BraveMen S3E98: Dr. Bryan Loritts - The Dad Difference

It's a brave man who will actually write a book about being a dad who is a dad. He's got three teenage sons and he writes a book about the dad difference, Brian Laritz is that brave man. And he's a man of God who wanted to, as he said, have a North Star, providing North Star for us to look at and say, here's where we need to head as dads. Too many times, fathers really get hammered about things we do wrong. And so what what Dr. Laritz wanted to put out was here's some things that are done right. And so it's going to be a great interview here on brave men today. I want to remind us that Christian men's network, cmn.men is what underwrites the brave men podcast. And every year, the first weekend of November, we meet as a crew of men. It was from around the world, but of course, recently with all these pandemic things that's narrowed it to somewhat central in North America. And so we meet in Dallas, November 4, 5 and 6, November 4, 5, 6 for the global summit on Christian manhood, biblical masculinity. So I'm excited about it. A lot of great guests this year, and that's 2021. November 4, 5, 6, we meet at Create Church in Dallas. It should be tremendous. With me is Chris Shields, our producer. And you've been now to a couple of these two, three global summit. I think it's three now. Yeah, or this will be my fourth one. This will be your fourth one really. Wow, you've been around for a while, man. Yeah, hopefully I stay a little bit longer. And the first ones you came with Dr. Jim Garlo. No, the first one who'd come with us first time invited me. I invited you? Yeah, really? You don't remember? Yeah, well, it's indelibly implanted somewhere in my brain, hard to retrieve. Okay, so I invited you, but you were with, I met you with Jim. No. Oh, we were, yes. Originally you met me with Jim, Pastor Jim, yeah. Right, that's where we first met. We were with him. Yes, in Atlanta. And we met in Atlanta at Bishop Eddie Long's Church. No, Bishop Del Broner's Church. It was at Dale Broner's, Bishop Dale Broner's Church. Pastor Eddie Long was there at the time. Yes, sir. Okay, now I got it. Yes, sir. I got it centered in now. Yes, sir. And so Brian Laritz has written this book on the dad difference. And this is a fascinating deal. So the global summit, when we talk about the global summit, it really impacted you and your dad. Yes, it really has. Yes, it has brought us a way closer than we were. I mean, we were close, but this has been, you know, it has opened us up. I would say it like that. Yeah. There's more transparency. Yeah, communication. Yeah, communication. And it's funny looking, you know, thinking about this book, you know, that Dr. Brian Laritz wrote, and the acronym, you know, right, that's what he calls it. Right, yeah. But it stands for relationship integrity, teaching, and experiences. You know, and that has been what I would say has helped us. Those four principles have increased in our, from the global summit. Yeah. And going through the curriculum. So that's November 4, 5 and 6. Yeah. And your dad and you were commissioned. Yes. At the last one. Yes. It was kind of mostly online, somewhat people were there, but you guys were there. That was a tremendous time. Yeah. And this one's going to be in person, and in online, the in person again, limited seating in order to get everybody in there, you know, do it safely and all that kind of stuff. But the dad difference, man, you guys, you've seen that in your own life. Yeah. And it's something we're still walking out. You know, it gets better every day. Yeah. So I love it. Yeah. Don't you think there's an evident flow though? What? Better every day. Yeah. Or good days and bad days. Well, good. And then better over time. Well, yeah. But I mean, I say that's the same thing, right? That's the same thing. Yeah. Okay. You know, I give you that. Yeah. I mean, in the good days, and in the bad days, it's still getting better. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I'm good with that. Yeah. I'll give you that one, Chris. I'll give you that one. Your lake is lost. So I gave you something. My marriage's lost. Yeah. You know, that's the way it goes. You know, but Crawford, Loretts is Brian Loretts' dad, and a lot of people would know him from a lot of his speaking and writing. Yeah. And in Dr. Brian Loretts, his books are really powerful. He's a really deep thinker. Yeah. So when he's thought about these things, like even his answers on this interview, a real thoughtful, like he's thought about these things. I love that. Yeah. You know, powerful. And then he talks about his dad in the book. And in fact, his dad would have, by the time this shows on, from time we interviewed to the time it's on, they've been married 50 years. Wow. So he learned a lot. And so I love this illustration he gave in the book about East. He talked about, he talked about dads that are tailwind or headwind. And a tailwind is like, because he talks about flying from West Coast East Coast. And a tailwind is when, when there's like some momentum given to you. Here's a tailwind dad like, whoo, helps you with your life. Headwind dad's what kind of, kind of holds you back. And he's got a lot of illustrations like this in the book. So I'm thrilled to have Brian Laritz today on Brave Men talking about the dad difference. And remember, again, the C-M-N-Dotman Global Summit, you know, that we're talking about, that helped you and your dad. Yeah. Chris really meant a blessing to you guys. November 4, 5 and 6 are in Dallas. And looking forward to, looking forward to this time with Brian Laritz. This is going to be great. You guys are going to enjoy this. You're going to enjoy this interview today with Brian Laritz, the dad difference today on Brave Men. It's Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole, Wisdom Encourage for the Journey. Speaking right now with Brian Laritz in conversation, we're going to talk about the dad difference. It really comes out of your personal life. And then also not only from a father who, you talk about in the book, but also you are a father. And now you've had the