BraveMen S4E136: JESUS and Grace with Will Ford

Will Ford is the author of a number of books, including the Dream King with Matt Lockett speaking about breaking down racial barriers and racial tensions, shattering racial tensions is a remarkable man We met years ago. In fact, I was this pastor for a number of years and Will Ford's been a great friend ever since But his ministry Speak so deeply into our hearts. They also have eight one eight ministries dream stream Dreamstreamco.com is one and then eight one eight which speaks of the sign which is the wonders of of speaking into people's lives and how it basically comes from that Scripture where is it Chris was just telling sharing with me our producer? Is a one eight right? I and the children whom the Lord has given me are for signs and wonders in Israel And he's believing the next generation will be a sign and wonder of what's happened And so Will Ford is a is a culture changer and I love this man He's been a great blessing in my life. Judy and I spent time together and so today We asked a number of friends would you would you talk to us about Jesus? Can we spend some time just talking about who he is in your life? Maybe different perspectives and this has really been a remarkable series appreciate Chris putting this together and So talking about Jesus today with Will Ford is going to be very not only inspirational I believe revelational open up some things maybe we haven't thought about Put some things into our heart that that drive that deeper So we not only are believers, but we are becoming Like Christ a little J. Jesus right little J And becoming like Christ and this this time with Will Ford will do that for you and me So I'm excited about this. Hey for all the tools you need for mentoring men Decide playing starting a men's group in your church in fact majoring in men calm majoring in men calm Is a website that has a 12-part series how to start? It's free It's free through the support and gifts of men who support this ministry christian minis network This was put together a hundred thousand dollar production and put together a majoring in men calm And that 12-part series is free how to start launch sustain and keep it going to ministry to men in your local church If you're not doing that get a hold of us if you are doing that It's not effective get a hold of us and we can connect you with people that are Doing it and it is effective and growing a ran into a guy the other day Chris who's our producer here Chris I ran into this guy the other day and Cleveland, Ohio came run up to me says hey, man He said we started this about two years ago. We started about a dozen guys now. We got 28 men You know in our men's thing. I'm like dude well done So I that's that's where it's at. It's about and it's not just about the metric of You added some guys. It's about changed lives It's about a man who's made a decision Hey, I'm gonna get in this get on this change my heart my life I think about all the kids what are what I don't know how many kids 20s 28 men would have But it would change the happens here in a home for them So that's why we have these tools these tools are not about just Selling books or something like that. It's about changing our lives in the way we act and live and work as men See them in dot men christian men's network dot men for all those tools and the the audiobooks majoring in men.com So many things that to help us become Stronger men So today you're going to enjoy this time, but our brothers can be fantastic With will for coming up right now on brave man It's brave man with Paul Lewis Cole Wisdom encourage for the journey We've asked me today tell me about will for and I say you know the man's Uh The man's a remarkable prayer guy awesome dad Great friend. I don't know about his outside jump shots go. Oh come on man I said that's the only I got left now if I can if I'll have a jump shot. I'm done If you can't you should be just dunks and trees and then when I know man the dunks went away Man, it's all about the three but but they kind of I don't have a three ball my head thinks and I's going to work into more Thanks a lot past the feet. Yeah, well anyway, so I've known it said it for a number of years and you've had this You know you were an entrepreneur business guy when we first met right And and could still dunk Yeah, uh, okay So the Lord has given you this remarkable ministry so last night we're with some friends and I I said I'm gonna talk to a little forward in the morning on On Facebook and it'll be a part of the podcast and stuff and and uh, so they said I They said castes familiar name. I said so I like said let me tell you about this soup kettle So I start telling them and she goes wait a minute. I know this guy. I know this guy And so I want to get into that the soup kettle and we'll probably leave Basketball behind a little bit Okay All right, we don't certainly don't want to talk about the NBA. Oh lord So Anyway, but you live in Dallas area the Lord's giving you an incredible ministry. You've traveled the nation in the world doing prayer Interested teaching intercession. You've also been a professor at Christ for the nations. Yep You've been you've taught business as well as intercession, which I think probably actually goes together Totally Your business No, you won't pray and if you don't pray God has a way of messing with your business to get you into prayer room And that is so true will So uh, but uh Here's the thing that's that's amazing to people when I tell them So I'm gonna tell you about tell me about the soup kettle. Okay, okay, I'm gonna hit this as a background You've been