BraveMen S3E84: Seth Barnes : Get in the Race!

Hey, thanks for being with us today on Brave Men podcast. It is an outreach ministry of Christian men's network and the Global Fatherhood Initiative. Our goal every single broadcast is to introduce you and for us to meet some of the most amazing men in the world. And this is no exception today with Seth Barnes. I want to mention something though that just happened to me in Portland, Oregon a few days ago. I was at a man's house and a young guy came up to me and it was a gathering of a bunch of people from the church I was with. And this young man in Portland said to me, he said, you know, today I was listening to you and I closed my eyes and I thought, wait a minute, that's my podcast guy. I said, really? He goes, yeah. I said, oh, so you didn't think I looked like this. He goes, yeah, not exactly. So he had a different idea. But here's what happened next. He said to me seven years ago, my wife and I got married. He said, it was great. He said, but I started messing up. He said, two years into that marriage, I divorced her. He said, I did it. He said, I walked away, spun out. It was bad. He said, two years after that, I really began to recommit my life to Jesus Christ in a way I'd never done before. He said through a series of circumstances, she and I ended up meeting again. I asked her if she should go out with me. She did over the next few months, our love grew again. And we got married, remarried after having been divorced for a couple of years. I got remarried. And as he stood there and told me this story over some guacamole and chips and some people walking around, he started getting misdiated. He said, he said, but the last couple of years, it hasn't always been easy. There's too many memories and other things. He said, but I knew I needed to have in me, in my heart, things that made me feel stronger. And he said, I started listening to your podcast. He said, in fact, my pastor told me you need to listen to brave men with Paul Lewis School. And he said to me, it was amazing. He said, that podcast has helped me grow my life to the point now where it has changed the way I do our marriage. His wife walked up in the middle of saying that. And she looks at me, she hears him, she goes, yeah, yeah, you're, you're his podcast guy. And I said, yeah, apparently so. And she starts crying. And she said, I just want to tell you that him spending time reading a word, doing the things you talk about, doing the daily ritual, listening to the podcast has changed our marriage. I'm sitting here with Chris Shields, who's our producer for the Brave Men podcast. And I don't know if I told you that story yet, man. It's not crazy or what? That is why we do what we do. That's why we do what we do, man, because there'll be a million of them. We don't, well, I don't know if it's a million. Let's say a hundred eight five thousand. Yeah, it's prophesied that we don't hear. Yeah. And that was, I mean, I just was stunned, was stunned. And of course, what are the things I said? So you probably thought I was younger, right? Yeah. Thanks, man. So well, I actually am. I just, I just look mature. So how we used to say it is, you've been around the block a couple of times. Oh, thanks, Chris. Yeah. I'll send you around the block. Anyway, what an amazing story. Yes. And that that's why we do Brave Men. Brave Men is about enlarging our hearts, filling our, our spirits with the positive sense of the adventure of Christ. And I can't thank anybody right now who today will help us more than Seth Barnes. Yeah. The, the, I mean, he wrote the warrior book. Yes. The warrior journal. Yes. When in this sacred struggle and adventure and missions and the things he's done and it happened for him, it's amazing story. It happened for him out of a trip into Central America. Yeah. Changes life. Changes life. And even the reality of prayer. You know, and I love even the, the first book he actually wrote that wrote was the art of listening to prayer. And he talks about how his prayer life inspired him to start this organization. You know, and I think oftentimes as men, as you have taught me multiple times, we overlook prayer. You know, and I love what you have taught me and even reading maximize manhood, the intimacy, a tied to prayer. You know, you're intimate with who you pray for and who you pray with. And that is what you're praying to. Yeah. And who you're praying to exactly. And it's like Seth Barnes is illustrating that in his. Sure did. Yeah. Sure did. So today on Brave Men's Seth Barnes, the other thing is, there's a number of men that you probably know that are like this young man in Portland. I mean, as he told me this story and I told it kind of in a brief, truncated fashion, but as he told me all the details, I'm like, dude, are you really? I'm like, I'm like, incredulous. And then he started telling me about how this had really helped center his life. Wow. You know, so to all of our to Bob and in Flagstaff and all of our great podcast friends, Scott, Dan South and you know, all of our friends over in Germany and all over the world. Man, tell somebody about it. Yeah. And pray for it. Pray for pray that it gets in front of you. And when you subscribe, subscribe. Also go to the when you subscribe, go down in the comment area and write your story. Yeah, because when somebody else hears it, it inspires them not only to tune in, but to talk about the impact that it made for them too. And it helps the algorithms. Yes. I hate that word. It didn't never, never used to hate it. Until Facebook banned me from going live for a month. Yes. Just because I celebrated the 21 Coptic martyrs. Yes. That's crazy stuff, man. