BraveMen S3E94: Brian Dickinson - In the Death Zone on Everest

If you look in the dictionary under overcomer, champion, warrior, Brian Dickinson's photo needs to be there. This is a man who had 29,000 feet on Mount Everest, lost his vision, his oxygen runs out, he's by himself, and he made it down the mountain. This is one of the most amazing stories. In fact, Chris Shields is with me, our producer for Brave Men, and Chris, one of the things that hit me about this in his book Blind Descent is, it's like a movie that you go, yeah, that didn't really happen. Yeah, that didn't really happen. That's just a movie, right? It's like somebody wrote a movie, but this man lived it. Exactly. And he's so humble about it. This conversation is, you know, sometimes we have conversations, we have so many great friends and guests that are on Brave Men, but this is one of those ones that stands out. Oh, yeah. Because you're like, dude, seriously? Yeah, because it's mind blowing. That happened? Yeah. You know, but you go back again, and we've talked about it a lot, and it's part of the whole character piece that we talk about with with Krishmin's network, seaman.man, and the things we do, which is this man had trained for this. There were certain things in his background. Somebody asked me about my wife having cancer, and I said, you know, our response to the phone call, I have bad news, it's cancer, was that we did what we had trained for a whole lot. So good. We did communion together. We began to pray together. We called some close friends who knew how to pray. We began to do what we knew to do. Yes. And Brian was a six years U.S. Navy as a combat search and rescue. These guys, dude, these guys are studs, man. Yes. He's the guy who goes out in the big waves and rescue people who are about to die, lower themselves. They have to catch, have to grab a hold of this person, get them in. It's an amazing thing. And then he ends up climbing all these mountains, all over the world, and he ends up on Everest. Absolutely. He's lost his sight. He didn't come back for about a month. This is the most amazing story. Yeah. And the only thing I can think of, you know, I got to do a Bible reference. The second Corinthians 517. We walk by faith and not by sight. And that is the reality that he illustrates in this story. You know, he literally lost his senses. And I think oftentimes one of the things we neglect sometimes in the church to speak about is the spiritual senses that God gave us. You know, yes, you can take my physical sight, but you can't take my spiritual sight. And like you said, if I'm training just like Paul mentions in Corinthians as well, what are you training for? You know, this is not something he said, I trained like an Olympic runner. You know, why? Because he knows that this world is not on your side. It's trying to lead your senses. But when you tap into faith, your senses are in the right track. And I acronym for faith, full assurance in the heart. You know, it goes back to that heart thing that we've been talking about, Paul. Yeah, it always goes back to the heart. And that's what that's what Brian showed his heart and what he had built himself. Yes. You know, well, I don't want to give away what happened because we talk about what happened at the top of the mountain when he prayed. Yeah. And what he felt and what he has to what he shares with people and what he has to say, you know, I didn't get down by myself. I mean, he told Anderson Cooper on seeing any so I wasn't there by myself. Wow. You know, and it's an amazing thing to hear Brian Dickinson talk. You know, building inner strength and inner depth and the ability to get through difficult chaotic times is why we do Christian men's network. Yes. And the tools that we have put inside us is what helps us go through tough times like Brian did. Yes. And you can find those tools at cmn.man. Yes. And you've gone through it yourself, you and your dad. I have. And, you know, one of the things I'll never forget the first time my dad, and I didn't even know this at the time, Paul, about Christian men's network and stuff like that. Your kid, you don't know titles and brands. You just know. Oh, this is a quote my dad told me. So my dad tells me he says, champions are not those that never fell. It's those that never quit. And I took that to every basketball game, every football game. And we'd be there in the fourth quarter down losing. And I said, Hey, guys, champions are not those that never fail. It's those that never quit. We can still win this game. And you know what, Paul, that was the fuel that light us to win so many different games that the coach would be like, Chris, you should be coaching this day when you come up with that stuff. But your dad had taught you and that came out of Maximized Manhood. Exactly. And Christian men's network and the the ministry now you and your dad have gone through that. Yes. As have millions of other men, but you know, Maximized Manhood has been read now by 28 million men. Wow. They estimate close to 30 million. Wow. We're a wide. And in China right now, there's 4,600 men's leaders who have under them. They're all regional all over China. And under them are hundreds of other men studying. Wow. Because they're they're passing it on doing legacy. We got 4,600 leaders with four to 500 men, say, under each one of those. That means there's there's hundreds of thousands of men across China. Wow. That right now are going through materials to help them be discipled to be better people to withstand the pressure that's happening in that country, the oppression that's coming against the church. And so, you know, so when we talk about all these things and a test of fortitude, dude, I'm telling you, I'm putting Brian Dickinson in there. Well, you know, something that you've told me that really marked me was when you begin to teach about pressure magnified, you know, and it's amazing what you put in yourself, what you dedicate to is going to be shown, you know, and that is what showed in the story that we're about to dive into. Yeah, you know, what a man is in his life when you see it under pressure and, you know, pressure magnifies. Yes. What comes out of a man is what he's put in. And that's what we learned today from Brian Dickinson. So thanks for being with us on Paul Lewis Cole with me, Chris Shills our producer for Brave Men. And let's get right into the story of Brian Dickinson. It's Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole, wisdom and courage for the journey. Hey, I'm talking with Brian Dickinson and Brian wrote a book called Blind Decent, Surviving Blind and Alone on Everest. And Brian, I'm in page 207. And you've just fallen down from the top of Everest. You can't see anything. And if I hadn't known, I was going to interview