Ending Human Slavery

00:00 - Speaker 1 My friend, Nick Caine, is one of the most remarkable men you will ever meet. He and his wife, Christine Caine, years ago in 2008, co-founded the movement A21. It's a radical hope that the cycle of human trafficking can be broken. They reach, rescue and restore. Those are the three things Reach, rescue, restore. A21, you may have heard about them dealing with human trafficking going and helping the most vulnerable coming out of the Ukraine and all that sort of mess, going right into the middle of the toughest areas where human slavery still happens today. 00:37 You'll hear some amazing stories from Nick Caine today and you'll meet a man who actually speaks what he lives, what he speaks, he talks about the important things and he does something about it. And Nick Caine is one of those men you say, ok, that's what I want my boys to be around, that's what I want my sons to see, because that's a man who's standing up for others and his wife, christine Caine. Some of you have heard her or seen her on different programs, preaching on some of the world's largest stages. But how does Nick navigate all this as a CEO of A21? And then with Equip and Empower Ministries? How does he navigate that? How does he keep his edge? How does he not get beaten down by? You know the stuff that's happening in the world today. It's really easy to get negative and Nick and Chris are not that. They believe that everything they do makes a difference. 01:43 I can't wait for you to meet my friend, Nick Caine, who is the CEO of the A21 organization, and Chris Caine, his wife. But you'll meet Nick. It's a radical man who literally every single day, 24 hours a day, is working on making the world a better place, and this is how it happens. Like I said, I want our sons, our kids, my grandsons, to be a man like Nick Caine, remarkable man. Remember, all the tools you need for discipling young men, for the discipleship of men, for raising up great dads is available at cmn.men, christianmensnetwork.men, and all the tools you need are there. Brave Men is a ministry outreach of the Christian Men's Network worldwide, over 100 nations and almost 800,000 men every single month going through materials that help them become better men. And speaking of better men, you're going to meet Nick Caine today on Brave Men. 02:52 - Speaker 2 It's Brave Men, with Paul Louis Cole, wisdom and courage for the journey. 03:00 - Speaker 1 Talking with Nick Caine in 2008, a few ordinary people set out to do the impossible, and that is abolish slavery everywhere forever. And I love this line you have on your, this commitment, Nick, this mission on A21, to see a world where women are no longer sold for sex, where men are no longer sold for labor and where children are no longer taken from their families and exploited. Nick, you're co-founder of 821 and CEO, and then you and your wife, Chris, have had Empower and Equip and Empower Ministries for years, and then 821 got birthed in 2008. Stop and abolish slavery. I mean somewhat of a big goal, right? What's the problem, tell me? The kind of a capsulization of the issue, trafficking we hear about it and coercion for either labor or sex. 04:11 - Speaker 3 So it doesn't actually necessarily involve movement. So trafficking is kind of a terrible word or an inadequate word to describe the problem. 04:20 So slavery is a better word, then Modern day slavery is a better word than modern day slavery is is. Is is a better definition, in my opinion. Um, and it comes from when someone's um vulnerable through poverty, through all sorts of different things. It could be they're down on their luck. It could be they're poor. It could be it could be as um simple as sort of trusting somebody too much. Um, then they're poor. It could be. It could be as simple as sort of trusting somebody too much. Then they're vulnerable to exploitation and and there's a lot of people in the world today who are looking to exploit people and that's, that is, for sex and for labor, and there's more slaves on the planet today than there has ever been in the history of the world. 05:05 - Speaker 1 Wait a second Really, there's more people indentured, enslaved today than ever in the history of the world. 05:15 - Speaker 3 Ever in the history of the world, over 40 million today. 05:18 - Speaker 1 Over 40 million, my God man, and that can be like. For instance, there was a couple out in the los angeles area. I remember reading in the newspaper it seemed to me it was the end of last year where they actually got busted because they had kept, uh, some housemaids essentially enslaved yep, totally. 05:39 - Speaker 3 We had some in orange county. 05:41 - Speaker 1 They couldn't go anywhere they were, they were locked in a room. They had to do all their work. They weren't paid. It was kind of like, hey, we're going to feed you, but you're stuck. 