Michael Murphy; A Practical Blueprint for Building a Life Worth Living.

00:05 - Speaker 1 Hi, this is Paul Louis Cole. You're listening to the Brave Men Podcast. Fired up today to see Michael Murphy on the podcast. He's going to be great. He wrote a book called Accelerate. It's XLR8, accelerate a prophetic and practical blueprint to double your church. Now he knows this because he's a coach to some of the most high-impact I guess would be one way to say it churches that are getting something done, pastors who are concerned, they're missional, they're concerned with their community, they're outreaching, and he's a coach to hundreds of those pastors around the world. Over the last decade, leaderscape, the ministry he heads up, he and his wife, val have worked with hundreds of pastors, helping them define their mission, focus in, and he's going to do that for us today. It's going to be fantastic. Michael was a pastor of a great church in Southern Sydney, was pastor of a great church in southern Sydney. Prior to that, he was part of building a global church well-recognized around the world, and he did that for many years. He's on the board of Christian Men's Network and he's the chairman of the board of one of the major Christian universities in the world called Alpha Crucis, which is based in Australia. 01:23 Michael and I talk a lot about what it means to disciple your family, to disciple men, to be a disciple. What does that mean? How do we walk with that? The tools and resources you need for that are at cmnmen C-M-N Christian Men's Network. Cmnmen Christian Men's Network is the sponsor of the Brave Men podcast. Cmnmen Christian Men's Network is the sponsor of the Brave Men podcast and one of the books that is on that site. Of course, maximize Manhood is a foundational book we use all over the world. I'm looking right now at one that is in Arabic. Over the last 18 months it's been crazy. We've launched in a number of different places around the world helping pastors build strong men, strong families, strong churches. So, through different places of faith churches, local parishes, wherever it may be we help leaders, develop leaders and to lead. Of course, we know leading means serving, but Maximize Manhood in Arabic looking at that, it's fantastic. We've got an entire training thing going on for a number of days in the fall of 2025 in the nation of Jordan, with over 100 pastors involved there, Steve Trevino doing that. 02:44 And then we're on YouTube with a new series called Absolute Answers. It's the answers to prodigal problems. It's really Dr Ed Cole, my father, wrote this book, absolute Answers to Prodigal Problems and it was about his own life. What does it mean to turn around? And one of the key phrases in there is what's the pivot point between ruin and reconciliation? The pivot point is repentance. And what does that mean? And Psalm 37, 23 says the footsteps of a righteous man are ordered of the Lord. And in verse 24, which I think might be by life verse says and when he stumbles, the Lord won't cast him aside. So it's like the when you stumble, it's not if you stumble, it's when you do. And what's the pivot point? Repentance. We see David, who Bishop Dale Brawner, in a recent message, talked about. David was a man of integrity because when he messed up, he repented. I thought that was a powerful thought and so Absolute Answers on YouTube go on there. It's a nine-part series. It may already have been already all on there, but it goes on once a week. It's going on right now. 04:01 Hey, thanks for being on the Brave Men podcast. 04:03 I get fired up when I've got friends like Mike Murphy who are here in the studio Christian Men's Network studio and we're able to sit down and just go through some things. 04:13 There's a lot of conversation before and after and then, if you will the deepest parts we put on tape for you and I to be a part of. Hey, thanks for being here today Really means a lot and if you would do this for me, subscribe to the podcast, whatever you're listening to it on and wherever you might be right now, working out, driving in your car, sitting with your computer late at night, wherever it may be, hit the subscribe button because that algorithm, even though we don't know how it works, somehow, in some way it puts us in front of more people, so if we have more subscribers. So thanks for doing that. I really enjoy being with you on the brave men podcast and it means a lot that you come along also and that you tell somebody else about it. Here's Mike Murphy. This is going to be awesome. Okay, this is Michael Murphy Brave Men podcast, and in this podcast today we just had a near death experience Because, just as we're rolling your shoulder does something? 05:21 - Speaker 2 Old man disease mate, and and overweight suitcases. I actually I actually lifted my suitcase to repack it yet again and uh, and I felt this twinge toward my shoulder, uh, and so we cut and we're back and we're all good I'm looking. 