BraveMen S4E131: JESUS, the Revelation with Robert Barriger

All right, this is brave men. I'm Paul Lewis Cole. It's great to have you here. You're going to meet and hear from Dr. Robert Berger today. He's a friend who's been on a couple times on brave men, but today it's about Jesus. Well, it's always about Jesus on brave men, but the bottom line is we asked a couple of friends to speak on Jesus. Who he was to who he is to them? Who he was when he was on the earth? Aspects of him that we haven't thought looked at and so we've got a number of friends who looked at it from different angles and looked at the life of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is an amazing man. He's one of my heroes. He went to with his wife and two little kids, went to the Amazon jungle 40 years ago and then after out of that, began to reach people in the streets of Lima, Peru and then from there planted a church called Camino de Vida. Now one of the more significant churches in all of Latin America and he speaks into the lives of pastors and leaders and he's going to speak into our life today. This is going to be truth and if you've got a chance, if you've got the ability, it might be working out or in the car, but if you have the ability to write some things down, he's got some amazing content in this. Remember for all the tools you need to disciple men and for the fulfillment of your own dreams and desires in your life, go to cmin.men, christians.network.men, books like communication, sex and money, things like strong men and tough times, also on audible.com and other audiobook places, there's the audiobooks that are available to you, read by the author's son or the author himself. And so it should be a great thing to listen to. Hey, here's Dr. Robert Bariger today on Brave Men. It's Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole, wisdom and courage for the journey. I'm with pastor Robert Bariger. He was the pastor of community of Vida in Lima, Peru and dear, dear friend and we're going to we're going to talk about the revelation of Jesus Christ. Right? There's a book called that. Yeah, it's the last book in the Bible. Yeah, we usually call it the revelations. I think when I took like biblical survey in Bible college, not that I remember much of it, but it seems to me what they did is they they covered the whole Bible and then said, oh, and then the revelate this part, revelations as we called it. It's over here. That's a separate class. And we often think of it. I mean, really, we read our Bibles, we go to the self, we get to the revelation of Jesus Christ and we're like, yeah, okay, I'll come back to that. And I just want to read something. Brian Simmons said Brian Simmons is he translated the passion translation. And he said this, this is not a drama of Satan's worst because it's kind of how a lot of us think about it. It's like the pouring out of the cup of wrath or the the beast or the horror babbling. I mean, that was a good one. I remember in the 60s that came up a lot. Yeah. And this is not a drama of Satan's worst, but a supernatural drama of God's best, pouring through his beautiful son, Jesus Christ. And so Robert Berger, Lima Peru, Camino, David, you are considered basically an expert specialist. Whatever you want to call it. On the book of the revelation of Jesus Christ, tell me where did that come from? And do you agree with Brian? Or is it? You know, one person, a very well known person who said, this is the picture of how God's going to basically nail you if you're not a good person. No, absolutely. I agree with that statement. It's interesting. I got into the book of Revelation probably 45 years ago, or longer. I went through Bible college in San Diego. And our pastor began to teach or his passion was in times book of Revelation. And he taught the revelation class in the Bible college. And his take on it was different from what we'd heard in those days. You know, back in the 70s, it was the late great planet Earth, deep in the night. A lot of these things. And he had a different take. So his take was at first confusing to me. But when I graduated Bible college, I began to teach in the Bible college. And he gave me the book of Revelation to teach. So I figured this is 45, 48 years ago, I figured I'd better really get my own conviction on this. Yeah. And from there, it began just developing. It's right now, it's my favorite book in the Bible. And it's interesting because how you said that. And I'll give you a few reasons why real quick. But when you said the revelations, if anybody was in my class, I've taught this in Bible school, literally physical classes for over 30 years. And if anybody said revelations, they immediately flunked the class. It's not revelations. It is one revelation. Wow. And it's not a revelation of the end times. It's a revelation of Jesus. It includes the end times. So I say it this way, there's 66 books in the Bible. 