Dad Issues With Dave Novak; Is There Healing From Father Wounds?

00:00 - Speaker 1 That's the big lie, right, is that if? If he'll change, then then we can change, I'll change. Yeah, and and, and. So we keep pointing the issue at somewhere else, to where the it comes to the point of no Cuz, he's living fine, she's living fine. Whoever it is, I'm the one with the one. Yeah, my issue now, and so that's anything. There are no more dad issues, because it's like I'm taking possession of this issue now. 00:29 - Speaker 3 So good. Hey, this is Paul Louis Cole. You're listening to the brave men podcast. I'm fired up about it today. 00:42 Father wounds, we talk about it, we all deal with it. If we're really honest, every single one of us as men has some level of father wound and for many of us it's unresolved. Story after story after story, I put him in a book called just a bartender, about men who who had to walk through Forgiveness and Dave Novak, who's our conversation today, had to walk through that. And then he not only walked through those things. As a Pastor of Streamline Church in Sacramento, california, he and his wife Laurie, who have drunk two grown children, he began to counsel men. And then he went to Folsom prison Begin to minister and he realized the things he had walked through himself were part of helping others be healed. So he wrote a book called no more dad issues. In fact, is this gone full on with this thing and started F2 project and Gone full-time with it and left the church in some great hands. He's still based out of California, but he knew that, that he was watching results happen when men begin to deal with and grapple with reality, real issues, things that were painful, things that for many of us would've tucked away, would place somewhere inside our heart. We go, yeah, I'll deal with it, you know Someday, or I'll never deal with it, let's tuck it away. It's just the way it is. But I believe and and then I wrote a book called just a bartender, that that walked through the life of Nehemiah. But in that book I talked about the power of forgiveness and the power of forgiveness and in terms of Opening and releasing your heart and releasing things out, getting rid of it. It's been so powerful. I had story after story and Dave Novak has the same thing Great book fired up about it. 02:31 But but let me tell you something about that. Dave didn't do this in a vacuum. Sam Huddleston, a man whom I know and respect, wrote the forward for this book. He had other friends who have come around, other pastors, leaders, other men who helped him walk through this and have been part of helping him launch this ministry. He just don't do. Life alone Doesn't work. That's why at Christian men's network we really champion Getting together in groups of men and you may get together like Lakewood Church. 03:03 Just send me a photo we got, you know, I don't know a hundred guys in a class. You know maximize manhood class, which is our flagship book and resource tools. There's study guides that go with that. You can find that at cmn dot men, but they send me the photo, but what they do is they break up into smaller groups, even after they meet as a larger unit, and those small groups, you know, basically travel with each other. They, they carry this along and so they can. 03:31 You got a guy you can text and go dude, it's not going well today. You know that thing I talked about last time. You know that thing? Yeah, I know that thing. Yeah, yeah, it's happening today and we can pray for each other and walk with each other. And I just got a I got to what's app photos in yesterday and today this morning from Cairo, egypt, of two groups of men meeting with maximize manhood in Arabic. 04:01 Fired up about that, thank you for those of you who are partners and part of that, and if you'd like to be part of that, go to cmn dot men, help underwrite the brave men podcast, and every gift also underwrites the things we're doing in over a hundred countries around the world, and one of those I'm fired up about it it's Cairo, egypt, because out of Cairo, we're touching every Arabic speaking nation in the Middle East, and that is. We've been on a, on about a. Well, we've been an eight-year prayer and conversation on it and the last year and a half Pushed on it found the right timing, the right partners, the right friends, like Ferris Abraham, tremendous teachers like Steve for Trevino and others, and so we got a team going over in May of this year who are recording this and and and then on a regular basis a couple, two, three times a year, and then into Marrakesh, other places fired up. But you get those photos and you say, man, there's some guys, there's some men meeting together whose lives are not only going to be radically changed, but they're going to touch other men. Hey, and speaking of that right now, you probably know someone you need to share this particular podcast with. So go on, whatever app you're on, whatever platform You're on, share it with somebody, share with a friend, share with two or three guys, share with a whole group of men that you Hang out with. You know guys, you do life with guys, you do motorcycles with, whatever it may be, and and share this with them. Also, go on to the whatever site you're on and hit Subscribe and when you subscribe, what it does. You know the whole algorithm thing. I mean you and I don't know how it works, we just know it's there and would you go on there and hit Subscribe the algorithm? The more men that subscribe on a regular basis, the algorithm puts us in front of more people. So that is part of a ministry, something you can do to help a brother, help a brother out. 05:59 And thank you, dave Novak. You know, in this conversation for getting real, getting honest, getting vulnerable, I mean you know he put it in the book no more dad issues. He's got some other materials he's written. You can find him, dave Novak and Dave Novak ministries, calm and then, anyway, I'm fired up. It's a great day. I'm glad you're here Because here's the deal hope is alive, hope has a day and hope's name is Jesus and there is my place of confidence. I love you, bro. Hey, enjoy this conversation and embrace it and engage it and pray for others as they listen. Also, here's Dave Novak with no more dad issues, talking with Dave Novak and Dave. You've written a great book called no more dad issues, which is, I don't know, is that a promise, is like, if I read this book, to never another dad issue, is that? 07:04 - Speaker 1 No, you know, it was kind of like making a declaration and also trying to give hope at the same time. 07:10 - Speaker 3 So I like that. I like that. Yeah, it's okay. So that does give me hope. No more dad issues. Okay, so now it's a fascinating book and no more dad issues is name of it Dave Novak, dave the Novak ministries, calm. You can get the book on your website or on Amazon. No more dad issues. Now are all dad issues bad, I Mean, or there's some that are worse, or how do we or they're gonna be some normal dad issues. 