Shaped by the Power of the Holy Spirit

00:03 - Speaker 1 sitting with my friend, Michael Bolton, talking about the power and anointing of the holy spirit and that outside of that, nothing changes. And you've seen it in your life. You're uh, you've been an educator, you've been a professor, you've been a pastor of a major, significant church. You've been uh, you're also a businessman. You've got a lot of things going on here John Maxwell, a coach, all these sorts of things right, and then the coalition of the apostolic leaders, ical. You're part of that with Dr John Kelly, and so you've got a background in all this. I wanted to have a discussion and conversation with you about this. Here's what Acts 2.17 says. Acts 2.17 says this, and, of course, it's Peter quoting Joel In the last days, God says I will pour out my spirit upon all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy. Young men will see visions. Old men will dream dreams. Now, to me, here's the key In the last days, and however you want to marker that, you know we're in something that must look like that. 01:08 - Speaker 2 Right. I think every generation needs to see themselves as living in the last days. Well, the book of Acts they did. 01:13 - Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a really good way to look at it. 01:14 - Speaker 2 Every generation should do that so in the last days. 01:16 - Speaker 1 What did God say? He said I'll pour out my spirit. We get so freaked out by the news and by all the negative things that are going on. God says I'll pour out my spirit in all flesh, sons and daughters prophesy. So now here's. I want to move into the power and anointing of the Holy Spirit, because outside of that I don't see how a man's heart changes. Right, you've seen it in your life, personally experienced it. Yeah, and what do you mean by that personal experience? 01:43 - Speaker 2 Well, I grew up in a church fellowship that didn't believe in the present day moving of the Holy Spirit. You add the Holy Spirit to the measure. You had the word of God on the inside of you and so when I became a believer, made a commitment to Christ at age 17,. I felt incredible infilling of the Holy Spirit, but there was no outward expression of it and even the idea of miracles was not normal. 02:09 It was like occasional, maybe if God deemed fit, but it's not normal, so don't expect it. And so you grow up in that a lot of word oriented, a lot of knowledge. Bible, college, university, seminary, graduate school education was highly valued, Develop your intellect, but no specific power of the Holy Spirit. And so I was just reflecting on this, coming up to this podcast this month, 40 years ago, celebrating 40th anniversary of ministry. 40 years Wow, I can hardly believe it. First 10 years of that, there, there was so you're older than you look. 02:47 - Speaker 1 Oh, is what we're saying? 02:48 - Speaker 2 yeah, yeah, a lot of miles we'll just, we'll just, yeah, we'll just leave it at that. But the whole idea was it started out strong and then it it just like the fire went out. Wow, you know it's it. It was like no new logs got put on the fire and it just slowly burned. And I remember the moment going, if the best days are behind me, so to speak, in the church, right Like you read the book of Acts, and that was exciting times. But today, well, we just kind of hold on until Jesus comes, and I go man, I was getting disillusioned in ministry went through a crisis. 03:22 Debbie and I go, man, I was getting disillusioned in ministry Went through a crisis, debbie and I, in our marriage, and we go. Something's got to change and here's the thing we reached out to a ministry, holy Spirit-driven ministry, and they sent us to this couple and they prayed for us and I received. I didn't believe in it. I received deliverance. Now that's a whole discussion. Can a Christian be possessed? No, can they be oppressed? 03:53 - Speaker 1 Well, yes, of course. 03:55 - Speaker 3 And I was. 03:56 - Speaker 2 And it was literally as if Debbie was watching this, going as they were praying for me. Wow, had my eyes closed. 04:03 - Speaker 3 Wow. 04:03 - Speaker 2 And she said something. Your countenance changed and I felt like chains and it was a religious spirit. It was a religious spirit that came off of me, which is marked by two things pride and judgment, and it was like it was gone and I go. Whatever I just experienced, I don't know what to do with it. I don't have a theological framework for it, but it is definitely of God, but that's what I want. But it was of God. 04:29 - Speaker 1 Yeah but, that's what I want, and then I came across Jack Deere's book Surprised by the Power of the Spirit, surprised by the Voice of God, surprised by the Holy. 04:35 - Speaker 2 Spirit. Yeah, and all of a sudden it was I am not moving forward without the full infilling of the Holy Spirit. So Debbie and I just went on a. We went on a journey. Wherever God is, wherever God is moving, even a hint of it, we're gonna be there and see what it is, try to receive it, learn something and embrace what God is doing, and so for the last 30 years, that has been a huge part of our life. 05:07 - Speaker 1 Wow so that kind of gives a context. Well, that's it, and that is the context. You know, I was looking at the New York Times last week in the Sunday opinion and of course it's interesting because it's an opinion in the New York Times. I don't know how everybody feels about that, but I do read the Times because they have some great reporting and it's interesting to give me a context of what's happening in culture. And the lead article in the opinion section Can we Solve the Boy Crisis? 