05:52 - Speaker 3 Yeah, absolutely. We do aftercare here in the US, in Dallas and in the Carolinas. We've had numerous forced labour cases of slavery right here in the US that we've been intimately involved with, from caring for the people to helping the law enforcement with the prosecution of the traffickers. And it's common with the prosecution of the traffickers. And it's common Like a couple of months ago our team were involved in a bust and it involved dozens of victims of forced labour and it's just shocking when you see it. It's always. We all understand it over there, wherever over there is, but your American I'm an Aussie, live, live in the US now. So we think of over there as Africa, asia. 07:02 - Speaker 1 Cambodia. 07:03 - Speaker 3 South America, but it's just as prevalent here in the US, and in fact there's more money here in the US. So we're as likely, or more likely, to look for ways to minimize labor costs and maximize profit as anywhere else in the world and maximize profit, as anywhere else in the world. 07:29 - Speaker 1 You know the stories and I want you to give me a couple of stories Now. You've got you know as a A21, as an organization. You're operating around the world. You've got centers in 14 countries, 19 locations. Is that right? 07:42 Yeah, and these are places where you're helping restore people, bring them back to right thinking, because they've been, they've been exploited and warped. Their thinking is is jacked up, I mean, and so essentially a lot of what. The forced labor thing is amazing to me, because I don't think of that normally. When I think of human trafficking, I think of sexual stuff and but that all of it's bad, all slavery, over 40 million people and and you guys, 821 is out after to abolish that. Tell me some of the things that you've seen, some of the stories. You've had some amazing stories I heard. I remember one in Sophia where a girl, where some girls, were actually rescued from human traffickers and were taken across Europe. 08:30 - Speaker 3 We've had all sorts of stories and, probably starting at the beginning, our first office was actually in Greece. 08:40 Our first office was actually in Greece and our first case was one that really shocked me, the same way that the concept of forced labour shocked you. But a Bulgarian couple had been recruited and promised that they could work for this farmer and they'd work and then they'd be able to go home to see their kids on weekends and it'd be great. And when they got to this site they had all their ID taken. They were well away from anywhere that they could get away from, and he was forced to work in the fields and she was a domestic servant and raped pretty much every day. And then at the end of the day they would lock them up in a shed with the dogs and they'd feed the dogs. So if they wanted to eat they had to fight the dogs for the food. And that shocked me, just because of the fact that it was it. 09:47 Again, I like you at that stage of human trafficking as as, just as sex slavery, uh, but to see it like that's old school slavery, um, very present in a very civilized european country that we would go to for for holidays. Yeah right, We've had an 18-month-old in our care in Asia with a fractured pelvis because she was being pimped out by her mother. And you just, there's stories like that that just shock you and people here in the US who had come looking for a better life thought they were doing the right thing and ended up trafficked Today. We've had two survivors rescued today. Both of those were for sex trafficking, one in Bulgaria and one in Greece. And it's just amazing when you see it day by day. I always say I think I've seen as low as humanity can go, and humanity steps up pretty much every day to surprise me. 11:06 - Speaker 1 In a bad way. A21, you've won the Hero Award, united Nations Women of Peace, mother Teresa Memorial Award, presidential Award for Extraordinary Efforts. So obviously you know you've really God's really blessed your work with this organization and you've styled A21 in such a way to be able to work with world governments, to be able to work with local community organizations. And then, of course, your wife, Christine Caine. Many of us know or have seen or watched on television or been in some place where she's spoken, and that's Equipment Empower Ministries, where she goes out and does speaking like that, like she does at Mariner's Church in Orange County and other places across the country and has done here at Gateway and other places. It's an amazing, remarkable ministry. Where did the two of you meet? 12:03 - Speaker 3 We met at Bible College. She came in to do a lecture on community-based evangelism. She was a guest lecturer. The evangelism lecturer had something else on that day. I think it was probably a fishing trip. 12:19 - Speaker 1 It was a God thing. 12:21 - Speaker 3 Yeah, it was Absolutely. And Christine came in and everybody had known Christine karyophilus, um, or Christine karyonolak, because she was um, loud, uh, she was passionate, she was zealous and, um, she came in instead of being dressed as a community youth worker. She had been to some meeting and she was a bit dressed up and I sat there in rapt attention at every word that she said you were in the class, I was in the class, fell in love with the teacher. That's awesome, I will say. We were both over 25 at the time. 13:03 - Speaker 1 Just for the sake of clarity. 