BraveMen S3E87: Dr. Mark Chironna - On the Authentic Jesus

Dr. Marcherona is one of those men that enlarges my life and in this conversation today, you'll see why because he's not only Not only is he a learned guy. It's one of those things where he he knows how to Give us something that we can use in our everyday life So he takes the things he knows of he's a he's a theosimia edition He holds a doctorate in ministry and future studies in M.A. and psychologists of isn't author He's a pastor of a great church church on the living edge He's a certified coach all these different things post-grad researcher all these things But what he's able to do is take all of that and give me something I can use everyday and so I'm thrilled to have today on brave men Dr. Marcherona and You're going to love this and and and also please do this make sure you tell somebody about it hit the hit the little Thing where you subscribe to it and then also to our podcast a brave men podcast and then also at cmn.men Cm and christian men's network dot men. You'll find all the tools that you need for helping disciple men helping yourself building your family growing your own life You can see some of the Monday night men things we've done that are on YouTube and everything we do is to help grow strong men Strong families and strong churches Today on brave men. It's great to have Dr. Marcherona It's brave men with Paul Lewis Cole Wisdom and courage for the journey You're alive on Facebook with Dr. Marcherona and Mark with had a relationship for a number of years and One of the things that happens when you and I talk for me is my heart is more filled with faith I have this deeper sense of groundedness if you will and so at this Easter season is we have this conversation and I want no matter Because for me every day is Easter right? Sure every day is a celebration of of Resurrection life and his death on the cross and But but I wanted you to walk us through Jesus in his mission I'm captured by the the statements of St. John wrote when he said Jesus knowing his mission was completed It's pretty amazing statement said it is finished and so Dr. Marcherona is a noted author and Somewhat what the amateur senior Titian is that what you're telling me? I've got a doctorate in it. I don't know I know that's that's my point I got a bunch of letters that make it sound like I got something this day You said Lynn would be the guy and I'm like no, you're the guy too and Pastor church and living edge a brilliant high-energy High-impact church in Orlando, Florida and so Mark thank you for taking the time To be with you And talk about Jesus because especially as you and I are talking live here on Good Friday It's a remarkable time. What is it that stands out? There's so many different levels of Meanings on this what stands out to you personally right now for you and your wife Ruth You know, I think First and foremost that I'm reminded of Athanasius Famous quote he became as we are That we might become as he is That that in giving himself for the life of the world this Act of sacrificial Love this self emptying of himself in love for us um You know, I I find myself the older I get the more hello. I get I'm a pretty intense Italian. I have You know, I God got a hold of a dysfunctional Italian from New York and it's taken You know almost 48 years for me to admit that I'm dysfunctional And you know Wait a minute, but you still dress intensely Yeah, I do that They can't To cast that devil out of me. They can't do that one. They just But I'll have the Lord deal with that when I get home. He's gonna judge me based I think I'm gonna be a whole lot more of that than than we think when we get to have Yeah, lots of stuff's gonna burn up. I know and she wrote in stanza. Oh Lord. I'm just glad I'm saved, you know Um, but you know, I I think what I when we think about Christ at the cross is it's good Friday. We think about Him totally identifying with us in our humanness that The way God shows us. He loves us as he becomes truly and fully human and the ultimate expression Of humanness is this Self sacrificial love that he gives himself For us he does die for our sins, but he he does more than that he gives himself For us and for our totality and uh I you know, I don't I don't know that we can fully appreciate that in our youthful zeal But you know the longer we live and walk with him and his love um To realize how big those three words are it is finished I they they they boggle my mind more today than they did 48 years ago You know Yeah, there's it is finished, you know, and it's uh Fascinating is you and I were discussing a few moments ago. We both Jumped on that word today and our devotional so that we did Online to tell us die Which is it is finished it it means the thing that jumped out of me about the meaning of that word to tell us Like because it's a Greek originated word that the Hebrews used in their language the Jewish people And the thing the one thing that jumped out at me is that The debt was paid It's a word that means they would stamp it on a let's say you had a contract and you were paying off something When it was paid off they would stamp it to tell us die It didn't mean your debt is canceled It meant your debt is paid tell me the difference in that how how you know It's one thing to cancel a debt. It's another thing to assume that debt so that When your debt is can't if if my debt is canceled that's that's certainly a A great relief, but if my debt is assumed Hmm fully it means that this is not something you can just cancel out. This has