65 of these books are written from Earth looking to heaven where God mysteriously moves. There's only one book written from heaven looking to Earth where we see the church literally as Jesus sees it. Wow. And in this book, it's the book where we see that we really are more than Congress and Christ Jesus. When you understand the purpose of the book, so revelation. And we just passed the holiday Easter, the great resurrection celebration. Yeah, we're in the Easter season, which is why we're spending a lot of time talking about Jesus between Easter and and Pentecost Sunday here with Christmas network. And that's the emphasis here is the Easter season isn't just, you know, like we did a day. Yeah. It's every day in this Easter season is a highlight, basically, of the church. Exactly. And everything about the book a revelation is Easter. Wow. We're seeing Jesus not as he was, but as he is. So everything about this book, if we go to the very very first chapter verse in chapter one explains it. Yeah. Where it says the revelation of Jesus Christ, the revelation of Jesus Christ, it's not a revelation of the end times. It includes the end times. And that he is the word revelation, which comes from two Greek words, apple, which means take away or removal and liptico, which means veil. It's the word we get apocalyptic. It's interesting how we get the word apocalyptic today. And we turn it into some end time is pieced in, you know, the apocalypse. And then, you know, our friend Tim LaHae, right? You know, the left behind series. Yeah. It's with Terry Jensen. And, you know, that thing. And I remember growing up back in 60s, 70s, the chick tracks. Yeah. Where you're done, man, in 666 and it's going to be stamped on your forehead. And basically, now what's funny about some of that stuff is it, you know, in one sense, maybe it was good because it scared the hell out of us, right? But, but man, it was like a lot of those prophecies were like, by the year 1999, or by the year 2001, here we are, 2021. And we're living in some of these things. Go ahead. So the apocalypse, I mean, for a lot of us, that word is like, man, that's scary now. Yeah, it's, it's interesting how it's taken on that connotation of the beast of that great end war at the end of the age. But the word apocalypse, the literal translation is the unveiling. Wow. So when you think of what it starts out with, one, one, it's the unveiling of Jesus Christ. Wow. It's not the unveiling of end times or the unveiling of the beast or the unveiling of the last seven years of church history. At the end of the age, it's the unveiling of Jesus. Well, Simon says who translated a passion. He said his opening line. And that's what, this is a great, so thank you for helping me because it says this is the unveiling of Jesus Christ is how he did it in the passion. Yeah, exactly. Now the NIV says the revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants, which must soon take place. Well, in a sense, that could be true. One of the other things I would say is who is the author of the book of Revelation? Wow. It's not John. No, right? Jesus. Yeah, because John said, and this is to me, this is the credit to the credit of the Apostle John, who they couldn't kill. And historically, we're told that he was put in a vat of oil oil in oil and he came out with baby skin. They couldn't kill him. So they stuck him on an island, right? Off the coast, Patmos, under Roman guard and said, well, good, go rid of him because all the other disciples were dead. And they put him on an island and they go, good, and we'll never hear from him again. And then the beauty of the first chapter for me, in a human sense with John, as it says, on the Lord's day, was I was worshiping. And here's a guy under great duress, stress, Roman guards, probably not in a good situation in terms of his living conditions, his room, all his friends are dead. And what did he do? He kept showing up on the Lord's day. Yeah. John just kept, and to me, it's such a picture of who we need to be, no matter what, we just keep showing up. And then the Lord showed up, right? And then it says, he said, write this down. And for me, it was kind of like this for John. His story wasn't over until God wrote it. And so God always writes the last chapter. Yeah. Well, if you remember when Peter and John were fishing in Galilee after the crucifixion, and Jesus showed up cooking them breakfast on the beach. Yeah. And when Peter dove in the water, swam to Jesus and was forgiven, with you love me, you know, I love you, feed my sheep. Well, when God gave Peter that prophecy that said, when you were young, you weren't where you wished, but when you're old, you will be taken. And it's said, this Jesus spoke of the death Peter would suffer. Well, Peter's immediate reaction was what about him looking at John? Yeah. I'm going to die for you. What about him? And Jesus said, what is it to you if he remains till I come? Wow. So when he was boiled in oil, there was one more book that needed to be written. Wow. So what is it to you that he remains till I come? He couldn't die because there was more purpose in his life. He had to write this revelation. Come on, man. And it's the revelation. Come on. Like I said, of Jesus. Yeah. And just let's take a step back from, you know, being in the Lord's hand, hearing that voice behind him. Most people, when they think of Jesus, and I tell this to the class a lot of people, if you close your eyes and think of Jesus, what do you see? And most people see Jesus