BraveMen S4E161: Mike Kai - The Journey to Inspire

It's Brave Man with Paul Lewis Colm, wisdom and courage for the journey. So Mike Kai inspired church and, you know, to me and my wife Judy, you and Lisa are inspired. Like, it's not just the name of the church, if you want. It's like who you guys are. Thank you. So anyway, it's a privilege having you on and you also play a little basketball. Thanks Paul. Yeah, I played a little bit of basketball, a little bit of golf. Yeah, a little bit of golf, a little bit of basketball. But the reason I said is because I was there and we got into a little, like, the court was there. You get a little court off to the side. Yeah, yeah, yeah, first. Yeah, we redesigned that court during COVID, starting renting it out to other volleyball clubs, basketball clubs. Yeah, and so I got a gym right downstairs from my office. I love it. But what was funny was all of a sudden, you like picked up the ball, you know, all of a sudden, we're on. We're like playing horse or something. You're four guys and you're like in it and you were in it to win it. I might add was that yeah, like if we're going to play horse, Mike Kai is going to win. I don't even remember winning. All I remember is walking in that court after you spoke a powerful word to our men. So it was a great men's conference that we were that we had. It was great. Hey, you know, so you've got the church, you've got books you've written. I want to get into the pound for pound in a little bit because that whole capacity piece for me pound for pound concept is really powerful. You said, in fact, you said in your book, it was great. You said, you're talking about other pastors and in the book, you said, I don't want to, I don't ask guys how many people go to the church because I don't want to be judged by the same standard. Yeah, right. Right. I want to go pound for pound. Am I doing what I'm built to do? And I think it's a powerful concept. But man, your testimony, where you came from, you grew up in Hawaii. Tell me a little bit. I grew up in Hawaii. Yeah, I grew up on the big island of Hawaii. That's where you have the one of the tallest peaks in America, if not the tallest monarchy. Yeah, it gets snow periodically during a season, volcanoes, sugar plantations, a little bit of tourism, small businesses, big islands, small town. So my, I think my town had about maybe 1500 people and my graduating class had about 110 people in my graduating class. So the whole school probably had 900 from seventh grade all the way up to 12th grade. So my dad was a police officer. My mom, my mom worked as an administrator in hospital hotel. So we had a middle class upbringing, a good middle class upbringing. My dad was a baseball coach and coached the local high school before when I was a little boy into the state champ, the state finals didn't win. But that's a big deal going to Oahu, on Eluru playing those guys, David and Goliath. That was an athlete, that was a coach and but also businessman and mom was just the glue held it all together with four kids two years apart. You know, small town now, I'm telling you, we're like a small town, like we're mixed rates, right? My mom's half Filipino, half Italian. That's a World War Two baby, you know what I'm saying? That's Hawaiian, Chinese, Scottish, American Indian, roots go way back generations in the islands, just generations. So I had a great upbringing, but it was tough because I was small, I was shorter, I was a December baby, you know what I'm saying? The lunch should have held me back, she pushed me forward, should have held me back. And so there's a little bit behind physically, a little bit behind physically. And that's where the whole pound for pound thing came from. It did, it did. That whole concept, I don't want you to get that in a minute, but then you grow up out of there and you end up in where did you go to school, you went to high school there? I went to high school in the big island and I moved to Honolulu at the age of 17 to go to the University of Hawaii. Right. Yeah, and that's where I met my friend Joe on the side. Now we didn't become friends right away because he was in a senior year, he was going to go play for the Dallas Cowboys. And I was just this, you know, young freshman playing pickup basketball. Too much, playing too much basketball. Yeah, yeah. That was my thing, somebody asked me what college I went to and I told him, the couple colleges I went to and I said the only problem was I spent most of my time surfing and they would be credit for it. But then where did you meet Christ? Where did that whole thing happen for you, Mike? Because you do some stuff, man. Yeah, I met Christ. The road to Jesus was, it was 17 years old, absolutely lost. Like, so I'm away from my comfort zone from my community. I was still running wild at 17. Don't get me wrong when I was a kid. I didn't have Jesus in my heart. I had a religious mind, but not a, not a sanctified heart. You know, I didn't get saved. I didn't know what that, what that meant. I thought it was, I thought it was a brand of Christianity. So I go to the University of Hawaii. There's Christians there. They're witnessing campus crusade for Christ. I go to it and I'm like, I made an emotional decision, but what just happened? So I asked the guys and I loved them till this day. So no shade. So what just happened? Like, what