Lt. Col. Oliver North - The Fire and Grit of a Hero

00:00 - Speaker 1 It's not too often you have a friend who's been targeted for assassination by Abu Nidal, but I have one and he's on the program today. This is Paul Louis Cole. Welcome to Brave Men. I'm with Chris Shields, our producer, and today we have Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North on the program and the only friend I have who's ever been targeted for assassination by Abu Nidal. That's an amazing thing. He is a uh, he's a marine veteran. He, uh, he's, he's won all kinds of awards. He was in the center of uh, the Iran contra controversy back when Reagan was president. Ronald Reagan actually said about him this he said he is a true American hero, yes, and he's an amazing man. I mean, you probably didn't know much about him until I started introducing you to him right exactly. 00:50 You'd seen him on tv and stuff and he's had tv shows for years and uh, of course he had that, uh, that show called war stories on fox. But to know his background, to know what he was, no, it took on a whole other level. Crazy, huh yeah. 01:05 - Speaker 2 When you started introducing me to him. Yeah, and then how deep the man is Exactly. But also a big thing that stands out to me is the humility he walks in. 01:13 - Speaker 1 Yeah, because he's like he's world famous. Yes, and then he was one of the nicest guys you ever had to work with. 01:20 - Speaker 2 Exactly, exactly. Yes, with booking people, one of the smoothest, nicest people. Oh, we'll do anything, whatever you guys would like us to do. 01:28 - Speaker 1 What do you need? Yeah? 01:29 - Speaker 2 Yeah, we're here to serve you guys. 01:33 - Speaker 1 Wait, what You're here, to serve us. 01:34 Yeah, and it was really kind of fun because it was his grandson I think it was one of his grandkids. That kind of helped make sure he was on the interview, exactly Because we did it on Zoom, yes, help make sure he was on the interview, exactly because we did it on zoom, yes. And he's like um, and you see, his grandson leader, we're going right there. It was great. You know, that's his real life and he was taking his grandkids. What were they doing? Uh, the day that I did the interview with him, he was about to take them out and they were going to put in fence posts. Wow, you know. And then in the middle of this interview, he did, did a, really, he did a joke and it's a little crude. What? Yeah, oh, yeah, I thought it was hilarious, though you know he led me right into it. I'm like okay, and then, bam, it's awesome. 02:18 But this guy's amazing, this decorated US Marine best-selling author. I've been reading one of his books and it's about the Revolutionary War Freedom Alliance. He wrote college scholarships for children of service members killed or permanently disabled in the line of duty. This man's done it all. Yeah, you know, I'm so thrilled to have a friend like this. And here's the key thing. Okay, here's the background. Okay, years ago's the background. Okay, years ago when the Iran-Contra thing happened, he was a lieutenant colonel in the Marines. Yeah, he was on the task force in order to do certain things in Central America and so forth and so on and Middle East, et cetera. 02:59 And it came up to be a big congressional hearing. He got called in. He was the star witness. He was the star witness, he was the middle of it, yeah, and the thought was we're going to bring down Reagan presidency based on this guy. It turned out he was stalwart. 03:12 As this thing started, I happened to have an office in Washington DC in my business that I was running at the time, that we had for many years in advertising and public relations and things like that. So I got in touch with them, or they got in touch with me in our office, and one day, as we were headed into a meeting, I thought you know what he needs to read? Maximize Manhood, wow. So I handed it to Dwayne, who was working directly with Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, and I said here, I think he needs to read this. He said I'll give it to him this afternoon. So he gave it to him that afternoon. 03:48 The hearing started two weeks later, very intense public scrutiny all over the world's looking at it, and I didn't know what happened with that until later. About a year later we were in Atlanta and I had him come in and speak at a thing and no excuse me. About two years later, and I introduced him come in and speak at a thing, and no excuse me. About two years later, and I introduced him to my father, dr Cole, ed Cole, who wrote Maximize Manhood, and I said Colonel North. My father, dr Ed Cole, said dad, this is Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North. And of course he knew who he was. But Colonel North looked at my dad and said Ed Ed, thank you for writing Maximized Manhood. 04:26 Now I hadn't known what had happened with it. He reaches in his briefcase, Chris, pulls out a Maximized Manhood it was a smaller book, then it was a little blue, smaller book Pulls it out. He said I read this every single day during the Iran-Contra hearings and this has helped shape my life as a man. And he opened it up and I looked at it and he the whole thing was all marked up. What color was it marked up? Well, that's the point you give her. We tell this that I didn't want to say that it was marked up in pink marker highlighter. I go, dude, this guy can't be using pink highlighter, but uh. But the fact is, maximize Manhood. And he told me this off, off interview, when we were chatting about different things ahead of time, recalling some of those things, talking about some of the issues the nation's going through today. Yeah, and he said you know, Paul. He said your dad's book and this is 30 years later, whatever it is, and he said that really did. 05:25 He said I was serious when I told your dad this helped shape my life Because, he said, I look back at the principles. He said this has shaped my life as a man. 05:34 - Speaker 2 Isn't that amazing? Yeah, it is amazing. And me being 26, I look at his life and all the accomplishments that he's done. And it's like man God, if I could do half of what this man does and still walk in the level of humility he walks in man. 05:50 - Speaker 1 And, and you know, and that's what brave men is about. It's about being a stalwart man, it's about being resilient, it's about, you know, we all get knocked down, but the but, the brave man, gets back up. Exactly, never quit, never quit, man, and that's the thing. And so, and you've read, maximize Manhood. That's why, when we talk about these resources and these tools see them at CMN man we're not talking about hey, just read a book. We're talking about how to expand and change your life, how to increase your capacity, how to rewire your thinking so that you're thinking with the mindset of Christ. How do you actually walk into the chaos of this world and come out a conqueror on the other side? Go to the next level? Yeah. How do? 06:32 - Speaker 2 you do that. That's the biggest thing. 06:34 - Speaker 1 Yeah, how do you do that? And you do that by the people you're with, exactly Right, your closest friends. Those guys, exactly, those guys, help shape your life. The word of God shapes your life, and then the books you read shape your life. Exactly, it's iron sharpens iron. So when we talk about these books, we talk about all these tools and materials we have, and we just have so much. It's hard to talk about everything from Achieve Lab to events, to the Monday Night Men on YouTube. You know, every Monday night we're on with a different book. We've done Strong Men in Tough Times, never Quit, and we go through these things and all the different things we do, right, working with the NFL, all these things on fatherhood, all this different stuff. It's hard to talk about. How much is there, but it's huge. 07:21 - Speaker 2 It is Right. And the biggest thing, too, is the reality. We're not just doing things, we have walking examples, walking the earth in levels of influence that have committed to applying these things to their lives. 