05:39 Lonely, detached and isolated young men are adrift. So I open it up oh, this is great. Now the upside of that is that culture is seeing this. Everybody's saying, hey, we got a problem with young men, yep, and, and we know the root cause of that is a fatherless issue 100 and fathers that don't disciple their young men. We know that's the core. So what they came in with was stats and the first two quotes is where I started going. Okay, we'll see. I thought one quote was great it takes a village to raise a child, but some of the villagers need to be men. And I thought, well, there should be men, because how are you going to start a village in the first place? 06:22 - Speaker 2 So right, fair point. I don't think any more explanations needed, so then uh, but then their first two quotes. 06:28 - Speaker 1 One they quoted, uh, gavin newsom. Well, he's uh someone worth quoting. Yeah, there's somebody who's been trying to deal with the homeless issue for 18 years, doing the same thing over and over and it's grown probably tenfold. Yeah, and then the next quote was Governor Whitmer from Michigan. 06:48 - Speaker 2 Another good person to quote. And the next quote. 06:50 - Speaker 1 So bottom line is, when they go through this whole article and you think about the hundreds of thousands of people that read this, they had no solution for the heart of a young man. How do you change his heart? Every solution was how do you change his context or how do you change his hands. 07:12 - Speaker 2 I didn't. I didn't notice. They didn't quote jordan peterson there. 07:14 - Speaker 1 Yeah, they didn't quote jordan yeah, maybe that would have been maxwell. Yeah, maybe that would have been a good place to start. 07:19 - Speaker 2 Didn't quote somebody who knows what they're talking about exactly, didn't quote john Tyson, didn't quote Brandon Cole. 07:25 - Speaker 1 Come on, you know, the fact is— they didn't even quote. 07:27 Paul Cole, what the heck? The problem is that we all know there's a problem, we don't know what the solution is. So, essentially, it's like men running many different directions all at the same time, trying to figure out what the solution is and just going hey, look at, there's an issue and the and the fact is, when we come right back to the book of acts, what launched the book of acts, what launched the growth of the church, was the resurrection of Christ. And Jesus said I'm sending one who will lead and guide you into all truth, the holy spirit, yes. And then. And then peter says here's what Joel said. And this is happening now. Right now, he said in the last days, I'll pour out my spirit on all flesh, and the only thing that changes a man's hands is when his heart is changed Right. So we're dealing with these same issues. 08:19 So I'm looking at it, saying okay, if we're going to do ministry to men, at it, saying okay, if we're going to do ministry to men, it's important to have resources, books, framework podcasts, monday Night Men, cmnmen for tools and resources to disciple your son, disciple your family. But if you don't have the anointing and power of God, in that, all you're giving your son is a bunch of information, and it's sorta like giving a 14 year old young man trigonometry for three months Just figuring, oh, he's good now and all he did was learn how to get a C in it, and six months later he doesn't remember anything about it. Right? 09:03 - Speaker 2 Yeah, very true. 09:04 - Speaker 1 So now you run him through this list of stuff and we've got all these things. But until you lay hands on the young man and something happens internally, it's not going to change his footprints. 09:17 - Speaker 2 You know I raised three sons, so they're now. My oldest son is within. In the next how many months? Next seven months, he'll be 40. My firstborn son will be 40. Wow, in a couple of months like less than a year, that's a big change and I got so I raised three sons and I have four grandsons. Before I got a little granddaughter. Now that, of all the things I've done, her coming along has changed my life. 09:43 - Speaker 1 A little granddaughter, but that's a whole other story. 