BraveMen S3E74: Brad Lomenick - Innovation / H3 Leadership

We didn't start Brave Men, the podcast in order just to be able to talk or Or just talk to people or interview people It really was about helping us stretch and for me it has stretched me as I've met men like Brad Lomonick Because Brad with his book that he wrote who he is We spent time before the conversation that you're about to hear and after the conversation about to hear because I wanted to learn more from him about him These are the kind of men that stretch us and when we're stretched We increase and we have greater capacity with me today in Brave Men. I'm Paul Lewis Cole and with me today in Brave Men is Chris Shields And Chris you actually brought me this book some time ago. Yes. Yes handed to me. Mm-hmm. He said hey, you need to read this So I I did I grabbed it pulled it. I knew who Brad Lomonick was. Yes But I and I started reading the book and I'll go wait a minute. I've read this before Yes, it turned out I'd read it about four years ago and this thing it really and I told Brad this it really sparked some things in me and Am I thinking about about how I Run my life how I generate energy how I build Sabbath times in and and then also, you know, it's got things about how you think. Yeah, something like that It's called humble hungry and hustle. Yes It's B. What is it be humble stay hungry and always hustle always hustle the H3 leader H3 leader. Yeah, Brad Lomonick. So That but but with Christmas network we're all in over a hundred nations. Yes, I've been to 82 of those countries and And that one thing I've found that's a constant Chris is that if and it's where we get stuck as men We get stuck on we overanalyze things we have questions about ourselves about the things that we feel like we have dreams to do And we end up diminishing our lives and doing less than we could have done because we just don't go after it Yeah, and what Brad does in this conversation is help us look at Why we do this? Yeah, it's not just about us the same reason we're doing the the brave men podcast It's really about others. Yeah, exactly right and so if my life becomes larger It helps those who come behind me and it helps those people who I touch so good and if I don't do that I'm actually I'm actually robbing the kingdom of God. Yes. Oh, yeah of my gift and I'm actually Robbing my children. Yes, right? Yeah of everything they could be because I haven't gone after what I'm supposed to be Yeah, and I mean that's huge. We have to remind ourselves that we serve in a kingdom of love Yeah, so every time we're thinking on how we're gonna spend our time we have to filter it through love You know in a way we were talking about just this the other day, you know The way I try and manage my time will not try I manage my time is in the lens of love controlling time or you do manage it I try okay Well, but Yoda said but Yoda said there is no try. Yes, exactly only do exactly and I've been watching Star Wars a lot So In my time, but you know when we look at it through the lens of love Mm-hmm And we know that we serve in a kingdom of love. Yeah, it allows us to love controls time and it's amazing When you lead with love how much extra time you have that you didn't know that you had well That's true because too often we're very selfish What what Brad talks about in this book H3 leadership And basically it's called humble hungry and hustle. Yeah, is he talks about pursuing innovation he talks about Really living life with our eyes open about what's happening around us Particularly as Christians we can become very myopic very narrow. Yes, and we almost in a sense sometimes just say okay We're almost in denial. Yeah of stuff going on. Yeah, and Brad saying man stay open. Yeah, and this guy's been around Man, I mean this guy was the head of catalyst. Yep, right for 15 years. He was the president Which he helped start with John Maxwell and Andy Stanley and he's great leaders and so he's worked alongside Men like Jim Collins and Craig Groschall another great leaders and even today is a consultant into some of the largest Outreach's charities and ministries in North America. Yes, and this book. This book changed my life You know when I first started Um Thinking I was lead building leaders You know when you first thought you think you get it all you got it all figured out Yeah, you know, and then I got my hands on this book and it literally you know That's what built that thought that I was just sharing, you know, love controlling time If I didn't read this book I would have never have grabbed well in the scripture of course It was the combination of the revelation I received from the book right going back to the scripture and it was actually through Joshua That I learned that concept, you know, and it literally, you know, I talking to Brad I told him I said hey if it wasn't for your book, you know, it literally transformed my life So I really encourage you guys, you know, yes, we're going to be blessed by this interview But also go back and get your hands on this book, you know And it will change your life. It will enlarge you it will allow you to think differently about how you spend your time every day And and tell somebody about the podcast. Yes, go on air subscribe. Yeah share tell somebody about this because Every single week we've got this entire year 2021 is packed. Yes, already the men we know that are coming Yep friends that are coming on People were meeting because we wanted to meet them exactly you know that are coming on And all of this to stretch us grow us and largest And to help build strong men because what we say in christian men's network And you can find everything you need for discipling men on cmn.men And what we do in christian men's network is we say this Strong men make strong families. Yes, and strong families make strong churches And strong churches are the change agent in culture exactly right? Yep The church is the hope of the world yep, so great to have Brad Lomonick today on brave men It's brave men with Paul Lewis Cole wisdom and courage for the journey Talking with Brad Lomonick and and Brad is the author of a number of books. He's the co-founder of catalyst movement and events His man speaks in the life of leaders of leaders around the world within the christian world and within the world in general And Brad thanks for taking the time to be with us today on brave men I'm honored Paul excited to be here. We're we're catching up before and we know all kinds of the same people It's like we it's like we're friends that we didn't realize it. Yeah, that's