07:35 - Speaker 1 Lives have changed. Yeah, we're in a fight, we're in a war, and Jesus didn't come to write a bestselling book. He came to win a war. Exactly that's why Jesus came. So I want you to hear this with Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, this is one of the greatest men I've ever met in my life. He's here on Brave Men in order to enlarge us, make us stronger and become the man that we desire to be and the man the world needs us to be. Here's Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North on Brave Men needs us to be. Here's Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North on Brave Men. 08:15 It's Brave Men, with Paul Louis Cole, wisdom and courage for the journey. I'm in a conversation with Colonel Oliver North and many of us would know him as a war correspondent with Fox, many of us know him from his television shows and then some of us would probably still remember him as Iran Contra and all of that. It's amazing how you walked into those different areas of your life. In a sense, colonel North, having been prepared. It's as if you, you know, one of the things we talk about at Christian Men's Network is a man doesn't rise to the occasion. He rises or falls to the level of his preparation. And I've watched you over and over and watched you closely, particularly back in the 80s, and then, with the television, watched your life and it's fascinating to me the different aspects of your life. But what a lot of people don't remember, even prior to that, is that you won Purple Heart Bronze Star. 09:18 And one thing I learned from my friends, colonel North, is I mentioned a friend of mine. His name's Hugh. I mentioned him to a friend. I said you know, hugh used to be a Marine Marine and he hit me in the arm. Oh no, oh no, hit me used to. Yeah, he goes. Uh-uh, I'm a Marine, true, once a Marine, always a Marine, exactly. But you, you were in combat and you were 21 years active duty, is that correct? 22,? Yeah, 22 years. And so there's these periods of your life in which it seems like you were ready for that season. How does a man get ready for the different seasons in his life? 10:00 - Speaker 4 Well, good question. First of all, I didn't start out that way. I was raised Roman Catholic. We went to church every Sunday. My brothers and I were all altar boys. But going to church is not knowing Jesus Christ. 10:15 I went off to the war. Look, my mom and dad met at a USO dance in 1941. They were married in 1942. In 1943, I was born in Texas, San Antonio. My dad was already gone to England getting ready for Normandy as an infantry officer. And so the first year and a half of my life I didn't even know I had a dad, Didn't even know you're supposed to have a dad, and and when he came home he was, he was a very, very tough, fair, hard nose guy. Mom was something else. I never heard my mother say that I can recall. Anyway, I can never recall my mother ever saying you wait till your father gets home. You know when you've done something that you've done right. Because she was, she was, he was. I never heard my dad utter a four-letter word, Wow, and died young. He was only 67. Yeah, and in many cases because he got so badly shot up. So I was raised in a way that understood. Okay, you're supposed to go to church, but that personal relationship with Jesus Christ wasn't there. 11:26 - Speaker 1 You were raised with a standard of morality oh, absolutely, but not a deep relationship with Christ, no not at all and so I came back to the second overseas tour. 11:39 - Speaker 4 In the war zone Was heard a couple times pretty badly, and Betsy and I by 1975. 11:51 - Speaker 1 So when you talk war zone, you're talking Vietnam. 11:54 - Speaker 4 Yeah. 11:55 - Speaker 1 Yeah. 11:55 - Speaker 4 Yeah, of which you know there were actually about 3 million Americans that actually saw combat in that war. Wow, it was a different war than my dad was in. It was during Korea. All the males that I knew that I grew up around were veterans of either World War II, korea or both. All of my uncles served in the military and in combat. So that generation, I think, was accurately described as the greatest generation. It was a great influence on me and in combat and so that that generation, I think, was accurately described as the greatest generation. It was a great influence on me and my brothers and I look now at that experience and say that was great, but it wasn't the kind of personal relationship. 12:36 So by 1975, I'm coming back from my second long overseas tour and Betsy's decided you know, you love the Marine Corps more than you love me, I want a divorce. And I'd extended my tour because at the end we're over there. The end of the war is fast approaching and our unit was one of the ones that got sent into Mayaguez, lost a lot of Marines Long and short of it. I extended my tour and thankfully the battalion commander said no, you're going to go home. And so I went home and moved into the bachelor officer's quarters at Quantico Virginia. Our home that we built right outside the base was going to be hers. We were talking to each other through lawyers Wow. 13:21 And my former battalion commander from my first tour overseas lawyers and my former battalion commander from my first tour overseas, when I was a second lieutenant named Dick Schultz, was at the dispensary. I was peeing blood. Divorce was not going to bother me, because if the Marine Corps wanted me to be married, they'd have issued me a wife. And so I went to the dispensary because I's pee and blood and Dick Schultz saw me. He was there getting his. There are no coincidences in my life, yeah, but just by coincidence Dick Schultz was there getting his physical to become promoted to a brigadier general. He looked at me and he said Blue, which was my nickname. The reason for that nickname is we didn't have encrypted radios like we've got nowadays, right, so we call each other. 14:08 If you want somebody to move north, you moved in the blue direction. If you want them to go south, you moved in the gray direction. East, it was silver, west was gold. We kept the same code for 10 years. We wondered why the bad guys were found. So he said blue, you look like crap. I want you to come on in here. And so the doc looked at me and said well, you're going through an enormous amount of stress. Schultz said to me I want you to go see the chaplain here at the base of Quantico. He helped Sally and me, his wife Sally, save our marriage. Wow, I acknowledged what was going on, and so you know, no Marine infantry officer wants to go to a counselor, particularly a chaplain, because everybody's going to know about it, right. 14:57 - Speaker 1 Yeah. 14:57 - Speaker 4 So I go to the chaplain's office on a Friday afternoon at four o'clock because I want to be the last guy make the appointment. I show up, betsy doesn't, and I'm standing there waiting and I can hear the fuzzy-wuzzy stuff going on behind the door. This is at the chapel at Quantico and I'm waiting looking around for something and there's a book that has to be good for Marines. The title of the book was Dare to Discipline. Wow, I fell in thebson, who I'd never heard of. Okay, and I take the book this is serious, Paul and open the book and there in Dobson's book is the description of the locket that he was going to give their daughter when she turned 21. 15:37 And we had two kids at the time our daughter's oldest and then our son and I realized, if we go through this divorce, we won't be a locket for our daughter. 15:47 - Speaker 1 I'll never do that yeah. 15:48 - Speaker 4 Right and it just hit me, and so the end result was after months of counseling, we got back together, wow, and I began starting with a very small little Bible study, started by Oster's Christian Fellowship, that we then took with us to Newport, rhode Island. We took it back down to Camp Lejeune and it's a family Bible study and I came to know Jesus Christ because of that. Wow, it's a very good thing that happened, because in 1981, I got sent to the White House. Yeah, and that's a tough environment, you were counterterrorism. 16:26 - Speaker 1 Coordinator for the National Security Council. Yep. 16:29 - Speaker 4 Yep. 16:31 - Speaker 1 Another fascinating thing and I didn't know this because I was around during all that and what I didn't know is that you actually were targeted. You had a contract put out on you for assassination by Abu Nadal. 16:44 - Speaker 4 Right Islamic Jihad yeah. 16:48 - Speaker 1 This is, this is that's not a, that's not a little lightweight thing. You just don't go, okay? Well, whatever. 