BraveMen S3E81: Disney, Brotherhood and the Story of Ray Ray McElrathbey

Sometimes you hear a story and you think, man, they need to make a movie out of that. Well, today's story, they did make a movie. It's a Disney Plus movie called Safety. And it's a story of very, very mackerel Rathby who took his younger brother, who was being put into the social system and actually took him to college with him, even though his little brother was 11 years old. And at Clemson, everybody sort of gathered around and go with Fomar, his little brother. And then after that, it became a bigger story is he continued to take care of his little brother because his mother was dysfunctional, father was out of the picture. This is the most remarkable story with me today again as Chris Shields, our producer. Chris, brave men, when you think about brave men, you think about guys climbing mountains, you think about men doing courageous things, but I don't know that I've met a more courageous man than Ray Ray. You took his little brother to college with a man. Yeah, and it's crazy. When I think of this story, after watching the movie here in the story, I can't think of anything else, but am I my brother's keeper. Am I my brother's keeper, yeah. And you see a distinction, and I think that this is something that we can really learn in this podcast, but even in this story and in this movie, the safety movie, on Disney Plus. What brother are we? Are we able or are we cane? You know, because there's a big difference between being able and cane. Abel means to be a life-giving spirit. Cain means to be a possessor. And these are guys in the Old Testament. Yes. So it's like, which one killed the other one? Cain killed. Cain killed Abel. So the possessor killed the spirit. Yeah, amazing. And it's like, what brother are we going to be? Are we going to be a man, a brother that is giving life to our brothers? Or are we going to just take from our brothers? And this is a great example that Ray Ray puts out in front of us. He gave everything to his brother and to his team. Yeah, it's an amazing story. Clemson University, they really did a good job helping him. The guy shows up. Well, we got the whole story here. It's amazing time. And then it becomes a movie. Yeah. And now he's a motivational speaker doing all sorts of things, helping people. He ended up at a different college. Yes. For a while. He was a safety. That's why the movie's called safety. Is that right? Yes. Okay. Which is American football. Yep. But in other parts of the world. So and that's a guy in the backfield. Yeah. Ask guy has to be fast, hit hard. That kind of thing. Yeah. But he actually ended up getting injured and moved to running back. Oh, okay. And you know, he played behind CJ Spiller. Okay. Well, here you go. Yeah, he ended up going to the NFL. So it was a. Well, when he got to Clemson, he had two men ahead of him that were. That ended up pro. Yeah. Yeah. So. But you know what? This guy's an amazing story. And I'm thrilled to have Ray Ray McElrath be here today with us on Brave Men. This is the kind of thing. You know, when we talk about Brave Men and the Christmas Network and our teaching and what we do with helping disciple men. It's not about just listening to the stories of Brave Men. But letting these things stretch us. Yeah. It's that question you just asked. Am I my brother's keeper? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what we teach. It's accepting personal responsibility. Yes. It's saying, you know, you know, this guy needs help and too often, man, we, we, we tend to have a tendency to just act busy or get busy or think we're way busy. Yeah. If people really look at their schedules, they're not as busy as they think they are. No. I mean, you know, it's like, man, I'm just, I'm just, man, I got, man, I'm just wiped out. I got so much stuff going on. What did you do last night? Man, we binge watched this series. Yeah. You had plenty of time, bro. Are you kidding me? You couldn't take it. It's like my son, Brandon, Pastor Brandon, who, Pastor C-34, worth, he took his sons and they went down and they filled up the pantry at one of the things down in South Fort Worth. Yeah. And they filled it up with food. Well, you know, that marked his son. Yes. And it took them a couple of hours total and some funding, you know, buy a bunch of stuff and put it in there in the pantry. But you know what? That marked his son's life. Exactly. Helps about 12 different families with their food. Yep. And it took two hours of the time. And then after that, he goes and, you know, takes his kid and they go roller, you know, rollerblading or something, not rollerblading. What is it? Skateboards. Yeah. He's got that little razor thing. What is it? Scooter. Scooter, yeah. That's it. Yeah. That's crazy. And so they go do that stuff. But, you know, so in other words, we do have the time to do this. Yeah. And Ray Ray is that kind of story. Yeah. And, you know, I love what you're touching on because we always have time for what we love. Yeah. And it reminds me of an acronym. You know, I had to throw an acronym in there. Love. Leaving outstanding vision eternally. When you know that you're in love, you're leaving outstanding vision eternally. You're putting something into motion like you always say a legacy is always what you leave behind, you know. And that's what Ray Ray did. That's what we as men, part of the Christian men's network as brotherhood. That's what we have to do. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's a good point. All right. Hey, now Ray Ray is coming in. This is going to be fantastic. Thank you for being with us today on Brave Men, a Ministry of the Christian men's network, and the Global Fatherhood Initiative. Ray Ray McElrathby from the movie Safety, a most remarkable story today on Brave Men. It's Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole, wisdom and courage for the journey. I'm talking with Ray Ray McElrathby, who was a safety on the Clemson Tigers football team, and you hid your little brother in your dorm room. But there's a story behind that, right? Yeah, there's a story behind it all. There's a story behind that. You hid him there because he had no place to go. Tell me about that, those moments. Your mom at the time was in, she had a substance abuse issue. Yes. Crackled. That was out of the picture. At that, this is 2006. And here you are actually playing football at Clemson, big, big time deal. My brother's got nowhere to go. Tell me about those moments, right? Well, it was worth some string-wise moments, not much for myself, because I was at Clemson University on the full scholarship playing football. So a lot of my basic needs were handled. Whereas with my brother, my mother with her addiction, and it caused this issues with my parents in their relationship, there was just a circle of dysfunction that Favemore no longer wanted to participate in. Favemore is my younger brother. Right. And he came to Clemson for a visit and decided that he didn't want to go back. Wow. And I gave him the alternator as I saw it. Whereas you need to go back or you go to foster care. And he was like, I really go to foster care. Wow. Which threw me off a lot because as much as I went through my family, I never wanted to go to foster care. Yeah. You knew it was serious. I mean, he's 11 years old. Well, at the time he was nine. He's nine at this point. And he's deciding he'd rather go foster care. Then you knew it was serious. Yes, that's when I took it a little bit more serious. And I started to weigh the options of him possibly staying there, because he asked me, could he stay there? Because, you know, he felt like what we've been doing up until that point was good for him. And he liked the whole atmosphere and I understand that it's quite different. No, no chaos really at all. And so he asked me, could he stay? And first I was like, no, that it'll make sense. Here I am. 18 years student athlete at the time. Right. This is the summer of my freshman year. And I couldn't imagine him going to foster care. So I spoke with two of my mentors at the time. One of my mentors totally cuts me out. Because he had understood the gravity of the situation. He was a college athlete himself when he was in school. Yeah. And he knew the schedule. Yeah, schedule and the stress. I mean, you got him. You're there. You're on scholarship. You still got to make it. You still got it. It's basically a nine to five if you're on scholarship, because they're paying you for your work essentially. So being that that was the case. It wasn't ideal for me to bring on the whole responsibility of a take care of a young man that's, you know, not even my child. And bringing them on campus and, you know, trying to take care of them. And I, one of my mentors knew I wasn't in no position to do it, because he was even paying my cell phone bill at the time. It wasn't, it wasn't like I had a bunch of money. The most that I do, I live off my pill grant and keep it pushing. But I spoke with another one of my mentors and he was a little bit more optimistic about it. Let's say, and he was like, well, Ray, you know, I believe in you. And, you know, you can do it. You think you can. I mean, you can't do any worse than your parents. Wow. And I went back to school. The fame always already there. So I was like, I'm going to just keep him here. And I told my coaches that eventually he'll be going back home. Everybody expected him to return back once something was over, but he never did. And so that was kind of the beginning of the end. Now, what did you do right at that point? Because I mean, the story that came out, and this is, uh, has become a huge movie that came out called Safety, which is based on the position you were actually recruited for. Uh, they're Clemson. Uh, what, but, and so there's this great story after. But at that moment, bro, I mean, you must be going like, what do I do now in, in school and all kinds of stuff? Well, um, and this is why I tell people a lot of times that I thank my parents for the things that I went through as a young man, because it prepared me for the world that I lived in afterwards. Wow. Um, so I've been through tough times. So me taking care of my brother, I didn't look at it as a tough time because all my basic needs were already met. I was on scholarship. So I had housing. I was on the meal plan. So I had food. And so everything after that was, you know, icing on the cake for me based on how I came up. Because you didn't come up knowing that you were going to have the same kind of good food every day. Right. Right. I mean, yes. And it's like a lot of kids today. They don't, they don't from Friday afternoon till Monday morning. They don't have anything good to eat. Right. So they get back to school. I think you and I would agree that that needs to change. There shouldn't be a child in America going hungry now. No, um, they say that we throw away 24,000, 24,000 tons of food. Goodness. Every, every 10 seconds, but then somebody dies of starvation. Three people die of starvation every 10 seconds during that time. So it's, and basically part of what you're doing now and we're moving past it. You've got a foundation. Yes. Young people. And so I want to get into that because that's what I want to provoke. Anybody listening watching right now with you and me. And I'm on with, uh, right, uh, with Ray. I mean, we know you was Ray Ray. That's how. That's cool. And then growing up, or what, where'd that come from? Yes. It was, uh, my father's name was Rahim. So early on, my dad's salad family called me raw. So the shortened of his name. So it was raw, raw. And then my auntie in Atlanta, um, called me Ray Ray because she didn't like calling me raw. And Ray Ray stuck because I spent a great bit of time in Atlanta afterwards. Um, so my dad's family called me raw. I didn't necessarily stay because they weren't around the call me that in front of my childhood friends. Right. Yeah. So we came Ray Ray. Ray mom, uh, Michael Rathbeck. And, uh, so, uh, now going back, you're in Clemson, your scholarship athlete. Your little brother is nine years old. He's not in the fame. Are he's not going to go back to, you know, because if he goes back home, he's going into. CPS or something. Well, no, he didn't ever want to go back home. So it was a CPS or, you know, yeah. So he stayed. And then what was that first few weeks? Like, my understanding is you kind of had him hiding in the room sort of. Yes. Yes. The first few weeks, uh, were kind of difficult in the sense not so much, but it was, whereas. You know, you can't be seen as much as you were seen before because you're supposed to be going. So no, you can't be around. You can't hang out. Um, but the good thing