Hope for Leaders with Michael Murphy & Brandon Cole

00:00 - Speaker 1
I actually think joy is the resting state of every freed-up Christian. Yeah, like it shouldn't be unusual. And again, I'm not talking about personality, I'm talking about just someone who is in love with Jesus, overflowing with His kindness. Yeah, why would you be in misery, guts?

00:20 - Speaker 3
Yeah, you know, it's not saying that everything's always been good, always been great. Yeah, it's not saying that everything's always been good, always been great, but I think joy is a barometer for the life of a spiritual person.

00:30 - Speaker 4
Honestly, Hi, this is the Brave Men Podcast and I am Paul Lewis Cole. Or, wait a minute, I think I'm supposed to say, hey, this is Paul Louis Cole and you're listening to the Brave Men Podcast. Either way, you're here and I'm glad you're here, always honored when you show up and when we have time together. Today is really a very special podcast. It's an interview and conversation, actually, or maybe a confrontation. Both these men have strong ideas and great and deep wisdom. One is Michael R Murphy, because that's what you have to look up when you're going to follow on Instagram, mike Murphy and the other is Brandon Cole, my son. So it's Brandon, underscore Cole, c-o-l-e. And then Michael R Murphy to follow on, follow on instagram, social media, that kind of stuff. Hey, mike wrote a book called accelerate except it's xlr8, xlr8bookcom. Anyway, great book and uh, mike is. Mike is one of the leading, if not the leading, coach equipers of pastors and leaders, and particularly pastors building local churches around the world. He has a ministry called the Leaderscape, and Leaderscape is one of these remarkable organizations of coaches around the world that help pastors grow their own lives, which then, in turn, grows local churches, which is what it's about. I mean, it is really about building community and that's what Brandon Cole is so good at building community. He just had a men's retreat. I went on part of it, in and out of traveling different places, and it was awesome. It was tremendous. And then to get these two guys together at the same time and they did this conversation while I was in Indonesia. So all of this we have a lot going on at Christian Men's Network and it is remarkable. Go to cmnmen and there should be some updates. Also, you can follow me at Paul Lewis Cole it's L-O-U-I-S in the middle name and paullewiscolecom paullewiscole on social medias and cmnmen for the website. Get discipleship tools that you need to disciple your family, your son's daughters. It'll help you in parenting. And also majoringinmencom. Majoringinmencom is a website that has 12 part, 20 minutes each, how to build a ministry to men in the local church. It's awesome.

03:23
What I love about and then also producing this podcast, is my son, bryce, and that is that's just awesome, because here's Bryce producing a podcast with Mike Murphy, longtime great friend. I first met Mike. He was associate pastor of a key church and in fact, a growing church became one of the largest in the world there in Sydney, australia, and Mike had been accepted Christ there and became mentored there and then pastored a church in the Shire and Bryce. My son actually lived there with a member of the church and then was part of the worship team youth, all that kind of stuff or not youth, young adults, whatever it was. Anyway, it was awesome and Mike and Val Murphy are just great friends and they're family all the children and we've known each other for years and to watch him become this leading coach, encourager, instructor he just loves church and he loves community and he loves what it means to follow Jesus Christ with reckless abandon, to be a passionate follower of Christ and then to sit under my son Brandon's teaching about once every three weeks because I'm traveling so much with Christian Men's Network and to hear the wisdom that comes out. The conversation between these two men is just remarkable, and so I'm thrilled that they're on Brave Men Podcast today and to have you here be a part of this really means a lot. It would also really help us if you would go wherever you're at on Spotify or Apple or any other place and hit the subscribe button. What that does is it changes those darn algorithms and makes it so that we get in front of more people. So follow that.

05:30
You know we have, like I said, we have a lot going on, but the main thing is this to help men become followers of Christ with passion, to know him, to be known, to know him, to be known and to have a hope and a center in their life in which they say I trust, check this out, I trust the providence of God.

05:55
In other words, I trust that when God said when God said I will pour out my spirit on all flesh, it says in the book of Acts, I will pour out my spirit on all flesh that says in the book of Acts, I will pour out my spirit on all flesh, that he actually means it. That when he said the earth will be redeemed, that Jesus Christ returns and his kingdom is established, that all that comes to pass, I trust and we believe in the providence of God that his word will come true. So everything we do is towards that end and to expand the kingdom. How? By men and women becoming followers of Christ. And our focus is that we would raise up strong men and strong families, strong churches. So I'm fired up about this. I thank God for my sons. I've got three sons son-in-law, niles Bryce Brandon and then our great, great friend Michael Murphy. Here's that remarkable conversation today on Brave Men.

07:03 - Speaker 3
Well, mike Murphy, welcome. It's so good to be here. Glad you're here With family absolutely. I know you were thinking you'd get to look at my dad on this side of the table, but I think you're okay with this oh, totally, totally, Way.

07:16 - Speaker 1
Better looking than your dad and, as you were saying to me, you're a lot smarter than your dad too.

07:22 - Speaker 2
I did say that he's in Egypt so it'll be a while before he can do anything about it.

07:27 - Speaker 3
And even more days till he sees the clip.

07:29 - Speaker 1
But he's in.

07:29 - Speaker 3
Egypt doing men's ministry and cranking. He's always somewhere, right, yeah, and so are you. You're here, yep.

07:35 - Speaker 1
Just flew in this morning.

07:36 - Speaker 3
Yeah, you were at a conference, church conference, and that lead pastors consult all those kinds of things. Yeah, it's an absolute privilege too, and, as a way of introduction, you have been part of our life for a long time.

07:51 - Speaker 1
I've known you since you were a little fella Shorts and long socks. I was six or seven years old, something like that. Well, it's coming back and forth.

07:58 - Speaker 3
Bryce wore the long socks no-transcript network and you've been in this, tied into this. We're here.

08:17 - Speaker 1
We get to see you every year at line. Yeah, yeah, you're stuck with me, man. Yeah, I'm uh, I'm uh. I don't know whether you know this. I'm in the inheritance, you know? Oh, I didn't know that.

08:25 - Speaker 3
So this, this, interview may go differently than I planned, uh, but it is. It truly is. It's one of those things that every year, especially at lion's roar, we get to uh to see each other, and it really is walking into a room of family and it is, it's amazing, fantastic um, but also you pastored a local church in austral Now leading other pastors who are pastoring local churches, helping them set structure grow. Doing what we can yeah, and you're also the chancellor of Alpha Crucis University yeah, and most of all, you've been married.

08:58 - Speaker 1
40 years, 40 years. She loves me, still, still, and likes me most days.

09:04 - Speaker 3
I mean I'm going to go 40 minutes and go. I don't know, we might need to shut this down.

09:08 - Speaker 1
But you've got 40 years that really is.

09:10 - Speaker 3
I think there's a lot of people, young people, and it's great because they all know how to use the platforms and speak into the platforms, but one of the things that is missing is the excitement or honor towards faithfulness. Yeah, is the excitement or honor towards faithfulness.

