BraveMen S4E130: JESUS with Mark Chironna

Man, I'm excited about the Jesus series on brave men. So we've got a number of key men, teachers, leaders, theologians, and today, theosimiotician, a doctor of ministry and future studies in an MA on psychology, Dr. Mark Sherona. And I've asked a number of men, and Chris produced this, who's here with me right now. And the concept was to let these men just talk about Jesus, who is to them, what he is in his life, and about his life. And so we get these different perspectives. And I love this series. I'm glad we're doing it. We've done it once before, and this is the new start of it. So Dr. Mark Sherona today, and brave men, remember to get the tools for mentoring men. Go to christianman.network.men. Also, events that are coming up in different areas, whether you're in Phoenix, or in California, or in Pennsylvania, or Florida, all across the country, we've got different events going on. And then in Dallas, every year in November, the lions roar. And that'll be on there. C-M-N-DOT-Man, C-M-N-DOT-Man, christianman's network. So Dr. Sherona, great friend, lifelong learner, and a man that has taught me so many things. He loves stretching people. He'll start, he'll start like sharing something. You go, that stretches me. But his concept is, stretch you in order to help you flourish. Here's Mark Sherona today on brave men. It's brave men with Paul Lewis Cole, wisdom and courage for the journey. We're alive on Facebook with Dr. Mark Sherona. And Mark, we've had a relationship for a number of years. And one of the things that happens when you and I talk for me is my heart is more filled with faith. I have this deeper sense of groundedness, if you will. And so at this Easter season, as we have this conversation, and I want, no matter because for me, every day is Easter, right? Sure. Every day is a celebration of resurrection life and his death on the cross. But I wanted you to walk us through Jesus and his mission. I'm captured by the statements of St. John wrote when he said, Jesus knowing his mission was completed. It's a pretty amazing statement, said it is finished. And so Dr. Mark Sherona is noted author and somewhat, what, the amateur singing attrition, is that what you're telling me? I've got a doctorate in it. I don't know. I know. That's that's my point. I got a bunch of letters that make it sound like I got something to say. You said, Lynn, with, Lynn would be the guy and I'm like, no, you're the guy too. And pastor of church and living edge, a brilliant high energy, high impact church in Orlando, Florida. And so Mark, thank you for taking the time to be with me and talk about Jesus because especially as you and I are talking live here on Good Friday, it's a remarkable time. What is it that stands out? There's so many different levels of meanings on this. What stands out to you personally right now for you and your wife, Ruth? I think first and foremost, I'm reminded of Athanasius famous quote, he became as we are that we might become as he is, that in giving himself for the life of the world, this act of sacrificial love, this self emptying of himself in love for us. You know, I find myself the older I get, the more hello I get. I'm a pretty intense Italian. I have, you know, I, God, God, a hold of a dysfunctional Italian from New York. And it's taken, you know, almost 48 years for me to admit that I'm dysfunctional. And, you know, you know, but you, wait a minute, but you still dress intensely. I do that. They can't, they can't, they can't, they've tried to cast that devil out of me. They can't do that one. They just, I'll have the Lord deal with that when I get home. He's going to judge me. I think it's going to be a whole lot more of that than we think when we get out. Yeah, lots of stuff's going to burn up. I know in sure on the standards, oh, Lord, I'm just glad I'm saved, you know, but, um, but, you know, I, Paul, I, I think when we think about Christ at the cross, which is good Friday, we think about him totally identifying with us in our humanness that the way God shows us, He loves us is He becomes truly and fully human and the ultimate expression of humanness is this self sacrificial love that He gives Himself for us. He does die for our sins, but He, He does more than that. He gives Himself for us and for our totality. And, uh, I, you know, I don't, I don't know that we can fully appreciate that in our youthful zeal, but, you know, the longer we live and walk with Him and His love, um, to realize how big those three words are, it is finished. Hmm. They, they, they, they boggle my mind more today than they did 48 years ago. Hmm. You know, yeah, there's, it is finished, you know, and it's a fascinating, as you and I were discussing a few moments ago, we both jumped on that word today and our devotional stuff we did online to tell us die, uh, which is, it is finished. It, it means the thing that jumped out of me about the meaning of that word to tell us die, because it's a Greek-originated word that the Hebrews used in their language, the Jewish people. And the thing, the one thing that jumped out at me, uh, is that the debt was paid. It's a word that means they would stamp it on a, let's say you had a contract and you were paying off something. When it was paid off, they would stamp it to tell us die. It didn't mean your debt is canceled. It meant your debt is paid. Tell