09:44 - Speaker 2 Yeah, but raising, I get men. 09:47 - Speaker 1 Yeah. 09:48 - Speaker 2 You know it was interesting in my own life. My dad didn't do a very good job. You know he was very detached. You know this is his motivational approach. I'm going to be hard on you and tell you what you can't do. So then you'll get mad enough to do the opposite and I go yeah, later on in life we had a conversation about that I go not a good strategy. 10:11 - Speaker 1 It's kind of like Dr Phil, how's that working for you? 10:13 - Speaker 2 Yeah, not a good strategy Because, well, that's the generation he grew up in, yeah, exactly. And so he just passed on what he knew and it was terrible. And so I had to go through all this garbage, you know, to jettison all this stuff. And God is gracious, listen what I judged in him. I had to forgive him, for Right, because we know the Bible's clear Whatever you judge will come back on you. And I found I remember the moment before I gave my life to Jesus. I'm talking three months before. I remember waking up. I was living away from home playing club hockey, so I was 16. Then I turned, just turned 17. I was playing with. Most guys were 19, 18, 19, 20, 21, so I was a. But I was, you know, grown up on the outside, not so much on the inside and I remember waking up. 10:59 I drank too much the night before got sick. My coach took a picture of me. You know Polaroid, you know and then it develops and I was barfing my guts out in a roaster pan. He took a picture of me when I looked up and I go. What I'm looking at is what I despised. 11:15 - Speaker 3 I saw my father. 11:17 - Speaker 2 And I go. This has got to change Like it was a life-changing moment and it was within three months. I gave my heart to the Lord and started a journey. 11:27 But here's the thing it was. I couldn't rely on my dad because he was in the midst of his own alcoholism at that point. But I found men. I wasn't going to look for it from women, all right, because, girl, you know, young women will tell, yeah, you're a man, which usually involves sex, right, that's about all it involves. But I needed a man to say to me you got to get your act together, yeah, and I'll show you, and I'll show you, and I'll show you how. Yeah, that was the key thing. And so there were a couple of key men in my life that's it, right there who just came along. But I sought them out because I knew what I needed. I don't know how I knew what I needed, I just knew that's what I needed. And I looked to those men and I looked to their life. How did they conduct themselves? What were their words? What was their habits in their life? How did they walk in the power of the Holy Spirit? 12:16 - Speaker 1 You knew what you needed, because it's built into us by the creation of God. 12:21 - Speaker 2 I think so. 12:22 - Speaker 1 The whole earth cries out for the Father. We're all looking for that affirmation. In fact, one of the key things when you talk about young ladies, you talk about marriage, one of the key things they're looking for is security, 100%. That's what a father provides, right? So we're looking for that father thing, excuse me. So so the the thing is, it's built into us to look for that right now. 12:49 - Speaker 2 We try now. Now, men often and you know that the men try to find lots of other ways to fill that, but they it doesn't have any substance. Right, it's like eating cotton candy there's no substance there's no substance. 13:00 - Speaker 1 I, I, uh, I read an article about john rockefeller I think it was john d rockefeller and somebody asked him. Reporters said how much money does it take, how much money do you need to live on? You know, how much money does it take to live okay to be? And he said well, just a little bit more than what I have, that's always the case, right. 13:20 I thought man to be happy just a little more, just a little bit more, and so that's that's the issue we live in like a dog I was- in uh, ethiopia, and I was doing a famine relief video in my career as a as a producer, television producer and documentary, and I was a guest in Addis Ababa, in the great cathedral there, and I remember I'll never forget this moment. I was a special guest. So I'm up on the high altar. You know it's an orthodox sort of situation. They've got the balustrade and all the different things around the altar and the guys walking around with the censer and the incense and the smoke and the fragrance and man. It was wild because all of a sudden it was like I felt the presence of God in the place. It was like. It was like man you know. 14:14 In other words, it didn't have to be the way I had grown up that the power of God and the anointing of the Holy Spirit actually meets us where we are, within our context. So it doesn't matter what language I'm speaking, it doesn't matter if I'm living in the bush, if I'm living, you know, somewhere on an island, if I'm living in the middle of a major city, in Detroit, God can meet me there. 