BraveMen S4E155: Dale Bronner & Son-Legacy. A True Story

Today on Brave Men, we're going to talk legacy and there's nobody better positioned to talk legacy than Dr. Dale Carnegie Bronner and his son Dale too because this man lives legacy passes on legacy. You know what you do in life becomes history but what you put into motion becomes your legacy. So today on Brave Men sponsored by the Krishmin's Network and our partners in the Brotherhood of Commission Men around the world. Now I want to thank you for being with us. This is going to be awesome. My name is Paul Lewis Cole and I direct the Krishmin's Network worldwide and this program is going to be awesome. We got them together. He and his son Dr. Bronner and his son. He's the chairman of our ministry board and we got them together at a conference and had them speak about what does it mean to have legacy. Well Dr. Dale Bronner is a bishop. He's a church planter. He's an author conference speaker, leadership trainer. He's a pastor, one of the largest churches in America. Word of faith family worship cathedral in Atlanta, Georgia and he and his wife Nina and he's the father of five and the grandfather of maybe 20 or 30 by now. I'm not sure I think they have just had their 11th but the amazing story that he lives is goes back to 1947 when his father, Dr. Nathaniel Bronner senior and his brother, Arthur Bronner, began Bronner Brothers which is now headed by second generation and they're one of the largest hair care products beauty product companies in North America. They've got all kinds of brands that you might know for naturals, tropical roots, African royal, upscale magazine. They've got one of their their conferences just absolutely fills the World Congress Center there in Atlanta, Georgia. They've had as many as a hundred thousand hair stylists come to their conference. I remember Chris Rock to the television HBO special on the thing and so this is legacy. This is legacy that actually lives and breathes and is being passed on and being done well. So today I want to really dig into this thing, listen to it, maybe take some notes and in appreciate what it means to actually take the time, put the effort in to teach and train the next generation in order to pass on your legacy. This thing is gold and so today I am brave man, you'll hear Bishop Dale Bronner and his son. Bishop Bronner is not only the pastor of World Faith Family Worship Cathedral in Atlanta, Georgia, he and his wife Nina but he is the chairman of our ministry board for Christian men's network. Remember for all the tools that you need and resources for discipling men within the matrix of your local church group or organization go to cmn.men, cmn.men and this is going to be awesome. Thanks for being with me today. I'd brave men. It's brave man with Paul Lewis Cole. Wisdom encourage for the journey. Well this this becomes a demonstration of what we're talking about. I wrote a book some years ago in entitled Past the Baton, The Miracle of Mentoring and step one is you know I do you watch we talk. Step two we do together and then we talk. Step three you do I watch we talk we tweak. Step four you find another you teach them to do and then you talk so that it goes into perpetuity. That's that's the power of it. This this is about legacy. Let me see if I can give you a picture as as we sort of launch into this. I am the result of this I'm doing today what my father did at 75 years old he had all six of his sons to kneel before him and he laid his hands on us my dad was a businessman not a preacher he was a businessman but he was an intentional father the kind of intentional father that John Tyson talked about. He was that kind of intentional father that was one of 12 children himself because he had an intentional dad and at 75 years old he had all six of his sons to kneel before him. He took out a vile of all anointed us with all and prayed an Abrahamic style prophetic prayer over our lives though he served in the business world all of his life yet he was a faithful deacon in the church and he spoke I'm doing today what my daddy spoke prophetically over my life at 75 years old now let me just say the two of us are here right now and I want you to imagine with me for just a moment when you really understand legacy imagine with me two big long grand pianos on the platform and if I play a chord on one piano without the other piano doing anything the same chords will vibrate on the other piano that's in the room that is the power of a calibration of what happens from one generation to a next it's not a fight it's not a struggle it is a natural thing that when we are open that we sense it because of our proximity in the same room we begin to resonate and vibrate with something not fight not struggle legacy is something that we set in motion it's it's a power it it really is and I wrote a book about succession planning the only reason that you have a need for a successor there's some bad reasons the first one is abandonment with a person just abandoned you know when that is abandoned the home when a leader of an organization abandons they burn out they just they abandon it they just walk off and leave it so you have a need for succession when there has been an abandonment issue an abandonment then you have need for define a new leader when there has been scandal scandal disqualifies people and can displace them completely out of the out of their place through scandal another one is when sickness happens it can have a massive heart attack an aneurysm a stroke and it completely causes them to be incapacitated and now you need a new leader so you have you have to have a succession and then you could have sudden death that just takes them away nobody was planning on it everybody thought that they had more time and the sudden death can do it and then the fifth type of situation where you have a need for that is intentional succession it's intentional succession you know that it's going to happen at some point the man who was the mentor to Dr. Martin Luther King was a president of the Atlanta Board of Education and also the president of Morehouse College he was my dad's friend and he stopped my dad one day and he said Bronner what are you doing to ensure that when you died that your business does not die with you and this was 30 years before my