09:23 - Speaker 1
Yeah.

09:24 - Speaker 3
And the new and fresh has overcome the faithful people and to see men and women who've 40 years of marriage, 40 years of ministry, to still be at it, to still be smiling. You walked in this room, lit it up just full of life and joy.

09:48 - Speaker 1
It's something that why, yeah, why not so many things to be joy filled about it, honestly, yeah and I I would.

09:52 - Speaker 3
I would be curious what is your thought on that, because the reality is that, again, new and fresh is winning the day, but faithfulness over time, I, I always tell people I don't want to necessarily just know, uh know things from people who are where I'm at, yeah, but who've been where I'm at, yeah, and are still going. So we got a row of people at our church that I call them the gray hairs, yeah, and they are the people who prayed longer than I've been alive amazing right have served longer than I've been alive amazing.

10:18
And they're still smiling, yeah, and they're still saying amen, and they're still showing up, yeah. So what is it? Faithfulness? I mean? That seems like something you've shown and lived um, and still with joy well you're.

10:28 - Speaker 1
You're, yeah, I mean your granddad, who, who had an impact on all of our lives. I mean I, valerie, would, would attest to the fact my wife that is her name uh, would attest to the fact that I, we probably wouldn't be married without Dr Ed Cole, and that's why, you know, your dad shared him with a whole lot of men around the world and I was one of those that were blessed to have that relationship. But here's what I say faithfulness is the cornerstone of character. Right, and faithfulness is just keep showing up. And when you do mess up, the faithful man is faithful to repent. And so Valerie's made it easy because she's an amazing woman. And the kids, and now the four grandkids, you know, a good reason to just keep pushing forward.

11:21
You mentioned joy. A good reason to just keep pushing forward. Yeah, you mentioned joy. I actually think joy is the resting state of every freed-up Christian. Yeah, like it shouldn't be unusual. And again, I'm not talking about personality, I'm talking about just someone who is in love with Jesus, overflowing with his kindness. Yeah, why would you be in misery guts? Yeah, you know, and honestly, I'm really thrilled for you about those gray heads you so called, but you know the fact they are still smiling because there's a lot that aren't. They get gnarled up along the way. Yeah, and you know, if the joy is present, it's probably nine foot deep in their hearts and it's like deep joy, you know.

12:05 - Speaker 3
That is. You know, there's this phrase that goes around now. That's the toxic happiness, the people who are perpetually, always smiling and never anything else, and it's almost as though the thing that gets talked about those people must be ignorant or naive to have joy. For you to walk in, knowing that your life is not perfect, knowing that everything hasn't gone well, like you just said. We may not have been married had these people not shown up in our life.

12:32
So it's not saying that everything's always been good, always been great, but I think joy is a barometer for the life of a spiritual person. Honestly, it is that place that you go. Is there joy in their hearts, this rejoicing theme that runs throughout scripture?

12:48 - Speaker 1
It so is yeah, and it's a weapon. The Bible says the joy of the Lord is my strength. Yeah, and so not only is it much better alternative than being, as I said, misery guts, it is actually a weapon it is actually a weapon. And those that would criticize for you know, honestly, jealousy is a horrible thing, and when someone has not tapped into that, and whether it's because of their theology and it's not always the individual's fault they can get involved in a framework of just nasty Christianity, mean-spirited, you knowminded, shallow-hearted Christianity that gets into a cynicism and a judgment about everything, it seems. And I think it's good to be discerning. But that doesn't mean you can't have joy, yeah.

13:43 - Speaker 3
Yeah, that's, and you mentioned his four grandchildren, so congrats. By that doesn't mean you can't have joy. Yeah, yeah that's. You mentioned his four grandchildren, so congrats. By the way, Thank you, it is. But the legacy you give, the things that you bring into your life, what you want your grandkids experiencing. One of the things that I always tell people about my father is he can get off a 17-hour flight. He'll show up in my front yard and wrestle my kids. He's amazing and that is something that comes out of. I think.

14:04
What is paired with joy, at least even in Acts 2 in the early church, is joy and generosity. Yep, they seem to live in the same space because they almost they come from the same place. Yes, In that you have a outlook on life that is, it's not scarcity but it's abundance. It's the Lord who created a garden, not just a tree. Totally. It's abundance. It's the Lord who created a garden, not just a tree Totally. Yeah, and something that, for pastors and leaders, in living out life and carrying different weight and carrying different men, the lack of joy in men, it seems like anger is a much more regular emotion.

14:40 - Speaker 1
Well, it's certainly the emotion that gets the headlines. Sure, I'm not necessarily sure that it is a prevailing thing. That's great? I really not. I think it suits the political narrative quite frankly.

14:54
Yeah, it suits the political narrative that says dad is a doofus, dad's irrelevant, dad's an idiot because he's always throwing things around the house. Yeah, and you know I'm not immune from Valerie's. Dad came back with post-war syndrome, post-traumatic stress, before it had a name. He was captured in the Second World War, escaped seven times from POW camps, marched across Europe. So he was a messed up dude and really didn't have any way at one to help him. So, yeah, there was that anger.

15:28
But I do think that there's an exacerbation of that in the public sector sorry, in the public sphere, because it suits the idea that men are. You know that manhood is dead, women don't need men, and I think that I find most guys that I've. You know that manhood is dead, women don't need men, and I think that I find most guys that I've, you know, and I've worked with men for a lot of years, like decades, and coming out of my own brokenness back when, when I met your grandfather, I say you know I couldn't spell responsibility, but I live it. Yeah, and I was everything but faithful. I was unfaithful in relationships, I was unfaithful in really everything, and so it was a journey to come back to that and your granddad's writings, his messages and then, ultimately, a privileged relationship I had with him really really deeply impacted my life.

16:28 - Speaker 3
What would you say to those who listening, watching, who would say, yeah, I hear that I'm sure not everybody's mad or angry or upset, but joy is not an emotion I would describe, or even a fruit that I would say I'm experiencing through your journey, and it may not be a quick thing, but what would it be for a pastor, leader, a man who's sitting here going? That isn't what I that defiant joy that absurd joy that makes no sense. How do?

16:54 - Speaker 1
I get there If we start, and again, dangerous. But start with my premise that joy is the resting state for a spirit-filled believer, because the Bible says not me saying, not you saying the Bible says joy is a fruit of the spirit. Yeah, so by deduction, you know, redacted reasoning, like if you are filled with the spirit, not if you were filled with the spirit. If you are filled and that is an ongoing thing then joy will be one of the fruits of that. And so I think that I was with a pastor the other day and this got a campus pastor and he's really dedicated himself to prayer at another level and I won't mention what he does and how he prays because I don't want people going. Oh my gosh, I feel bad, but this guy is really hooked into God and we had lunch for an hour and a half and he would have cried three or four times every time he mentioned Jesus every time he started talking

18:06
about the. He's just so grateful to God. And in his particular tribe funny enough and there would be others that you would tag as maybe more talented or more his campus has doubled in the last couple of years, wow, and I don't think there's an accident there. So I think the overflow of the spirit is really an important part. I think the other thing I'd say is if joy is absent, if joy is the natural resting state, what's covering it? And you just go through the list, who are you sideways with? Who do you need to forgive? What prevailing sin is there that you are not bringing God into? That is quenching that.