to be reckoned with there's something here That is unavoidably the consequence of my profound alienation from God because of As Augustine spoke of original sin and originating sin the somehow We tend we might think well we wouldn't have done what Adam did when an actual fact we would have you know um, you know what what's interesting? You know, I it Paul the older I get the more I go back to the early church fathers I had been exposed to them certainly when I was in college and my undergraduate work and Double majored in music and and and in in religion. I had enough credits to double major in religion, but You know, I had to study barely fathers back then and um, but I've rediscovered them in the last decade or so and when when I think about the fact that they The way they contemplated the cross and the way they understood this self-sacrificial love of Jesus that um When we realize and and and here here's the thing it's not you know, the reformers talked about penal substitutionary atonement And it's not that he's not the propitiation for our sins But if we start from a tone and theory in the great reformation and ignore all the other ways in which The cross was looked at from the very beginning we missed the fact that yes, there's some judicial here Yeah, there's also something profoundly therapeutic because sin is both um The reality of my offenses and my transgressions and my rebellion But it's also profoundly Tied to something that is like a disease that has pervaded The totality of my being and I can't get rid of it. I can't I can't get rid of it. I can't disown it It has to be owned. It has to be expiated. It has to be assumed and so for the debt To be cancelled would be to say well, it really didn't matter, but it really did matter It really mattered enough for God to say I've got since you can't take care of this In my love I will assume this for you on your behalf. I'll carry your debt Yeah You know that that's really strong and and you know that whole piece you know if it's if it's just a ton of it No, we're saying it's is so much more than that Well, yeah, and yeah, I mean there are about eight theories of atonement. I you know the argument is that that You know, there's not just one theory of atonement Paul never set out to Now I realize my reform friends are gonna give me some backlash for this, but that's okay It's part of the fun of healthy debate I think there's something to be said for looking at The atonement in a much larger way than simply reducing it to the judicial aspect of it Because Christ gave himself I don't think we fully grasp Christ gave himself God when we say for God so love the world that word so there so love the world. No, that's that's loveboat No, God so love the world God the so loving is that God gave himself in Christ It's in this manner that God loved the world that Christ assumed the totality of our humanity in all of its frailty weakness and there at the cross he takes on our brokenness and the violence that entered into the human race because of sin And allows all that to be assumed in his person so that we could become Who we were intended to be so what isn't assumed can't be redeemed Why? So that he assumes it all so that we can be fully redeemed from it all Yeah, see if it's just atonement to me there's if you if we're not careful It can become a Transaction yeah, where there's no intimacy no sense of you know, he did this for me. He's a judge But he's the lover of my soul. Yeah, no one who loves me gave himself This is how he so loved me. He says I will assume this For you. I will assume this as you and then I will give my life to you Hmm, I mean, it's it's mind-boggling. No, it's not just transactional. It's incarnational. Absolutely. Totally. That's that's that's the word That's it. Yeah, so this is the same God who wrote song of Solomon Right So to me when Jesus prayed our father Marked to me he and he wasn't just uh here's Here's what our relationship is As as Paul wrote you have many 10,000 instructors not many fathers. He's our father But Jesus invited us into and open to us His his joint his airship exactly His life yeah, we receive communion the third cup and all of those things to go with it author What would have happened on Thursday with his disciples to me? I always look at the the bread His broken body is my past and the blood His life flowing blood as my future Wow, this my little my little I need visuals, you know What are these things mean and here's my broken past I take that first And now over my broken past I pour the blood of my of life for the future Just those two things and then to me then that whole The whole communion time Whatever whatever however you want to style and call it to me it then becomes like very personal My past my future And so when he says do this in remembrance of me now Connect the dots to the thief on the cross that says remember me wow There's this now there is the one way of looking at that text, you know, remember the opposite of dismember which Remembering the the brilliant theologian Barbara Brown Taylor did a series on that years ago and wrote a book on it But the other part of that is has to do I think with um The memory of God That here's a thief Who has spent his whole life taking from others because he has nothing he can see that is from himself that is worthwhile So he has basically in being identified as a thief this is a taker who thinks he's entitled to take what doesn't belong to him because he's lacking something in himself And here at the end of his life This thief who starts out mocking