BraveMen S4E151: Otto Kelly-Following Jesus with Passion

About 10 minutes in the Jeff Greenway's message roadmap through a hostile culture at Lyons Roar 2022 in November in Dallas, he said this, the heroes and the warriors of the kingdom will walk with a limp because they've counted the cost, wrestled with God, and he's marked them for life. What Jeff laid out in about just about 25, 30 minutes was something I'd been thinking about for seven or eight years. In fact, I'd articulated it to a number of friends. I won't give it away. You'll hear it when he says it, but it's something I'd been thinking about working towards in Jeff Greenway. This remarkable thinker and leader put it in a package so well that I want you to hear it. I want you to tell somebody about it, send it to someone. I'm sending it to friends, I know. That's why we put it on this podcast. Lyons Roar takes place the first weekend of November every year for the Christian men's network, cmnsummit.com. There's the website for that, cmn.men is our website, all the tools you need in your local church or group to disciple men, to be a servant leader and see changes happen when you reach a heart of a man. You save the future of a child. I believe that with all of my heart, which is why we're doing everything we do all over the world and over 100 nations, cmn.men. Today, I'm brave men. You'll meet my friend, Jeff Greenway. I put this in the description. I said, he's a fly fisherman who's also a pastor, but I thought that was funny because he is an avid fly fisherman, an outdoorsman, a great man. I met him a number of years ago when he picked up Maximized Manhood and realized that he needed to navigate his men through a process of discipleship at Reynoldsburg, one of the most significant Methodist churches in North America and now because of the new global Methodist church, one of the most significant churches around the world. And Jeff, grab Maximized Manhood, started taking his key men through it and through the discipleship process that we have. And then called me and said, would you come speak? And I did. And we became friends quickly. And he spoke at lines where this is that message that has rocked my world. I wanted you to hear it. It is navigating through the cultural chaos in which we live with a clarity from the word of God. You know, I heard somebody the other day said, you know, we're all waiting for a word, but we have it. It's the word of God. It's the Bible. And he uses that, uses cultural trends and everything else overlays that, but uses the the fulcrum and the context of the word of God to bring us to where we are today and what the future of the church is. What is it? You'll hear it today on Brave Men. It's Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole. Wisdom and courage for the journey. Hey, thanks for being with us today on Brave Men. Brave Men is an outreach of the Christian men's network. You can find the tools for the cycling men at cmd.man. Talking to my brother, Otto Kelly today and Otto, man, you had a huge year of transition over the last year as we talk right now, moving from Reno, Nevada to basically Houston area. That's a big transition. Culture and everything else. For years, you headed up the crisis pregnancy center in Reno, Nevada. And also headed up youth intervention ministries. I mean, you've been on the streets for years helping people. And you have an amazing, amazing ministry, amazing background. And then you're also a Hall of Fame. You know, I ever shared this stuff, but you're a Hall of Fame, Nevada Wolfpack, right? And didn't you hold a record for the number of yards gained in in one quarter for the NCAA for? Yeah, yeah, it was like 225, yeah. So you remember? Of course, we remember 225 yards in one quarter. Yeah. Dude, that's insane, man. Yeah, man. I think for the Cowboys, that's our running game for two games. I don't know. I don't know, man. Boys are looking kind of good, though. Yeah. Well, you know, you get your setbacks and God bless the Jacksonville Jaguars. As we talk right now, last week, Jacksonville, step boat up on the Cowboys and beat them. But God bless those guys. You know, some strong followers of Christ on that team. You know, the offensive coordinator. So, you know, it's a bunch of good guys. So, you know, I just I'm happy for all of them doing what they do. And I'm thrilled that you're in Texas now, man. Yeah. I felt the cloud move like there was like this. All of a sudden, something happened. There you go. You came bigger and larger. So auto. We love it, new friend. Yeah. So I'm glad you're here. But you've had some major transitions in your life. Yeah. And where did you first become a follower of Christ? Where did that happen? And you know, it was, you know, I was I didn't realize it at the time. I was a I was 13 years old. I my father, about a year, died of cancer and watched my super hero shrink down to basically a hundred pounds and less than a year. And how how the cancer just ravages body and and my I always had believing mother, you know. And we would watch things happen when she prayed. And so obviously everybody was pranked my dad, you know, but I he didn't he didn't make it. And so in seeding anger, I was mad. They died. And I said, God, you're supposed