BraveMen S3E70: Wisdom From a Legend - The Inimitable Gene Getz

It's not often that you actually meet a man who is truly a legend. But today you're going to meet him, his name is Gene Getz. Gene Getz was a teacher and academic and wrote a book about how churches should be. And because he wrote that book, he was challenged to actually start that church. He did, along with another group of friends called Fellowship Bible Church in Dallas in 1972, and now he became a movement that has gone around the world. He's not only done that, but he wrote basically a commentary on a Bible that's now become a study Bible that is fantastic. He was able to give us a little bit of time in the middle of shooting a bunch of videos with me today on Brave Men, as Chris Shields, our producer. And Chris is an amazing thing, you know. This guy is legendary. Yes. He's now in his 80s, is that right? Yes, he is. I mean, vibrant. But he hasn't stopped it. Oh, no, man. And he was doing 1500 videos. Yes, 150 zero zero. To go with this study Bible. Yes. And the study Bible, what's the name of it? It's the Life Essentials. Life Essentials. Study Bible. Interactive study Bible. And you could read, watch, and apply. And you've actually got a, is that a leather bound copy? Yes, an amazing Bible that he gave to us. Yes. And that you glommed on to. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. I have some taking full authority on that. Right, take your full authority. I mean, it's an amazing thing. An amazing man. He wrote a book called Joseph. He's written, he's written, you know, numerous books. Hundreds of books. And articles and books. And I think close to 100 books. And so, you know, Dr. Gets is one of these men that, you know, when he speaks pastors, leaders, around the world, listen, because he speaks with such great authority, such a depth. But he wrote a book called Joseph. And it was, what's the subtitle on that? Where's it? Overcoming obstacles through faithfulness. Yes. And in that, he dedicated that book number of years ago to my father, Dr. Ed Cole. Yes. And my dad was absolutely blown away, because he said, two of my heroes, he said, as he wrote in the forward word, Joseph, which is the books about, and Gene Gets. And then Dr. Gets dedicated the book to him and then asked him to write the forward. And he did, it's a book called Joseph Overcoming obstacles through faithfulness. And what's amazing about that is, dad had actually done a book just before that, called the power of potential. Yes. How your dreams have great potential. We've taken that, and that has become, that's become the theme of the first quarter, I guess, up through Easter of 2021 for Monday Night Man, the power of potential. Yes. I'm fired up about the whole thing. Powerful. Anytime you're talking about Joseph, I'm fired up. Yeah. Because it's just a phenomenal story of the tenacity of never quitting, never giving up, and still knowing that you can go through some junk and still be the champion. Dude. You know, and this is real, the thing about the stories in the word of God, like Joseph. It's real people. Yes. Really happened. It's historically proven narrative, the things that happened to him. And then there he is in prison, all the stuff that happened to him, falsely accused, on and on and on, betrayed, right? Yes. He goes through all of that, and out of all that, God brings redemption. Exactly. You know, overcoming obstacles. So Gene Getz wrote that book, dedicated to my dad, then, you know, then does the Bible, fellowship Bible church, this man is a legend. Yes, literally. And, and, and, you know, you think of somebody who's that well-known, that famous, and yet when we were, when you were booking him, yes, to be for us to get on a Zoom call and do this interview. He calls me. He called you and gave you his phone number. Yeah, gave me his phone number number one. And two, he said, Chris, how can I best serve you guys? Come on, man. That's what this man, after all the accomplishments, after all the accolades, everything he's done, he's still asking, how can I best serve you? But see, you know, being a young man, this is what inspires me, and this is what I see. And Gene Getz, your dad, you, and even the life of Joseph, and it's summed up all in this scripture, Psalms 1199 through 11. It says, how can a young man stay pure, only by living in the Word of God and walking in its truth? I have longed for you with passion, with the passion of my heart. Do not let them stray from your directions. I consider your prophecies to be my greatest treasure and I memorize them and write them on my heart to keep me from committing sins, treason against you. And that is what you guys exemplify. Yeah, you know, and Chris, you do this, and I want to get right into the interview with Gene Getz because it's powerful in a second, but, but this is something you and I talk a lot about because as a producer of the podcast, and a number of the things and tools that we do with Christmas network around the world, in over a hundred countries, you interact with a lot of people, and it's fascinating to take a guy like Gene Getz, and he's truly a legend, and an amazing leader of leaders, and he calls you and gives you his phone number. Yes. How many people is it that have said, talk to the ant, to you? Oh, I want a name chart. Who aren't quite close to being legendary? It really is, but they're a legend in their own mind. Yeah, it really teaches me what kind of person do I want to be? Oh, come on, man. You know, and that's what I've really learned from living life with you, and the Jim Garlo's, the Gene Getz, and all these mighty men of God that God has allowed me to do life with because it's