13:05 - Speaker 3 Just for the sake of clarity. Yeah, and so I went and chased her down and said I'm just so entranced by the community-based evangelism. I'd love to learn more. 13:18 - Speaker 1 I don't need more about community-based. Good for you, man, you've got to have an opening line. It's got to be something like that. Yeah, good for you, man, it's a you gotta have an opening line, it's gotta be something like that. Yeah, you know, I, I do remember uh uh Christine. The Lord really gifted her as a young lady and of course, she came through her own story, which she's given but uh, she was, uh, I remember the first time I saw her. She was assistant youth director of youth alive Yep and which was a huge uh uh national youth ministry in australia, and I remember being at a football stadium with 20 000 young people and uh, with different groups and all that sort of thing. And, if I'm not mistaken, the next day we went out to eat and you sat at one end of the table and she was sitting at the other end and and it's, it's like you had just uh sort of started meeting right back then. So that's a it's. It's amazing to see what's happened in your life since then, yeah, it's been quite a journey. 14:15 Um, the lord's been very good to us better than we deserve yeah, well, maybe, maybe you I mean Christine probably deserved it yeah, well, absolutely, um, yeah, she's in favor and you've got yes, she is, and then you've got two daughters and and so you guys met and then, but where does this? Uh? And then always she had a pulpit gift, you have a admin ceo gift and it just gelled work together right. Always it never had any problems in marriage, so that's awesome. 14:48 - Speaker 3 I'm sure it's been a little iron sharpens iron moment yeah, we, we have different um, we're, we have about as different personalities as it's possible to have, um, and so, uh, we disagree on, on um, how to handle certain problems and, uh, she's greek, so, uh, everything, everything is handled at sort of a level of level 10, intensity from can you please pass the salt? To what? Why are you doing that, uh? Why haven't you fired that person? Why haven't you hired that person? 15:29 um, so it's fantastic, but how the lord puts people together is amazing yeah, and and and we, we work really well together and if we keep it right, then she writes, teaches lovers and mothers and, um, uh, I take care care of sort of the day-to-day of things, and that way we keep her head fresh and focused on what she needs to do. She's getting a word from the Lord for people and I deal with the problems. So it's a great team and we fit together really really well. We love being with each other. We've been married for 26 years and spent most of it pretty much within the same room. 16:22 - Speaker 1 I think. Actually, you know, because every so often we run into each other different places. I think the last place was in Barcelona. Bartholona and Christine was speaking there and we all ran into each other and it's just amazing to see the ministry and the gift that the Lord has given to the two of you. But it comes with some sacrifice and hard work. Nothing just happens. Nothing just happens. How did 821? I mean, I remember the story, if I'm not mistaken, the story of Christine was walking through the airport, Is that right? Yeah, and she saw a missing poster. 17:00 - Speaker 3 Poster for a missing kid. 17:02 - Speaker 1 Yeah, For a missing child. And it just pierced her heart Right then and she wondered how can this child be missing, right? 17:11 - Speaker 3 It's true, and then we started to ask questions about why were these kids missing and the answer was they're victims of trafficking. 17:17 And we said what's trafficking? And from there started the journey of okay, initially we were looking to partner with other organizations, we were going to lend our voice and our support and we were doing a lot of church planning across Europe at the time and we were going to try and find people that we could partner with. And that didn't work out. So we, we started A21 and, um, we thought it would be a shelter in Greece and we'd do something there, and it didn't. It didn't take long before it's one of the. It's a bit like having a kid you, you start the journey thinking this is exciting, and and then all the work happens and uh, the lord, the lord just kept on. He's continued to open, uh, new opportunities for us as A21 and we've been able to partner with amazing things. At the moment we're sort of on the border in Ukraine and Poland and Romania, working with UNHCR, leading sort of the anti-trafficking effort amongst the refugees there. 18:24 - Speaker 1 Yeah, which are right now highly vulnerable. At the time you and I speak. 18:28 - Speaker 3 Absolutely. 18:29 - Speaker 1 Millions of people and, as you mentioned before we went on to the recording, you mentioned highly vulnerable people without a plan. They're just getting out. Once they're out, it's like what do we do now? And there's always enough bad people around. 