14:40 - Speaker 2 Well, you think about, I thought about in my own life of ministry. So probably I would kind of divide it this way 25 years of pastoral ministry and teaching in a college and then 15 years of marketplace ministry adds up to 40. There's a bit bit of overlap, but it keeps the math simple. And I thought about in my, in my pastoral ministry season when, when things transitioned to be much like it was all of a sudden ministry got exciting, because now what we're doing is we're praying with anticipation, and that was a big part of it. It's not like God, I'm just going to sit back and wait for you to do. 15:19 - Speaker 1 Yeah, whatever's your will, you know which is which, and I looked at it in my life. 15:23 - Speaker 2 It was a bit of a lazy approach right because if scripture says ask and seek and knock, yeah, I need to be out there asking and seeking and knocking. 15:31 - Speaker 1 Yeah, Paul talks to timothy about being aggressive. 15:33 - Speaker 2 Stirred up man and so all of a sudden yeah, all of a sudden now moving into that stuff God, what are you doing? And a positive Holy Spirit expectation. God, I am believing that you're going to show up. I don't know what it's going to look like. Please give me discernment. You pray for discernment and understanding and wisdom, and God began to do things, and what we did is, I remember, so often giving room for the Holy Spirit. That was a big, big part of it. We don't often give room for the Holy Spirit to move in ways that probably. 16:04 - Speaker 1 What do you mean by that? Sorry, I cut you off on a statement there. 16:09 - Speaker 2 No, no, that's a great question. I'm just trying to think of not always having to script everything out. Okay, you know like in churches, as they get bigger, of course they have to script everything out. You know like, in churches, as they get bigger, of course they have to script everything out. You were a television producer. 16:21 - Speaker 1 We've all done that. 16:21 - Speaker 2 Everything had to be scripted out, but where is there room for the Holy? 16:26 - Speaker 1 Spirit yeah, it has to be, you gotta. There has to be that blank space, there has to be some space, there has to be that space in the script. 16:32 - Speaker 2 You know, sometimes the best conversations are not a continual dialogue. 16:36 It's kind of like yeah, let me just think about that for a sec, yeah, and and giving room for the holy spirit. Yeah, we have a plan, like when we gather together, okay, we're going to pray, we're going to pray for people, there's going to be some teaching and instruction, but now we're going to give room for the holy spirit. And one of the best questions that I ever heard is someone asking what is the Holy Spirit saying to you? What's the Holy Spirit saying to you? What's he saying for you to do? So I'll give you an example. Recently, debbie and I are going to be going to this event in Canada. So this is near our home in Canada. The city's called Drayton Valley. 17:15 It's an uh, if you're familiar with the province of Alberta which is kind of like the Texas equivalent in Canada, right oil producing agricultural bit of redneck yeah, good, calgary, edmonton, stampede the whole thing yep, cowboy country, so a city called Drayton Valley, so it's about an hour south of Edmonton and they have a great hockey team there. Anybody who's a hockey fan just you should cheer for Drayton, does no Edmonton? 17:43 - Speaker 1 come on. 17:44 - Speaker 2 Really do they really? Yeah, they had some good hockey players. 17:47 - Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm sorry we stole a team from Minneapolis and won the cup. 17:52 - Speaker 2 Oh, they still haven't forgotten they still have in Minneapolis they have not forgiven. 17:56 - Speaker 3 Okay, back to my point anyway. 17:58 - Speaker 2 So there's going to be an event there the first Friday night Saturday of September. So Rodney Howard Brown is coming Now. This guy's like a global revivalist. How long has he been doing this? For 40 years. What would you think? 18:09 - Speaker 1 I don't know, 50, maybe no, not 50. 18:11 - Speaker 2 But 40 for sure, yeah, 35. So he's coming. 18:14 - Speaker 1 I'm trying to remember when Rodney and. I worked together and we did a big thing in Madison Square Garden years ago so this is 25 years ago. 18:23 - Speaker 2 So he's still doing revival meetings and it was amazing I haven't heard much about him recently. So, this business guy, they had a conference, dependently Wealthy, they had David Green come from Hobby Lobby come and speak at it, yeah. 18:40 - Speaker 1 You know, steve man, how do you take honorariums? 18:43 - Speaker 3 he just smiled, he goes any travel expenses he flew up in his own jet right can I good, can I top up the gas tank? 18:50 - Speaker 2 I mean, it was, it was a bit of a joke. He says no, but anyway, rodney howard brown, he reaches out to him and Rodney prays about it and he goes. I'm supposed to come. I saw a vision of an open field. He goes you'll never believe this, rodney. We're going to have it outdoors in an open field 5,000 people. 