16:55 - Speaker 4 Well, I was actually on a trip with the commandant of the Marine Corps. I'd left the White House by then, february 11th 1987, the organization called the People's Committee for Libyan Students. It was the front organization for the Abu Doudal. They sent six of the guys to our house to kill me and Betsy and our kids, and so the FBI warned us. I knew about the mission, because all that was approved by the committee that I ran as a major and then a lieutenant colonel in the Marine Corps from the White House and I had just gotten back. The FBI had already notified Betsy, sent a couple of suburbans out there to pick him up in the middle of the night and about 2 o'clock in the morning the FBI arrested all six of them. Wow Brought him in front of the US attorney in Alexandria, virginia, and Henry Hudson was his name, and he's got them lined up there, six guys it's now four in the morning and they called in a federal judge and they lined up all the weapons. 17:59 They had RPGs this is in Great Falls, virginia. We didn't live in the farm that's his farm at the time. So RPGs, ak-47s, hand grenades, rocket-propelled grenades, an RPD machine gun, makarov pistols all of which they'd gotten out of a self-storage unit and all of which came in diplomatic pouches out of Libya. This is in the aftermath of our attack on Dutsy and at the end of the day, the judge says what can I hold him on? Hudson says your Honor, we can hold him on a Title X violation, attempted assassination of a US government officer. It's a very specific paragraph in the law. Yeah. 18:37 And the weapons charge. He says, well, who's the office, who's the government officer? He said it's a technical, which is a term used in those kinds of cases where you've got top secret information. The technical this was the surveillance that we had on these guys. And the judge says, mr Hudson, we're not going to hold a private, a secret trial at four o'clock in the morning. What's the maximum? I can hold these guys on the weapons charges? Well, $500,000, your Honor, I can hold these guys on the weapons charges. Well, $500,000, your Honor. He says, mr Hudson, who's going to come up with $3 million between now and 9 o'clock in the morning? And he said these guys. And they did. The Libyan government at the time was represented by Yugoslavia. All six guys were out of jail by 8 o'clock and we ended up living with 37 federal agents that protected us until I retired from the Marines. 19:27 - Speaker 1 My goodness. 19:29 - Speaker 4 Yeah, there's a lot of pictures in my first book about those guys who I have enormous admiration for. They're Naval Intelligence, protective Security Detail, same as the Commandant of the Marine Corps, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the Secretary of the Navy Wow, same guys. And unfortunately they did. And our Bible study continued to meet at our house. It was on Thursday nights again in those days and they would come in every day and have to show their ID every time they show up at the house. They actually put a double wide trailer out in their yard to protect us. 20:01 - Speaker 1 And of course, in the hearings later that year and this is even before what ended up being called the Iran-Contra hearings. Right Yep. 20:11 - Speaker 4 So I'd pull up to the gate and Brendan Sullivan, my dear friend and my lawyer, the guy who sat next to me during the hearings that summer constantly would say hey, look, don't run over any of them, because they'd line up across the driveway to get out the gate the now infamous gate and don't hit any of them. And I would do things like you know. A bit of a smartass, colonel. Have you read this morning's headlines in the Washington Post? And the headlines say Oliver North stole Nancy Reagan shoes to feed the Contras, or something like that yeah something, all this baloney, they've never quit. 20:47 - Speaker 1 Oh no, the same kind of headlines. 20:50 - Speaker 4 They were there every single day for nine months. Wow, Every Christmas, Easter, Passover, Lent, Tet, it didn't matter what the religious holiday, they were there 24-7. And so I pull up and pull up the newspaper. See, have you read this headline? This morning I said you know guys, it's an old Kyle Thomas line. You know, guys, I read two things every morning I read that newspaper and hold up in this book. So I know what both sides are up to. 21:16 - Speaker 1 Yeah, Kyle Thomas. Yeah, what a genius you know. So here you've got this background. The Iran-Contra, for those who don't know, was basically you were working with President Reagan. Yeah. And in fact you know, I was actually down there as a reporter in the middle of that whole Sandinista thing. I actually went to Borges' house, oh Tomas. 21:43 - Speaker 4 Borges yeah. 21:46 - Speaker 1 I went to his house in the back of some of they had some cars, in fact they had taken the house from Somoza, sure, and I was in the back of there were a couple Cadillacs and there were these kids with these AK-47s hanging. I mean, kids with AK-47s hanging out the windows, and it's a fascinating story. You know the whole piece and, if you will, the whole thing was. You guys were helping basically try to keep the Communists from taking over Nicaragua. 22:17 - Speaker 4 And the rest of the country, and the rest of the hemisphere. Their motto was a revolution without frontiers. Right, that was their motto. 22:25 - Speaker 1 So, and of course, the end result of all that is, ortega becomes one of the wealthiest men in Central America. 22:32 - Speaker 4 Absolutely. 22:33 - Speaker 1 So, yeah, that's kind of the way those things go, isn't it? 22:35 - Speaker 4 Well, che Guevara was probably a real revolutionary, yeah, but the Castro brothers weren't, I mean. Nonetheless, they take over, che Guevara gets whacked, and that is the pattern of almost every dictatorship in the world. It's fascinating. The Ayatollahs were running the country. They were the only rich people left and around. Yeah, and it's that pattern that's gone on ever since the, I guess, the Soviet revolution of 1917. 23:07 - Speaker 1 Well, that pattern's gone on since Haman. It's patterns gone on since Nebuchadnezzar. It's Proverbs talks about it over and over and over that the lust of a man's heart will actually lead him towards wanting everything for himself. And so if your heart hasn't been regenerated by Christ, through the power of the Holy Spirit, you are of that ilk, if you will, even though there's some very good people we know that keep moral absolutes. But now a lot of people would also know you from television. And now you've started a whole new uh series. Oh, and you've got this incredible book. 23:44 I want to mention this, the rifleman, so, and I want to talk about some other stuff. Sure, but this thing I got into and I mentioned to you just before we started because, um, I got you. I knew you know military, if you're on time, you're late. So I knew you were going to be five minutes early on this zoom call and I and I made sure that I was going to be here ready I'll be there because he'll be early. And I got into the book and I'm reading. I hadn't read the preface, so I went back and I'm reading that. I hadn't read the preface, so I went back and I'm reading that about the stuff that was dropped off, hadn't read it in depth and skimmed it and I thought and all of a sudden I found myself I'm about four minutes over time, because it's a fascinating book. 24:33 Well, you're gonna so I want to recommend this, and they can find this at OliverNorthcom. I think Bluecom would have been interesting. 24:41 - Speaker 4 I never knew that name, it was taken. 24:45 - Speaker 1 Yeah, olivernorthcom, but the Rifleman of course, barnes, noble and Amazon and all those places. 24:52 - Speaker 3 So fantastic book. Now, you've written a series of books, but you also did the War Stories. 25:00 - Speaker 1 You know amazing series and now you've got a whole new series. Is that right, yep, real American Heroes. Tell me about that, and then I want to come back to some of the previous stuff. 