opportunity to counsel many people because you're a pastor to church there in North Carolina, and Raleigh, the summit church. So Brian, thanks for being with me now. Paul, thanks for having me. I've been looking forward to this. Yeah, the dad difference. Four things that every man needs to know. And frankly, most guys don't know. I think if anything, or Brian, if we look back at the last few months of where we're, you know, taping this right now, I would have to agree with a couple of commentators who said, what we're looking at is a fatherless generation. And so the dad difference means everything, doesn't it? Yeah, I mean, sociologists, and I would even say secular sociologists have been saying for years, that there's a link between the home and society. And so the family is just wildly important for the health and flourishing of society. However, you know, I think I would push back on anyone who would suggest that all of our problems are just in the family. You know, when I look at the scriptures, God has created three institutions for the benefit of society, and it's the family, government, and church. And I think all three of those need to be moving locked steps. So yes, you know, if we can get fathers to step up and to lead well in their homes, that's a huge, huge benefit. But it's not going to end police brutality in and of itself. So we need serious reform. Yeah, so. Yeah, no question about that. You know, I guess my thing is that when I look in general at culture and people making decisions based on wisdom or integrity or these basic fundamentals of what makes things work. When we're not making them based on that, we're just shifting. In other words, there's no moral clarity, right? Yeah, I mean, for sure, we are not, it's, you know, it's interesting. I think it's a book of judges that ends with each man did what was right in his own eyes. And that is a perfect summary of what's going on in our world. Today with rampant individualism, this idea of pluralism, relativism, truth like beauties in the eye of the beholder, we are not operating off of any kind of a similar playbook. And that's a problem. So in writing the dad difference. To what end? Another was what audience were you hoping to have? I mean, fathers in general, right? Millions of kids born every month worldwide. But what specifically, what was the outcome that you were looking for? Well, I just, I just wanted to equip and inspire men to just step up and, and to be the great fathers that we know that we can be. So this is not a, you know, there's plenty of books out there that do a lot of finger pointing and point out all the wrong stuff that that actually beat men down. I wanted something that was going to inspire men, give them some sort of a North Star as founded in the scriptures in a, in a very easy, memorable fashion. So I use the acronym of right, fathering right, R-I-T-E, to just talk about what those four gifts that every dad just needs to give to their child. So it's relationships, it's integrity, it's teaching, it's experiences. And those four simple things, I think if we can intentionally devote ourselves to them, will pay huge benefits in the life of our kids. However, I am quick to say in the book that this is not a formula. In other words, you cannot manufacture great kids, right? It's sort of like you can eat healthy and exercise all you want and still die at a young age. However, eating healthy, exercising well expands the possibilities of long life. So it is with these principles. You know, these principles in and of itself does not guarantee great or godly kids. However, if you dedicate yourself to them and you impart them in the life of your kids, it does expand the possibilities. So now you've just messed me up because as a 21st century parent, making sure that no harm comes to my kid, that there's no disease or germs around them, I must, I've got to have a formula that makes everything work. Right. Right. If you're going to turn out perfect because of it. Oh, yeah. There's a lot of tension right there, isn't there? Yeah, there is. Listen, if you've looked at God's kids lately, you know, God is the best father there is, but he still has some jacked up kids. And we have something called free will and sin natures. And, you know, you do the best you can. My dad, one of his favorite quotes, one of my favorite quotes of my dad is, we parents tend to take too much credit when our kids turn out right and too much blame when they don't. And we do the best we can, knowing we'll blow it, asking for grace to fill in those gaps and leaving the results truly up to God. So when you came up with this, which I love, relationship integrity teaching and experiences, how much of that, as you wrote this, because this book just came out, as we're talking, as you wrote this, how much of this did you look at and go, dang it, man, I should have, my second boy, you know, you've got three sons. I should have got a little more here and maybe I will. Did some of this kind of help tweak as you, I mean, writing a book to process? Yeah, so there's, there's theory and there's reality, right? So, and I was telling, I was telling my dad the other day, it feels like that right when my youngest is going to leave the house, is right when I'll figure this parenting thing out. Yeah, you know, and I just think that's, that's just all of us. Like none of us, that's a thousand in this department. We're flawed people by nature. We're going to blow it. We're going to mess up. But I wanted to give people just a North Star, you know, it's one thing to mess up. It's another thing to not have a clear vision. Right. So, I wanted this book to help clarify things for dads that will enhance the possibilities of them being effective fathers. How did your dad teach you integrity because you talk about it? And then how have you modeled that for your sons? Yeah, integrity is not necessarily like a Sunday night divot, right? I think yes, you can talk about it. It's something that's more, I know it's tried, but it's true. It's more caught than taught. And dad just, the very fact that he's married to my mother, they just celebrated 