19:10 They're anticipating five or more thousand people coming. The small town is 7,200 people where they're going to have this event. Yeah, okay, rodney Howard feels so strongly about this. He sends in advance a $50,000 check to help get things ready for the event. Okay, what are they going to do? The fire of God? Yeah, who's going to be there? There'll be church people. There are going to be a lot of business people there. Now, this really got my attention because I go yeah, you know, so often in business. It's about it. 19:44 It's about your knowledge, about your skill about your systems about your, your planning, your execution, your accountability, your financial management, all these things. But at the end of the day, it has to burn on the inside of you. It's going to be for God, because you know everything's going to be tested by fire, right, right, and it's going to be. Is it going to be precious stones, or is it going to be wood, hay and stubble? And what do we want? We want to build something that lasts. Even in the marketplace, talking to people all the time, they want to build something that lasts. So, all of a sudden, ronnie Brown goes and initially I didn't know how I felt about it, and then the Holy Spirit began to convict me. Mike, remember when you were so hungry for more? 20:26 - Speaker 1 of the Spirit. 20:27 - Speaker 2 Do you remember? Yeah, and I go. Yeah, you're entering that season again. So my wife and I and some business friends of ours, we went up there right before I came to Texas last week. We went up, we prayed on the site of the event. He has a prayer cabin there on site. We prayed there and we prayed. Here's the thing we prayed God, whatever you want to do, we're open to it. Wow, whatever you are willing to do, well, that's it. Come Holy Spirit. 20:57 - Speaker 1 That's the prayer that we need to it. Wow, whatever you are willing to do, well, that's it. Come Holy Spirit. That's the prayer that we need to pray and this is why, when we're talking about ministry to our families as men, talking about ministry in our business right, ministry in the things that we do, everything we put our hands to, we're asking for the anointing and power of the Holy Spirit. And you know, being a charismatic or follower of Christ, in which there's been, as DL Moody said, a second anointing, you know, the gift of the Holy Spirit prophetic word, you know all of the move, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, doesn't mean that you're some sort of higher level. What it means is an amplification of who Christ is in your life and the ability to speak into the hearts of men, I believe, with a more piercing level. 21:46 You know, I remember praying for a man. I'll never forget this. I prayed for a guy we were in and this was not my and this is, as you know, Mike, this is not where I was headed, you know, in terms of, I was going to do movies and television and media, and this is, as you know, Mike, this is not where I was headed, you know, in terms of. I was going to do movies and television and media and my dad started this ministry years ago. We came alongside, helped him, help fund it and then, after he passed away, retractioned the ministry a few years later. 22:12 So now here I am, speaking places that I never, that was never my, that was never the deal. Yeah, someday I'll be in a pulpit and uh, you know, I'm out there surfing as a kid, thinking I'm not going to be in a pulpit ever. So now here I am and I'm praying for a young man in Harare, zimbabwe, and I prayed over him and I laid hands on him and all of a sudden he falls down. Well, I was like, okay, laying on of hands. 22:40 - Speaker 2 You didn't push biblical. No, I didn't courtesy drop right there was no, yeah. 22:44 - Speaker 1 So he fell down, got on the ground, started laughing and like, wow, this is wild man, this is crazy. This is before you know even some of the contemporary stuff that was happening here. And I I thought you know, okay, so we pray for the man. I thought, okay, that's an unusual thing. I get word later from my friend, tom Duchelle, who's the pastor of that church. He said that man was a mathematician, slash scientist. Everything he did in his life was based on numbers and rules and structure and structure. And he said in his marriage was a mess. Yep, because he couldn't structure the thing the way it needed to be you mean you can't with women? 23:30 - Speaker 2 it's not a mathematical formula there's a formula, but it ain't math you know, good point, that's another podcast. 23:39 - Speaker 1 So the thing is that Tom got a hold of me later. He said that guy's a different man. He said from that night because something broke inside of him. His laying on the ground laughing released something to where he became expressive towards his wife and his family, you know, just hugging his kids rather than just and it changed everything. 