growing. God's doing things there, man. This is David. This is amazing man. What an amazing story.
28:22
So that's what Elam is doing is really getting the word out, getting the word into people's hearts, and you've done it over time. It reminds me of that quote, eugene Peterson's quote, which is long obedience in the same direction. Right, and I believe that's how things change. We pray for miracles, we pray for things. This is a miracle happening in this man's life, but that didn't happen overnight, because that man that was carrying those Bibles had his own journey, Absolutely, absolutely. And he had to grow in faith. And now he's carrying Bibles and he had to respond a faith, and now he's carrying Bibles and he had to respond a certain way to those men in Christ, so that all, if you look at all of that, that may have been years in the making, to that point Absolutely. And now here's a man who reads. You know we have a book called Maximize Manhood.
29:15
My father wrote many years ago what it is to be a real man and one of my favorite stories was there was a man in prison, he was incarcerated and he's walking by another man's cell and he sees the Maximize Manhood book in there and he thinks it's pornography or something. So he steals it. Steals it, he goes back to his cell, begins to read it. Uh, then goes, goes, calls a chaplain, says I'm reading something that's that somehow changed my life. What do I do with this? And the man leads him to christ, he moves to the faith section. Two years later he gets out, finds a group of church down in houston that uses our materials and and becomes aed man. And when I met him he just came up and told me this story. I'd never heard about it. Wonderful, I'd never heard about it. So I'm sure there are stories you haven't heard about David, of these, distribution of the New Testament and then training leaders. It's 2 Timothy 2, right, right.
30:15 - Speaker 1
And not just training, training leaders. One of the things that we've done a lot is really invest not just in leaders but in enabling every believer to get involved in the whole process of discipleship. So our vision, what one of our goals, I say, is that every new believer is discipled one-to-one and every believer is in a small group. So for the one-to-one thing, we've got a resource that we've created that has basically enabled Iranian Christians to start discipling a new believer, and so you've got thousands of new believers discipling new believers.
30:59
So it's not just down to the pastor, and one of the things that we've seen is how it's when somebody is a disciple maker and is investing in just one other person. It changes their life, and I would so encourage people to think about who. Can they, if they want to grow themselves, help somebody else?
31:20 - Speaker 2
grow, Help somebody else grow at the same time. That is, and that's the gospel, and that is the strength of the gospel, is that it's person to person, spirit to spirit. That is a powerful goal. If people want to get involved with you, they can go to elamcom, right. They can go to elamcom E. They can go to elamcom E-L-A-M dot com.
31:43 - Speaker 1
Now you must have been early on getting that one, david Right. We had a very good friend who's actually our IT director now I had no idea, he was probably about 22, 23 at the time, when he was in IT. At that time he said, hey, can I get elamcom for you? I said, sure, yeah, what is it? Yeah, he got elamcom back in 1999.
32:09 - Speaker 2
Oh, my goodness, it would cost you $5,000 to get it today, but what a blessing. So it's easy to find, and so friends of ours who are listening right now they can go, because this will tell you the story of Iranians coming to Christ. It'll talk about what David Yagnazar is doing in Iran. And then you said and that's so, it's elamcom, e-l-a-mcom, there's also a place that people can give. You've got a podcast so we can support what you do there. Yeah, I'm fired up about this man. And then also you've got Iran's story, what we do, all that. But you also said that Iran and beyond Right, so what's in your heart, what's happening, what's stirring?
32:56 - Speaker 1
So the idea there was that we want the church in Iran to be not just focused on Iran, but to be able to be a blessing to the world around them. First of all, they're neighboring countries, and so Iranians are reaching people surrounding them, and we're seeing that surrounding them and we're seeing that. So when an Iranian goes to an Afghan or goes to a Pakistani or somebody and says, hey, my name is Mohammed and I'm a Christian, let me tell you my story that people listen. And so Iran really is a strategic country, because if you reach Iran, you can really mobilize many, many people to be the natural missionaries in that part of the world.
33:39 - Speaker 2
Well, you're in Eastern Europe, You're in the Middle East, because Iran is part of the Middle East, and so you're in that whole area. Plus, I mean, when we talk about Persian, you talk about the Persian language. It's Farsi. Right, persian and Farsi are the same thing. Yeah, so there are one million people in Los Angeles, california, who speak Farsi.
34:02 - Speaker 1
That's right.
34:03 - Speaker 2
Yeah, my daughter, who's a school teacher here in Fort Worth area, has two Farsi-speaking students in her class, and so this is something that you know. After 79, and because of the persecution, there's been a wide dispersion. So, turkey, london, different parts of the world, farsi speaking people. And so my encouragement to people, and you know, for all of us and we've translated Maximize Manhood into Farsi and excited about that and about what happens in the future. So, as you're able to use that, you know it's, it's yours to use.
34:42
That's why our partners and and we do these things and so, but that I mean to me, how do you solve the turmoil, chaos? You know, those who are looking for the 12th Ma'atai, for those who have this, you know, because the whole persecution has to do with where that religion goes, in other words, it has to be the shedding of blood. There has to be different things that happen. So when we're talking about, it's not necessarily out of hatred. It is evil, right but it's not necessarily out of hatred, it's out of a desire to see this thing in them come to pass.
35:30 - Speaker 1
It's their belief or conviction or what they've been taught. I think we don't know the motivations of people's hearts. Right, yeah, there's. There's definitely a strong desire to see what they they've been taught or they believe will come about?