just happened? Well, go read the book of John, the gospel of John. And I'm like, I don't know what just happened. It's like, okay, I did it there. But after that, the enemy came down stronger than ever before. The temptations were greater. I was not rooted grounded. I never went back. And then I met, I'm, it started with meeting a girl. I fell in love at my first real girlfriend in high school. I didn't really have a real girlfriend. I was dead. But the pool was smaller. They were all taken. You know, and so I get to Oahu. And there's and it's, there's a lot of women. The thing is, I was telling some men the other night. I said, you know, before, when you're a follower of Christ, you're dealing with temptation. And these guys are like, yeah, how many guys here are dealing with temptation? They're all raised their hands. They said, how many of you before you became a follower of Christ, you never thought about temptation. They're like, right. I go, yeah, no, it wasn't called temptation. It was called opportunity. Right. So I'm in the wrong. I'm in the wrong place. I'm in the wrong place. Fall in love and lost it. Like lost it. Lost all common sense. Gone. You know what that is. We know what that happens. And that's what happened. Two years into it realizing that this is not healthy for me. I mean, I already knew this is not good. But kept going forward. She she probably had her own struggles that she was dealing with. And we ended up producing a baby. And her name is Courtney. So I'm 19 years old. I'm a single, I mean, I'm a dad at 19. Relationship is not founded on Christ. When church is not even mentioned. And we're two lost kids trying to raise a little baby. And basically we end up living separate lives. Well, in the end, I ended up Paul. I ended up having custody of Courtney when she was two years old. Not legal custody, but I was her. You know, she lived with me. Her mom did not want to be in the picture anymore. Move to the mainland. And so now you're a single dad at 21. I was. I was. And it was the hardest time of my life. You're dealing with loneliness, you're dealing with rejection, you're dealing with purpose. Because I had to quit the University of Hawaii. I had to quit school. So I had, where's my purpose? I was the Air Force RLPC program. I was headed. I was headed there as a second lieutenant. That was the walk on. That's what you pulled on. This is who I am. I'm going to be a pilot. Yeah. This is this pre-top gun movie. I got asked to walk on to the University of Hawaii basketball team. It's Coach Raleigh Wallace's first year. He needed five local boys. He hand picked them. I was one, a couple of guys, Mike Among, Devin Kanola, names that don't mean anything to anybody. But I know them because they were the same age as me. And I got, I got seen playing pick-up ball in Coach Bob Nash. Go say, we need five guys. We can give you just one season. You're going to walk on, though. And you're not going to get a scholarship. I had to say goodbye to that. And then, but at the same time, I mean, we are not realizing. I'm not just embracing my daughter. I'm embracing a future destined for my life. And so I thank God every day that I had the custody and the battle that I had to go through. But I waited for two and a half years for my mother to return. And the writing was on the wall. It was apparent that this was not going to happen anymore. And so I gave it another year. So Paul, I got married at 19. Didn't know Christ separated by the age of 21. And it came to an end by 23 and a half, 24 years old. I waited for like two and a half, three years. When the ink was dry, the hardest, one of the saddest days of my life, proving what you don't want to prove. Wow. I wait. I start, I just wait another year. I'm going to church now. Don't get me wrong. 21, I walk into church. My friends dragged me there. Now, so you say you started going to back to church in the 21. I would call it I would two church, 21. Yeah, not back to church. I went to church. 21 Ralph Moore was the pastor of the church in Kanye only called Hope Chapel. That hope chapel. Wow. Yeah. And my friend Brandon, who I worked with by now, I'm working at American Airlines. I was at Pizza Hut. I moved up the chain to Old Spaghetti Factory because their tips were better. You get $30 a night. You go home with 30 bucks a night and Old Spaghetti Factory. Then I find out that the Willow's restaurant has an opening. So I apply, I become a bus boy. From the bus boy, this hard work, they're not making me a waiter because I'm too good as a bus boy Paul. So they're, they're keeping me down because they need good, good bus boys. Waiters are good. So then I see these valleys. All these valleys are wearing shorts. They're wearing running shoes. They're wearing Hawaiian palaka shirts. And they're eating better than we are. They're watching the left. Right. They're making cash, money, Paul. And I'm watching this. And I'm going, I want to be a valley instead. I want to be a valley instead. So I asked the valley manager if I could ever fill someone's slot that they can't make it. I'm on call. Let me know. I got a job in American Airlines. I'll do whatever. Yeah, no problem. So I end up getting a valley position. The door opens up. I'm making more cash. I'm making a hundred bucks a day, $60 minimum. I'm babysitting fees. Here's how I pay my auntie Myle. Who watches my