07:41 - Speaker 1 You know, I I think it's relative. I think, for each person, something that is, you know, is a, is an issue to me, maybe something that is so light and nothing to you. But if it's something that is causing some kind of whether it's turmoil or you know just a nagging pain, you know, thought, memory, whatever, it doesn't matter who you are, I mean it's it's. If it's something that's there and it's hurting and it's connected with your dad, it's an issue, especially if it's Really impacting your life in different ways and it just keeps coming up again. 08:24 - Speaker 3 Yeah, it's causing you to act out in a way, yeah, harmful or unhealthy, yeah definitely. Yeah, it seems. It seems in the book. I want to get into some of this stuff cuz Because I'll get into a minute, but I'm gonna put a little teaser here. Your mom your mom was introduced to your father because your dad and her grandfather were in the same prison. 08:54 - Speaker 1 No, my, my mom's dad and my dad were locked up, dad and your dad. 09:00 - Speaker 3 They were together. 09:01 - Speaker 1 Yeah, how's that one? 09:03 - Speaker 3 Okay, that's the teaser, right there. Well, okay, so, but the book opens. This is really fast. I like the way you opened it, because you're dealing with something and then you don't tell us the whole resolution. You kind of Walk it through because you're at your dad's memorial service. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. And all of a sudden, tell me what you know, contextualize this for me. And then what began to stir in you? Because you're You're wanting to be honest and honoring at the same time. What was the yeah, what was the tension there? 09:40 - Speaker 1 So I it was, you know, because of the relationship my dad had. You know, my dad and I had, I all you know not all the time, but it had piqued my mind at some points, like what am I gonna say when my dad passes away? I mean, what's that gonna be like? And so, over time, it was when he did pass away. It was, you know, I've done a lot of funerals, I've, you know, I've officiated stuff, and I can't go in there and just act like everything's, everything was great and say all these great things, to sit down. I'd feel like there's something undone. 10:21 And so, though we were in a good place when he passed away I think it was good, there was something in me like I wanted to go up and to be able to do something for him. 10:34 For me, that was like I'm being totally honest in putting this out there, and here's how he was great, all these things, but it was not good with us. But, man, something good came out of it. And it's kind of a challenge for me being a pastor, because it's like I know how to hopefully I can ride the line and get to the right, you know, say the right things without going too far as I've thought back about people in the church, at that point I kind of, like you just said the book, I kind of you know it's a teaser just opening up and then walking you through it and I realized when I did that talk and when I shared because it was about 18 minutes or so I kind of did that to everyone there. So I'm wondering are they sitting there like what's he doing, what's he gonna say? And but it actually, you know it, ended up becoming a real healing moment. 11:30 - Speaker 3 Yeah, but you guys, here you are. As a pastor, you've been a youth pastor. You grew up your dad's in ministry because he ran a prison ministry and stuff, right. Yeah, before starting a church, Before starting a church, yeah, and yet there's these tensions. How were those exhibited, dave? What tell me? I mean, it's in the book, but I wanna know what was it that? What were those tensions? How were those exhibited between the two of you? 12:03 - Speaker 1 You know, it was very much where it was like edgy for me because I didn't get the care that I needed, the attention, the investment and those things weren't paid attention to. I was edgy as far as I wouldn't give an inch. I would fight back, and it was bigger than talking back. It was. I'm not going to agree with you, I'm not. You may be right, but I'm not gonna allow you to think that I'm in agreement with you. And in my teens that just brewing there and to where, even when I got older, it really was like you didn't help me back then and I know it's we come from the old school. My dad does the old school. Well, my job is to put food on the table and that thing. And for me it was like, yeah, you did all that but you cared for everybody else. You're a pastor, but where's the time for me? And so when I had football games, the reason it wasn't there is because there was a ministry for kids that he did or whatever. 13:13 - Speaker 3 So it's like those kids me Wow, and so you felt that from a young age. So you didn't feel that sense of affirmation. 13:24 - Speaker 1 Right. And so my dad, in his mind of living out his calling, which you know he was, he was faithful, he was committed didn't realize how much he was. There was a trade off, and so I became the one on the outside to where I'm also giving and helping with all these things. But there's never any time like this is Dave time. This is me and Dave my son. There just wasn't that. 13:52 - Speaker 3 Wow. 13:53 - Speaker 1 And so my goal wasn't to hold him to a high standard, it was just from a kid of you're not coming we don't have time to play together. 14:04 - Speaker 3 You're in town but you're not there. 14:06 - Speaker 1 Right, right. 14:08 - Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, I think you know. It seems to me, dave, that that's one of the mistakes we can make as men, even if we're there like we could be in the same house, like the same building, yeah and not be present. 