35:50 - Speaker 2
Yeah, because when you, when you study it, it you know the whole thing and the breakup in the different sections of of Islam and so forth. It's fascinating history. And then you realize how you can be slightly off and then get way off. My father used to say a half-truth is a whole lie, because that's what it becomes. And so you've got this chaos and I look at it. What Elam's doing is solving the issue of a lot of the chaos that touches the entire world.
36:28 - Speaker 1
Well, I don't know if we're solving it, but what we're trying to do is do the one thing that we think we're called to do, the one thing that we think we're called to do. And the reality is that we, if we, uh, if, if you know the solution is not a political solution. You know, when you look at what's happening in the world, any part of the world right now, political solutions, you know they. That's why everybody's so stumped right. Then they have there, there's, there is no way to get out of this. And there's only one thing that we, as believers, that we're called to do, because when you do that, then people's lives are changed and you can change the culture. You can change, uh, that through the gospel.
37:17
Um, and that's what people are. That's what's exciting for the church in Iran. In fact, when you talk about the church in Iran, when you talk to the church in Iran, very little about politics comes up. They're not. You know, in the West we're much more concerned about voting for this one or that one, or this one or that one. At the heart of it there's this conviction that we must preach the gospel, and when people meet Jesus and that's what Jesus he modeled, it. Everything changes People from all kinds of backgrounds, Everything changes.
37:51 - Speaker 2
Yeah, so, yeah, that's it. I mean, and that's what comes back to me, David, when talking to you and our Iranian brothers and sisters is that we do get caught up. I live in the United States and we do get caught up in the political thing and it's easy to get caught up in it because we're concerned about the direction of the nation, concerned about our children and grandchildren and that. But at the core of it, when we look at the growth of the Iranian church and what's happening now through your ministry and others, what God's doing, it's not a political—it's not bound by politics. Right, the politics are not the inhibitor to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
38:41 - Speaker 1
The inhibitor is us not being free to share our faith and you know I was speaking to a group of leaders from inside the country recently and you know we all agreed that persecution is not the biggest threat to the church, even though it is a threat. When you look at acts, chapter 4, where peter and john um have just been arrested and basically told don't speak in that name anymore, um, and it's by the people who, just a few weeks ago sometimes we read that story forget how fresh, how close that is to fiction of jesus was. So the, the people who, just a few weeks ago, sometimes we read that story and forget how fresh, how close that is, the crucifixion of Jesus was. So the same people who were behind Jesus' crucifixion are the same people who threatened Peter and John. So it was a real threat. It wasn't, you know. Oh, I don't think they're serious. This was very serious.
39:35
But when you look at their prayer in Acts, chapter 4 and how they responded, first of all they say Sovereign Lord. They know that he is sovereign, he is the one who has the last word, he's the one writing the story and the story's about Him. Then they pray Enable your servants to speak boldly. In other words, in that moment they could have prayed a million different prayers Lord, change the government, change the system, make it easier, give us permission to do this. Instead, it was enable us to because why they knew the mission that they had been given and because they knew that the Lord is sovereign, they knew they could fulfill their mission. So, whether you're in America, you're in Eastern Europe, you're in the Middle East, as a Christian, the Lord is sovereign. He can make a way for you to fulfill the mission that you've given. And so they do. They expect him to work. Lord, work out in signs and wonders, do your work. But then they go and speak.
40:43 - Speaker 2
And then when you read the book of Acts, they speak and they speak and they speak. And the leaders look at them and say these are men who have been with Jesus. Right? It reminds me of the three friends of Daniel who they're thrown in a fiery furnace. And well, as they're being thrown in, the king says you do realize? You don't have to do this, you know you don't have to suffer, you could just bow down to the idol. There's no big deal. And he said, no, no, no, we're not going to do that. And he said but our God will save us. And then here's the phrase. I think the key phrase is but if not, right, but if not, we will not bow down and to me that's where the church in Iran has lived but if not, we will not bow. Yeah Well, it is, you know.
41:49
Again, for me it becomes overwhelming. I know that, david, you're teaching, you're training the Bible Institute. The things that you put your hands to are touching so many people. You know, I don't have the words to say how deeply felt I feel right now for the courage and boldness of our brothers and sisters in Christ, that moms and dads have to make decisions about who they are in Christ, that will affect their children. You know, I don't know day to day in each little city. You know, probably each state's a little different than Iran and so forth, but they face this thing and here we get upset if the air conditioning's not right on a Sunday, you know, in our church, and so I don't know. I just have a great admiration and love and respect for those men and women, david, that you work with.
42:42 - Speaker 1
Thank you, I would just jump in there, though, and say that the reality is they're suffering all over the world. Yeah, and Christians in Iran, they're not a different breed. They are in a certain situation and circumstance and they've made some choices. And, of course, not every story has got a glossy ending and a beautiful bow tie in it, but there are many, many very inspiring stories. But the fact is that all over the world, you meet people in great, great suffering and pain, and we all have those choices to make, and, though it may not be persecution, I just encourage people.
43:34
As you hear these types of stories, we always whenever I speak at a church or wherever we don't want people to think, oh, we can never be like that. They're just people and all it is is trusting the Lord in your circumstance and with that simple approach, that Lord, it's your story, you know, and I will submit to your story and I will bring glory your story, and I'll bring glory to you in that story as much as I can, and it's it's like you said right at the beginning it's not my story, it's your story, and trusting that he can make something beautiful out of it, whatever happens.