daughter. Auntie Myle says, Paul, Michael, don't pay me. Just go get me a case of beer from down the street, please. I'm like, I'm gonna go find my auntie beer, dude. And she's, I love Auntie Myle. And it's Hams. She wanted Hams here. Hams. Hams. And so I have waters. If I'm the land that's got waters, waters. Anyway, I go. Anyway, so she's my auntie. She's helping me out in getting ahead. And so one of the valleys is going to become my best friend for the rest of my life. His name is Brandon. Yeah. And Brandon starts, I mean, you got to go to church. I said, I don't want to go to church. Well, I kind of knew what church was grew up in debt. Is that an altar boy? I can't relate. No, no, no, no, you got to come. And he he he started telling me that the music is great. I'm like, okay, what do you have? We got drums. We got drums in your church, guitars and got guitars. What's your minister wear? Jeans. What is he preached from a Bible? Preaches from a Bible? Yeah. And so you got drums. You got Bibles. Man, this is weird. This is like I was foreign to me. And this is cult. It's not come. I'll take you. I said, you can you keep talking to me every week about going to church. Finally, Paul, I have to get him off my back. So I said, I'll go one time. One time. And I don't know who's listening and watching this. You're that one time guy. Right. Well, man, I'll go one time. I give my wife one shot. I'll go to church one time. I'll let that pastor. If he offends me, I'm we're not coming back. If the parking is full, I give you one shot. And I gave Brandon one shot. And I go to church. And I'm in the second role, Paul. And I'm seeing the overhead projector words of the worship words. And they just were love songs to God. And it changed my mind, changed my heart. I start I'm crying. I'm not crying fully, but just tearing. Yeah. I'm in this environment of love, faith. And that's the day I gave my life to Jesus. Wow. You know, Mike, there has to be and some of our friends that are listening right now, uh, you need to be that Brandon guy because Brandon wouldn't leave you along. No, like like your friends and stuff, but he's like, dude, and there's a difference between inviting somebody and bringing somebody. So true. You know, you can just invite like, hey, you want to go, no, okay, whatever. And then it's just done. But when you when you've got a heart that loves people, you want to bring them to Jesus. And you know, you may not know all the right words to say. But if you put them in a right environment, I mean, you're watching here, look at the words. It was an overhead projector overhead projector. Old school. I call it my unsaved mind. I'm calling it Lionel Richie Love Songs to God. That's awesome. That's awesome. And it just it just ticked your heart, man, it just like like the Holy Spirit opened your heart. You know, so often we get into especially these days, man, with a Facebook stuff and all the, I don't know, culture wars and whatever, you know, people get into like information shouting matches to me. And that's what really was a revelation of Christ. Yeah. Yeah. Because because I thought I thought I knew them because I grew up in the Catholic church and nothing wrong with the Catholic church. And I just want to say that, you know, I'm grateful for my roots, my foundation. But let's let's go here. I'm 17. I'm 16. I'm not getting it. It's not going from my head to my heart. Maybe maybe they were preaching the gospel. I don't, maybe, but I just never responded. I was in that environment and I'm grateful for it. But I look back and now I see the richness of it. But I realized that that the Jesus that I thought I knew scared me. Wow. It scared me. Because I would always walk underneath the cross. And I've venerate that. I honor that. But the crucifix has the body on the cross. And as an altar boy, I just always felt like those guys are watching me. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. They were looking at me and I'd walk in this way, walk that way. And feel like I was more scared of Jesus. And the sorrow, the sorrow of Jesus and the pain of Jesus versus Jesus that I never knew. And I came to know the book of Acts, which you are a book of Acts church because you do all the stuff as John Wimbledon said, when did they do the stuff, right? And inspired church talking to Mike Kai, Mike and Lisa Kai pastor and inspired church in Hawaii and a multi-site campus diverse church. But you guys do all the stuff with the book of Acts. They didn't preach Jesus crucified as much as they preached Jesus resurrected. Right. Right. Yeah. Amen. There's the hope. There is not on that cross. Yeah. Yeah. So now where did so now you're going to church? Your life becomes and you're at Hope Chapel. Is that right? You're at Hope Chapel? Yeah, I'm at Hope Chapel. I'm in Hope Chapel. The journey continues, you know. And so now I'm in church weekly. I've eventually joined a connect group maybe about a year later. I see this beautiful girl at church. But you know, I got the blinders on, right? Yeah. You know, you know, you've already been hurt. You don't want to do this again. And but man, I tell you what, I prayed. All I prayed. I said, Lord, I need a wife. And my daughter needs a mother. So if I could please get married. And I prayed specifically because Jack Hayford say pray specifically on the radio. I was discipled on the