18:47 It's the thing and I'm going to bring it to this and I want to ask you a couple other questions about you personally but it's something that you and I'm going to bring it to this and I want to ask you a couple other questions about you personally but it's something that you and I have talked about before is it's a supply and demand issue, right? 18:59 So human trafficking drug trafficking is you can sell the product once, but human trafficking, you can sell the product in that sense over and over and over, and you can sell the product in that sense over and over and over, so you get multiple income off of one unit of product. If you want to make it that crass and that's how those people look at it mostly men that do that and you know you and I talked about it it's a supply and demand issue. If there were no demand, the traffickers would not be able to bring a supply. The real demand is when you talk about a child or a young girl or a lady being trafficked for sex. The fact is, some guy somewhere is paying to have sex with a girl that's pimped out, is paying to have sex with a girl that's pimped out Most likely in most often cases, knowing that that's the case, but not caring, yeah, often, very often Right. 20:02 So that demand side, the real issue that we have in our culture today is men, immature men, unrighteous men or, for that matter, righteous men who are acting unrighteously. Yes, all of the above, yeah, so really, if we could change the hearts of men, you change the whole issue of supply. 20:33 - Speaker 3 Absolutely, absolutely. If you eliminate the demand, then you eliminate the need for a supply. But where there is demand, economics kicks in, and somebody will always match supply to demand. In Greece, prostitution is legal and common. One survey said that over 50% of sexually active Greek men use a prostitute once a month or more often, and so it's very common. But strangely enough, not a lot of Greek girls are lining up to be prostitutes. So the demand generates a supply of a huge number of Eastern European and African girls being brought in to meet that demand, being brought in to meet that demand. 21:31 - Speaker 1 When you see all of this, Nick and I'm talking with Nick Caine, with A21, by the way, what's A21 mean? 21:40 - Speaker 3 We had to come up with a name because we had this idea that we're going to start this anti-trafficking thing and we had to deliver a proposal the next morning and it started off as abolishing injustice in the 21st century, and that's kind of a mouthful. And then it went to the A21 campaign, which is still a long email address. Is that the nickk? That the a21campaign.org was still a long email address. So, uh, we became we just a 21. Um so, abolishing injustice injustice in the 21st century. 22:16 - Speaker 1 I love it. So the website is a 21.org. Now, with all of this happening, I want to bring it about personal to you and talking with Nick Caine uh, your wife, Christine Caine. Many of us see her speak. She's a remarkable pulpit speaker and woman of God. How do you, Nick, when you see all of these things and you see all this chaos and you see you look firsthand at the depravity of mankind, how do you keep your heart from, how do you keep yourself from being cynical Right? And how do you keep your heart from, how do you keep yourself from being cynical right? And how do you, how do you maintain the edge? You're traveling, working hard. How do you do that, Nick? 23:00 - Speaker 3 um, uh, so the? The first answer is grace. Um, we're doing, um, what we're supposed to be doing. Like you, we travel a lot and that sounds really glamorous to some people. I always tell people that business travel sounds glamorous until you've done it. For a week, I've been to amazing cities and I could have been going to Cleveland, because I got off a plane, walked out of the airport into a car, went to a office building um a hotel, and left straight back to the airport. Didn't see anything. Um, so it you, if you're, if you're doing something, you want to be doing what God's called you to do, because when you're doing what God's called you to do, because when you're doing what God's called you to do, he gives you grace to do it and he puts grace on your family to do it. 23:56 - Speaker 1 Yeah, so when you speak of grace, you speak of the definition of the empowering presence of God to fulfill your mission. 