me the difference in that. How, how, how do you, it's, it's one thing to cancel a debt. It's another thing to assume that debt so that when your debt is, if, if my debt is canceled, that's, that's certainly a, a great relief. But if my debt is assumed, fully, it means that this is not something you can just cancel out. This has to be reckoned with. There's something here that is unavoidably the consequence of my profound alienation from God because of, as Augustine spoke of, original sin and originating sin. The somehow we tend, we might think, well, we wouldn't have done what Adam did. When an actual fact, we would have, you know, um, you know, what, what's interesting, you know, I, Paul, the older I get, the more I go back to the early church fathers, I had been exposed to them. Certainly when I was in college, in my undergraduate work, and double majored in music and, and, and, and, and religion, I had enough credits to double major in religion, but, you know, I had to study the early fathers back then. And, um, but I've rediscovered them in the last decade or so. And when, when I think about the fact that they, the way they contemplated the cross and the way they understood this self-sacrificial love of Jesus, that, um, when we realize, and, and, and here, here's the thing, it's not, you know, the reformers talked about penal substitutionary at all men, and it's not that he had the propitiation for our sins. But if we start from a tonement theory in the great reformation, and ignore all the other ways in which the cross was looked at from the very beginning, we missed the fact that yes, there's something judicial here. There's also something profoundly therapeutic, because sin is both, um, the reality of my offenses and my transgressions and my rebellion, but it's also profoundly, uh, tied to something that is like a disease that has pervaded the totality of my being, and I can't get rid of it. I can't, I can't get rid of it, I can't disown it. It has to be owned. It has to be expiated. It has to be assumed. And so for the debt to be canceled would be to say, well, it really didn't matter, but it really did matter. It mattered. I'm off for God to say, I've got, since you can't take care of this, in my love, I will assume this for you on your behalf. I'll carry your debt. Yeah. You know, that, that's really strong. And, and, you know, that whole piece, you know, if it's, if it's just a tonement, in other words, you're saying it's so much more than that. Well, yeah, and that, yeah, I mean, there are about eight theories of a tonement. You know, the argument is that, that, you know, there's not just one theory of a tonement. Paul never set out to, now I realize my reformed friends are going to give me some backlash for this, but that's okay. It's part of the fun of health and debate. I think there's something to be said for looking at the atonement in a much larger way than simply reducing it to the judicial aspect of it. Because Christ gave Himself. I don't think we fully grasp. Christ gave Himself. God, when we say, for God so loved the world, that word so there, so loved the world. No, that's, that's loveboat. No, God so loved the world. God, the so loving is that God gave Himself in Christ. It's in this manner that God loved the world, that Christ assumed the totality of our humanity in all of its frailty, weakness, and there at the cross, He takes on our brokenness and the violence that entered into the human race because of sin, and allows all that to be assumed in His person so that we could become who we were intended to be. So, what isn't assumed can't be redeemed. Well, so that He assumes it all so that we can be fully redeemed from it all. Yeah, see, if it's just a tomat, to me, there's, if you, if we're not careful, it can become a hands-length transaction. Yeah, yeah, where there's no intimacy, no sense of, you know, He did this for me. He's a judge, but He's the lover of my soul. Yeah. Love Me gave Himself. This is how He so loved me. He says, I will assume this for you. I will assume this as you, and then I will give my life to you. I mean, it's mind-boggling. No, it's not just transaction, it's incarnational. Absolutely. Totally. That's, that's, that's the word. That's it. Yeah, so this is the same God who wrote Song of Solomon. Right. So, to me, when Jesus prayed our Father, marked to me, He, and he, it wasn't just, here's, here's what our relationship is. As, as Paul wrote, you have many 10,000 instructors, not many fathers. He's our Father. But Jesus invited us into and opened to us his joint, his airship. Exactly. His life. Yeah. We receive communion, the third cup, and all of those things that go with it off the, what would have happened on Thursday with his disciples? To me, I always look at the, the bread, his broken body is my past, and the blood, his life flowing blood as my future. This is my little, my little, I, I need visuals, you know? What do these things mean? And here's my broken past, I take that first, and now over my broken past, I pour the blood of my, of life for the future. Just those two things. And then, to me, then the whole, the whole communion time, whatever, whatever, however you want to style and call it, to me, it then becomes like very personal, my past, my future. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And here it is. And so, when he says, do this in remembrance of me now, we connect the dots to the thief on the cross that says, remember me. Wow. Oh, there's now there is the one way of looking at that text, you know, remember the opposite of this member, which remembering the, the brilliant theologian Barbara Brown Taylor did a series on that years ago and wrote a book on it. But the other part of that is has to do, I think, with the memory of God. Here's a thief who has spent his whole life taking from others because he has nothing he can see that is from himself, that is worthwhile. So he has basically, in being identified as a thief, this is a taker who thinks he's entitled to take what doesn't belong to him because he's lacking something in himself. And here at the end of his life, this thief who starts out mocking Jesus according to one of the synoptics by the, by the, by, by noon, he begins to rebuke his friend and saying, hey, wait a minute, you know, we're accusing him and he's done nothing wrong. So something has changed in him while he is present to the one in the middle who is dying for him and giving himself for him. And he like a disciple who rebukes another disciple for saying something in appropriate, he says, we've done wrong. He's done the wrong. So the spirit's already at work within him. And he doesn't say, remember me when you come into the kingdom, he says, he says, you have a kingdom, I know you're a king. And he says, I recognize you really are the king of the Jews. And he said, he said, I just ask you, don't remember me based on me being a thief and a taker and a stealer. Somewhere in the remembrance of God, whatever I was supposed to be, I'll die content if you'll just remember who I was supposed to be and not who I've become. And Jesus that I'll go one further today, today, since you hear his voice and your heart has been softened, today, you'll be with me in paradise because wherever I am is paradise. And so the remembering, and I think for us Paul, I think a lot of time, look, I am the older I get, the more I am aware that I am both a sinner and a saint at the same time. I know it's not popular because we want to brag about how we're saints and everything. But you know, one of the prayers I have prayed from the time I was 19 that has followed me and deepened my appreciation for God's grace is Lord Jesus, son of David, have mercy on me, and I pray it more today than I did 48 years ago. You know, I'm aware of how many areas in my life are full far short of his glory. Yeah. And so I need him to remember me for who I really am and not for all the dysfunctional things in my sin that get in the way of not only others seeing who he is in me, but even me knowing who I am. Yeah, it's definitely in terms of back to definition. It's I'm not defined by the things I started with. I'm defined by the fact I'm a passionate pursuer of the pleasure of his presence. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what befoges. So when we talk about these things, for men, talking to men, I liken it to this. You get the vacuum cleaner out. You go in and you vacuum. Your wife comes home and says, what did you do? You saw a vacuumed. She says, well, thank you. And then she walks in the same room, turns the light on. And now we see what we missed. And it's for me, it's the closer I get to the light, the more I see the stuff. Oh, yeah. Right? Yeah. Wasn't it Paul? Paul that started with, you know, his first writings were called to be an apostle. Yeah. And his last writings were, he described himself as chief of sinners. Yeah. And when you talk about remembering it, I just turned to Psalm 78. It reminded me of the men of Ephraim. And it said on the day of battle, the men of Ephraim turned back. There were, it says they were skilled warriors. Right. They were men of God. They knew what they were supposed to do. They were in the army of God. It says in the day of battle, the day of crisis, they turned around, turned back. And it says because they forgot what God had done in our lives. They've forgot the strength of God. They forgot the goodness of God. And man, remember me, wow, that, that just jumped right there when you mentioned that. You've been walking through a whole series of devotionals. And people can find this where they find is at marksheroner.com or, yeah, they can, I mean, every Friday on Instagram, or on Twitter that we posted, I do, I do a weekly reading from the revised common election area. You know, I like the election area for many reasons. Our church has followed the election area from the days we were in Raleigh. It's so you, the election area, if you follow the three year election area over the course of every 365 days, within three years, you read the entire Bible. Right. And the way the election area is laid out, all four readings, dovetail in some way. So the mystery is learning how to figure out how the, the, the, the fathers of the church and the mothers of the church saw all these as connecting the dots. And so sometimes it's like, you got to be like, like, Colombo, you got to figure out how do these verses relate? But it's, so I usually take one of the four and I just do a little 10 to 12 minute missive on it. Yeah, because we're in year B. Is that right? It's year B. And so, and this is something a lot of us, for me, growing up in a Pentecostal Protestant background, I never celebrated, lent, uh, advent in that sense, the, the historical