radio. Yeah. Radio discipled me. Not just my pastor, not just my connect group, because I'd listen to the radio all the time. Yeah, but this is a great story. You're your specific, your specific prayer. This is a great story. Tell that. Yeah. I pray specifically because Jack Hayford said pray specifically. And at first, I was like, well, my God, tell God what I want. But I said, Lord, I need a wife. My daughter needs a mother. And I can't go back to the club and find her. I can't. There's no better place. The girls at work. They don't know Jesus. There's no better place. So you have to bring her to me a church. So can she be five foot seven, gorgeous Chinese and loves Jesus more than me? And I'm telling you what God has delivered on that. And I met her and she met, we met and we went out and we got married. So we've been married for 30 years, Paul. Get out of here. And you guys don't look at it. There's no way to look at all of that. 30 years. It's a goodness. Thank you. That's amazing. I take credit for that. I take a lot of credit. Yeah. Well, yeah, because you've given her a great, you've given her the ability to learn how the ministry for goodness. You just brought her great peace. Yeah. And 30 years and we have now Courtney, Courtney's married with two kids, lives in Portland. Becca just got married to Elijah in January. And Karis is going to play volleyball somewhere at either the D1 or the D2 level. We believe D1. Definitely D1. Yeah, she's yeah, she was like all everything in high school volleyball player. That's a difficult, difficult hard sport, too. So, hey, so now you get married. You're at the church. You become youth pastors, right? Youth pastors. Yeah. Under a ministry of a man, I have great respect for Dr. Rathmore, who's actually written books about planting churches and building and all these things. Now you're youth pastors. And then something shifts. You come home from a trip, as I remember it. And there's a, what was it? It's Jackie's. Jackie, the pastor told you had, I think there's a church that wants you to. Yeah. I'm flying home from a camp in Oregon. And I wanted to be a youth pastor forever. I knew if you're a youth pastor for Ralph Moore, you're going to be a senior pastor. What, you're going to plant a church? That's the pipeline. Youth pastor plant. Youth pastor plant. Youth pastor plant. So I was kind of like, I'm not going to plant. I'm on a state. And I love the covering. I love the benefits of that. My wife worked for the church. My kids were in the church. And then so the executive pastor says to me, he goes, hey, Ralph wants to talk to you. And I'm like, okay, he's like, yeah, there's a church that's interested in you. I said no, but now they're asking you, I'm like, okay, all right. So I'm the second choice. I said no, but he might. Yeah. Yeah. So I go into Ralph's office and I go, hey, he goes, I was vacationing. I said, it was good. How was the camp? I said, it was good. I go, what's up? He goes, oh, well, there's a church that's interested in you. I'm like, what's the name? It says it's Hope Chapel White Kelly. I said, I never knew we had a church in White Kelly. He's like, yeah, we've had it for about eight years now, 10 years. Why? I'm like, nah, I'm not feeling it. I want to know he goes, you got to pray about it. So tell me a little bit about it. Well, it's had five pastors. How many years was it in 13 years, 13 years? It's had five pastors in 13 years. I'm like, whoa, whoa, you already started off wrong. What's wrong with that church? How many demons in that church? Like, what's going on? It's a pastor's graveyard. Five guys in 13 years and they move on. Wow. Got an orphan spirit, huh? He's like, whoa, he's like, yeah, you're right. I'm like, I don't know, man. He's like, no, it's going to be great. Trust me. I'm like, and now I'm getting insecure. Like, he's trying to get rid of me. Yeah. And so no, no, you need to go. You need to go. You need to go. Yeah. He's just right. Right. And I said, I thought you wanted me to plant a church. He's like, no, you can maybe replant this church. I'm like, I'm not feeling it. Yeah. Can you please pray about it? I'm like, yeah, I'll pray about it, but I got a youth camp this week. Okay. Like, I got to pray about 200 kids at youth camp, not 40 people, you know, 25 people left. I'm praying about 200 kids. So I go to the camp part every day. I look over that plane from Makakilo from where Joe lives on the side. Makakilo. I'm looking overlooking the plane. I'm like, I don't want to go here. I don't want to go here. I'm on the other side. I'm on the windward side. I like rain. It doesn't rain over here. I don't want to go here. I got camp and drink my coffee every day. I go up on the same rock and overlook that plane. I'm just looking for a sign because I got to take this serious. Every day, Lord, if you want me to go, I'll go. I don't want to go. Next day, Lord, I'll go if you want me to go, but you got to really change my heart. Next day, God, I'll go if you want me to go, go, but if you want me to go, I'll go. I'll be obedient. And then the next day, Lord, it changes. By the last night, the Holy Spirit is hitting me at camp, not just them. And I'm saying, God, I'll go wherever you want me to go. Stay whatever you want me to stay. I'll do whatever you want me to do. Be whatever you want me to be. And these calls me. The cell