as a 30 year old man, 33 year old man at the Sea of Galilee with children with a lamb or at the cross. That is how he was. See, the book of Revelation says that he was the lamb. Jesus is no longer the lamb. Today he's the lion of the tribe of Judah. Wow. So it's the lamb that today is the king. He came as a servant. Now he's king of kings and Lord of lords. So we think of him as he was. And that was John. The last time John saw Jesus physically. Right. Was at the Mount of Olympus when he was taken up and then a cloud hid him, is it were? That was the last time John saw him. That was it until Revelation 11, where the Bible says in the Lord's day on Sunday, he was in the Spirit. He was in a place of worship, probably in a cave. He's a very old man, you know, in his 90s, probably. And all of a sudden he hears a voice behind him. And I love this because the Bible says he turned to see the voice that spoke with him that sounded like a trumpet with many of many waters. And when he turned to see the first thing he saw was the golden candlestick. And then he said in between the branches of the candlestick one as the son of man. Now one Revelation 120 says the candlestick are the seven churches. And the image that that gives is we have the church, which is a candlestick. A candlestick is the light of the world. The church is the light of the world where we shine through, you know, the church. The next two chapters, two and three shows some churches shine brighter than other, some the light is, you know, some a couple of the light went out. But in that, letting the light shine, Jesus was walking in the midst of the church. So when he sees Jesus, he didn't see the Jesus he remembered, brown hair, 30 to 33. He saw his eyes were like fire, hair white as wool. Literally he was rest, I'm thinking in Spanish, but there was a light that came out from him. His feet were, you know, bronzed as though they'd been in a furnace. So what he saw, and this is where it gets kind of fun to dig a deeper into this, he saw the resurrected Christ. As he is versus who, what he was, he came as a servant. Today he's the king of kings. Now, let me hit something just a little sidebar in here. And we're on Facebook live with Dr. Robert Barriger. And many of you will be listening to this on a podcast, seeing it on achieve lab, which is part of the Christmas network, cmn.men website and a collection of over 400 of videos of some of the key teachers in the entire world like Dr. Barriger and others. But this, this is a little background for some of our friends who may not know your background. You're out of California, Santa Monica, old Santa Monica surfer, right? Civic Ocean Park. And go radically saved as a, as a teen surfer, were you late teens at that time, right? Yes. And then went to a, and then you asked somebody, what's the next thing you do? Well, I think you go to Bible college. So you went to Bible college. Hey, what do you do first? Well, you go to church and you go to Bible college. What do you do next? You're going to do something difficult. So you move you and your wife were both children born when you moved? Yeah, kids, Jenna, my daughter was a year old. Taylor was two and a half years old. Okay. And you and your wife, Karen and two little children moved to Peru to the Amazon. Basically, you went, I mean, moved to Lima and then you went into the Amazon. Now, look, the other little sidebar, sidebar to the sidebar is that you did know that they had waves in Peru. Actually, I found that out when I came here. Oh, come on, surf in the world. It's that you got, you have up north, you have the longest left in the world, don't you? The longest, right and about wave in the world. Yeah. You can ride the wave for two miles. Yeah. That's crazy. You got to have people pick you up and drive you back to the start. Or take 45 minutes to walk back up the beach or walk back. Or like me, it'd be about a two-minute walk after I got wiped out. So you move there. You go to the Amazon. You're in the Amazon for about half a dozen years or so. You're helping people through some dramatic experiences which we've written in some books you've talked about. You end up starting a church with a bunch of young people. The church has grown and today it's a commuter divita, one of the most significant churches in all of Latin America. And you are also now Peruvian, you and your wife. Right? We are what we eat, then we are, but we're still American citizens. We're in a religious visa. Religious visa. Okay, that's it. But the thing is is that you know, this is an amazing deal. And here you guys, you've been locked down for how long, Robert? Is that right now 13 months? 