you and we were going to have a conversation. I'd been even more freaked out that I was. I was freaked out just reading it. But you actually lived this. Tell me what happened when you got to the top of Mount Everest, May 15th, 2011. Yeah. Yeah, we're 10 year anniversary coming up here in a few months. Yeah. Yeah, May 15th, 2011. I sold the summit of Mount Everest, which is pretty unusual. There's only a handful of people that have, you know, ever had the soul. I didn't intend to do that. I had a Sherpa support, but Passong, my Sherpa Ferente ended up getting sick down at about 28,000 feet. We had a conversation and he said he was going to wait down there, ended up going down to high camp. And I continued up. So made it to the top, you know, took the highest selfie in the world. And, you know, amazing views and just, you know, a two month expedition coming to an end. Of course, I was halfway done. I had to get down still. And because of a goggle malfunction, the day prior, we had to rip an internal lens out, you know, cutting their effectiveness in half. And the just the just Everest, you know, at 29,000, 35 feet up there in the death zone, there's only a third of the air, third of the ozone. I have blue eyes as soon as the sun came up, banked off the ice, it fried my corn, Mia. So on my way down went completely snowblind. And with snow blindness, it is the sun burning of the corn, yet it takes about 24 hours to return. I wouldn't fully regain my eyesight for about a month and a half after this moment, after this moment. So I'm at the highest point in the world, completely alone. Nobody coming to get me. And you can't see, I can't see a thing. And I just, I got up and started moving just slowly, slowly making my way down, just hand over hand. So there's fixed lines. So there's ropes attached to anchor points that sharp, you know, guides in myself put. So I'm attached to that. But traversing down from the highest point in the world in the worst possible conditions, 50 mile an hour winds kicking up. And like you said, I just, I reached that point where I took a major fall. But the entire journey down, and I never thought too much about it, but I just, I had this presence around me, just this peaceful presence, maybe like if you and I are in a room and you close your eyes, but you know, I'm there. And it's just not, not something I necessarily thought about, but it was always there. I just, I kept trying to do it on my own. I'm, you know, I'm in a case smart guy, you know, I'm not the smartest in the world, but I knew there was a high likelihood that I was not going to make it out alive. But I wasn't willing to accept that. Yeah, let me set the context. And in fact, that is, that is one of the things that at one point in this, and this book is incredible. It's called Blind Decent, D-E-S-C-E-N-T, Brian Dickinson. And you can find interviews with Brian all over the internet and, and find his book a lot of places. And it is a great read. And it's a great one to buy one for you and one for a young friend, a young man, somebody who's trying to look at what his future of his life is going to be, what his purpose of his life is, because Brian, I want to go through some of these things. But that kind of set the stage right there. Because, because what happened is the cramp on, which is a, a set of spikes that clips on or gets tied onto the bottom of your boot, had come off. And, you know, the fact that you even found it again is crazy. And I remember you, in an interview with Anderson Cooper, you told him, I just had this sense that somebody else was there with me. And I saw Anderson go, huh, okay, we'll tell me about the goggles. It's kind of funny. He was like, okay, but man, you just felt the presence of God. Yeah. Yeah, and I truly feel, you know, just looking at it now, you know, I've had, you know, 10 years to look back and do motivational talks and everything else. You know, the whole, whole way down, God's just hanging out. He has his hand, you know, his arm, his hand outreached. He's like, I'm here whenever you need me. Well, I just continue down like I got this, like I'm, I'm the manly man, you know, I used to jump out of helicopters in the Navy and rescue down pilots, that type of thing. Like I got this and I tried so hard. And I reached a point where I couldn't do it on my own. Yeah. And you had to say, God, I need you. Yeah. Yes. 27,500 feet. It was the balcony, the halfway point down where Pissong, my Sherpa friend was supposed to be. He wasn't there. It was at that point. I reversed my gear, started repelling down. And, and then I ran out of oxygen. And in the death zone, it's, it's not like scuba diving where it's 100% compressed because you would die instantly. But it's, it's mixed with the outside air. And there's still a high likelihood you're not going to make it. And by that point, I had been climbing for about 33 hours from the day prior to that point. As you start the way this thing works for people who haven't done it or been around, people like yourself who are ventured mountain areas, mountaineering guys, you started the previous evening around 6 p.m. Go right? Yeah, I started getting ready, probably heading up around 8.30 in the evening. So you're doing it with all headlights. Okay. So by the time the goal is by the time you summit, the sun is just peeking over the horizon. That's the goal. Yeah, you want to get up because on highly glaciated peaks, the sun is not a friend because things become very unstable. That's when avalanches kick off. Things get slushy. Wow. Just crazy. When you talk about glaciated, you're talking about rocks, if you will, giant. Let me put it in a phrase. Huge ice cubes that are size of five story buildings. Right? Yeah. You're crawling between them over them. Then you've also got the granite. Is that right? Is it granite? Yep. That you're trying to climb up sheer faces. And that ice is so hard. What do you call it? I call it bulletproof. Bulletproof ice. So I mean, even when you swing a pickaxe at it or something like that, you barely get a hold in it. Yeah, just chips away. Okay. All right. This is absolutely remarkable. So this is Mount Everest talking with Brian Dickinson on Brave Man today, surviving blind and alone on Everest. Do this remarkable story. And let me give you some background. Let's look at some background because climbing Everest doesn't just happen. I mean, is that probably what two or three month expedition? Well, yeah. I mean, it should be way beyond that like a lifestyle. Like if you just show up and want to climb, you know, that's a recipe for putting yourself and others at risk. So it's good to have a long history of portfolio of lots of climbs around the world. Right. So you've got you've got the two or three months of that expedition. You've