19:01
What failure are you camping at in the past? What fear are you allowing to occupy? You know, rent-free between your ears, and I think that when we understand if joy is normal Christianity, then if it's not present, then there's a reason for it and oftentimes it really comes down to and when I've experienced times where joy has waned, it's almost always because I am living this Christian life in my own strength and striving and uncertainty and fear of rejection. I was pathetically insecure for the first 10 or 12 years of my ministry, like big time, big time, wow, and I was able to cover it up with a bit of personality crack a joke, you know, be loud, shake hands, look you in the eye, but on the inside I was like a scared little boy. Wow.

20:06 - Speaker 3
That seems like probably something a lot of men deal with.

20:09 - Speaker 1
I think that's true.

20:11 - Speaker 3
Yeah, that they're shaking hands and they know how to say things. There's whole Instagram accounts on how you can speak better and talk better, but on the inside, they're yeah, and I'm okay with learning how to do things like young guys need to know.

20:27 - Speaker 1
Shake hands firmly. Don't give someone a wet fish. Yeah. Look them in the eye, smile, use their name, but nothing better than for it to come like a fountain out of your heart yeah.

20:40 - Speaker 3
That's why you know, my goodness, what a list, though. What's covering your joy, this idea of forgiveness and sin, a prevailing sin camping at failure, that there was a past failure, even a present one, that is shaking your identity and fear, what's fear occupying I mean, that's a great list of things that might be getting and it wouldn't obviously only be getting in the way of joy.

21:06
Yeah, if we're talking about the fruit being from the same seed and that's maybe the thing we're talking about we talk about a man talking about prayer. What he's doing is not pursuing a fruit, no, he's planting a seed. He's pursuing Jesus. Yeah, he's creating the soil for the thing the Lord wants to grow, and it becomes, and it becomes. It is interesting in that whole fruit works. One is works of the flesh and the other is fruit of the spirit. Yes, one is centered on your own ability to do something.

21:28
Yeah that's good which creates a frustration of sin. Yeah, absolutely, that's your hand at work, yep, and the other is someone else's hand at work, yeah, but that's hard for men to go. Yeah, no, I'm going to yield here.

21:40 - Speaker 1
It is the reason that list flowed out very freely is it's autobiographical. Yeah.

21:49
And I think every man, if they're honest, confronts those things. Yeah, we've all got our story. We've all got our story and I think that. But here's the great news there is hope in the midst. If you're experiencing a lack of joy right now or a lack of peace, it's another fruit of the Spirit, or a lack of self-control or a lack of patience. If you want to know whether you are or not, just ask your wife. Then there's absolute, blood-curdling hope for you in the future. Yeah, and I think right now, if that's you, then just acknowledge it.

22:34 - Speaker 3
Yeah.

22:35 - Speaker 1
Stop playing games. That's the thing. I was a big game player and I think that when you fess up and you come to the place where you say, god, I'm making a mess of this, yeah, and can you please help, he's not like oh again, he's like delighted, yeah, he's just like bolting towards you, saying come on, son, let's go. Now you're talking. Yeah, that's why you're talking. Yeah, that's why I'm here. Yeah, you know, if a kid falls over and scratches his knee or, you know, bloodies up his knee and comes to most dads, yeah.

23:16
He says Dad, I hurt my knee. He says what are you doing, you little idiot? Go get a Band-Aid. Yeah, yeah, of course dad's delighted. Dad's delighted to lift him up and, you know, mom will do the bathing of the knee, probably without being too sexist, but yeah, that's the case.

23:31 - Speaker 3
Yeah, we'll just take a towel to it. Exactly, I mean, that is the picture of even the prodigal son. The greatest picture of forgiveness we have in Scripture, outside of the cross, is a father who comes and restores. Yep, and I don't know if there's a lot of men that just haven't been restored. I always say that the story of the prodigal son is that he's wrong twice, that he left thinking he could do it on his own.

23:54
And he came back thinking he could only be a slave, absolutely. And the father looks at him and says no, no, put the ring back on the robe back on, we're throwing a party. And there's the joy right Joy so often is tied to forgiveness, tied to this place of acknowledging and confessing, which is a bummer that we've made confession such an ugly word in the church.

24:14
Totally. Yeah, it should be one of the more life-giving things we can do as people to confess both to the Lord and to others, and then joy is restored in the acknowledgement that you've been fully and freely forgiven. What a deep thing. So for you as a pastor, because I did want to get into this, because you both lived in the world of being the lead pastor dealing with joy and not joy and forgiveness and not forgiveness, and security and not security and insecurity. And now you're leading people who are doing the same. Yeah, but my wife said this at lunch today we we had move around some stuff at the building and I had to rent a couple trucks and I was filling these big 26 foot trucks up with gas and she goes oh, the things you didn't know you signed up for because you're renovating yeah, we're doing building work at your church.

25:01
Yeah, it's the last time we'll, we will empty trucks into our building, uh, which is, uh, which is a great feeling, so good, um, but I thought an interesting question for for you, having been both one who would lead a group of people and lead a church and though, and one who leads those who do so, yeah, um, what are the things that you didn't sign up for? What are the things that you and maybe it caused some of the insecurity, or maybe it caused some of the lack of joy, or maybe it caused you to be one person in front of people and another person behind the things? You just didn't know. This was part of the thing, that this is what I was going to have to do. Yeah, yeah.

25:42 - Speaker 1
Like since we've started working with pastors. I think one of the things that and this is a crazy one God is helping us to really see some remarkable results, like the norm at the minute if someone plugs in is doubling in two years as a church and we've dialed it in now.

26:10
Yeah, and so I think one of the challenges that I didn't think I'd have to confront is the understanding by pastors in Australia and America particularly Australia, I might say of the need to have a coach, to have a mentor. Yeah, when it's right through scripture and you know, if you ask most pastors, are you seeing everything that you thought you'd be seeing right now? Like 95% would say no. So are you thinking about getting a coach to help you? Yeah, so having to convince someone because pastors there tends to be a bit of skepticism, all right, sure, yeah, and there might be some reason for that. But to convince them that you really can help is just not what I signed up for. Yeah, you know, I signed up to help pastors and when we get to do that with them, they learn a whole lot of stuff and they will dial in those things. I think maybe the other thing that I did sign up for it In fact everything I've signed up for you just don't realise you're signing up for it, right?