13 months. In that 13 months, in this nation of Peru, where a lot of people are at the poverty level and whatever, your church has done amazing outreaches because I watch it on Facebook and so forth. You've done servolution all over the nation, helped people that were hurting and had to go online with church for now 13 months. And in amidst all that, you've had people accepting Christ on a weekly basis. Yeah. One of the stories that I love to hear is we have had people now that have given their life to Christ online. They went through our new believers class online. And now they went to one of our small groups online and now they lead small groups online. In fact, their virtual natives, they've never stepped foot in the church, but they're a bit as much of an active member of our church through the online. So. So there've been disciples online and that are leading small groups and your small groups have actually increased. Yeah. And we move it and double the small groups. Now, you know, you know, you had four groups and went to seven or eight. That'd be amazing, but you had hundreds of small groups and they've gone into over a thousand, almost 2000 now. Yeah, we had right around 750 small groups and now we're, you know, 1500 plus small groups. It's just keeping people connected and we love the, you know, the church is flourished. Like you said, Peru is one of the hardest hit nations with COVID. We're, as we're doing this podcast, still we just came out of our like third lockdown. We're probably the last month and a half have had the hardest month and a half our churches had. We've had three or four members of our church that have died every week. Oh, Jesus. Members of our church. So it's not been an easy time during this time of this pandemic for us. And because of the poverty in this nation, we began to figure out, well, how can we help people? So we started figuring out ways to get food to people that needed food. And in the year 2020 from March 16 to the end of the year, we served over 230,000 people. Good. And this was just one church. And this year already in the first three months of this year, we've served like 55,000 people. It's the need is there. We find an itch and scratch it. So. Well, I thank God for you and commuter to Vita. And people that are watching you can give to this go to is a commuter to Vita dot com in english life missions dot com life missions dot com. And we can give there. You can give financially there and help feed the nation of Peru. You've got some other great churches in the city. I've met a number of the pastors who are friends of yours. You men all and ladies, men and women, you all work together. And it's amazing thing to see because you arrived at a nation that was in the middle of it was full of terrorism, almost a civil war sort of setting. And now things are all moving, you know, even with a pandemic, people are being saved, things being changed, lives being changed. It's remarkable. You know, it really is. So and now let's get so I just wanted to give everybody a little background on that. And so in that sense, we see where this is coming from. So when we talk about let's go back into talking about the revelation of Jesus Christ, it is about Jesus. And sometimes we think, I mean, this is maybe it's an American thing, you know, it's kind of like we feel like Jesus showed up on Christmas. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like like he like he wasn't there somehow in the first covenant. Like he was there somewhere. But what you find in the revelation is an explanation that he was there for everything wasn't he? Yeah. The word revelation is the key though revelation of Jesus Christ. Revelation is a revealing, not a hiding. Yeah. So this doesn't hide until the end of the age, the symbolism. It reveals verse three of chapter one says, Blessed is he reads the word to this book. That doesn't mean only in the last seven years of church history or just before the great tribulation. That means anybody from John, the polycarp is disciple to all the great and the leaders in church history. The Bible says, Blessed are they that read? Wow. And the reason you're blessed if you read this is once again, it shows us not as we see us but as Christ sees us. It's the view from heaven looking down to the church and it shows us where we are more than conquerors and it shows Jesus. Yeah. Not as he was but as he is. So when you see him as he is and just back up and get into theology for a minute, bear with me for a minute on this. I love it. When Jesus came and became a man, the Bible literally says Philippians, Philippians is something in Spanish again. Philippians chapter two, it says he unclothed himself of divinity and clothed himself in the flesh of a man. So Jesus never did any miracles as the second person of the Trinity. All of the miracles Jesus did because he submitted himself to a man. Every miracle he did, he did through the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, or Christ. Now Christ is not a last name. It wasn't Mary, Christ, and Joseph, Christ, with their son Jesus Christ. Christ means the Messiah or the anointed one. So everything Jesus did, he did through the power of the third person of the Trinity. Why? Because he later said to us, the works that I do, you shall do also, and great awards. Yeah. He said, I go to the Father and he says, I will send him to you the Holy Spirit. It's where Paul said, don't you know that you are temples of the Holy Spirit. So bear with me for a minute on this. It says, and this is just, I love this going through the exegesis of this, or going through the scripture interpreting scripture, because who John saw on that day when he turned to see the voice and his hair white as well. In the book of Daniel, it has