24:03 - Speaker 3 Absolutely, absolutely. The presence of God, the call of God, the equipping of God, the divine enablement to do it. 24:16 - Speaker 1 Because if you were doing, hey, a good idea, hey, this would be a great idea it would have wiped you out by now. 24:22 - Speaker 3 My life to me, is absolutely fantastic and I love it. I know other people who look at my life and go why do you, how do you do that? Again, I try to. The other part of it is I try to. We try to stay fit. We exercise most days and do and are actively engaged in exercise. And I was out mountain biking with a mate of mine last night and he said to me's like how do you do it? It's like he'd just come back from a trip away for the weekend. He says my heart rate's out of control. I feel like I put on four pounds over the weekend. Um and so so it's. It's call um. It's call you stay fresh by what you do, and that's exercise, that's spiritual disciplines, that's talking to Jesus. You wear out by what you don't do when you don't do the same things. If you don't do your spiritual disciplines, if you don't do the exercise, you have to sow energy to reap energy. You have to sow spiritual disciplines, time with the Lord to keep fresh in the Lord. 25:41 - Speaker 1 Yeah, it's the daily ritual, it's the it's. You have to commit to it, and you commit to it not just because of your own performance, but because you love people. Oh yeah, I mean, that's really. 25:54 - Speaker 3 I love, I love people and I love Jesus. 25:58 - Speaker 1 Um and I love people more. 26:04 - Speaker 3 When I love Jesus better. Um, that's fantastic. 26:06 - Speaker 1 If I don't have some time with Jesus, then people bug me If you didn't spend time with Jesus, you couldn't drive down the four or five. 26:14 - Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, exactly Exactly. But but when you, when you, when you have a grateful attitude, like I look at our kids, I look at my wife, again, if I, if I look at my wife and I don't go, wow, thank you Jesus, I am punching so far above my pay grade. But to me, if you maintain a grateful attitude, then you deal with the stuff that comes along, because we all have stuff Like I got stuff, I got stuff, personal stuff, I got work stuff, I got stuff, personal stuff, I got work, stuff I got. We have offices in 19 cities across 14 countries. There's stuff that goes with it and it comes out to you 24 hours a day, seven days a week. 27:05 Yeah, yeah. But if you're grateful for the fact that you get to do it and that God has provided for you and that God has saved you like we don't deserve to be saved from hell and damnation, but if so, if you're just grateful that you are alive and well and that there's always something to be thankful for, and if you maintain a state of gratitude and thankfulness for what God has done for you, then you can make your way through all of the stuff that happened on any given day. 27:44 - Speaker 1 There are actually some, if you will, general market studies now out of Harvard Medical and some other places. There's one study just came out of Europe. They basically said people with a grateful spirit actually live longer. Isn't that fascinating how biblical imperatives and what Christ taught us actually is being proven by medical science? Yeah, you know a grateful heart, you know it's. Where does your joy come from? It comes from a grateful heart. How could you have peace in the middle of this? How do you find your center in the middle of all the stuff you've seen? It's because I know Jesus and that's what centers us, because you have to be pulled In one sense. What would it be like, Nick, for you and Christine to consistently hear about things and think how do we get over there? How do we do that? How do we solve that? But you really have. How do you stay focused without being pulled? Not badly, here's a good thing over here, a good thing over here. How do you find that focus? 28:55 - Speaker 3 Okay, this is what we're supposed to do. We evaluate everything. Does it fit into our core mission? On the A21 side? It's okay. 29:07 Our core mission is abolish slavery. It's pretty broad. We like to have room to run. So it's pretty broad, we like to have room to run and so. But then so years ago, when we had the migration crisis, we had people coming through Greece that were 50 kilometres from our office. So 30 miles from our office was a major transit point, and we were able to engage that on the basis that, okay, well, we can. 29:36 You've got a bit like Poland and Ukraine now. We've got thousands of people being moved and they're all vulnerable, so we can. It will engage this on the basis of human trafficking, and so we're doing that today in Poland, romania, about a whole bunch of countries in that area, where we're coordinating a bunch of anti-human trafficking efforts with UNHCR and IOM, so International Organization for Migration and UN High Council for Refugees. And then we also pastor churches in Greece, bulgaria and Poland, and so our Polish church is doing a bunch of humanitarian aid because we can and it fits our mission of loving people in Jesus' name. So, and looking after the least of these. 30:38 So in Bulgaria. In Poland, we're distributing food and medical aid and we're helping with relocations of people because it fits under our mission. In Bulgaria, we've built houses and communities for roma people because they're oppressed, and right all that sort of stuff. And Jesus says says, what good is it trying to tell people go and be blessed, um, if they can't eat and drink? So we we try and satisfy those needs and represent Jesus as well as we can. But there's a bunch of things which we don't get involved with because they are rabbit trails and you could go down them and, yes, Jesus does care about them, but he hasn't. It's not something that we can do or we're uniquely positioned to do, and if we're not uniquely positioned and capable of doing it, then we leave it alone. 