father's death and it started my dad at that moment 30 years prior to his death that he started his succession plan we knew immediately who would be president of the organization there was no question about it we knew what everybody's role would be it was almost like when the queen died everybody knew they already knew the things that would go to the media and and so there we were and so here here we are and we are we're in a transition process as it goes we're in a transition process and so I've been playing the chords and they're already vibrating in his heart and it will just play our instrument and get them in the same room but there's got to be it's the power of proximity they as a power in proximity when people get offended with each other they don't want to be near you they don't want to see you but you've got to be able to get them in the room and the reason that some people don't have each other's heartbeat is because they have not been in the room and communication is not always deliberate the way that we think that it is sometimes people live under the illusion that communication has happened when it has not and just because you've said something does not mean something has been heard at least not what you think that you said so you have to have a dialogue dialogue is the word which literally means flow of meaning you don't know what people have understood about anything that you've said until you have a dialogue so whatever you teach whatever you share whatever you think that you've given you have to have a dialogue about it and it has to be very clear it has to be well-defined and then clarified corrected if you're going to have that to happen in an incredible way and so this is why our conversation today so I just want to ask my son what does what does legacy mean to you what does it mean to you yeah well good afternoon I'm just grateful to be here this has been such a rich experience and there's so much treasure in the room and this is my first CM in so I appreciate that just the opportunity to be a month but legacy to me is all about continuity it's about continuity it's about taking something from the past and carrying it forward in the present and into the future it's what it's not is imitation so you're not required just because you're you're a part of a legacy doesn't mean that you have to imitate and do things the exact same way continuity doesn't require imitation and matter of fact innovation is necessary for something to stay alive so it's more about getting connected to the purpose of what was being transmitted so you can take carry it forward honestly and fervently because there's an emptiness in imitation if you're not kind of connected to the source so yeah that's what legacy kind of means to me that's good in that whole process of being able to sort of move that forward I think that there has to be a clarity and understanding of what I would call constants and variables constants and variables and here's why because if you change what you should continue you will make unstable and if you continue something that you should change you will make it relevant so you have to know what to change I'm gonna say that to you again if you if you change if you change what you should continue you will destabilize you will make unstable if you change something from the legacy that you should continue you will destabilize it you'll make it unstable but if you are able to if you continue something that should be changed you'll make it irrelevant and that's why every successor has to figure out what needs to be changed when you look at Moses and Joshua their leadership styles were totally different Moses was a master negotiator he was a diplomat but Joshua was a warrior because one had an anointing to to bring people out of a slavery situation and another had an anointing to bring people in but they had to fight and dispossess you can't negotiate somebody out of their home you're gonna have to fight and take it so he had a different assignment it was a different day and had Joshua tried to operate as his mentor then he would have failed he had to know what to change constants and variables how do you make this relevant to each generation as as it goes the thesis in the book on on succession planning that I wrote was this is that succession planning is not the feeling of a vacancy it is the continuity of an organization how do you keep the continuity of the identity of your family I mean the mark of your family the heritage of your family the crest of your family who your family happens to be the name the reputation the character of your family how do you maintain the the continuity of that that we are men of character that we are men of honor that we are men of faith that we are men of our word how do you actually maintain the continuity of that to know what about this do we change and what do we make flexible and sometimes in in doing that there's a difference between what we would call a meaning and and form and here's how I've noticed it for example in in our church you know my generation when a man was in indoors he didn't wear hat inside you see that was that we that was that was very meaningful does we we saw a hat on the indoors as a sign of disrespect but you see my son's generation is a part of that outfit they don't think of them you know this is they they were never taught that when if a woman came in a man pulled his hat off and see this was the this was the culture into which I was raised but not his culture and so he doesn't think anything about he walks in they've got a hat on we've had guys you know they've had hats they don't think about it then I get emails from older people from my generation telling me how offensive it is and that these people ought to take the hats off they don't mean to be disrespectful they just don't understand a custom that my generation did it that's not a value of his it it has no meaning to them so hat this is about my outfit my hair is not fixed whatever the case won't why ever they were wearing it so it's just different so I don't know if you want to speak to even some of yeah yeah so I mean even things like that matter of fact I had to do an experiment because I'm I'm I service this executive pastor I'm also a worship leader at the church and it was sort of we tried to get our ushers to