44:15 - Speaker 2
So good. Thank you, david. Thank you for being on Brave Men happens so good. Thank you, david. Thank you for being on Brave Men. One of the things that we say at the end of our podcast is hope is alive. Hope has a name. Hope's name is Jesus, amen. And talking to men like you, david, is what gives us hope for each one of us as men, because we can get easily covered up and they are real stressors and anxiety moments and things in life. But hearing these stories and meeting you, david, is what fills us with hope of you know. It is about Jesus and what you said about. He is sovereign Lord. He will complete the mission of the redemption of the earth. He will complete the mission of a redemption of the earth. Jesus comes back to a powerful, overcoming uh church, and so uh that therein lies our strength and our hope.
45:09 - Speaker 1
so thank you, david, for what you do with elam thank you and remember one thing I would say it's it's a powerful church, but it's also going to be a beautiful church and um, and the gospel is wonderful. Yeah, it is so worthwhile, and that's one thing. At the end, it's not just that it's powerful, that it's people have given their lives for this, because it's a wonderful gospel. It's good news, it really is, so live with that. Amen. Thanks, david. Thank you so much. God bless you.
45:49 - Speaker 3
Brave Men is a production of Christian Men's Network, a global movement of men committed to passionately following Jesus on the ground in over 100 nations worldwide. You can receive the Brave Men motivational email, find books and resources for discipleship and parenting at cmn.men. That's cmn.men. Your host has been Paul Lewis Cole, president of Christian Men's Network, and if you haven't yet, please make sure you subscribe to the Brave Men podcast wherever you find podcasts or download it. Thanks for hanging with us today. We'll see you next time on Brave Men.
One of the things I've learned is that when we believe that God is ultimately writing the story, that he's invited us into the story, that if we're ready to live into the story that he's writing, he can take our lives, he can take even the most broken part of our lives, the most difficult part of our lives, and the suffering, and make something beautiful out of it. Yeah, and that is how many of people, many of the believers in the around of lip lord okay, we trust you're writing the story and we will submit to that story because you can write a much more beautiful story than I can and even though and so suffering somehow has meaning in that story, because it's a story in bad sound.
00:53 - Speaker 2
Hey, this is Paul Louis Cole. You're listening to Brave Men. I'm fired up about this podcast and today, really a legacy from a legend, David Yeghnazar Really a legacy from a legend, David Yeghnazar, whose grandfather led Bible studies and prayer meetings in Iran, in Tehran, in the 50s. Many of the people that were in his Bible studies later became martyrs for Jesus Christ. You know, we celebrate these three young men in the book of Daniel and we talk about these, shadrach, meshach and Abednego, and these guys thrown in the fiery furnace and the fourth man in the furnace and all that. You know, when those million people hit the ground in that Middle Eastern sort of way that they bow, those three young men, standing pretty well, stood out. Question is, are you and I willing to stand out and stand up? Those three young men said no, we're not going to bow Nebuchadnezzar. If you know the story, he raised up this 90-foot-tall golden idol, said everybody's got to bow to it. They said we won't stand. God saved their lives and in the process, they and their friend Daniel became leaders in that nation.
02:06
Now, today I just got back from the Middle East In a meeting with people from the underground church. There are people right now who are suffering in prison for the faith in Jesus Christ, to be willing to speak up and to stand up. It's a remarkable thing. We met with hundreds and hundreds of men, men who are leaders in the local churches, some of them underground churches, some of them are licensed or some of them are in free countries. But all of them there's a little edge. I mean, when we left, you know a few of our team their wives were like oh are you sure? And because the State Department had just issued warnings about going into that area. But we went. We met with some of the most remarkable men, passionate, I mean, when they sang, they were loud, they were exuberant. Why? Because they're free, in a really difficult situation and you know. So, talking with David Yagnizar, the church in Iran is growing like crazy. Why and I said, why is that? And you'll hear it in the interview, in our conversation.
03:22
But it seems like Doug Stringer, who's on our board of Christian Men's Network, doug, who has Somebody Cares, talks about how persecution seems to pull out of men. I'm in or out, and when you're in you're going to be all the way in. There's no place to be kind of in the comfort—there is no comfortable middle when we're talking about the underground church, and part of our effort to go to the nations at risk is to resource and to train the underground church leaders on discipling men, and so our trip to the Middle East was highly successful. We raised up a lot of new leaders and we've got training going back in. I want us to remember that Christian Men's Network is a donor-based partner ministry and, as you're giving, as you're able to give, it allows us to send books, resources and materials to the men who need them. We just have our book Maximize Manhood in Arabic.
04:29
So I'm fired up about that and they were excited and I'm just now starting to post it on social media. And the reason we wait is because we don't want somebody to look at somebody in the crowd and say, oh, wait a minute, I know that guy or whatever the situation is, I know where they are and kind of show up. That's not a good thing, and so we're careful about those things in order to protect our brothers. In fact, there's some photos where we stood with men, prayed with men. Somebody took a photo, sent it to us and then we were told by someone else that don't post that. Don't show that to anybody. It would be extremely dangerous for that man in his neighborhood man.
05:16
Being with men like that just gets me juiced up because I'm like I want to be that. I don't want to be in the comfortable middle. We can't do that anymore. I want to be that. I don't want to be in the comfortable middle. We can't do that anymore. That's why we have Brave Men podcast. That's why I had the Brave Men email. Go to cmnmen. You get tools you need to disciple men, the resources to disciple your family, disciple men and take care of business. Stand up for Jesus Christ To be the man who others can depend on. Cmnmen, remember the Brave Men podcast.