an entrepreneur business man, right? You've been a professor Intercessor prayer partner with me prayed for our ministry Christmas network for years and went through tough days Going through all kinds of different changes that you get into ministry and different things that happen in your life And yet here you are right Exactly. Yeah By the grace of God. So I want to talk about grace today, but tell me about The grace in fact, let's just make that. Let's make uh, because you got you got some coming up. It's gonna be awesome You're gonna share with us by grace But let's talk about the soup kettle. Here you are. You're a grown man. You hadn't heard about this, right? Yeah, you know, the first time I heard about it was 16 years old you were 16, but before you heard about it 16 years old. I was at my grandmother's house there in footwork Of a of a of a famous street on Southside of footwork Southside you're a south you're a southside guy. Yeah, Rosedale. You're Rosedale. Yeah, southside Rosedale Rolling Hill Top six, you know top six. Come on. Yeah. Yeah, so uh, so I met her house and she says See that part in the backyard. I said yes, ma'am. Well, actually, no, I don't see you She's a second half way up out the ground. That's okay. That's like cast iron kettle pot. She's like, yeah She's I think God going to use you with that pot one day I was like, oh, okay. She said no, you don't understand That pot I had them bring them back up here from the fit in the 50s. It's been in the backyard since the 50s We were left with lake providence We forgot it so I had somebody go back and bring it up Reason wise because that pot was used by the slaves in your family They used it for cooking. They used it for washing clothes But I brought it back because they secretly used it for prayer. I said really what do you mean use it for prayer? She said well The master wanted them to be Christians, but he didn't want them to pray Because he you know, didn't want him to let them get the count hope for freedom Right, she said but they pray anyway. They go out into a barn at night. They take that pot And they use it to muffle their voices Wow, I was so intrigued by that. So the next day I was with my dad said then it was What's the what's the tell me about that pot this in the backyard? He said oh, I know all about that pot They and I told him, you know, well grandmother told me said well, let me tell you exactly how they prayed because Harriet Lockett my my great grandmother She used to tell me how they used to use that pot. She's out He said I was five years old and I was trump clothes with my feet, you know, I he said I was the washing machine And I was trump clothes with the pot with my feet and when I did the Harriet Lockett would tell me How they use that pot not just for cooking but for prayer She said what they would do is they would sneak into the barn at night Why everybody would sleep on the plantation and then they would take the pot and then turn it upside down Wow, and then they would take three or four rocks and prop up the edges Then she said they would lay flour in the ground and put their lips in between the opening between the ground and the kettle So that the pot muffle their voices as they pray through the night And he said and the story that was passed down is that they didn't think they would see freedom in their time So they prayed for the freedom of their children and they showed them their children So that's that was the story so I was like wow, so I go to this powerful conference Uh In Colorado Springs with Dutch sheets, you know, yeah, I remember this. Yeah, didn't yeah, I was I was at your church All this stuff started happening. Yeah, and come off a 40 day fast now that get their Dutchist church And he starts talking about unfinished business in the place of prayer And I got wrecked because I remember that kettle pot that's been in my family and how it was used And then I remember you a revelation five and eight says our balls and heaven full of incense Which are the prayers of the saints so they use that puzzle and acoustic They can be for the throne room There's not one prayer that's prayed that isn't taken before the father. Exactly. It's and it's not wasted Revelation five and eight and then revelation eight through five. He actually takes More incense more prayers and he answered to our prayers As that scripture with Jesus says out the mouths of babes and succulents comes perfected praise You know what praise they're in the Greek also be translated as prayer out of the mouths of babes and succulents Come perfected prayer. So it's like, you know When landing and your kids when they were when they were Kids and they come up to somebody else and ask for some while while they might not understand what they're talking about because you're that dad Oh, I know exactly what he's asking for give him some water, right God's got perfect severed quests so that one tier Is all we can get out of that groan is all we can get out We're praying for stuff. We don't know how to listen God. He's I'll take that I perfect the request and I know what it is. Yeah, I know what it is add my incense to end that in sense Yeah, boom and he releases the whole thing down the earth And releases thunder fire lightning earthquakes And one translates it says releases voices and that's what happened in the days of slavery You know got hurt the groaning of the prisoner Yeah, groaning of the slave and then he raised up voices for the voiceless like John Wesley Charles Finney He's great Revivalist abolitionist like Theodore Bell and others And it was the great Francis Asbury. Oh, yeah, Francis