was that people in the cafeteria saw them in the summer. So they wasn't necessarily surprised when they saw them in the fall. But my coaches and everybody else weren't sure what was going on. And it wasn't until a gentleman named Larry Williams wrote a story. That in the making the front page of the local paper. Then everybody knew. And so it was like one of the situations where, uh-oh, like. He wrote a really heartwarming story, but he also outed you. Yes. Yes. Yes. But he was, he was one of the people that was paying attention. Because he had seen my brother around and he had seen him again. And then he realized we were in school at this time. And so he still, he saw him again. It was like, okay, who's this kid? Yeah. And, uh, it's one of my other teammates told him like, hey, because a lot of my, a lot of the freshmen guys knew about it. Because we hung out with each other. So, uh, they, my roommate knew, like, new new, but a lot of the freshmen were, were also a prize of the situation. So it was like, they told her, told Larry about, well, he stays with Larry. Like, really stayed with him. And so it went from there because he was like, he came to me. He was like, I'm not trying to get you in any trouble or anything. Right. You know, but I would love to, you know, get the backstory about what you got going on. Yeah. So then the backstory was you were taking care of your little brother. And now you come from a larger family. You've got other siblings. Yes, I have seven siblings. And you ended up at one point in your life actually being a guardian to your little sister also. Yes. Yes. And, uh, but man, this is, but this is a little different. You're 18 trying to make football team trying to get playing time. And, uh, you get your nine year old brother there. This guy writes a story. But then the next thing that happened, I think, is the, the crux of the, of the movie. And we're talking about the movie called safety. Just came out on Disney plus. And it's fantastic. And, um, Of course, you know, they, they, they, they made it a Disney movie. So it does have, you know, bad guys and good guys and. All that kind of thing. But man, I mean, the people at Clemson, rather than chase fame are off your little nine year old brother. They embraced them and they, they made some things possible for you. Yes. Yes. Uh, at first, uh, everything was a little rocky because I was a student athlete. Yeah. And being the, being a student athlete, I can't, I couldn't receive anything because of my likeness. Oh, anything. That's right. The NCAA and all those rules. Yes. So the NCAA came in relatively quickly and suspended me. Wow. Um, because, uh, I violated, um, one of the rules, which was receiving an extra benefit because I received things because of who I was. But it wasn't because of who I was. It was who I was as a person and the things that I was doing with my brother. But because people dropped them off and picked them up and took them to school. That was an extra benefit because it wasn't something that was offered to all the students. So big thing that I take it. Let me get back to that is that people actually begin to rally around you. Uh, Ray, Ray and they begin to take your little brother to school. They begin to pick him up, begin to help in different ways, trying to do it right. But you know, uh, at that point in time, that little sliver of time does all against the rules. Yes. So how did you solve that? I mean, you didn't get kicked out. Obviously. How did that get? Well, I got suspended in this support that, that the movie, uh, covers where, uh, you have to go to a hearing with the NCAA in order to get my eligibility back. All right, but those guys came around to their credit, right? Yes, yes, yes, yes. NCAA. So now you're taking care of your little brother. Uh, they move you from safety to running back. When did that happen? Uh, that happened. Uh, my sophomore year, going to my sophomore year, going to sophomore year. So you were red shirt as a freshman? Yes. Okay. Red shirt is a safety. And then they brought you back in as a running back. You know who I just talked to the other day, you had the same thing with is, uh, Darrell young. He works up in the NFL office and, uh, Darrell was, uh, when he came to the redskins, a number of years ago, he came as a linebacker and he got cut. Uh, Shanahan was a, uh, Mike Shanahan was the coach. He brings him back in and basically says, if you'll be a running back, then you'll get PT, you'll get playing time. And, uh, that changed everything for him. And so they moved you from safety to running back. And then you end up with a couple guys who went to the NFL playing ahead of you. Yes. They're enlightening. They're enlightening James Davis and CJ Spiller. Yeah. But I, but I also chair my ACL that year too. That's right. Yeah. And, but you were on some great, you were on some good teams. Tell me about your coaches. What was it like in the locker room? I mean, obviously they understand what's going on. They're still trying to push you towards performance. All right. Yes. Yes. To, to, to, to be honest, I don't think they understood what I had going on. Uh, just because of the complexities of the situation. A lot, a lot of moving parts. And, but they, to, to their credit, they were trying to, everybody was trying to figure it out as we went. Um, so it was all a learning process for everybody involved. Wow. Now, and then you ended up getting a degree at, um, uh, the next, what was the next school you wrote? No, I got, I graduated from Clemson in three years. You did a three year degree from Clemson. Was that, is that communications? Uh, I was, I was a double major, but since I was graduating early, I ended up being, uh, just taking the sociology as a major in communications as a minor. So I got my bachelor's in three years. Okay. Wait a second, man. You did, you did a four year degree in three years. Yes. Yes. Okay. As a, as a, as a dorm dad. Well, um, I always kind of been serious about school and so. Man, I, most, most of my friends were able to get their four year degree done in about six. I've got a, I've got a relative now that, uh, her parents call her a professional student. I understand that I've been there before. But you nailed it, man. Now, now, now let me ask you, what was going on, uh, your father who has now since passed away. Oh, is he gone? So, you know, I don't care, you know, my dad's been gone 18 years. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day, his dad been gone seven years. I said, you still think about it, don't you? Seven years ago. Yeah. Yeah, it sticks with you because, um, yeah. Essentially, it's, um, it's the future version of you no longer here. So it makes you question your own mortality. Wow. And, um, what is your, what is your dad? I mean, obviously you, when you say you, you think your parents for the hard knocks. Uh, they, they went through some rough times, you know, both economically, sociologically. And then, and then they, they had the issues that forced them apart. They got divorced. Um, your mother, Tonya had a substance abuse, abuse issue. But that began to change, right? Yes. Yes. Um, but I mean, depending on when you're talking about, yeah, because, uh, it's been a roller coaster as far as my mom and the substance abuse is concerned. And then, um, with my dad, I resented him early on. Um, I've cried, I cried about this a lot in, uh, in the past, but I resented him early on because I didn't understand. I was smart enough to take an account, his perspective, um, because he stayed with my mom for a couple of decades through crack cocaine. Yeah. And to love someone that much to, to deal with the things that he dealt with, because I will tell him, and I'm not to try to cast any expressions on my mom, but there'll be nights and days where, you know, things will be perfectly fine. And then there'll be a trigger. And then everything will change overnight. Yeah. And so where we will have all our basic needs met, we got enough food, all our clothes to take care of and things are fine. It's a fire sale and we wake up, everything is going no more TVs, no more VCRs, all the food sold out the refrigerator. And so my dad will go to work at night and come home in the morning to nothing. Oh my God. And so he did that for years. Wow. All for, all for no one. And, you know, just trying, and it's not like he was rich. He was already living, you know, not just a paycheck, paycheck to paycheck, but, you know, one check or that type of swing could make it so that you go from, you know, middle class to poor and then my mind and when they said the middle class, but it was, you know, we can have food today and then tomorrow we have nothing. So one, one paycheck from being bankrupt. You know, well, man, that speaks highly of your dad. What did you learn then? You know, so, but you didn't know this because you're just a kid. Right. And then I blamed him for leaving. I was pissed. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Because mom didn't do nothing. It wasn't, I didn't take account of anything she did because a lot of times we crucified fathers. You know, you typically only get one chance to mess up as that. But mom can, you know, tear up the world because she still be mom. But that typically, you're in a short leash. Because it's not a lot of times that because the things that you do as a father, that you're typically no one gives you credit for in reality because they tell you that's what you're supposed to do. But that's not the same case with mothers. Mothers get congratulated for what they're supposed to do. That's why mothers there is, is makes five times as much money as father's day. Um, nobody goes out there way to be like even, even a lot of times when fathers are not with mothers, they'll still tell that child that hey, here's something to get your mom or some for mother's day. Yeah, that's true. not the case, but mom is typically not telling you, you know, hey, go get your dad some fathers. Father's day card. Hey, so what did you learn then? You're taking care of fame or in the dorm and people are helping. Now you have two children yourself. Now you have perspective on your dad. What did you learn in that year or so of taking care of your little brothers who grew up? I learned how to put the kid first, but also I learned how to be a better adult, how to be a better man. And that being said because I had to be more accountable for the things that I did knowing that not my decision is no longer just to fake me. And that's never been the case. I've always been involved in teams and other groups that my actions reflect on them, but not so much in this situation. And so with fame or in just going through the things that the day to day allows me to be a better dad to my son, it allows me to, you know, because I've been to it before, just that experience, just the learning experience itself has taught me how to be a better parent. And that's why I always tell fame or about the significance of our relationship. And you're more than just a brother to me. You and my practice got me. And if you realize how much athletics have been a part of my life, you know, we always go to practice for a reason, like, you know, you know, to get to even close to perfection, you have to practice. And I want to be a better parent. And so the fact that you gave me years of practice, and then now that you're older, you can also give me feedback on the things that you felt I could have been a little bit better with because he's done that at this point in my life where he was like, Hey, right, you, you probably were a little bit more authoritarian than you needed to be. Because it, and then, but see me, I take that account to when I'm speaking with my son. Yeah. Because I was verbally abused, not knowing what verbal abuse was. And my, my parents not understanding what it was. And like most parents, not understanding what it was, because unless you study that it's not something that you can, you know, pick up on because you got to be careful with what you say to your children, because their, their life is based on your expectations for the most part because you're their God on earth until they find their own, you know, savior. Yeah. As far as they know, you're the person like they look up to you as your word is, is, you know, supreme. So if you say certain things, they take it as the gospel. Yeah. You are their source of truth. Yes. Yeah. And just kind of like going through the years and learning that and, you know, being able to delve into those things well before I have my own kid makes it so that I'm a better parent now and a better man in general. Hey, this is Chris. I want to take a moment right in the middle of this great