25:12 - Speaker 4 Well, Paul, look, I've spent my life all of it in the company of heroes. Heroes exist, all of it in the company of heroes. Heroes exist, of course. Heroes are all over this book. I mean, the ultimate hero is, of course, the one on a cross, and we just two weeks ago celebrated Easter and his resurrection. But I enjoy the company of heroes. I served with heroes in the war myself. I covered heroes for 66 embeds overseas during this long war, working for Fox. And one of the things that upsets me is to see, quite frankly and I'm not aiming this at anybody specific, but as a general pattern what's happened to men in America is too many of them have become very selfish, selfless. The heroes, I mean. The ultimate act of selflessness is to be hung on a cross, tortured to death. I mean this is not just being beheaded like a guillotine. 26:13 - Speaker 1 And forgive those who did it? 26:15 - Speaker 4 Yeah, exactly. While in the midst of it, right, forgive them, father, for they know not what they do. And so I want, I want to be able to instill some of the sense of, of, if you will, enthusiasm or inspiration by heroes by talking about them, by writing about them and by keeping company with them. And so we've started this new series. We're now going into a little bit of a dance because we're now doing it as a podcast, because you can't run all over the country interviewing these guys. I've got a deal worked out with the Carnegie Medal Heroes Fund in which they give us the information on additional members of the very exclusive hero club, if you will, from Andrew Carnegie, and so we're going to go back to that as soon as we're done. We've got a podcast. If you go to OliverNorthcom, you can click right down see the podcast that we're doing. 27:12 - Speaker 1 And the series is on YouTube. Yes, it is. So there's 2 billion people on YouTube now I know two of them. So it's bigger in that sense than any broadcast outlet. It's pretty amazing. So I'm excited about seeing that series by getting into it. I think the easiest way for people to access it would be all over northcom and then just click on the different links. But if I went to YouTube, what would I put into YouTube? 27:46 - Speaker 4 Well, you just click on that link, it takes you directly to all those videos. Okay, yeah, if you go to all over northcom and scroll down and you see where it says and then that far right side of that toolbar. You don't want to do it now because I'll just, given my computer competence, I will. Oh yeah, yeah, don't you do that. Stick around for a moment. No, no, as my kids say, you know, dad, dad suffers from two diseases. He has cultural deficit disorder right, and computer deficit disorder right, and they both got the same initials. 28:21 - Speaker 1 You know, I actually sort of doubt that, but I do think it's fun the way our kids do give us a bad time about certain things. But you've got four children. And how many grandchildren? 18. 18 grandchildren. 28:35 - Speaker 4 So they span college sophomore all the way down to five months. 28:42 - Speaker 1 And you and your wife Betsy have celebrated now just over 50 years of marriage 51. 28:48 - Speaker 4 We celebrated 51 in November 51. 28:50 - Speaker 1 It's amazing, we're just a few years behind you, but I can't say anything. My wife told me this. She said when we hit 50, then you can tell people. She says, but until then they just add up the numbers, and I don't want them to add anything up. 29:03 - Speaker 4 Well, you know, one of our kids was out at the farm over the weekend and you know they've chided me a good bit. Mom, how did you do it? How did you make 51 years with this guy? Her answer was well, he was gone for half of it. Her answer was well, he was gone for half of it. So we've really only been married for 25 years. 29:20 - Speaker 1 So no, that's a good point, because I've been gone that much too, yeah. 29:26 - Speaker 4 Well, in fact, I think, if you added it up, I've probably spent more time with Betsy the last two months than I have the last 20 years. Seriously, I mean, we're with each other 24-7. I'm now in my office, but she's just minutes from me and being able to watch what's happening in the world. Today we took a walk down by the river. We're right on the Shenandoah River. I moved way, I married way up. 29:53 - Speaker 1 Yeah. 29:58 - Speaker 4 And so her cows are calving, the eagles are nesting and there's hatchlings. You can see the cormorants, which are very rare birds. Cormorants are right there, on perched on a log over the river, because they're looking for fish, because they're fishing birds oh, yeah, right so all of that's happening, the fox that that Casey chased the other day, all those kinds of things, because it's springtime. 30:19 - Speaker 1 Yeah, it's fantastic. 30:20 - Speaker 4 I get so darn frustrated when I see people doing nothing but bad-mouthing one another. 30:25 - Speaker 1 Yeah. 30:27 - Speaker 4 They're chronically depressed. So be inspired, and so I'm using these heroes as an opportunity to inspire people to be better than they otherwise might be. 30:36 - Speaker 1 Yeah, you know the story about you know you said you married up. There's a joke in Brazil and we have a couple thousand churches using the Maximized Manhood curriculum in Brazil. But the joke there, colonel North, is a man will look at your phone or photo and look at your wife and say, oh, I see you're a man of prayer. And look at your wife and say, oh, I see you're a man of prayer. And then the t'omp is but I guess your wife is not a woman of prayer Because she married you or me? 31:08 - Speaker 4 yeah, Blessed you. 31:10 - Speaker 1 So where did you guys meet? Where did? 31:15 - Speaker 4 you and your wife meet, colonel, we met. My wife graduated from Penn State in 1967. I didn't graduate from Naval Academy until 68. I'm a year older than she is but she was a business major. She took over as a retail sales manager in a Hecht Company store in Maryland. Hecht Company used to be a big chain. It's gone. Now she's, like a lot of others, brick and mortar. 31:35 And my cousin worked for her and the young woman with whom I had been engaged before planning to get married right after the naval academy had sent the ring back and she actually married one of her college professors. So she's working on her master's degree, wow and. And she sent the ring back and I decided at that point from rink where I wanted to have a wife, they'll issue me one. Right the whole line. And my cousin kept saying I'm working for this absolutely gorgeous, drop-dead person. And my cousin was going to University of Maryland, right down the road from where Betsy's going to work, and she convinced me. Well, actually my brother convinced me because my brother was getting ready to go off to the war, a little brother and our cousin was telling about this drop-dead gorgeous woman that she worked for and Jack said to me. He said I'm leaving for the war here in a week. He's in the 82nd Airborne Division with jump boots and all that stuff, right, he's all at Ranger School and he's in his uniform. He said if you're not going to go meet this girl, I will. I said, well, I'll take it. 32:42 So the two of us drove over to montgomery mall in maryland and we're getting on the escalator to go up to where our cousin had said she'd be, and jack goes like this. He says I don't know what this betsy looks like, anything like that gal with the long legs remember this is 1968? Yeah, right, okay, so miniskirts were in vogue, anything like that one of the long legs up there, that blonde, I'll date her. Well, it was her, and the only thing that saved me was he got sent off to the war and I stayed for another year and we decided we'd get married. I was a student at our basic course at Quantico, knew I was going to go to the war. We got married the day I graduated from basic course as a bright-eyed, bushy-tailed second lieutenant. Butter cars, all in the Marines, and we started a month-long honeymoon driving a Marine colonel's car from Washington DC out to California, san Diego. 33:40 - Speaker 1 Really. 