to stop policing the hat policy thing it's just like that's not that important so but they they just were really holding on to it so then what did the executive pastors less worship leader do I decided I was gonna show up that Sunday with a backwards I had and everything and I was like good morning where to faith you're ready to worship and I have my hat on and I could see it in my ushers it's somebody approached me and we were able to have a conversation about that but that was the liberation for that moment and the important thing about it is not about hats and no hats the the thing that needs to be passed down is that's meaningful is we need to know about respect we need to understand honor hats are no hats are just a form that's trying to pass down the meeting so it's like don't worry about the form so much is the meaning we need to understand respect it's not about hats it's about respect so why don't we talk about respect instead of hats you know yeah that's you know see that's that's incredible incredibly rich for us because that is the issue that we want to communicate that's the real thing that we want to pass down is respect the forms will change with every generation the forms change but respect is a constant in every relationship in every home and every business and every marriage respect I mean you you can't build on anything if you don't have respect when you lose respect you lose effect if your wife no longer respects you you got an issue you need to have some I met some the vigorous exchanges of dissenting ideas until you have thrashed it out so but that that that has to that has to be worked out if you have a respect issue with a son or a daughter and their father or their mother there has to be a respect respect and honor they sort of go hand in hand and so if you lose respect risk the loss of respect can can disconnect you and disqualify you just just a respect issue but it has to be rebuilt as it as an intentionality so when you have the transition of certain things that go from the predecessor and then the successor I mean what are some of the tensions that you discover alone in that journey in that process yeah I think ultimately it's gonna it's gonna fall at that constants and variables it's like how do you manage transition is somewhat like a crisis because it's like okay what do we hold on to and what do we let go of so that's that's the fine line of what you're negotiating and and you're you're kind of it's a it's a a tug a given take of of constant communication of is it's kind of like you're asking a question you know if there's something I want to do it's it's like okay is it not right now is it a pace issue because sometimes there's an issue of pace it's like we can do that but just not right now so that's one of those tension points is even timing so there's gonna there's gonna be some there's gonna be some timing challenges it's like okay we can do this but let's just do it at a pace that doesn't like leave people behind or shock them and it's like okay and then and then sometimes it's you might identify something as a variable this really a and say that's a variable in constant so in that style in personality like style personality methodology some of that stuff is is really variable it's not a part of the essence right but but younger people I can we have a tendency to say something is a variable that might be a constant and older people have the tendency to identify something that's a constant and it's really a variable like it's like is that is it really important that we sing this song every time before we start or or or can we just do something else and I know millennials have really and we talked about this we're kind of at a search for meaning because we we noticed a lot of rituals and then when we asked why they were like crickets so it's really we we just want to know what is this all about but it's a quest for meaning and we weren't getting answers to that and so we're trying it I it's really a I don't think that they're fully we're not disrespectful we just we're frustrated because we want to know why we want to know what's constant what is the essence of the thing you're trying to give to me why do we do this and yeah so I think that's one of the biggest tension points again it's not about hats but we do need something about respect like so but don't talk to me about hats because in behavioral modification before we talk about something like what's what's the deeper thing we're talking about because it's like I know God is not really obsessed with my hat so it's like is that what it's really about but God has something to say about respect and honor you know and that's that that's that's a great point you know it's it's it's a little different from my generation because what happens is that we try to do with our the next generation the same thing that was done with us and so if my parents told me something we didn't question it so questioning your your parent had somebody questioned my daddy the whole the room would have I mean if my father wanted my opinion he gave it to me and now we have a millennial generation and they have an opinion about everything you know so and and I've had to get comfortable you know with that but what what allows me to be comfortable in that is that I have a resolute understanding of my identity no matter the attitudes of others I've lived long enough you know I don't have been paid any attention I'm okay I'm copacetic about it because I've lived you know as soon as they they quiet down they're just I'm hearing frustration in their voice so I understand that what I understand too as as as a father is that there's there's something that I carry that he needs and we carry something more a lot of people think of inheritance a good man leads an inheritance to his children children that's not just about money that's about moral value and character it's it's about the spiritual inheritance of of the faith that that we lay into their life I meant you remember the apostle Paul talking about Timothy he says Timothy he wasn't the one that got Timothy saved Timothy was already saved when he when he met him he said I know the faith that was in your mother lowest and in your grandmother units he was at least a third generation Christian and now that the apostle Paul is finding something