exactly what we found I found out on our Facebook. We have let me check it here We have 104 mutual friends. There you go. We need to invite all them to a party. We you and I can host it Yeah, whether well yeah, you know, and actually if we can monetize that it'd be fantastic You're right You know, but Brad you out all should actually do a will really a well received podcast And you've got all kinds of things going on speaking into the hearts of leaders But but a lot of that if you will Really where you are today and once since came out of in the middle of being very successful Cadalyst huge events all this stuff You hit a speed bump. I mean basically you hit a speed wall Right, yeah, and there was a there was as you have written about in In this great book on leadership h3 you call h3 leadership, but it's humble hungry and hustle And you wrote about you hit a moment where it just kind of started coming apart Tell me about that and how did you actually know that it was coming apart? Well, it it I think for many of us as leaders we get to the point where there is a There's all kinds of things that are that are decaying on the outside And starting to get toxic But yet we don't we're sort of like the boxer Who will never tap themselves out of the ring? Yeah, especially if you're a you know A type A you're ambitious. You're in any grand three which I am. I mean you're you want to charge the hill You don't give yourself permission ever And I think the thing Paul that for me was the key to you know, sort of the speed wall moment was I had an outside voice An outsider that said to me Steve Cochrane we were at lunch in the summer of 2013 Well, and we were up into the right Organizationaly My influence personally was growing it up to the right we were having major success But he said I think you're back in the day back in the day was that a back then was that a cue factor or something like that Well, this was just related to catalyst. I mean in I mean, you know having the influence People know influencers wearing you That's right. I remember. Yes. That's right. You could like you could figure out your influence factor. Yeah Yeah, and so you were that guy Well, I don't know if I was that guy. Yeah, you were. No, I know man. I felt like there was for me, you know This this this this level of influence I was carrying and yeah, he just Steve said to me listen I think you're done You need to take a break and we need to reevaluate sort of where you are in life and oh because he said that I gave myself permission And I remember that fall we were walking on the Tim's river in London Mm-hmm, and I said what are we doing today Steve because he was kind of walking me through my sabbatical and this time away He he said we're killing Calus Brad And I kind of laughed and I said what he goes we're killing Calus Brad and I said well, what does that mean? He said we're gonna we're gonna have a moment here to To actually allow you to bury the identity that has become incorrectly wrapped around your whole axle Wow, and it was such a powerful moment And it was kind of cheesy, you know, I mean at the end of the day like a ceremony to kill this this person you had become But it was so helpful Because what had happened is identity Calling and assignment for me had all become catalyst And correctly and it really at the end of the day it was only an assignment You know, it wasn't even a calling for me. It was an assignment. It was a season of vocation That I was stewarding but it hit it got wrapped up in my calling statement And and and then obviously and correctly in my identity and this is true for so many of us as men You know, we we we walk we we have a hard time moving on to the next chapter of the book because So much of our sense of worth is built on the previous chapter And we think that's the only chapter. Yeah, most most men are identified by what they do with her hands You know when Samuel looked at Eliad the older brother of Of David he said oh this guy must be the king when he went to Annoyed the king of Jesse's house and and that's when God said that famous thing to Samuel where he said You know what you're looking on the outside. I don't look on the outside. I look on the inside And most men identify themselves based on what they do with her hands, but God looks at him and based on who he is in his heart Right. Yes, and let me get let me go some background to this catalyst Uh, when did catalyst actually start when was your first event? I was in 2000. Yeah back in back 20 years ago Yeah, catalyst was this gathering Basically what it's called catalyst. It was a gathering of Christian leaders From really around the world, but it started I guess with across North America Gathering together for best practices for uh, encouraging each other And I mean it seemed to me when you started it blew up the moment you started these events became large Yeah And so catalyst when we talk about that for someone who doesn't have that background became this highly influential Uh, series of events Uh, you have the top speakers in the world in fact you have a number of them in this book And again, I'm going to recommend this to people. It's it's on amazon. You can get it to Barnes over whatever wherever you get find your books. If you got this in an audio book too Yeah, it is. It's available audio On any of those outlets. Yeah any of the audio audible.com so forth But it's called humble hungry and hustle and lominic l-o-m-e n-i-c-k Brad Lominic h3 leadership and then of course you've got websites for that effect But I'm gonna recommend guys get this and uh and actually It pulls you in it pulled me in when I first read it a couple years ago Not just that on the on the burnout part, but what you learned out of that yeah Because you learned uh, okay, let's okay. So that's the background and now here's we're bearing the fact that your whole identity was based on what you do with your hands Yep So now the up and down of that of course is that if you had a great event You're up Sure, you have bad event. You're down Yeah, right So everything begins to be based on performance And and that became a trap for you Yeah, and and the weight of carrying something you know many of us outkick our coverage Wow leaders like we if we're if we're not self-aware enough to realize I don't even deserve this. I'm not smart enough and that's okay You know, I mean that's freeing as well. It's it's all these things that we get trapped into when we start um when we start realizing that That we if we're not if we're not congruent Between the private and public but also