Jesus according to one of the synoptics By the by the by noon he begins to rebuke his friend and saying hey wait a minute You know, we're accusing him and he's done nothing wrong. So something has changed in him while he is present to the one in the middle who is dying For him and giving himself for him and he like a disciple who rebukes another disciple for saying something in appropriate He says we've done wrong. He's done no wrong. So the spirits already at work within him And he he doesn't say remember me when you come into the kingdom He says he says you have a kingdom. I know you're a king And he says I recognize you really are the king of the Jews and he said he said I just asked you Don't remember me based on me being a thief and a taker and a stealer Somewhere in the remembrance of God whatever I was supposed to be I'll die content if you'll just remember who I was supposed to be And not who I've become and Jesus said I'll go one further today Today since you hear his voice and your heart has been softened Today you'll be with me in paradise because wherever I am is paradise and so The remembering and I think for us Paul I think a lot of time look I am the older I get the more I am aware that I am both a sinner and a saint at the same time I I know it's not popular because we want to brag about how we're saints and everything But you know one of the prayers I have prayed From the time I was 19 that that has followed me and deep in my appreciation for God's grace is Lord Jesus son of David have mercy on me and I pray it more today than I did 48 years ago You know I'm aware of how Many areas in my life are full far short of his glory. Yeah, and so I need him to remember me for who I really am And not for all the dysfunctional things in my sin that get in the way of not only others Seeing who he is in me, but even me knowing away Yeah, it's definitions comes back to definition It's it's I'm not defined by the things I started with I'm defined by the fact I'm a passionate pursuer of the pleasure of his presence Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what defiles You know when we talk about these things that I you know For men talking to men. I liken it to this you know you you get the vacuum cleaner out You go in and you vacuum Your wife comes home says what did you do? So I vacuumed She says well, thank you and then she walks into the same room turns the light on And now we see what we missed And it's for me. It's the closer I get to the light the more I see the stuff. Oh, yeah Right. Yeah, wasn't it Paul Paul that started with You know his first writings were called to be an apostle Yeah, in his last writings where he described himself as a teacher center Yeah, and when you talk about remembering it, I just turned to Psalm 78 it reminded me of the men of Ephraim And it said on the day of battle the men of Ephraim turned back. They were says they were skilled warriors Right They were men of God. They knew what they were supposed to do. They were in the army of God It says in the day of battle the day of crisis. They turned around turn back and it says because they forged What God had done in our lives. They've forged the strength of God. They forgot the goodness of God And man remember me wow that That just jumped right there when you mentioned that you've you've been walking through a whole series of devotionals And people can find this Where they find is the marcherona.com or? Yeah, I mean every Friday on Instagram. I or on Twitter that we posted. I do I do a weekly reading from the the revised common electionary You know, I like the electionary for many reasons Our church has followed the lectionary from the days we were in Raleigh It's so you the lectionary if you follow the three-year lectionary Over the course of every three hundred sixty-five days within three years you read the entire Bible Right, and and the way the lectionary is laid out all four readings um Dovetail in some way so the mystery is learning how to figure out how The this the the fathers of the church and the mothers of the church saw all these as connecting the dots And so sometimes it's like you got to be like like Colombo you got to figure out how do these verses relate? But it's so you really take one of the four and I just do a little 10 to 12-minute missive on it Yeah, cuz we're in year b is that right? Yeah, it's year b and so and this is something a lot of us For me growing up in a Pentecostal Protestant background. I never celebrated lent uh Advent in that sense the the historical Right things of the church and in my son Brandon who passed her c3 church who you know passed her c3 church here and for worth A jumped in on it this year with advent and now with lent and You know, it has really been remarkable and then I've been listening to you and then also to learn sweet and uh just the The beauty of everything and really this comes back to this thing where good Friday actually is good Yeah They're one that when the pre high priest would come out and he would he would uh slay the lamb The sacrificial lamb and the day of atonement which would good Friday is Day of atonement in a Jewish counter and the high priest would come out it in mid-afternoon at the same time Jesus said it is finished he would come out and say to tell us thai Sacrifice been completed and people would shout like joyfully We remember we remember what Christ did for us in particular. It's a very uh heavy or weighty thing Which is honorable because honor means to give weight to something But there also has to be this this other