BraveMen S4E128: Jeff Zaugg - Take the Risk, Get It Done!

It's Brave Man with Paul Lewis Cole, wisdom and courage for the journey. Talking with Jeff Zogg with that awesome and great to see you. Actually great to be in person. This is the real deal. In person versus the screen that we've had so many. Cross the table. Yes. Talking about things. You're on the road with your children and wife in a van. The caravan. Yeah, but it's a big thing. Yeah. How big is it? So this is the class A 37 foot RV. 37 foot. I mean, it's bigger than a house. It's good side. Well, some houses maybe. But then we're towing. Towing the Ford Flax behind the three rows. We got room for all the car seats. Yep. And how old are your children? So my oldest daughter is eight. And then our youngest is nine months old. We got four daughters. Dude, really? Now, what are you? You started a ministry called Dad Awesome. I need all the help I can get to be. Yeah. Because like you got you interview all these guys and go, oh, yeah, let me write that down. Help me. Right? Yeah, really. So you started Dad Awesome as help me. That's it. That's it. So you didn't name it after yourself. No, not at all. It's it's helped me. And then also the hope is as I'm being helped that maybe some other dads. And if because I need I'm learning search of these four sons. Some day my four daughters are going to marry four boys. Yeah. So I am praying that maybe someday these boys would come a real family who had an awesome dad. Wow. And you had an awesome dad. Yeah, grateful. Yeah. Tell me about your dad. His name is Chuck. And he's been in heaven for two and a half years now. Yeah. And yeah, an amazing loving father who went after it had a vision. And he went after it as we were little kids. Got to see a dad who took some courageous steps. And took some risk. Absolutely. Yeah. Not much happens without risk. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, he was running in Rockford, Illinois, three or four crews, construction crews, building hundreds of houses. And he walked away from all of it to go buy some land in Northern Wisconsin. Really? Yeah. Wow. And you guys built what you lived on for years. You built a, what a camp. It's a resort. A resort built these large Swiss-style chalets. Yeah. And that's wild. He walked away from that, built that, managed that. You guys grew up here. Yeah, massive siblings. Massive change in pace from the, he called it the rat race of all these crews. And being away from family, we built the resort as a family, have three siblings. So the four of us, we worked hard together. It's funny. On the way home from school, we'd find out, we didn't have a cell phone, but he would like call the school and say he'd come to this job site. Because he couldn't lift the window in some of his homes that he'd build. Yeah. And he would build some houses off property than some of the cabins he built. Wow. For a risk. Yeah. Because I mean, then people had to come and, and rent these places in order for the whole thing to work. Yeah. Business wise, right? If you build it, they will come. Is that how that? Yeah. Well, if you build it, they don't always go up, which is, which is why there is no more seers. I don't know. Maybe there's seers is still out there. Well, he got the location, location, location. He got that right. Got that right. On the right lake in the right city in Northern Wisconsin. That's amazing. But do you find, because you're very involved in talking to men all over the nation, particularly in the United States? But do you find men are risk averse more so now than maybe a few years ago? Yeah. The climate of fatherhood, I think, when you have little kids and some of us, our wives work, some of us don't. But the, the, the risk of, well, if I make this decision and it goes poorly, look what's at risk. My comfort in this, this lifestyle over this home or this private school or this sports team fee. Like, there's enough things that if they're going right, you want to keep them going right. So I do think that many dads have a tendency towards playing at safe because look at all the tangible things that would be hurt if what I go after doesn't take at the pace or the timing that I think it's going to. So I think that's very common to say, let's just stick with what's going well and not change anything. Yeah. Do you think people regret that later on? I would say, I mean, based on, and I'm asking that, not on conjecture. I'm asking that based on, you've talked to thousands of men at different stages of life. Yeah. Yeah. Good clarification. So as I interview dads who are grandpa's, most of them would say they wish they would have taken more risks younger. And you go ahead. No, it's amazing. This is funny because we're looking at each other. So you can see me take a breath and you go, yeah, yeah. You know, as opposed to being on the phone or something, then you can't see all that. You know, it seems to me, and again, talking about being risk averse, that more men regret what they didn't do later in life than what they did do. Or what they attempted. I mean, I think of some pain. I had, what Judy and I had some really painful