33:41 - Speaker 4 In those days you were supposed to have the bill but needed the car, would pay for gas and hotel rooms and the like. Yeah, and so he gave us. I think it was $500. It was 1968. We start driving. In those days we didn't have these cell phone things, we didn't have these right. So you had to leave a leave address and it was my dad, retired US Army colonel, and so I called home from Texas. We were 13 days into our honeymoon and dad said I'm terribly sorry to tell you this, but I got a telegram for you. You have to be in San Diego in 72 hours. Wow. 34:21 So the two of us on our honeymoon team drove all the way across the rest of America. She put me on a plane. I think it was the day before Thanksgiving we celebrated. I celebrated Thanksgiving in Vietnam, and she got on a flight and came back home. 34:32 - Speaker 1 So, if you will, that was prescient for the rest of your lives. The fact that you had to hurry to get to a flight. 34:39 - Speaker 4 Yeah, well, we at least had. We did have four kids and she raised them right. Yeah, she raised them the way that they needed to be raised. She did them all. You know you carry a baby for nine months you know I didn't think much about that at the time. 34:58 As a consequence of all that counseling that we had, I came to have enormous admiration for her and I was surrounded by Christian friends who led me on the path. 35:12 I've said, in the presence of the guy that was the greatest influence in my spiritual life, john Grinnells, lieutenant Colonel of the United States Marine Corps. 35:20 At the time I was at headquarters Marine Corps and John Grinnells was a graduate of West Point, not Annapolis road scholar, white House fellow, mba from Harvard, and I used to catch him periodically because he and I were assigned to a special branch at headquarters Marine Corps. It was a partition separated the two of us and I could look over and I would catch him on government time reading from this Bible, right, right, he'd finished whatever work he had to do at that point and he was taking some just meditating reading a few words of the book. And so when he asked me, he said I want you to be my operations officer in a deploying battalion we're going to leave in February Our kids were still in school up here and I accepted because I knew he was going to be a general someday, not because, in fact, I was willing to overlook the fact that behind his back, people would call him a Bible thumper yeah, but I'll overlook that he's West Point and a Bible thumper yeah, because we're getting ready Like a true Marine. 36:29 - Speaker 2 Yeah right, this is Chris. Let me take a moment right in the middle of this great conversation to remind you how to get in touch with Paul and Christian Men's Network and the Global Fatherhood Initiative. You can find all the resources for mentoring and fatherhood at cmnmen. That's cmnmen. Christian Men's Network does special events across America and around the world. You can find all the information at cmnmen Click on events. We also have tremendous resources for churches and special discounts for groups on that website. Everything a church needs, from A to Z, to mentor and disciple men of all ages and backgrounds. Now let's get back to this powerful interview between Paul and Oliver North. 37:14 - Speaker 4 So, as we're getting ready to deploy literally the day of deployment on the pier at Moorhead City, north Carolina, five amphibious ships lined up. We're going to head to Europe, become the landing force for the Sixth Fleet. It's a very dangerous mission. We lost 11 Marines on that deployment. Wow, it was our sister battalion that got blown up in Beirut. Yeah, so the 8th Marine Regiment carried the same Marine Expeditionary Unit that rescued Scott O'Grady also a believer, by the way. 37:42 So on the pier, john hands me, instead of a set of orders, the entire Marines unit. All 1,800 of us are lined up on the pier. It's 4 o'clock in the morning, because the Marine Corps never goes anywhere in daylight. All these heavyweights from Washington DC have come down the division commanders there, and behind the chain link fence are the wives and sweethearts and the kids saying goodbye to their loved ones. And on the other side, wave, john Grylls hands me a copy. It's not this copy. The copy he gave me is in tattered pieces beside my bed. Wow, he says here, major, on our way across the Atlantic, read this you have got to come to know your Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Wow, now, nowadays you can be prosecuted for that. Yeah, you cannot proselytize from a senior to a subordinate. The sergeant can tell the lieutenant that, but the lieutenant can't tell the sergeant. 38:35 Right, right and so on the way across, I started this book. Remember I went to church when we were kids, right, didn't go a whole lot. I saw some great chaplains and I saw some bad ones in my days in combat. I started at the beginning, genesis. I wonder who he is and I. As we pulled in into the Mediterranean it's a 12-day trip I've gotten, I almost quit Leviticus, yeah, okay, so. But as we're pulling in the Mediterranean, I've got to the first of the Gospels and there is Matthew writing in chapter 8. Okay, 5 through 13,. 39:19 He describes something I understand. It's a Roman infantry officer, a centurion, in a place called Capernaum, and Jesus is there teaching. And here comes the centurion who's the martial law in the Galilee. Yeah, and I've led groups out there now for 20 years, betsy and I have led them out there. And that's my favorite spot. It's not the stuff in Jerusalem that's all built up, it's that spot right there. And now, as you know, because you've led groups out there too, Paul, the steps of that synagogue have now been excavated by the archaeologists out there. 39:58 - Speaker 1 Well, that's where he moved when he started his ministry. 40:01 - Speaker 4 Exactly. So, in fact the reason he moved out there is his cousin John had just been beheaded right and he goes out to Galilee and begins his three years of ministry. So the Roman army infantry officer is walking down. He says hey, and of course everybody's got to be very cautious because you never know. As Josephus writes, Jesus Christ is being watched by the officials of the high priest and by the Romans. 40:26 - Speaker 1 Oh, this is terrorist occupation, exactly, yeah, it's exactly what the Roman occupation was. Yeah, in fact, that's why, luke, you know, colonel North I mention the guys all the time you were made for a time like this, the season we're in now, because Jesus was born in the middle of terrorist occupation. His dad had to take him for four years to escape to Egypt Egypt, yeah. And then the Magi started by Daniel, you know, 800 years before. Bring the money for that to happen. Then he goes back to Nazareth to start his own business. God is a strategic. 41:02 - Speaker 4 God, well as I say, there's no coincidences, no, there's a plan. It's not yours or mine. 41:10 - Speaker 1 Yeah, we were made for times like this. 41:12 - Speaker 4 I'm reading about this Roman infantry officer who comes down and says I've got a sick servant at home yeah, what do you think? And Jesus says, yeah, let's go. He says, no, no, lord, I'm a person of authority. I can tell people to come and they come. I can tell people to go and they go. I know what authority is. You have the authority. I'm not worthy. You should come into my quarters at the top of the hill over Capernaum. 41:35 - Speaker 1 All the Roman homes. 41:37 - Speaker 4 And Jesus says you're right, go, it's done as you ask. And we know it's true because every word in this book is true, right, right. And then Jesus turns to the 12. And it's in Matthew and Luke same way Turns to the 12 and he says greater faith than that in all Israel I have not seen. Yeah, why does he say that? Because A Jesus knows what's going to happen, he knows the plan, he knows what's going to happen to him and the Roman infantry officers just put his life at risk. 42:07 Because the penalty? What is Jesus executed for the crime of treason, right, king of Jews, right, anybody who consorts. This is Roman law. If you consort with a traitor, you are subject to the same sanction, and the Roman infantry officer knows that. So this captain of infantry in the Roman army has just put his life at risk. For what? In the translation I've got one of the translations Luke says it's not a servant, it's a slave. 