05:50
When you go on wherever your provider is and you click like and then you click like yeah, I think it's good, don't click. I'm against it, don't do that. But if you click it's, you know I like it. Whatever five-star thing, whatever the deal is, you know do that and click subscribe and what happens is the algorithm puts us in front of more guys. So we all know how that works. Thank you for doing that. Thank you for being a part of Brave Men. David Yagnazar with Elam Ministries oh man, this thing is going to get you fired up. Thanks for being a part of Brave Men today. Here's my friend, david Yagnazar. So you were born in Iran.
06:36 - Speaker 1
So, yeah, I was born in Iran, my father's Iranian and my mother's British. My grandfather, my dad's dad, came to know the Lord in Iran in the 1930s. Wow, and so, yes, I was born there. My grandfather is I mean, he's passed away now. He lived until he was 99, but he really fell in love with the Lord and with my grandmother, who I never met. She passed away in the 60s, but they started a prayer meeting in their home. They met every day without fail for over four years in the 1950s in Tehran.
07:18
He was seeking the Lord and actually there's a story that all my dad's siblings there's three girls and three boys, and they all tell the story. He'd been praying all night, woke the whole family up at six in the morning one time and uh said if Jesus comes back today, are you ready? And they all, um, had just a powerful experience with God that day and they were praying for hours. And then they decided to start a prayer meeting in their home and open it up to the community. So a number of people came and were saved.
07:57
But in those meetings my grandfather felt like the Lord say open the doors of your house and let people come in, and you go out also and preach the gospel, and so that's really where that whole mission side came in, and out of that a number of different churches and ministries were born. People who went into ministry some who had later became martyrs actually came to know the Lord in those meetings and so, yeah, I've grown up with a great heritage there. So my grandfather was known in many ways lovingly known as Papa Seth. Really, he was like a modern church father. He was a father in the modern Iranian church. Wow, yeah, so I was born there and that's the family history.
08:43 - Speaker 2
Yeah, but that's an amazing thing. I mean you very quickly, David went right through this piece of oh yeah, and then some also became martyrs, Right? So there was an open era when your grandfather began to do prayer meetings in Tehran. So he was in Tehran. He was in Tehran, yeah, Capital of Iran. So now, then there became persecution. After that there was a period of openness, yeah, yeah, so yeah, there was in 1979, there was an Islamic revolution in Iran.
09:23 - Speaker 1
In 1979, there was an Islamic revolution in Iran and Ayatollah Khomeini which some of the listeners may recall depending on their age, but most people will have heard that name, but he basically led the revolution in Iran which got rid of 2,500 years of monarchy in Iran, established a hardline Islamic regime and he had been preaching his version of Islam throughout the 1960s and 70s in particular and preaching that Iran is at a crossroads. You've got to choose the glory of Islam or decadence from the West. And at that time, before the revolution, Iran was quite close with America, with the US, with the UK, and so people thought that they were choosing a great day for Islam in Iran and they were very hopeful for a greater future and for glorious days ahead. And, of course, before the revolution, there was greater freedoms in Iran. So there were churches, missionaries were there, the Anglicans had gone in the 1800s, 1900s, around the turn of the century, Presbyterians went.
10:38 - Speaker 2
So a long history of Christianity in Iran.
10:41 - Speaker 1
There was, but till 1979, very few Muslims had become Christians from a Muslim background. So there are only about 500 from a Muslim background in Iran in 1979.
10:54 - Speaker 2
So then Ayatollah Khomeini comes, establishes this hardline regime Shah of Iran is overthrown, the hostage crisis happens.
11:04 - Speaker 1
All of that happens at that time and that was. You know that went on. That's been movies made about that.
11:10 - Speaker 2
Yeah, that was insanity.
11:13 - Speaker 1
Yeah, but the people of Iran thought that this is going to be a greater day, but instead they have suffered. Instead of the glory of Islam, they've seen the true face of Islam, and Iranians became the most open people to the gospel. And so, um, all the missionaries were kicked out, right? But? And people thought, okay, can this tiny church survive? People thought, probably not, and this is what's key for us as as men, as leaders, as just followers of christ. There's so many times you come and you come to a moment where things look absolutely impossible for the church in iran. It looked absolutely impossible, right, and yet the opposite has happened it's become one of the fastest growing churches in the world.
11:59 - Speaker 2
Really, okay, wait a minute. So so 79 happens, a hostage crisis happens, yeah, all these different things go on. People. Now, all of a sudden, the church, followers of Christ, are now highly persecuted. Yeah, right, and essentially, khomeini and his ilk try to stamp out Christianity, and now but?
12:27 - Speaker 1
it's growing. So, yeah, the pressure comes on the church. Wow, there were a few church leaders who were martyred. Evangelism was banned. Pastors began to be spied on. The Bible Society was closed down Wow. And then, in the 1990s, more martyrs. But really, since 2000, it's been about arresting. I mean, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of Christians have been arrested for their faith. But somehow, in the midst of all that pain and persecution and suffering, the church has grown.
13:00
And you know, I've had this privilege of watching the story of Iran's church unfold in my lifetime and it really is a remarkable story. It has happened not all of a sudden, but over the years. You begin to see, oh, what, if so, is something happening? Is something happening? And it slowly builds up and you see god answering prayer and, um, it's. It's really a an incredible story of how god can work in the midst of pain, in the midst of suffering.
13:38
And and here's one thing I've learned is that, um, people often ask why has the, the church in Iran, grown so fast? And I think I would say a few things. Number one from a political point of view, from a spiritual point of view, the people of Iran were made ready by what Khomeini did. Their hearts were open, what Khomeini did. Their hearts were open. They were seeking truth and reality, and spiritual. They wanted to know the true God. At the same time, the church has been a courageous church and it's been a church that and it was a tiny church. But I remember growing up and meeting some of these people, even some who were later ready to give their lives, and they did for the Lord, but there was something in their faith that caused them to believe that the story wasn't over.
