BraveMen S4E145: Ps Jamaal Bernard - Finding the Rhythm of Hope

talking today on Brave Men with Pastor Jamal Bernard from Brooklyn. This is a man who speaks hope, lives hope, and imparts hope into people's lives. It's going to be a great broadcast. Remember for all your discipleship needs for men, go to cmn.men. That's Christian men's network cmn.men. Want to also remind you about our Monday night Bible study. It goes through basically every week and it's up there on YouTube. Just put in Monday night men so you can watch it on Thursday or Saturday or whatever. I'm really excited about having Pastor Jamal on Brave Men podcast because as I watch his life and his father and my father were close friends and now as I watch him grow into this place of leadership with his legacy that he's living in. It's a remarkable thing. Today you're going to hear remarkable words from a man who's lived it, who's walked through it, and knows how to impart it in our lives today on Brave Men. It's Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole, wisdom and courage for the journey. Pastor Jamal Bernard, man, it's good to have you on Brave Men podcast. Pastor Paul, thank you so much. This is, I don't always to hang out with you as a blessing in my life, my eyes. I know, and you know, we need to do more just than just on Zoom. Right. I know. I know. I'm looking forward to be with you for the Royal Conference in November. I'm really excited about that. Yeah, I'm excited about you'll be at Lines, Lord November 345, seaman summit.com. And you're one of the featured speakers there. And as I mentioned in that little open I did, you and I talked just before we went on. The Lord's given you a word of hope. I mean, you really speak about things every time I see one of your videos. And by the way, you're the Associate Pastor of Christian Cultural Center, your father and his wife started years ago and has grown into one of the most significant churches in North America. And also one of the coolest logos. You guys do things so well. Thank you. I remember when you first built the new building because the first time I met you, you would have been a, I don't know, man, elementary school or something. I was young teenager. I owned Lyndon Avenue. Yes. The old one right there. Oh, yeah. At that time was called Christian Life Center. Christian Life Center, yeah. And so I watched the whole thing happen and the Lord just blow this thing up through his breath. And so Christian Cultural Center. And of course your father, Dr. A. R. Bernard, great teacher and leader and also very strong. And basically changed the name Christian Cultural Center. That's what you do. You guys are involved in culture. Yes. Yeah. And in that, sorry, go ahead. Well, that name changed him out of a conversation that he had. I think at the time was Mayor Koch. And he was disbanning the religious grouping of individuals that Mayor would have and just kept the Muslims and the Jews. He was disbanding the Christian religious council. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. And my dad asked why did you keep the Muslims and the Jews? And he said because those are not just religion, but it's also culture. And put them on this, this, this world win of studying, you know, this whole idea of culture. And he said, wait, no, Christianity is a culture. Yeah. You know. And so he just started, he named the Christian Cultural Center and created a whole theology of the house, understanding what does that mean. Wow. Well, and today Christianity is the true counterculture. Yeah. Yeah. Where are they? If you want to be authentically involved in something that goes up against, you know, mainstream, that's be a follower of Christ. Exactly. So now how do we deal with that then is as followers of Christ. And you have navigated. I mean, you guys, you're there in Brooklyn. You locked down, right? Politically when COVID happened, you're locked down. People are getting sick. People are in the hospital or packed. You've got the racial unrest. You've got rent issues in the burrows. You've got all, I mean, you've got a million different things going on. How do you navigate all of that as a Christian leader without getting yourself underneath it? Wow. I think that, that that answers the love of this layer. Yeah. Okay. I asked eight questions in one. Right. Yeah. I think it all starts with the whole idea of, okay, what is our hope anchored in? Yeah. Okay. One, your hope, you have to have hope too. It has to be anchored. And three, the question is, what is it anchored in, right? And like, like during COVID, I was at the gym working out and I heard it was a rap song, but Ed Young was like in the middle of the song. And I tried to throw it. I spoke a word part of it. He starts talking. They have Ed Young talk and pass Ed Young and pass Ed Young was talking about, he said, everybody can live with our food for X amount of days. I can't remember how many days he said it. And then he said, you know, everybody can live with our water and another X amount of days. He said, but nobody can live with our hope, right? And I think if we need to start there and help these individuals here, what can we have? Can we have hope? And what can we have hope in? And that