42:34 So he has put his life at risk for the benefit of a servant, at least a subordinate for certain, and probably a slave. And why? For the benefit of a servant, at least a subordinate for certain, and probably a slave. Yeah, and why Not? For a promotion, not for a pay raise. He did it because he cared more about that servant than he cared about himself. John Grimmels had put his career at risk for me by telling me in the presence of dozens of other people in the middle of the night here, read this book, you've got to come. Wow. So my transformation occurs as the USS Austin is sailing across the Straits of Gibraltar into the Mediterranean and I realized John Reynolds put himself at risk for me, put his career at risk. He could be executed, like the Roman soldier would have been, but the fact that that occurred where it was and when it was, changed my life forever. I was 35 years old and that's how I came to know your dad. Wow, as a consequence of that, yeah. 43:32 And so I have mistakenly, I have said to some John Grinnell's led me to the Lord. John heard me say that at a prayer breakfast in Charleston. By the way, I was right about something. He did become a Marine general, retired with two stars, became the headmaster of a boys' school called Woodbury Forest in Virginia, then the president of the Citadel, and John Grinnell's has been an example. It wouldn't have mattered what John Grinnell said. He acted like, he behaved as a man who knew Jesus, and that's the kind of people you and I need to be around. Yeah, and what did he correct you with? He corrected me by saying I couldn't lead you to the Lord. You have to make that decision. I can show you the path that I took. Right, I can show you the path that I took, but you have to make that decision. And now, after what? 40 years of studying this book and your dad, I've concluded Paul, that one coming to know Jesus Christ is a great thing. 44:41 Better yet, when I get there, I know what's going to happen. It could happen on my way home today. I could run over by an 18-wheeler. I know where I'm going and I know why I'm going there. 44:51 But, when I get there, there's going to be a large crowd gathered out in front and say throw that SOB into hell. He's killed people, he's done terrible things, he didn't get along with his wife for years and you're going to let him in and Jesus Christ is going to sit there and say I would that those who are mine be with me where I am, for my greater glory. Wow See. 45:16 - Speaker 1 And so I know his name Better, yet he knows mine, yeah. So that courage of him doing that, the courage of Matthew 8, the centurion, so let me just speak to that quickly. Isaiah, the third chapter, says, first couple verses, God's correcting Israel again. The first covenant, the Old Testament, if you will, is a picture of God trying to bring a group of people to a place of maturity, which is his desire for every single man. And in this particular setting, Isaiah 3, he's again. They think they're strong enough on their own, they feel like they can do what they want to do. He says, okay, you think you're all bad, I'm going to take from you. And he describes himself. He says your support, your bread and your water, which basically the support of the Father, the bread being Jesus, the water, the Holy Spirit. But then he says there's two people. When I take them out of the culture, the culture will begin to tip over. And he says, and here's the first two people. He says I will take from you the hero and the warrior. 46:17 Every great culture, Curl North, is built on the character of its heroes and the courage of its warriors. The character of its heroes and the courage of its warriors. True of every great culture, true of every great family and true of every great church. So I thank God that you know I've watched you over the years. I watched you in the Iran-Contra hearings. I watched you in different aspects of your life the courage to stand up and speak with love, not putting people down, not condemnatory, but speak very openly and quite often to your own hurt, of your faith in Jesus Christ, often to your own hurt of your faith in Jesus Christ. And perhaps courage is one of the things that when we talk about manhood or masculinity in North America or the Western culture right now, perhaps that's one of the things that expedience has taken over for courage and men have continued to be immature. That's why when you talk about my dad, when he wrote Maximize Manhood, it was a call to be immature. That's why when you talk about my dad. 47:27 - Speaker 4 When he wrote Maximize Manhood. It was a call to be a courageous man. Well, he had a great influence on me. You know, when you're young, when you're brand new to coming to know that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior, not just this ancient figure, we're always a little unsteady. I mean the very first time. This is the only book I've ever read from cover to cover more than once. I appreciate you reading this book, but this is even better. And, by the way, just not to parlay this the wrong way one of the things that most people don't understand because of the misery of our own educational system is these guys weren't deists, these guys weren't just guys who understood providence. Yeah. 48:08 Every one of them that are in this book came to know Jesus Christ as the Lord and Savior. 48:14 - Speaker 1 Because the setting and I didn't set it up, the setting, I just said it was awesome, but the setting is the Revolutionary War, yeah, and a great epidemic called smallpox yeah and yeah, a viral epidemic fascinating, and uh, and you track a man named daniel morgan, an actual figure. Uh, through this. It is a fascinating book. I'm not through with it yet but his. 48:39 - Speaker 4 Yet Morgan's wife taught him to read and write because he was totally uneducated. Again, this book, yeah, okay, and they lived together and had two children before they were married, which was not uncommon in those days. Right, and it's a pastor that becomes just like. My good friend Jerry Boykin describes them as the Black Road regiments. But there were a lot of pastors like Peter Gabriel Muhlenberg and Reverend Thurston, who was a big influence on Morgan. All those guys in those days knew exactly who Jesus Christ was. 49:19 They didn't hesitate to pray to him. Every family that lost someone had a memorial service or a funeral if they could find the bodies and bring them back. Most of the guys who died of smallpox on the I don't want to give away the end of the book, but most of the guys Spoiler alert hashtag spoiler alert Never got to see their loved ones again, and so I look at what's going on in our country today and I get these people talking about I'm so anxious, I'm so I know the end of the story. You know the end of the story. Yeah. 49:50 There's no fear. I mean use common sense when we're required to. I wear a mask out there, I go into Costco or whatever. I wear blue gloves. Yeah, I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid. Yeah, I look at. I look at those kinds of things and I see people in the media going, oh, this is the worst thing that's ever happened. I'm so anxious, I'm so concerned. Why is it all about temporal things? Is it all about the fact that? I mean one of the things that Betsy and I've managed to do is Alistair Begg is on at nine o'clock at night. I'm now home, right, I don't think we've missed a single one of his sermons. I look at those things as these are wonderful opportunities. How many times do you and I meet people who look at obstacles in front of them and they're really opportunities that the good Lord has put in front of them? 50:44 - Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly you know. A great friend of mine said a number of years ago. He said you know, if the road of life you're on has no obstacles, you're on the wrong road. 50:55 - Speaker 4 That's exactly right. 50:58 - Speaker 1 And you've had your share. You mentioned maximized manhood and the Lord had used that in your life, and when you got your first copy, it was actually one I gave to a mutual friend, dwayne Ward, and he gave it to you, and it was during those hearings in the 80s, long hot summer. 51:18 Yeah, yeah. It's amazing how just a little thing can touch somebody. I tell guys now if you'll just text somebody or just give them a call there's. You know, brotherhood is so important. I think it's. I think it's the key. I think it's what Jesus modeled more than anything else, absolutely. Um, in fact, most of his miracles were done either in the farmer's market or one of his friend's houses, yeah, and they weren't just done in a church building. 