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, and basically part of the deal was and we're going to we're going to tighten your algorithm. Well, I don't need my algorithm tight. Yeah. So anyway, when you do that, when you do subscribe, it helps push us to different levels. Yeah. And did you share the exciting news? What was the example? We're on Amazon. Amazon. Is that exciting? Yeah. Well, I think it's cool. Yeah. I just don't necessarily appreciate some of the stuff they're doing. Well, can I say that? But that's, yeah, you can take me off. No, they're not. They're not. You sure? Yes. I'm sure they got us on. We're locked in. We're locked in. But that's why we're on. We go to places like this. There you go. Now we go everywhere. It's what Jesus did, right? Exactly. We go anywhere and everywhere. And bring the light. Jesus. Come on, man. All right. Hey, thanks for being with us today. I'm brave man. You're going to love this interview and time together with Seth Barnes. It's brave man with Paul Lewis Cole wisdom and courage for the journey. Hey, it's great to be with Seth Barnes. Seth, you're the founder executive director of adventures and missions. And you have taken over 100,000 people on missions trips around the world. How did that actually start in your heart, Seth? Yeah. 1975, I was in high school. And I think my mom just wanted to get me out of the house. She's a mission trip. You know, this obnoxious child. I get him out of here. And I went to Guatemala. It changed my life. And I just saw a different world coming from Missouri. I so much you don't know that you don't know. And I just, I saw a need. I saw poverty. I saw God's plan and me in it. And so that's what began my journey. As a senior in college, I went to Cambodia when I saw what was happening with the genocide killing field. I said, oh, I've got to be a part of this. I've got to be a part of the solution. And God just took me from there. You know, what worked for me. Well, but yeah, but let's go back on that. You went to Cambodia in the middle of the, I think two million people were killed in that genocide. It's the killing fields of movie made about it. The Khmer Rouge, all of that absolute tragic, terrible. You just got on a plane and went. Yeah, but you know, pretty much it took some doing. I mean, you had to look around and see who was flying there as an organization called truth for the hungry. I was always a little bit of a rebel. And they said, ah, we're not interested in you. And I said, no, you've got to take me. You know, I had to kind of put my nose into the, and then I finally got on board one of those things. And they gave me four hours. And they said, we're going to orient you. And we're going to give you this whole project and this refugee camp. And good luck. And the project was taken care of refugees that were raising pigs and chickens. And they just come over the border barely alive. It was, it was an amazing experience, changed my life. Wow. So you just went, you know, God uses rebels, doesn't he? Well, I don't know. I hope he's used me. If you look in the Bible, they're sure, I don't see too many, you know, they were just pristine. And they went to seminary and then off they went, and never ever send me to God is taking rebels. And hey, you go to the desert for 40 years, then we'll talk. Yeah, exactly. Or you go through the fiery furnace or you go through the lion's den. Daniel was a pretty stout guy. He didn't go to seminary. But he started one. Yeah. Did it ended up with wise men that showed up at the birth of Christ. So yeah. That's a fascinating deal. And so, uh, so when you did this, then you started helping others do the same thing. Is that right? Right. I, I just, uh, you know, so powerful in my life. I thought, you know, man, I'm able to make a difference in people's lives. It, the fact that I was there changed people's lives, allowed people to live. And I just, um, I read scripture Isaiah 58, really pierced my heart. I thought, okay, God actually is interested in finding people who want to care for his children. Just do that. He'll care for me. So I made that exchange at, uh, at an early age. And I just thought, you know, there's leverage. I'm always looking for leverage, ambitious people. And I'm, you know, it's, it's one of my besetting sins, but also a gift. And, uh, yeah, they look for leverage. And I was always, you know, what can I do to multiply myself? And I thought, if I take others like I have the opportunity and I give them really crazy, needy situations, maybe it'll change their lives too. Multiply myself. So I just discipleship, but, uh, you know, it took me a while to kind of figure out what intimacy was. That was a, that was a different, um, lesson and took a lot longer. What do you mean by that? Well, you know, making a difference and having purpose and that all kind of fits with what we, you know, how we as men are designed. It's, it's an awesome thing to put your hand to the plow and feel like you're actually, you know, going to be able to plan a field. And, uh, you know, guys love to talk while they're doing something. Now, one of the reasons I love to hike the Camino and Santiago in Spain is I can take guys with me and we talk as we