14:45
And for me, that has been such a formative thing in my own life that whenever you come up against challenges, difficulties, impossibilities, there's something in me that's been birthed that, okay, the story's not over. Persecution is not the end of the story. It's painful, but it's not the end of the story. God will have the last word.
15:06 - Speaker 2
God has the last word. Well, it's basically when John wrote the revelation of Jesus Christ, and he wrote it. It was, you know, it always is amazing to me. This is persecution. Right, here's John. He's been captured. They tried to kill him right as the stories go. Boiled in oil, skin became like baby skin. They pulled him out of go. Okay, we can't kill you, at least we'll put you on an island where you can't ever have any influence, ever again. And he writes the revelation of jesus christ. So you know, it's like it's like pressure magnifies persecution. In fact, in some of the best times, it seems like the church doesn't grow like it does under the persecuted times, does it David?
15:55 - Speaker 1
Yeah, I mean there's a certain kind of growth that happens, that is pure, that is, it is so raw but courageous and there's something so attractive about it that it somehow gathers momentum. But the thing that's interesting that example of John that you gave, and the same thing is true of Paul they had no idea that what they were writing from prison or from their suffering would have such an impact Right. What they were writing from prison or from their suffering would have such an impact, right. And that's why I think what I've loved in so many ways of seeing so many friends in their faithfulness. They don't necessarily recognize what their faithfulness will do, but they somehow just carry on doing it, trusting that God will do something with it. And it does go beyond what they think or imagine. Of course, paul had no idea that he was going to be basically discipling the whole church through his letters and we study them every week in church.
16:57 - Speaker 2
It's like the 21 Libyan martyrs when they stood for their faith and then had that horrific thing happen to them, stood for their faith and then had that horrific thing happen to them. You know those men. They didn't know that they would inspire millions of people. In fact, one of the men was a man they led to Christ in prison. He was from Ghana and so, but they weren't thinking of that. They were dealing with what was right in front of them and just knew, at this moment, this faith, who I am in, jesus Christ, is more important than life itself, because death, where is your sting? Right? I mean those men didn't know that they would. I mean, those men have inspired my life, right? So your friends and those friends of your grandfathers in particular, who went through these difficult times, and friends of your fathers um, it's not like they were going. Hey, hopefully this will be on Instagram someday.
17:56 - Speaker 1
Absolutely not, yeah, in fact, the people who are in prison often will think I'm forgotten. Nobody even knows. Do people even know that I'm here? Yeah, so they're not thinking that their story is going to be something that's going to inspire. In fact, I've spoken to people and said do you, do you recognize that you know your story has been shared and it's it's revived the faith of many people around the world.
18:23 - Speaker 2
They're saying, wow, that's true, wow, what are some of those stories like David who are some of those?
18:27 - Speaker 1
I mean some of them now have become well known, like Our friend, farshid Fatih was in prison for five years, from December 2010. And what's interesting here is that he had the choice to run away or he knew the police were at his house waiting for him. He actually was taking his daughter to school and he knew that the police were at his house and he had a choice to make. Could he run away, just escape the country, or go back and face whatever he was going to face. He actually dropped his daughter off, came out of the car, looked her in the eyes, said I might not see you soon again, but I love you.
19:21
And all of that goes back and then was arrested and spent five years in prison and you know people can look him up online, farshid, you can put a link to some of his stories. But he was there for five years almost a year for in solitary and then four years in the public section of the prison. But he loved the lord, he was faithful. He was known in in prison as the happiest man in prison really, and um, just because he had the joy of the lord, even though it was hard. He's not going to say that it was easy the whole time. But, um, you know, he knew. The point is he knew what was coming and there are times in our lives where we have that choice to make. I know I trust the Lord.
20:08 - Speaker 2
Yeah.
20:10 - Speaker 1
And I think that one of the things I've learned is that when we, when we, when we believe that God is ultimately writing the story that he's invited us into the story, that when we, you know, if we're ready to live into the story that he's writing, he can take some. He can take our lives. He can take even the most broken part of our lives, the most difficult part of our lives, and the suffering, and make something beautiful out of it, and that is how many of the believers in the Iran have lived. Lord, okay, we trust you're writing the story and we will submit to that story, because you can write a much more beautiful story than I can, and so suffering somehow has meaning in that story, because it's a story in God's hand.
21:06 - Speaker 2
Well, the way you say it, david, is so right. The way you said it is, god's writing. His story invited us into His story. So many of us, as men particularly, uh, we have this independent thing where we want to write our story right. And then, god, would you bless this story yeah you know, and and if we're writing our story frankly, there's no pain in it.
21:30 - Speaker 1
Yeah right and we get frustrated when. And we get frustrated when we write a few bad paragraphs and God doesn't come and bless it.
21:40 - Speaker 2
Hey David, you've been the executive director of Elam Ministries. Did your father start this? Did he start with your grandfather or your father?
21:51 - Speaker 1
So my father started Elam Ministries. It began in 1990 with a good and close friend, reza Roshan Zam zamir, who's been part of the deal for right from the beginning, and it's still.
22:01 - Speaker 2
They're both still involved yeah, yeah, and so now you're directing elam, and so what is the impact? What? What is it exactly that you do?