27:29
I'm not a big fan of travel funny enough, even though I travel six months of the year. Yeah, I don't like the travel part. I love getting there. Now, as a younger pastor, I love the travel, yeah, getting on the aeroplane, yeah, I remember first time flying up the front of the plane. It's like how good am I? And so, but that's worn thin Like I do, probably 23 weeks a year away from my family. I mean, valerie comes and joins me on the long trips and she's amazing in that, but I think she's getting over that as well and so that's a real cost, yeah, and I think some of the things like on the other side, some of the pleasant surprises. You know I signed up to kind of help pastors and encourage them, that you literally can help pastors to dial in some things and make momentum predictable. Yeah, you know, I talk about the Hail Mary pass. Some pastors pass like the Hail Mary pass. They're praying.

28:32
They're preparing, they've got some teams going, but it's coming down to the last 30 seconds and they're a touchdown behind and they hoiker Hail Mary pass. Hopefully, the. What is it? Is it the running? No, the receiver.

28:46 - Speaker 3
Receiver Good job Well done. Thank you very much. Just being culturally relevant.

28:49 - Speaker 1
Yeah, you're doing great that takes it and scores a touchdown. Yeah Well, when you look at scripture, it's supposed to be way more predictable than that.

28:59 - Speaker 5
Yeah.

28:59 - Speaker 1
And I think, sometimes even the cry for revival, revival. And how can you argue against that? No, I don't.

29:12 - Speaker 2
But I think, sometimes I think the praying is an excuse for not obeying.

29:14 - Speaker 3
God said go make disciples, because obedience requires tough decisions, hard conversations, leadership absolutely. Acknowledgement of your own, absolutely.

29:21 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, but we pinch ourselves that we get to do this honestly.

29:28 - Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, that's, by the way, I did take my son's. We got a few rugby guys in the church. Now they're on the pro rugby Dallas team.

29:34 - Speaker 1
Come on, man. So we went to a rugby game the other night. Wow, it was a good time.

29:37 - Speaker 3
Yeah, it's good they won in the last 30 seconds.

29:40 - Speaker 1
Amazing, they little scrum yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, not the Aussie rules kind. No, no, that's what my son and I played. Okay, aussie rules.

29:47 - Speaker 3
But the rugby, where these guys really clobber each other Do they wear pads? No, oh they don't. They're Samoan, Australian, South African guys, they're some big boys right, they're very real. Big boys, but when you talk about the things we just don't do consistently, we all love Acts 2, we forget Acts 1. Yep, and Acts 2 says that suddenly a sound. Acts 1 says they were continually united in prayer.

30:11 - Speaker 1
Yes.

30:12 - Speaker 3
What are the things? Is there a thread or a regular, consistent thing? I'm gonna ask you two parts to this question, Please. One is what are the things you are seeing men or pastors in? Both, and sometimes those worlds, especially in pastors, collide. They're dealing with the insecurities of just what it is to be a man and a father and a husband while also being a pastor and leading this organization and this community.

30:35
What are the things you're seeing people worry about that they shouldn't be worrying about? And then the follow-up to that would be what are the things that you would say? Because my guess is there's a thread here that you could pick off a list of five things that every guy and every lady is just not, yeah, doing the five things they should be, or three things that they should be obsessing about, yeah, that they're letting the worries of these things take over. Does that make sense?

31:00
yeah, what are the things they're worrying about too much. What am I worrying about as a pastor? What? What am I thinking about? Monday through Friday? That probably isn't moving the needle much. Yeah, isn't really helping.

31:14 - Speaker 1
I think bottoms on seats and money in the offering. They are what I call lagging indicators. Yeah, and every Monday, what was the offering? What was the offering? Like that, again, that's the Hail Mary Pass thing. It was great.

31:31 - Speaker 3
Thank you, jesus. And it's not bad to know those things.

31:33 - Speaker 1
No, no no, but if you attend to the leading indicators, those things are going to-.

31:40 - Speaker 3
Yeah, explain that concept, because I've heard you teach this before the lagging and leading indicators. It's a pre and post. Let me give you a rugby example.

31:47 - Speaker 1
Okay, so back in the day the Aussies were world champions till the War Blacks, you know that we Came on the scene, less interested in rugby now. So we were in the semifinal I think, and we played Ireland. There was a minnows type team and we were killing everyone on the war path and we had. And at halftime the Irish were up and it was just like what the heck. And then the coach and the captain came together and they realised they got so used to winning. They were just looking at the scoreboard rather than looking at focusing on the free-flowing rugby that was getting the result.

32:26
I think, for pastors, if you engage in radical ninja-style hospitality with every new guest and that's worth getting absolutely pedantic about Got it. And if you, like I tell the story, you know, draw the little narrative. If Jesus rocked up at your church at the front door with a pair of 501s Levi's and a pair of cowboy boots and a white T-shirt, dreadies, and he had Kate and Bob with him and he said hey to the person on the door, hey, jesus, yeah, I'll be back for worship, but I've got these guys. Can you look after Kate and Bob? My question how well are Kate and Bob going to be looked after Like red carpet on steroids, right? Yeah, well, I believe that's exactly what's happening every time God is sending guests to us. They are God's guests and when that revelation hits, it's almost like nothing we do is too much, yeah. And then, you know, at Leaderscape, we've developed a very data-driven you know, dashboard that from there into a growth track, so attend to that into groups and so forth. Yeah, so I think, leading indicators versus lagging indicators, yeah.

33:45
Secondly, I think, what people think of you and the fear of man and the desperate desire to please everyone, yeah, I was with a dear friend not so long ago and he, you know, he was like hey, hey, hey, hey, touching everyone. And afterwards, you know, and he was having a great time and everyone was needing to get a touch from pastor. I said what the heck are you doing, dude? He said, oh, I'm just, you know, being pastoral. I said, no, you're not, you're being insecure. I said you feel like you've got to touch everyone and say hi to everyone or they're going to leave your church. And he just did this and I knew that because that was me. Yeah, that was me.

34:34
I heard a buzz once that someone might be leaving the church. I was in Singapore. I rang them at home in Sydney hey, how you doing? Just thinking about you. I wasn't there. I was desperate. They didn't want to stop them from leaving the church. And the truth is like when you do that, if you dive in micromanaging people, you build a codependence that is insatiable. Eventually they're going to blow you off. And so I think, worry less about what people think. And so, I think, worry less about what people think. And then I think the third thing is stop being so blooming busy Busyness activity. I've never been in a church, hardly that. There's some measure of that. Oh, we've got a lot on at the moment, just at the moment. No, it's not at the moment. You've always flipping, got a lot on, and busyness is almost always a symptom of a lack of disciple-making strategy. Because when you've got a disciple-making strategy that's working, you can back off the here event, there, an event, ever an event vent. Old McPastor had an event E-I-E-I-O.

35:45 - Speaker 3
In other words, the nickels and noses of attendance and finances are not a representation, ultimately, of disciple making. You can focus on them, you can bend over backwards to make them happen.

35:57 - Speaker 1
Yeah.