hike. But, um, intimacy is a different thing and God's looking for intimacy and it took me to really get to some breaking points before I began to understand that and to really get more of his plan for me in terms of depth as opposed to just accomplishing stuff. And what was, what was, uh, Seth, what was that breaking point? Because I was like 31 years old. Uh, I had five children, young children at that point. And, uh, we'd had like five kids in six years. Wow. And, uh, and I, well done, well done. Yes. Well, like, you know, I, you know, it wasn't the thing that I like most. It's probably, hey, that was, that was, well done indeed. Yes. Yeah. I, I, uh, didn't have much to do. Karen was the one that did most of the hard work. And I, um, was in a place where I was questioning my call. I had to call the ministry. I thought it had worked for me for a while. But it wasn't working so well. And I was really at a, even in my marriage, um, uh, it was not an easy time. It was hard time. And we were at a marriage conference and I was at a breaking point where I just was done with everything. Myself included. And, uh, there was a guy named Peter Lord. And it was his church and Titusville. And he had a married friend. And he said, who has never really heard the voice of the Lord? And I thought, you know, I don't even know what that means. Is that reading the Bible? Is that what is that? And so I raised my hand and, uh, he went through a process. I just kind of said, Lord, you know, what do you think of me? And the Lord said, I love you, like, in a way that just, I mean, I was in fear. It is. Oh, yeah, I just, it was so real. Like, people go, ah, you just heard, you know, what is that? And I'm like, it was the most real thing in my life. Change, change me. And, uh, eventually wrote a book about the experience and how you could hear the voice of the Lord called the art of listening prayer. Because I just wanted to share what I'd experienced with other people. Now, let me mention the art of listening prayer is an audio book available on Amazon if I'm not mistaken. And a number of different places plus in print, right? Right. Yeah. So, yeah, you know, that's, that's my story. It was, it was tough, but, uh, and I ultimately was so, and just in a hard place, feeling the trail from number of sources and, uh, for God to show up like that and made just a huge difference for me. And I, I began to recognize that I need to pass this on to my kids and to their friends and I became kind of an evangelist and, um, and then more of a disciple and not, which is ironic because that's kind of how my mom had raised me and I always didn't want to do that. I didn't want to be the fanatic. It kind of turned me into a fanatic. I would imagine that guy walking out of Jesus's house carrying his mat, having laid on it for over many years he did. Right. Right. Became somewhat of a fanatic. Right. Or the, or the blind man is talking to the Pharisees, you know, I don't know. All I know is now I see. So, all I know, all I can tell you, man. So, uh, so, somebody listening right now, somebody watching or listening, uh, and we're talking about hearing the voice of God. Is it, is it just about pressing harder? Is it, is it just about pushing? How is it? Yeah, it's not just effort, but I think it's hunger. I mean, I think, uh, hunger. Okay. For me, it was hunger. I mean, I was desperate. And so, I think often broken this precedes desperation and all the usual crutches didn't work for me. What I had was just a limp, you know, and, and so I was easy picking from all the spirit at that point. And I think oftentimes we then kind of need that. And it's hard for us to humble ourselves and to say, Lord, I need you. And would you please show up? Because I don't know what I'm going to do if you don't. Wow. You know, you, you, on the, uh, you wrote a, uh, really great, uh, discipleship guide, really called the warriors journal. And you describe three different aspects of a man's life. And, and of course, again, because we're on the Brave Men podcast and, uh, discipleship masterclass, uh, I'm, I'm relating it usually to men, but you wrote three aspects, a warrior, the ambassador. And, uh, what was the, the minister of reconciliation? Yeah, the warrior breaks through and fights for, for people. It's not a warrior in the traditional sense. And we, but there is the courage of going to vulnerable places. And, uh, that's where you, you need somebody representing God. You know, that's where the ambassador comes in. You need somebody who says, here is hope. And here's the hope it looks like. And the minister reconciliation, reconciliation helps you to maybe, um, find the posture and the words to, to begin to press into God and to allow him to do what he's so longing to do. Yeah. Yeah. And reconciliation, the original language is, uh, the moral opposite of accusation. Yeah. So, uh, so the accuser of the brethren, what you're really doing is, it's reconciling with Christ. A warrior is not a man of war is a man of peace. Do understands that strength, the peace is always a result of strength. Yeah. And, uh, then ambassador, uh, we've all been called to be ambassadors. Right. So it, it seems to me, so here you are. And then you started the world race. Yeah. Now that's where you and I have intersected in the sense of just my world because Judy and I, my wife and I sponsored two people that went on the world race. Oh, thanks. And so the first time we found out about