to be all powerful and all this stuff, man. But and you could have healed my dad, but you didn't. And so I don't have a dad because you didn't heal him. Because you didn't heal him. I don't have a dad. So that means you're my dad. You just be a dad, you know. And I didn't unbeknownst to me. I was asking him into my life. Wow. I really didn't get lit up until I was a senior in high school. But but I knew I accepted the Lord because that day something happened inside of me was something in the nucleus of who I am. They helped me recognize that he was on the job, that he is my father, that right after I asked if I felt something, I couldn't explain what it was. But but but but ever since then, that's been our relationship. And so now now he's your father. You're a believer in Christ. God's your father. But when did you become a follower of Christ? When did you when and what does that mean? I mean, how did that shift and what does that mean out of? Yeah. You know, instead of being a spectator, yeah, being a nice convert, I begin to feel what he felt about people, about circumstances and about injustice. And as a result of that, I said, whatever you wanted me to do, I mean, I just want to do what you want me to do. And that asked when the transition took place because I begin to see things how he saw them. Well, he allowed me to privilege of seeing the things that were he saw them. I had compassion for people. I was there for the broken and how he wanted to be there for the disregarded and the wounded. And so I kind of took ownership of that. Yeah. But I don't know how to do it. And so the joy and the and the excitement of submitting a fresh to him on a daily basis to do that became really exciting to me. So for me, I guess I guess I would say probably my sophomore year in college was when I said, okay, I'm following him. Yeah. And then you found a community of believers and brothers. Yeah. Yeah. And lived in a discipleship house. My second semester, second semester sophomore, discipleship house with about six, no, about five of the football players. And they would obviously hold each other accountable. Those are crazy years. We're talking, you know, we're talking mid 80s, crazy years. We'd hold each other and read in the battle. We'd hold each other accountable. And, you know, so we we learned that there's like no temptation around. None whatsoever, man. You know, it's like, you know, none whatsoever, man. I mean, legal prostitution, all this and nothing. No, no, no, no, no temptation at all, man. 24 hours sitting gambling all the time. No, man. Yeah. But you found out in a community of brothers. That's it. Yeah. And recognizing the importance of brotherhood, man, that really got me, you know, how, you know, brother can speak into your life and pull things out of you. And then again, playing ball that really showed you the importance of you can't do things by yourself. You draw what? But when you have others beside you. And that's why I learned that phrase, Paul, that, you know, men, brothers, we grow side by side, you know, and it's an adversity that we grow, man. Yeah, it's an adversity. You think of the life of David. David had intimacy with God, but then he had adversity in his life and that adversity created a greater intimacy, right? Sir. Yes, sir. No, adversity doesn't come to, well, the enemy will send adversity to try to break you. But in Christ, it can make us stronger. Yes, sir. I think we have to do that in brotherhood, don't you? I mean, personal decision, but then you've got, there has to be somebody you're in relationship with. Yeah. Yeah. You know, what do you can talk to? Yeah. I mean, you know, when you have guys that have similar backgrounds and they're going toward the same thing, you wear that silver and blue. And as a result of that, there's something a cause is bigger than you. Recognizing that if you don't encourage that person, if you don't receive encouragement, and if you're not willing to be open and talk about things that really mess with you, then you're going to, you're going to be stunted. And so we've learned, I learned early, the importance of being vulnerable, not only be wrong, share my stuff with everybody, but, you know, a few brothers, man, the idea of being able to, to walk in that relationship together and knowing that you have freedom to be open and vulnerable. And again, it's a, we're living in a culture that tells you not to say anything to anybody. You keep it in, you man up, and it'll just, yeah, it'll, it'll, it'll, it'll, it'll, it'll each up, man. Yeah, it's that, you know, that, now that you're, you're down here in Texas and of course, your, your family, your wife's got roots here and now you've got some grandkids here with your son and but there's this picture of sort of the guy on the horseback, you know, facing the, you know, facing the sunset and he rides off and he's just one man like the lone champion, you know, facing, and like, dude, you know, one man, army's a dead army. Yeah, man, yeah, man, yeah. That whole one guy riding off doing his thing, holding it inside. That's like, don't work. Don't work, man. You gotta be in community. Yeah. So you found that in your life, but you still had challenges. Let's just talk about that. What's the toughest