35:57 - Speaker 3
But the lead indicators of making disciples, if you put that together.

36:02 - Speaker 1
it's impossible not for you to have building problems. Yeah, it's impossible Creating the to have building problems. Yeah, it's impossible creating the table you create the table, you you raise people up.

36:11
You know the bible god is a multiplication god not just not just like as a uh kind of a rhetoric, like it's. It's true that's everything about god is reproduction. So that's why the book that I wrote Accelerate I titled it XLR8, a Prophetic and Practical Blueprint to Double your Church. I always, when I work with a church, start with double and then reverse engineer that and frankly, we've got some now that have already doubled and they're doubling again. So this is a thing you can keep doing.

36:46 - Speaker 3
And when you say double because I think what you just said ties in really well with I think what a lot of young leaders and young pastors and just young people in general as they look at the church what you're really saying. When you say double in growth and size, what you're actually saying because you just hit it on the nose which is that disciple making strategy. At the end of the day, I'm not measured by the size of my church, I'm measured by the disciples that have been made, but they tie together. I think, really, I think this allergic reaction to size yep, is more an allergic reaction to that. They have not felt discipled in a thing.

37:24
Absolutely. And they blame it on the size of a place. Yeah, yeah, and I don't and that's a worthwhile criticism.

37:31 - Speaker 1
Because there are some very large churches that are preaching centers that are so Sunday-centric and event-based they don't have even time or space to disciple people. I mean, one of the questions I ask pastors all the time is where is discipleship happening in your church that is strategic and intentional and reproducible? And mostly they'll quote you know. Oh man, I wish you could meet Jono. He's a great guy. He has a bunch of guys over every Saturday morning and opens a Bible with him. He's a great disciple. I's a bunch of guys over every Saturday morning and opens a Bible with him. He's a great disciple. And I said I didn't ask that. That's a random anecdote I'm talking about. If you're a steward over everyone God's given you then we need to be discipling the majority and it's absolutely possible. I'm convinced of it.

38:22 - Speaker 3
Yeah, that's such a big conversation, right, if I really look at everything that I'm called to do as a pastor and even as a husband, as a father, to make disciples, to create a replicable, multiplying environment. And really that is what you're trying to do to create an environment, an ecosystem we're calling it yeah a greenhouse, whatever.

38:45
Everything that's being produced is produced because it's in the environment, exactly. And when someone engages in your environment and in your ecosystem, something's happening and everybody's talking about the practices of Jesus and the way of Jesus and I think it's brilliant. We call them patterns of Jesus. What are the things he did? We always talk about temple to table that. It was this back and forth. You don't know somebody until you've seen them use a fork right. Totally, you don't know what they do. Will you tell your friend that there's food in their teeth? Do you have those type of people? And I saw you just check that I did it just happens. You can't help it. Everybody checks, everybody checks. Yeah, um, when I think about the discipleship and the growth and the yeah, I got something on my nose. Mayor would be like messing with my eyebrows. Yeah, um, we can edit that, okay, um that's okay, that's going yeah definitely, definitely put it in the in the outtakes.

39:40
so you're saying that you would obsess about. I think, and and I think even your radical hospitality and welcoming of a person is also part of this discipleship strategy I'm gearing our church around this idea that, from the moment, even before they get to my doorstep, what are we doing to create an environment where they see Jesus and they really can follow him well and have all the things we've talked about, the fruit and all of those different things? What would you on the insecurity part, because I feel like every time you mention it it makes me want to keep asking about it, because I think it's something that I've struggled with.

40:18
Why would I say that, yeah, did you do something? Well, there's something in your teeth. That's why. And I just thought someone who's more aware would know that. But I wonder how I'm saving it for later. Yeah, how do you? How? How do you handle that? Because I think there's this. I said this to our church the other day. I said, you know you don't have to please everyone, yeah, but I think sometimes what that means to a lot of us is that means I can make everyone upset. Yeah, yeah, it's almost licensed to.

40:45 - Speaker 1
Yeah, sure to not be a peacemaker anymore.

40:47 - Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, how do you wrestle that? How do you gain your, how do you get that security and as a husband, as a father, as a, as a pastor, whatever it is, to not just put on the face? And I know we talked, we touched on this right, the, the prayer and being with the lord, and but how do you? I mean, how did really did?

41:06 - Speaker 1
you just pray more? No, no, no. One of the secret weapons for me is I do a daily confessions. You mentioned confessions, but in the context of confess your sins Positive, yeah, but actually confess over my life. You know what God already says about me, who he already says that I am and I think that. Just a couple of quick ones. I am a child of the Most High God, thoroughly loved by Him and accepted in the Beloved, and some of these you'll laugh at, but I choose amazing. Every morning, I bounce out of bed first thing, knowing that the day has huge opportunities in store for me. Now, sometimes that I'm prophesying of myself Correct, yeah, and I'm free from the feeling that I'm not enough or that I'm letting God or others down. His cross and His grace really is enough. I'm free from the fear of rejection and failure. So I've got about 30 of those and I speak those out loud over my life and what happens is and I encourage people to do this and to do it for 28 days do it for four weeks.

42:23 - Speaker 3
I promise you, you will think differently yeah, what do you say to people who think that's a bit hokey or that's some kind of um, oh, you're just being toxic positivity. What do you? What do you? How do you take someone to go theologically root that and go? No, no, you're missing it because people have the right death.

42:40 - Speaker 1
People have the right to be wrong, so 100. So this is bible. The bible talks about so much is tied up in confession. You think about it, even our salvation. Believe in your heart and put your elbow in the air. No, confess with your mouth. It's one of the most underrated weapons and unfortunately, I think some you know have reacted to the grab it and blab it thing. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the fact that every day, you get bombarded with hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of bits of information and messaging, and much of it is will pull you down. And so what I'm saying is take 10 minutes at the start of every day and speak over your life what God has already spoken over your life what he believes.

43:31
So not make it up, not like I am a superhero, no, yeah, god sees you like that. He sees you through the blood of Jesus. So when I go out during the day from that moment and the enemy will say you're a schmuck, you're not worth it, you're not going to make it. I've got a Teflon coating on my heart, yeah, and dude, it slides off, whereas when I've got a vacuum, it's like I've got Velcro and every little stinking undercurrent. And I know the difference. And I didn't do that back when I was battling insecurity. So I repented, because actually insecurity is calling God a liar, mm-hmm.

44:15
And again, we don't think of that at the time and I know no one's going oh, you're God, you're a liar. But think about it. When God says something over your life and you choose to believe something else, you've elevated that over him. So you're saying, well, you're not right, you're telling fibs to be God. That's not true, yeah. And so you repent of it and you replace the lie. Romans 1.25 says they replace the truth of God with a lie, yeah. So what we're going to do is replace the lie again with the truth of the Word of God, and that's what that is, I know.

44:51 - Speaker 3
I think it's brilliant. I think the people who the early church was built on the idea they had a conviction of belief. They were a believing people, yes, and they had the breath of God the.