it, maybe seven or eight years ago, somebody came in the world race. And the only thing I get to think of was that TV show. Yeah. You know, yeah, the world race. What are you talking about? Oh, yeah, we got these countries and we make changes. And yeah, it's pretty amazing. The world race, tell me the concept and what's happened as a result of that. Yeah. So I, you know, uh, I look at giving people experience. So I look at Jesus. He, he didn't just preach the sermon on the mountain. He said, all right, let's pray to the Lord of the harvest that send out laborers. That was Matthew 9. And then what I love to be kind of the irony, it's almost like he, he knows what's going to happen in Matthew 10. He sends them out. Going, where do we have that opportunity in this day and age to go without anything except for God and to try the impossible? We're young people who are so longing to matter and to do something of purpose. When do we give them that opportunity? We don't. We, uh, we, we give them, you know, we give them things like what's in my pocket right here. And we say here, empowerment and, and it just dumps them down. And, and so I looked at Matthew 10 and I said, I want to give young people that kind of opportunity. Take a year and 11 countries in 11 months, each month, you go to a new country, work with new partners and allow God to show up in ways that you've never seen before. See healings, see deliverances, see, um, even in your own life, the kinds of things that you've just hoped and prayed might happen, you know, actually happen. And that's, that's, uh, that was the idea way back in been 14 years ago that we, we did the first one and since then thousands have gone. And it's, um, it's been amazing to me and tens of thousands of people coming to Christ, disciples and churches planted. So, um, it, it does work. Well, really, it, it, you know, I looked at this and I thought, okay, this is awesome because it's really about hands-on, getting stuff done. And, and then I kind of begin to read through it and I thought, wait a minute, this is more than just that. This is actually the discipleship process that you're putting people through. Right. And in some ways, Seth, they may not even realize that. Yeah, I, I, I find that God often gives us a piece of something. We think, oh, that's the thing. And no, I know it's, it's, it's, it's just a little piece of the thing and what he's doing is a bait and switch. He's giving you as much as you can absorb of his kingdom now, but eventually, you know, you might look like Peter on the non-transfiguration. Let's build booze here. Well, that's a great idea. You know, it's just, we, uh, we're, what's the word? It's kind of anamorphic. We're taking man's view of God. And I, I just find that, um, yeah, God expands his, his, uh, kingdom in your own heart as you have more experience. And that's, that's what's worked for us. It's just getting people into places where it's only God that shows up that will make a difference. You know, it's, it's sort of like, um, it's like bracketing if you're a hunter. You, you, you bracket things in. You, you, you bracket your shots to find that, you know, true, uh, spot. And it's sort of like if you'll help somebody, you'll find yourself on the way of to help in somebody else. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's not a biblical, I guess, you know, it's got a biblical gift yourself away. Yeah, you take up your cross and die daily. Yeah. It's fascinating. I, I think it's absolutely incredible. And then I clicked on your, uh, one of your sites. I don't know, you know, I'm looking around. And I see this guy, this friend of mine named Tom Davis, who's, oh, you know, Tom. I met, I was the guy that vetted him. Oh, and U.S. Texas in 1988. I was a member of the board. And they said, there's this young guy. He's just come out of some trouble and some stuff. And, and we want him to be our assistant youth guy. Right. I know the story. Okay. So you know the story. And so I'm the guy that, I'm the guy that said, yeah, okay, let's do this guy. You know, bracelet and all, right? And, um, you know, found his wife and found his direction. They want to call her out on now in Barcelona. Yeah. Very, um, he's amazing. And he's, and he's always been a world changer. He's one of my best friends. So I really love, oh, yeah, I love hanging with Tom. I had no idea. I, I, yeah, when I, when I, when we first started talking about him going to Barcelona, I said, Tom, this is the best thing in the world. You need to do this thing and save your life. And it did. It's been, it's been so amazing for him and for his family. Hey, this is Chris. I want to take a moment right in the middle of this great conversation to let you know the Brave Men podcast is a reduction of the Christian Men's Network worldwide and the Global Fatherhood Initiative. Christian Men's Network has helped pastors and leaders disciple men for over 40 years. You can find all the resources for mentoring and fatherhood at cmin.min. That's the Christian Men's Network at cmin.min. Christian Men's Network does special events across America and around the world. You can find all the information at cmin.min. That's the Christian Men's Network at cmin.min. Click on events. We have tremendous resources for churches with special discounts for groups on that website. Everything a church needs from A to Z to mentor and disciple men of all ages and backgrounds. It will help us continue