moments when I started some businesses that didn't go. All right. So, and then we had some fantastic moments when we started a couple that just blew up. Sure. You know, and did really well for us. So I figure if I did two out of five well, I mean, that's batten 400. That's solid. That put you like, yeah, solid. Yeah, put you like in the hall of fame. I think though, I mean, but, but we don't do that. What do you think? Well, when it comes to just like where am I putting my energy? Where am I putting effort? I think it's, it's so easy to say, well, I better save it all for this because what if I don't have like, I just, I see less of my friends saying, hey, I care deeply. So I'm going to take action out of that deep care passion. And I think it's just, it's just easier to feel exhausted. It's easier to feel like I'm bound by responsibilities. Yeah. And the rules run by exhausted men. It's true. It's true. And versus passionate men. And that's what I know. Exactly. Oh, you had a number two. You had a number two. You said two. Oh, man. Was that remember where I was racing after? Okay, I messed you up. So, well, what I was going after is I just think there's, there is, there's so many reasons for us not to pray deeply. What is that thing on my heart that I could be a difference maker for? And I think we're just not even asking the question because we think life is too full without going after it. And I think our kids pay the price of a dad or a man who chooses to play it safe. Because there's something about watching a dad fail watching a dad make a misstep watching a dad. Like you said, you're batting 400. Like if we're just choosing not to put ourselves out there. If we're choosing not to take that risk, our kids don't benefit from either side. Right. They benefit. They just have, I think our eyes glaze over. It's high if we do the same things over. Yeah. What do they call that insanity when you just do the same things? Expect a different result. Yeah, right. And I think we just kind of get stuck in this cycle versus men ask and pray, what is that thing that I could do to help make a difference in someone else's life? Wow. And even if that someone else is not our kids, it's actually someone in our church or our community or single mom. Like if we do that step, our kids can tell that their dad has something that's broken their heart that's changed him that he wants to give his all to help even if it's risky. Yeah. I think children know more about how we're living our lives and what's going on than we think they know. Yeah. It's the old line that my father wrote in Maximized Manhood. Children may not always listen to you, but they will always imitate you. Yes. So they see stuff, right? And they see that. And I think that one of the things that I've tried to do with my children and grandchildren is share with them not only, hey, here are some pluses. Here, you know, I would never do this again. I made a mistake. I need you to learn from my mistake. Don't be that guy. Yeah. And I think that's really important for us to live realistically, authentically in front of our children. So you guys took a big risk. Well, first of all, dad, awesome podcast. You've got the fathers for the fatherless bike rides across the country, which are fantastic, right? Amazing. And then, um, and then so now you were also on staff at a church and you left a staff position. You and your wife with children and pregnant. Were you pregnant at the time? So when we transitioned, it was before, yeah, I was just before we got pregnant. Yeah, I did. So, yeah, I mean, it is, it was a crazy time. Yeah. Yeah. So, so saying, staying safe would have been there because they loved you. The church, you did an incredible job. Children's ministry, the other things you were doing there at the church in Minneapolis. And yet, you knew time step away, take some risk. And then you amped it up a level. Yeah, there's been a recent. You got the class A. So that was 75 days ago now at the time of recording. And so we did, we hit the road for this RV tour, the dad awesome RV tour. And it's partially because of hosting any fathers for the fatherless bike ride. We had one more ride to host in Arizona. And then we said, let's, we've been invited to places like San Diego and Austin Dallas for the other cities to say we're interested in hosting one of these rides. So it's kind of about, it's a listening tour where we're meeting with, I mean, with people like yourself. So mentors along the way, but also meeting with groups of dads saying, hey, what are you learning? What are you feeling? What are you experiencing? What's what's going well? What's not? And that's been just a gift to sit in person around campfires in some cities, coffee shops and others. And to say, hey, what, what are those things? And so it is a very much a real tour that our family, we're living real life in a small quarters where we're moving up and moving every week to a new location. But also like seeing people in the eyes versus the screen has been such a gift. Well, and you're giving your children, I mean, in their young, right? I mean, you're oldest of how old? Eight. Eight. So