49 years of marriage as a strong testimony of integrity. It's little stuff. Like I remember, gosh, 11, 12, 13 years old, somewhere in there, we stopped by Dairy Queen to get something to eat. He's in the car. I go inside and I get my thing to go, get back in the car and drop a mile down the road. I'm looking at my change going, oh, this person in this grade, the cashier later gave me too much change back. And immediately, bad, does a ui, and I'm like, what are you doing? He goes, integrity says, you were able to get that back. Yeah. And it's stuff like that. Yeah. That dad really modeled integrity or seeing him consistently every morning in the word on his face before the Lord, that kind of stuff is integrity. And I'll say this last thing. Integrity is not moral perfection. And I think a lot of people, you know, they think integrity means that, man, I just do everything accurate and right. That's not integrity. Even in dad's imperfections, this is what I point out in the book, he was still full of integrity. Like when dad wouldn't blow it, he would apologize to us. And would say, look, I, I, I accused you of something that you didn't do. I raised my voice the way I talked to you. It wasn't very honoring, but what informed his, his apologies was his commitment to the word of God. Yeah. And it's his commitment to the word of God that fueled his actions, which is really integrity. So you can blow it and still be full of integrity at the same time. Yeah. You're a human, but you have a moral center because of the word of God. That's right. And then with your, with your own sons, did you have, you know, let's, let's stay on the integrity thing. Were there times that you just sat and taught them, or was there more kind of teachable moments as Kevin Lehman calls it? Yeah, but both, you know, and really, really trying to cease teachable moments. But, I mean, from the time they were, they were little guys. I would give them this, this thumbnail definition of integrity. I would say integrity is the alignment of words with deeds, where to say it another way integrity means I do what I say. And so I just tried to just really impart that into their, into their thinking. And yeah, there were times in which we had to model it. And, and, and one of the biggest payoffs of that is, like just the other night, get a call from my, one of my sons is just learning to drive, and he's out on his own, and he pulls in, I think to wingstop or whatever, and just cuts it a little bit too hard, and scrapes the car next to him. And he goes inside, and he took a picture with the car, goes inside the wingstop where several people are, and he hunts down the person whose car he scraped, and he confesses to him. Hey, I want you to know I'm so sorry. And, man, like what teenager does that? And those, those things are going okay. I think some of those lessons that I've tried to model, and again, I've blown it plenty of times. That's the payoff, is when you see your kids, at least straining towards that. Yeah, it's leaning into that. At least, yeah, that, man, that's a great story, man. Yeah. That's a fantastic story. Then, relationship, integrity, teaching, experiences. Tell me about experiences. What do you mean by that? And I know you bring it out on the book. What do you mean by that? Yeah, so, you know, but, you know, by no means, or Cory and I, wealthy at all, but if you put us on the global scale, like most Americans, we are. You know, we're a middle-class family, and one of the things I've latched on to pretty early in my own experience is, the natural gravitational pull on our kids is downward into entitlement. Like, if I do nothing proactive, I'm going to unleash from my house, self-absorbed, narcissistic, entitled individuals who feel as if the world revolves around them. I mean, sociologists actually say, we're in an age of extended adolescence. And they define adolescence as wanting the privileges of adulthood without the responsibilities. Right. And because of that, they say adolescence has extended to age 35. Yeah. And as a pastor, I see this a lot, where I just see men, you know, in their 20s, 30s, still living at home with mom and dad, no real, you know, sense of drive or ambition about them, playing video games all day, no real sense of get-afterness to them, and it's interesting. Sociologists say, that kind of stuff flourishes in affluent homes. Wow. And this whole happiness ethic to parenting. I've got an Asian friend of mine who said, he said, if there's one word that sums up how many Asians parent and their aspirations for their kids, it's the word successful. We just want our kids to be successful. Then he said, I know I paint with a broad stroke, but in America, it seems as if the one word that sums up most parents' aspirations for their kids, it's happy. Yeah. We just want them to be happy. And when you, when you parent with a happiness ethic, wow. Then you're going to coddle, and you're going to, you're going to make them narcissistic, entitled individuals. And so what Cory and I said was, we need to give our kids experiences to jolt them out of this false sense of reality they're living in. So when they're 10, we take them to Honduras, and we go to Tegusa Dopa, and we serve orphans. We build homes. We stand on a place called the dump, and we give away water and food to these individuals. We would regularly go to the homeless mission when we lived in Memphis. And we would serve food to the homeless, and do all of these kinds of things. We just needed to give them those experiences. We value hard work in our kids. And so when our kids turn 16 years old, they have to get, they have to get a job. And the deal is, look, that's going to buy your car. I'll pick up the insurance, but I won't do that until you have $1,000 in the bank. Because I need to make sure that you can, if anything happens to it, you can fix it. You know, you'll be able to put gas in it the whole night. So trying to give them experiences to entrench the values we want instilled in them. Well, what you did there was, you put together a moral contract between you and your son. Yeah. And in which, in which he had, I mean, this is, that's not an easy thing to do. And then also, you don't know what's going to happen. And so he's, but he's got a deal. It's a contract. This is, this is what it is. Yeah. You're not, you're not there yet. And, you know, the toughest part of parenting on that side of it is keeping that deal. Yes. Yes. Yes. You're $924. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But you couldn't do that because if you really want to teach integrity, there has to be integrity. Always has adversity. That's right. That's right. Okay. So, man, that's, this is stuff right now. There's some guys writing some things down. Right now, that's really important. I remember my daughter. And, and we had an advertiser too. And they were, you know, so they grew up with stuff. But I remember her at 15. She got a job with this little chicken place down her road. And she's pulling guts out of a chicken in the back. Wow. You know, and she came home and told me, I said, well, good for you. You know, and then when you get your, you know, when you get a car, you get something. And then, then, then you know what work is. They've always just worked. I think you teach him, right? Yep. That's exactly it. Man, that whole thing about happiness. That is a huge picture right there, Brian. Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. And look, you know, parents don't like to see their kids struggle. Of course. You know what I'm saying? But I remember several years ago, I like to read biographies. Yeah. And biographies all follow the, the same kind of general arc. Come from nothing, struggle, struggle, struggle, and then make it into greatness. And I remember when you're going, why am I not reading bi and large biographies on their kids? And I think it's because when these parents, struggle, struggle, struggle come from nothing, and then make it, and make it big, make it into greatness. The first thing they say is, my kids will never have to struggle the way that I struggled. Yeah. Not realizing that they're handicapping their kids and keeping them from the very thing that made them great, which is struggle. And that's what Angela Duckworth talks about in her phenomenal book, grit. Our kids are lacking grit and resilience because we're coddling them. Yeah. Dan Crenshaw said the same thing in his book, for you to, because they haven't, adversity always creates, you know, a stronger center core. And, and helicopter parents, we just come in and we want them happy. Man, that is a perfect thing. I mean, it's like even just being cut off of a teen. You know, it's going, going after things like that and, and struggling against adversity. Our children have to have that or they will not be strong. Right. So, and in relationship. Now, what do you, what it was that you and your wife did for your three sons? Now, they're still in their late teens, as we talk. But obviously, the one, went in and did that whole thing with the note, you know, that's how it was. It was a great thing. Scraped the car. By the way, how bad was it? It wasn't bad at all. It wasn't, in fact, the people whose car he scraped, they called the cops to follow police report. And the cops came and said, it's nothing. We don't file police reports unless it's over $1,000 worth of damage. And that's far from it. So. Yeah. Well, good for him. Man, but that must have been a, between you that helped them and what what if you had to change as they go older. Number one I just think we've given them a picture of marriage and not an Instagram picture of marriage where you know they only see the best parts of us. You know they they've seen us on great days and not so great days. To the point where they each aspire to be married you know there's a lot of people who come from abusive homes or broken homes. You know the marriage rate has been declining for some years and people are giving up on the institution because there was a lot of pain and they just had bad models for it. So the fact that all three of my kids have kind of made the assumption that some family married shows that that what we've modeled has been compelling enough for them to say I want to try. That that's really an interesting measurement. I've not heard it like that that's fascinating measurement and then disciplining okay we're talking boys. So disciplining your sons how has that changed how to start and how has that shifted as they got old. Yeah I mean you know when they were younger we would definitely spank one of the things that we would we would do is we would tell them how many how many licks they would get in advance so that we were not out of control and usually is around three. And that was very very important to us that we just don't fly off the handle or anything we would explain things to them. But man once they turn around eight nine ten we didn't do that anymore. Yeah and once we got to know their personalities we knew what would really hit them. So for my youngest season off the rails extrovert so to send him to the room and say you just need to stay there is man that just kills them. All of them all of them taken their form away is huge like that is their their outlet to the world. Now it's now it's at the point where you know give me the keys to the car. You know that's that's huge and then with with my 19 year old I don't even take the keys from his car. I I give him room to make decisions and then let him live with the outcomes of his decisions. Bam there it is right there. Yep. But it's hard it's hard you want to jump in there and you want to you want to wrestle and at times you want to over communicate something and you just got to stop yourself and go hey I think I've said this before he knows what he should be doing. And if he doesn't do it he's just going to live with the consequences of it. Hey this is Chris I want to take a moment right in the middle of this great conversation to let you know the Brave Men podcast is a production of the Christian Men's Network Worldwide and the Global Fatherhood Initiative. Christian Men's Network has helped pastors and leaders disciple men for over 40 years. You can find all the resources for mentoring and