BraveMen S4E129: Sam Rohrer - Truth in Politics & Pulpit

Hi, this is Paul Cole and this is Brave Men. Let me read you something. It says this, our courts oppose the righteous, justice is nowhere to be found. Truth stumbles in the streets and honesty has been outlawed. Yes, truth is gone and anyone who renounces evil is attacked. What does that sound like? It kind of sounds like today, doesn't it? And yet where it's speaking of is from Isaiah chapter 59, it actually speaks of what was happening back, I mean thousands of years ago. So what we're seeing in the world today is not new. It's the same spirit of the enemy that's been happening for decades and centuries. So it says this, a Lord looked and was displeased to find there was no justice. He was amazed as he had no one intervened to help the oppressed. So he himself stepped in to save them with his strong learn and his justice sustained them. So now that's talking about Jesus, talking about spending descending Christ in order to bring freedom to people who were being oppressed to bring truth. And that's where our guest today talks about Sam Roer, truth and politics and pulpit. I want to remind you that to mentor men and disciple men changes everything and you can find the tools to do that. Krishmin's network, cmn.men, cmn.men. And if you go on YouTube, type in Monday Night Men, three words Monday Night Men, you'll find the things that we've done on Monday nights. We've gone through a number of the books and we start again in the fall of 2022 with the book Daring. And but you've got just a bartender, which is on identity, strong men and tough times, real man, number of different books. These are half hour teachings that will inspire you incarnate Christ in your life. Man, I'm fired up about what's happening. Really, you know, we talk about the things that are going on in the world, but I also believe that in the book of Acts where it says that the power of God says in the last days, I'll pour out my spirit. The power of God is alive and strong in the face of the earth. And we see it everywhere. I know it's not always in the, in the media, but it is in the streets, man. It is happening. Talk to a pastor yesterday in Pennsylvania. He said, man, there is some stuff going on here. It's fantastic among our men. And that's the key. If we, if we raise up strong men, we raise up strong families. Strong families make strong churches, strong churches change the culture. So Sam Roer, truth and politics is the founder of the American pastors network standing in the gap and his, his mission is justice, truth. What that means, we'll talk to him about it today on Brave Men. You're going to enjoy this and you'll be inspired by it. And I pray you'll move to a place of action. Thanks for being with me today on Brave Men. It's Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole, wisdom and courage for the journey. Hey, I'm with Sam Roer, who's the head of the American pastors network right now on Brave Men. And speaking of Brave Men, Sam, you've been in the political world, the business world in a really difficult business. You've been in politics. You've run for governor. I look at all the things you've done in your bio and I would just have to say you are a justice activist. I can't think of a better way to capitalize it for everyone right now. But thank you for what you do. Tell me about the American pastors network. What's the thrust of this? It's only six or seven years old. And it's gaining a lot of momentum. Well, thank you. Thank you, Paul. Yeah, the American pastors network is something if they if a mission and a focus that God has led me and some other pastors to put together with a focus on the pulpit. You know, when I was in office, I got to see what it was like to be a minister of God in that calling room is 13 for almost 20 years. God called me to preach Paul when I was in office, though. So that's a minister of God in government and and between those two and as a minister in my own home as a godly father. All of those are ministers are servants of God different jurisdictions and positions, but really the same obligation. And that is to carry out and to magnify what God's truth is. So in that capacity being in office, I got to see how truth was being attacked, undermined. What it was like to carry out biblical truth and to put it into law and shape it and to make it like it ought to be, but also saw the conflict and what was happening in our country as year by year. So the level of biblical world of you and biblical obedience in our nation once dedicated to God, this continued to go down the hill. So when I got out of office in 2010, after that venue about part of my life, I said, Lord, our nation's in trouble. Yeah. Um, where do you want me to spend my time in the last third of my life or until the price return comes, how long where and out of that Paul came the idea and the concept that well from God's perspective as I view scripture. That that the communication of truth in this age, the church age, primarily not exclusively by any means, but primarily as late on the backs of the pulpits because it's the pulp that is commanded to preach the word. The preaching of the word, the foolishness of the preaching of the word that brings people to salvation and along which then can heal lives. So I said, if if there was a focus of time in our need in this culture, where on one area, if there was a greater emphasis, according to your plan as you've laid out for society, from time to your return. What would that be? Well, it was a pulpit and and we know fathers have to carry it out and teach it in their home. Right. We know that those in office, if they understand the role, have to carry it out, but it's the pulpit that should be driving in the truth of saying, this is what God says and speaking truth to power and speaking truth into the home. Anyways, it was out of that thrust pole that the words, you know, said, is