there's, there's some stuff coming in by osmosis. Some stuff they'll kind of remember sort of, but they're going to remember that they had this amazing experience. It's going to stick with them. So by the time it's done, you'll have been on the road six months. Close to it. Five, five months plus we had another month of travel in September with the other bike rides. Right. It'll be a six month. Six month delay. Wow. That's great though. I mean, but here's the thing. A lot of people what they would hear right now is, oh, dude, I want to go do that. I want to do a hashtag van life. Sure. Right? Because I want to get away. Because we see these photos of guys standing on the edge of the green canyon over there somewhere else. So they're up in the mountains or they're on the ocean of animals. Dude, that would be awesome, man. And really what we're thinking quite often, Jeff, we're thinking, how do I get away? How do I stop the madness? How do I just dial it down? I think what you said a few moments ago was so good when you said, most men, it's easier to be exhausted. It's easier to say, you know what I can't do there right now. Yeah, sorry. I mean, I'm providing for you. You're eating because of me. So right now, I can't go do that with you. Right? It's easier to be exhausted. And I think that what you're doing is not hashtag van life. But if you will, hashtag personal health. Right? Because you're moving your marriage to a new level of trust at each other. I mean, you guys are in close quarters. You're parenting, you're learning some new things, you're like, oh, yeah. Every child's different, interesting. Right? New challenges for sure. So really what you're modeling for men is not, let's get away. But what do I do in an action step right now that could change the way my family grows up? Yeah, I haven't thought of it that way. But it really does. It's caused kind of a blank canvas for our family of how do we homeschool in this phase? How do we, what does a date night look like when we're in RV without babysitters around? Yeah. Like really in many aspects, it's a new step into what does this look like? And how does it change from city to city? Different, like it's, it has been different along the way. We've been praying for rhythms. And I feel like we're closer now than before. But it gave us an opportunity to not get away like vacation, but get away and have adventures mixed with work, mixed with homeschool. And that has actually been far harder than we expected. The travel, the pace of travel and the different responsibilities while in the road and the tighter quarters and the age of our girls, it has been much harder than expected, but also very, very fulfilling, very, very rewarding. And in some sense, we're, we look at each other just, I think it was just last night and we're like, how long will this, will we go through April or will it be shorter? Because there's, there is moments. There's for sure moments. Of course it is. But, but here's the thing. And it's one of the things you and I talked about before we even rolled the recording. And that is that your desire with that awesome and what you do, fathers for fatherless, the bike rides, all this stuff is to help men take action. Yes. And that's what so many of us don't do. You know, we have, we have ideas. Like hashtag Van Van Life sounds really cool. But how many guys have actually done that? Maybe a few hundred. I mean, really when you think about it, how many guys have actually taken off living in a tree house in order and I to host somewhere? You know, it's like, you know, eight guys. So the thing is, is that that's not easy to do. First of all, secondly, we have responsibilities. And that's part of maturity, accepting responsibility. But what your desire is, and it's what brave men, what we desire and brave men, is take what could you do today? What's an action step you could do today? Plan something out. You talk about adventures. You know, no matter where you live, there's an adventure within at least two or three hours drive. Yeah. I mean, you can find a lake, a river, something go camping. You can find a place to rent a side by side. If it's too expensive, work it out over a three month period and then go do that thing for four hours and provide that experience. Everybody get dirty going through the, you know, go through a river on a side by side or something. And those are things you have to plan out that happen on purpose. Parenting doesn't just happen. Yeah. And we actually had a blank poster board that we just paused on the, actually didn't pause. I was driving. So my wife was mostly facilitating the time at our eight year old wrote words of things we were thankful for just since Christmas. So this was just the last chapter of our trip. And we filled it with, I think there was 34 things that we were thankful for as a family. And it's a good example, though, of I think if you don't take the moment, and this is, you know, back that used to be, you take stones and mount those up, right? This is an alter to the look at what God has done. I think being in an RV and moving place to place has made it maybe easier to have moments of