05:40 - Speaker 1 I'm looking at you and I'm thinking oh, can we keep this tape? 05:44 - Speaker 2 going. No, no, it's just my shoulder, man. 05:46 - Speaker 1 Is he about to die or what you know? 05:49 - Speaker 3 We're good, I don't have time for 911, man, yeah, exactly. 05:53 - Speaker 2 We've got stuff we're doing. We've got stuff to do. We're going, we're having it, we're running Check this out, check this out. 06:07 - Speaker 1 So this is right to what we're talking about. I saw a man uh, in fact a man wrote in a book recently. I was reading and he said what a terrible epitaph it would be if the epitaph on your grave was at least he got all his work done. 06:17 - Speaker 2 Oh, yeah wow yeah that's like that thing that says no one on their deathbed says gosh. I wish I'd worked harder. 06:27 - Speaker 1 Yeah, or spent more days at the office, yeah. So it's not to say that work is holy right, so nothing. We're not talking about that. What we're talking about how do you balance life? So here you are. I've given a little bit of background about you, but you're still involved. You're a multi-business guy. You've got things going on. You're an entrepreneur, but you've also been a life coach, a pastor. You've raised your own three children. You've got awesome children. You've kept your marriage together. How long have you guys been married now? 07:02 - Speaker 2 41. 41?. 07:04 - Speaker 1 Yep, yep. We still love each other and like each other most days. Kept your marriage together. 07:05 - Speaker 2 How long have you guys been married now? Uh, 41, 41, yep, yep, we still love each other and like each other most days. 07:07 - Speaker 1 Yeah most days, you know, and uh, valerie's a remarkable woman a speaker and writer and author in her own right. She's amazing and how do you do that? How do you? You navigate that. Here you are, let's say, let's say, you're in your 30s. Yeah, and you were running hard. 07:24 - Speaker 2 It's seasonal right, it really is. I remember one day when we were pioneering Hillsong. 07:34 - Speaker 1 Hills. 07:34 - Speaker 2 Christian. 07:34 - Speaker 3 Life Center. 07:35 - Speaker 2 It was called back then with Brian and Bobby Houston and I think I'd had eight nights out and I was going out to another. 07:44 - Speaker 1 These were events, church events, stuff, stuff, stuff. You know prayer, meeting this, that and the other Important things. Kids were real little. 07:51 - Speaker 3 Kids were real little. 07:52 - Speaker 2 And I came back home and Val and I had a fight on the way out, like we had an argument. Well, that's an unusual thing for us and so I drove off down the road and self-righteously like man she doesn't understand. This is a board meeting man. It's important, we're building the kingdom. I came back and she said do you want to know what your little I think three or four-year-old son did? 08:19 - Speaker 1 when you drove down the road. Ryan. 08:21 - Speaker 2 Ryan, who's now? 08:24 - Speaker 1 a partner at a law firm. But back then remarkable god's grace is amazing. 08:28 - Speaker 2 And uh, I wanted to say no, not really, because I knew what was coming right. And she said she told me. Anyway. She said he stood up in the in the box window and had a little drawing that he he did for you at preschool and said look what I drew for you, daddy. And uh, and I just crumbled to. He held it to the window as I drove away oh, my oh and I just it broke me, it broke me. 08:53 So I think, that first of all, let me say to every man, every father listening to this, who has made mistakes, which is everyone yeah, which is all of us, all of us of course um. 09:06 God is an incredibly gracious redeeming god, um, and he, he, he wants to be the senior partner in the raising of your children and, uh, if you'll commit whatever's happened to him, then there's grace on the other side now there's the key right there, because you talk about this Okay, there's God's grace on the other side, but your part of that is keeping your own heart tuned A hundred percent. Yeah. 09:36 - Speaker 1 Into being a follower of Christ. Yeah, yeah. 09:38 - Speaker 2 Yeah, right, you know, I think and, and you know we were um, we were going hard back in those early days. And since then and I think I was also chair of Youth Alive and you know, there was a number of different things, yeah with. 09:54 - Speaker 3 Christine Kane Christian's Network. I was involved. 09:57 - Speaker 2 You know running that in Australia, yeah of course, and Brian was very gracious in terms of releasing all of that. And then I had young kids, and so I'm glad you said back to your 30s. 10:06 - Speaker 1 Now it's easy, I'm a granddad oh yeah, I don't have to keep my life. You hand them back. Yeah, hand them back. 10:11 - Speaker 2 And you know, and to be honest, it still gets me. I'm probably still traveling too much because I miss them terribly, you know. But back in your 30s, when, um you, you think you know more than you do, I did, I, I think I knew, I thought I knew more than. 10:25 - Speaker 1 I did, oh, we all knew more yeah yeah, the older I get, the more I realize, the less I know. You know that I had it wired. Now, part of that, don't you think part of that is naturally wired into a man that he hits that mid-20s to 45 stretch and it's like. It's like that building thing like you're visionary. 