31:33 - Speaker 1 One of the ways that you find what you're supposed to do. Focus is not about greater intensity, it's about greater intentionality. So you find your focus by what you don't do as much as what you're supposed to do. 31:47 - Speaker 3 Absolutely. 31:48 - Speaker 1 Because it is a broad mission. You could be running here and there, right, all over the place. Absolutely, if you find here's we're not supposed to do this, not supposed to do that, and that's where we trust God in the body of Christ, right, absolutely, the brotherhood of man. And uh, I'm talking with Nick Caine, ceo of A21, anti-trafficking, actually anti-slavery organization. It's just, it's been had an incredible impact around the world. You and your wife, Christine Caine, have that. Their website is A21.org. A21.org and you can go on there. 32:25 You're very active in Ukraine right now. You're very active actually helping those who are vulnerable, who are vulnerable to sexual exploitation when they're coming into Poland and Germany and other places, and so you can go on 821.org to see more about the mission and also you can give and donate there to help them in that mission. That would be an awesome thing to do. And we have some history when we talk about Christian men's network. As a founder of this uh brave men podcast, Christian men's network, on Paul Louis Cole and my father, Dr Ed Cole, when you were a young man, I, if I'm not mistaken, it seemed to me it was after, uh, after a class in school, you would come over to uh, Michael Murphy's office and duplicate my father's tapes for Disappearance in Australia. 33:18 - Speaker 3 I would duplicate them. I would put sleeves in the VHS video cassette boxes and pack the tapes into the boxes. I would set up the address labels and post those cassettes out to men all over Australia. And our Christian Men's Network office was in a converted toilet in the base of the building. 33:49 - Speaker 1 It was at the bottom of the old council chambers. 33:52 there it was at the bottom of the old council chambers in a storeroom and a toilet, and your pastor, pastor Brian Houston, had a great commitment towards it and Michael Murphy, who now has Leaderscape and is on the board of Christian Women's Network, caught the vision. Pastor Brian said go for it, let's do it, and really touched the lives of thousands and thousands of men across Australia and really all over that part of the world and in Southeast Asia. Now in Vietnam we're training. I don't know if you knew this. We're right in the middle of training 2,700 pastors on how to disciple men and we've had three broadcasts. We've got another one coming up next week. We've done translations into now 44, 45 languages. 34:42 - Speaker 3 11 languages in. 34:43 - Speaker 1 India. So January of 2023, we launched India with about 14 languages, with Maximize Manhood, and so the stuff that you were part of kind of that infancy of making stuff happen. Nick, has gone around the world and it's amazing to see how many things you've been involved in over the years, you and Christine, particularly with Youth Alive and some of the amazing ministries that came out of there. I'll never forget you had a friend, stephen Crouch, right, yep and steven would duplicate, if I'm not mistaken, he would duplicate tapes of pastor brian in the morning. 35:18 You would duplicate tapes of my dad in the afternoon yeah I remember his wife, donna, came up to me one time about seven or eight years ago and just grabbed me on both shoulders. She said my husband is who he is today because while he was duplicating pastor Brian's tapes, he was listening to your dad. 35:38 - Speaker 3 It's true. My wife and I still quote your father to each other regularly. 35:48 - Speaker 1 Well, hopefully it's not like my mom and dad, my dad Ed Cole and my mom Nancy. They got into a little discussion this is about 27 years ago and so my dad thought, oh well, I think I won that discussion. And he opened his newspaper at the breakfast table and sat down. I was sitting there and my mom had walked away and he goes you know, it's one of those man-wife things and he goes okay, well, I think I won that one. She shows up about two minutes later with his book maximize manhood and she sets it in front of them and says I think you need to read your book again. 36:29 - Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. 36:31 - Speaker 1 So that's two things you're committed to what you confess, what you confess, and then be careful what you write. 36:38 - Speaker 3 Yes, yes, it's true. We always, as when our kids were all young, we would tell them sort of you know what happened to the children of Israel when they were, when they murmured, grumbled and complained. They died in the wilderness. And we had got to a hotel late one night and a number of things had gone wrong, and Chris was talking about some of the things that hadn't gone right for the day, and my youngest daughter, Sophia, would have been four at the time and very happily but innocently looked up at her mother and said Mum, you know what happens to the children of Israel when they murmur, grumble and complain. 