like, oh, look at God provided this and what about this and that wind storm that we were afraid of. Well, we got, we got through that. The writing of those things down, I think most families, and I want to be a family who does this more often. And it was all in my eight year olds handwriting, right? All over this poster board. I think doing that more often is a new rhythm we want to do to give the thanks because it's just so easy for all to wash together. All of our memories to wash together. And again, it doesn't happen. The adventure nudge that you just gave everyone listening. If we don't take a step and try something, we won't have much to write down on our poster board. There won't be much to write down in your, you know, when you pass away. What's that thing called? Tombstone. Yeah, tombstone. Yeah, whatever. Eulogy. Yeah. It's like, hey, it was a nice guy. You had a really cool truck. Yeah. Come on, man. You know, it's got to be, we had a very dear friend whose father passed away. And it was amazing as people shared some stories about the guy. Stuff I didn't know. You know, he had done some stuff for the CIA years ago. He had done some other things, some adventures of his like, dude, really. That's fantastic. I mean, those are the things that you want people to be able to say is this person, not just enjoyed life, but embraced life in Christ and walked with, you know, there's a phrase that's in the book, a road called Darien. It's guy named Jim Hunter. He was a downhill champion in Canada for a number of years before can read. This goes back a few years. And, but I remember asking Jim, how does he do this downhill? Because downhill is 80 miles an hour on an iced course. Now, you're a skier. Very little. But I mean, you know how hard snow is when you land on it. That's a little fluffy. And, you know, when you were on that, I mean, people died doing that. And I said to Jim, how do you do that? How do you throw yourself down a course of 75 miles an hour? He said, well, first of all, you gotta have purpose. Secondly, you gotta have training. And third, he said, when I leave the top and hit the starting gate, I ski with reckless abandon. Oh, that guy's the greatest phrase I ever heard. I mean, don't you want to live that way? Yes. I mean, in a sense, right? In that sense of reckless abandon. Not being an idiot. Because everything he does is measured. He knows exactly where he's going to turn. He's trained for it. He's got everything wired to work it all at the exact right way. But in order to make it happen at the ultimate reckless abandon. And I think that's where that whole thing of it's easier to be exhausted. What a great phrase, man. Well, in, by the way, it wasn't you, the obituaries. Yeah, yeah. I could not place it. So, so yeah, my obituaries someday, what people would say about it's, there's this all-in type, this like he, he jumped. Now again, calculated, calculated. But like, would I be someone who would be jumping into the next adventure with everything I have, with all my passion, all, versus the play it's safe? I'm going to make sure to tie off all these anchor ropes and make sure it's just perfect before I'm willing to go near the edge. I don't want to be like, I want spoken of me and I want my daughters to live. And this is partially what, what are they watching? What are our kids watching their dad? And if it's play it safe, play it safe, play it safe? And I think, I think they're going to grow up playing it safe just like that. And what adventures will they miss out on? What opportunities to see God show up? There's a, I wish I remember the reference for right now, but it's like basically, when you're at the end of your rope, this is the Eugene Peterson version of it, the message translation, like, that's where you get to see God in all of his strength. It's like, we actually have to be at the end of our rope. And we can't actually come through for our own in that moment. Yeah, yeah, you've put yourself in a place where it has to be a God thing. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's fantastic. I've got a cousin, Jack, who he was an architect. So we're not talking about, like I said, we're not talking about being irresponsible. When you talk about adventure, it's not always here. Hold my beer, watch this. Right. Which I think is a Minnesota thing anyway. Right? More Wisconsin. It's a Wisconsin thing. Okay. And, but Jack was an architect, been an architect for decades, and extremely good at it. Well done. But what he did for his sons in terms of adventure is he ended up buying some dirt bikes and then some side by side. And they would go out to the desert for years. And his sons look back at that as some of the golden years. Well, they all got hurt at different times. They all ended up in the hospital at different times. I'm not saying that's a good thing. I'm just saying the adventure of it. Yeah. There was risk involved. And he could have not done that. So we're not talking about him not having a career. He was an architect. Very good architect. Still is. You know, 45 years of that. And loves doing that. But he always created these moments. And for