22:11 - Speaker 1
so elam started with a desire to train leaders. Okay, To you know, it started in 1990, just 11 or so years after the revolution. There were just beginning signs of the fact that something new was happening in Iran. So the thought was let's train more leaders for the country. And it was a crazy dream and there's a lot of guys out there listening that just think you have ideas and can God, and you just do something. And they started and the Lord is blessed.
22:49 - Speaker 2
It started with six students in our home.
22:51 - Speaker 1
You had six students in your home. That started the whole. I lost my bedroom for six months and then the rest is history when you look at what has happened. The government didn't want Iran, the church, to grow. They didn't want us. You couldn't start it in the UK because you couldn't start it in Iran. But now there are thousands of people who have been trained at different levels in discipleship, ministry, church planting, evangelism, pastoral work. So we've trained and we do a lot of training. So our mission statement is to strengthen and expand the church in the Iran region and beyond. We do it with training and beyond. We do it with training. And then you we equip people with the tools they need for ministry, and primarily that's the bible, uh, but then of course there's books and resources and all kinds of um materials that people need. But we translated the bible into modern persian in. We started in 1994, finished the translation in 2003.
24:00 - Speaker 2
Wow, that's a very good project In 1998,.
24:05 - Speaker 1
we finished the New Testament in 2003. And this is funny because we printed 10,000 copies at the time and I remember thinking at that time so what are we going to do with 10,000 copies of the New Testament? That's going to take 100 years to distribute. But then soon we had to print another 20,000 and then 50,000. The most recent order was for 250,000.
24:30 - Speaker 2
Oh, come on, man, you guys are printing 250,000 Bibles.
24:34 - Speaker 1
Well, these, are New Testaments, new Testaments, yeah, so it's been about three million New Testaments printed for Iran. David, that's fantastic. Well, the Lord, honestly, it's just amazing to see the story unfold, just to see the passion of Iranian Christians want to share. That's happened because Iranian Christians want to share the gospel with other people, and that's one of the primary ways they share it is just tell people I've met Jesus Christ. He's changed my life, here's a New.
25:02 - Speaker 2
Testament. You can read it. It's the Samaritan woman. Come meet a man.
25:07
Yeah exactly the woman at the well. It's a come meet a man and really you look at this man in Mark 5, the demon-possessed man, and that's telling of that story. And it says that Jesus told the man. He said don't follow me, because the guy says I want to follow you and the man says I want to follow you and Jesus says, no, don't follow me, go tell everybody what happened. And he goes, the tent cities, decapolis, and we find out from Josephus later that the Decapolis has this huge renewal. We know at least one of the disciples went there. But I'm sure that this man had a massive impact on those 10 cities and all he did, all he had was, you know, I was messed up. Now I'm clean. I was blind. Now I see I was in darkness. Now I've found the light and really for a lot of people in Iran it is I have found that thing that's brought me life.
26:15 - Speaker 1
That's 100%. Yeah, that's 100%, yeah, yeah, that's exactly what's happening. It's not overly complex, quite frankly.
26:23
It's people have met Jesus and they share their story and really one of the most exciting things, or most enjoyable things for me as I watch this unfold, is seeing the kinds of people that have come to know the Lord and how God uses them. So just a recent story is a man who was an evangelist went to another city, was sharing the gospel. He had a few New Testaments in his backpack. He had his phone in his backpack. Two guys on an alley attack him and they mug him and he basically says look, can I please have my phone? They say no. Anyway, he's begging for the phone and they say no. And they look through the bag and they take the books out. They don't know what they are and they're sort of throwing them away. And he says to these thieves, if I were you, I I wouldn't throw those away. Those are the most valuable things in the book in the bag. Um, this is in iran just a few months ago. And so they pick up the books that they've just thrown on the floor, take the bag, go off.
27:32
One of those guys reads the New Testament Wow, and he wants to know more. So he has the man's phone, so he puts it on, looks at the most recently dialed numbers, calls the person and just says do you know? I found this guy with this number? I found the phone. Yeah, found the phone. Found the phone. Can you connect me with him? I want to return it. So he contacts it. Long story short, wow, the thief calls the man he mugs. He said I read one of those books guy, has led him to christ and is discipling him to be a follower of jesus dude, that is the best story, man.
28:10 - Speaker 2
And so iran, the church is growing. God's doing things there, man. This is David. This is amazing man. What an amazing story.
28:22
So that's what Elam is doing is really getting the word out, getting the word into people's hearts, and you've done it over time. It reminds me of that quote, eugene Peterson's quote, which is long obedience in the same direction. Right, and I believe that's how things change. We pray for miracles, we pray for things. This is a miracle happening in this man's life, but that didn't happen overnight, because that man that was carrying those Bibles had his own journey, Absolutely, absolutely. And he had to grow in faith. And now he's carrying Bibles and he had to respond a faith, and now he's carrying Bibles and he had to respond a certain way to those men in Christ, so that all, if you look at all of that, that may have been years in the making, to that point Absolutely. And now here's a man who reads. You know we have a book called Maximize Manhood.
29:15
My father wrote many years ago what it is to be a real man and one of my favorite stories was there was a man in prison, he was incarcerated and he's walking by another man's cell and he sees the Maximize Manhood book in there and he thinks it's pornography or something. So he steals it. Steals it, he goes back to his cell, begins to read it. Uh, then goes, goes, calls a chaplain, says I'm reading something that's that somehow changed my life. What do I do with this? And the man leads him to christ, he moves to the faith section. Two years later he gets out, finds a group of church down in houston that uses our materials and and becomes aed man. And when I met him he just came up and told me this story. I'd never heard about it. Wonderful, I'd never heard about it. So I'm sure there are stories you haven't heard about David, of these, distribution of the New Testament and then training leaders. It's 2 Timothy 2, right, right.