Asbury I was with Harry Hoosier Harry Hoosier those guys. I mean they were amazing Unbelievable stuff unbelievable stuff and they pray it in to be in the first and the second great awakening You know, if those Revival slavery wouldn't have ended the broth. Yeah, I brought freedom to the entire nation Yeah, and the cool thing is that you listen to those Revivalist and Abolishness taught Lot of them Realize that the Christian slave was their brother and so they knew they were fighting for family You know, we have documents of how many of them were there was shot killed lynched Todd and feather for preaching the gospel and taking a stand against slavery And so so you have you have this amazing remnant of folks that did that you have this remnant of black and white who who worked together in that So it happens laid on in my life. I have this dream with Dr. King and we've got dealt with me with my unforgiveness issues with the police in my area and and and some of the white people in the community around me and so after I had that dream Uh, the law was basically talking in my unforgiveness my bitterness issues about people in a certain area where I used to know that So I had that dream and friend of my lunges to hey share this dream with the link of a moral on in the case celebration day We have a prayer meeting that day January 17 2005 Well, there's this white guy who has a dream about the guy with the event never met him before Uh, name is Matt Lockett He was not part of any of our circles at the time. He was just a big guy like me before in in in in uh in Colorado Uh, Denver, Colorado area. So anyway, he comes to that event. We become friends. We've been friends for 17 years. Well fast forward That white friend of mine, Matt Blockett, he finds out that the civil war ended in his family's front yard And so it like man, what a trip, you know, I have this kettle pop was ladies pray for freedom Yeah, there's house where General Lee fought his last battle. We like well, what a cool cool incidents But then we stumbled on more research and we realized as my friend Matt Lockett's family who owned my family where that kettle pop came from And we met at the Lincoln Memorial both led by dreams to the place where Dr. Key said in his I have a dream speech I have a dream and the one day the sons of former slaves the sons of former slave on us could sit together at the table of brotherhood Yeah, so we wrote a book about a called the dream king how the dream model of the King is being fulfilled. He had races of an American You know, and so yeah, but Matt's amazing. But there's other thing too With Matt's story We also found out that Matt had a revivalist and an abolitionist in his family Who was one of Francis Asbury circuit riders? Come on man. Yes So yeah, he had slave owners in his family I said he spoke to priest the gospel and took a strong stand against slave because The circuit riders when they were priest the gospel they would Have in their satchel Manumission forms. So if they preached the gospel and a slave owner was there They would say listen Now you come to Christ and as for freedom the Christ said you're free now Won't you be a good example and go ahead and set your slaves free to and they will slide over the manumission forms And they will sign them to set them free and we know that happened because everywhere that the circuit riders went The free slave population grew exponentially. See, this is the thing that that uh, and I know uh like Ken Harrison my friend with PK he got Hit on this the other day about you know the Bible being a a book of slavery and All those sorts of things and yet Paul talked in Philemon about an East miss and he talked to the Philemon He says you treat him as a brother right regardless of this of what's happening in culture Mm-hmm Because culture quite often can be the issue Exactly, you know, just because a majority of people think something's right doesn't mean it's right And we've gone through that in the United States, but Christianity always sets people free and makes us brothers It has time and time. I mean a lot of people talk about how that Bible was used to keep people in slave Interprepituate slavery and honestly it was in the museum of the Bible which had opportunity being just a couple of days ago They have a old Bible from This in slave time period. Yeah, the book of Exodus is taken out in the book of Esther is looking out So there's no one would teach about that, but here's the thing people people can twist you can twist anything Yeah, so what you think is right, but once you come into once you come into contact what happened to you? In Colorado once you come into contact with the living Christ. Yeah Once the Holy Spirit the presence of God is is inside a man's heart His heart yearns for freedom and for freedom for those around them. It's Paul and Silas when they got set free The book of Acts because they had been put in prison For preaching the gospel they're seeing it midnight when they got set free Well, you know, I've talked about this years ago when they got set free Every prisoner around them also got set free. Yeah, so the so freedom's always about community That's so good and so Christianity's always about Jesus You know God if you will before he was anything else was God in community Yeah God was brotherhood before Before he made people So, uh, so let me go back and I know you you've got a thing you're gonna hit right here, but You know when you found this pot it really didn't mean something to you until there was this inspirational Moment I remember you coming back and telling me about being with Dutch and Dutch had a