but he'd never been father and it was not until Timothy met Paul until he met a father his gifts were not released when Timothy met Paul something was stirred in Timothy that was released and activated that his mother units and grandmother lowest had no power to activate because he needed a man he needed a man Timothy needed Paul to activate his gifts and he said it was through the laying on my hands he said now Timothy stir up the gift of God there's only inside of you and you need a father's voice to ignite in the same way that that seed that raised among those 400 million to get the eight and the light that comes on that same father that's that that's it that seed that gave life also since something that activates something that a mama's voice it just it just doesn't have the same power to be able to activate now here here with without fathers or predecessors realizing something that they have to be able to give to the successor who's coming after them and see just like with the baton you've got to be willing to run behind something with nothing in your hand with nothing in your hand but you run behind because you know what they what they carry for your heart I wouldn't follow anybody that doesn't love me it's difficult to serve on the elite if you don't feel that they love you because that decisions will not be in your best interest you need to know that I'm loved by this person it's one of the first thing that needs to be established but one of the things that I identify for fathers who feel like they don't have the resources to be able to give to their children their grandchildren or so and so yeah so in my dad would risk yeah I'd be such a listen you carry something far beyond money one of the things time time is a currency you buy things with time that's why we mortgage things over time time is a currency there's certain thing that you can buy with time you just teach people the power of patience and time that's that's something that you can pass to them that's why a father said no no no not yet not yet because when people are being trained and when they're being mentored they always feel that they're ready before they're ready they always feel ready the athlete always feels we put me in a game coach and it's gonna always be a delay because the person who the the successors always so anxious to get the hand on the baton but the one who carries it not yet not yet they know timing time as a resource knowledge as a resource the knowledge not only that you know but what you carry to them the things that my son does not have an experience I give him through exposure let me say that again what the younger generation what a successor does not have in experience you can grant to them through exposure my dad's greatest gift into my life was the gift of exposure so you you buy things with the currency of time you buy things with the currency of knowledge the other currency is money but listen if you don't have money use time and knowledge in order to produce the money you whatever whichever one you have now if I've got money and if I need time I use money and knowledge in order to save my time or to give me more time so that instead of you're cutting your grass because you're making big bucks over here if you got money but you don't have time really rich people time is their greatest commodity and so we're teaching them the value of something you will generally carry two of the three-year-old times and whichever one you lack you use the other one in order to get it does that make sense to you you you carry so if I need money if I need money I'm gonna figure out how to take my knowledge and use time if they can compound over time but I got to have some knowledge I can produce money if I need knowledge and I've got money and I've got time I can go to school I can watch it on you too I can read it in a book but just going to take you time you've got money by the book you can get the resources you can roll in the course you're gonna have to take time time as a currency money as a currency if I need knowledge you take money and you take money and you combine it with time and you get knowledge whichever one that you're lacking use the other two to get the third teach that to your the folks is following you that some things take time some things take time what are some of the greater concerns of what you would call a successor what's what's what's what's on your mind you know what what worries you or stresses you or makes you even question am I ready can I do this yeah I think as a successor greatest need is is clarity on that which I'm grabbing into what must make it there and it's like one essential what what must make it over there what what what is the identity of it what is the what is the real what is the treasure that needs to make it to the next decade to the next you know that needs to make it into the future that needs to make it travel to different places geographically that needs to touch more lives to where other people can participate in it that can glean from it it's like where does this river what what what is the essence that I need to take so it's like I need clarity is probably the greatest need of a successor is is clarity on the mission clarity on the essence and I know that some of that it is taught like it can be talked about in communication it can be we can talk about the mission we can spell it out we can write it on a board right we can we can create a seal on it but a lot of it so much happens that is unspoken it's like the the fastest way to learn something really is you know spin spin in time with you going with you here and there watching you is is more I can absorb more about your ways and about what's going on here in really that which is unspoken rather than the spoken sometimes I feel like we can put too much emphasis on the written word and on we put too much emphasis on words it's like presence is really more powerful than words and it really can seal words and so I would say presence and the idea of being in the room being around because more is caught than taught yeah that's that is a principle that more is actually caught than taught but again you have to have the gift of proximity if you're too far you can catch the ball you can't be two football fields away and say hey coach I'm on to the quarterback I'm