right, things of the church. And in my son, Brandon, who passed her C3 church, who you know, passed her C3 church here and for worth jumped in on it this year, uh, with advent and now with lent. And you know, it has really been remarkable. And then I've been listening to you and then also to learn sweet. And just the, the beauty of everything. And really, this comes back to this thing where good Friday actually is good. Yeah. The one that, when the pre high priest would come out and he would, he would, uh, slay the lamb, the sacrificial lamb in the day of atonement, which would good Friday is, day of atonement in a Jewish counter. And the high priest would come out in mid-afternoon at the same time Jesus said it was finished. He would come out and say to tell a style. Sacrifice has been completed. And people would shout like joyfully. We remember, we remember what Christ did for us. In particular, it's a very, uh, heavier weighty thing, which is honorable because honor means to give weight to something. But there also has to be this, this other side, uh, mark where we're joy filled. Absolutely. Right? Yeah. Mission is completed. Speak to me about that and about how lent points is towards that. Okay. So in, in the 40 days of lent, the church historically went on a journey of humility, self reflection, repentance. But the 40 days was reminiscent of Jesus 40 days of being tempted in the wilderness, a reminiscent of the 40 years of the sons of Israel being humbled and tested to show them what was in their hearts. 40 always signifying the testing of man. Yeah, testing transition. This, this, this, this space that we enter where we discover parts of ourselves that need to be brought to light, that we've got to own parts of ourselves that we tend to ignore. And the, the, the culmination of Lenton Holy Week is, is, is, is what happens on Good Friday when Jesus at the cross begins with the first verse of Psalm 22. You know, it's interesting. Psalm 22 is a Psalm of the exiles. David, prophetically, is certainly speaking of Messiah. But David also as a prophet is speaking before that of the exile in Babylon. Psalm 22 was one of the most recited songs in Israel's history in Second Temple Judaism. Because even though they came out of Babylon, they came out under the oversight of the Meadow Persian Empire. So they still weren't free. So essentially, even though they're in their homeland, they're still not home because they're governed by the Meadow Persians. Then the Meadow Persians are conquered by Alexander the Great. So now they're still not in their homeland free because the Greeks now rule it over the Jews. And then they're conquered by Julius Caesar. And so Roman rule now is quite oppressive. And they're still not free. So they're still crying, my God, my God, why have you for second me? So Jesus assumes the story of Israel and brings it to speech in a way where it can be heard before the Father. So they feel like they're not heard. When we say why, we feel like nobody's listening. But when Jesus assumes our humanity and he says why to the Father, it is heard with reverberating echoes to the point where the rocks split, the earth shakes, the veil is rent because he is the veil that is the separating point between the visible and when he is opened up, access to the Father because Christ is a place in the Father all by himself. He's the new temple. And we now, so when you say our Father, I was thinking for the late Robert W. Adjensen, the great Lutheran theologian, changed my life when I heard him say in a lecture. He said, our is Jesus saying to us piggyback on me as I come into the Father's presence. So all of us piggyback on Jesus. So the first hour is Jesus saying you pray with me because I'm the chief intercessor and high priest. So when you say our, I'm giving you my spirit so that you as an adopted son and daughter can say my Father, but you're saying with me our Father. So the first hour is us picking back on Jesus and then it's all of us together piggyback. He's got a big back and we can all fit on it. And so when we say our Father, we're piggybacking on him. So let me, let me clarify this. So I'm 22 begins with a scripture. It says Eli, Eli, something. Okay, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And I was taught growing up, Mark, that this was God turning his back on God. That's impossible. Yeah, exactly. What dad would I? So now if I'm going to pray our Father and this is the dad that in the moment of crisis, turn his back on his son, how are we going to trust him in my moment of crisis? Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a fundamental misreading of what forsaken this is. I think it's Jesus entering into our forsaken this and giving us a voice where we haven't had one. He takes on himself and collective humanity. He takes on our why. You know, a what question is usually pretty easy to answer. How question is usually easy to answer? A when question and a where question. Usually are a pretty easy answer, even if they're complicated, you'll get to an answer. But why is usually a question that Ray is raised when something intolerable, something that defies our ability to find well-being, something that is very unaffirming. You hear someone say why, and they don't feel affirmed. And here's Jesus taking on the spirit, the demonic spirit that denies us and doesn't give us an affirmation and denies