word for you and And it was like all of a sudden this this pot came alive. Yeah To me, it's like Luke 15 Well, we've got many of us things in our lives that haven't come alive And we need to holy spirit to this pot that thing Yeah, and Luke 15 it was there's three things in there and and has to do with the last sheep Good shepherd going to get the sheep And uh and then the third thing is the prodicle son the prodicle coming home the father was always there But the one in the middle is often overlooked. It's a woman who had lost a coin Yeah, wow. Yeah, and it was in her house And she did everything she could to to uncover where the coin was and what that speaks of Is that every person's life has value This and what the father does is uncover things everything he can to to bring out the value of that person That's the role of the church That's what the church is really about is to bring value to every single life And as you begin to travel with this pot and you met Matt and these things begin to happen and you do you truncated What I hope someday is going to be a movie Yeah, we're we're in talks What wouldn't that talks we we got Right signed up with some great guys Brian bird and Michael and in junior. Yeah, those are the right people I'm praying over this people everybody listening everybody watching right now pray over this thing because Movies have huge impact in culture. Totally right the way people have talked I mean you can think of stuff in in your era and I can go back to my era See there. I was nice. I was nice about that one myself and But the fact is we can go to these different eras and we can find movies that change the way we talk or the way we thought And I believe this is something needs to be out in a movie will I I believe I mean you and I talked about this a long time ago and you've got books. What's your website so people can go to it Go to dream stream Company dot com if you don't feel like typing that company out of a discipline. See a dream stream CO dot com and that's the website word dream dream dream like water. Yeah dream stream CO dot com dot com Okay, that's fantastic and right there is where and then also you and that did a book Would hit the book dreams the dream king how the dream amount of the king Is being fulfilled to hear racism in America. Okay, so now Uh, so now let's let's take it into this and a little maybe give you a couple of other background. You have four children You're happily married You gotta say like a man. Yes. Oh, yeah, I can hear this And you've got you've got two awesome children who have just graduated college. Yes, and you got two children that are in what grades Uh, first and third first and third So like you're gonna be young for a long time now. Hey come on. Yeah Keep that keep that outside shot. Yeah, and so uh, so at your background you were very successful business man And in professor and all this now you're telling this whole story And in in the world we're living in and you and Matt and the three of us. I think did we put uh christen that Show yeah, yeah, yeah, that was a big christen that show and we did uh We did a whole piece of the podcast. It was on last year It was fantastic and you guys telling the story but but we'll where we're at right now and you and I have been friends for a long time And we've talked about you know these things and the racism that you endured and how Where I grew up in California Man, you were just it wasn't the same kind of issue as it had been in the south except that Driving through the south when I was a kid Uh my grandmother My grandmother would would uh had had an issue You know race issue, but I can remember my dad we would drive through the south and we'd be hungry as kids or three Yeah, and we would go to a restaurant. That's my dad. So this is uh issue this 1960, okay Maybe the first time 57, but I think it was 1960 and 63 so in 1960 for sure we remember him our memory We have a memory of him and us going up to a restaurant and there was this little white sign in the front Now we didn't know what it said. It didn't matter. We were 10 and eight and six or something like that And he my dad would turn it on and say no, we're not going here Because they they have a problem with people here really we're hungry But it was a little sign that said uh white's only or wow or My dad and he taught us and it was part of my upbringing. So I never experienced the things you experienced in southside But of course have studied it been part of it and walked through all this with with my closest friends And it's so when we talk about racism in America, it's it's real Even if somebody says well, it's you know It's no not a big deal anymore. It's still a thing Yeah, still people living with it and so now We're opening things up, which I think is healthy Problem is if we open it up without the light of scripture and with our grace We tend to look at everything based through the lens of law Right, yes, this so yes, so true and that's uh, that's kind of what you see with what's happened with the critical race theory You see a lot of three boys are either pushing forward or pushing against it right now And what is critical race theory for people who are wondering uh, it's basically something that's not in the legal area Derek Bell he was a professor at Harvey University after the American man and I mean he began to look at critical theory which kind of comes from comes from Marxism, but he thought well What about critical race theory looking critically at the legal system in America and seeing that the influence and effects of racism Through the legal system and the impact that it's had