the same description, and he's called the ancient of days. I love the term for Jesus, the ancient of days, because the word literally translates, and it's found in Daniel chapter seven, verse nine, I think, but it says, when he's the ancient of days, it's he who is older than days. In other words, it's John one, one again, in the beginning was the word, the word was whenever the beginning was, was before it. So the reason I want to say that is he's the ancient of days, it says, and listen to this, John chapter one, we're going to do a little bit of exegesis for a minute. John chapter one, verse 18 says, no man has seen the father at any time. John chapter five, verse 37 says, no man has even heard his voice. So if no man has seen the father or no man has ever heard his voice, who did Moses talk to in the burning bush? Jesus. Yeah, who was the angel that Jacob fought with and called it the face of God? Who was the fourth man in the furnace? The ancient of days. The ancient of days. When no man has seen the father, but it says the son, in verse 118, he has revealed to them. If we go back into exegesis again, it says John 424, the God is spirit. Okay, God is spirit. When Thomas, Jesus rose and he said, unless I touch the wounds in his hand, or the wounds in his side, I won't believe it. Jesus said, touch. And then Jesus made a statement and it's found in Luke 2439, but Jesus said, touch my flesh because Jesus said, spirit doesn't have flesh and bones. So if spirit doesn't have flesh and bones, no man has ever seen the father because the father is spirit, then in the Old Testament, when we see the second person of the Trinity, which was always God as man, as man that was Jesus. He undressed himself of that, became a man, and when he ascended back to heaven in the resurrection, he reinvested or re-dressed in that divinity to what he was before. And that's why everything about the book of Revelation is the resurrection. We're seeing Jesus as the resurrected Christ, the king of kings, the Lord of lords, the lion of the tribe of Judah, and we see him active in the church. That was Paul's entire message. Paul the Apostle, when he preached and we read his epistles, he never recounts a lot of Jesus' parables. He doesn't go back through a lot of the teachings. He talks about he was died, defeated death and resurrected. Resurrection life was the hope that the early church preached. That was in some ways, that was their whole message because even the stuff we read today was still being written. He is alive, and he is hope. That was it. That was the message. Here's hope. Paul said, if there wasn't the resurrection, then our faith is in vain. It's not only he was the first fruit, and because he rose, then we know that we shall rise as well. Now I've got my faith in the eternal one, my hope in Jesus is not like there's a ranking. Father, son, and then the Holy Spirit. They're all in one. Now here's the revelation of Jesus Christ, but there's also like 666. Am I going to have to get that if I want some bread? If you understand where it says the revelation of Jesus Christ, who he manifests to the church, the word manifest can Greek literally means through symbols. In other words, the book of Revelation is a book of symbols. If you understand the symbols, each symbol has it's you find that symbol someplace else in the Bible. I've usually heard it taught at times where there's 66 books in the Bible, 65 you interpret this way, but the 66th book of Revelation has its own mystical interpretation and people get into the mystics of it, but it's really all the symbols in Revelation are found somewhere else in the Bible. They all come back. Well, because it was one author. Yeah, exactly. So that's fascinating. When you go into this, for example, you mentioned the mark of the beast. The book of Revelation has five enemies that the church has. It defines five enemies. The dragon, the beast of the earth, the beast of the sea, those that have the mark of the beast and babble on the harlot. There are five enemies that you find in the book of Revelation. Each one attacks the church in a distinct way. With the exception of the dragon and the dragon is unique in he attacks, you know, directly that is Satan himself, the church in the bride. So when you talk about the beast, there's two beasts in the book of Revelation. There's the beast of the earth, the beast of the sea. The sea is the sea of humanity, which talks what comes up out of humanity, governments. And sometimes in certain places of the world, governments are what attack church, going to Nero and Rome, going to different places in history where governments rose up against the church. What's happening in China right now? China and other countries. Yeah, the beast of the earth talks about we are made of earth and the false prophet goes behind him. It's and there we see false religions. So you've got false religions that attack the church, you've got governments that attack the church, but the mark of the beast is anybody who follows those beasts. So it says, and it's interesting, you know, it's on the mark is on their forehead and on their forehand, on the hand. And we've heard for years, you know, there's going to be a chip that's