side mark where we're Joy-filled absolutely right yeah mission is completed speak to me about that and about how lent points is towards that Okay, so in in the 40 days of lent the church historically Went on a journey of humility self-reflection repentance But the 40 days was reminiscent of Jesus 40 days of being tempted in the wilderness a reminiscent of the 40 years of The sons of Israel being humbled and tested to show him what was in their hearts 40 always the signifying the testing of man Yeah, testing transition this this this this space that we enter Where we discover parts of ourselves that need to be brought To light that we've got to own Mark of ourselves that we tend to ignore and The the culmination of lent in holy week is is is what happens On good Friday when Jesus at the cross begins with the first verse Of Psalm 22, you know, it's interesting Psalm 22 Is a Psalm of the exiles david prophetically is certainly speaking of Messiah But david also as a prophet is speaking before that of the exile in Babylon Psalm 22 was one of the most recited songs in Israel's history in second temple Judaism Because even though they came out of Babylon They came out under the oversight of the meadow Persian Empire so they still weren't free So essentially even though they're in their homeland They're still not home because they're governed by the meadow Persians then the meadow Persians are conquered by Alexander the great So now they're still not in their homeland free because the Greeks now rule it over the Jews and then They're conquered by Julius Caesar and so Roman rule now is quite oppressive And they're still not free. So they're still crying my god my god. Why have you forsaken me? So Jesus assumes the story of Israel and brings it to speech In a way where it can be heard before the father So they feel like they're not heard when we say why we feel like nobody's listening When Jesus assumes our humanity and he says why to the father It is heard with reverberating echoes to the point where the rocks split the earth shakes The veil is rent because he is the veil that is the separating point between the visible and when he is opened up Access to the father because Christ is a place in the father all by himself He's the new temple and we know so when you say our father I was thinking before the late Robert W. Jensen the great Lutheran theologian Change my life when I heard him say in a lecture He said hour is Jesus saying to us piggyback on me as I come into the father's presence So all of us piggyback on Jesus. So the first hour is Jesus saying you pray with me because I'm the chief Intercessor and high-president when you say hour I'm giving you my spirit so that you as an adopted son and daughter can say my father But you're saying with me our father. So the first hour is Jesus us picking back on Jesus And then it's all of us together piggyback. He's got a big back and we can all fit on it And so long we say our father. We're piggybacking on him. So let me let me clarify this Psalm 22 Begins with a scripture. Yes, as Eli Eli Sometimes back tonight. Okay My god my god why have you forsaken me and I was taught growing up uh Mark That that this was god turning his back on on god on that's impossible Yeah, exactly what dad would I so now if I'm going to pray our father And and this is the dad that in the moment of crisis turn his back on his son How are we going to trust him in my moment of crisis? Yeah Yeah, I think it's a fundamental misreading of what forsaken this is I think it's Jesus entering into our forsaken this wow and giving us a voice where we haven't had one He takes on himself and and collective humanity. He takes on our why you know A what question is usually pretty easy to answer How question is usually easy to answer a when question and a where question Usually are a pretty easy answer even if they're complicated you'll get to an answer But why is usually a question that ray is raised when something intolerable Something that defies our ability to find well-being Something that is very unaffirming you hear someone say why and they don't feel affirmed and here's Jesus taking on the spirit The demonic spirit that denies us and doesn't give us an affirmation and denies affirmation Jesus takes on that why for us That's forsakenness of the original sin and father hears it and says I hear that I've come down you know when God says I've come down Moses I've come down you go the ultimate coming down is when God takes on human flesh and he comes and says I'll take the why so that when I get to the end of Psalm 22 I can say it's done because the end of Psalm 22 is it is finished. He's done it Yeah, so he starts a song. I also look at it in his humanity with his mom there and other friends and He he starts a song of promise in order to remind them Here's what's happening because they would all know how to sing that so really what he did he started a song and Goodness that now here's here's until you just hit me with this. This is so good He took our why in order for us to know our why Exactly Yeah, we took our why in order for us to find our purpose Colossians 117 everything held together by him Galatians in him. I find my identity We come back to definition and and I know I may get in trouble for this too, but I'm in You know, Paul. I know you know, I not only do I have a degree in theology. I've got a degree in psychology Right when I studied psychology I I went to the seat of secular humanistic potential. I went to the the university where it all started I went to Sabreq where rollo may