to reach the lives of many men around the world. If you would like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and subscribe to this podcast and share it. That's the Christian Men's Network and Paul Lewis Cole. Now, let's get back to this powerful interview between Paul and Seth Barnes. Yeah, Tom's a unique, real, real danger life is hanging with him. What would be, now, did you guys walk to trail together? Did you? Okay, tell me about that experience. And you explain it because a lot of people wouldn't know about what it is. It's pretty an amazing thing. I mean, if you're interested, there's a movie called The Way, which with Martin Sheen, and you know, it's a good movie. I've seen it. Yeah, just a good watch. It's produced by his son. Right. Right. Yeah. And so, you know, that's actually where I first found out about it. And I thought that would be a fun thing to do. And so actually took six of my buddies and six young people, guys that were, we're discipling. And we walked, they walked the entire way, which took them a little over a month, 500 miles. Tell us where this, tell us where this is. Yeah. Yeah. It's cold. I do kind of dive into things. So it's, it's in the north of Spain, you can fly into Barcelona, you can fly into Madrid and you take a train. And it actually begins right outside in France. And you, you, you walk about, I don't know, 15 to 18 miles a day. And it's a 1000 years old. It used to be that Catholics would go all the way from places like France or Germany to Spain to see the bones of, of James, the fossil dames. So it's a pilgrimage. Pilgrimage route. It is. It is a pilgrimage. They put castles and hospitals along the way, ancient fortresses that would help protect the pilgrims. And now there's hundreds of thousands of modern folks that that walk this trail. And sometimes the entire distance, sometimes what I do is typically about a week at a time. Fasting. And so what was it? What, what comes out of that, Seth? What is it that happens and what comes out of that? Our lysers are full of so much activity, so much in the ways. And I just, one of the things that we do a lot on our mission trips is to debrief. We'll do stuff and then we'll debrief. What does it mean? I think too often, especially as man, we don't debrief. We don't talk about things. We don't really take the raw material that God would use to change our lives and processes. What this does is it gives you that chance to just go shoulder to shoulder with somebody for hours and hours at a time and talk about your marriage, talk about your purpose in life, your kids, mistakes that you've made, and make sense of it all. I mean, it's a confusing place that we live in this day and age with the coronavirus and all these other things that are, you know, we don't, it's confusing. We don't know how they're going to end. So we, we need, I think, time with friends just talking about what they think and what God thinks. Yeah, we're easily captured by fear. Yeah. And fear usually captures our heart. And I have found that theologically, the opposite of fear is faith. But experientially, the opposite of fear is confidence. And being with brothers brings me confidence. I was reading recently about Elijah when he had that thing, you need praise and fire comes from heaven, right? That's a pretty cool thing. First of all, he says it's not going to rain, it doesn't rain. Then he does the whole fire from heaven thing burns up the stuff. Then he kills 400 pieces of bail. Yeah. Then the king's wife puts a contract out on him, runs for his life, gets disconnected, total depression, sitting underneath a rock and says, you might as well kill me because I'm the only guy left. And God says to him, another 7,000 others who haven't bought me. I think Seth is how come he didn't know the any one of the other 7,000 guys? Yeah. I think we get so busy about what we're doing. Right. We don't connect. And one of those guys could have just said, dude, oh man, help give him perspective. Hey, you just actually prayed and fire came out of the sky. Right. You know, a little bit of perspective would have been good at that point. You know, and it's sad. I mean, you're talking to guys like me all the time, but I think I saw a stat that said, you know, it used to be that the average guy had pretty good friends and now it's maybe down to two. Yeah, I'll tell you what, it's the stat I just read, Seth, says 1.7. Yeah. And what's funny is always laugh when I say it because I always ask guys, now you know the 0.7 guy. That's good one because he's the one that doesn't show up when you move. Right. Yeah. So we need friends. And as I get older, I really do curate my friends. I want to and I'm going to have a conversation today with an old friend who, you know, he's hurt me. And I like, you know, you hurt me and I need to talk to you. I mean, we need to press in like that to guys. Okay, let's go back because you just said a word. It's really fascinating to me. And for men who are listening to this, we're talking about wisdom and courage for the journey. Yeah. Talking about it, we talk a lot about brotherhood and building that band of brothers. Or as my friend West said, the bond of brothers, you said curate friends. Yeah, fascinating. That's a fascinating word that you usually only hear that when it has to do with music or things like that. What do you mean by that? How does that actually work? There's a lot of guys that potentially could be