got at least maybe let's say 10 years prior to that. I've seen somebody listen to you talk about some of your training. It makes my little 20-pound rucksack look like a worse man. It's all relative. Yeah, it's all relative. Okay. But I mean, you put 60 pounds on you and it'll go climb mountains just to stay in shape around where you live, right? Yeah, it's it's better to train for the things that are within your control while you're down at sea level or wherever you live because you have to have the ability to respond to those things outside of your control. And they happen quickly without notice on the mountain. And if you're not fit, you didn't do your homework at home, then you know, you're kind of host. Yeah, you have to train for that moment. You can't think about it. It's it's being a middle linebacker. You know, talked with Christian Taylor, who's a world triple jump champion. And he talked about same thing. You know, he's he's one two Olympic gold medals. He said, all of that, that little moment, that little jump is years and years and years and years of doing the same thing over and over and over to where when that moment came, I didn't have to think about it. Yeah. You know, Brian, I think about us as men, how often we get into a tough situation, whether it's we got to make the payroll for our business or or we're in a moment of, you know, like deep issues with our marriage or whatever. And dude, we just we just don't seem to train for those things. And so when they come, we want God to kind of like be a magician, rather than having worked it out. So really, it's ahead of time, isn't it? It is. And I think I think that's a fault of all of ours because we had the human factors involved. And we don't go to God. We don't bring him into the situation. The conversation early enough. It's in those panicked moments where it's like, where have you been? Well, I've been here the whole time. But if we actually go to God, whether it's parenting in our marriage, in our work, our finances early on, he's going to lead us in the direction he feels. Otherwise, you know, we're in control. And when that control, we lose that control. You know, we're like, where have you been this whole time? It's like, well, you're heading down that path. And you should have probably been going this way. You grew up in Southern Oregon, Rogue River. Is that right? Yep. And so, you know, what I know about Oregon having grew up in California is, is you guys were already, I mean, you guys are outdoorsman when you're five. Yeah, we're younger. Okay, sorry. So you grew up in the outdoors, is that right? Yeah. Yeah. The Rogue River is a really small town, like 2000 people. I mean, it's, it's tiny. You know, everyone, you know, update and everyone and it's my type of town's awkward. But we're right in the mountains right there in the system. So yeah, I was, my grew up just running through the mountains and being adventurous. It didn't matter, matter what the weather was. You know, I had a, I built an obstacle course in the mountains. And I would just be cruising out there and just, you know, just having fun yet. And say, we have technology is in the 80s. You know, so we don't have all the distractions that the kids have today. So I feel pretty blessed around that because I think it created, you know, I think I was already wired a certain way. But then it helped reinforce that wire. Yeah. And and so you, I mean, you create your own obstacle course. So you're already sort of leaning into this, right? Yeah. This wasn't something that just came out of a challenge in a bar or something. And when you go climb a mountain, this is a leaning of your life, right? Yeah, I think so. I think even what I did in the military, you know, it was, it was all, you know, part of this plan, whether I knew that or not, just trusting that plan. But it was, it wasn't your, your average job in the military. I mean, because because I look at you now in terms of, you know, the book and your motivational speaker, your traveling, you're speaking to major corporations, you're on every major kind of news or discovery show or things like that. And it's not something you train for when you were 16 years old in high school. Yeah. It's something that God brought into your life. How did you end up? Well, let me ask you about home. Did you get support for these things? What was home life like? My current home life. No, your home life when you were growing up growing up. Oh, yeah. Yeah. My parents told me and my brother and they just go outside as a, you know, that type of parenting. It's outside and play, you know, have some adventure. So yeah, total support. You know, I played sports, you know, soccer. You're pretty much every sport actually. So I was at school. You have to play. Yeah, we need players. And when you have some, you know, athletes that kind of bubble up, it's like, hey, can you play as well? And so I was pretty spread in there. But again, I didn't have all the distractions and that was fulfilling to me. You know, we went to church here and there, but I wouldn't definitely wouldn't say I had a relationship with Jesus, you know, until my military years. And so did you go to school or go straight into military out of high school? Yeah, it was a year after. So yeah, so I, and that's because I, I at least had a guarantee to attempt to be go through the rescue swimmer program and the time slot was like in February. Okay. So you had a time slot to at least attempt it for people who haven't seen this. And it's, it's actually kind of sort of been portrayed in a couple of different movies. But man, this stuff, US Navy Air Rescue, which is basically the same as you guys are the combat search and rescue guys. And this is high level training. I mean, this is where you have to be on the edge of drowning in training to be able to be ready and not panic when that moment comes where somebody tries to grab you when you're rescuing them. I mean, that's, that's an amazing thing. How did you end up wanting to go after that? Well, I was actually, I wanted to go into be a seal. Maybe a seal, but I wanted to use rescue swimmer training to, to then use that as training to kind of build for the next step. So went, went through that, took the end test for seal training, but it was kind of, they have up sizing, downsizing of the military. And it was right after the first skull floor, you know, it was back to downsizing. So I had to fulfill my, my five years, ended up doing six as a rescue swimmer before I could attempt seal training. But at that time, I was ready to bounce. Yeah, I moved something else, but man, I mean, what in it's in your book, some of it in blind descent, it's remarkable training. Having grown up on the West Coast, Santa Cruz, knowing the power of waves and