between the self-awareness and you know, whatever body's telling us Yeah, I promise you Paul like when I left when I when I stepped out of running catalyst all these people that love me before And would call me all the time and hey buddy. Hey friend. I let you know Appreciate you they they will they went away, man. I haven't heard from them in six years You can't you can't there's no speaking Exactly It's right, man, and I get it like I understand that but um you know that's so many of us we walk out of these seasons You know NFL professional athletes are the same way right they they get done with football and they played in the NFL for 10 years And now they're 33 and looking at life going well It might just on the JV team now from you know for the next 50 years No, it was just a season. It was a season of assignment. I want to get back to that about Steve having the the balls to just hit you You know strong about where you were at. Yeah, don't want to hit that right now because there's there's a number of with all the pandemic quarantine We know suicide rates are up. We're gonna talk about that in a minute divorce rates so forth interesting study and the fact that I was reading the Washington Post is also interesting but The Washington Post just came out with an article when they talk about how men The lives of men are degradating because of the lack of friends And what they said was their their actual real stories were men who went bowling together or they were or they played baseball You know softball together or whatever and they thought those were their friends Always to find out when they're not doing that anymore But they never talked to those guys and then remembering that they never really talked to them About stuff that mattered And I think we have to have friends like Steve Yeah, the people who will speak truth into your life whether you wanted or not Yeah, and whether you needed or not even at that point Um, you know bob bob golf calls it your eight Yeah, and and it's those eight who are gonna carry your casket It's it's the it's the website The bedside and the dead side, you know that the eight who were with you at your wedding Probably with you at your at your bed in the hospital and they are with you as they carry the casket At your dead side, you know and figuring out in it and eight's not the you know perfect number But yeah, what who is that circle that is doing life with you and they will speak truth into you Yeah, that's so important Yeah, it's huge it's a brotherhood in fact Um, it's it's a hat I'm wearing right now and it's the I was gonna say I need one of those by the way I need it. I need that hat That's okay. Okay. Okay. We'll get we're gonna see you some swag, man You know then take then take too long just to catch the hint Yeah, I tell my wife all the time just tell me what you want. I don't get hints But I but I got that one Brad Hey, the thing is the whole brotherhood piece, you know, I love that whole I think about the eight and and it's Steve was actually willing to talk to you and confront you Uh Faithful are the wounds of a friend David said Yeah, and David also wrote later. He said, you know There was uh plet there were pleasant words on your lips, but there was war in your heart Mm Talking about betrayal. So what did you do now? This guy comes to you says Brad, you know, you've got this amazing thing going everybody's coming to it Your face is on the front of charisma Whatever got your own magazine all this stuff's going on But dude, uh, you're getting hollowed out. What did you do? Well, I I mean, I took a break which was crucial and it was two or three months So and you know sabbatical or whatever you want to call it I mean time away is is so crucial to get perspective Um, and I and I really like sought both You know the the spirit to give me insight, but also I sought Wise wisdom from friends and from people that I respected Um, and you know the the the key though was that I allowed for that season of just two or three months To be a transition And if if we don't transition well out of things we build We end up spending the rest of our lives tearing down the thing that we actually built I mean, you see with founders so much Paul like you and I know a lot of founders Yeah, organizations ministries non-profits companies And they walk away from something they built and then they spend the next 20 years like trying to tear it down Yeah, and it's because they don't transition well So for me again killing Calus Brad like that sense of this is just a season of assignment Brad This is the next chapter of the book is going to be better. It'll be different. It'll be better And a lot feeling that freedom was so life giving and uh, you know, now I can show up at Calist events or places Where you know people go hey, is this weird and I'm like no it's not weird at all man. I'm for this team and I What I believe in them and I believe the best in them Yeah, you know, and you took time away and in your book you recommend that people take a couple times a year To just step back and reflect does that mean I would actually have to turn my phone off, bro Well, yeah, I mean maybe Uh, I think a lot of us I think of all of us we we actually When we find out that's true. We're like yes. Thank you finally somebody Somebody told me to turn my phone off Yes, I mean it's getting quiet and and and and reflecting but also like allowing the spirit to speak and we're so noisy Yeah, gosh, uh, I mean, don't you think Brad do we find comfort in noise? Oh, well, yes because it it makes us one one it um It actually the removes that it removes the awkwardness um You know, it's it's sort of like small talk noise to me is like small talk it it allows for me to have any excuse Be beyond the real like hard work of getting to the point Hmm, and you know, so this this is why I'm such a proponent Paul of for me like uh running But anything outside And I am so in on hunting fishing Um running and it's not because those things are like the best options, but what it does is it forces me Into places that will quiet my soul Yeah, and if I quiet my soul God will speak you know and and but we're sometimes we're afraid we're gonna hear yeah Boy, that's a that's a huge thing right there. Don't you think sometimes Brad we're afraid of the quiet Absolutely. Yes. Yeah, and and you know, we're especially again that the higher we're up the ladder of influence The more power the more prestige the more notoriety the more followers that you know the more people working for us the more we have to lose The harder it is for us to