phone rings. And she goes, hey, it's fine. I go, what? We just got to offer to five nights at Waikiki. I said, what? No, three nights at Waikiki. For what? Oh, Doug and Karen Campbell said they're so blessed by, you know, us, you know, you helping the son that they're going to give you three nights. And I'm like, great. Let's go to Waikiki. I can't wait to get off this hill with these kids. And she's like, yeah, we got to fast and pray about this church. I'm like, gosh, I'm eating horrible camp food. I don't want to fast. That wasn't the, that wasn't the first thought you had. Who goes to Waikiki to fast and pray? It's like, it's like, I'm not going to fast. I'll pray, but I ain't fasting. Bishop Jake spoke at Lions Roar a few years ago. And I love the fact that you're speaking of Lions Roar this year. I think everybody's just going to be excited. Fire it up. But Bishop Jake spoke a few years ago and he was talking about Sarita, call him and said, hey, we need to take a few days off. And you know, she had this place. She had this place. She wanted to go. And he's thinking to himself. He said, the thing that I realized that real quick was she had a different idea about what this three days meant. He said because she started buying all these magazines. He said, and I'm going down to the pharmacy to refill my prescription. That's hilarious. He said, it's a different idea. But yeah, fast and pray. So now you're fasting and praying over this church opportunity. It's amazing. We're fasting and praying. And we literally are at the double tree hotel. So we're not on the beach. We're off the water about two blocks away. And we're grateful. And you know, we fast. We're literally fasting. We're praying. We're walking the beach. So we're not going into restaurants. We're fasting. We're praying. And when we get done, I look at her and I go, what do you think? She goes, you look like Moses that just came down from the mountain. I see this glory around you. I'm just serious. Yeah. So I think God's changed my heart on you. I think I want to do what he's calling me to do. And I'm scared because it's 40 people. And you know, they keep running out the next pastor. Yeah. Yeah. So I go to see Ralph. I call him up. I said, we're leaving the hotel. Can I come talk to you? I'm going to drop off the phone. He said, yeah, come on up. Because we've only had three minutes to talk about this. So I go into his office and I say, okay, tell me. Tell me why me. Why me? Why are you trying to? Why do you want me to go to the the way out in the west side in the suburbs of like L.A. Why? You know, it's because when, you know, he said when Jackie for started church on the way, it was a church on the way to another part of California. And so the growth came up to him in Van Nijs and actually has past him in Van Nijs. Right. That's going to happen to you. The growth's going to come to you in why Kelly. It's going to pass you and why Kelly all the way into Kapolei. I said, okay, that makes sense. Why not going to Honolulu? I look at artists of Paul, but it's doing great in Honolulu. Wayne Cridero is doing great in Honolulu. Do you think we could do the great in Honolulu? He said, yeah, you could do great in Honolulu, but I just see that there's two huge mega churches in Honolulu. Once you go start on the west side, I'm like, okay. All right. Let me make sense. Third one is the biggest question, Paul. And I said this. I said, are you, is this your way of trying to get rid of me? I said, are you trying to kick me upstairs into management so that you can make room for your son to come home from California? I said, because if that's what you want to say it, just say it, put it out there. Because I have to ask that question because I said, if I fail and you pushed me out, I might blame you. And he started crying, not fully crying, but he had some tears. And he said, you are my son. Wow. He never said that before. He never said I was a spiritual son. Because that wasn't our language back then. And he said, you are son, you are my son. And when somebody tells you that, you go resurrect the church of 40 people. You know what I mean? And leave the comfortability of a paycheck and security and mission strips and, you know, family and all of that. And so I knew that it was time, but here's the deal. It wasn't in six months. It was in two weeks. Because the other guy was done. He was done. He was, yeah, he was bivocational and he held it the longest for five years. His name is Ray Arnie. I love that guy. And so he passed her off said, take anybody you can accept staff. And so he brought me up one weekend. Hey, Mike's God calling Mike to, and he's going to run the youth ministry to Christmas. This is September. He's going to run it to Christmas. This is August. He's going to run it to Christmas. I'm like, well, I'm doing double duty. I'm going to replant a church and run a church into youth ministry to Christmas till his son could come back. And it was hard. It was really hard. But my first meeting, 25 people show up. They start saying, how long you staying? Paul, I tell them longer than you. Let me go. That's there we go. We don't want to be a number. The other church, that went to another church. I was just a number. I'm like, I promise you, there's only 40 of us, okay, on a good day. I can remember everybody's name. I said, I promise you, if you tied any serve, I'll never forget you. And here we are. How long ago was that, Mike? 22 years ago, 2001. 