loss you ever had in a football game? You know, I think the, the toughest one, I believe it was a couple of them that really got us, but I think we're doing, believe us Fresno, Fresno State. And, Fresno State just ripped up in their bowl game. Yeah, all you toward up, man. Yeah. Yeah, and we lost, you know, it was a major game and we had lost, I think, about three points. And I think they were naturally ranked at the time. Well, I was three, about three points, but it was a battle. It was a battle. And what got me is one of our, one of our guys, you know, a crucial downfumbled. And, you know, just to look in his face, you know, say, oh my gosh, you know, I blew it. And being able to, you know, just gather around him because all of us felt the same way. If that would have been us, yeah, would have done it, then we would need someone like that to really step into us and tell us who we were, who we are as opposed to what we're feeling about ourselves. And to me, that's what true brotherhood is, you know, that you'll, you'll tell the brother who you really are as opposed to what you're feeling and how you're feeling about yourself. Despite your feelings, despite your emotions, no, no, no, this is who you really are. And as I watched, and I participated and gathered around this brother, it was a tough loss, but the idea of recognizing that, hey, you have, you have men that are around you that's going to stand with you despite whatever the circumstances may look like. Talking with Otto Kelly, Otto Kelly is now the head of dad in the academy. And four years ahead of the crisis pregnancy center in Nevada and grade ministry. And brave men is now reached with the Christmas network. You're very involved with CMN. You and I have traveled together been in different settings. One of my favorite things actually was, was you would stand up there and there you are. Actually, you're probably, you're probably a little larger now than when you were running the football, right? Because you got into weightlifting and you got into bodybuilding and all this stuff. Right. So you're, you're always joke about how I need to buy some t-shirts like yours to make my muscles look. But actually, you buy normal size and it just, and so, only you, Paul Cole, only you, my brother, you would, you know, stand up there and you'll say, hey, close your eyes. Everybody close your eyes. We'll be in a meeting. I remember this, where were we? We were in my desk. Are they? Yeah. You go, hey, close your eyes. Now, think of the head of a crisis pregnancy center. Now open your eyes. Look at me. So, so you moved into this. I mean, God's taking you into some, I mean, these, some crazy different places and now I moved to Texas. As we move into the next part of our lives, whenever I'm listening to this, a friend of ours who's listening to this right now, and he's got some decision making to do. How do you move into that next place? How do you actually, how do you make a decision to become the head of a crisis process center? And now you've transitioned out of that. How do you make those life-changing decisions and do them as a follower of Jesus Christ? That's a great question. I don't know. I think it's a couple of things. Paul, I really do. I think for me, it was having an attitude of gratefulness from the very beginning. I mean, having an attitude of gratefulness, and what I mean by that, is that when you're grateful for, you know, number one, being alive, number two, having having some sort of calling on your life, that, that, that is an essential, I believe, part of being willing to go to the next step. For example, if, if guys have, if their dreams are stronger than, if their memories are stronger than their dreams, then you're always going to be looking back. Wow. But if you have dreams, then it's going to catapult you into something fresh and something new and something exciting. And then when you have an opportunity to depend on and trust in God and trust in His faithfulness, then you're excited because you know that He'll never fail you. So he's always placing some dreams in me. For example, the dream of, I didn't really ask for it, but the dream of being in a crisis pregnancy center and being able to be submissive to the Lordship of Christ. And then the Father, Fathering, literally thousands of young men and young ladies coming through our doors over a period of 10 years. That in itself was, you talk about feeling like you're a superhero because you're going into an atmosphere that is, is chaotic, insane, scary, in some instances, diabolical. But you're able to then be utilized by God to go in an atmosphere like that and be a superhero to the point where you're rescuing and you're liberating and you're encouraging and you're setting people on the right track. So you know, it's in us as men to want to be, you know, do something that is heroic. And I think the dreams can be set or dreams can be thought about when we utilize, what's the word, gratefulness as an anchor. And they kind of just catapult you to something, something else. That's so good. You know, that you're, you're basically positioning your dreams. The grabbing hold of the dreams has to be stronger than your memories. And I look at it as courage is the result of embracing your destiny. In other words, courage comes because you look forward, not because you look back. You don't have to be built on that. But dude, how many of us know somebody that every time we get with them, like particularly if you've got a friend from college or high school and you get with them in 20 years after high school, he's still talking about, you know, like I grew up on the West Coast. So it's some guy to talk about, man, those great waves, we got that one day up the coast. Right. And he's still talking about that. Or like if it was sports to be like, Hey, remember when we played, you know, so and so the third game and I had those two picks and 20 years later, they're still living on those memories. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And what that does in is, it says to me, you haven't fully turned and embraced this dream of your future. And that's where a lot of us, it's that I think I'm kind of remember who said this. It seems to me. I came over who said it, but it was said by somebody says, says, most men don't die. Most men are buried when they're 75, but they died when they were 50. In other words, they stopped dreaming. Yeah. They stopped looking for the future. And when we look at the book of Acts, it says in the last days, I'll pour out my spirit on all flesh, all meal dream dreams. Right. All mental dream dreams. Yeah. And I think you nailed something right there, Otto, that we have to have this full embrace of what that next thing is. Now, how do I walk into that? How do I make the decision to do that? Right. Based on where I'm at, how do I make that shift? How do I, how do I transition that? What's the, speak to me from an athlete's, athletes, this point, you know, discipline. And how do I move forward into that? Well, I think it's a couple things, Paul. I really do. I think it's, if you really feel that God is placing something in your heart to do, then there has to be a willingness on your parts to prepare for that. Wow. It has to be a willingness to go. Okay. If, for example, someone is received a prophetic word, they say, well, you're going to be doing this. Well, the sooner you start making preparations for that prophecy, the sooner the prophecy will be fulfilled. So it's like you have to, it's just not, it's just going to happen. No, you have to place names in your life as, as, I guess, goals, like, for example, coming here, you know, we recognized that, you know, God was doing some things in regard to daddy academy. And it was just not in it, in just one geographical location. It was kind of bigger than that. And so what do we do? We started doing things online. We started doing things, you know, with our, with our, with our, you've got a podcast. Yeah. And so that began to tap us into different spheres of, of men and people. So I think to answer your question, I think it has to, you have to be willing, number one, to, to, to put a plan together to, to not just okay wish. But if I wanted to, if I wanted to, you know, if I, if I want to be or go after Mr. Texas, you just can't go into the weight room and decide, I'm going to, I'm going to be Mr. Texas and look at the weights and wish that the, you know, that you could, no, you got to, you got to go over, you got to use them, and you got to get some resistance in your life. Yeah. Wow. For me, that's what I've seen. All strength comes out of resistance. Man, everything, you know, you don't, you don't tune a piano, man, but just, you know, you have to bring tension on those strings, man. Man, how many times have we walked into a gymnasium and seen the guy that would like to be Mr. Texas, but all you ever do is work out as biceps, because that's what he thought looked cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's got these little calves and little legs. Yes, sir. You know, we were trying to chest and biceps. She looks like you can tip him over. You look at stark. I give it. You know, right? I mean, that's what we do. Yeah. I think that's so good. If you, if you have a dream, write the dream down, and then start planning, how do I get there? Yeah. You know, what you were talking about, Mr. Texas was, was, was, was based on working out in, bodybuilding, that kind of stuff. So you got to plan it. It takes this many leg lifts. Okay, Tuesdays is the Tuesday morning is this, Tuesday afternoon is this, different body parts, the different things, and you begin to plan it out. So now, if you don't know, if you've got a dream, let's say your dream is you want to own a discount tire franchise. I don't know if they're franchised. Well, let's just say, let's just say that, that you're, you're working on cars, and you help your friends, and you want to own your own, uh, mechanics store shop, right? You know, just start doing it. In fact, there's a book called The Emeth that talks about entrepreneurs and about how most entrepreneurs fail because they just think, hey, man, I'm really good at fixing motors. Let's go do that. They're not going to run into business. So if you want to be Mr. Texas, do you go find somebody who's done that? Yes, sir. So now we're talking brotherhood again. Now we're talking community. Find that community. So if you've got a dream of owning your own, mechanics shop, go find somebody