friends. And then there's a lot of people that may want to get something from me, um, and then there are those that actually know how to be a good friend. And maybe they're at a distance or maybe, you know, we just need the opportunity to do something together. And that's where, you know, a hike or a mission trip or just a trip can do that. And I, I like to press into guys and I like to be direct about, you know, intentionally what the relationship could mean. And not just kind of hope that maybe we'll pal around or have a drink or whatever, but, you know, declare what the possibilities are for the relationship. In other words, you actually openly speak into it. Is that right? Absolutely. Yeah, you know, I've got guys that would never before have told me that, you know, they love me. But now it's easy for them to do so. And it's just by pressing in. And I, it's like in America, who teaches us that? I mean, it really is so sad to see all these guys and they don't know how to be a friend. I just want to, hey, you want friends? Be a good friend. Well, that's a bit of a cool concept too. You have a lot of those, Seth. I was, I was working out the other day at the gym and there was a guy next to me. I was a stationary bike and there was a guy next to me and he was talking to the guy next to him and I had my headsets off and I happened to hear them. One guy said to the other, he said, hey, where's so and so, whatever the guy's name? Where's Bill? He says, oh, you don't know. He had a heart attack. He had been in a gym in a couple of months and the other guy said, oh, man, I had no idea. He and I are pretty good friends. We work out together all the time. No, I had no idea we're good friends. Oxymoron, right? And the fact is is that most people, their friendships really are what we would call just an acquaintance. Right. And they say, that's my friend, but the guy didn't even know. Right. It's a shame. I just, it makes me sad. And for my own kids, I want them to see an example of what it looks like to have a brotherhood, to have, you know, lots of friends and unfortunate. I wish they were closer. I mean, I think if you live in Holland or something, everything's within a two hour drive and here we are in America, you got to get on a plane. Yeah, it's true. Now, what that means, then is that what you're doing with the world race, where you send people and you've done it with over 100,000 people and they go do missions and all that. Really, what you're looking at is a transformational experience that moves them to a place. When they come back, they're actually people who go get stuff done for the king. Right. Love it when that happens. It takes years, but I love it when people are, let's, let's go for it. Let's, I want to, you know, do my life differently. So where do I begin? And for me, that's, that's an awesome way to spend time. So what, let me just finish with this, Seth, and ask you this, when you sit with somebody like that, somebody you're mentoring, let's say a young person, what is the first path you're track you're basically trying to run on with them? I mean, you can't just download all of this that, yeah, at once. Yeah, I, I, I, I, I'm looking to do something with them. I'm not just looking to sit there in a counseling room. I'm happy to do, you know, as a minister reconciliation. It's a great thing, but guys typically need to, you know, get underneath the car and empty the oil out that we need to go, you know, build a church. And I'm, the women like to hang out and do the real work, which is relational, but guys need something to do with their hands. And so that's often the, the first course we've got, I don't know, maybe 70 or so parents getting on planes today to go down to Nicaragua. Wow. And they're going to do some, the guys will do some, some building stuff. And oftentimes they, they want to come back because they can see the difference that it makes, but also because their hearts have been dug. And they begin to see the reality of what relational ministry can be. I was there in Nicaragua before, during and after the revolution. Yeah. Yeah, and I was there as a journalist during it. I was there before it for some sort of meeting crusade type thing. And then after that went down in a, in a charity, you know, help sort of thing. That's fascinating country. So, you know, what you're really saying, and to me is that, is that if I'm going to disciple a young man, do something, don't just try, you know, women, what I always tell guys is women bond face to face, a men bond shoulder to shoulder facing. That's exactly it. So that would be the first thing is, is find a project, do a thing, build something, do habitat for humanity. Yep. In other words, it's sort of like do something. Right. And then you have a conversation along the way about life, you know, and everybody's got pain points. The marriages and working so well, they've got a kid that's rebelling. There's, and we just, we need brothers who can pray with us and, you know, give some wisdom. I've found it takes years. So, you know, I've learned to kind of be patient and to show up when there's a crisis and, and, you know, guys need that. Yeah, but you've learned to be patient because you've been in ministry over 30 years. Well, that'll do it, too. You know, when I'm 26, like Chris is sitting right here, I'm maybe not as patient, you know. And so it's something that, and really that's where the fathers in the faith, you know, when Paul