was the start of us developing systems, structures, partnerships, relationships, individuals that represented Christ and culture. And say, okay, let's roll up my sleeve and say, you know, Christ is the hope of this world, right? And what does that, what does that look like administered in the context of New York City and all the unrest that we would develop? You know, Hebrew 619 says hope is the anchor of the soul. And I guess basically the bottom line is for all of us as men and women is where anchored to something. Yes. Yep. All of us that believe in something. Yep. Exactly. So the question is what are we anchored to? Yeah. And that caused a lot of people, you know, you asked that question, you have, you push a lot of people back and say, wow, let me think about that, right? You know, because some people are anchored into the finances, as long as my bank account is good. Some people are anchored into the relationship. Some of my people are anchored into the home that we built and things like that. But you know, like the Bible says, that stuff is leading, right? You need something that you have to anchor something that stands outside of your circumstances situations, whether good or bad. And until you find yourself anchored, it's something like that. You will be like the like the Bible says you like a ship, you know, left to the wind being tossed to the throat because you're not anchored. Well, I think maybe that's what's happened to a lot of us, Pastor Jamal. I'm talking with Pastor Jamal Bernard from the Associate Pastor Christian Cultural Center in Brooklyn, New York. And one of the featured speakers at Lions' Roar Men Summit coming up, the Global Summit of Christian Men's Network coming up November 3, 4, and 5 in Dallas. And there's still room in that, as you listen to this podcast, there's still some seats left at that. But I think maybe that's what's happened during this COVID, PTSD sort of thing. Pastor Jamal has become unanchored. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's pain. And yeah, yeah. And that's the thing, you know, one of the worst things about crisis is they say, oh, it reveals the cracks. I say, I feel that it reveals what you really anchored it. Wow. Wow. So this crisis reveals where we're really anchored. So for most of us, let's say a lot of us, we weren't anchored anything. No, yeah, we weren't. We're like a good dose. We were. Yeah, right. We thought we were, but when we say up here in New York, when you know, down to the nitty gritty, when the rubber meets the road, the question is that you bills, you know, really what you're anchored in. And that's why I love this, the story about Shirek and me Shirek and Abednego, right? Mm-hmm. They were anchored into the God of eternity. They were not anchored into the temporal things. They were anchored in God in eternity. So they respond to never can as it says, you know, well, I know our God is able, right? So we know the capacity with our finite mind as much as we can of this almighty God, right? But the key response was, even if he doesn't, right? And a lot of us as Christians were financed as anchored into saying, okay, I know God is able, but we had a hard time dealing with even if he doesn't. And when you saw a lot of stuff that was going on, I mean, I don't know if that's, that's an amazing thing for some young men to say, isn't it? Yeah, even if he doesn't, I'm anchored into the God as able part. Yeah, that's such a good word. But I need to go to the place where I'm, it's not just a, well, I have faith in God, but now I have to move to a place where I say, I've got trust. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. And then, you know, and the thing about it is, I think trust becomes the place where we find ourselves at, when all, all, everything breaks loose. Trust is a thing that keeps us stable in this time. Because think about it, Jordan Peterson was doing a talk and I listen to him, you know, I don't agree fully on everything he says, but, you know, there's some good things. You got to accept some great, you know, great statements. And he talks about this thing called the commodity of trust. And he said, when we lose this commodity of trust with it, you know, the people can't trust the government, can't trust each other. It becomes, you know, paraphrase and I'm using my words, we go to a place of selfishness and we leave a place where we can breathe chaos. And I think trust is so key in the time of crisis, in the time of dealing with, you know, what we dealt with here in New York that we would say, what can the people trust? One, the church, right? And two, what the church is preaching about this all living, all loving God. Well, that's, see, that's huge right there. How do we, how do we, how do you, how do you share a living Christ in an increasingly secular and hostile environment? I think Jesus, Jesus did it the best. Yeah, we met them with it. That is a quote. Put your name on it. Look at that. Look at that in Instagram. He just did it the past. We got to meet people with a yard. Yeah, he did. Whoa. Right. And but the thing about it with the lovely thing that Jesus did was he didn't leave them there. Right. The church has done a great job meeting people with