like, you can choose who do you want to be? Do you want to live in your moment, or do you want to have a non-ending moment? You know, it's, yeah, Gene Getz is a man. To me, it's like my friend Robert Bearger, and I talk about Robert, and I say to people, he's a humble giant, because he just doesn't tell you all the stuff he's done, and Gene Getz is like that. I'm so excited today to have Gene Getz on Brave Men. You're going to enjoy this interview. It's Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole. Wisdom and Courage for the Journey. I'm with Dr. Gene Getz, and Dr. Getz, many of you have read his books. He's a writer, author, speaker, pastor, started to fellowship Bible church movement by planting a church in Dallas, and did it, Dr. Getz, you came out of a academic background. Yeah, that was interesting, right? I was teaching at Moody Bible Institute 13 years, and then came to Dallas Seminary, and was teaching in 1968. You know, there was a lot going on in the culture at that time, anti-institutionalism, middle of the Vietnam War, and basically, yeah. And so really, my church planting grew out of my interaction with the students at Dallas Seminary. Wow, they really challenged me. So in other words, you had to sort of, okay, if this is what I've been talking about, I'm going to have to prove it. Well, they challenged me. They said, they said, you know, prof, when are you going to go out and practice this? I said, well, I've got tenure, you know? They said, but anyway, yeah, that group of people in Dallas heard about what I was doing in the classroom. I'd written sharp in the focus of the church. Right. Go out of the class, and they invited me to a small meeting. And I shared, in essence, what was in the book, and then they said, hey, let's start a new church. Would you? Wow. That's how it got started. That's amazing. It wasn't a tumultuous time. So you just planted the church right at the end of the Vietnam era, right? Yeah, and then right at the launch of what we would call the Jesus people movement. Oh, yeah, it was within the middle of that. Yeah, and then the Catholic Charismatic movement coming out of, you know, out of the universities up in the North, it's Lutheran and Catholic Charismatic movement. So there was all sorts of things going on. That's right. And you plant this church, and what was it because the church didn't grew, and people got added to the kingdom. Oh, it just multiplied like crazy. And my basic thesis, Paul, was that God has given us absolute scripture, which lead to principles that are absolute, but it sets us free and form and structure. And I said, let's go back to the basic functions and principles of the New Testament, and then let the forms emerge for our culture today. Wow. That's the way we started. And it just multiplied like crazy. And we actually started five, we called them at that time, branch churches the first five years, plus Tony Evans became our first full-time church planning pastor. We paid his salary for three years to start Ocliffe Bible Fellowship. I had him as a student at Dallas. That was a great investment, by the way. Yeah, that investment was a great return. Oh, yeah, I had just multiplied. And it was certainly a God thing. It was the right moment in history. People were looking for a fresh experience with the Lord and God blessed. You know, we're doing a Monday night men's intensive online. And we had planned to start it next year. Now we're in the middle of a pandemic. So we started it last week, even though we didn't have anything together yet. But we started it this week. What we taught was opportunity comes to every man. So don't pray for opportunity. Pray to be ready for the opportunity. Most men miss the opportunity because they haven't prepared. And so what you had done through academic study and through the preparation of your own heart, even writing these books that you wrote. And I think most people, I don't know, I say for me, my world, the measure of a man has been a classic in my world for I thought for about 25 or 30 years, but you wrote it even before that. But what you did was you were ready when the opportunity came, when you sat down with those people, you had already begun something in your heart. It's like when David showed up to kill Goliath, he had already developed an intimacy with God and walked through adversity. So he was ready for the opportunity. And so that clarity that, I think that's what happens in most of our lives. When you wrote the measure of a man, what was it that struck you when you think of manhood and of men? Well, basic is interesting in terms of how that happened because I just started the church and invited a group of guys to join me. And I took this outline that's in the measure of man, which by the way comes right from scripture. And I said, let's spend 20 weeks on this. I modeled the first presentation. And then I said, guys, I need volunteers and to lead the sessions. And I folded into the group while I began to journal and Bill Greg came to town from gospel light and said, gee, what are you doing? I showed him the outline. He said, I want that as a book. And would you write a book? By the way, that's a writer's dream. And so I wrote, then I got real serious about journaling as we went through that process. And boy, back to your basic question, I'd been in the ministry a lot of years. And this is the first time I had studied very carefully these qualities. It impacted my life. I could see it impacting every guy in there. And those qualities, by the way, are not just for leaders in the church. Paul was simply saying, hey, Timothy Titus, if you're going to point leaders in the church, just make sure the matereners