51:46 I think this is one of the things that we're finding through this current crisis we're in right now in this stay-in-place order. Stephen Mansfield and I were talking the other day about the fact that the stay-in-place order is antithetical to a man's nature. We're solution-oriented, which is why we don't do well in conversations with our wives, because we got it solved 10 seconds in. It's not the point of the conversation, anyway, but stay in place is such an issue. And so what's happened in our culture, if you will, in this era that we're in right now? You know the 25 to 35% spike in domestic violence reports in one locale on the East Coast is 300% more phone calls coming. In France, 36% spike. They're building 20 pop-up centers for trauma to help women and children. And for me, the stay-in-place orders have become a stay-in-hell order for too many children and women. 52:50 And when you look at and you mentioned it right in the front of our conversation the immaturity of men in our culture and I don't believe, colonel North, you know it's sort of like. 53:03 You know you went to Naval Academy, you went through Quantico, you did all those things, but what that did, it wasn't just about learning techniques, it was actually energizing something that was deep within you that God had placed in there, which is God has placed in every single man is to become the man that God made him to be, like Joshua, with a man filled with courage, and I think that that's to me, that's where we, as fathers in the faith and we as the church, need to help men find that place that they were made to fill. I think that's where we're at right now in our culture, and I thank God for you, colonel North, and the things you're writing, things you've done, you know, and all of those making up to where you are today to be able to speak with alacrity and clarity and with a cogent voice of of truth that's unequivocal. In other words, when you say things, what I appreciate about it is. We're not looking for a hidden meaning. 54:09 - Speaker 4 Very quick story. Just before all the shutdown and everything, I was on a flight I think to I might have been coming to Houston. 54:18 - Speaker 1 Yeah. 54:19 - Speaker 4 Flight out of Dallas and I'm preparing my remarks on my computer and I've got this book open on my lap. The woman across the aisle from me is watching me and I'm typing away. And then I open the book up and she looks over at me and she says and I'm in first class, I mean I've got two million miles on this silly airline, yeah. And so she looks over at me and says you don't believe that crap, do you? I said, excuse me. She says what are you writing? I said well, I'm actually writing my remarks that I'm going to give tonight at a pro-life dinner. It was. And she said that's just crap. I said, excuse me. What do you do? She said I teach philosophy at Hobart College. I have a PhD. I said do you really? You must be really smart to have a PhD. So maybe you can help me right here, because I live on a farm. 55:08 On our farm there are lots of deer running around. Number two there's cows and number three there's horses. What do they eat? She said well, grass. I said exactly. But they consume it differently, because when a deer poops, it's little tiny marbles, when a horse poops, it's golf balls, and when a cow poops, it's a big splat. Why? Why? She said well, I don't know why. I said you're telling me I shouldn't believe what I'm reading in this book and you don't know crap. Are you kidding me? You're telling me I shouldn't believe what I'm reading in this book and you don't know crap. Are you kidding me? So okay, so I tell my kids the story and the kid and we're you know when we have everybody. This is again before the, before the virus caught up to everybody. Yeah. 55:52 And so we've got all 18 grandkids. The adults are gathered around the kitchen table, right, so there's 10 of us, are four kids, betsy and me. The 18 grandkids are either asleep and it's after, you know, maybe it's a birthday party. And so we're going around the table and dad, granddad, gets to play a game. So the game tonight is what's the most fun you've ever had? And so Martin, our jock son-in-law, is climbing Mount Everest. I'm making up the place, but he's a jock and he's a jock doc. 56:24 And our sense is when I took the kids down to Disney World and they go around the table, and he gets back to me and says, dad, what's the most fun you've ever had? This proves all the filters are gone what's the most fun I've ever had? Your mother, oh my God, dad, how can you say such a thing? I said read the last here, let me. Where's page 268? Hold on, no, no, you know what that's in this book too, by the way. Right, okay, so this is my acknowledgement Page 269. Most importantly, thank you, betsy. Mother of our four children, grandmother of our 18 grandchildren, for more than a half century you've been my mate, my muse, my most fervent advocate, my greatest inspiration and my best friend, you are still the most fun I've ever had. I love it, but you know. But he wants us to love our wives. Love it, but you know, but he wants us to love our wives. 57:24 - Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely man. That's why he he created dopamine. 57:28 - Speaker 4 Exactly. 57:29 - Speaker 1 Then, and then the and the enemy, you know, filtrates that negatively for guys and messes up their lives, and and and then he created oxytocin, it's called the compadre drug, which is I love because it's it's hanging out with guys like you, which is why I love it. Um, you know, there are two things about that. One, the bible has given me a greater degree of love for pomegranates, so there's that. And then, uh, secondly, I always, I always. When you said my best friend, you know it's probably true. But when a lot of guys say I married my best friend and I'm going dude, you know I did not marry my best friend, I married the sexiest girl I ever met. Yeah, because I never thought like this about my best friend. 58:18 - Speaker 4 Well, I'll give you this. I never thought about sleeping with a grandmother before either. 58:21 - Speaker 1 Exactly, hey, colonel North, thank you for taking the time, man, it is great to catch up with you again and so admire the things that the Lord has done through your life. 58:33 And I appreciate let me put it this way also I appreciate the pain, the hits that you've taken. The 37 men are surrounding your house to protect you, for you and your wife Betsy, for the times of prayer, for the times of angst, for the times of anxiety, for the times that you've walked through in order to be able to share the gospel and minister in such a way as you are now. And this new channel on YouTube you can find that all over northcom and this new channel, man. You can find that all over northcom and this new channel man. I'm just behind that 100%. You know the Psalms says I will bring the godly of the land to my home, and what that means is I want my children and I want their children to have heroes and men who have stood and men who have finished strong, and so I celebrate that in you. So thank you for that and it's great to meet you again. I hope our paths cross again very soon. 59:32 - Speaker 4 Well, they will, they will, and we know where we're going, so we'll see each other there. 59:39 - Speaker 1 Actually, I was thinking about this side, Colonel. 59:41 - Speaker 4 North. I'm ready, willing and able. I mean that I admire what you're doing. Not only have you carried your dad's legacy, but you think of the numbers of people who we're going to meet when we get there. We're going to say you know, I was watching you, or I heard you and it changed my life. Because it's not just your words or the, or the imagery, or the words that I've written, or or it's how we behaved that inspired people to. That's exactly. I'd like to do that too yeah, see too often. 