the pulpit. Well, I said, how are you taking you put put this together in a way that means something and anyways out of that came the American pastor's network with our mission to identify, identify, equip and encourage the pulpits to preach the whole council of God. And then from that, then it's coming number of things. That's a long answer to your short question. Well, you know, it's, uh, Sam, you were in politics and in the pulpit and in what happens to us who are in those worlds is you ask us the time of day, we give you the history of the watch. So, uh, but the American pastors network, let me just say American pastors network dot net, just the way it sounds American pastors network dot net, standing in the gap for truth is the cut line. And let me give a little framing here on this because, you know, we're with you, man, brave men, uh, Christmas network, the global fatherhood initiatives. We're with you. Now we've got listeners in 64 different nations. And so I think in every part of the world, we see the same thing. Now in the country you and I live in, which is in the United States, it was George Washington that said this. He wrote it in his diary, he said, were it not for the preaching of Francis Asbury, we would not be a nation. Francis Asbury, the circuit writers, the great Methodist that came out of Wesley. And they, they were the original circuit writers and preachers and ministers under his ministry 250,000 people came to Christ. And at that point, that was 40% of the country in that sense. And Washington said, were it not for that we wouldn't be a country Alexander Hamilton said it's the pulpits that will speak truth and guide the nation. If you will, what you're doing is bringing back the focus to the pulpit, but, but Sam, it seems to me that we've built a church that's not comfortable being in a culture that's at war with it. In other words, we've tried to be nice guys. And frankly, it hasn't gotten us anywhere. Well, you know what I think you're harkening back to Washington, I go back that way too. And actually one of the original bylines of the American pastors network was in the footsteps of the founders. Wow. And it was for this reason that in our nation again, many watching this are, are United States citizens. This nation is no accident. Yeah. It was founded on biblical principles from the day the pilgrims landed and gave us the, the Mayflower compact that started with it to the glory of God, Amen. Yeah, the advancement of the Christian faith to, to the establishment, just a few years later by the Puritans of Harvard University, which was there to teach preachers. Harvard started and, and, and to equip them with the virtuous education of the youth as William Penn said in Pennsylvania, where I'm from, that laid down a foundation for government that our founders Jefferson and Franklin referred to as an example as the father of the founders. And why did they do that? Because he said that here's an opportunity for in this new world for a new country. And what we want and what we need is religious freedom, but it can't happen in a vacuum. And so he laid down his premise for, for foundation of government, which started with the words of understanding the nature and the role of God. And second, understand the nature and the role of man, understand the nature of sin. And all of that came out of it and he's the one who said, the world is waiting for an example to be lifted up to the nations of a holy and he called it a holy experiment. Those words wrap the rotunda of the capital in Pennsylvania that every day I walked into that building, I would, or I took people on tours of that building, I would point out those words, a holy experiment. Because you can't have freedom without without the word of God in experiment because nobody had ever been willing to try biblical principles and put it together. So that's where it started Paul and over time, the enemies of truth have attempted to eviscerate that to separate us from our history, to separate us from God, to separate us from what God has done. And that, when that happens, then God brings judgment on the nation. So, yeah. Anyways, all those things can wrap together. You know, and that's William Penn who said that. Was that that quote from William Penn? Yes, yes. Okay, or to make sure I had that as we take notes because I always encourage our listeners and viewers to take notes. You have stand in the gap radio and stand in the gap TV. I mean, this thing's really taken off. Let me frame it a little further, narrow it down. You're a father and grandfather. And, but you were in the Pennsylvania state legislature for years and years and you dealt in particular with educational issues. That was part of your thrust. Is that right? I spent a lot of time in education. A lot of time because that forms, you know, the culture of who we are. And so, you know, this, this whole thing, you know, I look at this Sam. And my concern is that we've basically lost the definition of what truth is. You know, and maybe Bill Clinton said it best. He said when he said, well, you have to, it depends on what the word is means. It's like, you know, all the parsing of words and it's like we've lost the definition and the center of truth. And how do we, how do we get that back in a sense without being shrill about it? Sam, you know what I'm saying in other words, without pounding my neighbor's door. Well, I'll tell you how. I mean, let's face it. We know by recent surveys, George Barne, I do a lot of work with George Barne. Recent survey, he just did the largest, the largest, largest world view survey of Americans that he's done in about 20 years. It's down to about 4% of those who say their Christians actually manifest a true biblical worldview. Now, that is where we've got a problem, Paul, because at the beginning time of our nation's history, even those who were deists and didn't believe in salvation, necessarily