10:51 - Speaker 2 You hit 30, you start a business seasons right in his book, half time yeah, what a great book a fantastic book and then and then you get to a point at 40, 45, 50, whatever, and you're really looking for significance, not so much much success. So it's not wrong, it is hardwired. God gave man a job before he gave him a wife. 11:14 - Speaker 1 Come on man. 11:15 - Speaker 2 And so there is something there. I almost don't like the word and I understand the sense of balance, because I don't know no such thing. I don't know that you're ever going to get balance. 11:26 - Speaker 1 You know what I like and I think, trying to remember it seems to me it might be my professor, lynn Sweet, who hit me with this, but somebody hit me with it, it's mine now is that there's no such thing as balance. What it is is rhythm. 11:41 - Speaker 2 Beautiful. I love it. 11:42 - Speaker 1 Rhythm. 11:44 - Speaker 2 Rhythm from a heart of consecration. So when you get that right, when your heart of hearts is to really get to know Jesus and to take your family on that journey, then it's amazing what flows out of that. I mean, you know, matthew 6.33 says Seek first the kingdom of God. His righteousness which actually I took the first part and really neglected the second part for a bit His righteousness is not being a good guy, his righteousness is understanding that our righteousness is His righteousness that comes by faith and there's a rest in that. So when you come out of that seat of rest and you wrote about it, your identity in Christ, it takes away honestly what was a big treadmill for me, which is that striving spirit. 12:40 - Speaker 1 All right, so people are. You know, john mark comer wrote the book. What is it? The uh, the ruthless elimination of hurry, which came from a uh uh professor. And you know, uh talk that a professor gave. So we're all into this rest, and but aren't there seasons where you just have to crank? 13:01 - Speaker 2 it, yeah, there. 13:01 - Speaker 1 Yeah, there is, there really is. I mean, I can't—let me just interject one more thing. I met a man—I knew a man at our church who, over and over, would not accept promotions at the company he was at. Okay, yeah, now, later in life, they did not have the advantages, let's say, of what many of those promotions would have given them for their family, how he could have helped his children with things you know, get started and whatever later in life. And he's I don't know what that was, you know, because he was so ruthless about legalistic, I guess is what it would be. Yep, right, how do we do all of that? 13:49 - Speaker 2 If you tend to your wife's soul, like really minister to her uniqueness, as your mom wrote, minister to her soul, yeah, then there'll be a spirit of release to do the things that bring delight and joy to your soul. If you don't do that, then your spouse is going to be focused up on the minutia of all the things that you were doing wrong. 14:19 - Speaker 1 So let's set some things in order, then, ministering to your wife's soul. I remember Coach McCartney, who just recently passed away to be with the Lord, and I remember him and a small group of men saying to us he said your wife's face is a reflection of your heart. It's like what your wife's face is a reflection of your heart, in other words, the things that are your priority, things you're holding in here. She's going to reflect and you're like, oh man, you're stressed, you're this, you're that. You're not ministering to her heart. 14:58 - Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, right. So I think, in finding and using the word you, you raised, I like it rhythm yeah is you. 15:07 You've got to. You've got to, first of all, even before you prioritize your kids, you've got to, yes, find that sweet spot and work out what it is that you know you might parade in front of her in your jocks and probably not going to do it for her, you know there's, there's some uniqueness that she needs to be ministered, you know in. And so if you can, if you can, if you can crack that, then it's going to release a whole lot of stuff. Her fulfillment will actually, yeah, as I said, bring release okay. 15:40 - Speaker 1 So now, uh, let's, let's talk about that because I like that. I like where we're headed is. There are seasons of, let's say, building a business yeah, because you've done this, whether it was building a church, building a business, which you've done, yeah. There are seasons, particularly at this little front end part and in different times in it, where it's like you know what, and judy and I've hit this, you know my wife and I've hit this where it's like what do you got? 16:04 - Speaker 2 how