fatherhood at cmn.men. That's the Christian Men's Network at cmn.men. We have tremendous resources for churches with special discounts for groups on that website. Everything a church needs from A to Z to mentor and disciple men of all ages and backgrounds. And cmn has created a 12-part training course on how to create a successful ministry to men for pastors and leaders. Check it out. majoringinmen.com which is the solution to men's discipleship because of the generous sponsorship of the Christian Men's Network partners what would normally cost $100 is now free. That's the majoringinmen.com. It will help us continue to reach the lives of many men around the world if you would like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and subscribe to this podcast and share it. That's the Christian Men's Network in Paul Lewis Cole. Now let's get back to this powerful interview between Paul and Dr. Brian Laritz. You know, it's funny. I've got a friend of mine. It's a highly placed in New York with a major corporation. He said one of the biggest problems with their HR department is parents of the kids that they're hiring. These are people already graduated from college. Most of them with some sort of master's degree or whatever because of this certain organization that he's at. They'll get hired in and if there's an obstacle or a problem or a situation the parents will call HR. This is a 26 year old Ivy League graduate. They've had to actually come up with a what do you call a protocol? How do you deal with a parent of a 26 year old who's called complaining? That's just that's that's unbelievable. But it's the way it's the way the world is. You know, it's that whole Peter Pan syndrome, man. It's that kids at 30 who are still. And you know, my contention is 35 year olds 30 35 year olds arrested adolescents. You know, the typical gamer in America. And I just thought North America. This is true all over the Western world though in that sense. Well, really the whole world because everybody's doing games and video games. But the average gamer is 34 years old. Wow. Because the money that's made off gaming is five times to to eight times the size of the movie industry. In other words, it's tens of billions of dollars versus 20 billion dollars. Right. So, so what's happened is in order to because the income is made in the middle of a game, right? I mean, right when your kids were young, they're going, Dad, can I buy this armor? You go buy the armor. What do you mean? I made the third level. Right. Right. It's armor. How much is it? Well, it's only eight bucks or whatever. You know, everything's four dollars three ninety nine. And it adds up to eighty seven billion dollars. And in order to keep those 34 year olds playing video games, my contention, Brian, is that this adolescence, if you will, has been programmed into the advertising. Programmed into movies like hung hangover, things like that. Where guys are in their 30s, they're successful. They're making a lot of money, but they're still acting like idiots. They're still kids. And to me, there's there's a if you will, and we can come back to it's a spiritual battle, right? Right. The spiritual battle and the enemy's trying to keep guys emasculated, immature, because immature men make immature decisions. That's right. And they keep doing their gaming, but then the other thing is, is it the family breaks down? That's right. You know, I mean, if you, if we look at you talked about police brutality, what, where does that come from, right? It doesn't come from maturity. And it doesn't come from a spiritual understanding of the human dignity of each person. Right. It comes out of an immature, arrested personality that's, that's just never grown. Yep. I mean, on, on almost every occasion that I've studied over the last, we're going back. I mean, frankly, going back to Detroit in the 60s, 64. Because I'm a little older. When you study out all those things, you look at it and you say, okay, this is people who, who's, who didn't finish developing their character personality, whatever you want. You know, whatever you want to measure. So when you talk about those things, that's why to me, the church. You know, why close out of church if you're in the middle of domestic violence, right? Fatherhood, all those particular issues, Brian, that you deal with on a regular basis and you speak into. So how does a dad speak into the issues? You know, let's just talk, you know, about your family. How do you speak to your sons about the issues with police? About how to, how to conduct yourself, comport yourself in particular situations? Well, yeah, that's a standard talk. We people of color. Yep. Have with our kids. And so, you know, I tell people all the time. When I gave our kids their first driving lesson, it had nothing to do with. There's the gas, here's the brake, here's the turn signal. It's what to do when you get pulled over. Where you put your hands? Yeah, hands visible at all times, no sudden movements. Yes, sir, no, sir. I know you may be angry and frustrated, but you can't show that. If you have to, you know, go to the glove box to get your registration card. You ask for permission first, because we need you to come home safe. Because unfortunately, this idea of implicit bias is just so real. It's just, it's really real. And so, they've made assumptions about you. And that will inform their behavior. And let me just say this. I'm sensitive to the fact that being a police officer is a tough job. And oftentimes, they've got to make life and death decisions in a split second. Right. And so, you know, we just have real, real conversations. And my, my tension as a follower of Jesus Christ, who's an African-American man, raising young men of color is, is giving them wisdom without instilling bitterness, or hatred, or suspicion of white people. So I want you to be aware, but we're also called to love. That's, that's tough. But no, we have honest, frank conversations all the time about these things. You know, I think that right there, when you talk about relationship, integrity, and teaching and experiences, to me, that's it right there is