by faith in Christ alone, they had a fear of God. They had an understanding of moral proof and natural law that was laid down. And so they came at life and living and law and justice, all of which are important for living and life and living. They came at it from a common view of God as creator, law giver and judge. And that's why in the declaration, they said, we are endowed by our creator and then rights come from God, not government. And they appealed in that document to the great judge of the universe to hear the rectitude of the cause. We don't have that. We have a world view that dominates in America now that does not have God in the center, the God of the Bible. It has the God of government. It has an atheistic view of life that we came out of the slime through evolution. And therefore, there's nothing sacred about our lives. Therefore, there is no need for God and just as just as yesterday, Governor Cuomo, Governor Cuomo of New York, in regard to this whole Corona virus issue, made the arrogant statement of saying that God had nothing to do with slowing down the spread of the virus. It was our efforts, he said. Now, reason for me saying that is that, that's a, that's a, that's a, a, a non-mistakeable world view that doesn't have God in the picture. There are a lot of people praying that God would slow down the virus, right? And we can go a number of places on that, but, but the point of it is, we have a dominant world view, postmodern world view, an atheistic world view, embraced by Marxist, by humanists, by socialist, who have no need for God, they think. The Islamic world view that has a counterfeit view of God and what they look in those world views are now the dominant world views in this nation. And that's the only way for a recalibrating of how we interpret freedom, liberty, the home, the role of government, duty, responsibility, any of those things. The only way you can recalibrate those to the way it used to be in this country is to recalibrate what we define by truth. And you cannot, you cannot define truth outside the word of God. Here again, Pennsylvania House in the, in the house chamber that I sat for so many times, and I would look up on the ceiling, if there's, there was a plaque, a gold plaque, still there on our ceiling that says this. And you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. That's the only thing that's visible to the entire house in the speaker of the house in the general assembly in Pennsylvania. And it's a verse right out in the book of John. And you shall know the truth. Well, of course, we know who the truth is. Jesus says, I am the way, the truth and the life. Well, that's where we go, Paul, and at one point in our nation's history, truth was by a large majority understood to be absolute. To come from God, God was a giver, and God was the judge. And from that, then you can put into place a system of justice. You can have justice, nor can you have a department of justice in this nation, unless there was an agreement on the truth. Yeah, there's a standout. Anyway, so that's where we go back. Yeah, we get back to it. Well, again, back, you're back to the pulpit and you're back to people, you're back to fathers and mothers in their home or saying. It's teaching my children on what basis is what's going to be my standard, what they use, what comes out of their own head, Paul. Trouble, if they use what comes out of God's word. You know, you, you worked on education. I've just got a couple of comments. You know, you talk about us being postmodern, which I fully agree with. I think most commentators will also say we're post Christian. I actually don't ascribe to that. I don't know that we've ever been speaking of America where I live, where you and I live, you're in Pennsylvania, I'm in Texas. I don't know that that we've ever been a Christian nation. You talked about the deists and you talked about an ascribing to a center point of truth in the creator. I think we can go back to Luther who kind of put a lot of that into motion in terms of faith in Christ. And there was different views of that, but there was always a centering and there's a there's a standard truth. Now our educational system to me begin to break apart when we begin to really tie into the theory of evolution. And here's why because here's Darwin's paper, the full title of Darwin's paper on evolution was on the origin of species by means of natural selection. That's what most students would read. The origin of species by means of natural selection, but the full title was or the preservation of favored races in the struggle for life. Darwin basically in his center point believed there was a certain group of people. And for him, it was Anglo Saxon people who were destined to be in charge of everybody else. And that spirit of elitism to me, Sam has continued as a thread out of that education from that we're able to then justify abortion, the killing of babies, the killing of children. And you know, we think about the pagan things of Mexico or central or South America where those they would sacrifice babies to the God of whatever thing they were mollock or whatever. And you know, we think of that and we think how pagan is that, but then we kill babies now. So to me, what you're talking about is coming back to truth. So I think we're postmodern pre-Christian. That's where I'm at. I think the greatest churches haven't yet been built. I think the greatest sermons haven't yet been spoken. I think some of the most amazing pastors are growing up right now in their 20s in America today and in Germany and in Thailand and in Indonesia and around the world. I have this amazing Romans 1513 fountain of hope in me, Sam, for the future of what's happening. How do you tell me about the American church right now because the numbers aren't good, but it feels like the energy's right. Tell me where we're at on that because you're a study of this much more so than