14:24 - Speaker 1 Right. 14:26 And I've got myself doing it Right. I mean, how much you know I can be on my phone or I can be, you know just things like that. And even you know, the relationship was so became so sensitive and fragile that when a scene would come on, on a show or whatever we may have been in a movie, theater or whatever and we're watching between a father and a son, I'm on pins and needles because I'm like this is uncharted, we don't have like. We don't have okay. We don't have like this love, this caring for son, loving dad, yeah. So it was so awkward, like I can't do this. I don't know what he's thinking, I don't know. And then it was so good when it passed because it had now become something where we had a chasm between us emotionally. 15:23 - Speaker 3 Yeah, like there's a real tension always. 15:26 - Speaker 1 Oh yeah, that was always yeah. 15:29 - Speaker 3 Yeah, you described one time where you're in an event with pastors and there's a discussion on the stage Right, yeah, yeah, there's a discussion on the stage between a father and a son and you, this is and this is great, because I want to go here right now on this and you described how the father and son are talking and they're like, hey, you didn't do this and yeah, and they're like having this emotional discussion in its real life. 15:59 And then you looked around to see if your dad was there, to make sure that he saw it. Yeah, because you wanted to make sure your dad saw it so that he would change. 16:10 - Speaker 1 Yeah. 16:11 - Speaker 3 But then what happened, Dave? 16:14 - Speaker 1 Yeah, and that was the thing, and I think part of it is we as kids, and naturally our parents, no matter what age, we automatically keep them in the seat of leader and there, and so the leader for us to go anywhere, the leader has to do it first, and so that's what my thinking was. But, as I was sitting there looking around and so, like man, I need him to see this, I need it, I need it and we need it, and the Holy Spirit just spoke to me, so clear and just. Lord just said David, your dad's not here. I don't want him here because I want you to change, wow, and I want you to be healed, and I'll never forget that. 17:02 And it had me broken. I honestly, there I am at the church, I don't even know if there was an altar call. Honestly, all I know is at the end I was at the altar, just broken because of the healing that was taking place, and it was like, even though I didn't have kids, yeah, god, you're right, I don't want my kids to have to go through what I've gone through and I don't wanna heal me, help me be different, help me do. And it wasn't about shaking the fist of my dad either, like, hey, I'm gonna be a better. You know, it wasn't that. It was like I wanna be a better man period. 17:43 - Speaker 3 I wanna be a better man. 17:44 - Speaker 1 Yeah, so it was, and I put it in the book. That's the big lie, right? Is that? If he'll change, then we can change, then I'll change, yeah, and so we keep pointing the issue at somewhere else, to where it comes to the point of no, because he's living fine, she's living fine, whoever it is, I'm the one with the issues, I'm the one. Yeah, my issue now. And so that's where, if anything, there are no more dad issues, because it's like I'm taking possession of this issue now. 18:19 - Speaker 3 So good, yeah, we are so good as humans. We rationalize, we're master negotiators with ourselves, we can talk ourselves out or into anything Right, and we're also really good at making sure that it's somebody else's fault. 18:35 - Speaker 2 Yeah. 18:36 - Speaker 3 I mean, you think about Adam. There's Adam and Adam eats the fruit, whatever the fruit was, and he blames. And then when God says, dude, you screwed up, because well, no, is the woman you gave me. He blamed the only two people he knew of. 18:55 - Speaker 1 Yeah. 18:56 - Speaker 3 The entire garden, like the woman and God, and I think, yeah, but bro, you were standing there. So there's that whole thing and we're really good at blaming others, when, in fact, what we need to do is humble ourselves, and this is what you did. Humble ourselves and say, yeah, I need to change some stuff and I need to give some love out. 19:17 - Speaker 2 So tell me about. 19:18 - Speaker 3 Okay, let's go back to your dad's upbringing, which you bring out a lot in the book talking about no more dad issues. Dave Novak, you know V-A-K and this is an unbelievable deal. So your wife's see your dad's, mom's dad. Mom's dad introduces, uh, introduces your mom to your dad because they were imprisoned together. Yeah, yeah, so it's your grandfather, right, that's? I got a grandfather thing in there and I'm trying to okay, yeah, yeah, yeah grandfather, it's your grandfather, yeah, yeah, introduce your mom to your dad, thinking, yeah, this will be a good idea. 20:00 - Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean think about that. Hey, uh, honey, I met this great guy on the cell block. You gotta meet him. 20:05 - Speaker 2 You gotta meet him. 20:07 - Speaker 1 You know he's a stand-up guy. 20:09 - Speaker 3 He's a stand-up guy he never, I mean he never knocked on anybody. 20:13 - Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, he's just a good guy. But, um, yeah, that, yeah, so that was interesting. And then, um, you know, my dad did get saved in prison towards the end and then he did get out and went into, you know, a whole halfway house, transitional living and, um, man, god just began to do a great work. And in my mom, um, obviously they had me, they got married and then he, that's where ministry just took off from there for him. 20:44 - Speaker 3 Yeah, and then your mom did, they get divorced. 20:48 - Speaker 1 Yeah, they got divorced, um, uh, about five years in, and it's something that my mom decided she wanted a divorce, which which was a crusher for my dad. Yeah, because he was determined to like, stay committed, work through and so, and then, at the same time, thinking all my ministry, everything is over right now. 21:11 - Speaker 3 Oh wow, you would think that yeah. 21:13 - Speaker 1 Yeah and so um, so yeah. So he had to work through that. Then he ended up remarrying and um stayed married to my stepmother until she passed away from multiple sclerosis, and she got all that for a long time. 21:29 - Speaker 3 It was what you said in your book right over 20 years, uh, so, uh, that would be. So your dad uh had like he was a juvenile delinquent type guy, like he was in California youth authority or something right. 