going to be put on your hand or a tattoo or something on your forehead. But go back to the symbolism of it. As a man thinks so easy and the actions a man does with his hand. So in the book and chapter seven, it says 144,000, which is another symbol, have been sealed on their foreheads. We don't have seven seven seven on our forehead. Okay. In other words, through the blood of Christ, through our salvation, we think different than the world thinks. Yeah. I don't know how many times I sit back and I think I don't know why. How could I have thought what I used to think? My mind has been renewed. Yeah. And my actions as a Christian have changed. I don't do what I used to do. So the mark that is on your forehead or on your hand is your actions and your thoughts. And remember, this is a book written from heaven. So what you what the what it little translation is, there are those who follow the beast. Be it false religion or false government. And there is a mark in their actions and their thoughts. Those who are following the beast. Yeah, they're marked. They're marked from there's also a mark on us and it's our actions and our thoughts are different than those actions and thoughts of the world. Yeah, should be. Should be. Yeah. Come on. But the fact is our thoughts are different. Our thoughts are different. And our actions. Yeah, should be different because our mind, the minute we become a follower of Christ, minute that amazing incarnation of Christ is in us. I heard it was watching a video of Jack Frost, the author who passed by over years ago, but watch the whole video of his and he said, uh, who wants to get closer to God? He's teaching some people and you know, everybody goes, well, you can't get in closer because he's already been, he's already incarnated in your life as a follower of Christ. Yeah. Yeah. So now what the revelation is is to help us actually be unveiling, if you will, of our thinking. Right? To be in the think like Jesus taught. What was it? Is you studied this? Because I mean, obviously, you've taught entire semesters. Just clear chapters, but you started in this 45, 46 years ago and over the years, you've had different things that came up and went, wow, I didn't see that before it didn't see that. You know, it's John who said, you know, at the end of his epistle when he said, hey, to write everything down would take all the ink in the world. Uh, in other words, God is an ever revealing, self-revealing God. And it's like, however big we think his grace is, it's bigger. How do we think his love is? It's bigger. But what was it that that really hit you at some point about Jesus, studying this reading this and one day he just go, wow, it just really impacted you about Jesus Christ. Yeah, it, it's unfolding. Like you said, you know, I've studied this book for 45, 48 years and I'm still marveled at it. Still when I dig into it, like, whoa, I didn't really realize that. That's pretty cool. Little details, little nuggets, bigger nuggets at times, but it's that revelation. Remember, Revelation doesn't hide. Most people think revelation is a hidden secret. And where John said, blessed is he who reads this. That's anybody because when you do see it and you understand who this Jesus is, seated at the right hand of God the Father, we are more than conquers in Christ Jesus. We do get the victory. Like people talk about the beast again, but it says that there are those who got the victory over the beast. I'd rather concentrate on that. Yeah, you know, we have a tendency to, to, if you will, go to the, the exceptional, uh, the, the wildness of manners is beast and then there's this thing, there's this wagon and, and uh, really what it is, it's, it's the, the ancient days on the white horse, man. That's what the picture is, right? Because the, because really it's a book of hope. It's a book of victory, you know, we're so drawn to the mystical. That a lot of people look at the symbols and they turn to the mystical side of that. Um, and they're, we've heard it this way that so many people translate the book of revelation, they translate it, I want to say mystical, but we can call it symbolic. So they translate it symbolic until they're forced to translate it literal. Okay, and I would rather translate it literal until I'm forced to translate it symbolic. Okay, um, there's so much of this that it deals with in symbols. Why symbols symbols are universal in application. In other words, if they apply to somebody in John's day, they apply to somebody in my day. It's universal in application. It applies to any culture. You can have the African culture, the European culture, the Latin culture, but the symbols are universal in application. So it applies to the whole world. And it says, you know, these are things he symbolized to us. Yeah, you know, uh, anybody who's ever shot purchase something at Ikea knows that symbols work cross. I am one who never stepped foot in that store, by the way. Yeah, but you put some of the stuff together because your wife is up foot in there. Yeah, yeah, the together. Yeah, there you go. So the thing is, is that all the directions are in symbols. And so now, you know, I get that, um, you know, as we sort of wrap this up, well, how would