45:01
Holy Spirit and I think even the confessions about who God is, because if you believe who God is, who is the creator, he is the one who made you, hung the stars in the sky then that changes. You can't say things about yourself if you're believing certain things about God. Yes, and that, ultimately, is it tozer? It may not be. That talks about everything we do in faith revolves around what we believe about who god is.

45:25 - Speaker 1
I believe that yeah, yeah.

45:27 - Speaker 3
And if we believe god is a good, god creates good things, give good gifts yes if we believe he created the earth to be redeemed, cultivated, and it is beautiful, then then we either don't fit in that or we do, and we have to make a decision. That's right and I think that's brilliant, the confession, because we do have things that we say about ourselves the narrative.

45:46
What is? Dad talks about this all the time, then, then, our identity is is the story we're telling ourselves about ourselves? Yes, yeah, and and we, and it's part of why finding this greater, better, better story of creation, I love it. And a good God who redeemed his creation. Yes, he says he's going to restore his creation. Yes, I'm part of this. Yeah, that's my story, mm-hmm, and it's anchored in something so much deeper and greater than even ourselves, and I think it's such an important idea Because when you carry that, whether it be with your team and staff, or whether you carry that into your home, whether you carry that around your friends, I've got friends who will text me on a fairly regular basis out of the blue hey, you have done this and you're great at this.

46:30
And it's only a handful. That's probably two sure. I say two sure, and and and we reciprocate and we go hey, you've been incredible at this. Amazing, and the outward confession of friendships and relationships and having those people, which is part of the tragedy of pastors not having friends, and I would say there's part of this that men also, in general terms, seem to not have friends. They have friends who can talk about the easy things of life. The latest playoff series whatever, the rugby matches the things in your teeth.

47:04
But what is it that? The friendships that speak to the identity of a person, and we seem to be lacking that. I think so.

47:12 - Speaker 1
I think so. I think, at the end of the day, you speak about what you value, which can be a bit scary, and I understand the intimidation factor, but I think we need to make spiritual normal amongst men and that's one of the things. You know, I've been involved in this ministry christian men's network, uh, you know. Global fatherhood initiative, uh, for 35 years. Yeah, and it changed my life.

47:39
And a band of brothers, as your dad says, is indispensable, and your dad's right in the sense that the story we tell about ourselves forms identity and we get our identity from Jesus. But we don't just get all of our identity. Our reflected identity in community was also Always part of it, always part of God's plan. In fact, our rugged individualism of the Western culture it really does suck. It's an invention of humanity, it's not God.

48:15
When God looked down, he always saw, of course, as an individual's relationship with God, but it was always in the context of community, yeah, and so I am really excited about I mean, you know, I just the numbers boggle my mind the fact there's a million men right now meeting in small groups and so forth around the globe learning how to be better men with the Majoring in Men curriculum and you know, millions are dropping the bucket in one way. Let's bring on the 10 million. Yeah, but those men are getting it hot from God off the wire, yeah. But they're also getting affirmation from brothers, in the example that you described of guys that really can speak into their heart, speak into their soul and say I rate you as a man of God, I rate you as a husband to your, and it just, it causes you to muscle up on the inside.

49:19 - Speaker 3
Yeah, I think that, well, it ties back into what we talked about with confession as well. Right, because we make confession, negative, because it's the only thing we confess. Yes.

49:27
And we make it about accountability partners. That's right. And we make it about okay, will you confess all your sins? Okay, that's not. But that's not where it should stop. Sure, hey, tell me everything. There's a commercial in the States that's someone that looks like someone they're not. They're usually dressed up as a celebrity and they're complaining and then their friend hands them a Snickers bar and they snap back into who they're supposed to be.

49:49 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

49:50 - Speaker 3
And we always say this you need to have friends who can give you a Snickers bar. Spiritual Snickers bar. Yeah you need to be able to have people who can say to you you're not being who you're supposed to be, you're not being all that you could be. And I think community, how many people? And I would be curious what you think, how many people would be saved from a tragedy of their calling simply by having first started with Christ and community and relationship. How many people stepped out too quickly or how many?

50:16
people didn't have anyone to support them when they stumbled along the way, because we've glorified your gifting and your calling and we've missed, like we talked about at the very, very beginning, this faithfulness of friendship and relationship and we don't honor it the way we could.

50:31 - Speaker 1
Again, the scripture says faithful the wounds of a friend.

50:33
And I think that when we understand that we are safe and this is where you know a lot of the stuff of you know, toxic Christianity there's a lot of new words that have been invented recently, toxic Christianity, church hurt. And though I understand that people get hurt, churches don't hurt anyone. People hurt people and I think, if you think about the construct that's being formed, it all undermines the church of Jesus Christ, the ecclesia, the called out ones, the church of Jesus Christ, the ecclesia, the called out ones. And because, frankly, if the enemy can get people isolated, then he's got them right where he needs them. And again, if people listening, watching men, women who've been hurt in a context of a church, I'd love you to think about reframing your narrative and say, yes, I have been hurt. It's important to own that. People are people and it's horrible that you've been hurt. But, quite frankly, it's time for all of us to go on a journey, put our big boy's pants and big girl's pants on and take responsibility for not what happened, because that might have been way outside of your control and that's horrible, yeah, but for your reaction to it. Yeah, because the road ahead is wonderful. But if you hold on to that and you've got a language for it. I'm hurt and so therefore I'm separate from the body. Hell is the only one that's laughing.

52:23
I saw this little cartoon once. It was an elk or a moose or something like that, and he had a target like the target logo target on his chest. And the other guy, the elk next to him, says a bummer of a birthmark, hal. And I think that's how the enemy sees isolated Christians with a target over their heart. We honestly need each other and that's why it's so important One of the advice given to me by my senior pastor when I launched out to take on the senior leadership when I launched out to take, you know, on the senior leadership of the church that we did gosh nearly 30 years ago he said, whatever happens to you, keep a sweet spirit. And I said yeah, yeah, great, and I wasn't really listening. But he said it again. He said, listen, whatever happens to you, keep a sweet spirit.

53:19 - Speaker 3
And if you're listening and watching this and you haven't got a sweet spirit right now, you are one decision away from sweetening that up and then a journey to discard that, because, I promise you, there's only one agenda about you keeping nailed up, and that is the agenda that would destroy your destiny and isolate you from the body of christ yeah, I would, and I would say this because I think, just as a we've got, we have, I've got, I think of a young couple in our church who's has as a genuine story of church abuse genuine, true and true all the way through and they just recently started to explain and share some of this with those close to them, uh, that were part of the whole thing, and those people have not and this is the way he described it to me.

54:03
In fact, I just talked to him a minute ago. He said it wasn't that they didn't agree with me, it's that they couldn't hear me. And I think, the church, when you're talking about whether it be deconstruction, which I view far more as an opportunity, I mean, every generation has deconstructed something.