honest. And I think you can be honest understanding your child three or four or five. And the different levels of honesty, if you will, like an onion, it just begins to become uncovered. That's why dad is the way he is, or that's why he thinks. Right. You know, the young man who's on our team to put this together, Chris, the contact to do guys, and we put this interview together. You know, his dad is coming home from preaching, preaching. Wearing a suit. And Chris and his brother sitting in the back seat, mom in the front seat, they get pulled over in San Diego, and they live there. He still gets pulled out of the car and has put his hands on the car. Where are you coming from, sir? I just got done preaching at a church. It wasn't the pastor, it was a lay pastor, you know, but wow. Now these things, I guess for some people, they wouldn't understand that. Yep. I think this is where we have to be aware. But we also have to not live in fear. Yep. You're going to live in, if you put your child, if I take my child, my sons, my kids are now my grandchildren. And I basically feed them with stuff off of Fox and CNN on a regular basis. They're going to be living in fear of basically everything. Yep. Yep. That's where what I appreciate about the summit church and about what you do and who you are. And you've mentioned a number of times, is it always comes back to the word. That's right. That's right. Right? The foundation of the basis. So what you fill your, your sons with is a, is a integrity comes out of faith. And it comes out of who I am. That's right. And if you're, your sons is, I'm a Lerits. This is how I act. That's right. This is who I am because this is my faith. This is my relationship with my family with my dad with my God with my grandfather. This is who we are. So the identity man that, that whole thing, when you were talking about relationship, what you're really talking about in this book, it's so good. The dad difference. Is you gave your sons an identity. This is who I am. This is how it will attack. And when you talk about the book of Judges and the end of the book of Judges, the problem there, you look at the life of Gideon, Gideon had this amazing start, and we all talk about, hey, you know, be like a Gideon, be a Gideon generation. The problem is in chapter 8, it says he had 70 sons. And two verses later, it says when he died, he lost the kingdom. And not one of his sons, Brian. Not one of his sons stood up and said, that's not who we are. And that's not who my dad was. And that's not whoever's last name was. That's not who a Gideon is. 70 sons and a failure of Gideon's life. And the disaster of the finish of his life is he didn't disciple his sons. This is not an option, is it? No, not an option at all, at all. So when you wrote this book, the takeaway is here's a way to dissolve, because most of us don't know how to do it. Absolutely, right? Right. I mean, we look at different guys, even guys that are in culture that we see, whoever maybe says, yeah, you know, my dad didn't tell me this stuff. My dad didn't show me this stuff. So thank God for someone like yourself, taking the experience of life, taking the things that have happened to you, putting together in the dad difference, this book, and saying, men, gentlemen, here's a way to raise your son. Here's an acronym. I like Andy Stanley's picture. He says, you know, your truth has to be portable. Yes. Right? You have to be able to carry it. Yes. And, uh, right. You know, of course, you know, it's a good doubt this way of doing it too. Of course, if it's bad, just everything wouldn't have started with the letter R. Right. Absolutely. But right, relationship integrity, teaching and experiences. And I think this is a really important book. Thank you for taking it because this is books aren't easy. People go, oh, hey, nice book. But man, this is a lot of sweat and pain. Yes, yes. And you've written a number of books, but each one has that, uh, it was at Sam Chand, I think, talked about preaching. He says, giving blood. Yep. And, uh, and writing the books, the same thing. You know, what do you, what do you feel like, Brian, talking with Brian Leritz in the book, is the dad difference. What do you feel is, as you look at your sons now, here they are, 1917, 15, right? As we're speaking. Right. Right. And you look at it, you go, okay, when they were early teens, and of course, the first one is your practice one. Right. Right. Then there's the one that you think gets it. And then there's the last one you go out. Well, whatever he gets is fine. That's the grandchild. What is it that, as you, uh, you know, as you look at this and experiences, what is it you feel like? Man, this, this was something that worked. And then this is something that did work. Yeah. You know, I think, um, the more I've gotten into the, into the parenting journey, the more patient I've become. You know, um, you know, the, the stuff that, um, I would have flew off to handle with, uh, when my oldest was seven, eight, nine years old. It's not that I've become passive. Um, but I've, I've realized that in the scheme of things, yeah, it's not as big or urgent of a deal as you're making it. And to try to be more patient, um, and, you know, the, the, the thing I point out in the book is, even though it's an acronym, I like the fact that it begins with relationship. And I, I just think that's, that's all effective leadership begins with relationship. Yes. And wanting to, wanting to know how that has uniquely wired each of my sons and to be tethered to them and to speak their love language, speak it often, speak it well, you know, my sons and I, we've been going to the driving range lately, um, and just spending, spending time. And I think the equation for rebellious child is rules without relationship. Equals rebellion. When I'm loud on behavior and very soft on relationship, um, that's going to communicate a performance driven ethic to our, you know, to our relationship, which will either lead to despair, you know, they just kind of, you know, what's the use in trying and, and that's, that's the younger brother in this story of, uh, Luke 15, the