conversation to let you know that the Brave Men podcast is a production of the Christian Men's Network worldwide and the Global Fatherhood Initiative. Christian Men's Network has helped pastors and leaders disciple men for over 40 years. You can find all the resources for mentoring and fatherhood at cmin.min. That's the Christian Men's Network at cmin.min. And cmin has created a 12 part training course on how to create a successful ministry to men for pastors and leaders. Check it out. It will help us continue to reach the lives of many men around the world if you would like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and subscribe to this podcast and share it. That's the Christian Men's Network in Paul Lewis Cole. Now let's get back to this powerful interview between Paul and Ray Ray. This amazing story, I want to make sure everybody gets it. It's on Disney Plus so it's downloadable. I'm sure there's by the time somebody's listening to this, there's otherwise to get it. But that's how to get it. The movie is called Safety and it will be inspirational too. It is just something to show the groups of people, sit down with some guys, sit down with your kids, watch this because it's not always going to be inspirational. But it's going to, it's going to stir your heart up towards good works. How did you resolve the wound of your heart with your father? I didn't resolve it. It's an open wound. I bandage it, you know, weekly. In bad bandage it, I have my emotional breakdowns and where, which I cry. And then just, you know, the opportunity that I have with the movie coming out, I have a chance to talk about it. And a lot of the times when I bring up my father, typically just like when I bring up my parents, I always want to say thank you because I don't want any of you, anyone to get that idea that I'm not, you know, totally committed to those individuals and that I love those people. And, but throughout my life, yeah, I kept showing up now. Yes, and he kept showing up and then there wasn't, but one other woman that I've met. And you know, it was after him and my mom had did their split and, but that's one of the women in decades, giving my mom situation, her in and out of rehab and the struggles that come along with being an addict and, you know, it's a disease. So it's almost like you can't even blame her in a sense. Because it's just like, it's just things that they go through. And I think a lot of people don't take an account of things that their parents possibly have went through because I was doing in my own little study and in my own self-help, ACE scores, which is adverse childhood experiences. And it basically scores your trauma level based on a number of traumas you went through as a child. And it almost directly correlates with health outcomes. So your score, so if your score is one in ten, if you over three, everything that you can possibly any, I guess, drastic terrible health outcome triples. So cancer, heart disease, you're less likely, you're more likely to engage in risky behavior because you live on the edge. You have various different shortcomings that you might want to check out. Because it going through that type of trauma during your development stage hinders your development. See, that's why for us, Ray Ray, at Christmas Network, our whole goal is to disciple men to be good dads. We believe that strong men, and we're talking about faith and internal character, strong men make strong families, strong families make strong churches. And we believe that the strong church is a hope of the world, that when people find faith, they find their center. And so to raise up dads who know how to hug their kids and then know how to ask them, you know, and say to them, one of the things we've been talking about recently is say to them, well, tell me more. Yeah. You know, I mean, it's just, it's what, hey, how you doing? I'm good. Okay, cool. You know, that's kind of what we do as men, but a dad needs to say, no, tell me more. Yes, I remember doing an interview back when I was in school, and they told me what's the difference. They asked me what's the difference between a brother and being a dad. And I think one of my quote was, okay, the brother question is, you know, how are you doing today? And then the dad question to be like, how you feel about living here? Wow. And it's more so me doubling down and engaging in how you feel and your emotional well-being, and as well as your physical well-being, because I went through trauma, and the fact that he's separated from my mother and his parents that that gives you a point on the trauma score, the separation of parents, things like, you know, seeing law enforcement that gives you another point, being abused verbally or physically, that gives you another point, being sexual abuse gives you another point. And so, but these various different things, see, my score is at eight out of ten. Dude, and some of the issues, you get over a three, and you're not only, you just blasted past three, right? Yes, yes. So at my score, I'm 1200 times more likely to commit suicide than average person. Jesus. That's the importance of fathers, isn't it? Yes, that's the importance of fathers, and just the knowledge in kind of knowing yourself as well. You know, we've got a, we're doing a special, it comes up, Father's Day this year, using the boy crisis, a book by Warren Farrell, and of course, you know, a number of things from the Bible and practical application from counselors. But fatherhood seems to be one of the core issues in our culture. Do you find that? I mean, when you start telling your story, do you have people come back to you with, oh, yeah. Well, this is what happened to me, there must be, it must open up quite a bit. Yes, yes, because I learned through self disclosure, people become close. So I typically try to build relationships with the people that I talk to. So I tell a lot about myself, and which in turn tends to make people want to open up about their things, because a lot of people just don't want to be alone. So before we go into a lot of trauma, we want to know someone would be there and be like, hey, I know where you should be in through, because it's hard to kind of just tell all your stories and tell all the things that you've been through with someone that you don't feel, that you don't feel understands that, because it feels like a