water and like, dude, some of those rivers that you grew up around or class four, class five stuff, it can kill you. And so easily. And so you're in the middle of that trying to rescue somebody who's panicked. What was the most difficult rescue attempt you ever had? Yeah, I mean, our training is very intense, you know, it's 50 plus percent attrition. So they put us through every, every scenario you can imagine. Passing out underwater is not a bad thing because that shows that you're willing to go the distance. But, you know, if you're passing out every time that's probably not a good thing either, situational awareness and, you know, self-awareness. Because if you're dead, it's, it's no good. But like you said, a survivor is they're panicked. And I would say what we did in the military is we are, you know, the best of the best in handling panic because when everyone else is, you know, grounded like aircraft, we're the ones flying, you know, the helicopter out to rescue and, you know, when seals need to tell up or whatever else, we'd go into pick them up. One of my, the best rescues, like top of mind for me was actually while I was on leave, I was back in Southern Oregon. I was fishing with my brother in like no, like way, I'll know, like no one's around. Next thing in the huge river, the rapids like you're saying, I see three heads bobbing on the far side. Oh my god. And I, I dropped my pole. I'm in the water. What had happened? There was a little girl, like five years old. She got too close to the water. It swept her away. The mom jumped in. So a little girl can't swim. Mom jumps in. She can't swim. And then there was this like seven-year-old retired fireman jumped in and all of them struggling. So I, I jump in, rescue all three. I'm taking care of the fireman who's having some heart issues after it was kind of chaotic. And I look over my brother still, really, and is pulling. That was the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life. And so it all happened really quick, but it's amazing. God just places you in these, you know, you have these abilities, you know, super well-trained. And it's just, it was just moments and just, you know, I'm going to be there. I'm sure your brother's never heard the end of that one. Now, like, hey, wait, wait, wait, be there, bro. So he's lying in the water. Dude, that, that is stunning. I mean, that, I mean, think about that. These people, and I know rivers and, and rapids and stuff. And it's not even just the coldness of it. It's, you're going to hit a rock. It's going to knock you out and you're dead. Yeah. And it happens really quick. Yep. Under towel. Take you under and you get behind the water. Getting one of those, what are they called, the hydraulics? Yeah. Good, Jenny. And you're stuck underneath and you can't get out. Now, if you don't know what to do, and sometimes when you do know what to do, man, well, thank God for that. Some amazing deals. So now you come out of that and you're into mountain, and how did you get into mountain area? So my wife and I, we got married in 2001 down in San Diego where I was stationed. I got out, worked for a year at Space Naval Warfare and decided to go to grad school. So the two of us moved up to the Pacific Northwest. And she got her masters in social work. She's a Christian counselor now. And I got my MBA and just working in high-tech, Expedia for five years, Cisco for years. You know, we're immersed in the mountains here and it kind of unlocked, you know, something that, you know, I loved and kind of used my military experience and took it to the next level and decided to climb the highest peaks on the seven continents. And that's the, what do they call it? The seven peak challenge or something like that? Yeah, I think all lots of different things. I just call it the seven summits. Seven summits. And those are which ones? So Everest being the highest, right? Kilimanjaro in Africa. It's Africa. Mount Everest. And it's in Europe, it's in Russia. And my wife actually went up to High Camp on that one with me. That was cool. Now wait a minute. Okay, wait a minute. In the book, Joanna, your wife is great of heights. Yeah. This is hilarious, man. So of course, she marries a guy who loves, you know, you know, I mean, a lot of your climbing is exposed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We couldn't be more opposite. I mean, if you put a spreadsheet opposite, it would be really odd if one thing aligned. And it's crazy because we, we work. We're like this healthy balance. And we're just aware of it. You know, maybe that's her, her counseling or what? But Well, maybe it was wisdom for her to get an MSW. You know, in order to be married to a guy whose hobby people die from. Have you died in a car crash? I know. That's what there's been. There's been, there are. And this is tragic. Sadly, there's over 100 bodies still on Everest. It's too dangerous to get them off. And over 300 people have passed away attempting that. And that's just since Hillary, right? And his time, that doesn't count the guys that, you know, there's some talk about maybe there were a couple other people that I'm sure somebody before him. So this is crazy. Talking to Brian Dickinson, the book is blind decent. And it's about being, and we don't have to go through all seven, but different peaks. But the fact is, is you have climbed the seven tallest peaks on every continent, the tallest peaks on every continent. Yeah. Well, so the one that's still, I haven't stood on top as Denali. I've been on it three times, snowboarded at once. But I've been within a thousand feet. I've seen the top, but it was just too dangerous. And sometimes it's a good data survive. And, you know, come back and climb another day. So, and that's, that's been a, that's been my own personal story too. Because, you know, sometimes you can keep hammering after it. But does it matter to stand on top? You know, it's a goal. And it's something to go after. But, you know, if I don't ever get on top of Denali, that's, I think I, I could live with that. Yeah, I've seen Denali from a couple different angles. It, I remember coming driving up out of, we were going fishing on, on Willow Creek. We were going to float in for a couple days. And we're coming over this, no, this is a little ridge. And, you know, the way that trees are cut on both sides in the mountain. And the road was pointed right at Denali. And it was clear. It was unusual. Yeah, that is here. With sunshine, you know, I'm like, it was one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. Yeah, it's a, it's a cool mountain. It's, it's a lot of work. It's, it's longer than like, as far as start to finish than Everest. And you carry 100 plus pounds, you carry some in the sled, some in your pack. So yeah, it's, and it's