who's done it. Right. In fact, the best thing would be say, hey, I'll come work for you, you know, for the next three years. Right. And I'll start my own shop on the other side of town or wherever it is. We won't compete, but I'll come work for you for three years and learn how to run this business. Right. submit myself. Man, that's well, Paul, you know, stuff so fast though. Yeah, but I want you to think about our relationship. Okay. I really want you to think about our relationship. I mean, you know, our relationship really started taking off in 08. You know, um, you called being said, hey, uh, I want you to come with me to Portland. I'm going to do some stuff important. Yeah. And it was like, okay, yeah, but I'm in. Well, you know, as I, you know, traveled with you and as I watched how you guys did stuff and how basically you and you know it, you said, you'll call me and you'll say, hey, I need you over here, brother. So it's like, okay, we'll find a way. Um, but in that, I learned and watched how you guys did things, how see him and did things, how, you know, brotherhood and how you put, you know, things together, what you did on the podcast and how you did those things. And so as a result of that, from brotherhood, it really placed a, um, a spark in my heart, a dream in my heart to do this for guys, to do this for men for fathers for dads, you know, because similar to our hearts, we have, we have a, we really do have, uh, kind of hearts, bro. We really do because working with youth for so long, you know, and watching the devastation of not having fathers in lives, that motivated me to go, okay, let me, let's, let's gotta, what can we do to help? And he helped me develop this whole data academy thing, but it started from relationships with you and watch how things were done. So I didn't just come up with it. It was like watching how things were being done and, and, and grabbing that and pulling this off and asking you questions and, you know, I don't know if you remember, but there was a time when you came to Reno, we did a conference in Reno, and we were sitting at a restaurant and we started to talk about stuff. And you mentioned, hey, you know, I think, you know, you enjoy what would be great, man, as far as I'm married stuff, and I think, you know, and you just don't, um, come up with stuff. You, you, you can, but when you, you're, you're thinking about things and someone has experience in it and you listen, and you watch, and you can, and you can take practical steps to apply those things, then things begin to exponentially grow. That's what I said, the wherever, and, and he'll tell you this, you guys, you know, I, he'd call a call and, uh, because I go back a long way with the, with the colds, man, he'll call and say, bro, I don't know what you're doing, but I need some help. And boom, because, because again, it's brotherhood number one, yeah, but I want to learn. I want to grow. I want to, I want to be an instrument that God can use to, to help men recognize who they are in him. So if you have a dream, and you're listening to this right now, the first step is to be willing to humble yourself to prepare. It's great. Right? Because we want the stuff without the pain of what it takes to get the stuff. Right? Yes. So you've got to be willing to, to write down a plan, begin to work at, go ask somebody, and, and then begin to, uh, work it out. I think that, that, um, I think it was that John Wooden has said failure to prepare his preparation for failure. Uh, Robert Berger said, preparation is proof you expect something to happen. And, and so when we prepare, when we get our hearts right, and so, uh, walking into a new season, making a decision, this is what I'm going after. Uh, how do I work on that spiritually? What are the spiritual disciplines? You're, you're, uh, you're a champion. Uh, you know, I see a, uh, there's a, you've got a trophy behind you. You've, you've won at different types of things. Uh, there was a, there was a big thing when you guys transitioned out of the, uh, the city of Reno, where they honored you and, and proclaimed a certain proclamation for the city of Reno and, but, but man, there was a lot of hard work. What's the things that we need to do? What's a first couple of things? First few things that I need to do to make this transition spiritually to this dream that I'm after auto. I, I think honestly, and I know it's going to sound, you know, very simple, uh, but I think it's take the step. Just get out of the boat. Wow. Honestly, get out of the boat because it's going to be uncomfortable. It's all get out because you're going to, you're going to have questions after questions, but I think it's getting out of the boat. Come in. You know, and for, for me, getting out of the boat is what we talked about earlier. You know, number one, God is this you. Father is, is this you? Because you know, I'm willing to do whatever you tell me to do, but is this you? You know, um, and when, when, when God really spoke to my heart, listen, he goes, I just want my sons. I want sons to know that they're sons. And, and, and for whatever reason, I want to utilize you as an instrument for that. Well, okay, let's take a step. Let's take that step. And then, uh, then, uh, other step