disconnect is like it. You don't, you don't know my struggle, and it's hard for me to kind of just open up, because at the same time, I'm telling you about my pain, I'm telling you why I'm vulnerable at, and vulnerability is not seen as a masculine trait in the world we live in today, but it's probably the most masculine thing you can do. Yeah, you know, you're so right now, because that's, we were talking about that the other day, me and a couple of friends of mine, some guys, we were talking about Jesus and his disciples and the things that they shared with each other. And somebody we got to talking about community, brotherhood, and the phrase that came out of, you know, I would like to say it was mine. I think it kind of, we all came up, but it was the matrix of community is vulnerability. Out of vulnerability comes community and brotherhood, and that's where you got to ask a guy, how you doing, and replace, I'm good, and then you say, no, really, how are you doing? Right? You know, and one of the things that just sharing between you and me, one of the things that we've gone through, the father wound is a huge thing for most men at different levels, right? Yes. Because expectation and reality, the difference between expectation and reality is the level of disappointment you have in your life, the expectation of your dad, the reality of how he lived. And then, and then as we get older, we kind of begin to realize, wow, there were these other things, you know, pressuring him. Yes. So, no, no, but we're sorry to cut you off, but I don't, I don't think many of us recognize that. Yeah. Because in order for that, because the world we live in today, a great majority of us are surviving and not living. Yeah. And if we're, if we're just surviving, it's hard to reflect when you're surviving, when you're worried about tomorrow. And then if it's, if it's hard to reflect, then a lot of us don't get to a point where we could take in account my parents' perspective. Wow. Because a lot of us, a lot of us don't know our parents' story. We haven't delve in deep enough because where the expectation is always for our parents to come to us and access how we feel and try to delve into us emotionally. Right? As it is not until a lot of us can get older to even understand it to ask our parents, hey, like, you know, how was your life coming up? Like, what was your childhood like, you know, how was your dad and how was your mom? And so based on these particular things, you can ask yourself the question, like, okay, well, why, there's a reason my mom treats me the way that she treats me. It's not always the drugs, but this is probably how she was raised. This is what she knows to be right. And a lot of times it's to unlearn something. It's three times as hard as learning. I mean, maybe ten times as hard as learning, because especially once you get to a certain age, and by the time you're grown up and you become a parent, by the time you're grown up and you become a parent, then you begin to find out these things, these things that you don't know coming up, because you haven't had that experience, but you gain it, and then you realize, hey, I'm a little different. You know, one of the things that we help men do, Ray-Ray, is we take them through a process of forgiving their dads. I've had guys actually write letters and take it to their dad's grave sites, and I forgive you, because the power for forgiveness, you know, when we think about, and from our background and faith in Christ, you know, we think about his forgiveness on the cross, it opened up heaven to us, right? So forgiveness always opens, unforgiveness closes. So the thing that we've helped men walk through is that process of dad, I forgive you. I totally absolutely forgive you. And here's the other thing it does, it's fascinating. Proverbs 4 says, the what you hold in your heart is what you become. We define men based on their hands. What you've been talking about is how we define men based on their heart character. But what you keep in your heart is what you become, because what's in your heart is what you're going to become. That's why some of the issues of addiction or pornography or some of the other things, when men keep things like that in their heart, try to keep the secret, they end up acting out of their heart. And forgiving our dads releases that from our heart. And that has been probably, I would say of all the things we do in our discipleship training, mentoring of men. That's probably one of the key things we've ever done, Ray Ray, is for men to forgive their dad, and if you will, release it from their lives. So I think this is a great picture of what we need to do on that. And where's Faye Marnout, man? Faye Marnout lives in South Carolina. I'm actually trying to get him to move back to Atlanta now. I got some stuff I'm trying to do with him, and I wanted to be a part of him being up there. It's a little difficult. Yeah, I know where, I know we move through zone now. It's different. Yeah, yeah, it's not the same. Hey, tell me about your foundation. Yes, my foundation where I'm going to begin the stages of it. My thought process is that it'll be a coordinated effort to help individuals and families like myself. I'm looking to do inpatient, whereas I basically adopt families. And we start with, because I have a background in behavioral health and mental health, so do like a psychosocial and kind of work. Just like you would get a kid and you'll do a pre-test and to see where they at before you put them in a great level, similar to that is one of the things you come in and will assess you just regularly and figure out what your A score is, just something simple. And you know, to try to figure out your childhood traumas and where you fall short and say if we can pick up the slack for you. Now you two people, yeah, you actually had, you ended up out in Los Angeles actually doing some of that, helping people. Yes, I worked in a homeless outreach program called Hoppix as a family crisis specialist. Wow. It's incredible, man, I, you know, you would never wish in that sense anything like you're upbringing on anyone and all your siblings, brothers, and sisters, and on Faimar. And yet you can see the hand of God putting you in a place where you're going to help thousands of people, I believe, in years ahead. And so I just want to mention again, and the