dangerous. The weather's just pretty nutty. But I've been up there. I've seen the top. In fact, the, the day before my first attempt, because we were pinned down at high camp at 17,000 for a week, a guy tried to solo up. He got launched off the top and they still haven't found him. They had to see 130's with the infrared, you know, trying to find them. We went up search and forearm. And then, you know, the weather pushed us back. So, well, you have a real tongue in cheek joke. It's in the book, but I've, I've heard men talk about it who have climbed. And it's this, if I'm not mistaken, I don't know all the terms. But it seems me it's that last saddle before the summit. And if I'm not mistaken, you described it as between two to four feet wide. Yeah, yeah. And it's two miles to, to bet on one side. And two miles to Nepal on the other side, basically straight. And nothing's going to stop you. No, it's, it's pretty much game over. And the dark humor, the dark humor is you can choose which country you die in. That would be an interesting way to go though. Like if you're going to go, like a two mile drop. Well, thank you too much about that. So, uh, so now you came to, you really came to obviously on the mountain and people have to read the book because we're not going to be able to recover all this. This is, and it's incredibly well written, Brian. And I know you skipped the organizations and stuff. And I know we talk about books and guys go, I don't know if I read, dude, I'm telling you, if you, if you open, if you crack this open, you will not be able to stop eating it. Hey, this is Chris. 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That's the Christian men's network at cmn.min. It will help us continue to reach the lives of many men around the world. If you would like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and subscribe to this podcast and share it. That's the Christian men's network in Paul Lewis Cole. Now let's get back to this powerful interview between Paul and Brian Dickinson. It is a gripping story and it gives a lot of your background, but where did you come to faith in Christ? Where did that happen? You said it was in the military. Yeah, I mean, my I grew up going to church on holidays, you know, Lutheran, but it wasn't really until it's funny because in boot camp on Sundays, you have the option of like working out or doing whatever jobs or going to church and the church is packed, right? So there I was. And you never know like that's, you know, getting fertilized, the seed that was planted, but honestly, it wasn't really, you know, I had a close friend or have a close friend who was served with me in the military and you know, we had good conversations and it was just part of this process, but it was really when I met my wife and you know, we're in our early 20s, dated for six years before getting married, just had a lot of grown up to do her dad passed away like, right, when we met. And the one thing, like I said, we are completely opposite. Like I'm not joking. The one thing was a small Southern Baptist church in San Diego. It was near like where we both had lived in the complex that we both lived and we would fight all week and then we'd go to church. And you know, it was we were the youngest people by probably 40 years in that church. In fact, the pastor even asked us like, why are you here? Oh, there's a college church like we love that you're here, but you know, but it was there's something about it and it just kind of got us there and you know, just accepted Jesus in my heart throughout that time and you know, it's it's always a, we're always learning, you know, we're always growing and it wasn't really until Everest where it really solidified the fact that I was still trying to do things on my own and I needed to stop and release that. So let's let's go there. So, Paesong is a friend of yours. He's a Sherpa and and had submitted two or three times before this. Great. So he's a this guy's an expert and the thing about about you that you just mentioned, you had been up on Denali within a thousand feet. See, my first 14 or like in Colorado, I went over the buddy and he is smart. He's a smart climber. Me, I just wanted to sum it, okay. So we get up there and he's cloud start coming in and hail start. It's middle of July. Hail starts coming down. Now, I've been around amounts most of my life, but I'd never really studied the fact that the vast majority of people who die in the mountains in the summers because of lightning. Okay. So, I don't know, but my buddy knows that Bob and he goes, hey, we need we should be under this rock and we should go back and I said, dude, I can see the top. That's right there. It's right there. He goes, not how we should go back. And so this cloud goes over. We can see another one in the distance. We're in the Sam Wands Southern Colorado. So, so I go, dude, I can make that. I can make that and back. So now he goes. He's like, all right, just go. He said, but I'm staying under here, but I'll watch you. Okay. So I head up and it's got kind of a rolling summit and there may have been a higher spot just beyond where it was. But he yells at me. He goes, that's the top right there. That's the summit. And headed back down. Man, this is, this is nothing to play with. And that's at 14,000, which is, I mean, you still got a ton of watches in. Yeah, but 14, sometimes those are so accessible that it gets people in the tree. Yeah, no, not on like Mount Hood and any other because it's right there in Portland. But yeah, the other part is like you said, lightning, you're so exposed, nowhere to hide. And you have metal conductors all over you. So, right, carabiners and your hat and just everything, maybe your teeth, my teeth. And now, okay. So you guys are climbing. And my point was on this thing is, when you said you were a thousand feet from the summit and done alley and you said it's too dangerous. There's a point at which you have to make a decision. Now you've got less oxygen, but based on your training and being able to, if you will, dial inside yourself and go, okay, I have two children, a wife, people who depend on me, I need to turn back. Passong gets sick. It's like a stomach thing or something, right? Yeah. As you guys are climbing, now you're already in what, and this is an unbelievable term. It's called the death zone. And that's what 26,000 feet above. So now at this point, when we would take normally, if I'm climbing, you know, 10,000 feet, I take one step, then another step. You take one step, pause two steps and then take another step. It's, it's that, you know, it's that, it's got, you need that much energy just to take a step, right? Yeah, slow motion. Now, Passong is, he says at 20, what was he at 28,000? 