many, how many years you got now? 16:06 - Speaker 1 yeah, 53 53 yeah so we're trying to figure it out yeah we figured if we did 50 then the next 50 might be okay yeah, so the thing is, is that but what we have done? 16:17 and we sit down and we calendar yeah and I know, uh, I've got some great friends matt, hubbard and others who take quarterly meetings with their spouse, and this might be if you're single. I would suggest the same thing Step back, go find a cabin in the woods or something by the ocean and do a two-day intensive every quarter and just say, okay, where am I headed and why am I here and where are we headed? And and so being able to like, for instance, dr Matt, he's building a tremendous business in San Diego, so he sits with his wife and they look at it and they go okay, coming up in June, this is going to be a tough month. I'm going to be gone a lot. I'm going to be doing all these intensives, I'm going to be doing this, da, da, da, da, da da. 17:04 So now you build towards that. So now you know, coming up in June, there's a season of just it's just going to be, it's all in. You're not going to be home much, you're going to be doing all this stuff. But what you've done preceding that is if you will set things in order, spend time with the children, time with your wife, take her out on a date and then, knowing like, if you knew Michael, think about this. If you knew that at the end of that season, life would be better because you've built your business better. You've built the cabin you wanted to build, you've finished working on a car that you wanted to run, whatever that piece is, yeah, if you knew that at the end of that season, life would be better for you. What would be willing to do? Totally yeah, but without a vision, yeah, yeah. 17:54 - Speaker 2 Without a dream, you wander right, you dwell carelessly and, to be honest, I think we could have done better and we still could do better. Where my rhythm is, this year I'll be away every other month and she'll be with me probably every second trip, so I'll be in Australia for five months and I'll be in the US. 18:14 - Speaker 1 Because you're all over the world. You're in the US, you're in Europe all these different places and you're based out of the Sydney Australia area. 18:20 - Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, but you know this ahead of time you set it up I do, and we and we, we look at the calendar, uh, and she knows like, like, uh, and again we're getting off topic a bit, but as she's, as it's become more discretionary for her and she's, she's got grandkids very close right I've had to make it a little more attractive, like this next one, for example. She said do you want me to come on that? I said oh, we're going to Portugal and Spain. 18:51 And she said oh, that sounds interesting, so it sounds exotic, we're ministering at all those places You're working some days a week. 19:00 Helping with pastors and we do our little side trips and helping with pastors. But if we go back to when we were young and our marriage, I thought we were toast in the first two years. We were both two broken people. Yeah, and we got through that, by God's grace. And the practicality of that for us is that we're both pretty hot-headed and so when the temperature started to rise, one of us whomever was more in control would grab the hands of the other and this is this central piece and we'd go into the bedroom and we'd kneel down beside the bed and we'd say, god, we are messing this up, we're not coping. I promise you, paul, every single time that hardness of heart would lift. The problem wasn't solved. We had to work through, but we were doing it from a position of freedom and grace rather than a position of tightness and angst, rather than a position of tightness and angst. And that's the manifestation for us of seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, which actually kept our hearts soft toward one another. 20:13 - Speaker 1 All right. So now, what we're talking about now is preparation, and this is true in everybody's life, single or married is that? It's classic John Wooden, the great basketball coach, who said failure to prepare is preparation for failure. And he I'm reading in fact I'm reading one of his books right now and he talks about he said the one thing he knew is that when they reached the point of a game, his team was prepared. He had prepared himself, he had prepared himself, he had prepared them, and so he walked. He said there's not one single game that he walked into hundreds and hundreds, thousands of basketball games. He said that he didn't think they had a chance. He said every game they walked into, he felt they had a chance to win. Now, did he know? Sometimes they were maybe overmatched, yeah, but you know what? My men are more prepared. 21:04 - Speaker 2 Yeah. 21:05 - Speaker 1 My men are prepared. So that preparation is your own heart. Yeah, yeah, right, your time in the Word, yeah. Then, when things are good, in other words, when things are, just even have a time of prayer with your wife. Don't pray together only when it's urgent. 