21:45 - Speaker 1 Yeah, so my, my grandmother actually she couldn't take care of my dad and his three other siblings and they were in Chicago and she actually called the police to come and pick them up. Yeah, and they took him into orphanages. 22:01 Yeah and so he, he was in orphanages and then he went to foster homes from there. They ended up getting split up at times, um, he would get, you know, just harassed at those and and then he ended up just, uh, any kid that doesn't have that kind of love and care, he ended up growing up in the crime gangs, drugs, yeah, well, it's the surrogate family. 22:25 - Speaker 3 It's where you're accepted, you're affirmed Right, you know you do something. Somebody goes, hey, well done. 22:31 - Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, well done, and then you're even bad attention becomes attention period, exactly, yeah, so he had really made a mess of his childhood years at the same time trying to please, you know, sharing there, um, the book about how he was gonna win this big art contest and everything Right, and was hoping he was finally doing something good. 22:55 And then they didn't even, you know, his mother and stepfather didn't even show up and he was first place, you know, and uh. So there were so many things that were like glimpses of my dad wanting good and getting there. But then here he is locked up in juvenile hall or he's locked up in LA county jail and then the crimes just get worse and worse and worse. My grandmother ends up at one point and it was because my dad was so out of control but she takes him to skid row in LA and drops him off and says, bobby, this is where you belong, and kick them out, wow. And so here is uh, it was like maybe 17 or so, 15 in there and he had to figure out life on his own, which which was a super big mess. 23:45 - Speaker 3 See, we see, this is the thing you know, because we talk about no more dad issues and immediately we would think of the issues of my dad towards me right. 23:57 Yeah, my dad towards me. We don't necessarily think of the issues my dad faced like before I was born. Yeah, right, like what put him in a place where uh, where he's performance based, you know what? Put him in a place where he he didn't show affection. What put him in a place where he thought, hey, if I just bring home the money, it's all good. Yeah, like what are those things? Because you don't know that when you're seven, eight, nine, ten years old, Right, yeah, you see how, uh, timmy's dad is with him. 24:40 - Speaker 1 Yeah, why isn't my dad like that? And that's what a dad is. And so you start comparing Because you're young, you don't even think about you know, what was really crazy was I only knew my dad minister, and after I didn't know my dad convict and you know breaking crimes and pimping and all. 25:01 I didn't know that part of my dad's life. So all I'm thinking about is what you do, what you are or not doing to inform me Right, and so you don't think about the upbringing. And actually, over time I began to think of that. But even after he died I really dug back and looked at how like details of things that really that you know spelled it out, though I did know some stuff, it just was details were, were there and we went through stuff and well, a lot of times, I mean we as dads, we don't share our stuff. 25:36 - Speaker 3 One of the things that we've taught in the christians network my dad taught and I've passed it on is you know, share with your children some of your deepest decisions you've had to make. Share some of your history. Share with them some of the hurts. And some of my children now, of course, they're older, they know some of the things that have happened. They watched some of them. They saw the wins and the losses. Yeah, and then what I've done for my grandchildren is I've, when my grandchild, when a grandchild turns 10 and I've had three of them now turn 10. 26:14 I've got another one turning 10 and in about four months I give them a Bible and in that Bible I've spent about six months to a year writing down the stories of my life and I circle scriptures you know it's, in other words, it's personalized for them and I write scriptures about them. Then I put like Psalm 46 this is a scripture when, when Gami that's Judy, my wife's name, gami and Papa had a really difficult situation and this was the what we prayed. We prayed Psalm 46 and we didn't know what to do. And then they'll turn to another page, and it'll be. This is I was in an airplane that blew up and and God saved my life. And you know, you just tell these stories. 26:59 And if you don't write these things down, if you don't actually tell these stories, they don't necessarily come up, particularly when you, when you got a bunch of young kids, yeah, come up around the dinner table, right, you're not gonna say, hey, by the way, everybody, stop, I want to tell this story. You know whatever getting lost in a cave or whatever you know being shot at by. You know Hezbollah or something. You know these different stories that happen in your life, yeah, unless you're out him down. So that's one of the things we've been teaching is write those stories down, put them in something, make remembrances those were the twelve stones for the children of Israel. Make remembrances something you remember. Now, going forward, one of the things you put in your book, and it's 10 things you put right near the end yeah okay, 10 things that you do to work on bringing yourself to a place of health. 27:57 Now let me go back and some before we get there. Okay, that is uh. Or if my dad was alcoholic, am I just doomed to be alcoholic? 28:09 - Speaker 1 No, you know. What's funny is so many are not won't touch. You know a bit of alcohol because of that, you know, and it's so different, it's more of you know, however, that pain hit you, you know, and impacted you and left some wounds that you were. Either you go and resort to alcohol or you just take it and now you're passing on injury to someone else in a different form. That's what I've seen. 28:38 - Speaker 3 Now, now, when you begin to now, you had this issue with your dad. These things happen, different deals, but you basically begin out of that pain and hurt. You begin to act out as a teenager. 