gain Those moments of quiet because not only are we fighting for for margin But we're also fighting against people in our world who who end up telling us things we shouldn't be hearing We we end up like listening to people we shouldn't be listening to because all they're doing is just very redundantly like giving us praise or you know Brown knowsing us. Yeah You know uh you taking the time actually helped you And and getting to the quiet one of the things that we talk about with christian minnes network is that Vision is forged in the discipline to extract yourself from the unnecessary Mm-hmm and uh that focuses not about a greater intensity. It's about greater intentionality And too many men try harder make more noise Rather than what Jesus did he would I mean I mean think about it right he turns 30 years old Which of course, you know, there's all the types and shadows on that has to do with when a man becomes a rabbi and so forth Comes a qualified teacher So he turns 30 and the moment he turns 30 he turns over the family business to his brothers And he moves the cappernium Yeah Which means a place of peace and it's in it's on a lake which I'm like I'm in on that But Jesus did that he found those quiet moments to and he created and I'm looking at this is page 186 because I actually made a note of it Hey 186 in your book and we're talking with Brad Lomonick on humble hungry and hustle H3 Leadership Lomonick OME NICK so grab the book on anywhere finer books are sold and uh but margin Yes, I Dude, I'm telling you Judy and I have Been at times where we knew we weren't operating our marriage within you margin We were not I knew I Realized I wasn't yeah, and he didn't you get running so hard. You're like how do I Get back to that place of margin tell me about that and tell me why it's important and and help me get there Well, it used to be cool that your schedule was full. It's no longer cool Yeah, it's no longer cool that you're you you're like well, I don't have a I don't have a 15-minute window until Nine months from now me get over yourself that that first of all We we think busy is the goal and it's not So margin you know this like margin in finance gives you opportunities to To invest in things that are long-term margin and family gives you memories and moments You know the margin in friendships creates experiences Margin in your schedule allows for again the noise to be removed So that's why I put margin by the way Oh, I put margin in the hustle section because here's the thing I get we all have a picture of hustle That looks doesn't look like slowing down and having margin and Sabbath But I want you to crush just like you crush, you know getting to the top. I want you to crush the Sabbath and margin Are you are you hustling towards making making a rhythm of life that allows you to have These points of rest and reflection and Sabbath and slowing down Because it's equally as important and that's where hustle for me is different because that people will say well Brad What do you mean hustle like does that mean like I'm you know, I'm trying to get I'm trying to get to the top and make sure nobody else gets there. No It's equally as much that you are willing to work hard But it's also that you're willing to rest and have rhythm in in the process So, you know like for example nowadays I'm I'm I'm doing two hours a day For me of running walking reflecting praying Um and people say Brad I can't do that. Yeah, you can you can do it You can figure it out because all of us are in control Even for if you say I work for a boss who you know would never allow me No, the game has changed everybody's remote Everybody's virtual We live in a new world, so we don't have an excuse anymore To allow ourselves to not put margin in the you know the big rock in the buck in the in the In the bowl or the big rock in the jar Has to be that sense of margin that has to go in first I have a friend who told me years ago. He said you know, I can get 12 months of work done in 11 months, but I can't get 12 months of work done in 12 months Yes Hey, this is Chris. I want to take a moment right in the middle of this great conversation to let you know the braveman Podcasts a production of the Christian men's network worldwide Christian men's network has helped pastors and leaders disciple men for over 40 years You can find all the resources for mentoring and fatherhood at cmin.min That's the Christian men's network at cmin.min There is a fresh new study every week called power of potential that just started Monday night men is a new resource for men and pastors as a pastor You can follow up the 30-minute study with a digital meetup with your men for prayer discussion and Some churches are using the videos as part of a group meeting As an individual in large energize and build a strong mindset This 13-week study will be on YouTube and Facebook get your books and materials at cmin.min That's the Christian men's network at cmin.min Stop what you're doing take your phone tablet or computer and like us on Facebook Follow us on Instagram follow us on Twitter unless you think you're going to lose the podcast and That case make yourself a note That's the Christian men's network or Paul Lewis Cole now. Let's get back to this powerful interview between Paul and Brad Lamanick And every single I know Paul like this the people that are that are at the top of the food chains that I really respect as leaders that are healthy and Some of many of them in their third and fourth quarters This is the lessons they're given me. Yeah, so I'm I'm watching too many of my friends who are younger They're burning out by 27 or 30 and I'm listening to these sages who are saying no, you got to do a different. You got to do a different guys going forward Yeah, yeah, even the general market, you know guys like Gary V. You know of Andrew Chuck He talks about that now and he was a guy that was like you know years ago. It was like crush it everything was Right I should kill it You know out of hustle all that and he's had to redefine that In his own life Yeah, and he would say Gary V would say this is not for all of us, you know Even even for he realizes that he's wired a certain way. Oh, yeah. No, he's a freak exactly. Yeah, so There's some guys that are you know, it's it's when you meet a guy who's actually an NFL linebacker And you know look at him and how tall he isn't strong and thick and and he goes go dude Okay, so you're just a physical freak There's no lazy either. That's the thing Martin margin doesn't mean you're lazy. No It it means it means you have a healthy