himself, he went hunting down in Argentina. Patagonia. He didn't fishing in a couple of different places. Now he's got one of his sons, Adam, who is a fishing guide and hunting guide in Paso Robles, California, and works for the city. So he works for the city. He's got a real job. So we're not talking about doing things that put your welfare of your family at risk. We're talking about doing things that take your life to an action stage. Yes. So it keeps you vibrant. It keeps your heart alive. There's an old phrase, Jeff, which is, most men die at 50. We just don't bury him till they're 70. You know, it's kind of like we just stop. And I would speak to guys and just tell them in your 30s and 40s, plan that stuff out. Because you're still going to be doing things. If you'll go do it now, you'll do it when you're 50 and 60. And don't look at that. Like it's that far away. Right. Because dude, like you're old now. I'm old. Yeah. Like 40. Turn in 40. Right around the corner. Yeah. I do think to that point, though, there's not a, like, I have zero desire to try less new things the next decade than I did the last decade. Right. And even some of my friends will joke about all this RV adventure, this tour you're on, like the little midlife crisis, right? You know, you're right out your home and skip a winter in Minnesota. Yeah, but you didn't pull a vet behind it. Yeah, exactly. You got the Ford Flex. The Ford Flex. The Ford Flex. Yeah. A little different. Yeah. Yeah. The posture, though, of am I leaning forward or am I leaning back? Is it? That's really good. Or keep coming back around to the same. But the other, in Romans, there's a, the message translation around living, adventurously expectant with a posture of saying, what's next Papa? Like it's like, no, this is not, this life we live is not a grave, tending life of play it's safe. It's a, it's like, you know, what's next Papa's phrase go? I think it's Romans 12. So the, yeah, that, that is the posture. It is reckless abandon with a, of course, we're being responsible. Of course, we're listening for the voice of God. Of course, we have brotherhood around us saying, because I would not have jumped in. I actually have some, some buddies who do financial accountability. It's, we show with our wives all of our budget from the previous year. And we've done this for over a decade. We know how much money we give away, how much we keep what my, my raise was or demotion was. They know what that, all these, these numbers are, we don't get, we don't jump into house projects without approval. We don't jump into buying RVs without approval from this group of friends. They, they, you, you have to have that side as well. That's brotherhood. Yes. Yeah, life, life in following Christ was not meant to be a one by yourself. It was meant to be lived in community, right? What's the most important thing you think is you raise your children, your daughter. And I get the old ones eight. What's the most important thing you've done for them as they grew up? And what did you learn from the eight-year-old to now what you're going to do a little differently maybe with your six-month-old? Yeah, the most important thing I think is, and it comes in two sides. So is identity piece. And it's that they know that they are daughters of God. And if it comes, when I say two sides, if I have a posture and a shine in my eyes, I am a son of God. And they notice not conditional to my circumstances. Right. They know. So maybe in a son of God, I'm going to pass on to them an ability to see an identity of what it looks like to be a daughter of God. And so, so how do you do that? How do you do that? So, that sounds cool. Well, this morning, this morning, we cut out the letters I am loved. My eight-year-old and I cut these letters out and glued them to a piece of paper. Did you really? So, we, we had... Like a craft. Yeah, we did a craft for six to seven a.m. Before any of the other daughters were awake, we did I am loved. And then we spent some time in actually, in first John, around this passage, around experiencing the love of the father. So, we, I think it's like a waterfalls way I tell her. Like, there's this waterfall that is always going, which is love from your Heavenly Father. Waterfalls. Our job today to let some of that water bounce off us and hit people around us. And those are your sisters. Is what I tell her. Those are your sisters. You want some of that love. And it just simply often though, I think that for me, I will, over time, put an umbrella up above me and I'm keeping some of the father's love from coming on me. And then less of that love gets down to my daughters. Wow. And so, that's where I just, I think it's the most important thing is that my identity as a son of God, experiencing his love and the confidence that it's not about the right business decision that I made. I don't get to earn more love in any way. Like, it's a waterfall of love. And to let that love bounce off me and hit my girls and hit my wife. And then seeing that love bounce off me and hit my wife. Like, I'm trying to as much as possible help her understand that she's loved by God. And it's unconditional. But