you teammate this in a practical application to me? You know, uh, like my friend Bob and he's, he's listening to this, driving to work and flagstaff and running his business. How does this, how do I make this an application in my life? I look at it this way, um, it's a behind the scenes look at what God is doing. So you as a TV producer and you've seen this many times, um, I remember as a child, I got to visit, I grew up in Los Angeles and a friend of mine's dad worked at 20th century Fox studios. And for I think it was probably his seventh birthday, he got to take a few of his friends and I was one of them to go see the studios. And I walked into the studios and I just wanted to see lost in space, you know, that original series. I wanted to see this spaceship and I wanted to see the robot and, yeah, um, I remember walking on the set when they were filming it. And all of a sudden, I realized what I saw on TV, there was so much more behind the scenes. Wow. So much more going on. There was people everywhere, not just the three that were on the screen and, and, you know, there was, what you saw was it real. So what the Book of Revelation does to us is sometimes what we see, it shows us behind the scenes that there are spiritual forces, there are demons, there are angels, and it's God taking the veil away saying, this is what I am doing. Uh, you know, it's not the beast. It's those who get the victory over the beast. It's not the dragon. It's, he was cast out of heaven and there was found no more place for him in Revelation 12 in heaven because he was the accuser of the brother, but now the blood of Christ covers us. So when we take the veil away and we see all that's really happening with, uh, the spiritual forces behind the scenes, then it's like, oh, okay. We are more than conquerors. I can get the victory and my prayers are really being answered. One of my favorite parts of the Book of Revelation is chapter eight, where it takes us through the Old Testament priestly sacrifice where he would take the animal, sacrifice him and then take the coal and the blood and bring it into the holy place, mix the coal with incense and it would go before the holy place and mix it with blood. Well, in Revelation eight, you got that whole picture happening with our prayers. Wow. So where do our prayers go? An angel takes him in a veil with the incense that's the prayers of the saints. He mixes it with the coal of the altar. In chapter five, Jesus was crucified on that altar. His blood was sprinkled in heaven on that altar. So we see the blood of Jesus mixed with our prayers going before God and then the Book of Revelation shows two cups. It's the cup of wrath and the cup of blessing. So as the world fills up the cup of wrath, we fill up the cup of blessing and there comes a point where God just goes like this and pours blessing over the church revival and judges those who have opposed the church. So our greatest gift we have is prayer. Wow. If we only knew what happened when we prayed, we pray more. Wow. And this is what we see. It's behind the scenes. What? Sometimes we pray and we wonder where did my prayer go? I just hit a brass, you know, sealing. Yeah. Doesn't fill it. No, you're just keep praying. You're filling your cup. Wow. That's incredible. Robert have been talking with Robert Baragher. So Dr. Robert Baragher is a pastor of commuter divita in Lima, Peru. And actually talking to you live from Lima, Peru. And here and myself here and for worth and we pray for you guys. You and Karen and your children, Taylor and Jenna and their wife and husbands, husbands, Pedro and Shana, their children. You guys have faced a tough time and you're facing it as champions and we just want to commend you for that, Robert and Karen and just tell you how much we love you. And for the Christmas network, we thank you for being on the board of the Christmas network. You've been a guiding force with them what we're doing all over the world. And really pray that over the next few months, I continued increase in the church growth and that God keeps you deep within the grip of his favor and grace. So Robert Baragher, thanks for being on brave men today, which is the podcast. And thanks for being on Facebook live with us. And is there, is there, do you, do you have an online thing? Can we go look at something on this? All right, in Spanish, if you speak Spanish, we're actually doing an online podcast through the book of Revelation now, but it's all in Spanish. Yeah, just wanted to say Paul, your father was my spiritual father, your dad, Ed, when Luis Cole, he was dear to us, helped us increase our world. And you and Judy are dear friends, we're honored to be on the board, but it didn't matter if we were on a board. We just love you guys, love your friendship. And love, we love getting to do what we get to do. Yeah, which is making difference in Peru. Yeah, and you are. All right, I'm going to say goodbye to all my Facebook friends. And somehow I'm not sure, oh, here it is, I found a button. So I love you guys, God bless. You just experienced brave men with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian men's network. Connect with Paul at cmn.man or write to him at Paul at cmn.man.