28:51 - Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, because I wanted to. You know, I wanted to show him and you know, honestly, it's it's funny because my son and I had that me being a pastor here I am trying to make changes, yet I'm still, you know, working with my, my myself and how I'm handling things. And my son even said the same thing to me. He goes, it just made me want to. We're in a really good place, but when we're in a tough spot, he said, it just made me want to do worse, dad. 29:24 - Speaker 2 And yeah. 29:26 - Speaker 1 And so now everything changed for him when I changed my perspective on that. For me, my dad never came to a place to where he was even willing to listen to that or ask why are you doing this? Or so there was no possibility of changing For me. Shame on me that. God has spoken to me, god has showed me, god has reminded me, god has done all of these things. If I don't change that pattern for my son and for my daughter, and so there that is. I was acting out in that way and then, especially when I, you know, when I turned 18, see you later, I'm out, yeah, and I'm going to do whatever I want with whoever I want you were very honest in the book. 30:17 - Speaker 3 Let me ask you something. Talking about Copenhagen and those things you know. 30:22 - Speaker 1 I just wanted to be able to get in touch a little bit, where you know someone to be like oh, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, dip, of course, so, but did your kids know that some of those stories, or is it? 30:35 - Speaker 3 did you write some of these things and go, ah, you know what I never told my daughter this one. 30:40 - Speaker 1 No, I think you know it's funny is people read the book and like, oh yeah, you, you said that in the book and I'm like I put that in there. It's been a while, you know. Or I'm like, oh yeah, I did, I didn't mean to do that, yeah. So so like right now I'm even wondering is we're talking, man? What all all the different stories were that I put in the book and and some things. 31:05 But I've always been really transparent and honest with my kids and you know there's a lot of things I'm not proud of, and you know I'm. I put things in the. You know I put things in the book so people can feel that you know, this is normal guy, god broke through. There's some real world stuff I'm not proud of, you know, just trying to find myself and there was so much pain that I was going through and a lot of it I didn't realize how much it had to do with in different ways, whether with bosses or things that it was always the root of. It was always what my relationship with my dad was like. 31:44 - Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. Well, you know this is so the book. Talking to Dave Novak, the book is no more dad issues. You talked about hope and vision for the future in in you gave a number of things in the book. I think it's really important for parents to get this, for dads, take responsibility for your behavior and in other words, take responsibility yourself, be affectionate on purpose. I you know that's an interesting one right there, because I do know a number of guys very busy with their businesses and they're like dude, I don't have time to do all this stuff. I'm just trying to get stuff done. And how does a man find time? You know you've got 10 things. Listen with understanding, give freedom to fail, speak life Is this we're talking about? Taking away from all my business stuff. How am I going to be able to do all of this? 32:41 - Speaker 1 Well, I, I think you know, and I I've been spent a lot more time with guys you know recently, whether in Folsom prison or in churches or wherever. It's interesting the places that this has taken me. 32:56 But it's your family, is your business, and so many times for men is especially we're escaping home because we got stuff going on at home that we're not that great at, and so at work, we're the hero. So we'll work extra hours because we're so good there, oh wow. So we don't go home because that's where we're not the we're not the hero when we walk in the door. We haven't done this, we haven't done this, and so so now I don't even know how to be a dad, or I don't even know how you know how to address my kids. And I had a guy that I was. I've known him since he was a teenager. 33:38 I was his youth pastor at one point and he was telling me how, man, when I go home, you know she, I'm unhappy, she's not smiling or being nice, kids are crying and all of this. And and he was working all these hours, great, paying job and doing all this. And I said you have your ladder leaning against the wrong wall, bro. I said because the only people that are going to remember you 20 years from now and you're going to impact their life Isn't those bosses, isn't those coworkers, it's going to be your kids, and you're going to be, and you're going to be, so successful there and wonder why there's so much damage in your life. I said you'd be better off taking a lower paying job, working lower hours and being your kids lives and be so happy at the end of their childhood and in your life. And I just think you know again. A good reason why a lot of guys are like that our businesses, we got too much going on is because we have bad issues that are fueling that. 34:42 - Speaker 3 Wow. So we feel better about that. So we spend time doing that. This is really good point, Dave. So we spend time doing that. We may not be the hero, but at least we find our identity there. 34:56 - Speaker 1 Yes. 34:57 - Speaker 3 We're not finding our identity in these two children. My wife, I come home. This stuff's not done, that's not done. I forgot to pick up something you know yeah my kids are doing new math. 35:11 I don't know why I had to come up with new math or whatever the standard, new standard, whatever, right, you know, I mean, we're not going to the moon anymore. So, and you're right, man, this is so good for us to think of and to take in, dave, because we do do that. We go to the place that we feel, we feel that place where we're the hero or where it feels good for our heart. Why does a guy spend hours at a local bar? 35:43 - Speaker 1 I know he's. That's it. It's. Why do guys spend every night of the week on in the softball league? 