you're doing that in practical ways. You cut something out. You do adventures. You go hiking. You spend time together. You teach them things about life. It's not just sitting there preaching to them. All right. Nine a.m. And it's as much one-on-one as possible. Which has been harder on this trip to have these one-on-one. Oh, yeah, it would be. So like, we went, I sat with my five-year-old and we just watched the sunset and we watched these birds. And like, she's just like sitting next to her and watching the birds and watching the sunset. Like, she felt that love from her earthly father. Which I think is just a much better chance that she's going to feel it from her heavenly father if she feels it from me. So it's as many one-on-ones as possible anchored in. It's all around identity. That is so good. So it has to be, you've really got to plan this out. I mean, some things happen. Extemporaneously. Sure. But there's so much of it that you have to say, okay, here's what I'm going to do. Here's this little exercise, this little thing, this little thing. And some of them are just common sense. Sure. Like, I don't think you need a book. It says, hey, you should take a walk with your kids. I don't think you need a book for that. And some of them that's as simple as, like, we will do a daddy-daughter date. Well, was it a daddy-daughter date? We just walked that rock in the corner of the street and back. Like, yeah, you're right. There's no book necessary. It can be that easy. But they, actually, sometimes I won't even realize them. I'm doing a daddy-daughter date. But they'll say that was my daddy-daughter date because we were one-on-one. And they heard some of that connection. So you're right, simple stuff. My daughter and I have some great memories of all my kids do. But we have some great memories where we would take the calendar. And I'd look at dates because I traveled a lot with our business and everything. And I would look at dates and say, OK, here's a date that you and I can go do something. What would you like to do? Is it dress up or not dress up or whatever? And I remember one time we went and she said, I want to dress up. So, OK. So we went to a place called, it's the Anatole Hotel. And up the top, she wanted to go up the top. So we went up the top, sat there overlooking the whole thing. Well, they assumed it must be some sort of special thing, like a birthday or something. So they brought a cake out, a candle. And we had the best laugh. I mean, I think she was maybe six or seven at the time. Now, another funny one was, I think Lindsey might have been about 11, maybe 10. And we're walking along in the mall. OK, just one of those mall dates. Somebody ate, fired something to wear. And I just said, I said, hey, Lindsey, you know, it's really cool. She said, what? And I said, well, I'm just, you know, it's cool being a dad. You're 10 now or 11, whatever it was. I said, you know, I always wanted to be that dad that was, you know, a cool dad. With, you know, her daughter. She looks at me. She goes, what? I go, you know, like a cool dad. She goes, dad, like, you can't be cool. I think at this point, maybe I was 37, 38 years old. Something like this. She goes, dad, cool. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think that's ever going to happen. I go, all right. Well, that's the way that went. Right? It was amazing. It was so funny. Yeah, I wanted to be cool that well. That doesn't happen. You're actually just a dad. Now, now, you've got the podcast talking with Jeff Zog, who has a dad awesome, an amazing ministry with a tremendous podcast, over 200 episodes. And so that's called dad awesome. Then you have the rides that you do, you know, to help with the fatherless. Yeah. So when you sit with different authors and people that are, that speak on youth and speak on, you know, being dads and all that kind of stuff. What's been a couple of the things that really you just went, wow, that was an awesome interview. That guy really rocked my world. I feel like pulling out principles of generational, like this is something to anchor back to their dad and then how they see it playing out. So even you asking me some questions about my dad, those stories tend to get after what's most important because it has more decades of time to play out. Yeah. You know, it's hard in one kind of one go to get after the common themes. But the posture of none of us had a perfect dad. Well, that's good. Had the opportunity to take a step forward in the direction that we're living. And then, and then set up our kids for a step forward beyond that. And it all, I think the common thread between generations is how much pain are we passing down to our kids versus how much of a platform are we setting up for them to actually live in freedom and live without that pain that could easily be passed along. So some of that might lead to going to see a counselor. And it's actually people taking a courageous step and saying I'm going to go see a counselor because there's some stuff in my past that's still causing me to pass along pain to my kids. I'm always, always grateful when those themes come up. I actually share