a yard, but they haven't done a great job taking them from where they are. Right. And we look at the state, the state of the church, how polarized the body we are. I think how we didn't teach, we were able to be good at evangelizing good at being cool, but we've had a problem with, you know, discipleship. I don't think we did a great job at discipleship. And that's why I love what, you know, what you and your organization is doing Christmas network because you're about disciples in the mass. We see where you are, but you can't stay here. So where you are today, you can't be here tomorrow. Right. And so Jesus met them where they were, where they are, but he said, but you got to come up now. Right. You hear Jesus, challenge to think of his disciples. You said, you know, I don't, you can't see, the others can't hear, right. So in order for you to see him here, you have to come up another love. And there's a need for maturation. Like your father says, you know, and so I think, you know, what we did in New York, we said, okay, let's go to where the people are. Have these conversations, these well-needed conversations that churches not wanted to have conversations about the shot about, you know, they were scared, you know, being challenged. Church had a hard time. You know, the church has a hard time being challenged. Yeah. Right. And I like those challenges because it gives me opportunity to one, sharpen my skills. And two, you know, talk about, you know, the issues, the real issues of life. So you have Christ died on the cross. God is good. But what does that mean? God is good. My life is not in a position where it is good and how you got time that God is involved and, you know, good to be a part of it. And, you know, there's an element of free will. Let's talk about free will. There's an element of, of, of, of, yeah, that, you know, sometimes we're in a storm, not because of our decision, but because it says there's somebody else. Those are the realities, but the church doesn't talk about that. And they just say, you know, love God, love people and, you know, things are going to be good. Now, there's more to this conversation. Life is not as simple as, as that. No, it's complex. Now, the simple answer, the simple answer is following Christ. Yes. But the simple answer deals with complex issues. And I was asked in a conversation with some men yesterday morning, having breakfast with Sam Masteller and Bobby D and some other great friends up in Pennsylvania. And we were talking about how I said, I just looked at everybody, I said, dude, men are complex. They're looking at me like, no, I thought women are complex. No, I said, the fact you don't understand them doesn't mean they're complex. Excellent. That's a great statement. That should be, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, that's another one. But the fact is, is that because men see women, it's that old book that was so great about men are like Waffles, women are like spaghetti. Everything's connected. And so when you have a women's meeting or an event or a Christian cultural center, you know that if it's really great meeting, there's a lot of tissue involved and a lot of makeup streaming. Because everything comes out, but with a guy, he's still got stuff stuck in his little box. You can do a whole long meeting. And the guy's still got little compartments in his heart that he kept shut. Yep. Yep. Exactly. He's with you and goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is the way we ought to live, where we ought to live. And then he's got this little thing. You know, never fairly complex. I think that the church has been really good at wearing torn jeans, but not repairing torn hearts. Oh, that's another one. That's another statement. Come on. Come on, somebody. Yes, exactly. I do a few of those. You might invite me to come up and speak. I know, right? But don't they have to all start with the same letter? Wasn't that the part of the deal? Yep. Now I did see, I did see one you and your dad did that was a wrote down ARDLT authentic relationships doing life together. Yes. And it seems to be a theme that you and your DNA and the culture of Christian cultural center really puts out there a lot. What does that mean? So it came out of, so pass out, I'm, you know, Jordan versus brother and I have very good friends. And one of the things we said, you know, I told myself, look, I need a real friend. I don't need an individual that you're biking to church. I don't need somebody that, I need somebody that can be transparent and vulnerable, right? So you got transparently, you allow people to see certain things, but vulnerability is saying, you allow you to speak now until our life. And what we made of promises that we're not going to see each other. I mean, we're not, you're not going to see us preach it from each other's open until for a year, we're just going to build and do life together. We're going to do authentic, you know, our life together. If I'm crying, you're crying. You're crying on crying. If you're hurting, I'm hurting. Let's get to a place where I can trust you to where I know that my transparency is not going to be your next message. Come on. That is, that is so strong. That is so