54:18 - Speaker 1
Every far more as an opportunity.

54:19 - Speaker 3
I mean every generation has deconstructed something, every single generation, to demonize the idea that, you know, we don't have to go there. But in these ideas of church, I think for us, this idea that the church should be willing and able to at the very least hear those people who've walked through, because what we just talked about a moment ago, these churches and broad strokes, are the worst thing in the world. They don't seem to serve much of a purpose. There's way more complexity than we're willing to give credence to, but that, when we don't have that discipleship making lean in and we're just about the correct, well then, if someone gets hurt, well, okay, we'll just fill your seat. Yeah, sure, it's that lagging thing, yeah, but if you go, well, okay, we'll just fill your seat.

54:59
Yeah, sure, it's that lagging thing. Yeah, but if you go, oh, you're coming in hurt, whether it's your fault or theirs, whether it's legitimate or not. Yeah, yeah, how are we welcoming you in? When you think about even we just celebrated Easter a few weeks ago when you think about Mary seeing Jesus and she sees him through tears, as a gardener, and not until he says her name, does she fully get it? Is that because she had so many tears that she couldn't see? Or is it because Jesus, you know, just fun there. But this idea that we've got to be a church and we've got to be men, when a man walks in to a small group, to a men's event, to when a brother of ours, when a friend of ours, when a pastor buddy of ours comes in and is broken and beat up, yeah, our first thing isn't oh, man, well, you shouldn't have done that. Yeah, it's. Uh. Okay, hey, sit. Yeah, let's find jesus again.

55:45 - Speaker 1
exactly so good, let's seek this thing out and I think that's what I'm saying it's like it's, it's not not not acknowledging it, yeah, and and um you, even on reflection, if it sounded harsh, I just I think the enemy's plan is to have people camp by the cesspool of their hurt. Yeah, and putting language on it and making it a noun is sometimes legitimises staying right there. I think that's great, yeah, and so I think it does need to be acknowledged. It does as much as is up to you.

56:26
So the church leader and again, I know there's some atrocities that have been done and so I'm not mitigating those one little bit, but whether the church leader repents or acknowledges is outside of your control, yeah, and so if you refuse to release that, you bind yourself to that situation and, frankly, it can stunt your spiritual growth. Yeah, and I think, whether it's a man, often it is a woman, and I think that, and again, that's where pastors there's a huge responsibility, not just even in the appropriateness of their intimate relationships, yeah, but even in the power base where you've got someone who is in a power situation over a congregant or a staff member. Even the law these days frowns heavily and they should on that.

57:30 - Speaker 3
Yeah, and creating the language from a pulpit. When you have a pulpit and every week you get to speak into a community of people, you're creating an environment.

57:38
I think it's a big topic that gets you know, as most things do these days get broad strokes sound bites and what feeds the narrative, what helps people grow something, and I think it's a unique thing and a unique opportunity for the church to step into, because I think there's a lot of men, whether it be lacking friendship, whether it be devoid of joy or just missing that calling piece, that identity piece that had that insecurity, so they're chasing whatever comes in that vacuum, so they're confessing something that isn't true of themselves yes, but it's working for a minute. It's easing that for a second, yeah, but it ultimately ends up void. Okay, it's easing that for a second, but it ultimately ends up void, okay. So I want to wrap up with this and I wanted to ask this question, because you went from pastoring a local church to now leading and traveling six months out of the year, and I think for a lot of people, a lot of men, especially in pastors especially, there's seasons of transition and change, yeah, and even transition opportunities for legacy.

58:42
What would you say? Is you transitioned and changed in your role significantly? I mean, you went from leading a local body every week in the trenches to now you're leading others who are leading local body, but they're not sitting under your preaching every week, and there's things you gain and things you lose, there's the insecurities. Did some of that insecurity pop back up? So what I wanted to ask was what are the things that you look back at, that transition and go? Because I wonder if our generations, as we're moving through a next generation, and how people are transitioning well, or are they transitioning well? Are they handing things off? Are they creating legacy for a next generation to take, or are we just having to do it a very different way? When you look at that transition, what are the things that you you look back and go? Man, I spent way too much time thinking about that. Yeah, and, and it took, and, and. If I would have done it again, I would have spent more time leaning into this. Yep.

59:44 - Speaker 1
In answer to the transition, no, we're doing it horribly, horribly, and it's related to some of the things we've talked about. It's related to insecurity of the senior pastor and the lack of intentional disciple making. Now, of course, there are good examples of that, but sadly they are way in the minority. You hear train wreck stories and so I think they're related. You can't transition effectively if you're not being a disciple maker.

01:00:16
The time to start making disciples is not when you're 64 and a half or when you're 68 and a half. Yeah, it's actually way earlier than that. So I think your generation coming through, I think there's a genuine heart to reframe the model of local church and to really get very intentional about making disciples, and I think that's going to stand you in good stead in the future. Yeah, I think the other thing and I'll talk about me in a minute but just if you've got a choice in transitioning to someone sometimes pastors and I get it dad wants the son to do well and all that kind of stuff and so often they'll try, and if they've got a son or a daughter they'll try and go after that.

01:01:09
But again, if they're not, you can inherit a ministry but you can't inherit anointing. And so if you're looking as to who to favour, you know, favour the strategic leader over the charismatic show pony the preacher. Yeah, because if you just bring in a preacher, then particularly if you've got any kind of sizeable ministry and we've never been here before, we've got giga churches. Now that, like you know, if you, if you want someone to take over a church, say of 500, you could, you know there's a long list of people can do it. You, you got 5 000.

01:01:48
it thins right down, you got 10 or more, and I know that's a very small percentage, but they're the profile ones and and for me I think one of the things that was a real pleasant surprise was it just activated a fresh faith. It's amazing what hunger will do. There was a verve in me because I think I learned to do senior pastoring. Wow, you know how to do it, you preach it, I was praying and all that stuff. But it's just like, oh my gosh, and so you kick. It just kickstarted.

01:02:24
It felt like it put the paddles on my faith afresh and people ask me all the time do you miss, you know, pastoring a church? No, and not because I didn't love it, Right, it's just the season. Yeah, Whenever you transition, God starts to ruffle a nest and there are things you used to love about it you don't kind of care for as much anymore. Yeah, and so that was you know. So I don't miss it. I said it before I miss Christmas and Easter. They're kind of cool times to be in church life, but I now enjoy. I want to cruise this Easter and like that would never have been a possibility?

01:03:08 - Speaker 3
No way.

01:03:09 - Speaker 1
You know people shouldn't want you in their pulpit over Easter. Yeah, you know they need to be preaching that themselves. Yeah, and so I think I, yeah, I think they're the main things.

01:03:23 - Speaker 3
Yeah, that's interesting. I think there's a lot of people who want to make choices and decisions and are sitting on one, worried about what will change, instead of being invigorated by what will change. Sure, and it's an understandable thing. Yeah, it is To step out and to be uncomfortable and to be in that place. Um, but I think, I think transition in.