not just Americans, but after the Americans and the country and so And so what's happened is probably as a descriptive ethic where you can talk ethics one things I talk at christmas nation You know, you got three or four different branches of ethics descriptive ethics in a normative ethics normative ethics would be a like a prescriptive ethic for a nation like put in a speed limit signs of that's a prison right if you people from you know having a race descriptive ethic would be something where you look at a society like a sociologist and you can map out certain things and see why a society acts the way it does Right, so you can understand some of the symptoms. So as a prescriptive ethic critical race theory, you know, looking at different things like Jim Crow vagrancy laws the federal housing regulations that said you know don't then To blacks and underwriting guidelines Those different things you can you can see The influence and effect that it had on after the Americans economically and otherwise And then I think right now we're dealing with probably the residue of some of those systemic things. Yeah, but the people who are part of it This is totally of course Mostly a secular just kind of a construct where they look at all with society like that the 1690 starts but it starts with Some assumed givens. Yeah, so some of some well it winds up to some of some give us after it makes No, a lot of different, you know, it's consistent themes over time And so the ultimate assumption is let's push story about it to certain categories all white people at races all black people are perpetual victims And that's the problem with it as a prescriptive ethic is it becomes very problematic at that Well, it doesn't it doesn't produce a solution Mm-hmm then produces a solution that keeps people kind of stuck But yeah, people on the other side who where you have some folks who see critical race theory and everything And see racism and everything you have another group of people to see Critical race theory and everything you see CRT and everything in other words Anytime somebody talks about the racism. Oh, that's just that's just critical race And they totally dismiss it. That would be people will part of you know the church or whatever Who's speaking to this stuff? And then we want to making this making the mistake of not staying at the table when we're overly dismissive come on In that regard, but here's the thing though. I believe especially with the story that I've seen played out my life and With the story that you and I talked about over years of Francis Aresbury and Henry who's a black and white working together How you get rid of the people who did that? But all throughout history you can map out like we could have a race there. You can map out Racism, but you can also map out the hand of God in killing our history this morning That just through revival and revivalist and reformers But just his hand and how he just how he's woven people's lives together to bring healing and into And to work on this name from another level the narrative of Race or whatever is one thing, but there's a meta narrative And that's the meta narrative of God's involvement to bring about healing and change And so while you have critical race theory I believe there's something called critical grace theory Come on critical grace theory And I'm teasing it out. I'm playing with it But I'm talking to different friends about it But I believe critical grace theory sees the hand of God Well, we can look back and see where God was involved Working through all of our mistakes, working through all of our Affairs and everything else. Yeah, there were some people who used that Bible to keep people enslaved But there were another group of people who used that same Bible to set a whole nation Yeah, and God you can see the hand of God like you can see the hand of God working in my life in our frame that lockers lives Life I live together and I believe there's critical grace theory what one of the stories even connected to that is I was in Charleston South Carolina Charleston, South Carolina Is the place where you know for some to is and many people say that's what the first shot of the Civil War happened Well, I would like to Put before you that there there was another place where another shop was by that could be the first shot It was on Anson Street Anson Street in Charleston, South Carolina There's a pastor there named John Gerardo John Gerardo had a booming church of 60 people 48 enslaved African Americans and 12 white people But he got hungry for God and he say you know what I'm done preaching We're just going to commit to prayer. I'll let you know when we stop they prayed for months Then one day John Gerardo said he felt electricity at the top of his head Go to the cell of his feet and look back in the prayer room and everyone was in tears But he knew when just for something that was happening to his church and inside of the four walls of where he was He knew that this was something for all of Charleston and he was right There was another church not far from him That within three days they have 400 new congregants In three days in three days his church grew from 60 people to 2,000 people on a Sunday morning In just one year. Come on. That was Well, I've I've not heard this before man. Yeah, this is 1857 And so the reason why this was so catalytic That the the Presbyterian church was John Gerardo's part of they thought you know this new day prayer me thing You got going. It's pretty good. Let's keep that going all up and down the east coast and then when they get to New York They need a and they asked his little