24:03 Something happens in an encounter with Christ that happens no other way. Now I'm not saying it has to be, that it could be. I think of. I've read the writings of Brother Lawrence, with meditation and those things where there's these deep moments with God. You've had those same experiences. The Samuel, the voice in the night where Eli comes and says no, that's God. You need to ask him what's up. There are many ways that this happens. It doesn't have to be a certain way. We make denominations out of it, true, right, it's like the. To be a certain way. We make denominations out of it, true, right, it's like the denomination of healing blindness. Well, there's the one spit, two spit, no spit denominations, come on, because there's different ways of doing it. The fact is, the anointing and power of the Holy Spirit, however, that's administered, is what we must have as we minister to men, as we walk, our friends, our family, our loved ones, through the walking with God, to be aggressive, to run after things? 25:10 - Speaker 2 Well, here's the biggest you talk about. If you want to give a miracle, well, you believe miracles happen. Today I go yes, well, prove it to me. Changed heart, changed heart yeah, that is the simplest thing that you could describe my heart God gave me when he touched me. He took my heart of stone and gave me a heart of flesh I had. My heart was so wounded and it was so encapsulated with unforgiveness and bitterness. To protect this is what I thought right To protect my heart. But what did I really need? I needed my heart to be set free, to be all that God wanted, to be in touch with how God created me body, soul, spirit, right, our mind, our will and our emotions. And most this is a big thing for me. Most men are not always comfortable in the world of emotions because I don't always understand and it you know. 26:04 I don't want to be that guy who's always, you know, crying and stuff, but I tell you, I am more as God healed my heart, I am more in touch with the issues of my life, because I'm okay with being in touch with the issues of my heart, and that that was a revolutionary thing for me, I think as a man now, as a father and a grandfather and his friend and a colleague to be in touch with the issues of my heart have made me better on every single level yeah, no question yeah it also. 26:37 - Speaker 1 It also brings you place to a place of healing, because then the power and anoint, the bomb of gilead, the ability to heal hurts, to heal bitterness, to be able to forgive your dad who you know, healed people, heal people. 26:51 - Speaker 2 Yeah, I have to be. Here's the big thing. And my son that was probably 10 years ago. He talked to me about it goes. Dad, I remember when you were an angry, angry person. Well, is this your oldest? 27:03 - Speaker 3 no, my middle son really so there's a year between the two. 27:06 - Speaker 2 Yeah, debbie, and I are close yeah just kind of yeah, quite figure out how that worked well, no, you did figure, we did figure it out. 27:12 We just didn't plan very well, he said, dad, I remember when you were that angry person, and then I remember the time when it changed and you weren't an angry person anymore and you were affectionate and you communicated your love and you were like you treated mom better and you treated your friends better and and it was, yeah, because you know so much of mentoring men. It's not what you say, it's how you live your life as a father. What are the kids? They're watching how I live. Then they're seeing if the words match up with it. That's what it is, because if not, we call it hypocrisy. 27:46 Right? What did they see? They saw me grappling with issues. They saw me getting into God's word. They saw me seeking after God. They saw me praying. They saw me getting into God's word. They saw me seeking after God. They saw me praying and all of a sudden they go well, that's normal, that's what a man does, because men need to hear from other men. What does it take to be a man when other men model for them and then welcome them into the fraternity? 28:12 - Speaker 1 of manhood. Yeah, that's it. Now they know that's it. Everything changes. So here's my as we summate this. Here's my thing for us with Christian Men's Network, with what we do and I know you're on the same page with this is that it is. You know, there must be an anointing and power of the Holy Spirit when we do all the things we do. You can have a group of men, you can gather, you can go out and shoot stuff, you know, whatever the thing, is, which we're not opposed to oh no, it's a good thing, it's a good Some stuff, whatever it is. 28:48 - Speaker 2 Time to be born, time to die Go play basketball, whatever the thing may be. 28:52 - Speaker 1 You know gathering, you know gathering, but there has to be a time where