foundation is Ray Ray Safety Foundation. Ray Ray Safety Knit. Yeah, so it's Ray Ray Safety Knit dot com. And so I just want to encourage people to get a hold of it, get a hold of the movie, watch it, and then go look up your stuff, you know, and get involved. And even if it's just encouragement, or if you can throw some finances that way, whatever it takes. Well, I'm looking to put together a network of individuals. And so we're in the doing that, and you end up with a network, yep? Yes. So I want everybody to come with me, and we'll do it all together, because how I want you to do it is that I'll keep you informed about what we're doing together, because it's not just me doing something, it's as a group, it might be an email blast, like, hey, this is what we're doing, this is why we're doing it. And so I want everybody to be a part of it, because I think, because I was raised by a village, so I think it'll take that type of effort. And so I want to incorporate my village, and all the people that are willing to come with me, and who say, when they send me messages, that they want to inspire, and that they inspire. So if you feel that way, come with me, let's continue, let's continue to do this. The movie is called Safety, it's on the Disney Plus. Let me ask you this quick question, then Ray Ray, how did faith play in all of this to give you strength? Oh, it was a paramount. As I tell people, there have been many nights I set with God, and me coming to God moments is those times where I heard a quote, where you hear the quote often where God never puts more than you can bear, and it's not necessarily the truth, but I feel that God puts enough on you that you understand that you need God like this. Yes. Yeah, I tell you, you're talking about masculinity, man, he didn't lower the bar, he raised the bar. Right. And so it's almost like there have been my coming to God moments, as I call them, where I cry, and even now, I've set donations to people just like, hey, I told God that night I was crying in the bathroom, that if he blessed me, that I'll continue to spread those blessings. And here's that, here's my promise to God, that here's just a contribution that I can give. It might not be much $100, $100, $50, but here's my contribution, because I told God, if I'm okay, that I'll make sure I'll look out for everybody else. And that as far as faith is concerned, it's paramount, like my main mentor at Clemson was of my pastor, a gentleman named Jeff Davis, and as far as life lessons are concerned, I would feel like he taught me a great bit of life lessons, don't be how to become a man and me seeing a man, the man of God nonetheless, and how he walked and how he moved and the faith that he had. And then not that he's perfect, because he will remind me always that I'm not perfect guy. I've been on this long walk with God, so don't think that you have to be perfect on this walk with God. And there's other things that have happened in my life that like show me that God has a plan for me, and that's how I always move forward, like God got me, because what else could there be if God has me, if I have faith in Jesus, and I'm doing well, and even if I'm not doing well, but God got me. So at the worst case scenario, I die, but then even then life is better after that. So I'm not necessarily worried about the day-to-day, and I've been hit by a tractor trailer and things like that, well I've been in accidents where I wasn't supposed to make it, and I come out unscathed, so it's like, I know God has a plan for me, and then with everything else that's going on, like, how can I deny God's plan for me, like, how can I be like, oh, no, I'm, because I tend not to try to take credit for anything, because I understand the law at work in my life. Yeah, you know, I, I, that speaks to the phrase, I love, I grabbed the hold of a couple of years ago, a guy wrote a book, he said, on your worst day, on your worst day, God still loves you with a passion. Yes. And so when Jesus said to pray, he said, pray this way, our father who are in heaven, because he created for us an image who God is, and Raymo, and I want to, I want to just give you props for what you did in some difficult situations, to be a dad, dear brother, to, to your sister, and now taking that in the power of the Holy Spirit and touching people's lives across the country, man, it's fantastic. Thank you, thank you. That's right. God willing, as I would say, God willing, let me finish it with this, is the quote you left in the Esquire magazine, but I thought it was great. The guy was talking about you, you know, showing up, and now in this interview, I heard something I hadn't heard before about your dad showing up, and he did. And, but in it, you, you, kind of a football expert, well, it is a football expression. He said, it's like this, work on three, that's it, man, it's just, it takes, it takes work. And so good for you doing the work, doing the stuff, and Lord Blessing, everything you're doing. Yes. As I tell people, the Will Smith quote, the Will Smith got it from somebody else, it stuck with me because I heard Will Smith say it, in order for me to be free, I have to be free. And I have to be comfortable with who God made me to be, and all the things that come along with being a human, all the shortcomings as well as all the, you know, the triumphs. And so I'm happy where I'm at and who I am, so I have to continue to be free. How old are your children? Well, I have a son who's seven and his brother, which I, you know, I claim as well, he's 10. He's 10. Well, that's fantastic, man. Well, Lord Bless you and that stuff. And it's great being with you. I've been with Ray Ray, Michael Rathbape, and we just know him as Ray Ray, Ray Mone. And know him as Ray Ray from the movie safety. And Lord Bless you, man, and our prayer would be that everything you touch would prosper and every place you put your feet would be holy ground and God would keep you safe within the grip of his grace and his love. God bless you, bro. Amen. Paul, it always amazes me when we're able to take spiritual realities and have practical realities be made in front of us through people, you know, and we can take this story and we can just allow it to go in one ear and out the other or we can take this story in a beach challenge and see how we can improve our lives and look at our schedules like you