22 years ago. And now it's that church called Inspire Church, multiple campuses, across Hawaii. The Lord's put you in front of. I've seen you speak at conferences in Australia, across the US, Europe. Lord's put you in Lisa. Many different places because that story of all do it is the story that so many of us have a difficult time with. Yeah. Right. And we don't feel like we don't feel like, well, I'm not the guy that measures up. And I think that's where that whole, you know, pound for pound for me, that book. And I want to mention that pound for pound book. You've written a, well, a number of books, but the most recent one that doesn't, that doesn't just happen about excellence. But that whole pound for pound about capacity about, you know, in a sense, it's about rooting for the underdog. It's, it's to do what you can do with what you have. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. Always thinking this or I need that or I wish that or I wish that. And so when you took this, it was like, okay, we'll take it with 25 people. Man, now there's thousands of people that come around that church. You guys are greatest here for the king. We had a greatest year ever this past year. Salvation wise. Decisions for Christ. Greatest year ever. Twenty second year. Greatest year ever. Yeah. Thousands, thousands. It's just awesome. I know God is so good. No, it's, it's just really powerful. You said it in the book. And I wrote a number of, I've underlined a bunch of stuff in your book. How to increase your God, given capacity. But you said this, you, you made this comment, which is great. You said, I'm always content, but never complacent. Yeah. I'm always never complacent. And for some of us, it parsing that word, it's, it's like, I want to be content, but that sounds like kind of laying back. Like I want to piece, almost sometimes sounds like, well, you know, peace means just kind of sitting back, not being agitated. So how does that, how do we actually push forward and still keep our peace? What does it mean to be content, but not complacent? That's great question. That's great quote that the Lord gave me years ago. Contentment, David said, the boundary lines have fallen for me in pleasant places. You've given me a delightful inheritance, right? So what God has given me thus far, I'm content with. I'm not dissatisfied. I'm not itching the cut loose. I'm content where I'm at. I know God has more for me, but right now it is well with my soul. I am content, but I'm not complacent. So in other words, I'm not lazy. I'm not just kicking back. I'm not just, I'm not on Hawaiian time. I've got an edge. I'm looking for opportunity. I'm content right now. Thank you God. Thank you for my base salary, Lord. Thank you for my base salary, but I know there's bonus. I'm always content, but I'm never complacent. So I'm always, that's me. So I'm content. I'm content with what God has given me thus far. I'm content with the reach, the opportunity, the relationships, man, my life is full. I'm content, but my capacity is grown, right? So my contentment is at a different level. So what am I complacent? Now capacity, my understanding capacity is capacity always comes from being stretched. So many men will push back on the stretching. In other words, it's like, okay, there's this thing that's pulling me. Well, I can't be God. It's kind of stretching me, but I believe if we're going to increase capacity, we've got to receive this stretching moments. What have been some of the stretching moments for you and Lisa as you walk this out? I would say the biggest stretching moments are they could be considered I've got so much on my plate. I've got kids. I've got church. That's a stretch. That's a capacity stretching. Capacity stretching, running the church can be leading people, leading a leadership team can be things like we've got a conference and on top of a conference, on top of a banquet and we can services and I've got to reach six times this weekend versus three times or four times normal. That's capacity stretching. Well, I can tell you the biggest thing that stretches my capacity. You know what it is? It is disappointment and pain. That stretches my capacity. When there is a situation where a very discontent rebellious kind of situation that stretches your capacity and it doesn't, it's not like I can't handle this anymore. God, no, no, it's more like no, no, no, something good is going to come out of this. I can handle more pain and if I can handle more disappointment and pain because you're going to encounter it no matter if you're a pastor or a father or a son or a business person, if you can handle, if you can handle that without letting your heart go wrong, you just stretch your capacity. Yeah, you'll only grow your ministry or your business or even your family to the level of the pain that you're willing to endure. And so that's a really big one. Disappointment is not where you are but where you expect it to be. So yeah, Jesus, that gap is the level of disappointment that men live with in their lives, right? So here's this disappointment. Now, how do you how do you move into a place of letting Christ bridge that gap? Mike, how do we do that as men? You know, because I'm just telling this PTSD world that we're living in right now is