01:03:42 - Speaker 1
I mean, you think about life. Yeah, every stage of life you're transitioning. Yeah, from when you're a little little tacker, uh, you go from infant school to primary to secondary, to, uh, college or your first job to. From single to married just when you thought it was safe to go in the water, the shark fin of kids comes along to college. Or your first job, from single to married just when you thought it was safe to go in the water, the shark fin of kids comes along and that all changes. And then the kids grow up and leave home. So everything, transition happens all the time and I think transition is one of God's ways to keep us dependent upon Him, not upon what we now know.

01:04:19 - Speaker 3
Upon what you can predict Totally and what you know. Yeah, yeah, and maybe this will be the best way to end it when you think about all that's new, everything that's coming, that's new. Everybody's talking about AI and social media and all the different things that are happening, views on church, nouns that we've created. All that's happening. What are the things as a man, as a husband, as a father and as a leader, as a pastor, that aren't new, but they have to stay. They're ancient things that must remain as you walk out this life of faith, as you walk out this life of leadership and leading your family.

01:04:54 - Speaker 1
Spirit, word, church and mission. The Holy Spirit's real. He's so, so real. I was just on the aeroplane. I was just singing just to myself, just a song, and I just sensed the presence of God. In fact. Then I landed at Dallas and I was dying to go to the loo and I went into the toilet and I was still singing the same song and there I was in the middle of the toilet and I sensed the presence to the loo. And I went into the toilet and I was still singing the same song and there I was in the middle of the toilet and I sensed the presence of the Holy Spirit. That is awesome. So he lives in the loo as well.

01:05:25
The Word of God. Don't just give yourself a leave, pass and say, well, you know, no, I read the Word. Are you letting the Word of God read you? The Church of Jesus Christ is never out of fashion and the church of Jesus Christ will always be too small, because it's not God's will that any should perish, but that all should come to eternal life. And the greatest thing for a believer is to be an active soul winner and a disciple maker. Last one and this is a bit edgy, that's great active soul winner and a disciple maker. Last one, and this is a bit edgy, but imagine if in my marriage no one ever told me that you could actually make love and consummate the marriage.

01:06:07
And all I did was shake hands with my wife, a believer that has never won a soul, doesn't know what it is to have their Christianity consummated. That's where the joy there's some. You know you don't want to take that analogy too far, but seriously, we are called to conceive new life in Christ. It's not us that does it, we are called to do that. The exhilaration from Christianity, the uber-fulfillment, comes out of us leading a life that we were born to lead. If you've got your butt on a chair and that's the extent of your Christianity even if you do it two times a month and you're given the offering and you say a prayer every now and then and you open your Bible every day, no wonder you are so flippant bored that your eyes are falling out of your head that you are living a life way short of what God always intended.

01:07:02 - Speaker 3
Oh, so good, Fantastic way to end that. Yeah, live a life on mission and every father needs to do it, every husband needs to do it, every friend of anybody needs to do it. Totally Right, it's the joke that you don't need the fruit of the Spirit unless you have people around yeah and uh and

01:07:17
so you've got to have those things. I I think that's a fantastic way. Yeah, to close this out, I want to have you pray. I really appreciate the conversation. The truth is, I felt like there's probably three or four things we could have spent another hour on uh, we'll be back through dallas, so yeah, you, you can find michael murphy leaderscape and uh, look him up on socials. The. Leaderscape, the Leaderscape, the Leaderscape, and we'll put all of that in the comments and everything, but we're just so thankful for you.

01:07:45 - Speaker 1
And, if I can, we desperately want to help young pastors. I was just at the airport, just before I came out here, and just a bunch of really sharp young guys and I just started talking to one of them and in the end there was like there was eight of them sitting around and we were swapping stories and they're asking questions and, honestly, I could have died and gone to heaven, right there, that's awesome.

01:08:11
And they were a bunch of campus pastors from a little-known church called Elevation. Oh, there you go, and I was just so in the. We love that.

01:08:20 - Speaker 5
And that's why I wrote the book.

01:08:21 - Speaker 1
Accelerate a Prophetic and Practical Blueprint to Double your Church, and 100%, no matter who's listening. If you're a pastor, I believe in you and I believe that you can double your church, yeah. And if you want to get a copy of that, if you can't afford it, reach out to me on all the socials and I'll give you a free copy. Yeah, While you pray over us pray over every man.

01:08:45 - Speaker 3
Talk about insecurity and forgiveness and joy and mission. This is just so much there, but just pray over a man, pastor leader. Yes, yes, it'd be great.

01:08:54 - Speaker 1
Hey, Brandon, this was awesome.

01:08:56 - Speaker 3
I enjoyed it. You are so good at this. This is so cool.

01:08:59 - Speaker 1
Father, I just thank you for your grace on our lives. I thank you even for the Holy Spirit present, lord, in the hearts and the rooms and the lives and the vehicles of every person that has listened to this today. Father, I do speak. Your blessing, lord, I do pray for generational blessing over them. Lord, I take authority in the name of Jesus of, just like you helped me for so many years. Lord, I break that insecurity over their lives. I break any spirit of fear or rejection. And, god, I do pray that you'd release them into being the men and the women that you have called them to be. Father, we do honour your Holy Spirit. We thank you. Your Holy Spirit always points to Jesus. God, thank you for the living word that speaks to us and reads us.

01:09:58
Father, I do pray that we'd stop long enough in order to hear your voice. God, I do pray for the Church of Jesus Christ. I pray for men, particularly in the church, lord, maybe some bewildered about what their role is. Father, I do pray you'd encourage every man under the sound of my voice right now, lord, where there's need for restoration, where there's need for repair, where there's need for revitalisation of their marriage or their family. God, I do pray over them right now and, lord, I thank you that we get to be on mission with you. God, I pray for those that have never won a soul, never led anyone to Jesus, never really even brought someone to church under the sound of the gospel. That will change over the next seven days. Father, I thank you that we can live on mission to win souls and make disciples, lord, not only creating a fruitful future but an incredibly fulfilled one. We give you the praise and the glory for that In Jesus' name. Amen and amen.

01:10:57 - Speaker 3
Amen, amen, thank you so much.

01:11:00 - Speaker 1
So good seeing you Thanks for having me so good and amen, amen, amen.

01:11:02 - Speaker 3
Thank you so much, so good seeing you. Thanks for having me. So good having you, yep awesome.

01:11:06 - Speaker 5
Brave Men is a production of Christian Men's Network, a global movement of men committed to passionately following Jesus on the ground in over 100 nations worldwide. You can receive the Brave Men motivational email, find books and resources for discipleship and parenting at cmn.men. That's cmn.men. Your host has been Paul Louis Cole, president of Christian Men's Network, and if you haven't yet, please make sure you subscribe to the Brave Men podcast wherever you find podcasts or download it. Thanks for hanging with us today. We'll see you next time on Brave Men.