35:52 - Speaker 3 Yeah, oh man. You know, wait a minute. Now you're messing with us. 35:59 - Speaker 1 But you know what I'm saying? Or bowling, or whatever it is, that you're doing it because you're so good there, you feel great there, but you go home and all of a sudden the tension just comes in, and so now we're, and we and here's the thing the guys don't realize that it all changes when I decide to confront where I'm being irresponsible or responsible at, and I'm going to make changes for that to happen. And so there are things like one key thing, mike, that would frustrate my daughter and my son and my wife was when they would be talking to me about something and I would just be looking at my phone and they said all you do is just say uh-huh, yeah, Okay, uh-huh, and I blow them off. And it came at me several times to where I made a decision. They didn't even know it. I didn't tell them because I didn't want to over promise. You know I wanted to. 36:57 - Speaker 3 You know I wanted to make sure I came through right yeah. 37:02 - Speaker 1 So what I started doing was I just made it and I put it in the book, I believe is that I started taking my phone and whenever they start talking to me, I turn my phone over. I want a number one. I need to do that for me, so I can't look at anything. There's no Dean that comes on, but also they know he is paying attention to me right now. 37:22 - Speaker 3 You know what you're talking about, dave right now is you're talking about? Because every man you know like if I coached Little League and stuff, I'm sure you've done a bunch of those things and every guy, every man you talk to who's a dad. If you say, hey, would you protect your son right there or your daughter with your life, they go yeah, of course, absolutely. Would you jump in front of a car? We do take a bullet. Well, I'll tell you something right now Turning your phone over is the same as taking a bullet, no difference. You tell me you're going to take a bullet, but you can't turn your phone over. Seriously, right, really Right, I hope. Whatever that is, I don't care what it is. You might be betting on a game, I don't care. 38:05 - Speaker 2 Yeah. 38:06 - Speaker 3 I mean that deal right there. And I've had to learn that because I'm dealing with 24 seven. We've got stuff we do all over the world so there's always somebody hitting something, you know. 38:17 - Speaker 1 Yeah, and you know it's, it's, it's just a matter of your you know pattern, how you're going to pattern your life and build relationships, and you know all the areas to where you realize this is I'm acting this way because this is coming from somewhere and I've got to cut this off and I've got to create a new model, and so that that's where a lot of those changes happened, because I wanted my kids to have a better childhood than I did, and one of the most loving things you can do as a dad is listen. 38:58 Yeah and not listen, we're busy. 39:02 - Speaker 3 Not listen with okay, I'm going to fix this, right. Yeah, that's always been my problem. I remember one time my wife told me this is a number of years ago. We had our businesses and everything. She just looked at me one day and she goes I am not your employee, like I'm solving stuff, right? 39:24 - Speaker 1 Yeah, well, you know something and, and the thing is, is that so many of us most people especially I've been, you know, a lot more meeting with people one on one now that after I left my church. It's really based on, you know, the topic of the book etc is, for the most part, everybody believes, not everybody. Most people believe their dad loved them. They really do, deep down. Here's the difference. Sometimes being liked is way more important. 40:00 - Speaker 3 Yeah. 40:01 - Speaker 1 And I want my kids to know I don't want them to, you know, when they're older, just think like well, I know he loved me. I want them to know. No, I liked them, I was interested in them, I wanted to be with them, I like talking to them, yeah, I like. And those are the things that I think make up a big difference for dads that are too busy have all this stuff going on. And it goes back to like what you're saying, with the listening and being in the moment. 40:29 - Speaker 3 There's a guy that you probably, I'm sure you know who he is. He's a mentor to me over the years, tommy Barnett, who passed her to his son, pastors and now big church in Phoenix, arizona, sure, and he impacted my life deeply. We were doing some projects. We helped them build a thing called the dream center years ago. We did all the media and so forth and I remember sitting with him and we had just been out to the angels hospital and they were just looking at that what is now the dream center, la and it was just the star of it. In fact it was still called I forgive, it was called. It was a university church or so they had a different name for it Before. It was called dream center. And I remember sitting with him and we were talking about some things and I said he said well, I've got to head out because I'm headed to my son's practice. You got two boys, he's headed to their practice. He goes yeah. He said this is what I do. Now. 41:27 This is the guy who had over 200 ministries, real famous huge church, a lot going on, and he said yeah. He said he said I take a folding chair. And this is back in the day. So everything was in print form. So he said I take my correspondence my secretary gives me, I take the folding chair and I sit there and I walk through all my correspondence, making notes, writing things back, stuff people are going to do this and that. Well, I sit and watch them practice and they were on. I can't forget. I think it was baseball and golf and something else. And something else at the end of it's Luke and Matt. And at the end of their school career, the two of them Luke Sealders, the coaches in that school gave Pastor Tommy an award as the parent of the decade or something like that, as he was at almost every single one of their practices. 