rhythm in place. Yeah And this is one thing you talked about early in the book in fact right in the front Is you got right into and I love the I really appreciated your book because you didn't give me a whole bunch of like You know I was born to share poor sharecropper's son or something you know. Yeah, one of those deals You didn't start there you went right into okay. This is what happened here's the burnout thing Steve came Come front of me my team when I told my team. I'm gonna take some time off. They all went yep Yeah, we thank you finally And then uh, so we call that confirmation And then uh, uh, but you got right into habits tell me about that Yeah, I mean there's 20 habits in the book and I mean that's a lot of habits But those 20 fall into the buckets of the three h's of of humble hungry and hustle and You know, it's it's really built around the The premise that for me I had to redefine what I felt like Effective leadership and healthy leadership was gonna be for the next 40 years of my run And and so you know habits are the I would say the framework That allows you to then put things in place that will last So you know that that for me was the sort of the aha was if I'm gonna give this framework of h3 Then I've got to give some tangible Hooks for people to hang their coat on and the habits are that Yeah, I and I thought yeah, you you carried the habit of innovation the habit of generosity Yeah, you carried it all the way through and and the predication for that was that And it was something I guess I had heard before but when you wrote it in here for some reason it really hit me Was a 40% of what we do every day. It's just happened. Yeah And and part of that of course you you know like you I study read love this stuff and it has to do with the brain Uh because it wants you to survive So it's trying wherever it can decrease the amount of energy needed to to uh navigate today It does that and it creates habits because then you have to think about like when you take a shower Which arm do you start with you know? Exactly. It's it's it's how you drive to work. It's why the other night I drove somewhere and I made and Judy said why are you turning here? I went oh Is a habit I was going to the studio Yeah, I'm not going there and so we create these habits so we don't have to think about it ever And somebody who's listening right now if you ever arrived at work and you don't know we're actually driving there I know because you're it's so routine and hard The harder the harder the work is the harder the harder the habit you're trying to form the more you have to have a habit Right It's like the weight loss thing, you know, I'm I'm 60 pounds less than I was six years ago. Oh gosh I wasn't I was 250 pounds and I'm I'm around 190 right now Um, I put a habit of of exercise in place. Yeah And it really revolves and still does around running because it was the easiest thing to do wherever I am So now I don't I don't wake up every day and have to decide if I'm going to be a runner Yes, you've already made the decision. So that's what a habit is a decision is a forward thinking A put it in place. I have it You got it. It removes all the other decisions that Well, allow your own self to out to out like smart yourself Yeah, and you've got to make those those decisions when you're strong You got it. You can't make them out of depression It's the same way with with you know, losing weight based on food consumption If if you're the the way you put a habit in place of proper eating is you remove all the obstacles Hmm, if you've got a bunch of you know, if you got seven different snack items in the cupboard That are going to tempt you Well, it's the same with any addiction, right? It's yeah points. What's the trigger That caused you if a guy's listening right now and you got an issue with pornography. What's the trigger And maybe your computer in your house. Maybe you should only use your computer in your kitchen. Yes You know, where families walking in and out in other words remove the The trigger point and do that when you're strong so that So that it becomes a habit and running here. I'll only say I'll just say one thing on running bread Uh, because I ride a road bike and a dirt bike, you know off road bicycle and uh The one thing about difference between biking and running is that uh on bikes You see a lot of people smiling and you never see a smiling runner No Well, I I run to live. I don't live to run Anyway, sorry buddy. I just had to hit you with that one because But this this thing on habits of what what did that do for you Brad and and how did you put that into place? How do you how do you make a habit because it just How long does it take? I mean, what do I have to do to build this habit? Well, yeah, I mean again, it's it's around It's probably around something uh That is a pain point in your life. Hmm or or that you know you you're you're you're feeling Distress in or you're feeling like a sense of attention Um, but first you got to identify You know where those things are and then and then it comes back to Okay, let's put things in let's put a let's put a let's put a system in place and by the way the power of habit Is a great book. I mean, I want you to check out a three leadership, but Charles Duhig who wrote the power of habit right arguably one of the best books in terms of breaking down the the science of habit You know the whole the whole of like Q And system and reward sort of like circle That that ultimately comes back to again like you if you set things up effectively Where you now have put things in place that will allow for you to have a cue that then leads to you actually Making it systemic and then coming back with rewards that we you know that incentivize you Um, then all of a sudden you look back and go gosh. This is actually working and so it's you know It's and it's sometimes it's hard as leaders to like to changeably figure out and identify one of these habits that we need to put in place It's much easier for around weight loss or addiction or You know smoking or like there's some things. I mean we obviously can see yeah You know habit of self-awareness Is sometimes difficult to sort of like figure out. Well, where do I even start? You know, how do I like unpack that one? Yeah, what I found is that we as men in particular don't change Until the pain of staying the same becomes greater than a pain of Yes, so how do we do that? How do I do that as a leader Brad and thank you for taking this much time on brave men today talking with Brad Lomonick L O M E N I C K. I spell his name only because