business guy named Jeremiah Lancer to hit up that for me So that's for the new day permanent is in New York came from during this where they came from and that spread to over a million people across the country in 188 So in other words, the ancient street prayer revival Was catalytic and birth the new day prayer me on Fulton street with Jeremiah Lancer here And so what happens is that's 1838 so what happens people begin to change their minds about slavery Because yeah, free blacks and slave African Americans and also white people all In churches together right together. Yeah, and then John Gerardo They tried to throw him in jail because he was so good at discipleship All of the enslaved people could quote scripture like the back of their hand So they thought he was teaching them how to read and then back during that time as it gets a lot Just keeps them slave people to read so they're trying to find ways to throw him in jail Then also people can change their minds about slavery and then before you know it boom of course, we have the Civil War And so that's why I say a lot of people think the first shot of the Civil War happened there Uh in Charleston that are for some to but know the first shot of the Civil War happened on Ancestry In a prayer me. This is brilliant This is yeah, it's critical grace though. It's critical and it's not even a theory. It's the grace of God We can map out the hand of God in healing our history. It's good Same God Some CRT is CGT. Yeah grace true. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is fantastic man Hey, uh, your website again is uh dream stream co Yep stream dream stream co.com com and so you've got books materials and all kind of stuff You know, well, what you're sharing right now is the kind of thing that you and I have actually I guess walked and lived through over the last yeah, we just did did life together, you know, and yeah You know, I mean we even talk about raising everything every day But no because you don't we just live it up. You don't have to Now in that sense because you're Even though it's been something it's it's on the it's always on the front of my mind Okay, but but when I sit down with like uh friends of mine who are different ethnicities than I am and by the way It's like the you know my my youngest son Bryce and you know my kids My youngest son Bryce kind of set us straight when he was I think five when we were talking about some things and And we had a friend who was a Hispanic Latin and he goes yeah, I want to go play with that brown boy I go yeah, okay, and I said and then it's something like at that point I go water. We goes well We're peach So we've always been peach That's it You know, it's amazing. You know the human genome project came out in 2000 and he's the head of the NIH of Francis Oh, forget his last name And the guy is ahead of the national institute of health And he did the human genome project years ago and his final summation is he said there's only one human race Yep human genome project and uh he he was He said there's ethnicities Mm-hmm He said, but there's one human race. It was amazing. I remember it was a Clinton was still the president at the time Mm-hmm and uh and he got up and he made this made that statement. I never forgot that in Traveled that but I also think these are things that have to be front of mind because we we have to be proactive as followers of Christ Yeah, what do you think about this this statement? No, I'm gonna hit you I'm gonna hit you just totally. I mean we're friends. We'll be friends Even if later you call text me go dude I don't want to talk about that But here's what I love about you and me is we talk about everything anyway And that is this whole uh thing of You know people bring up all these things and they say well, you know, it's not really uh my fourth in July Oh Yeah, you know, it's yours And and yet I tracked back you know you in Boston there was a there was actually a case That the declaration for all men are created equal that phrase Was actually used in a legal case in Boston to set a black man free of his slavery Wow It actually became a legal precedent So when we talk about some of these things we have a tendency to Be really narrow and really like the way we see it right now. Well, we should we cherry pick our history Yeah, yeah, so you you read a book by somebody who they don't say that they're critical Race theorist they'll just operate in it Okay premise that you know, you know one group is all oppressor and one group is all the rest And they'll put together a book like like 300 pages as large trope and I say this is a survey of history where we're just going to focus on this one aspect and while many of the things in the book are factual but because it's just one theme and it omits You know the other parts were you know yet other people who Gospel menaces who sought to set people free and actually gave it lies for him to heal like a lot to be loved Joe who's you know They burned his house down and shot and killed him because he took a strong stand against slavery And now to little nor you know you miss stories like that out and you have this 304 page book with this one theme It builds a narrative in people's minds and and you don't you don't hear the other stories you robbed of the nuance and the complexity but more importantly The transforming hand of God that was Active at the same time. Come on man. So that's why I love the Bible You know we get to find out everything about King David. Yeah, he's a man after God's on the heart But he that same heart was also kind of wicked In the messed up. We name our kids David after a