affirmation. Jesus takes on that why for us that's forsakenness of the original sin. And Father hears it and says, I hear that I've come down. You know, when God says I've come down Moses, I've come down. You go. The ultimate coming down is when God takes on human flesh and he comes and says, I'll take for why so that when I get to the end of Psalm 22, I can say it's done because the end of Psalm 22 is it is finished, but he's done it. Yeah, so he starts a song. I also look at it in his humanity with his mom there and other friends. And he he starts a song of promise in order to remind them, here's what's happening because they would all know how to sing that. So really what he did, he started a song. Yeah, and goodness that now here's here's the deal. You just hit me with this. This is so good. He took our why in order for us to know our why. Exactly. Yeah, we took our why in order for us to find our purpose. Colossians 117, everything held together by him. Galatians in him, I find my identity. Absolutely. We come back to the definition. And I know I may get in trouble for this too, but I'm in you know, Paul, I know you know, I not only do I have a degree in theology, I've got a degree in psychology. Right. When I studied psychology, I went to the seat of secular humanistic potential. I went to the the university where it all started. I went to Sabreque, where Rahl O'May, Carl Rogers, and Abraham Maslow were honored because they were the fathers of the third force movement, the secular human potential movement. And I studied the tenets of human the human potential movements from a secular perspective. And as I wrestled with all those things, intentionally to feel to say, how do I understand that worldview? But then how do I understand their postulates in light of the gospel? The one voice that has any right to speak to human potential in the universe is the one who on the hill where he delivered the sermon on the mountain says to those that are distressed and downcast like sheep without a shepherd, he knows their sinners, he knows they're broken, he knows they're fragmented, he knows they have rebelled against dog. He says, you are the light of the world. If anybody has the right to speak to human potential, it is Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, who when Paul says, I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. If I really unpack that, the cross is not the mortification of my personality. It is the death of ego-centricity, but it is not the mortification of who I am essentially. It is the liberation of my Trudor God so I can be actualized in the potential of who Mark Shirona is called to be. The cross doesn't diminish me, the cross enlarges me, it is accomplished. So taking up my cross daily is not a beatdown, it's lifting up. Absolutely. Well the cross is always the lifting up, sure, and the Christ is the throne of God. The old picture, he is the snake. It was lifted up and it is the picture of a modern medicine, it is the symbol of God. I remember Robert Cook, the now deceased Robert A. Cook, the president of King's College, he would say there is life for a look, and it was always about the serpent on the cross. Keep looking up, keep looking up, he would say, and it was always on the certain other cross. Here is the deal. Talking with you, Mark, and you and I have sat over dinners and meals together and you never actually land it, we just decide we are done. There is so much, and so I want to do that though for us. The mission of Jesus carried forward in us. If we are the light of the world, tell me, speaking to that, for me as a man, or for us that are listening to this right now, my mission going forward out of this amazing, full crumpoint of history. What is my life identity? What is my going forward in Christ? How do I work that out? Okay, so the Father sends the Son and then immediately sends the Spirit to endure us so that we can carry on, we are the ongoing incarnation of Christ. Len will say Christ isn't supposed to be imitated, he's supposed to be personated, that he comes in our personhood so that we can give ourselves to others and empty our lives into others. And I think for men, Paul, I think we need to remember that there's a lot of areas in our lives where we tend to be afraid to be real. And what has benefited me most in my relationship with my brothers in Christ is when we've come to the place where we're willing in our pouring out to talk about our humaneness. Let me just tell this story. You remember better than I do, the prophetic word I gave you when we first met you, when I first met in Calibur. You remember that with detail. I honestly don't remember the details. Here's what I remember a few weeks later, I'm back in Dallas, I'm at the Embassy Suites and you show up in my room. And when I tell you, you're the first friend that I made that ever, the first thing you wanted to do when you got into my room as we sat together in that living room in the suite. He said, Mark, I want to pray for you. I mean, I remember that is indelibly etched in my heart because at that point, God really admitted you to me in a way I said, my God, he's praying for me. He's praying for me. And as a man, we don't tend to think we need prayer. We don't ask for prayer. We don't want anybody who think we've got any problems. And so in a very disarming way, as a man, you are praying for your