28,000? Yes. He says, man, I just, he tried to make it, tried to go with you, and you're feeling strong. This is about probably, must be about four o'clock in the morning, right? Yeah, maybe that's something like that. So, and you're feeling strong and you're like, dude, I can make this, right? Yeah. And, and so tell me about the conversation with Passong. Yeah, no, it's, it's tough because you, you've been there. You, you live and die by those decisions in a lot of times you got to get out of your own head because you put a lot into it. Yeah, of course, you want to stand on top of something, but you also have to have the, the right mindset of safety. So, in that time, in slow motion, think about how am I doing? I'm doing fine. How's the weather? Weather was fine at that point. But most importantly, how is Passong? So we have that conversation. He assures me. No, I'm, I'm good. In fact, I'm going to wait right here. Here's an extra oxygen bottle. Why don't you head up? And then you'll be back. We'll go down together and don't overthink it. If I had known I was going to go snow blind, it would have been a different conversation. Of course, I don't myself, but, you know, I don't know these things. So, but Brian, you know, as a, as a brother, okay, this is a brotherhood moment. If he had said, dude, I'm hurting. I don't know if I can make it back to camp. You would have turned around with him. I would have, in fact, earlier, I tried to with him at the balcony when he came because I got an hour ahead of him. He wasn't feeling well. I'm like, okay, do we need to head down? And he's like, no, no, no, and he took some of my water and got sick. And then I'm like, no, seriously, we need to go. He's like, no, no, we can go. So I'm like, okay, this guy, you know, he's has more experience than me. Yeah, yeah. So it's, yeah. And that's tough conversations. That's, that's life and death stuff. But because if things didn't turn out how they did, I would hate for him to go through life, knowing that, you know, he could have saved me or vice versa. Like if he, you know, he decided to head back down, sit away. I mean, it's all these what if scenarios and just super blessed that the outcome is what it is, but can't help but think of the others. So the day before this, you had dropped, and there's a bunch of stuff in the book. I'm not going to go through everything because everybody needs to read it. But the crux of it is, it's no blind thing. You had dropped your goggles a day before. Yeah, I was climbing up above camp three. So camp three is anchored on a ice wall, halfway up, Lotsay face, which is the first ice wall right now. I'm just, I'm done. I'm not going the whole way. Yeah. So Lotsay is the fourth highest mountain in the world. Do you actually climb up Lotsay to get to the highest camp in the world at the South Pole? Wow. So I was, I was heading up that, you know, we had 70 mile an hour wind gusts pushing us back. I got about a thousand feet above camp three, and I stopped to get some water. So I anchored off, you know, on the wall, and I'd to take my goggles off, wrap it around my arm, and then to take my oxygen mask so I could actually get the water. When my foot slipped out, and as I went to grab the rope, which I was anchored to anyways, but just reaction, my goggles slip, slip off my arm and downloads the face. So fortunately, Sherpas were like 500 feet down below going to a higher camp three. They're waving at me because I thought, I'm done. Like I, I need goggles. Sunglasses don't really work with oxygen. They're waving at me. The goggles went right to them. So I repelled down to them, got the goggles, and that's when I saw that they were cracked. So goggles, if people have never worn goggles, skiing or something like that, they have two layers. And each of these layers, the outer layers reflective in the inner layer has a different slight composition in order for you to be able to see well. Right. And the inner, the inner goggle had, had broken cracked. The inner dead. Yeah, and the problem was I probably could have dealt with them. But as you know, the contrast of the cold outside and your warm breath, it freezes normal goggles and you can scrape them out. Well, mine were freezing in between layers in between. Wow. Yeah. So I ended up just ripping those internal lenses out. So now you're on the top of Mount Everest. You turn to go down and all of a sudden, snow blindness hits and snow blindness, explain that to me because when I think of blindness, I think of closing my eyes and everything becomes dark. Right. And it's a total opposite. So the sun burning of the cornea is it makes everything bright white. So if you had to put a light bulb within an inch of your face, that's snow blindness. You cannot see a thing. You can put your finger in front of it and you'll know a shadow moved. But that's it. You cannot focus on anything. And it's it's really painful. It's like if you break potato chips and put them in your eyelids. So I definitely don't recommend it. You know, well, for me, it's it's basically if you wipe out on a big wave and you know, sand bottom and you hit the bottom, you get all this stuff in your eyes. And it burns and it it feels like sandpaper and so that's what your eyes felt like. Yeah, it's it's interesting because it's super painful, but that was not my focus. I didn't know focus ironic, but it was just the fact of just hand over hand using my senses, trying to use my eyes. They just wouldn't work. So it's probably damaging a more and more as I was heading down. But I just never focused so much on the pain until later. Hmm. I noticed you you talk about in your book. You talk about as you take these steps up. And I'm sure it happened at times on the way down, trying to do it in a regular motion. You were almost like a mantra. You were repeating the names of your wife and children. Yeah. Emily Jordan Joanna. Yeah. Yeah. Emily Jordan Joanna. Step. It's an amazing thing. Now tell me about this this moment though. Now there's one part where you yell out and it's incredible. This book is really great. And one part where you yell out, I will not die on this mountain. Yeah. Yeah, I was right after I took the fall and I found an oxygen bottle that a song had left, but it failed. Like I was fumbling at the regulator. It just wouldn't work. So for whatever reason, I put that extra 15 pounds in my pack and continued moving. And just frustration was creeping in at that point. It's like everything going wrong, wrong, wrong. And I just kind of lost it and just screened that out. And I remember just that emotion. It went against everything in my training of controlling my breathing, not panicking. I was probably that that moment where my heart just started racing because it just, you know, it just, I don't know, just gave the devil a foothold