call Rogers and Abraham Maslow I've were honored because they were the the fathers of the third force movement the secular human potential movement And I studied the tenets of human the human potential movements from a secular perspective And as I wrestled with all those things intentionally to feel to to say how do I understand that worldview But then how do I understand their postulates in light of the gospel the one voice That has any right to speak to human potential in the universe is the one who on the hill where he delivered the sermon on the mountain Says to those that are distressed and downcast like sheep without a shepherd. He knows their sinners He knows they're broken. He knows they're fragmented. He knows they have rebelled against dog He says you are the light of the world If anybody has the right to speak to human potential it is Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior Who when Paul says I am crucified with Christ Nevertheless, I live yet not I but Christ lives in me and the life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me If I really unpack that the cross is not the mortification of my personality It is the death of egocentricity, but it is not the mortification of who I am essentially It is the liberation of my true to God self so I can be actualized in the potential of who marks Shirona is called to be the cross doesn't diminish me the cross enlarges me it is accomplished So taking up my cross daily is not a beat down. It's a lifting up Absolutely Well the cross is always the lifting up sure and the cross Christ is the throne of God Yeah, he is It's the old picture. He's the snake And there was lifted up and that's it's it's the picture of modern medicine. It's the symbolism Yeah, I remember I remember Robert Cook the The the the now deceased Robert A. Cook the the president of King's College He would say there's life for a look and it was always about the serpent on the cross About the look keep looking up keep looking up he would say and it was always I want to I want to We could here's the deal talking with you Mark and you and I have set over dinners and meals together and you know You never actually land it. We just decide we're done There's just there's so much and so I want to do that though for us The mission of Jesus carried forward In us right if we're the light of the world Tell me speak into that for me as a man or for us that are listening to this right now my mission going forward Out of this amazing fulcrum point of of uh of history What's what's my actual what's my life identity? What's my going forward and in Christ? What's that mean? How does how do I work that out? Okay, so the father sends the son and then immediately sends the spirit To endure us so that we can carry on We are the ongoing incarnation of Christ. We in Christ Len will say Christ isn't supposed to be imitated He's supposed to be personated that that he comes in in in our personhood So that we can give our selves to others and empty our lives Into others and I think for men Paul, I think we need to remember that There's a lot of Areas in our lives where we tend to be afraid to be real and well the the What what has benefited me most in my relationship with my brothers in Christ is when we've come to the place where We're willing in our pouring out to talk about our humaneness Yeah, and what it means you let me just tell this story like you remember better than I do the prophetic word I gave you when we first met you when we went to first met in collieville you remember that with detail I honestly don't remember the details. Here's what I remember a few weeks later. I'm back in Dallas. I'm at the embassy sweets and you show up in my room and When I tell you you're the first friend That I made that ever the first thing you wanted to do when you got into my room as we sat together in that living room in the suite He said mark. I want to pray for you Yeah, I mean I remember that is indelibly etched in my heart because at that point God really knitted you to me in a way I said my god. He's praying for me. He's he's praying for me And you know as a man we don't tend to think we need prayer. Oh, we don't ask for prayer We we don't want anybody who think we've got any problems and and so in a very disarming way As a man you were praying for your brother and that has left When I tell you Paul Cole has left an indelible impression on mark sureona that will take him all the way to eternity I'm not getting that memory Change the way I've viewed my manhood in terms of because I I've Honest I've prayed for people as a pastor, but never have I really offered to pray for one of my brothers in a It was just it was a defining moment from yeah It was a yeah, it was a great moment see the thing is the prophetic word you had For me I actually took and some people will remember cassettes but I took that it had that duplicated on a cassette for all my children And my entire family we all listened to that because at that time in our lives that word was a a ramal word It was a word of you don't even remember the details I've reminded you of the details and we've talked about them But but it was because it was a god thing as a god moment and that's I believe how we're supposed to be going forward as men I don't believe that every single moment we're going to know that this was a god connect right You know, I'm talking to a waitress at a restaurant I'm meeting a guy you know next door Talking to somebody in a park when we're walking you know our dogs whatever the case may be And it's not always