01:00:16 - Speaker 1 I really admire too often men will tell you and they'll tell me hey, you know, you know I can't really be in the ministry, I run this welding business. Yeah, you know, and it's like you being embedded 60, over 60 times in Iraq and Afghanistan and you're doing a job. And yet the way you carried yourself, the words you use, the character, the honor, the things you carry in, you touch people around you. John Eldridge told me the other day we were talking about how we influence people and he said you influence at minimum 87,000 other people in your life. He said, even if you don't go outside, much Fascinating. So for me, every single place that we're called to serve, we are the light that people see in order to see Jesus, and everything we do is ministry because we are carriers the Bible says, ambassadors of reconciliation, reconciling men to Christ. 01:01:21 - Speaker 4 Well done, brother. 01:01:21 - Speaker 1 Yeah, so hey, we pray. Every place you put your feet will be holy ground and everything you put your hands to will prosper, and the Lord will keep you and your wife, your children and your grandchildren deep inside the grip of his favor In Jesus' name, amen, amen, God bless you, brother, thank you. Thank you for that. 01:01:42 - Speaker 2 Paul. After looking at this man's life, I think powerful is an understatement. 01:01:46 - Speaker 1 Yeah, that might be an understatement. He's an amazing man, you know. What I love about it, though, is is that you know the way he presents himself, Chris, and the way he talked about the word of God, and he held that huge Bible up, and you can see it on the video, which is on our YouTube channel, Christian Men's Network, Youtube, and you can see the video he holds, because he talks about it and we listen to it on the podcast, but you can see he holds a big Bible, it's all marked up and stuff. You know, the thing is, when you see that, Chris, you go, ok, this is attainable, yeah, in other words, you don't have to be a superhero. He wasn't born with some sort of different set of chromosomes than any of us. No, you know what he did, though, is he applied himself Exactly? 01:02:26 - Speaker 2 And you saying that specific word makes me think of John 1.1. In the beginning was the Word. The Word was God and the Word was with. Yes, you got it. No, it's the Bible, you're good, and the Word was with us. Yes, you got it. No, it's the bible, you're good, and the word was with us. 01:02:43 - Speaker 1 yeah, you're all messed up, okay well, don't get afraid, there's five million people who listen to you exactly. But it's okay because it's at the close of the program yes, but at the same time I was always raised to. 01:02:53 - Speaker 2 If you're gonna quote it, quote it right, quote it right yeah but at the same time you know what I'm referencing John 1. Yes, right, and the fact that always stood out to me is John 1, 14. And the word became flesh and dwelt among us. Yeah, you see what I'm saying? Yeah, and it's not, it's the reality of us taking, like you were saying, Oliver North holding the Bible. Yeah, but he took that word and allowed it to become who he is. 01:03:15 - Speaker 1 Yeah, every thought that he his actions his words. 01:03:19 - Speaker 2 every reality of what he was encountering in that word became what he determined to live his lifestyle like, and that's what we need. We need men that will apply the words and say you know what? This might not be my opinion, but God's opinion reigns higher than my opinion. 01:03:36 - Speaker 1 No, kidding man. First Corinthians 16, 13, says be focused as a man, be committed, be determined and be relentless. Focus, committed, determined, relentless and that's what we have to be and that's who he is. And man this stirs me up, guys like that, I'm like, okay, you know, I just did a couple times this year, I've read through the whole New Testament in 30 days. You know, did a challenge with YouVersion, which we support. And you know, just doing that, you're just like, okay, I'm going to have to apply myself Exactly and I think we need to do that. Chris, I think we need to put obstacles up. Dan Crenshaw, in his great book Fortitude, said we live in a world of comfort and most people don't have resilience because they've never had to have it. Yeah, exactly, you know everything's there. You go to the store, everything's there. 01:04:27 - Speaker 2 You don't have to go kill anything Exactly. But I mean, even like you, one of the first things you told me when I started working with you was the reality of Chris. How much are you willing to sacrifice for your dream to come true? Yeah, you know, and it's like that's the reality. It's like are you disciplined enough to do whatever it takes to make the reality of what's truly in you to come to fruition? Yeah, you see what I mean, and oftentimes, especially people my age, 26 years old or younger, are not willing to give that blood, sweat and tears to see their dream, Because that's what's going to have to. 01:04:58 - Speaker 1 That's what has to happen Exactly. You have to actually work at it, dude. Life does not give you participation trophies it doesn't. And that's why our world shouldn't either, but that's a whole other story. 01:05:11 - Speaker 3 The only participation trophy you're going to get is a headstone man. 01:05:14 - Speaker 1 Exactly With everybody else. Yep, he was alive. Exactly. But the fact is, what you do in life becomes history, what you put into motion becomes your legacy. 01:05:20 - Speaker 2 Exactly so good. 01:05:21 - Speaker 1 And that's what you and I want to do is leave footprints. Exactly, and that's what Brave Men is about. Yes, and I want to thank you, Chris, for producing this and putting together some of the great interviews that we've had. We've got some incredible ones coming up, and what is it that we need everybody to do? We need them to go on and subscribe. 01:05:39 - Speaker 2 So we need them to subscribe Right and if you see it on Facebook, like it and share. 01:05:44 - Speaker 1 Like it and share, but we also need you to write a review. 01:05:47 - Speaker 2 Tell us about how this has impacted your life and you're not going to, just you know, sit there and not get a response. If you write to us, we will intentionally go out and respond to you. 01:05:59 - Speaker 1 Okay, you know we need you to write a review, share it and uh, and then click subscribe. Yes, Because the more subscribers we have, then what happens is Apple and I heart and all these people. They put us in a different tier, Exactly Of you know, and we're cracking the top 100. 01:06:17 - Speaker 2 Yeah, and the more people that subscribe, the more people will hear about you. Know what God is doing through these mighty men of God. 01:06:23 - Speaker 1 Yeah, no kidding and through Christian Men's Network. So cmnmen is the website. Cmnmen, that's Christian Men's Network. Don't go to CNN. No, we want the good news. Yeah, we want the good news. Not the bad news, cmnmen and get resources for mentoring men, resources and tools for becoming better men for fatherhood. Global fatherhood initiative is kicking off. Yes, All kinds of stuff going on and it all comes together. At cmnmen you can find all the resources Achieve Lab over 500 hours of curated videos. Yes, Right, yes, All kinds of stuff. 01:06:57 - Speaker 2 Incredible things, hey thank you, and it's CMN Radio too. Don't forget about it. 01:07:01 - Speaker 1 See him in radio too. Yeah, so that's on Alexa. Yeah, I was telling somebody about it the other day. I was on the phone. I go yeah, it's on Alexa, and the Alexa machine in my it's always listening to me. It goes yes, hello, no, no, no. 01:07:16 - Speaker 2 Not, not now. 01:07:17 - Speaker 1 Yeah, homeland Security is in there. Listening to me, All right, man. Hey, thank you for being with us today on Brave Men. It really is a blessing that you would take time to be with us, and I'm so thankful to Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North and his family, Betsy, and we pray blessings on them, as we did during the interview. But we thank God for them and men like that and men like you who are willing to listen, do something about it, stand up, be counted for righteousness and win the battle. Thank you for being a part of Brave Men. Remember hope is alive. Hope has a name. Hope's name is Jesus. 01:07:57 - Speaker 3 You've just experienced Brave Men with Paul Louis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian Men's Network. Connect with Paul at https://CMN.men or write to him at Paul@cmn.men.