42:24 And here I am all taken up with the stuff I'm doing and I had to do a lot of traveling but I never forgot that and I thought, if that guy can do that right, with all that stuff he's going on. He was famous within his denomination and within the church world, around the world, and he had speaking engagements and this and that and this and that. And I learned right then and I began to put my children's calendar on my calendar before I set my business calendar and even today, like I've got a calendar here that's got birthdays for next year in it of my grandkids. Like everybody's birthday, I've already got my granddaughters. My oldest is graduating from high school. I've already got her graduation date circled for next year. This is six months away. It's already in my calendar marked circled and nothing can take it. 43:16 - Speaker 2 Yeah. 43:17 - Speaker 3 I just got an invitation to go for some stuff we're doing in Mexico and I thought, look at that, can't do that Because it's in there. So set your personal calendar first. That, that's as affectionate showing up. And there's this, that is so good, nothing like showing up, dave. And so now, because affection is not all, just hey, you know a hug and a thing, is it? 43:41 - Speaker 1 Yeah, right, it's T I M E. Wow, you know, and that's how it's felt, and being able to just be there. You know, as you're thinking about there, as you're talking about the calendar, I think, man, what would it be like for our kids to look in our calendars and see their name all over the place? Yeah, totally, you know. I just I mean that that vision came to mind. You know something on the on the other side of this, I don't know if you, if you've heard of, if you heard about this, but Jimmy Johnson, when he was brought into the Hall of Fame for football because he passed it, not passed, coached, coached. 44:24 Same, thing, same thing these days. 44:27 - Speaker 3 Networks. We coached networks without industries. It's all new. It's a new world. 44:31 - Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, he. You know he was giving his inductee Hall of Fame speech and, as he, this was a heartbreaker for me and I don't even know if many people caught it, but he was talking about all the championships, from Miami Hurricanes to the Dallas Cowboys and and all of these things he did and all of the athletes that he would go and watch him in college and play and then he would go to high school games he'd be watching these kids are trying to recruit to colleges and all of this. And he said this he goes. And his older boys were there. You know they're probably in their 50s or 60s, whatever, and he said I never seen them take one snap on a Friday night. 45:16 - Speaker 3 Wow. 45:18 - Speaker 1 How I just thought oh my gosh, this guy's watching all these other teenagers play. Yeah, yeah, not, he said it himself, not one snap. 45:31 - Speaker 3 Did he say that as a regret? 45:35 - Speaker 1 Yeah, he didn't like. I don't think he vocalized it, as this is a regret of mine it was. It was just a hard truth. I think he just has a hard truth. 45:46 - Speaker 3 Yeah. 45:46 - Speaker 1 And that is such a man that's so painful to have your dad too. 45:53 - Speaker 3 You know, here's the deal You're going to miss some things. I traveled a lot in my business and then with the ministry that I'm a trustee of. Now I think it was our 40th anniversary. My son, brandon, stood up with a lot of friends there and so forth were doing a little celebration thing. He said you know, my dad was gone a lot. I travel a lot because in our business we had offices in different parts of the world and in different parts of the country. So my dad traveled a lot, he said, but I never. He said but I always felt safe and I always felt loved. 46:29 - Speaker 1 Yeah. 46:31 - Speaker 3 And I think you can, I think you balance that. There is a balance, because a lot of us have businesses where you know, like especially a startup, it's going to take some extra time and, as long as you know, okay, for the next three months, four months, starting this new business, it's all on it's 24, seven, and then we're going to schedule some family time. You know, in that fifth month, we're going to take five days. We're going to go away, we're going to sit by the lake, something, in other words. What happens for us as men, though, is we get into this pattern, and then we don't break the pattern and we're not present and we're not living in reality. Such good stuff, dave. Tell me about F2. 47:15 - Speaker 1 So the you know, it was March of 2023 that the Lord spoke to me and told me to resign our church, the one you had planted, the one we planted, and we were there for 15 years and I've written the book was about six months old and I thought maybe down the road I could see something like that happening. But the Lord spoke to me really clear one day and just said I want you to resign. I've given the vision to somebody else, and so with that, I end up resigning my wife, who's man so incredible in faith and was totally in alignment, and we're I mean, it was, it was so awesome where it was that we ended up leaving in June of 2023. 48:07 And a month later, and the Lord made it really clear that I wasn't to take a full-time job, I wasn't that he wanted me full-time in this and all that was about yeah, this was just a book and speaking if I got invited, but it was God gave me this vision for a ministry called the F2 project and that is fathers to fatherless and addressing the fatherless needs, not only physically present or not, but also emotionally present in scars and wounds, and so the two big thrusts for us right now are healing that issues, which I'm writing a study guide for my book. Right now I'm close to finishing starting groups, freedom groups to help people go through the book together. I'm going to be videoing some master classes just for people, just to continue to grow through dad issues, and so we got a couple projects and then the other part is helping dads become heroes and so, on that part, what we're doing is and we're launching our first one it will happen the day after the Super Bowl. 49:15 - Speaker 3 Okay. 49:17 - Speaker 1 And so what we're going to do is we're going to pull churches together, get as many dads together for six weeks of training on being a hero, because our kids want us to be heroes, and so we're going to teach them. There's six different things they're going to learn over those six times, those six meetings as far as how to nurture, how the relationship with a mother, whether you're married or not, how to discipline, how to celebrate, even address as manhood in your history itself, and so we're going to take them through this. And there are more, there's more material out there that we can put together. This is the first set that we're like let's just get the first wave and get as many guys through this as we can. So I'm going to be networking with some churches here locally because of where we are and man, we're going to just see something great happen, and so I never you don't see things unless you're obedient. 