it's gonna be oh man that was a moment But I believe that we carry a light so strong that every moment we do have that interacts with anybody else That god speaks to those people through our lives Yeah, I believe we're we're You know fully human Jesus But I also believe we're filled with his divinity. Oh, yeah, I'm amazing mysterious way Yeah, and that and that if you know and even in our worst days You know, it's it's amazing isn't it even at our darkest moments we can have a word for somebody else that sets an absolute That's a great life for them. So and he loves us on our worst day He does he does he's consistent and that's that's that's comforting I think for us as men we can really get down on ourselves About the whole Easter experience we come out of there and we go. Okay, great fantastic But I'm not that guy or I can't really walk that out. I can't really be that good Isn't expect us to be that good He just wants us to live in the fullness you said it before of who I am To become fully me and that uh Right there with defined success Because those worlds looking for success we talk about success, but success is to become fully I put it in in the book bartender. I put it this way Success is to fully satisfy my personal design. Yeah Become and I mean just think about I mean the whole book is about you know neomized I mean you start with neomized journey in that book The boldness that it took for him to go into the king's court with a with a with a a sullen face I mean he could have had his head chopped off But he had the courage to say all's not well in the kingdom until This part of my life gets sorted out because it's part of my history and I want to be able to See this change for the lives so man the man uh Needed a miracle, but he knew a king. Yeah, yeah Yeah, so do we and that's us yeah, it is us at you and me and that's us and that's our friends and uh We need his life and his intervention flowing through us and And we are not able to get things done in ourselves, but we know a king And uh, so um lord bless you on this time mark you and your beautiful wife Ruth and your uh and you've got uh If people do go to your instagram. It's uh What is it? Is it marks your own a doc marks your own at marks your owner at marks your own a ma rk ch i Two ends I have marks your own a the dot com and then uh on the instagram and on your instagram every so often Few times a week maybe your shots of your grandkids. So yeah, I can't help it Which is which is part of living to this stage of life. Oh gosh Yeah, I mean they just they're my joy Yeah, you're awesome And then I follow your son mr drums too, so yeah So it's like the stuff on there anyway, blessings you and your family and we pray everything your hands touch A doctor sureona will be blessed and that god will keep you deep within the grip of his grace and love In Jesus and and Paul for you again at you and and Jewel Julie Judy and and the family I pray that you have a blessed Easter. I also Want to thank you for what you've done with your dad's legacy. Yeah um You're gonna go around and buy a great cloud of witnesses. So I know there's uh There's a major intercessor that's tag teaming with Jesus for you and the fruit of it Is I probably he just stands amazed at how far reaching. Oh, I hope so taken this thing I guarantee it It's here's what it is. It's a great cloud of witnesses and here's the hat. It's a great group of brothers Yeah, it's but it's brotherhood man. That's the story of the whole thing Bless you brother. Thank you for being with us too much Facebook live and We're gonna put this on the brave men podcast And for everyone who doesn't those cmn. men cmn. men there's a portion of that achieve lab In which dr. Sharon has spoken a number of our conferences and Some brilliant exposition of the gospel is on there on those videos and so Thank you mark for everything you mean for us as a ministry and for me personally. I love you. Love you too, man Hey, thanks for being with us today And I know you were totally knocked out in this conversation with Mark Sharona the things he shared I hope it in large your life is a dead mind. I'm Paul Lewis Cole and I want to thank everybody who's involved in this Christchial's our producer. I want to thank dr. Marcherona missy hood everybody involved in church and living edge And marcherona ministries This is the type of thing that we do at brave man at christian men's network to help in large our lives Equip us to be men with grit and resilience and strength It's not just meeting brave men. It's becoming a brave man And that's why we talk about the things we do on brave men We want to thank you for being with us do this for me. Would you would you help partner with us by just hitting subscribe on that podcast wherever you're at amazon shop with whatever all the different places and Spotify etc etc and And this will help us and then also you can go to youtube and hit in monday night men And you'll see where we've covered some powerful books strong men and tough times We've covered the power of potential never quit and things that will help strengthen you And a lot of churches use to build their ministry to men So thanks for being with us today on brave men all the tools you need again at cmn. men God bless you remember hope is alive hope has a name hopes name is jesus and let me add this. I love my wife God bless you. We'll see you next time You just experienced brave man with Paul Lewis Cole Paul is president of the Christian men's network connect with Paul at cmn.man Or write to him at Paul at cmn.man