open but you're too far away proximity you have to be within proximity in order to catch that's the that is the one of the most powerful things what frustrates people is a lack of clarity because they don't understand if you don't have clarity as a while your wife is acting the way she is you get frustrated you know why because I told her and she knows that I don't like it when she and yet she does it and now I'm frustrated because I don't have clarity I thought that I was clear when I told her or if it's with if it's with the son or daughter and if you told them and if they're not following it's like I know that I told them and now I'm frustrated because I'm not seeing this come out so you have three things that I have a design identity in terms of clarity comes from design if you understand the design the design so many people live the perversion of how they were raised in the inept ways of how they were raised instead of discovering how they were made our real power comes from a revelation not of how you were raised but how you were made because sometimes we were raised by people who had no concept of the God identity of the Imago day on the inside of you and so it is it's it's when you you understand how I was made as opposed to read that's design design when you understand the design of a particular motor a car you understand design a lot of your questions are answered designed number two is definition definition and you see the power to define is the power to determine destiny whoever you give license to to be able to define you confuses us and see we as men if we don't get it from our dad we gonna create some kind of definition we gonna get it from somewhere materialism says respect me for the possessions that I own and that's why some guys is it's the big car is the big house because that defines them and their their measure of their own success materialism for others it is mastery respect to me for the skills that I have developed and mastered in my life mastery and they get there so I'm this because I'm a master chef I'm a master brick Mason I'm a master you know computer engineer it's it's the skill that they have in their life that gives them the definition as to who they are mastery for others they get it through their morality respect me because of the virtues that I embody is because I'm a good at two shoes and this and that was a problem of the Pharisees I fast twice in the week I pay my tides I do you know these wonderful virtues but something was still lacking on the inside of them and it is not until we understand the real definition that we are the sons of God made in his image after his likeness that we are made with a character of God that's where real self respect comes from it comes from that place and that's the great thing is this this things I will say this as a as a predecessor the most difficult thing for me to be able to convey are things that I do naturally or intuitively instinctively it is my natural endowment and gift it's the hardest thing to teach because you don't have to think about it and whenever I have to teach something that I do by my natural gifting or by the way that I'm naturally wired if I'm teaching it to a person and that's not that natural wiring I'm like I mean can't you just can't you just do this I mean people who are athletically coordinated they just know how to do things I had an NFL plan came down I was he just do and I'm like everybody else that I brought up in this place I said it's like a maze this dude navigated this so he had been in our building many times it was intuitive and I could tell that but what do you do when you're trying to teach something to someone that you know intuitively you have a natural gifting in able to to be able to do that and yet how do you teach that that you never struggle with but if I had to learn to walk and if I had to learn how to ride a bicycle intentionally I can teach that more readily to others but it is a struggle for us to be able to teach those things and so I don't know from a successors standpoint you know whether that it's is something on the flip side what what does it look like from that view yeah I mean I think that so and another thing that has to be discern is there are things that he can do that I just shouldn't even try to do like there are things that he does that was made for his time that is not for me to embody and I wasn't made for that again Moses and Joshua different set of skills different missions but they are also he's still Joshua's participating in the legacy of Moses even though they have very different ways of being and they have to become different types of animal in many ways we have similarities but we're very different animals and that's because our missions the the battlefield is going to be different out there so it's like I'm made for my generation I'm made for my mission so I have to understand why I'm here and the way that I participate in the legacy is going to look different than the way he did it right so I it's like my skills are what's required for my generation and what's required for my mission I know that God has already equipped me me with that and now get lost trying to do what he does it's like I'm I can't wear Saul's armor I have to use what I've been given and be very clear about my own identity and not get lost in the imitation game when I'm really called to the innovation gang I think he's got the DNA is just legacy is where success meets destiny and they don't compete legacy it is where success meets destiny and they don't compete legacy is something to be preserved destiny is something to be extended there's always something to preserve there's something to achieve and there's something to avoid always something to preserve something to achieve something to avoid every predecessor and every successor needs to ask those question what should I preserve from my predecessor what should I achieve that still yet has to be accomplished and what pitfalls dangers snares should I avoid what test trials temptations that I should avoid but I think all of our time is sort of slipped away time just it just flies when you're having fun you just experienced brave man with Paul Lewis Cole Paul is president of the Christian men's network connect with Paul at seaman dot men or write to him at Paul at seaman dot men