said you've got 10,000 instructors, but not many fathers. An instructor gives you what he knows, but a father gives you who he is. That's so good. And, you know, where we have to go. And often you combine the two and a project or a, or a hike or something with a younger person can be an initiation experience. Often that's what the world race is for young men. I used to be the young men were initiated now. You get these 30 some things that still act like boys. I mean, we need initiation. And so that's, um, you know, Chris, if you're hearing this and they have you been initiated, have you gone out and done stuff? That's hard. I mean, he's doing this stuff right now. Yeah, I mean, God wants young men to feel pain and actually understand powerlessness so they don't abuse power. Yeah, you know, it was Plato that said, most men live unexamined lives. Right. I think that in our world today, we live over examined lives, but uninitiated lives. So I think what you're saying, Seth, is absolutely so right on. Man, I love what you're doing with the world race. The warrior journal. My goodness. You guys have got so many things going on. You're touching so many lives around the world. 70 70 couples going off today. Yeah. Yeah, we have a base in Nicaragua. We've got bases around the world. And when they go, you know, go to a place like Swaziland where we've got, I don't know, several hundred staff and taking care of 8,000 orphans. That impacts your life. And so I fully expect a lot of the people that are going down to Nicaragua to see things they've never seen before and really begin to ask questions that maybe you needed to be asked a long time ago. Yeah, it's amazing how, how beautiful communism works. Yeah. That was a beautiful nation. Of course, the guy running it, Smosa time was a terrible man. His family was. But then Ortega and his crew take it over. Yeah. And he becomes one of the wealthiest men in Central America. So it becomes just like the guy he overthrew. What an irony. Communism works really well for a few guys at the top. But man, the country's still hurting, isn't it? It is. Yeah. A lot of alcoholism, a lot of numbing of the paint. Yeah. So Seth, you know, just go to the easy places. Do you? I love going to the garbage dumps. I remember when I was just getting the the race started and I was out running. I used to be more of a runner till my knees began to tell me not to and I was lost. I got lost. I couldn't find my way back to where I started and it was just a big open field. I didn't know where to go. Wow. And I heard the Lord say, go back to the garbage dump because I hang out in garbage dumps and I'll show you the way from there. I did. I went back to the trash dump and then I saw, oh, that's where that's where I started. I'll go that way. And at that point, I found my way back and I that's just been a paradigm in life. You know, I think go to the poorest of the poor. That's where Jesus tends to hang out. It's fantastic. Seth, it's been absolutely an amazing blessing to meet you and to share a little bit of your story with my friends that are listening. How many children do you have again? Five kids. All in their 30s now. Do you have some grandchildren then? We've got seven if you count the two that are on the way right now. Come on, man. You got to count them. In Japan, when they're born, they're already one. Yeah. So that's fantastic. Congratulations. Yeah. Thank you. We have got awesome kids and you know, just such a blessing to have the grandkids now. Wow. Yeah. I told a group of people this weekend down in Brownsville. I said, I love being a boy low. Yes. You know, I love the whole thing about it. Oh, it's awesome. Get down on the rug and, you know, I'm Papa Daddy. They loved it. Come on, Papa Daddy. Let's wrestle. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a couple that run at me full speed. Uh-huh. And when they get to be 10, it's not as easy to withstand the old stuff. That's right. They think you've found. I love it. Anyway, we just pray blessing over you, Seth. You and your wife and family and the world race and adventures.org is your website. And I would just, I would, if there's an older person listening, you've got kids, you've got young people. In fact, you've got guys in their 50s that go on some of these adventures, right? Lots of them. Yes. Yeah. It's such such purpose. I mean, if you're looking for purpose beyond just hitting a golf ball around, of course, you know, go on a trip and see what God shows you. Well, there's no purpose in hitting a golf ball at least in my world. You know, maybe just being outside. I think it was Mark Twain that says golf is a good walk spoiled. Uh-huh. And so, uh, anyway, Seth, God bless you and everything you're doing. I look forward to more time with you in the days ahead. That's great. Thank you. Yep. See you. Paul, the biggest thing that inspires me about men like Seth Ballons is when you can take prayer and see it put into action and to see the impact that it has. That's what type of man I love to admire and follow because they are doing things that are impacting the world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he really is. And when you figure over 100,000 people have gone on these adventure and mission trips, what you have is you have 100,000 people who have been activated in the same way he was. Yes, right? Wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's shifted their their viewpoint. My, uh, my