fought with disappointment because we thought this would happen. We thought this would happen. This didn't happen. This didn't take place. Some things. How do we deal with that, Mike, as followers of Christ? The way I deal with it is scrub my heart. Hmm. What do you mean? Because I got to cleanse this man because if I let bitterness come in, I let the disappointment settle. I let myself think bad thoughts about that person and they're no longer in my life. And that's good. You know, and I got to be able to forgive, I have to forgive people and I have to scrub my heart. Well, there will be consequences, but I still have to scrub my heart. That's been the biggest thing. I don't want to, I want to remain like a David. I don't want to turn into a Saul. I want to have the heart of the life shot. I don't want to be a Gehazi. I want to be able to be like Joseph, but not like his 12, his 11-12 brothers at the room that that discarded him. I noticed people in the Bible all that every time they got over that they didn't get over it. God worked through the disappointment. It might have taken years. Joseph got elevated him to be Prime Minister after prison and falsely accused of sexual harassment and all of that. And then he looked at David, right? David looked down by his older brothers and all of a sudden, here he is and all his son wants to usurp him and he goes, you know what? Go ahead, you can have it. And he walks out of the kingdom while Absalom is with the concubines. And he's not fighting. Sometimes you have to let go and we're fighters by nature, but we have to let go. I'm doing something big. I'm letting go of something this week. And sometimes I could fight for it, but I might hurt people if I fight for it. You know what I'm saying? And so it is forgiveness and scrubbing my heart and change my heart, oh God, make it ever true. You are the potter. I am the clay. It is search me and know my heart, oh God, and point out any weight in me that is offensive to you and not lying to myself. I cannot lie to myself. You know, I have to be honest. I'm hurting, but I got to forgive and scrub that. And God works through a pure heart. Here's what I notice, Paul, the quicker I get my heart right, the more blessable I become. Well, yeah, how does it now? Let me ask you something because laughing about that, it was with Jedadaya, Thurber actually, when we started playing some ramble and you guys got into so, but you're competitive. How do we keep a competitive edge? How do you stay competitive? Because sometimes what happens is people start going, you know, you're trying to push too hard or that's really not Christian trying to, you know, beat these guys up or win this thing or you know, we kind of get pushed back by culture. And here I am as a business guy. And I've got a firestone store in Flagstaff. That thing to be successful. How do I balance that drive, Mike? Because, I mean, you have that, you know, you don't want to lose playing horse. Life. I think that the edge or whatever we're going to call it, I have an edge, I have a competitive nature, I just want it. I'm not a win at all cost kind of guy. I'm winning the lose on purpose or even lose if I lose. I think that if I look at, if I look at men in the Bible that had an edge, David had an edge. Who David had an edge? David was David filled in some areas. We all know that. But man, what I loved about David was David was a warrior. When he walked into a room, I guarantee you the respect that he commanded when he walked into that room. He even had toxic masculinity. He was a man's man. And I think I think that edge comes from reading a lot of the Bible and you begin to see different people in the word of God that actually were, we sanitize it. We renaissance it. Come on. It was brutal. It was brutal. A hundred Philistine foreskins. Come on, somebody. That's brutal. And so being a man and relating it to manhood and masculinity, this is what God designed us to be. Right. God designed us to be champions and to be men who take ground. And you know, it's kind of it's it's like this. You know, I'll I'll say to people, you know, God is love and they'll go, yeah, yeah, so God is love, but he's killed some people. And but it was always out of love, right? Sort of like you're a grandfather, a brother now. And it's like, man, I love you and I love my grandkids. I love you and I love my grandkids. Like it's the same English word. I love you, love my grandkids. But if you mess with my grandkids, you know, my love for my grandkids is going to take you out, right? So the innovation of God and our motivation is because we love people. And so in order to be like your book, that doesn't just happen is about excellence. Why am I why do I want to be excellent? Because I love people. Why do the atmosphere in my business when people walk in? Why do I want it uplifting? Because I love that person. Because I love people. Why do I sell them a car? Why do I want it to run right? You know, not just because I love people. So now all of a sudden, my motivation is different, but I still want to sell a lot of cars. I still want to make that business excellent. Why? Because I love the people that work for me. And I love that that lady who's a secretary and I love that lady who's a production assistant and I love that guy who's is out there putting tires on the car. And I also like to have five other