strong, Jamal. Thank you. That's, that's strong dirt right there, man. You know, my transparency cannot be your next sermon. Yep, exactly. Yeah, because I think we have a tendency to do that at times, you know, if I'm going to a friend the other day and has this thing, this thing. Yeah. Yep. There's a new dad in the new dad says, who's that friend? Oh, I was just, you know, yeah, right? Your mom, your mom says, who, you know, but this, I want to go back on this and I'm going to hit this again because I want everybody to listen. And I know you probably, you might be driving in your car. The load of Bob and Flagstaff, you might be working out the load of John and Houston and other guys. I know some of you will tell me, yeah, I always listen to the podcast when I'm working out or when I'm driving to work. But if you get somewhere where you can write this down, write this down to be transparent. You know, we're talking about brotherhood. I'm wearing the brotherhood hat, bro. Look at that. But we're talking about brotherhood. And this is really key because this is where we need to live because this is where we find strength comes from brotherhood. You know, you don't, it's like the old thing. A one man army, you know what a one man army is? Like, like, what was that guy, a Rambo? Yeah, Rambo. What's a one man army? You know what? A one man army is outside of a movie. A one man army is defeated. Yeah. A one man army is dead. You can't live on an island by yourself. You know, you're, you're with brotherhood is where Jesus live. In fact, Jesus was in a small group, right? Yep. It's like the end of brothers. But let me hit this thing. To be transparent is to allow you to see me. To be vulnerable. See, I wrote this down, man. The next time I preach this, I'll look at you. So I said, where you get this? Now, I don't know. The Lord just dropped it in my heart. To be transparent is to allow you to see me. To be vulnerable is to allow you to speak into my life. Yep. Man, that's strong. To be transparent is to allow you to see me to be vulnerable is to allow you to speak into my life. So as a leader and as a brother, as a man, desiring to have influence in the culture in which I live, which is what every single man who's a follower of Christ is called to. Don't think this is for a pastor, Jamal, or Dr. A.R. or Dr. Mark or some other guy. Every single one of us is called to have influence into the culture in which we live. In other words, we are the light in the world. It's dark. So you've got to actually unhinge that light. You've got to allow it to be seen. But in that, what allows us to stay strong, what helps us to stay strong, is to be transparent and vulnerable in a brotherhood. Man, that's true. And that's what you did with your brother Adam. You're free. Yep. Because you're friends and you just moved into a place of brotherhood. Yeah, exactly. Literally, we call each other brothers. And then you look at when the father died, my brother, the father died. Adam helped fill that void. You know, he stepped up and he was there. Yeah, he even though he's like a week older than me. Yeah, he responded. He was there. And to the point where now we're so close, he's my youngest daughter is Agatha. Get out of here, man. That's so funny. Hey, let me ask you something about that. Tragically, your mom and dad had seven sons, right? Yes. And two have gone to be with the Lord. Yes. How do you navigate that kind of grief? I mean, you've had to observe it in your parents, but you've had to do it yourself. How do you navigate? Because we are all of us. All of us either know somebody or have a friend who knows someone who has passed away during this whole tumultuous medical impact, COVID, whatever season. Because it's caused all kinds of other stuff. How do you navigate that kind of grief? Wow. And that was the biggest question. As people watched me, now he's discreet. And I told him, I said, I created this thing called a battle rhythm. And so a battle rhythm is military talk. And what they do is they create a system of meetings, strategies, and planning that it becomes a part of the normal living, a normal way of life for the military. And what they do is when a situation crisis happens, all they do is increase their meetings, their strategies, and their planning in order to step into the battle. So they're not caught of guard because they're always preparing, they're always planning. And so when I looked at it and said, wow, you know, everybody has some type of a battle rhythm. And I look at Paul, I mean, I Daniel, you know, and Daniel, I think it's chapter six. And here it is, you know, the decree is written. You know, he can't create any other God but this God. And he, you know, he said, he did normally did every day. And he went and prayed before God. And there's certain things that we, if he creates certain, I spurred your disciplines in our lives at a time of crisis, it's not there where, okay, now I got to pray or now I got a fact. No, this is a part of my, and all I do is just increase the rhythm. Yes, increase all the things in the rhythm. And now I'm able to deal with some of the grief and the tensions and then have the mature conversations that I have with God as, you know, because we all have the question. And I, and I, because he says, come down this reason together, right? So I mean, I can ask some questions, you know, I might, and I may say respect, but the question is why, let me, let me just camp on some real quick right there. You said something. It's just awesome. And you said, so I can have a mature conversation with God. Yes. Yeah, that means you can, you can actually wrestle with these things. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I asked him, I said, you know, why? Why? Or, like so, so with Fanzo died, Fanzo, his death was sudden. It was unexpected. So the conversation was, you know, it was different, you know, like I said before in our podcast that I had a list of individuals that could have gone before him, right? All right, thank you. Anybody listen to this, always has a list like, okay, God, you could have taken this person before that person, right? What about that guy? Yeah, right? Yep. And what when Jared died, the crisis was different because the question was, was this avoidable? And if so, did we do what we couldn't? Or did we do enough to avoid this, right? And so the conversation was a little different with God and dealing with your self-kill, looking at taking on a lot of patience. And what can I have done? Because in a certain time, I believe that, you know, was I sensitive enough to God? Was I obedient? He said, you know, call or, you know, so all these different things. And then I started having a conversation with God. But once again, I'm normally speaking with God. So all I did was increase the conversations with God that I was already having, right? I always worship. I love worship. So all I did was increase the amount of worship that I did. So with the battle rhythm, I established a system a way of my relationship with God works. And all I do is just increase the things. But leave room for new things to be applied to that rhythm. That is so good. I hope as you're listening to this, you're sometimes you can write some of these things down. This has been really rich. Pastor Jamal Bernard, Associate Pastor of Christian Cultural Center in Brooklyn, New York. And of course, you've got other outposts of that church. What's the website, by the way? www.cccinfo.org, O-R-G. And that's where you can, and also, you know, you can actually just put up your name on YouTube and a bunch of you. Yes. You can go up there, man. Yes. Dr. A. Bernard or Jamal, that's J-A-M-2-A-S-L. And so, and you've got a number of messages about hope. Yes. From different directions. You've come at it from some different places, which I think is really been great. You know, this whole thing about prayer is, you know, the friend Andrew Dawkins and Andrew, and we're laughing one day because I said, well, let's, let's pray over this. And he said, he said, oh, it's come to that, has it. Joaquin Lee, because he's a man of prayer, but it reminds me of Jonah. And Jonah was a man who talked with God on a regular basis. And then, when he didn't agree with God, he bailed, tried to run. Then he became suicidal, says, hey, throw me in the emotion. God saves his butt, sends a fish to swallow him. Now, at the end of chapter one of the work of Jonah, he's in the fish. And he's been there three days. And then, verse one of chapter two, says, and then Jonah prayed. Yes. Not only the fish for three days. Right. He's like, well, I guess I'm going to have to pray. Well, like you say, he was suicidal, he didn't die the first two. I think he's like a lot of us. The first, he's like, oh, man, well, Lord, thank you for saving me. I've got an idea, though, of how I'm going to get out of this. Right. And then the second day, God says, hey, you want to talk? No, no, I've got another idea. You know, that's, that's the thing right now. How do we navigate grief? Now, one way to navigate it is to have been, you know, battle rhythm ahead of time. We're in a rhythm. Yes. But here I am. I've just been busy with life. I've got kids going to school. We've got all this stuff going on. And now my mom's sick unexpectedly. Now I'm trying to navigate, getting these two kids to school, taking care of my mom, dotted out all these different things. You know, my wife needs this. And then the car and then there's something else. How do I navigate that stuff when I haven't had a rhythm? Wow. Man, so there's no cookie cutter answer for this. I think, well, that's the point. You got me. I think one is, some people might think this is selfish, but I would say, you need to start. Okay, let me step back. Let me take a, because one of the things in developing a battle rhythm is thinking, let me, let me survey the land. Let me see what. Yeah, let me get perspective. Sometimes when you're in it, it's very difficult to see the birds out of you. So, right? So they said, good leader knows how to fly up and fly back down, right? Get up. See the bird out of you. And then man's back down and say, okay, this is what we need to do. And I think when you're in it, it's very difficult to see it all. And for you to now say, okay, let me, let me step back and let me look at everything that's going on. Right? And while I'm stepping back, don't forget to look at yourself, right? Because you're a part of all