was, you know, someone said to me, and, you know, I'm talking to someone who said this to me, you know, I, you had to think about writing a book, you know, man, you don't think I just write the dog on book, you know, because that kind of like, you know, that's, that's kind of just identifies you write a book. So I wrote a book on brotherhood. I wrote a book on, uh, uh, the importance of sonship, you know, um, and he hit the title of the book so everybody can get. Oh, yeah, it's a call, sentence to men. A brother thing. In fact, where we at? Look at that. See, now I'm, I'm unashamedly advertising brother thing. Yeah. And, uh, wrote the book, you know, and uh, where, where can we get this book? Oh, you just go to dad academy dadeacademy.com. Dad e academy. Yes. Dad, last, capital E, uh, academy.com. Okay. Dad, um, he academy.com and sons to men. A brother thing. Yep. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. So for me, it's, it's, you know, to, to answer, of course, it's just taking those steps by the practical steps. Um, number one, again, you know, it's, you know, I know what we, we sound crazy saying this, but I know it sounds funny, Paul, and maybe you, it's a foreign to you, but it's called prayer. Yeah. There you go, man. It's called prayer. You know, honestly, you know, spending time with God. And, you know, and not, not looking for something instant, but, but, but be willing to, to, to get up and spend time with him and, and, and here is heart. And, um, yeah. Yeah. This thing is worked out in the, if you will, uh, the daily walk. Uh, I, I know a lot of guys go, hey, I'm grinding, you know, the daily grind. And I, you know, maybe that's a way of saying that, but it, but it's the fact that you show up, right? And, uh, even in the midst of disappointment, it's kind of like that guy fumbled and you guys lose by three points. Mm-hmm. And that was probably a Saturday game. Go ahead. And on, uh, Monday or Tuesday, you're in watching film, because you're about the next game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You show up. Mm-hmm. And that guy showed up. Everybody showed up. Great. Okay. Let's, so I think that's part of it is, is we have to pick ourselves up. Everybody falls down. Right. It's a small word man that gets back up on the bicycle. Everybody falls off. Yeah. Yeah. No, you know, nobody lives a perfect life. Right. Outside of your wife. You know, of course, no, and I think you're so right when it comes to that. It's, it's recognizing that, yeah, man, we're going to make blunders and yeah, we're going to fall short. Yeah, we're going to, you know, but it's interesting. I think that's one of the reasons why I like football so much. You know, is that you get lit up. You don't get, just get hit. You get cracked sometimes, man. You know, and, and you can't just sit there and wallow. You got to get your butt out. You got to go, you know, and, you know, so it's like, okay, get your stuff together. I'll never forget, man, we're, we're, we're, I'll never forget. I got to share the, we're playing Boilly State. And I'll never forget this, man. So we run a, we run the trap. And so the guard didn't pull. You're supposed to pull and go knock out the dog on a linebacker. He didn't pull. And you ran straight and I think my step and I go into it. And it's like a, a linebacker. I mean, I forgive the brother's name, but he played a couple years in pro. And we collide it. You know, and, and so, you know, as I run it back, you learn, okay, you keep your legs moving. And if you get, if you give them half your body, just spin and you'll get out of it because everybody's, everybody's kind of like paralyzed for a second. Yeah, I did that. So I get, and I'm seeing O'Neibas, you know, all over my face. So I get, I get up my, my fellow running back. He comes up to me and he goes, look at me. Look at me. That's it. He's like, because he saw it. He goes, you good? That's it. No, no, you good. Look at me. Look at me. And just hearing that familiar voice in the midst of the chaos is what got me back on track. And I think sometimes we have to remember that. There are times when we get knocked and we get, and we fall short and we blow it. But if we could have have a brother that would be willing to go, hey, look at me. No, no, no, you're good. Okay. And it helps, bro. We take, we tend to, we tend to live on past victories. And we also tend to live in our disappointments. You know, like, like we can, we can sort of define our self based on a past victory. But we, we kind of face the day based on our disappointments. And that's where we have to really, that's what prayer does, isn't it? Don't forget that disappointment to Christ. We go, you know what? This, I'm not going to allow. I will not be defined by my shortcomings. Yeah. I'm not defined as a man by the, by the fact that I've made mistakes. What defines me is, is the fact that I'm following Christ. I'm going to follow you back up. Yeah. In other words, I'm not going to be an Italian soccer player. No, I'm not putting that. Those guys get, they get a phantom hit. They're, they're no linebacker in the hole. You know, phantom hit, they spend, they lay on the ground, they put their hands on their face. Oh my God. You're trying to get a call from the