prodigal son, or it's just a self-righteous individual, um, who's just absolutely heartless, but who bases their identity on keeping rules and neither is what you want. Yeah. You know, but I think when there's the emphasis on relationship, and of course, there's a place for rules absolutely, you know, oh, one of the mantra, one of the mantras in our house right now is, you know, my two oldest, um, they, they keep saying, well, well, you know, I'm an adult, I'm an adult, and I'm going, if you're going to be grown, let's be all the way grown, right? So you need to help with the mortgage, you need to, again, they don't want to be all the way grown, right? So, but anyways, yeah, yeah, I love that. Be all the way grown. Yep. Yeah, it's like, uh, they were asking, uh, they were asking, it just revised me of, uh, they were asking, uh, Dak Prescott about, uh, Z Kelly, or no, they were asking Z Kelly about Dak Prescott. You said, you know, what do you think he's going to do? And, uh, you know, were you surprised at how strong he was at the end of last season, all that? Zeke says, uh, I'm not surprised at anything that man does. He's a grown-ass man. I thought, man, I've never heard a better description of what it is to be a man. Yeah. Yeah. Zeke said about Dak is like, you know what? That's what, that's what you want your boys to be right there. That's right. That's what he wants to be. One of the things we say in Christmas network is where there's less love, there's always more love. Yep. But where there's more love, there's less love. And, uh, and show me an undisciplined child, and I'll show you a child who's not loved. So through discipline always comes from love. You talk about a right to start. Don't do it out of anger. Don't do it. Be out of a reaction. I see too many times where I'm where parents or dads are, uh, you know, getting on their kids because they're frankly embarrassed because they're at the driving range, let's say, or playing baseball or something and their kids have an tantrum over not being able to hit the pitch or something. So he corrects them right there in front of everybody out of his own embarrassment, not out of helping that young man become, you know, a better person. Now, love the thing you said about, uh, finding the, uh, you didn't say the bent, was it finding finding what each, the nature of each one's who they are. Yep. And then tie yourself into that. Yep. Rather than trying to make them like you or make them like a certain thing, find out the bent of their life. That's right. Deopardy and them towards that. This is great stuff. If I want to mention again, the dad difference, uh, and, uh, Dr, uh, Brian Leritz, and your family and Brian Leritz.com, uh, we can get the book on the Amazon. Is that right? That's right. That's right. And you've got other books. People should read them. Uh, you had, you had a story. Well, I mean, it was on Instagram, uh, because I was looking at your Instagram a couple of days ago and it was, uh, a group on San Luis Obispo was reading one of your books. Yes. Yep. Yep. What book was that? Insider outsider. Insider outsider. Yep. And it was a group of guys out in San Luis Obispo. Absolutely. Yep. Isn't that Cal Poly? Isn't Cal Poly right out there? Absolutely. Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. Yeah. That's it. And so, uh, and this group had you come in and speak by zoom. That's right. Is that right? Yeah. That's fantastic. I love this stuff that's happening right now. I thank God for a summit church where you're a teaching pastor for you and what you're doing of Ryan for your family. I, I, I get so fired up when I see a dad who's invested in his sons because I think somewhere there's a dad who's got daughters or so or a bunch of dads with three girls that are just praying, oh, God. I mean, I've got friends of mine. They call, I've had guys call me say pray for my daughters because there's no guys to marry. You know, and I just thank God for a dad like yourself with these, with these sons that are changing the future of the world. Actually, change the future of the world. So I thank God for you, Brian and your ministry and what you do and the kind of us and everything else you've put your hands to. I mean, we can go through the internet and find you all over the place. And I think 80% of it's good, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, 80%. And Paul, thanks, thanks for having me on the show, man. I, I definitely enjoyed my time with you. So yeah, that's great. So we pray to every place you put your feet as hologram and everything your hands touch will prosper. And the Lord will give you great voice and great platform to speak into fathers and dads around the world. And we pray for your own family to be deep, held deeply within the grip of his favorite grace in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Those blessings. Paul, this is June and this is Father's Day Month. What is Father principles that you could give us to make us better men, better dads, better fathers principles? Well, first of all, you have to read Brian's book, right? And I don't know if I mentioned he's a teaching pastor at the summit church. I think we mentioned that in Raleigh when we talked about it. But you know, when you talk about principles, the thing that I love about Dr. Ritz and what we just talked about is he honored his dad. Yeah. Okay. So that's, that is the fifth commandment's first one with promise. Honor, right? I think it's something that we have a tendency and I give you an example. I have a friend of mine whose father does not live for Christ or particularly was not for a long time until recently. But he and I got together a few years ago and we were talking about a new house he was building. In fact, we were walking the property and he's building a new house, a beautiful place. And I said, well, you'll probably have your dad, you know, it'd be a cool thing to have your dad pray a dedication over this. He goes, I don't know if my dad can do a prayer without an F bondman. Wow. And I said, well, generationally, you know, when you look at legacy to have your dad pray over this could