I want you to look it up and find all his materials and resources and get them into your life because Proverbs 4 says what you put in your heart is what you become Jesus said Matthew 10 he said out of your Out of the mouth out of your heart the mouth speaks and so how do I how do I as a leader? How do I build these habits, you know, you say they're somewhat intangible give me a couple that Any leaders should be you know, this is one thing I probably should be doing or two things Well, we talked about margin and I mean I would I would start there and the the habit comes back to okay Or let's start with a Sabbath Let's just start there like can you can you have one day a week where you are removing yourself from the things that are work Yeah You know, that's the habit that then starts to get put in place Habitat curiosity one of my favorites which is pretty simple Here's the here's the way you become habitual around curiosity is you ask more questions than you give answers In any environment at any time and again the great leaders I watch them and They have all the answers or they seem to be You know the answer man, but then they end up asking all the questions That's a fascinating observation, Brad because I've met you know presidents of nations and mother Teresa and You know different people over the years and the greatest people in other words top top top In terms of influence notoriety I never forget being with some of these guys and them asking me stuff Exactly to the point that I would say hang on hang on just have a few questions if you don't mind Yeah, it's like it's it's like you can't even get a question in because they're so curious Wow with you and they see that every every person every environment is a classroom That and this fantastic. What a great habit and you got us I mean we could we go all day because obviously your audiobooks probably eight hours 678 hours something like that on this it's fantastic, but the habit of curiosity Dude, that's huge because if we're not careful we get let's say we get into our forties And we've been killing some stuff and now here we are building our our business and we've got this welding business And we've got three trucks on the road And we could stop being curious about the next thing or the innovation or whatever And and basically by the time we're in our fifties we could start dissipating our lives Yeah, and it happens to all all kinds of leaders You know it the I think the thing too that I've learned watching leaders around curiosity And this is for all of you who are younger, you know or who are wanting to climb the ladder You want to get to the next level and your company You know you you want the CEO job or the executive director or the senior pastor job Part of the way you gain credibility is you ask really good questions And that will elevate your your credibility because what you do when you ask a good question is you honor someone It's actually honor at the end of the day a good question is honoring Because what I'm saying is as I really am interested in what you have to say Um and people remember Paul they remember the conversations Where they did the talking Right so yeah, there's just you know this is sales 101 it's persuasion It is when when I show up to try to Pitch somebody the best way of sometimes for me to pitch an idea is for me to ask a lot of questions You know friend of mine Leonard sweet wrote a book called the bad habits of Jesus Mm-hmm, and I just thought of that and I turned to a page that I remembered Because it's quote by somebody else Felix Fernandez We're talking about Jesus. Jesus always asked questions He's and Felix Fernandez says uh Jesus had the bad habit of not answering direct questions Exactly I love it That's just genius You you do you just you ought to you don't have to have their answers. I mean this is such a great This is such great news for all of us who are kind of knuckleheads in our Just ask a really good question. I just I thought in my 20s and 30s growing up and and I got into management at a young age by the age of 2223 I'm managing 50 people In a construction company of all things. So Nonetheless So all of a sudden I'm in this and so I always thought you know the hustle thing you already talked about I always thought that I always had to have the answer yeah And I mean it was a decade and and I found out in a very difficult way. I mean really difficult way that I wasn't the guy I had all the answers and I didn't need all the answers what I needed to do is figure out what the answers were by asking to write people Exactly Yeah, the posture is this you know again for young leaders just just a just a word of advice um Your posture has to be one where you're leaning in you know, you've got your mull skin out you've got a phone in front of you You've got even a yellow pad. I mean, but you're there to take notes right you're you're taking notes on the person that you're engaged with and compared to leaning back your arms across You're you have to know it all perspective that that is so like turn that's such a that's such a destructive, but also like detrimental posture as a leader and and a lot of young leaders Unfortunately, they're walking in to you know that meeting with their senior pastor And they don't even realize their posture is one of arms crossed lean back. I don't care. I know more than you I could do your job better than you can And that is such the turn-off Compared to just the opposite. I'm curious. I'm here to learn. I'm hungry. Well So much to offer me that I just want to soak every moment up with you I've got my got my phone out. I'm taking notes every time you open your mouth Man, that's so good and that is going to help some some people Brad some men In the company you're in uh, whether it's ministry general market whatever it may be That's huge because if you're working your way up and and we talk about that in a very manner because this is what we do and work as holy and If I want to be the general manager of a series of warehouses versus just driving the forecliffe How do I do that? I got a lean forward man at the front footed. That's what my pastor Phil Pringle talks about And I and boy you brought up some just some pictures in my mind of men who did that to me Um Bill Bright would be one Always leaned in. Yes Tommy Barnett Yes, Tommy Barnett he shakes your hand Z8000 people around he looks you right in the eye and he says You know, you're one of my favorite people in the whole world Thank you pastor Tommy Yeah, and then boom he's on the next but I feel like a million dollars walking