were talking about earlier and see how can we do better about being the man that is there for our family, our friends, our community, our church, our pastors, our leaders and leave the impact that God has called us to leave. Yeah, I think of the book Never Quit that we have a whole series on YouTube. And it's called You Can Look Up Monday Night Men, Three Words, or Krishmin's Network, basically all one word, the algorithm on YouTube. And that whole series Never Quit, 13-week series is on there, you can go through that. And I think of Ray Ray as that kind of guy, Never Quit. It's, you know, you pick yourself up with the presence and the power of God that you accept responsibility. Yes. And that's what he did. He accepted responsibility. And that, you know, I think, also a power of potential, a life of Joseph, who accepted responsibility for his life and for the people around him, even though he was in dire strates. Yes. And the thing about Ray Ray is, you know, he's humble about it, you know, he prefers others. And I think part of, when we talk about the Never Quit series, it really is about, I am my brother's keeper. Yes. And you need friends. And you need brotherhood. You need to be, when we talk about the Ministry of Men with Krishmin's Network, it's about being with some other men. And there's no place greater that you could be than in a local church. Yeah. And Ray Ray found that what community meant. And what it still means to him. Yeah. And in terms of church, community, people around them, you know, he's moved. You know, he's, he's had a couple different things that have gone on and, but man, he just stays after it. You got to, you have to keep pushing forward and the easiest way to keep pushing forward is when you have somebody that you're locked arms with. You know, that person that, man, I really don't want to go to this today. But it's like, no, bro, we got to go. You know, when you have that person that just pushes you and motivates you to keep on going, it's a game changer. You know, and I love that just, you know, and that's what I love most about sports. Because when you have that guy, like I'll never forget when I was playing high school basketball, me and my friend showed up late to the game and we were down by 20 points, down by 20 points. And we looked at each other when we got to the bench. Our coach was mad that we were late. We were mad, we were late. But back then, we didn't drive. So we were at the mercy of our parents in the, really. So we showed up late, but I'll never forget when we found our coach finally forgave us and put us in the game. We looked at each other and we said, bro, we're not losing this game. And we ended up coming back long story short and winning by 20 points when we got showed up and we were down by 20 points, but that's brotherhood, that firing up, that one voice of life to say, hey, we're not going to allow this to happen and it just sparked something in you to do better, you know, and that's what we picked the other guys up. Yeah. And that's what we do. Yeah, I've seen it when teams can get down and really sometimes you can see it just takes one guy. Yeah. You know, what's the guy with Portland? Terrible losers. Oh, gaming literally. Yeah. You know, he turns around. I remember one game he was in. He turned around and he just looked at his guys. You know, he's not emotive. I mean, he hit a game when he shot and just turned around and go, yep, you know, but he turned around and looked at his, at the minute around him and he said, we're not going to lose this game. Yeah. And he did something in them. And that's the story, right? Yeah. And that's the story that we have to have as men for others. Remember what Chris said at the mid break, Christmas network, CMN dot men. And then that majoring in men, I got a couple of texts this week from guys, well, emails, excuse me, emails from different pastors who had gone through it and they said, man, this stuff is gold. It has absolutely helped us reform what we do as a church and a ministry to men to disciple men. And so majoring in men dot com. And it used to be a hundred dollar fee and then our bunch of our partners in the getting 300 stepped in and said, you know, we're going to sponsor the whole thing. So the men, so your way is paid. Yes. Now, you get on there for free. But it's basically what it means is somebody's paid your way. Yeah. You get on at majoring in men dot com, a few thousand churches now across the US that are using materials, the maximize manhood series, never quit what we just talked about, power potential, which we're in the middle of on YouTube right now. So these are remarkable things that will help men grow. Yeah. And the reason why our partners took stepped in and invested was because they believe in you and they believe in your men and they believe in the ministry that can come out of it. They're not soon results. Yeah. They've seen it work. So that's why it just get involved. You know, you're going to see the fruit because that's the right thing and you just said it. It comes back to fruit. You know, is there stuff that actually sticks? Yeah. You know, and that's what that's what we're out. We're after measurable, reproducible. Yes. And then long lasting, does it stick? The guy's actually changed. And I believe by the power God and the power of the Holy Spirit, men change their lives. And that's what we see in Ray Ray. So what we see is a little brother of a little brother's not so little now. Yeah. He was loving the time he's older now, but you know, it's amazing story to see that to hear that and to be a part of that. You know, thank you for being with us today on Brave Men. For all the tools that you need to disciple men, to minister men and local church, wherever you may be in 134 countries around the world, 18 different languages, we got all the Spanish materials you need, Portuguese materials, English, Indonesian, go around and down the line. I go to cmn.men, cmn.men. You know, it is, it is the passion of our heart to see the hearts of men change because we believe every child deserves a loving dad. Yes. So we'll see you next time on Brave Men. Remember hope is a live, hope has a name, hope's name is Jesus. Amen. You've just experienced Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian men's network. Connect with Paul at cmn.men or write to him at Paul at cmn.men.