be, you know, something that's really a blessing from God, you know, and bring a type of legacy stamp on it and bless the blessing of the father. He said, yeah, I said, well, I said, go study the blessing of a father and see what comes out of that. Well, studied it, call his dad, flew his dad in, flew his dad and his dad's girlfriend in, okay? Had the in told his dad, I want you to pray over the house and dedicate the house. The house has been built. So now it's done and they're kind of having a party, is it? And he stopped everything. So, okay, I want my dad pray a blessing over this place. He had already told his dad, well, his dad gets emotional. His dad didn't swear, which was like a blessing, you know, from his kids and everything. His dad prayed over the house. It wasn't eloquent. It wasn't, but it was what his dad knew and his dad prayed blessing, okay? Watch us. So that's so marked his dad. He, that when, when he dropped him off the airport, my friend told me, his dad turned to him. He said, I, you know, they were there for a week. I said to the hotel letter. He said, I can't believe this happened. He said, I just want you to know something. I'll love you and I'm proud of you. He hadn't told his son that. In fact, my friend said, I don't know that my dad had ever, ever told me that. Wow. Ever. Maybe when I was a kid, he said, but he said in my, in my older, like, teen years and playing sports and all this sort of stuff, he said, I kind of, I can't, I can't remember him ever saying I was proud of you. I remember him saying sometimes, I love you. He said, but it was so seldom. It kind of was almost a throwaway line. He said, but he hugged me. And I went and saw him about a year later. My friend's telling this, went and saw him about a year later. And we sat down and just started talking. I had drank together and said we're talking and he said, my friend said to his dad, dad, you know, when you said you were proud of me at the airport a year ago and he said you love me. I don't know that you ever said that together in one sentence or even have ever said that to him. And his dad said to him, well, I've always been proud of you. Well, he said, I guess I just never said it because I wanted you to be rugged and strong and be on your own that kind of stuff. And he said, it doesn't come easy to me. Well, that conversation, okay, this is a couple of about two years ago, that conversation, the year later after he honored his father by having him pray for that in that conversation, he let his dad to Christ. Well, dude, I'm telling you, there are principles of the kingdom that are alive and real. And when we talk about, when Dr. Leritz talks about some of the things he talked about in this book, the dad difference. These are not just, hey, this would be a nice thing. When we talk about righteousness and integrity and the, in a dad sharing experiences with his son and, you know, R-I-T-E, right? Yes, right. When we talk about things, I don't believe, Chris, that this was just, oh, these are nice suggestions. I think these have real impact and they have real deep consequences because words have power and ideas have consequences. And when a man puts into his son or his daughter, ideas, the framing of their mindset that comes out of his words and the way he, the child watches his dad live his life, it makes all the difference. And so this podcast, you know, I know that Dr. Leritz, you know, he tried to kind of dial it back a little in a sense, hey, you know, do these things, your kids are going to be perfect. We don't want to say that. But the fact is if you don't do them in a sense, it's kind of like, it's kind of like in basketball, you're a baller, right? So in basketball, the shots that you don't take will always be the ones you miss. Yes. Is that right? Yes. How do you say it? Is that the way you say it? That's the way you say it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So the shots that you, yeah, you have to take shots. So you've got to take shots. Yeah, it's like when you make a game winning shot, the people are celebrating the fact that you made it in that moment, but you know how many of those you missed on your own. Yeah, you know, yeah. So I think the thing is what with Dr. Leritz right now is that you take the shot. Yeah, because the shot you know, you'll miss 100% of the times the one you don't take. That's it. Yeah. The shot, you know, for sure that you'll miss is the one you don't take. Yeah. So you take the shot, you pour the gospel, you pour the kingdom, you pour life, you pour speaking life over your kids into your children and then you go, here, Lord, here's this, here's this child and that guy can make some wrong decisions and and we all have. Yeah, right? Yeah. But the fact is if you haven't put this into them, they have no moral compass to which to back fall fall back on. Yeah. When they hit tough times. So, uh, hey, uh, Christian is network tools to grow strong men, strong men make strong families, strong families make strong churches. And we believe the church is the hope of the world in Christ, for Christ. And so we are, we are Christ centered and church centric. C-M-N-D-M-N. So yeah, so I did, you asked one question, didn't you? Yeah. I gave you like a six minute answer. No, but that was perfect. But it's good stuff, man. Yeah. I come back to, uh, Brian and the stuff he talked about, tell one dad, head one dad, you know, you can hold your kids back and part of it is by not sharing your experiences in your life and letting them watch your life in reality and living in front of them. So good stuff. Great to be on Brave Men again today. Remember C-M-N-Dotman tools, resources, we've got the global summit coming up in November 4, 5, 6, which is going to be fantastic. Yes. Ivan Ruff is going to be there. A number of other great friends. Yes. And so we're looking forward to that. So, uh, thanks for being with today on Brave Men. Remember Psalm 131, hope now, hope always. Amen. You just experienced Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian men's network. Connect with Paul at C-M-N-Dotman or write to him at Paul at C-M-N-Dotman.