21:22 Yeah, it's good, it's really good, don't pray together only when it's crisis, like, hey, we pray together, yeah, like when. Like when it's crisis, like we've got to make payroll Friday, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't have it. Oh God, let's pray together. Then what happens is your wife is just your 911. 21:40 - Speaker 2 What is it in Australia? 21:43 - Speaker 1 611? 000. But the same thing. She's your paramedic. 21:48 - Speaker 2 Yeah, and I think that the other thing that I think is really important and this is a really basic one, but just have fun, like with the kids, there'd be times I'd come home on a Friday night and I'd had up to the eyeballs with people's problems as a young pastor and my job was to do the pastoring, so I would sometimes have a book of 20. 22:13 - Speaker 1 And you guys scaled so fast sometimes have a book of 20 and you guys scaled 20 so fast. Ended up thousands of people out of 5 000 in in in a handful of years. 22:20 - Speaker 2 So so we're playing catch-up and in fact, it was my job to set up the structure to cope with that. But, um, and I, and I would. I, I would feel my scalp crawling as I got home. But I, I had a practice before I opened the door. I would just stop and I would say, god, these little people on the other side of this door, um, don't deserve what I'm feeling oh wow, can you? 22:47 please lift it from me wow and so then I the door would open and I would this ah daddy monster's home, and I'd jump down on my four. Fours. Start growling and the kids would jump all over me. Ah, daddy's home, you know. And sometimes. 23:05 - Speaker 1 So what you're talking about is how can I be present? 23:09 - Speaker 2 Yes, yeah, you can't be present if you've got a stomach full of stuff from the day. 23:18 - Speaker 1 There has to be a place where we decompress. That doesn't there? Yeah, there really is. I mean even at the front door. But maybe the suggestion for some of us is that we stop at a cafe. 23:29 - Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, don't come straight home. 23:30 - Speaker 1 Have a cup of coffee or whatever the thing is, and even 10 minutes minutes. I have found that 10 minutes, just a 10 minute hit yeah and I'll grab, uh, my kindle, or I'll grab a whatever I'm reading, yep, and rather than stuff myself with oh my god, the war in ethiopia is going bad or the ukraine thing. 23:53 - Speaker 2 Just tipped over the legacy media over. You don't need the legacy media or even the social media stuff. 23:57 - Speaker 1 No and then all of a sudden, I'm flipping through the news and then the kids. You've got to find that place. Let's say, you put on a headset and all of a sudden I'm listening to Phil Pringle. I'm listening to Phil speak on faith. He's in Isaiah and you're just, you're like ah, the. 24:21 Thing dials down, you know, and it's not like I've got to do a Bible study for an hour, but just that. And I don't even listen sometimes to a whole message. You know, let's say Chris Vallotton or whoever you know boom, all of a sudden there's that. Let's say Chris Vallotton or whoever Boom, all of a sudden there's that anointing and power. We have something, michael. 24:39 - Speaker 2 Yes. 24:40 - Speaker 1 And to those who are with us right now, to my friend who's listening. Right now we have something that nobody else has. We have the anointing and power of the Holy Spirit of God, almighty, yeah we do. Yeah, we have the Prince of Peace in us, right. 24:54 - Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. 24:56 - Speaker 1 Well, how ridiculous would it be if we didn't access that. 25:00 - Speaker 2 Yeah, like we don't sometimes. 25:02 - Speaker 1 Well, no, of course we don't. 25:03 - Speaker 2 Yeah, once we've got the inside life right. Well, you know tending to and we understand ministering to our wife's soul and we're planning. I think what we do is we work with churches and help them, and I've never, ever found a church yet that I said you guys need to be doing more stuff, but every church seems like they're busy bound right there their activity, their activity bound, and and busyness and activity is almost always the the result of a lack of strategic priorities. 25:48 Wow, when you don't know what you're meant to be doing, wow any road will get you there. And many pastors and this is hopefully where we were able to help that. They'll throw activity at the wall. We'll do another event, We'll do another big outreach. We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll get another, it's the same. 26:06 - Speaker 1 We get a lot in the marketplace same in the marketplace right, because it's like hey, we've got a new sales program, we're going to do this. Hey, we're going to do a special next week. Uh, then you know, hey, I want all you guys to go through. You know this and this, and now you got your sales team working on something and we're just going from thing to thing to thing. 