37:23 - Speaker 1 Murmur, grumble and complain. 37:26 - Speaker 3 It's like okay, everybody burst out laughing, sophia not quite understanding what she'd done, and we got on with. We got on with it with a grateful attitude. 37:38 - Speaker 1 It's fantastic. 37:38 - Speaker 3 You're committed to what you confess. 37:41 - Speaker 1 Well, I'll tell you what I'm a Christian men's network. And now we're 45, 46 years old, ministering to men and raising up a standard for manhood, and that is that manhood and Christ likeness are synonymous. And my father? It's been 20 years ago next month that he's been gone. 37:59 - Speaker 3 Wow. 38:00 - Speaker 1 It's pretty amazing, huh, but I just thank the Lord for what you and Christine have done and we pray blessings on you. I'm talking with Nick Caine, with A21 and Equipment and Power Ministries, and I thank God for, as you and your wife pray together and pray over these things, what the Lord's put your hands to. And also, it takes a real man, a man who's secure in who he is as a man, to be able to pray with his wife and then send his wife up on the stage, because a lot of people would say, oh, there's Chris, but they don't necessarily know Nick. But the power and the strength of the two of you is, as you said, that complementary natures that the Lord brought together in such a powerful way and I don't know, you know, if she could do what she does without a man like you being there and you guys praying together. 39:04 I'll never forget I guess I'll say it was our conference about three years ago where she got up and she talked about some of the things that we do that are so narcissistic, and she spoke with such a boldness and such clarity and and such a who would? I've? You know, Judy, and I will every so often well, maybe it was four years ago, but it wasn't that long ago and it was such a strong word and but it was the right word to be spoken and and she could speak that because she had her covering there, and I think that's what God's done with you guys. 39:39 - Speaker 3 It's powerful to see, bro we're a great team, um, um, so we, we feel like God put us together. Um, uh, we're complimentary. Um, she doesn't want to do what I do and I don't want to do what she does. If I had my way, I would stay in the background. I'm very happy to drive from out of sight, but again, it is a God thing that he would put two absolutely divergent people, personalities, um, together, both visionary, both, both leaders, um, and give us the ability to, to work together. Give her, who's probably one of the strongest, most capable, smart people. I know the willingness to um, to to be part of a team, and Chris is the ultimate team player. Um, she, she's always got an opinion on on which way to go, but is is willing to defer um once, as long as you can give a rational reason as to why, then she, she's like okay, well then, let's do it that way. 41:02 - Speaker 1 Well, Nick, thank you really for you and and Chris and your two daughters and your family and loved ones and everybody who's. It's a sacrifice. You know you talk about travel and all that sort of stuff. This is, this is not easy work, and so we pray God's increase on you and his favor, and also we pray protection around you and Chris uh, heart, mind, spirit, body, every part of you, because this is such an important work. Talking with Nick Caine, A21.org, and Nick's great to talk to you, great to just see your face and hear your voice. You know it's so seldom we get to intersect like that Maybe once a year. We run into each other someplace and text every quarter or so, but you're one of the champions, one of my heroes, and we thank God for you and Chris Caine. 41:51 - Speaker 3 It's mutual. Be assured, we love you guys. We're so proud of you for what you're doing. I remember meeting you many, many, many, many, many, many, many years ago, when there's decades involved. You know that it feels like a long time ago and feels like yesterday. 42:11 - Speaker 1 Yeah, it does. 42:13 - Speaker 3 And we're grateful for the ministry of of you and your dad. And again, I'm I'm with donna crutch. I I'm a long way from perfect, but I'd be a heck of a lot worse if it wasn't for the ministry of your dad trying to straighten me out. He, he was incredibly profoundly impacting in my formative years and I still, like I said, we still quote him to this day. Some of the greatest wisdom wisdom doesn't get old. I don't always. I don't always apply it, but when I do it I'm better for it. 42:50 - Speaker 1 Better for it. Yeah, thanks, Nick. Thanks for taking the time, man. God bless you both. 42:55 - Speaker 2 God bless you. You've just experienced Brave Men with Paul Louis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian Men's Network. Connect with Paul at cmn.men or write to him at Paul@cmn.men.