raft. See that, see, I, but, but see, you're on it. You're on something to him, my friend. It's like, it's like, when you, when you learn that the true revelation of brotherhood, when we learn, no, when we accept that because a brother will tell you, again, he'll tell you who you really are. And that's one of the reasons why I love, I love this whole, a whole, uh, uh, sonship slash brother thing is because when you don't feel anything like who you are, there's nothing like another brother that has the ability to go, no, no, no, no, I know you feel this way, but this is who you really are. And that's what I love about it. I mean, I mean, you know, honestly, you know, if you, if you look at, um, it just rocks me and you guys, you guys are wonderful theologians, but it just rocks me, you know, in the, in the garden when, when Jesus leaves the nine and he takes the three and he starts like confessing, look, I don't want to die, dude, I don't want any goals to any speaks to the father. It's amazing to me how the father was there, but he still wanted his brothers with him. Yeah. He still wanted to confess and talk and, you know, and I think that's what we miss. We, we think it's either or when, when, when, when God is saying, no, no, it's both, you know, there are things that God, I'll hear, um, from God through you that I've heard that, you know, sometimes you may hear out of a voice and we speak in your heart, but most of the time for me, it's, it's hearing God's goodness from another brother. Yeah. And it's not always a direct word. Sometimes it's just a little sidebar. There's a little thing in a guy, I'll say something in a conversation and go, man, that's it. It just becomes, uh, the, the, the biblical word is Rayma. It becomes an alive word for you. Talking without a kelly, my brother, uh, and we're talking about brotherhood, Christian men's network, cmm.men, we are specialists in building brotherhood in your local church community, wherever you may be, uh, tools, resources, everything you need in order to disciple your own family and disciple, uh, those men around you or to be disciple to put it in process there in your local church, cmm.men, don't go to cmm. whatever, but cmm, Christian men's network men, cmm.men and you'll find all the tools and resources you need. Oh, thanks for being with us today. Let me, let me ask you this. How do I, uh, because sometimes here's, here's the problem. Here's the problem, because we, we're in an Instagram world, we're kind of in an instant world, we're kind of in this world for there's, there's everybody's a coach. I don't know, man. You know, it was like, uh, we could get on or go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm brave, I'm courageous and you the man and we write it on our dashboard of our car and, you know, you the man and then by that afternoon or the next morning, we're like, yeah, you were the man. Yeah. Yeah. How do I maintain that? Okay. How do I maintain, uh, this sense of looking forward, stumbling, picking back up? How do I maintain courage in my life? For, you know, for me personally, uh, I, I have learned, um, to, um, allow myself to see myself through the father's eyes. And what I do is I read what he says about me, um, I explain what he says about me. So, um, so many, you know, because there are so many opinions of who we are out there. There's so many, so many things out there, you know, and then it'll change, you know, by the end of the day, it's totally changed. But for me is the proclamation of how he views me, how he looks at me, how he, uh, considers me, how he thinks about me, um, and, and declaring that, not just, not just thinking it, but opening my mouth and declaring it over me. Man, that, that keeps me going. There are times, Paul, you know, that you're just, we were just broke down and we're just, man, but somehow, someway that word is able to transport you back to the place where you know you belong. It has the ability to do that. And so for me personally, when, you know, when, when David, you know, uh, when, and the whole thing was zig-lagging, all his boys were going to try to stone him and, yeah, or gone. What happened? It's like he didn't have too many people around him. He had to strengthen himself in the Lord. He had to go and, okay, and then remind himself, okay, we'll hold up. You know, I was at 15, 14 years old, man, I was body slamming lions through the power of God. And, you know, and I was, you know, 16, I was dealing with Goliath, and he started reminding himself and, and, and reminding himself how God viewed him and, who he was in God. And so for me, despite all the craziness that's out there, because it comes all the time, Paul, you know, but just reminding myself and declaring who he says that I am. And that just does something for me, transport him. Read in the Bible and reading it as real people who really lived. And if this is a word for me, when it says in the last days, I'll pour out my spirit on everybody. I read that for me. And the Bible says, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. I read that for me, right? And the Bible says, you are more than conquerors through Christ. I read that for me. When, when David laments and says, you know, I'm surrounded by my enemies. And yet you are my strength. I read it for me. I read Psalm 46 where good, man. Fusions are roaring and the storms are coming. And yet in the midst of that, God will be my refuge. I read that for. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. That I'm telling you, if we can develop a discipline, it's meant to do that no matter what it looks like. You know, no matter what is going on, what the circumstances are. You develop a discipline to tell yourself, the truth about yourself. You know, and you declare it because again, I mean, the Lord Jesus went, you know, when he was tempted, he just didn't think it, you know, the scripture, he declared it. Yeah. He declared it opened his mouth. You know, and we got to open our mouths and and declared because there's something about the spoken word over our lives that that that transforms the atmosphere. But we get knocked on Jesus. Every attack on Christ is the same attack you and I face because every attack on Jesus was on his identity. If you are the Christ, it's always an attack on our identity and our identity we find in Christ. You know, if we're not careful, dude, man, we get so covered up with injustice in this world. Yeah. And and man, that's not right. And this is not right. And we got this 24 seven interconnected world. And stuff can happen to somebody in Somalia. And we can get fired up and upset about it. Not a thing we can do about it. And we can carry this. We can carry this drama in us that that's toxic. And so getting in the word and saying, wait a minute, time out. Here's who I am. Here's the world I'm navigating. And be present in that world. Not to say we're not going to pray for those people and and and, you know, be behind doing something to help them or whatever the case may be. But be present in my world, which is loving God and loving others. And I want to close with that loving God and loving others. Give me the little hit on that. We God created us. Do that thing. You know, he said, do that thing. Once I learned and accepted the revelation that when God created me, he was thinking of others, that there was a unique and powerful radiance that that comes through me from him that's unlike anybody else, unlike anything else he's ever created. And that uniqueness of recognizing that truth. And what that does, it helps you understand that you don't have to be like anybody else, sound like anybody else, talk like anybody else, preach like anybody else, sing like anybody else. If God wanted you to be that person, you'd be that person. No, he made you specifically the way you are for the season in which you live. And once you if we can just accept that true revelation that that that we we got thought about us and continues to think about us. What is some 139 says, you know, all his thoughts toward us are precious. We're going to count up them the number of the grains of sand. So God is always constantly thinking good things about us if we can just accept that and walk in that and and and receive that by revelation. Man, it changes everything. Dude, that's that's just fantastic. You can you can get ahold of of sons to men. Auto's book by going to dad.dasheacademy.com. We'll put that in the show notes. And and then a brother thing. So Otto Kelly, thanks for being with us on Brave Men podcast. Brave Men is an outreach ministry of the Christian men's network over a hundred nations around the world where we help pastors leaders, churches, perishes, disciple men because when we change a heart of man, we change the soul of a nation. And my my picture, Otto, you and I have the same heart man. When we see the life of a man change, we know that a child's been rescued. Come on, man. Don't give me happy. That fires me up. That's that old preach myself happy this morning. But that's it, man. When I when we touch the heart of the man with you don't know, man, there's two or three little kids. Come on. Have a new dad to walk in that house. Come on. And that's what we do. That's the picture in my mind. And you've seen the photo of the man among Goliath. Yeah, man. And he was picking up his daughter from the little children's thing. And she probably looks like she's about three years old. And he turned around. He had a maximized manhood in Mongolian in his hands. And I go, I mean, I my only phrase I know in Mongolian is yo. So I go, hey, yo, he stopped and I took a photo and I've never I keep that in front of me all the time because that little girl had a dad that was going to love her. Come on. Hug her. Speak life over her because we did what we were supposed to do within that church with with Pastor B and everybody else that we were part of. That's awesome. That's it. That's the picture of it. So anyway, Otter Kelly, thanks for being with us. We pray blessings on you and joy in your family and your grandkids and everything your hand is such a cross for every place you put your feet with your holy ground. And God bless you man. Thanks for being with us, Otter. Always a pleasure, my brother. Love you. Remember hope is alive. Hope has a name. Hope's name is Jesus. Bless you man. You've just experienced Brave Man with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian Men's Network. Connect with Paul at cmn.man or write to him at Paul at cmn.man.