30:15 - Speaker 1
And not just training, training leaders. One of the things that we've done a lot is really invest not just in leaders but in enabling every believer to get involved in the whole process of discipleship. So our vision, what one of our goals, I say, is that every new believer is discipled one-to-one and every believer is in a small group. So for the one-to-one thing, we've got a resource that we've created that has basically enabled Iranian Christians to start discipling a new believer, and so you've got thousands of new believers discipling new believers.
30:59
So it's not just down to the pastor, and one of the things that we've seen is how it's when somebody is a disciple maker and is investing in just one other person. It changes their life, and I would so encourage people to think about who. Can they, if they want to grow themselves, help somebody else?
31:20 - Speaker 2
grow, Help somebody else grow at the same time. That is, and that's the gospel, and that is the strength of the gospel, is that it's person to person, spirit to spirit. That is a powerful goal. If people want to get involved with you, they can go to elamcom, right. They can go to elamcom E. They can go to elamcom E-L-A-M dot com.
31:43 - Speaker 1
Now you must have been early on getting that one, david Right. We had a very good friend who's actually our IT director now I had no idea, he was probably about 22, 23 at the time, when he was in IT. At that time he said, hey, can I get elamcom for you? I said, sure, yeah, what is it? Yeah, he got elamcom back in 1999.
32:09 - Speaker 2
Oh, my goodness, it would cost you $5,000 to get it today, but what a blessing. So it's easy to find, and so friends of ours who are listening right now they can go, because this will tell you the story of Iranians coming to Christ. It'll talk about what David Yagnazar is doing in Iran. And then you said and that's so, it's elamcom, e-l-a-mcom, there's also a place that people can give. You've got a podcast so we can support what you do there. Yeah, I'm fired up about this man. And then also you've got Iran's story, what we do, all that. But you also said that Iran and beyond Right, so what's in your heart, what's happening, what's stirring?
32:56 - Speaker 1
So the idea there was that we want the church in Iran to be not just focused on Iran, but to be able to be a blessing to the world around them. First of all, they're neighboring countries, and so Iranians are reaching people surrounding them, and we're seeing that surrounding them and we're seeing that. So when an Iranian goes to an Afghan or goes to a Pakistani or somebody and says, hey, my name is Mohammed and I'm a Christian, let me tell you my story that people listen. And so Iran really is a strategic country, because if you reach Iran, you can really mobilize many, many people to be the natural missionaries in that part of the world.
33:39 - Speaker 2
Well, you're in Eastern Europe, You're in the Middle East, because Iran is part of the Middle East, and so you're in that whole area. Plus, I mean, when we talk about Persian, you talk about the Persian language. It's Farsi. Right, persian and Farsi are the same thing. Yeah, so there are one million people in Los Angeles, california, who speak Farsi.
34:02 - Speaker 1
That's right.
34:03 - Speaker 2
Yeah, my daughter, who's a school teacher here in Fort Worth area, has two Farsi-speaking students in her class, and so this is something that you know. After 79, and because of the persecution, there's been a wide dispersion. So, turkey, london, different parts of the world, farsi speaking people. And so my encouragement to people, and you know, for all of us and we've translated Maximize Manhood into Farsi and excited about that and about what happens in the future. So, as you're able to use that, you know it's, it's yours to use.
34:42
That's why our partners and and we do these things and so, but that I mean to me, how do you solve the turmoil, chaos? You know, those who are looking for the 12th Ma'atai, for those who have this, you know, because the whole persecution has to do with where that religion goes, in other words, it has to be the shedding of blood. There has to be different things that happen. So when we're talking about, it's not necessarily out of hatred. It is evil, right but it's not necessarily out of hatred, it's out of a desire to see this thing in them come to pass.
35:30 - Speaker 1
It's their belief or conviction or what they've been taught. I think we don't know the motivations of people's hearts. Right, yeah, there's. There's definitely a strong desire to see what they they've been taught or they believe will come about?
35:50 - Speaker 2
Yeah, because when you, when you study it, it you know the whole thing and the breakup in the different sections of of Islam and so forth. It's fascinating history. And then you realize how you can be slightly off and then get way off. My father used to say a half-truth is a whole lie, because that's what it becomes. And so you've got this chaos and I look at it. What Elam's doing is solving the issue of a lot of the chaos that touches the entire world.
36:28 - Speaker 1
Well, I don't know if we're solving it, but what we're trying to do is do the one thing that we think we're called to do, the one thing that we think we're called to do. And the reality is that we, if we, uh, if, if you know the solution is not a political solution. You know, when you look at what's happening in the world, any part of the world right now, political solutions, you know they. That's why everybody's so stumped right. Then they have there, there's, there is no way to get out of this. And there's only one thing that we, as believers, that we're called to do, because when you do that, then people's lives are changed and you can change the culture. You can change, uh, that through the gospel.
37:17
Um, and that's what people are. That's what's exciting for the church in Iran. In fact, when you talk about the church in Iran, when you talk to the church in Iran, very little about politics comes up. They're not. You know, in the West we're much more concerned about voting for this one or that one, or this one or that one. At the heart of it there's this conviction that we must preach the gospel, and when people meet Jesus and that's what Jesus he modeled, it. Everything changes People from all kinds of backgrounds, Everything changes.