oldest son Brandon with a Moscow and then outside of Moscow went to an orphanage with Ron Lewis with Romania. He spent two weeks over there. He had deeply marked his life. Um, I think part of the depth of his life now is our, you know, experiences like that as a pastor at C-34 worth. And, um, and in Bryce, my youngest son went as a basketball player to Chicago. Wow. And they played street ball for two weeks as part of a witnessing program just to share Jesus. That's amazing. Yeah. It was pretty cool. And, uh, there was some pretty intense games. I'm sure. I'm sure. You know, and I know Seth has even more stories than what he shared with us. And, uh, someone to thank Seth Barnes for being with us today on Brave Men. I also want to jump on top of what you talked about, uh, Chris at seaman dot men, tools to disciple men. That's what we do. And in fact, this week is where, is we're broadcasting this podcast. We're actually broadcasting into Vietnam. We have over a thousand. Excuse me. We have 996 registrations. Yeah. But I know it's going to be a thousand. Yeah. Well, the deal is, is it, you know, I hate doing that elastic thing. You know, it's like real, but the fact is it'll be over by time we get to the broadcast in to Vietnam. It'll be, you know, probably close to a couple thousand pastors and leaders who will be on those broadcasts. Listen to how to, how to motivate men, how to disciple men. We've got some incredible speakers. Vinciard Dobbins coming in from Bishop T.D. takes his church. Yes, sir. And then my friend Keith Davis former defensive captain, USC. Roseball champion. Yep. Which he always brings up. Yeah. He'll let us know. Yeah. And, uh, Keith and then John Arana, who's an amazing pastor and leadership, uh, specialist. Yes, specialist. And then Pastor Wall Landers, who, uh, you know, was talking to him this weekend. And it's amazing what he's doing with, with charter schools. Yeah. Absolutely remarkable. And we've got to get him on a, once we start to do the set, we've got to get him and we just get into this thing about how do you change the world, man? Change it one man at a time. Yes. And you do that by doing, Seth Barnes does what he does well, right? Yes. Wall Landers does something totally different, but he does it well. Yes. John Arana, totally different. Keith Davis, totally different with all the public schools. Yeah. I think of, I think of different men who were, you know, uh, it's, uh, it was a Martian Lynch. Is that the guy's name? Yeah. Is it the Seahawks? Yeah. You remember that? Wasn't that Seahawks? So we're in the Super Bowl, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely were in the Super Bowl. So, remember, as Martian, he turned up, uh, it was, uh, Michael Irvin went over an interview because he even want to talk to the press. He said, I'm only showing up because of all this, I get fined. But I don't have to say anything. Anyway, Michael went up to him and he said, you're just trying to win a game, aren't you? He said, yeah, I'm just trying to stay in my lane. Wow. I think there's something really real about that, Chris, that we stand our lane, do what we're supposed to do. Don't, don't go try to do Seth's deal if that's not your deal. Yeah. That's a cool thing. Yeah. Don't do that. First of all, you set yourself up for failure. Yeah. Secondly, you're going to hurt some other people because you're not operating in your full gift box. So good. But if you're supposed to do that and you're not, yeah, okay, that's the same thing. Yeah. You're, you're, uh, you need to go do that thing. Call Seth, say, how do I start this thing? I've got, you know, a group of 800 young people here in the middle of Alabama and we want to go do stuff. Yeah. How do I do it? You know, when a guy likes Seth Barnes, he'll just share with you. Here's the deal, man. Do this. Yeah. Right. So that's so good. Yeah. It is. That's staying in line, bro. Yeah. That's start of humility. Yeah. It's, yeah, it is. You know, and, and you don't have to worry about what's on your Instagram. No. Are who won? We won. We win. Yeah. Yeah. It's Christianity is the only faith that started with the declaration of it's finished. Yes. Man, that's a good word. You're on a roll. Come on with somebody. I mean, we started from it's done. Yeah. We started the fight with. We win. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Okay. And all we got to do is rest. That's, well, in the finish. Now, rest is, I'm not going to get off into this. Okay. Because rest has in it a sense of action. Yeah. Um, resting in the Lord. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, in the finished work. Yeah. Yeah. Do something. All right. Hey, thanks for being with us today on Brave Man. Thank you, Chris, for bringing in, you know, amazing guests like this. And thank you to our friends who make this possible by donating to the christian man's network at cmn.man and getting the materials, getting guys to cycle. That's what we're about. And God bless you. We thank you for being with us today. And remember, there's one final thing. There's two final things that this with this guy reminding me of one of them. And one of them is hope is alive. Hope has in the hand. Hope's, hope's name is Jesus. And then the last one is a love of my wife. Amen. Come on. You just experienced Brave Man with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian men's network. Connect with Paul at cmn.man or write to him at Paul at cmn.man.