out of there and Who else? I mean, there's a lot of guys I could go through a whole list of men who were like that Robert Schuller was like that Yeah, I left a leg I'm at Chuck Swindall Oh, when I met Swindall he was he was that way. Yeah That's that's amazing. I mean really when we think about the guys who left legacies think about it Okay, so Gosh, we could talk about this stuff forever. Jay Robert Clinton wrote that book 1988 the making of a leader Yeah, and and discovered and then 20 years later than the Redux or whatever you call it Secondary thing, but I guess I'm thinking of apocalypse now Redux but he does this Study and it's not only 30% of all Christian leaders finished strong And yet I think Brad 100% of us feel like we're not one of the 70% Sure, yeah, but so the stuff you're sharing is actually going to protect us From going off the cliff. So two more things real quick Because I'm grabbing a lot of your time here We've seen a lot of guys in and I want to talk about ministry. I want to talk about Christian leaders It seems to me and whether it's more visible And we didn't see it before because it wasn't as visible because social media, but we've seen an uptick And men who commit suicide who are in the ministry And it feels like but it's not Because I've seen it for years anyway, but we see guys on a regular basis tip over And when I say that it's either the misuse of money The misuse of their integrity It could be that you know the sexual Situation and our lives I don't know if those are linked, but there are two things that I just observed That's going on culture. Did you speak that suicide and to just Guys not keeping their Their morality together. Yeah, I actually had a gathering back in March all in Colorado Earlier this year with about 50 leaders younger leaders couple of days Darren Patrick who was one of those that unfortunately In the spring, you know, we all heard the news and he was with us. He was there sharing his story He was we were all taken notes. I mean he he seemed like he was in a great place He seemed like he was healthy We were sort of celebrating this new season for him that he was walking into to really help other leaders Man, we were of course we were all shocked, you know in May when we got the news a couple of months later and I say all that to say this First of all like I look back at that and say what could I have done? As Darren's friend. What is there anything I could have done more and the answer is yes Now I'm not holding myself accountable. I mean, I don't I didn't I wasn't like in his circle of eight But yeah, no it could I have reached out and the first thing I would say it's kind of like going back to what Steve did for me I have a I have a sense of responsibility now at the season of life That even if it means I lose a friendship I'm going to be so much more aggressive with with getting into the grill Wow of men who I who I who I I feel and I just sense from the spirit sort of Saying to me like hey, you need to reach out to them because here's the thing. I need the same thing for me And I if I don't have those kind of people then I'm gonna go off the rails like none of us are good enough Let me hit that real quick, Brad. In other words, you're saying Steve did that Whenever that was No, we're years ago. Yeah Then nine years ago something like that. Yeah But you still need that oh gosh, I need it even more now I need it to the till till the end of the of the race. Okay I've never arrived Okay, so this is not like hey one shot event defining moment. It's a reason to define you moments So brotherhood is is is got to be always active Consistently active and I want here's the thing. I want more people. I want I want to have to say Uncle stop enough like I need the I need more people speaking into my life because I am aware And this is part of being healthy as a leader. I am aware that I'm just a step away from being unhealthy Wow Which therefore I need to to have people who will keep me in the healthy zone Wow, I'm not that good enough and and this is I think we're so many of us We especially those of us who are believers and we carry a lot of influence in the Christian world Is everybody assumes that we got it all together? Yeah, and most of us are again We're one step away from being a total disaster. Yeah, you and you can start reading your own press. You got it Yeah, and the press I'm leaning in man I'm I'm making things uncomfortable for a lot of my friends these days and and the press you're reading is somebody on your team that Wrote it. Oh gosh. Yeah, cuz I want to raise It wants to keep their job. You got it. Yeah, if if you're only getting feedback from people you pay Man, that is a that is like a neon flashing sign right there. You know, I go back to It's a man is still a ministry his wife has gone native worse Jim Baker and I was Not Within the inner circle, but I knew all the inner circle guys and and I would go hang out and stuff And the thing I discovered is that as Jim began to walk down the path Uh, that eventually ended up with him in prison And I had to rebuild his his life and ministry and it caused His marriage come apart and everything and we all know all the stories, but But what I saw was here's what I saw Brad. I saw people on his team Telling him that he should have this stuff Yeah, now I can give you some other names of guys. That's the that's the easiest one because he's talked about it I'll give you a lot of names, so they haven't talked about it yet And you should have this Jim and you should have that and oh yeah, of course you shouldn't have to Do that because you're this guy And the and the reason that they were doing it they were wanting him to have let's say a major raise or a better car or House of the beach and a house of the mountains because they wanted to have stuff Sure So the higher they pushed him it pulled them up You got it and I can think of two guys in particular That I knew who they were that we're doing that and what they did is they they begin to slice away men Who were able like for for instance my friend Roger Flesing who ended up going out from P.K. L out to world vision and now is with What's that transport ministry that does I love Roger. Okay Roger I were across the hall from each other in college. Yeah, so knowing forever Well Roger was there he was on the inside speaking into Jim's life and he began to be cut away and pushed away By these guys who wanted their own stuff and they began to push Jim up and began to cut away guys like Roger and Alex And Jim and these guys that were speaking if you will