50:16 - Speaker 3 Yeah, it was like it's a, it's a what is it? The third Indiana Jones where you had to step out into nothing? 50:23 - Speaker 1 Right, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, and I didn't even know it was going to appear until you step out, yeah, and you know, even speaking with you or being in different places, and I'm like how in the world is this happening right now? And you know so it's, it's. 50:39 I'm really excited about what's happening with the F2 project, and then also I'm writing a new book. I'm beginning to write it called the fearless man, and this has to do with a lot of what we've talked about. I have a heart for us to handle the issues deep within our soul. Yeah, so many times and I've seen myself do it with men is we teach them the faith practices and we have those things, and maybe we're trying to do that while they're just hurting inside and we're trying to tell them to read their Bible. When? What do I do with this pain though? Yeah, and so I'm. And then in society, we're told to be strong. No tears. 51:27 - Speaker 3 Yeah, be the man. 51:29 - Speaker 1 And so the so the goal of this book is facing the intimidations and struggles on the inside. So how to? I'm going to go through a list of Bible characters and their different struggles. So vulnerability, insecurities, we're going to get to real stuff, you know, accountability and all the things that we don't do, because fearless men there will no tackle those things. And if you have, if you are fearless and going on the inside of your life and in your heart, you're going to be fearless on the outside, and so I'm really excited about just this new project coming together. And again, this is something I. It was after I left the church and follow God that now this came together too. 52:19 - Speaker 3 You stepped out following the what's it? What's a batterson following the wild goose? 52:25 - Speaker 1 Oh yeah, wild goose chase. 52:27 - Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, it's like. Yeah, it's exactly what it is. Dave, dave Novak. So you guys you and your wife Lori planted a church, streamlined church, sacramento area. You're actually going down to Folsom prison on a regular basis. 52:44 - Speaker 1 Yeah, so, yeah. So one thing that we you know, especially with developing the, the study guide, is going through a six week process of a sessions. I did it with a group in a church and then I did it with a handful of guys at Folsom, and so we just go through the book Each time we get together, we talk and we meet and we discuss the book and it's crazy how much of these guys are in there. And we know the. You know the percentage of population of prisons. It's like 80% don't have dads or fatherless. Yet I'm in there with these guys and they don't even really they're not convinced they have dad issues until we're going through this. 53:29 - Speaker 3 And then all of a sudden it comes out. Yeah, I think three 3% in the United States, 3% of the prison population is in prison with their dad. Hmm, they're at the same time. You know it's rough and we know that, yeah, fatherlessness is a leading indicator of poverty. Also, it's one of the core issues in incarceration, because men act out, because we act out out of our pain, Right, and then we do stuff that's hurtful not only to ourselves but to others, yeah, and so we do act out or whatever. 54:05 - Speaker 1 One guy said this and it really blew my mind. He had committed a couple murders and you know slew other crimes with it and he realized he was angry and I was just like, well, you have this anger, what would it come from? He goes. When I would get into these situations, I didn't know what to do because my dad never showed me and that would make me angry. So it wasn't like he was a ticking time bomb necessarily, as much as he never knew how to deal with the dad issues, and so when things come up that he had a deficit in is where his dad wasn't present and didn't help him learn how to cope with anger, just kicked in and he responded out of emotions. 54:48 - Speaker 3 Dave Novakministriescom N-O-V-A-K and the book is no More Dad Issues and the F2 project and man fired up about what you're doing, dave. It's fantastic. 55:02 Thank you so much Thank you so much, brother, and I hope some of the guys listening right now will make use of that, get that book, put it into play in their lives. You're coming out with a workbook on it, and so we just pray. Every place that you put your feet is holy ground, man, and what you put your hands to a prosper. And we just pray right now. Father, in the name of Jesus, I thank you for the brother who's listening right now, who just heard something. May it not even have been what we said, but what was heard in the anointing and power in the presence of your Holy Spirit. I pray, father, my friend right now will act on what he heard. He'll take that little seed, germinate it and act on it so that the future of his family will be a future full of hope and vision and forward love. And we pray that in Jesus name. Amen, amen. All right, brother. Blessings to you, man. 56:01 - Speaker 1 All right. Thank you so much. Good spending time with you, Dave All right, you too, god bless. 56:07 - Speaker 2 Brave Men is a production of Christian Men's Network, a global movement of men committed to passionately following Jesus on the ground in over a hundred nations worldwide. You can receive the Brave Men motivational email, find books and resources for discipleship and parenting at cmnmen. Your host has been Paul Lewis Cole, president of Christian Men's Network, and if you haven't yet, please make sure you subscribe to the Brave Men podcast wherever your fine podcasts are downloaded. Thanks for hanging with us today. We'll see you next time on Brave Men.