I. Well, I agree with you on what you're saying on that. I think from my perspective, my observation, Paul. You cannot refute the numbers about the state of the church in America. Yeah. So the numbers of the numbers 70, 70, 72% of Americans believe that they say they are Christians, but we know that that's not true. Obviously, because there would be a different place. So when you boil it all down, when you tweak it all down and you ask certain questions, do you believe that Jesus Christ lived a totally sinless earthly light as an example. Those that say they've had a relationship with Christ, only about 50% of those believe that Jesus Christ had a totally totally sinless life. 55% under Barna surveys would indicate that they do not believe that the Holy Spirit or Satan are real. There's no illustrations of two big powers of evil and good. So when you boil all down, you say, well, a person, if you don't believe that Jesus Christ lived a totally sinless earthly life, that he had no power at the time of crucifixion. He just passed the pay for anybody since. So therefore he's not God. So if you're believing in somebody like that, you're not a real true believer. If you know are those down, the numbers Paul would indicate that probably around eight or nine percent of all Americans would be true believers. Now, I believe based on those numbers, which are irrefutable. That in that number, I think the scripture calls those true believers, the remnant, the remnant to our history and Old Testament times have always been about 10%. That's what Isaiah uses at 10% number. That's probably what would be that remnant. I believe is being quickened. Yeah, I believe that that remnant. Yeah, they were to look at what's happening in this nation and happening around the world. So whether I communicate with believers in Africa or here from them in India or wherever they may be, believers who are a part of God's family are listening to the same voice of truth. That's the whole spirit. And they are perceiving their perceiving things as they are. We perceive the advancement of evil. We perceive the increasing persecution of the church. We perceive these things and we see them. And I think within that body, Paul, there is an awakening, strengthening. That's God's plan. And into that, even this virus that's going around now, Paul, it's positive implications, disturbing our lives and making changes that are beyond what I believe anybody can sit or imagine right now. For those who know the truth and have the hope of eternal life within them. And I like you who know that if we are here, we're here by God's choosing at this time and we're here on a mission. We're ambassadors of a heavenly kingdom. This is not my home, Paul. I have a lot of friends here, but I got more friends in heaven and I got a family that's in heaven. I'm looking forward to that. And I look at these events that are going on and I am saying when I see a hopeless and confused world. Wow. What an opportunity to say to them, I don't have those same words. I mean, am I concerned about what's happening to my freedom. Yes. And it's being impinged upon. And I think more greatly we're going to see that. But at the same time, it also tells me that the return of Christ and God's ultimate plan of redemption is being furthered in is moving at an increasing speed. And with that, I say, Amen. Amen. The truth has never been more important. And there are a lot of listening ears out there right now, Paul. And that's where I think we need to be motivated as God's people, as fathers, as mothers, as grand fathers, or whatever God's put us in a position to be bold about the truth. Come on. Is the time more than ever. Yeah, people need hope. And I think, you know, here's the thing I look at and you've seen this across the nations fascinating to me. We can't in normal, let's say normal times. We can't get zoning for our church buildings. But when a disaster comes, the first place everybody goes is, man, we get we need the churches. And what's amazing to me and it's not surprising, but it is amazing to me is how the churches have stepped up. I got one friend in Memphis and I just saw a stat. He served 500,000 meals out of his church in the last month. Just that's what is one church in Memphis 500,000 meals, not to mention what Matthew Barnett's doing out west and which every every single community in the United States has churches that are helping a poor helping those at risk, helping people find jobs, getting them new skill sets. You name it. And the church is the church is the hand of Christ. So when we see the church do that, that's who Jesus is. And when people begin to understand, oh, so that's what you guys are about. It's not about rules and regulations. And you got to stop smoking or you got you can't go to a dance or whatever the thing is that people think the rules are what it's really about. It's about the touch of love and grace and hope. And you know that whole thing. I talked to John Elder J other day and he had a very dear friend pass away three three and a half years ago. We were talking about that. I said, how do you handle grief because right now what a lot of people are dealing with is the loss of a job, the loss of the way things where there's a grief component. Psychologists tell me that I've been talking to. There's a grief component and everything we're doing. And John, I said, John, how do you handle that grief and he's a psychologist wrote wild at heart. And he said, you know, here's what the Lord showed me one day. And he said, it's just, he said, he said, the grief was so deep for my friend. And he's lost a friend 30 years ago, very close, you know, hiking accident, which is when he then wrote wild at heart or 25 years ago. And then we lost his close friend. He said, he had a different view of it. And the Lord said, what if your friend has just gone on a missions trip to another part of the world. He's going to