in that moment. And I had to just, I recognized what my body was going through and I just stopped and just started breathing and pushed it, compartmentalized that emotion and then started moving again. And when you talked about earlier in our conversation, Brian, you talked about the solidification of your faith in God at that moment because it was at that point, you just had to pray, God, it's all you. Yeah, when I ran out of oxygen. So right after the balcony, I, I went about maybe 20 feet in my mask, just start sucking into my face. So I ran out of oxygen. And I'm just ripping it off at that moment and just dropping to my knees and just saying, God, I can't do this alone. Please help. And the powerful thing beyond what happens next is our world. Joanna felt the urge to pray for me, my best friend and two. Same time, people reached out that I didn't even know that knew that I was climbing and said, I don't know why I felt prompted to lift you up. It's amazing. Yeah. Your wife woke up in the middle of the night, right? Yeah. praying for you. That happened to me once I was on a plane that the three engine blew up, a little private plane over Texas. Obviously we live, but my wife woke up at that exact moment and just began praying for me. It's like, you know, you know, I travel a lot, you travel. Your wife doesn't always wake up in the middle of night praying for you. But at this moment, she knew something was going on. Man, that is the Holy Spirit. That's the power of God. And and then you had a couple of other friends who were looking for you, Brian and another brother. And then Paesong had to go down because he was really hurting. And everybody started going, wait a minute, because you should have been down in what you should have been down to the highest camp from the summit in about three hours. Is that right? Right. Took me seven and took you seven hours. So now every minute, you're in the death zone. I'm glad I don't have any hobbies where people go, yeah, we're going into the mountain bike riding. We're about to get off the lift at purgatory and go into the death zone. It doesn't happen. So you know, that's a stunning thing. But at that point is where you prayed. And it's if you will, everything sort of dialed in in your faith. It was it was almost immediately. Just I said that prayer very simple. I cannot do this alone. And I just I felt like it felt like someone picked me up like I reached on my back and my down suit lifted me to my feet. And I just I had this life. And the first thing I did was fumble for that oxygen bottle that previously failed out the regulator on and I got a positive flow. And I remember just taking five deep breaths in just the pain, the pain of air, life reentering. It was like fire through my veins. And not overthinking it. I just put all my gear together and started heading down just as cautiously as I could as fast as I could, which is still really slow in the death zone. But I just had this renewed life. You know, Brian, thanks for taking the time with us, man. This this story, I mean, I can't wait, you know, the book is called Blind Decent, D-E-S-C-E-N-T for those of us who didn't get past 8th grade. And actually, Decent is an 8th grade. You should have been able to get that. But alone and blind at 29,000 feet and it's an amazing story, Brian. And then the Lord has out of this, God has put you on the largest platforms in the world to be able to be a follower of Christ in front of other people. Not just necessarily the wave of Bible and preach, but to be Scripture in front of other people. Yeah, it's very humbling. I mean, I'd say I'm more comfortable not doing that. I'm more comfortable like in mountains, like I have control over that. You know, it's it's a, you know, social gatherings and talking on stage, everything else. That's not it. It's not anything I signed up for. I never thought I'd be an author or anything, but it's amazing when God picks you up in the death zone and says, I have plans for you. Wow. Man, I think that's, I mean, that's a that's a message right there. When God picks you up in the death zone. Do that's strong, man. Literally. Yeah, no, this is literally. And so, man, we pray blessings on you in Joanna. Brian, everything you do pray that it prospers and everything your hands touch will be blessed by God. And God will keep you and your family deep within the grip of his favor and grace. And and and God will give you wisdom because you got teenage kids. Yeah. Right. So God will give you wisdom. And that's your is your son or daughter climb? They probably have a more impressive portfolio than most adults. We do a lot of stuff together. They did the last of the summits with me down in Australia when they were like five and eight. So not a huge one, but you know, it's still five miles like six, seven thousand feet. That's fantastic, man. Yeah. In fact, the favorite thing each year. In fact, we did it just a month or so ago is to do winter mountaineering. So we'll go up on Mount Rainier or just out way away from anyone and again to the snow and I'll live there and just go through some training and they love it. So you'll overnight in some ice caves or what do you do? No, we'll do a tent. Do a tent. Okay. Yeah, maybe build a snow cave or something, but you know, just go through training. Yeah. Lance training of, you know, avoidance and awareness and just all the winter mountaineering stuff. Yeah. It's a blast. Yeah. I'm telling you, Brian, this story for me as a man and influencing other men is we have got to prepare ourselves for the difficult moments. If, I mean, if this goes way back to probably when you were in high school, the saving your life 17 years later on the top of Mount Everest goes back to all that training. Yeah. Right. And the presence of God in the middle of that, man. Yeah, fantastic stuff, Brian. Thanks for taking the time to be with us. I'm brave, man. Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me. Paul, if you had one thing that marked you as a better man out of this conversation, what would you be? Dude, if I ever climb anything, I'm going to go with Brian. Shoot. You know, I'll tell you what, being ready, you know, the fact that these things happen to him and that he was, he's like a professional with this, right? Yeah. He's the best in the world at these things. But if he hadn't prepared himself, and I think that's what I would, my takeaway, Chris, good question. My takeaway is that I need to prepare myself for things that haven't yet happened. So good, right? So what could happen? Well, this could happen. It's little things like, you know, like knowing how to change a tire on a car. I don't know. Did I just get personal? Is that a gel? You just get personal? Bro, come on, man. So, you know, but it's like, it's having things in order so that when stuff happens, you're the guy that people can look to. Yeah. It's intestinal fortitude knowing how to keep your head in the midst of problems. I heard a comedian. I'm not recommending this guy because he's a little crude, but dude, he started talking about he was in a plane. It was shaking. And, and he said two rows behind him. He said, this guy started going, oh, you know, screaming like, like they're going to crash or something. And he turns around. It's a guy. He's like, dude, dudes don't make that noise. You don't do that. He's like, he says, he says, push it down. Push it down. Don't. Wow. So, you know, do some man stuff. Think of a solution. Yeah. Think of, you know, and it's funny only in the sense of, uh, we need to be. And I know I want to be in every man listening to us right now wants to be the man who helps create order out of chaos, who helps bring solutions in the middle of a disaster. Yeah. Who people can look at and say, bro, you, I know you can lead us out of here. So good. You know, like it, like if you were there Chris and another guy and you go, okay, you guys, I know you guys can make this thing happen. Yeah. Right. You want everybody wants to be that man. Yes. So how do you get to be that man? You'd prepare for it ahead of time. Yeah. And you put yourself around people of experience. Come on. That's what this guy did. Yeah. It's humbling. Exactly. You know, it's like you are, there, if you're, I love that old saying of how they used to say, if you're the smartest man in that room, you're in the wrong room. Yeah. You know, well, there's no question about that. Yeah. And it's like often times we love to be in the room where we're the smartest person in the room because it makes us feel comfortable. But I, my dad taught me how to live in uncomfortable. Yeah. For example, like when I've heard people Chris, why do you communicate the way that you do? Well, because when I was about five years old and my dad was like, well, you can speak. Okay. Now here's your turn to speak on the microphone. And it's like, what do you do when you're in front of hundreds of people? And you didn't even know you were about to speak. The next time you're going to have something to say. Yeah, you better be ready. Yeah. And that's the thing. No matter what the situation be ready, and it's called building character. Exactly. Because character always comes to the front. Yes. Okay. Even when talent, when talent will fail you character will sustain you. Yes. And now I should put that in the book. You should. Yeah. And hey, thanks for being with us today on Brave Men. We're our passionate about helping men become stronger men and helping you become a man that others can depend on. That's why we have these books, materials, study guides. That's why we achieve lab with over 450 hours of curated content, cmn.men. If you're a pastor or men's leader, we've got the cmn masterclass on called foundations. And that's majoring in men.com majoring in men.com. That's 12 weeks of an intensive. You can do it in 12 hours if you want. You know, just nail it over two day period. It's 12, 20 minute sessions. And it talks about how do you build a vibrant reproducing men's movement in your church or or synagogue or parish wherever you may be. And so this works. It's all in English right now. But our books and materials aren't English and Spanish. We also have audio books that are awesome. Yes. We've got five books on audio now. And actually 11 total with the Spanish. Yep. Right. Yep. 11 total with the Spanish. And so we've got those books on audio, audible.com, go and cmn.men. You can find those things. We're passionate about helping you become the man you desire to be. Yes. The man you were designed to be. And the man that the world around you needs to be. Thanks for being with us today on. Did you have another thing? I stopped you. I stopped you on that thing. I was just going to mention global summit because we were just talking about how you know, you need to be in the room and not be the smartest person in your room. Yeah. And that's why we do global summit. We have some of the greatest groups. I am never the smartest man in that room. Tell you what, man, we have some of most amazing men I've ever met in my life. Come speak at the Lion's World Global Summit. We're doing live in person. Yes. We're in Texas, the free Republic of Texas. Yeah. And I've heard a rumor that it's going to be the best one yet. It's going to be the best one. Yeah. It's going to be fantastic. So that's November 4, 5 and 6th this year, 2021. We're listening to it this year. That create church pastor Ryan Bankley. Yes. That thing's going to be killer, man. Yes. Now we've got limited seating. That's one of the things with the COVID something whatever we do have limited seating. I mean, we all have an online component that you can pay for. But man, there's nothing like being there in person, bro. It's not you will definitely leave change. If I had just met my wife over Zoom, you know what I mean? It's like being there or changing everything. Yeah. So do yourself a favor and be there. Be there, but even going your calendar right now. Yeah. Just block that out. I was talking to a friend just the other day, Paul. And I said, hey, bro, you know, I know you're trying to grow your church. Yeah. This is the key. You need to be at our global summit. Yeah. Go ahead. And he stopped what he was doing, Paul. And he marked off. Yeah, listen to you. Yeah, he stopped and he marked his count. He's okay. Should have taken a selfie at that point. Yeah, he's got to listen to me. Well, humble. So, uh, so the fact is, man, that thing's not just it's not just a, it's not a conference. I hate going to conferences. Yeah. They're just like preach of thorns or whatever. You know, kind of stuff. This is equipping and large inspiring. We have a lot of white space. You're going to be able to just move around a lot of a lot of like place. You can just meet guys, you know, so it's not just bam, bam, bam. No, it's an importation. It's an importation. You catch something when you're at the glue summit. Yeah, there's some question. And a good thing. The Holy Spirit. See him in doubt, man. See him in doubt, man. All right. Hey, thanks for being with us today and brave men. Thank you, Chris Shields and everybody who's been involved. And thank you to all of our sponsors who, uh, every single month step up to help us reach men all over the world because I believe every child deserves a loving dad. Remember, hope is alive. Hope has a name. Hope's name is Jesus. And I love my wife. I see you next time. You just experienced brave man with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian men's network. Connect with Paul at cmn.man or write to him at Paul at cmn.man.