you go, bro, what's up? And the guy goes yeah, you know, I'm kind of dealing with the thing with my kid man. He's, he's 13, he's not listening to me and hey, you know what? Uh, you know, jack and I and jamal, we're gonna pray right now for you. Yeah, you know, we're gonna pray. 29:13 - Speaker 2 God gives you wisdom in a breakthrough in that young man's heart and and and you'll probably offer some wisdom, yeah, and experience, but it's twofold. It's not. A lot of people set that up as either or you know, I'm either into learning stuff or I'm into the no, no, it's not the it's. It's both wisdom you know wisdom and the power of the holy spirit. You put those two things together. Now it is dynamite. What's? 29:39 - Speaker 1 that hormone replacement thing Is hormone replacement therapy. I think there ought to be spiritual replacement theology. Like you know what I mean, like you need that, you need a jab, you need this thing which is like bam, all of a sudden my brain, my heart comes alive. You know, it's that old quote. It gets quoted many different ways. Let me quote it this way is that most men die at 50. We just don't bury them until they're 75 because they stopped. You know, and I had a friend of mine the other day, chip harper or chris harper, excuse me who said he said 29. He used 29 in this in his quote, not quote go 29. Well, it's because he said, you know, guys get into a thing, to get into a rhythm, to get into a plateau, and that's just it. That's where they stay. That's why. That's why you got movies like hangover, which is guys in their hey. That's why you got movies like Hangover, which is guys in their 40s who are acting like they're 29. 30:38 20, yeah. 30:40 Right and it's glorified Well it's glorified and what it is is culture giving permission for those guys to do that. And I have a whole. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's an actual theory, it's actual, I think it's fact. And that is the gaming industry. Video games is massive, right, it's bigger than movies. It's seven times the size of the movie industry. But who owns it? They all own all the same conglomerates own all of it. 31:07 Okay. So if you want, and here's the average age of a man who's buying, of a boy, or man who's buying, you know, or man who's buying, you know, because when you go on these apps and you play video games, the way you make money at it, the way they make money, is there's in-app purchases. Sure, there is, everybody knows that one Yep, yep, okay, because you get the free download of something and you go, oh, there's in-app purchases. In other words, if you want the app to work, then you gotta buy something. Eight bucks a month, whatever. So all these billions of dollars are in the app. So they're buying, uh, next levels, they're buying armor, they're buying all these things. The average age of a gamer right now this is this is north america. The average age of a gamer is 35. Serious, yeah, we think it's like, think it's like 16-year-olds, 14-year-olds which it is Well, 35-year-olds have the money. 32:00 Exactly, that's who has the money and that's who's funding it. Now there's also 40-year-old dads who are telling their kids yeah, I don't have time for you here, here's some money, buy some more stuff, yeah. So the fact is, is that there is a? There is, if you will, and I'm going to take it back to the grand conspiracy, which is the enemy trying to tear down the image of God. And how do you tear down the image of God? What's the image of God? The family. So how do you tear down the family? You tear down the structure. Where's that start? Starts with the man? Yep, right. Starts with dad. Starts with the father, because the atmosphere of a family comes from the dad. Totally right. So now they set the tone. Yeah. So if you're going to tear it down, if you're going to tear down the image of God, you got to tear down men. If you're going to tear down men, what you got to do is get them distracted. You got to move them off the wrong path. 100. So I'm not saying all video games are bad, I'm saying the obsessive use of them is wrong. You got to put boundaries around it. 33:05 Yep, I had this man that we counseled. Once that dude, his wife. Uh came to my wife and said uh said we're having problems in the marriage. So what's the problem? Well, he's playing video games. Okay, what do you mean? Well, like, he's playing video games all night because he's on the headset, he's playing with guys around the world. They're getting in a competition, yes, and he's going all night, friday night, all night, saturday night. She goes. 33:29 - Speaker 2 I'm walking in front of him naked no response and he's like, hey, get out of the way try to play a game and uh, so he needed a word. 33:42 - Speaker 1 It's like, bro, if you know, there has to be a clue and there had to be boom. There had to be something in him, because he was, he was hooked on this stuff, man, that's dopamine