be a desperate, dangerous place. And he can't communicate with you. But do you do know he's there and you'll, you know that eventually you guys will see each other. What if it's that? And John said, right then he went, wow, that space between here and there between life here on earth. And you said, you know, Philippian citizens of heaven. So that he said, all of a sudden he realized it was very thin and all of a sudden I had this piece of, yeah, he's in a different place and then we'll see each other. There's such a hope there in the middle of some really desperate times. But it feels like the pulp, it's really been, I mean, we've got had people get tickets for getting up and preaching in this misguided coronavirus political thing. What are you telling the pastors American pastors network? What are we saying to into those situations across particularly here in the United States. But again, around the world, these things are happening. What are you saying to them Sam? Well, a number of things, one, go to God's word for how to respond. We have a culture that has never faced an eating from government that says you can't physically worship. And I will tell you, it cannot, it cannot continue long. We have a restriction on physical worship, but I also tell pastors think in terms of this, the church, we have, I think, for a generation or so. Perhaps we tend to view the church as that building. Wow. In which we gather. Yeah. And I say that because when we look at those measurement mechanisms, again, back to Barnaservais, we're talking a lot about George with this. But you get what you measure. Well, how we measured success in the church by and large or a generation. Well, it's how many parking places are in that parking lot. Wow. It's how many programs we are running. Wow. It's how many inches we have on each pew. We're measuring, we're measuring things that are really not the church. We've gotten distracted to the wrong metrics. That's exactly correct. So if you measure those things, you're going to get more programs, you're going to get more effort. But you're not going to get more of what the great commissions all about. And that's to make disciples. So, so, so as we have a generation where we have two to three, four percent of people have a biblical world of you, even coming out of the churches that have the big parking lots in the walls, I can tell you we have been measuring the wrong thing. By the other hand, we've been getting exactly what are just we've been measuring. Wow. Pastors. The church is not defined by the wall. So in these times where we can't physically meet, there ought to be some creativity and some reframing and adjusting of our mind from the standpoint of who is the church. How do we, how do we pray for those we can't see we can't we maybe can see now by cousin zoom, but maybe we can't touch. Well, that's been a helpful thing. I think for those who have embarked upon it, but I would caution within this Paul that in the midst of this that we don't get so consumed about the creativity of the mechanism of zoom or video conferencing. And we don't do the business of really preaching the gospel. The gospel. Come on. Any more than we did before when we could meet. Come on. I think it's a tendency. Yeah, I have seen a number of things that if you will, were attractive. And when you get to the end of it, you know, while I was entertaining, and I think there's a place for that, I totally believe there's a place for that. And I think Christians ought to be in every part of culture. We ought to be on the front edge of making movies. Building TV media, whatever the thing is, being politics, we've got in school boards, the whole thing. But I also think that what I loved about Easter this year was how many pastors. I went to five different churches online. And how many pastors stood up and spoke about the gospel in Jesus. And I think if we continue that, you know, people are looking for hope and they'll find it. And just to close and conclude our time together. And I thank you so much, Sam, and your busy schedule. If you're like me right now with everything is going on, I'm busy right now that I have been in a long time. Because it's this digital thing and writing articles and getting prepped for being on four times a day or whatever is been really intense. I believe the true measure of a church is not how many people are in the seats, but how many people, how many disciples are in the streets. And for me, that's what I hear. And I love this whole thing. I think you speak up for truth, American pastors, network, American pastors, network.net. And Sam, that's where we would find you, right? That's really the best place to go to find you. Your radio shows there, your TV, you've got allies, different people. We love the guys at Pure Flicks, all the other people that are allies with you in this. Barlow, who's involved, knew all the different guys involved in this and the pastors. Man, we just pray that every place you put your feet becomes holy ground. And everything you put your hands to will prosper. And that God will keep you and your family and your grandchildren deep within the favor of his love. And I thank you for taking the hits that it takes to do something like this, Sam. Sam Roer, American pastors, network. Thanks for being with us, brother. Paul, it's great to be with you and God bless you. And I pray that God does take this. And ministers hope and direction to countless thousands all across the world. That's a great thing about this digital mechanism. God can direct it to the hearts of people. Thousand miles away from us. And that, when that happens, the Lord is at work. And he's been doing that. So Paul, thank you for everything. And God bless you, Sam. Thank you very much. You just experienced Brave Man with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian men's network. Connect with Paul at cmn.man or write to him at Paul at cmn.man.