with friends that probably more core than fatherhood ministry. Things that I'm really like. This is what God has made me passionate about. It's actually freedom ministry. And when I say freedom, it's Hebrews 12, one and two, the synod intangles, the things that hold us back. Like, can we cast that off? Can we throw it aside so that we can run? I think that is one of the most common things I hear as I interview. Again, our dad's grandpa's peers mentors. Like the theme of when there's moments of, I got free from that thing. There's this trend or there's this tendency. And I did the hard work here so I didn't pass that on to my kids. Man, that freedom that we're setting our kids up. And dude, around me 30, I've set before, this is verse 19. I've set before you life and death blessings and curses choose life so that you and your kids may live. I just am always thankful when those themes of like, no, it's actually a freedom step that set my kids up for life, for all the goodness of God versus the pain that so easily passed forward. And fatherlessness weaves its way in there as well. Like I just think dads who choose to opt out of the commitment out of, I'm going to press in instead. Hey, actually, because of this and that, I'm going to step away from that intentional fatherhood. Man, the pain that comes through that. I just think man, that is what makes me more and more like what I'm doing matters. This is significant and it's making a difference when I connect it to generations. Yeah, and so basically being a dad doesn't mean you're perfect. In fact, if you try to be perfect in front of your kids, they're not going to learn anything. All you've done is just tell them, you're this awesome guy and nothing ever, nothing ever hits you. Right. And then here's all this stuff that they don't see. And so it doesn't help them become better. How do you deal with, you're a very positive person, which is probably just part of who you are. You're probably in any gram 42 or something. I have no idea what. What are those? One of those. But the thing is, is that how do you deal with those things because there's obstacles, there's things that happen. You've got some things that are just like hammer you, you know, hit you in the face. You know, it's that Mike Tyson thing, you know, everybody has a plan until you get hit in the face. How do you come back to a place of positivity when negativity has just hammered you? Yeah. And I've, I mean, this week for sure, like there's the any gram seven that's all positive. And that's just like, let's go. I can keep everybody positive. It does swing to the opposite side, which is, is I actually get really critical. I can use my words, can be words of death instead of words of life. Like I've been learning a little bit about like, hey, speaking blessings over my kids versus curses. I never think of myself as someone who curses their, my kids, but just the way that I talk. And actually using like naming some behavior as like, hey, this is by using a name, it actually they can take on that label. That can be a father who's cursing my little girls. So I find myself doing that. And the question of like, how do you get out of that funk, which I have been, I've been in within the last 48 hours, is to me, it's time in nature. So it's outside as much as possible. But then it's also like, can I find those gaps to hear the voice of my Heavenly Father? So it goes back, it goes back to been up first. My identity as a son of God. To me, it's early morning walks. To me, it's once a month taking a prayer day. So I do the first business day of the month, I unplug and take as a prayer day to look back and look forward back 30 days. What has God showed me? What's he calling me towards the next 30 days? Those are moments that help me re-center what's most important. And I'm very grateful to you. I think we have to find those places of health, right? What helps me become healthy and helps me be healthy as provider, father, those things. You know, a very simple thing I've shared with a lot of young guys, in particular, because my background was building business and management and that sort of thing. So I sort of gravitate that with a lot of different guys. And I tell guys all the time, listen, your children don't understand what you've been through in the day. So rather than coming home and just saying, hey, leave me alone for a second. Or, you know, if you will, a lot of ladies, if you're a parenting and marriage together and you've got your children, the wife will quite often will say, hey, don't leave that alone right now. You know, hey, hang out. I tell them, go ahead and decompress before you get home. You know, and if that's a coffee for 20 minutes, and just seriously, just decompress. Take the ESPN app or whatever, national geographic, you know, something about grizzly bears or something. Just read it, read for a little bit, dial it down a little bit. And when you walk in the house, you belong to them. And I found out that the first 15 minutes of being home, if I was theirs, if I had three children, if I belong to them, and they'd jump down and jump on me, the boys and my daughter would