26:22 - Speaker 2 Yeah, and the truth is, most of those things will not give you good bang for buck. So what are we covering? But there are some that do so. So if you back that back into your work situation, if your identity is missing and for me this was a huge- problem for me, that's what it comes back to, and so the striving was actually not just stuff. 26:45 It was my striving to be approved, to please people, rather than saying God, what are the four or five things that I need to do in the next month? I mean, I've just taken on a coach again for me and we're doing we were talking about it before. We're doing sprints a six-week sprint and then a breath. 27:10 Six-week sprint Six weeks, spring. And what do I need to accomplish in the next six weeks that are going to help the maximum number of pastors that are going to move leaderscape forward, that are going to blah, blah, blah. So once I solve that and this is not the family thing, this is the work thing, and I own my stuff I say, Murphy, the reason that you are so flippant busy all the time running around like you're a chook with its head cut off, is that you're striving man. 27:46 - Speaker 3 You're doing it without the Spirit of God and you're trying to do everything rather than the things that are going to give you greatest go forward. 27:54 - Speaker 1 I remember Coach McCartney one time saying you want an extra 160 hours a year. He said get up a half hour earlier every day, just meditate and pray. There's a I wrote about it in Just a Bartender, a man who back in the day I mean this is a couple hundred years ago and he wrote everything longhand. He wrote 64 novels. But he got up every morning at 5 am. He would read what he wrote the day before. From 5.30 to 7, he would write, and then from 7 to 7.45, he'd have breakfast with his children and then he went to work at the post office. He was a postal worker. He worked all day then, was with his family that evening, went to sleep the next morning half hour read the stuff he wrote. 28:41 Now I'm using that as an example of he found himself a rhythm in which he stayed engaged with his family, did the thing he loved, had a job right with all its distresses, and I think what you're talking about. You know what I love what you're talking about and, by the way, leaderscape, what's the website? 29:04 - Speaker 2 Theleaderscapecom. 29:07 - Speaker 1 Theleaderscapecom. 29:08 - Speaker 2 Or socials, michael R Murphy, or Accelerate the Book XLR8. Oh yeah, this is a great book. Acceleratebookcom. 29:16 - Speaker 1 Michael R Murphy. Yeah, what's the R stand for, richard? Yeah, michael R Murphy, accelerate. It's XLR and then the number eight. But anyway, michael R Murphy, it's a great book, particularly for pastors and leaders. 29:31 - Speaker 2 Yeah, in order for life balance or life rhythm, we take them through the with the and in growth, put handles on disciple making and raising raising a truckload of leaders and I think that um, so if we, if we go back, you know owning, owning, you know your wife's soul not owning it as in possessing but, but owning that as a priority. 29:56 - Speaker 1 Owning that as a priority. 29:57 - Speaker 2 Keeping your heart full and out of that striving zone. My insecurity drove me for the first 15 years of my ministry Wow, and I've been doing it 40 years. So wasted a lot of time, you know, and did some stuff in that time that were, you know, worthwhile, but often out of that striving spirit. Hey brother, this is some stuff in that time that were, you know, worthwhile, but often out of that striving spirit. 30:17 - Speaker 1 Hey brother, this is great stuff, man. Thanks for being on Brave Men today. And the other thing I do want to say about Leaderscape is it's one of the most successful church pastoral coaching ministries in the world and you're also on the board of Christian Men's Network and you are an incredible source of strategy, of inspiration, motivation and it is great to be family together, brother. 30:47 - Speaker 3 Thanks, paul Great to be with you. 30:48 - Speaker 1 This is great stuff because I believe in the Spirit of God. A couple things you said today, a couple things we shared. We're going to set a few things free for a couple of things you said today, a couple of things we shared. We're going to set a few things free for a couple of our friends. Thanks for being on, brave Men. 31:00 - Speaker 3 An honor. Brave Men is a production of Christian Men's Network, a global movement of men committed to passionately following Jesus on the ground in over a hundred nations worldwide. You can receive the Brave Men motivational email, find books and resources for discipleship and parenting at cmnmen. That's cmnmen. Your host has been Paul Louis Cole, president of Christian Men's Network, and if you haven't yet, please make sure you subscribe to the Brave Men podcast wherever you find podcasts or download it. Thanks for hanging with us today. We'll see you next time on Brave Men.