brother. And that has left, when I tell you, Paul Cole has left an indelible impression on Mark Sherona that will take him all the way to eternity. I'm not getting that memory changed the way I viewed my manhood in terms of because I, I've honest, I've prayed for people as a pastor, but never have I really offered to pray for one of my brothers in a, it was just, it was a defining moment for me. Yeah, it was, yeah, it was a great moment. See, the thing is the prophetic word you had for me, I actually took, and some people will remember cassettes, but I took that, had that duplicated on a cassette for all my children and my entire family. We all listened to that because at that time in our lives, that word was a, a ramal word. It was a word of, you don't even remember the details. I've reminded you of the details and we've talked about them, but, but it was, because it was a God thing, it was a God moment. And that's, I believe, how we're supposed to be going forward as men. I don't believe that every single moment we're going to know that this was a God connect. Right. You know, I'm talking to a waitress set up at a restaurant. I'm meeting a guy, you know, next door, talking to somebody in a park when we're walking, you know, our dogs, whatever the case may be. And it's not always, it's going to be, oh, man, that was a moment, but I believe that we carry a light so strong that every moment we do have that interacts with anybody else that God speaks to those people through our lives. Yeah. I believe we're, we're, you know, fully human, Jesus, but I also believe we're filled with His divinity. Oh, yeah. I'm an amazing, mysterious way. Yeah. And even in our worst days, you know, it's amazing, isn't it? Even in our darkest moments, we can have a word for somebody else that says, absolutely, that's life for them. So, and He loves us on our worst day. He does. He does. He's consistent. And that's, that's, that's comforting. I think, man, I think for us as men, we can really get down on ourselves. We talk about the whole Easter experience. We come out of there and we go, okay, great, fantastic, but I'm not that guy or I can't really walk that out. I can't really be that good. He doesn't expect us to be that good. He just wants us to live in the fullness. You said it before of who I am to become fully me. And that, uh, right there with defined success. Because those worlds looking for success, we talk about success, but success is to become fully. I put it in the book bartender. I put it this way. Success is to fully satisfy my personal design. Yeah, you come. Just think about, I mean, the whole book is about, you know, neomized, I mean, you start with neomized journey in that book. Just the boldness that it took for him to go into the king's court with a, with a, with a, a sullen face. I mean, he could have had his head chopped off, but he had the courage to say, all's not well in the kingdom until this part of my life gets sorted out because it's part of my history. And I want to be able to see this change for the lives of some men. Man, the man needed a miracle, but he knew a king. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so do we. And that's us. Yeah, it is us. At you and me and that's us. And that's our friends. And, uh, we need his life and his intervention flowing through us. And we are not able to get things done in ourselves, but we know a king. And, uh, so, um, Lord bless you on, on this time, I'll mark you and your beautiful wife Ruth and your, uh, and you've got, uh, if people do go to Instagram, what is it? Is it Mark Toronto duck, Mark Toronto at Mark Toronto at Mark Toronto, M.A.R.K. CHI. Two ends. Uh, I have Mark Toronto, the dot com. And then, uh, on the Instagram and on your Instagram, every so often, a few times a week maybe or shots of your grandkids. So, yeah, I can't help it. Which is, which is part of living to this stage of life. Oh, gosh. Yes. I mean, they just, they're my joy. Yeah. You're awesome. And then I follow your son, Mr. Drums too. So, yeah. He's got his stuff on there. Anyway, blessings you and your family. And we pray, everything your hands touch, Dr. Toronto will be blessed and that God will keep you deep within the grip of his grace and love and Jesus. And Paul, for you, I, again, you and and Julie, Julie, Judy and, and the family, I pray that you have a blessed Easter. I also want to thank you for what you've done with your dad's legacy. Yeah. That, um, you're going to go around and buy a great cloud of witnesses. So I know there's, uh, there's a major intercessor that's tag teaming with Jesus for you. And the fruit of it is, I probably, he just stands amazed at how far reaching. I hope it's taken this thing. I guarantee it. Here's what it is. It's a great cloud of witnesses. And here's the hat. It's a great group of brothers. Yeah. It's brotherhood, man. That's the story of the whole thing. Bless you, brother. Thank you for being with us in my Facebook live. And we're going to put this on the Brave Men podcast. And for everyone who doesn't know, C-M-N-DOT men, C-M-N-DOT men, there's a person that achieved lab in which Dr. Sharon has spoken a number of our conferences. And some brilliant exposition of the gospel is on there on those videos. And so, thank you, Mark, for everything you mean for us, as a ministry and for me personally. I love you. Love you, Jimmy. Talk to you soon.