corrective life And the Jim's life because he still today an amazing communicator persuader You know started his life in his wife doing a puppet show You know television in Virginia And built this amazing thing and it all fell apart because he allowed the wrong voices to come in and take over his life We've got to listen to the guys who make us uncomfortable Yes And sometimes they are on your team But many times they're not Yeah, as you're right it if I get paid by you Man, I am automatically I'm automatically got an asterisk next to the things I say Yeah So find people who are not who have no agenda and have nothing to gain from you That's really important my son Brandon who pastors see three church in For worth came out of our living room. He says this. He said to In fact, he said it on a zoom call the other day with some pastor friends He said, you know, it's really not a good conversation Unless somebody got uncomfortable Exactly Embrace the tension man embrace the tension It's That is healthy that's how stuff grows you got it change happens because it's painful Healthy things grow grow through cars change change is painful. Therefore. Yeah, therefore growth requires pain Yeah, I think of some of the stuff that Sam Chan has done on leadership About leadership pain Yes, and that kind of great book by the way great book. Hey Actually his favorite one that he's written and we've known Sam for years is the one he Panama canal. What was it called a bigger faster leadership something like that? Oh, yeah, but the Panama Canal was the basis for it fantastic So hey Brad Lomonick. Thank you, man L O M E in ICK and a reason I spell it for you so you can go on The internet find his stuff get his resources get the audio book because I know guys like like Walt I know you listen to audiobooks got many other friends who do that Dwayne you know who you are and then for those of us who actually read print We can get it on Amazon and humble hungry hustle H3 leadership Brad Lomonick Hey, man, we could actually talk forever and I want to get together with you again What I'd love to get on is a a call with you and Stephen Mansfield and a few other friends and just knock around some of this stuff for men But thank you Brad for what you do who you are And this what you've written and for taking an incredible amount of time with us on brave men today. Thanks bro This was fun Paul. Appreciate you having me on honor You know three the biggest things we need to remember in our life is to be humble stay hungry and always hustle And I think if you can stay focused in that area that is how you complete fullness in your life Yeah, you know To hustle this doesn't mean You know always strive. Yeah, it doesn't mean in fact, you know what we talked about in the book Just a bartender which is a book about identity was that Focus focusing relies focus isn't about just greater intensity. Yeah, it's about greater intentionality And so when we talk about these things with Brad and we talk about a hustle Too often what happens is we think you know, we've got to take our game up to the point where we're working 16 hours a day Yeah, and one of the things he talks about right away and this is Sabbath. Yeah taking time. Yep And I think it's really important That's why in the book the power of potential which we're doing the Monday night men on you mentioned at the mid-break That's why in there there's a there's one story. I think it's in chapter 10 where a husband and wife were talking about You know they they say they confess their sin they believe in Jesus Christ and And my dad doctor Cole talked to them and said you know, there's one thing you haven't done You haven't really trusted God wow to forgive your sin You know, so when we talk about hustle sometimes what happens is we're not trusting God exactly you know, we're trusting our own strength And so this is not about striving when he talks about hustling, but it is waking up getting up like you do You know getting up in the morning like I do you know do your pushups do your stuff do your workout do the things you know to do Exactly, right? Yeah, but the end result of all of this is going to be the increase of the kingdom by the power of God Not by our power our strength. It's going to be by the spirit of God Yeah, and I think hustle oftentimes when we look like our look at is running over people When in essence hustle is not about running over people It's actually about learning how to lock arms with them. Yeah, it's learning how to walk with them You know, and it's amazing the tempo that you learn when you take the time to walk with someone And that's the hardest part because you're just like especially I mean I'm preaching to the choir because I'm speaking to myself while speaking on this Because oftentimes I'm such a I'm a driver. You know, I want to get think. Yeah, give me a task. It's done You know, but at the same time learning how to lock arms and learn like I love Ephesians I believe it's chapter five verse two where it talks about imitating Christ But then or that's verse one and then you go down the verse two and it talks about walk Right, and I love acronym so I'm gonna give you one Willfully allow love knowledge when you walk you're allowing love to contact your heart in you And you're allows you to lock arms with someone you see what I'm saying and that's what true hustle is It allows you to be humble why because you're thinking about somebody else over yourself It allows you to be hungry why because you're not gonna just feed your own mouth You're gonna feed somebody else's mouth and it also allows you to hustle why because you're getting to the destination with someone Not just by yourself. Yeah, so So hustle with us to Monday night men And and be a part of that. Yes We can get we can find that on YouTube YouTube. Yep Facebook We got the christianman's network Facebook and Not only Brad's interview, but all sorts of tools resources A books materials things to help you grow larger in your life and be a stronger man and be the man you desire to be in the mandate That really your family needs you to be exactly that God designed you to be want to thank you for being with us today on brave men the podcast And this is a ministry outreach of the christian men's network. You can find this at cmn.man And look forward to seeing you the next time remember hope is alive. Hope has a name. Hope's name is Jesus. Jesus. Amen You just experienced brave man with Paul Lewis Cole Paul is president of the Christian men's network connect with Paul at cmn.man Or write to him at Paul at cmn.man You