man who killed his best friend to get the guy's wife. Yeah So the Bible says the whole story so I think this was happening in a lot of these narratives We're just hearing one aspect of it and While that that does have his place. I think The other thing that definitely has a place that needs to have me more highlighted is the meta narrative It's God and that's why I say it's critical grace not critical in terms of like a poke nose Critical in that it's critical that we understand the grace of God in healing. Yeah Yeah, there's no question, you know the hand of God you know and when you talk about narratives one of the things that you Not talked about a lot is about a man's identity is definition how he sees himself right now your definition had to change How my definition had to change from where I grew up on the you know surfing on the beach and you grew up Hooping on Rosedale and Our our definitions had to change and Jesus did that for us. It did the beauty of following crisis whatever that narrative is Jesus came to help you write a new narrative. Yes Jesus came to help you Write a new story Jesus came and basically look at look at like this You know God does not God is not looking at your past to help create your future Yeah, exactly That's not looking you know, it's San Corinthians 517 says if a man becomes a follower of Jesus Christ He's a new creation old things have passed away So I look at some people it's You know Well, I don't want to mention about some names, but I there was somebody came on the other day and said I just apologize for the things I said when I was a kid And I hope you don't hold those things against because we change people Change in the power of God changes men's hearts from the inside out. Yeah, it does It does You know, and I think that's where where you and I have lived and I believe that's where we have to live as followers of Christ And what you said was really key well is we can't push back from the table of discussion Well and truth But I think that what that means is that Jesus Christ came to complete the law He didn't destroy the law the law the law has its purpose. It shows us where we're imperfect people Shows us where we've messed up. It shows us where we need a savior It shows us where the meta narrative needs to be Centered into our hearts that we do we need a Christ who changes the way we think about each other. Yep As Francis Collins Francis Collins National Institute of Health. He's a follower of Christ He did the human genome project and as a follower of Christ he a strong believer He came up and he said there's one human rightson and for me that was this huge. Oh, yeah, it dropped a huge Because yeah, what when you talked about in there too, and there've been other sociologists and Demographers that worked on it, but they they're all these other Unbiologists that all the social scientists they know that Skin color only makes up less than one ten to per percent of who a person is Like we are all the same outside of yeah in color and There've been some so and there's an amazing book talking about it By Robert Sussman called the myth of race He talks about the construct of how we Skin color and all that stuff and white supremacy all there was all woven into the social sciences by the by the Who apart the eugenics movement and all that stuff I'm trying to get to that, but yeah, but all that stuff makes that up So the deal is you know, there's in a sense there's only one race is the human race ethnicities culture all those things And here's the deal we're selfish by nature Yeah, you could go to you go central Africa the who twos in the tootsies, you know Who we think look exactly the same exactly exactly killed each other by the hundreds of thousands That's what was talking in the last 40 years yeah, and and you could read three months over a mate me and people would kill Yeah, and you go to the Serbs and Croats Who for me Because I'm not from there, and I don't see the difference out. I don't see the difference Yeah, man do these guys were brutal on each other and this kind of thing comes out of it comes out of sin It comes out of the pit of hell. Yeah racism is from the pit of hell That kind of stuff comes from the pit of all this is and yet mankind has had that had this Everywhere it's not like it just started in the us And actually, and you know and my wife is Texan so I got I got browsed but she the thing is The us was used It we were one the first ones to start undoing racism and undoing Slavery especially We were first ones to start fighting against it on the global scale so Hey, you know, well, thank you, man. This has been fascinating discussion. I always love The fact that we can talk about this a long time and you and I have and I look for to see in you soon And we need to grab the girls have some dinner most definitely like to do that You're you're traveling you're speaking dreamstream co.com Yes, sir And uh christian men's network you've gone through maximized manhood and See a man and we're brothers and I pray blessing over you will and your wife and family And I pray every place you put your feet will be holy ground everything your hands touch will prosper And will I pray over you that God would keep you deep within the grip of his favor and grace as you travel and keep you safe and Jesus man I love you, man. I love you too. Thank you so much for your feet Yeah, I gotta I gotta tell people I do I do have I do have a legit name Past your feet You've just experienced brave man with Paul Lewis Cole Paul is president of the christian men's network connect with Paul at Cmn.man or write to him at Paul at Cmn.man You