the everything that's going on, right? Too often we step back and say, my mom, the kids, the wife, the car, you know, but no, what about Jamal? Put Jamal in that perspective, right? We can't forget Jamal. And if we, because if you forget Jamal, you're just going to go back and you're not going to be re-energized, right? You're not going to be prepared. You're not going to start strategizing. You're not going to start creating a battle room. So you take, you step back, I look back and say, okay, I see all the things that's going on. I'm watching them observe it. And what do I need to do? Right? And I think once you're there at that mountain peak, is when now you go on the face and say, okay, Lord, Lord, here, this is, this is it all, right? I need a strategy. I need, I need, I need a rhythm. I need a way. But, you know, I need some preparation. And then I believe the next step is as, so you perspective, God, now start talking to brothers. Then this is why brotherhood is so key. I think that's, I think you show up at Christian Cultural Center. I think you, you, uh, get a hold of a brother. I think you, you say, I think stepping back, getting to a place that's quiet is so key, Pastor Jamal, because so often what we do as men, yes, pretty much ready, fire, aim. Yep. I think we step back. I think we, we like, because we're all about action. Hey, I gotta do something. So then we do something rather than step back, get quiet for a minute. And maybe play some, you know, like what you do, you play worship music. Yep. Right? Yes. Smart. Just, just still that heart down a little bit. Get it off. I'm pretty beat to minute. Exactly. No, dial it down a little bit. And then maybe you put on, you know, something from, from you, you know, YouTube thing or a Phil Pringle or, um, Toronto or, or somebody that just speaks faith and life and you just go, oh, okay. Yeah. Lord, you're going to give me a strategy. And, um, you know, and then the next thing is don't, don't be paralyzed in fear. Yeah. Because the roar of the enemy is, is, is paralysis, you know, right? Fear realizes that stops us. And that's where you need to pick up the phone and just call somebody and you say, hey, I need you to pray with me. I remember one time and you've had this happen numerous times with you. I remember one time a friend of mine called me and he said, hey, can we need for coffee? I go, sure. So we met for coffee, but he said, look, can we go back out to the car and I go, yeah. And he began to tell me some stuff that was going on in his business. And, uh, so we sat in car and prayed because we couldn't have prayed in the coffee shop. Yeah. And so we just sat in a car and prayed for, you know, I don't know, wasn't like, there was no like purple cloud or, you know, we probably prayed for 10 minutes and then, and then, uh, I had a scripture to the Lord and press my heart and, uh, gave him a scripture. Yeah. He went on and didn't get better for a couple days, but then he had a strategy. I mean, it's just over the next couple days. Things begin to unfold and it became clearer of what to do. Yeah. And I think that's part of it is he, he just had to get his heart out of a place of anxiety and fear. Yep. And I'm in the midst of stress chaos, anxiety and fear and the enemy's wanting to do that. So that in my estimation, past normal, so that the enemy can then control our lives, control the government, uh, control the church, control everything exists on the earth because that's the desire, a dictatorship is a desire of the enemy. Yep. Yep. Jesus Christ came to set us free from the law of sin and death, which is basically a law of anxiety, stress chaos and disaster. Yep. Yep. And that's why I said, come with, you know, the people of peace, joy, a sound mind, sound life. You have a sound mind. You, you have, he's all, you know, the issues of anxiety and stress and you've created his system to help you deal with that. Um, yeah, it is, it's so true. And what you said is key because sometimes God has to give somebody else's work, you know, the brother that's the crying and with you, that's because you can't handle the word yet. So your brother receives the word and he has the skill set and the relationship, the relationship equity to say what God wants to say to you. Sure. Yeah. So brotherhood is so key and dealing with grief, dealing with success, dealing with stress. But like when you look at brotherhood is a place where you should be able to share all life experiences, the goods, the bags, the ups and downs, the ugly, you know, the sad. And that's why we push the second. No, I need authentic relationships doing life together. That's, uh, you'll be talking about that at Lion's Roar coming up November 3, 4 and 5. And you can find the details on that. C-M-N Summit.com. C-M-N Summit.com. We're going to the christmas network. C-M-N dot men. Uh, we could talk forever, man. You, you are a wealth of knowledge and understanding and wisdom and how I thank you. And, uh, really appreciate that. And you're doing that. Uh, you had to find your own place for that, didn't you? I mean, yes, you grew up in a household of faith. Your dad, Dr. A. Bernard and your mom, Karen Bernard, and you guys grew up with faith and you could have