always have, hey, look at that. You know, 20 minutes later, they're like, yeah, good. So I'm going to go, we're going to shoot hoops, or I'm jumping into pool, or she's off listening or watching something. But that first 15, 20 minutes, rather than saying, hey, leave me alone for a minute. In fact, decompress before you get, and the minute you walk in the house belong to them. Man, that was a change for them. And when I started doing that, when they were very young, in fact, Jeff, I don't even know where that come from. When it came from, and maybe it was because that didn't happen, it just, it was one of those things. And later, I realized, boy, this was really an important thing for learn. Great principle. Great wisdom. Yeah, the first impression. And your eyes, they were all, you were all theirs. I probably learned it by having really messed it up, like everything. Like a lot of things. But the things, there's so many things that we learned. You can't learn them all yourself. That's what community is so important. And so you've got the bike rides coming up. You've got, what a 100 mile? What's our call? It's a 100 mile century ride. It's called a century. Yeah. And we did five cities this past year. Five of them. And we don't know how many will lock in, whether it's another five this year, or even as many as ten this year. Those are rides that help, that help. Basically, it helps men become better, you know, in terms of brothers. And then also it raises the, if you will, everybody understands here's what the issue is. We know about fatherlessness. I mean, most of us, but most of us don't know what to do with it. What do we do about it? So you're doing this ride, which helps men become healthier. You guys get together, right? You've got a whole curriculum that they do together. We do. We're grateful to get to resource them. But the, the, the habit stacking of they're going to be stronger after they spend 12 to 15 weeks training. They're going to have more friends because it is a team-based ride. They're going to be drawn into a local church because we, we partner with local churches. They're going to learn about fatherlessness. They're going to meet a local ministry because we give half the money raised to a local ministry that directly serves the fatherless. And the other half global to venture who has orphanages in Southeast Asia. That's fantastic. We're, we're grateful. Yeah. Here we go. Yeah. That's so long. How long does it take to do a hundred yards? A hundred yards. A hundred yards. That's taking an hour. How does it take the long to, how long does it take to do a hundred miles? Yeah. That's about a six hour bike ride. Six hours. It's a long time. Yeah. Dude, man. Now, could I just hire somebody to do half a mile? You know, the, the, we are, we so far have asked the guys to pedal the whole hunt. You guys doing a whole thing? Yes. Man, there's something about, there's something about, you know, being an accepting responsibility in that one. But I think it's, it's really amazing. And then, of course, help sponsor, you know, a lot of guys get sponsors. That kind of thing. They're part of it. They raise funds. It's a fun thing. Family. And they all fill it, you know, follow the, uh, finish the deal and everybody shows up. Pretty cool deal. Yeah. Because the dads are within proximity of their families as well. So I'm grateful that my daughters know as I'm training, hey, dad's doing a train ride. A father's for the fatherless ride. The day of their cheering, but you're right at the finish line. These kids are seeing their dad potentially. It's the hardest thing this dad has done since being their dad. Like it's the hardest physical feet. And they're, they're seeing dad at that place of depletion and of victory. I made it versus so many opportunities to go away from your kids and do something hard. This is, it puts it right in front of them. Yeah, it's fantastic. Well done. Jeff Zog. Uh, dad, awesome podcast. Uh, fathers for the fatherless, uh, wrote, you know, uh, bike rides. All that stuff. I got him, got to come. I got a book coming sometime next year. Uh, right? I mean, it's just like that. Just like that. Just like on the podcast. Yes, I mentioned. I, I seek wisdom from Paul here. It's prophecies. Got a book coming up. Uh, movies. It's going to be all kinds of stuff going on, man. Okay. Right? Denzel. Uh, all these guys on it's going to be fantastic. And, um, also, I want to thank you for, uh, what you do. We're taking, uh, like, taking a step to do this, man. It's a big deal. I'm really proud of you, Jeff. And, um, thank God for a dad who was, who modeled for you. What it means to, to take the risk. Go after it. And for, uh, the Lord to give you a wife. That was really going to be crazy with this crazy guy. And, uh, and your girls. It's going to be amazing to see what's happening years to come. So, Lord bless you, Jeff. Thanks for being on, uh, brave men today, man. My pleasure. Thanks a lot, Paul. Paul. Paul. You've just experienced brave men with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian men's network. Connect with Paul at cmn.man. Or write to him at Paul at cmn.man.