people working here and give them great jobs and have them be in this atmosphere. Right. So I'm telling you, man, this whole, this whole passive Christianity piece that people try to put on us. Like, you know, why do you try to, you know, double your business? Because I love people. Because I love people. And if I double my business, I would put more in that same atmosphere. I'll also have more discretionary income to put into, you know, what you guys, I mean, look at what you guys have done with the Maui fire thing and hope chapel and and kings and all the other churches. It's because people had funding to be able to put millions of dollars into this. You guys have helped so many people and families at inspire church. Now, look at that. How are you able to do that? How are you able to just buy that piece of property you bought? Right. To expand the work to touch more people's lives. Because somebody said, I'm going to expand this business. I'm going to make this thing better. I'm going to be excellent at what I do. And so I, that's why I like and so give me the, give me the website. Where's your and the podcast? You got a great. You can go to thank you. Yeah, you can go to mykai.tv and that's the one stop shop for the podcast and the different books. I want to add one more thing. Yeah. To what you said about excellence. It also, yes, it's because we love people. You want to fix it. Just say it. No, no, no, no, no. I'm going to add one more thing. It glorifies God. It glorifies God. Because when people start seeing you, your business growing, you know, your clientele multiplying and they look at you. What's the secret? God. God. That's so. And then, in the queen of Shiba, when she walks away from Solomon, and she's glorifying God because of what she saw. And I think it's number one, my motive is love. But the fruit is a glorified God. Oh, come on, man. That is so good. That is so good. I never looked at it and loved going till you brought it up. So let's rewrite this book, chapter nine. Let's rewrite it. That is awesome. Love is the motivation. Glorifying God is the fruit. And everything in between is icing on the cake. Dude, I love that. It's the dash. You know, I love that. Mike, talking with Mike Kai, pastor and inspire church, he and his awesome wife, Lisa, pastor, that multi-campus, a very diverse church. And outward facing, you guys, fund ministry around the world. You guys do things not only there in the state of Hawaii. The, you know, again, let me correct that. You're, you're from the big island. And who live in the mainland go, oh, yeah, that's why and this is the US, but why is the US? Just so everybody who lives in the United States, they say, I claim and appreciate that Paul. Yeah. And so to everybody listening all over, I want to thank Mike Kai for being here. And that's K-A-I. It's in my K-E-K-A-I dot TV. And man, here's, and in the books, you've got, you can go on Amazon, you can grab these, you can download them on a Kindle sort of thing. You can, you know, order the hard copy and all that. In particular, these, I thought pound for pound in terms of increasing capacity, that whole piece. And then, and then the book, I think a lot of people with businesses and churches, that doesn't just happen. Yeah. That book is so good, because it really is, it came out of your, it came out of your, if you will, your business background, right? Yeah. And then you actually talked a little bit about that, but it actually speaks of how you operate inspired your church, because from the moment you, you come on the grounds there, and you have to share a parking lot and so forth and so on, but, but in that main, you're main building. The minute I walked in, I remember thinking, ah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This has got that, I don't know, I don't know, Dr. Moore's building, but I knew Jack Hayford very well. And it was like walking into Pastor Jack's thing, because like everything has a place, and everything's just, you know, and that's the way to start it. And I love it, man. I mean, the minute you walk in, you go, oh, yeah. Excellent. We've got to have you back, Paul, either for our men's camp or a man cave. Yeah, I'm serious about that. Or at least just to hang out, you know, so Mike, you inspire me and maybe better person than I thank God. Me too. Likewise, I feel the same about you. And your ministry, and even as we record this, your head of the Philippines is to ministry. And Lord bless you, I pray that everything you hands touch will prosper. Every place you put your feet will be holy ground. And that your wife will know, increase the rest of your lives. And your children and more grandchildren, amen? Amen. Because that is one of the blessings of life. So talking with Mike Kaye, thanks for being with me today on Brave Men Podcast. It's been a blessing. And to hear your story and that, and, you know, this, it's so good to hear the background, because so often we just see, you know, the website and the stuff and the things and the crowds. And we don't hear about what it took to get there. So thanks for taking the time, Mike. And Lord bless you, Paul. Love you, bro. Bless you and Judith. Love you too. Thank you. You've just experienced Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian Men's Network. Connect with Paul at C-A-M-N-D-M-N. Or write to him at Paul at C-A-M-N-D-M-N.