just kind of, I don't know, mailed it in. Yeah, yeah, normal PK thing, right? Yeah. But you had to find your own place, man. Yes. Yes. It was, it wasn't easy. Uh, but, you know, I, that's why I look at thinking God for your father. Yeah. Because it was your father's influence in my father's life to help him become the man that he is now, right? And, you know, and my father, you know, set on a path to say, okay, let me help you become the best you possible. Yeah. Right? And I think, you know, as men, you need to make sure we have mentors that are willing to do that for us. You know, there's an old phrase. Uh, I think it's an old, uh, maybe Confucius or Asian phrase that says when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. Yes. And, and I think that's BS. I think you have to go find the teacher. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. I so agree. I'm going to search him out. And I don't think you're ready. No, no, I agree. You know, it's, uh, David said, faithful are the wounds of a friend. I don't know for ready. We're pretty risk averse. I don't know for ready to be with. But I think if you're going to grow in life, you have to be willing to be stretched. Otherwise, capacity doesn't happen. And I think you're going to go find that person. And that's what I would encourage every single man listening to this podcast right now as we close that, uh, find that band of brothers and, and create that band of brothers. You may know a couple of guys that you think, you know, I'd love to have coffee with this man, you know, every couple weeks. We'll then start that. Just do it. Text them. You know, most other men are looking for relationship. They just don't have time to look to, to reach out, or they don't know who to, how to reach out, or what to, who to reach out to. And so when you do that, they're like, yeah, let's do coffee. That'd be awesome. Let's do lunch. Love it. Because they're looking for that. And I think sometimes we forget that we can be the answer to somebody else's prayers, much as they can be the answer to ours. And yes, yes, yeah. Right. And I know Pastor Jamal Bernard Christian Cultural Center, Brooklyn, New York, I know you are the answer to prayer for a lot of people. And I commend you for finding your center, finding that true North, becoming a passion that followed Jesus Christ, praying for miracles, praying for the power and anointing of the Holy Spirit in people's lives, because nothing transforms a man's heart outside of the incarnation of Christ. Amen. Amen. You are a student of the word and a follower, a passion follower of Christ. As much as you are a disciple of your father, you are a disciple of Christ. And I love that. And and the thing you shared about Adam, Dursal, you know, the friendship, the, the closeness. You know, and, and you're reading other guys, you're reading Jordan Pearson and people that, you know, they're out there guys. You mentioned a couple of you mentioned Ed Young and I'm thinking, Ed Young. That's on your radar. That's pretty cool. Yes. And you came about Ed Young, Jr. And you're in here in the, here in the Dallas area, who's a great pastor, go to great church. And so, man, I just got to commend you, Pastor Jamal. And thanks for being with us on the Brave Man podcast. The thing I've happened to you, if you have a closing word, I don't always do this, but I'm like, you know, this guy probably has a closing word for us that is just kind of set the whole thing off. What would that be? Wow. When I would, I would, I would say the reality is, we want design to do life alone. Yeah. Come on, man. We are designed as social beings. Yeah. And if you want to be successful life, you need to pay yourself for individuals who are doing, what you're doing, and get to know them. If you're the smartest one in your group, find a new group. But brotherhood is an essential part of the success of you as a man, as a husband, as a father, and as a businessman. You find brotherhood, you'll find, if you find true, authentic brotherhood, you'll find success as an individual, callistically. So good. Great word, good final word. Thank you, Pastor Paul. And again, for all your discipleship needs for discipling men, for for growing a powerful ministry to men in your local church, go to cmn.men. In fact, if you'll write to us, Bruce Robock and others who are on the team will get back to you with a leadership kit. We've got a whole launch kit that's been put together with about, you know, 50 years of knowledge and understanding and actually doing this stuff. And you can pick that up. It's got it's got 148 page binder. Here's the first thing to do. The second thing. It's got a quick start guide, the whole nine yards. And it's it's a powerful. So cmn.men for that. And then we'll see you at the lines what are cmn summit.com lines or passage or mall will be there. And it won't be the same without you, though, brother. Thanks for being with us today. And brave men, thank you, Pastor Paul. You're awesome, bro. Thank you, Pastor Paul. Love you, man. Love you too. You've just experienced brave men with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian men's network. Connect with Paul at cmn.men or write to him at Paul at cmn.man.