hit exactly. So he had to be, he had to be renewed, his mind had to be renewed. His mind had to be renewed. It couldn't just be information, couldn't just be me going, hey Bob, this is the issue going on here. There had to be a prayer time where something happened in his heart and life that changed that, because he was hooked on that dopamine hit of that thing. So that's why I say in all of our ministry that we do ministry to men, whether it's in an Anglican church or charismatic church doesn't matter where it is. 34:26 Whether it's in a Catholic parish in Arequipa, Peru, or it's in a church in the middle of Zimbabwe, the anointing and power of the Holy Spirit is what breaks everything, that's what unleashes it, and we've got to be praying into that. If all you did was give your men information, they may walk away inspired. But information the way I'd say it this way, Mike is this way that information easily becomes inspiration and then easily becomes evaporation. What men need is a revelation of Christ, an impartation of the Holy Spirit which produces a transformation in their lifestyle, Because until the man's heart changes, his hands don't change. 35:11 - Speaker 2 You remember, right before we got started this morning, that quote and it was a quote that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is not the same thing as the tree of life, and for me that ties right into it. It's not knowledge that'll change someone. Now, the truth will set you free, and I've seen universities use that as their motto right, but that's only a starting point, that's only a seed. 35:40 You know, the key thing is it's, it's the tree of life. That's where we find what we need. And I was thinking about you. I go, I've been, I've known you for probably 10 years, give or take, and a little bit more recently we get to know each other a little bit better. But what? What do I see in you? A person who dreams dreams like your world is getting bigger and bigger, even as you get older and older. That's not normal. For most men, that's acts 217, that's most guys are winding down, you're winding up, we are you you are and it's and being around, being with you. 36:17 Your vision is big. But you, when your vision is big and this is a key thing for older men, when they get a bigger vision, you know who they attract. They attract other men, yeah, who want to see their vision grow yeah and they go. I'm inspired how, how do you do it and you go? Well, here's some things I do and and I rely on the holy spirit. Yeah, no question. So like attracts, like yeah so that's true that's why I love being around you that's what we started. 36:44 - Speaker 1 That's what we started with was your sons and daughters will prophesy, which means speak life. 36:48 This is not the gift of prophecy, speak life, so as young men will see visions, old men will dream dreams. Now, when you think of a young man, usually, usually you think of a dreamer, not a visionary. But what it says in the last days I'll pour out my spirit and young men will be visionaries. I believe there's 18, 19, 25-year-old young men who will have visions of new things that God's given to us 100% To increase the kingdom Bam, whether it's music or arts or movies, technology, technology, inventions, whatever it may be. 37:20 And I believe that there's older men. God's going to give them new dreams, because we think of older men, we think of oh, he's a visionary. What about dreamers, man? We need older men who have dreams. 37:32 - Speaker 2 I tell you that gets inspiring. 37:34 - Speaker 1 I know I'm fired up. I tell you that gets inspiring. I know I'm fired up. Hey, thank you, Michael Bolton, for being with me on Brave Men podcast. I get fired up about this stuff. Get going. I could talk forever on it, and thank you for listening and being a part of Brave Men podcast today. Remember, Christian Men's Network is here in order to help you disciple. Have the tools that you need to disciple men and your family. 38:00 - Speaker 2 Go to cmnmen to get all those resources and you got a big conference coming up in November, right? 38:03 - Speaker 1 Yeah, we got conferences. 38:04 - Speaker 2 I'm coming to it, by the way, the weekend of November every year is Lion's Roar and cmnsummitcom. 38:12 - Speaker 3 Thanks, Make sure you're there. All right, that's going to be awesome. 38:17 And bring somebody. Brave men is a production of Christian Men's Network, a global movement of men committed to passionately following Jesus on the ground in over 100 nations worldwide. You can receive the Brave Men motivational email, find books and resources for discipleship and parenting at cmn.men. That's cmn.men. Your host has been Paul Louis Cole, president of Christian Men's Network, and if you haven't yet, please make sure you subscribe to the Brave Men podcast wherever your fine podcasts are downloaded. Thanks for hanging with us today. We'll see you next time on Brave Men.