37:51 - Speaker 2
Yeah, so, yeah, that's it. I mean, and that's what comes back to me, David, when talking to you and our Iranian brothers and sisters is that we do get caught up. I live in the United States and we do get caught up in the political thing and it's easy to get caught up in it because we're concerned about the direction of the nation, concerned about our children and grandchildren and that. But at the core of it, when we look at the growth of the Iranian church and what's happening now through your ministry and others, what God's doing, it's not a political—it's not bound by politics. Right, the politics are not the inhibitor to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
38:41 - Speaker 1
The inhibitor is us not being free to share our faith and you know I was speaking to a group of leaders from inside the country recently and you know we all agreed that persecution is not the biggest threat to the church, even though it is a threat. When you look at acts, chapter 4, where peter and john um have just been arrested and basically told don't speak in that name anymore, um, and it's by the people who, just a few weeks ago sometimes we read that story forget how fresh, how close that is to fiction of jesus was. So the, the people who, just a few weeks ago, sometimes we read that story and forget how fresh, how close that is, the crucifixion of Jesus was. So the same people who were behind Jesus' crucifixion are the same people who threatened Peter and John. So it was a real threat. It wasn't, you know. Oh, I don't think they're serious. This was very serious.
39:35
But when you look at their prayer in Acts, chapter 4 and how they responded, first of all they say Sovereign Lord. They know that he is sovereign, he is the one who has the last word, he's the one writing the story and the story's about Him. Then they pray Enable your servants to speak boldly. In other words, in that moment they could have prayed a million different prayers Lord, change the government, change the system, make it easier, give us permission to do this. Instead, it was enable us to because why they knew the mission that they had been given and because they knew that the Lord is sovereign, they knew they could fulfill their mission. So, whether you're in America, you're in Eastern Europe, you're in the Middle East, as a Christian, the Lord is sovereign. He can make a way for you to fulfill the mission that you've given. And so they do. They expect him to work. Lord, work out in signs and wonders, do your work. But then they go and speak.
40:43 - Speaker 2
And then when you read the book of Acts, they speak and they speak and they speak. And the leaders look at them and say these are men who have been with Jesus. Right? It reminds me of the three friends of Daniel who they're thrown in a fiery furnace. And well, as they're being thrown in, the king says you do realize? You don't have to do this, you know you don't have to suffer, you could just bow down to the idol. There's no big deal. And he said, no, no, no, we're not going to do that. And he said but our God will save us. And then here's the phrase. I think the key phrase is but if not, right, but if not, we will not bow down and to me that's where the church in Iran has lived but if not, we will not bow. Yeah Well, it is, you know.
41:49
Again, for me it becomes overwhelming. I know that, david, you're teaching, you're training the Bible Institute. The things that you put your hands to are touching so many people. You know, I don't have the words to say how deeply felt I feel right now for the courage and boldness of our brothers and sisters in Christ, that moms and dads have to make decisions about who they are in Christ, that will affect their children. You know, I don't know day to day in each little city. You know, probably each state's a little different than Iran and so forth, but they face this thing and here we get upset if the air conditioning's not right on a Sunday, you know, in our church, and so I don't know. I just have a great admiration and love and respect for those men and women, david, that you work with.
42:42 - Speaker 1
Thank you, I would just jump in there, though, and say that the reality is they're suffering all over the world. Yeah, and Christians in Iran, they're not a different breed. They are in a certain situation and circumstance and they've made some choices. And, of course, not every story has got a glossy ending and a beautiful bow tie in it, but there are many, many very inspiring stories. But the fact is that all over the world, you meet people in great, great suffering and pain, and we all have those choices to make, and, though it may not be persecution, I just encourage people.
43:34
As you hear these types of stories, we always whenever I speak at a church or wherever we don't want people to think, oh, we can never be like that. They're just people and all it is is trusting the Lord in your circumstance and with that simple approach, that Lord, it's your story, you know, and I will submit to your story and I will bring glory your story, and I'll bring glory to you in that story as much as I can, and it's it's like you said right at the beginning it's not my story, it's your story, and trusting that he can make something beautiful out of it, whatever happens.
44:15 - Speaker 2
So good. Thank you, david. Thank you for being on Brave Men happens so good. Thank you, david. Thank you for being on Brave Men. One of the things that we say at the end of our podcast is hope is alive. Hope has a name. Hope's name is Jesus, amen. And talking to men like you, david, is what gives us hope for each one of us as men, because we can get easily covered up and they are real stressors and anxiety moments and things in life. But hearing these stories and meeting you, david, is what fills us with hope of you know. It is about Jesus and what you said about. He is sovereign Lord. He will complete the mission of the redemption of the earth. He will complete the mission of a redemption of the earth. Jesus comes back to a powerful, overcoming uh church, and so uh that therein lies our strength and our hope.
45:09 - Speaker 1
so thank you, david, for what you do with elam thank you and remember one thing I would say it's it's a powerful church, but it's also going to be a beautiful church and um, and the gospel is wonderful. Yeah, it is so worthwhile, and that's one thing. At the end, it's not just that it's powerful, that it's people have given their lives for this, because it's a wonderful gospel. It's good news, it really is, so live with that. Amen. Thanks, david. Thank you so much. God bless you.
45:49 - Speaker 3
Brave Men is a production of Christian Men's Network, a global movement of men committed to passionately following Jesus on the ground in over 100 nations worldwide. You can receive the Brave Men motivational email, find books and resources for discipleship and parenting at cmn.men. That's cmn.men. Your host has been Paul Lewis Cole, president of Christian Men's Network, and if you haven't yet, please make sure you subscribe to the Brave Men podcast wherever you find podcasts or download it. Thanks for hanging with us today. We'll see you next time on Brave Men.