how you recognize maturity. This maturity in Jesus Christ profile for every man. And so it just really impacted our lives. And then God blessed, would you believe? It's never been out of print in 44 years. My goodness. Because I wrote it, but because I borrowed the outline from Paul and you know where he got it. Yeah. We often say, when you're having Paul will get the rewards, I'll get penalized for plagiarism. But that's the reason why God used it. And by the way, this latest edition includes 42 QR codes, I got a QR reader right at the beginning or code right at the beginning of every chapter and at the end of every chapter. So I talk to the guys and I say, as you read this book, here's what you need to look for in this chapter. In the end of the chapter, I speak to a group of guys. I become a part of the group and say, okay, guys, what can we learn from this? How can we apply it? So, and would you believe it's being used more today than when it first came out, 44 years ago? That's fantastic. As a whole, it came from God. Let me ask you, now, okay, here's a little personal question. Did you write that in an IHOP? I wrote a lot of it. Yeah, IHOP and Panera Bread's my place now. Okay, I heard this. You shared this years ago. I was at a meeting where you spoke. And you began to talk about your process that you actually wrote this book out longhand. Oh, yeah. And set at an international house of pancakes, right? Told the waitress you were gonna tip her for whatever time she wasn't. Yeah, if I were there, if I were there four times in her station, I would make it four times, right? I'd never forgot that I thought. And I've used that story because, you know, some guys talk about, I've got to go out and do Walden Pond. You know, I've got to go out in the woods and write. And I always remind them, you know, Walden Pond was written 20-minute walk from town. So, it wasn't like, you know, at the row, you know, and he spent the rest of his life making pencils, which was a fascinating thing. But nonetheless, I love that because the cacophony of the setting, the noise being in people and people around you actually energized you. Yeah, it really did. And I still do this today. I'll spend, I'm redoing the videos, by the way, for my life, essential study Bible. Okay. And I will spend a whole day at Panera Bread in a corner. And of course, I have my iPad and I have my cell phone. And by the way, with going to the internet, you can research, it's like carrying a library around of, you know, a million books. Yeah. So, it's all self-contained. And yeah, it works. And I just learned, I've just learned to shut out the noise. Unless there's some real loud mouth. But that doesn't happen too often. Well, I probably used to have it at IHOP, but Panera's a little maybe, maybe a little more sophisticated. But by the way, we ought to get a little royalty from these people promoting the rest, right? They should sponsor this one. You know, I love those kinds of background things, though, because that's real life. Too often, we think, Jean, that we have to be in a certain place to be a minister. That we have to, I'm going to have to go study this. I'm going to have to do this, do that. Now, I always remind guys of the demon possessed man, Mark V, where Jesus healed this guy, and then told him to go tell everybody. He goes to the decapolis, and we find out 40 years later, there's all these churches in those ten cities, which I'm sure part of that was this guy who had no formal training, but Jesus said, go tell them what happened to you. Too often, we think we've got to have all these things, but you're a team builder, right? I can see that now. You built the men's teams, you're a team builder, and you do that by pulling out of people. This is what Paul did for Timothy. He looked inside this young man, raised really by his mother and his grandmother, pulled out his future and showed it to him. And that's what you've done. When you begin to do that, and let me talk about mentoring, then I want to get back to this interactive Bible, which I think is fascinating. When you do that, when you begin to mentor somebody, and you're building a team, what do you see, and what are you looking for in a man's life as a servant leader? Well, I look for someone, obviously, who is really interested, who is open. You know, there are just so many. I mean, I just find that guys really, and you can spot them, you know, they want to grow in the Lord. But when I wrote the measure of man, obviously, we just started the church, and I just threw out the question, guys, let's meet for a Bible study in prayer once a week. And 25 guys showed up. Well, and so I found that there's an openness there. And I believe you've got to spend your time with people that really are open, because there's just so much to do, and so many demands on you. That doesn't mean I like the person that I think has potential, but he's resistant. You just, I can't focus on that. I've got to focus on those that are open and want and respond, and it's amazing. It's absolutely amazing what will happen. Yeah. I can tell you lots of stories mentoring, for example, one guy who, do we have time? I'll tell this to you. Yeah, yeah, no, I want to, I'll tell this to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this guy was the Bible's story. Yeah, yeah, this guy was coming across the, he was coming from California with his girlfriend, and he was moving to Dallas, not to Dallas to Austin. And he said, when we get there to Austin, I got to find a church. He said, a church, what are you talking about? Because he was pagan. We said, I got to get contacts for my business. Well, he went to the church and got saved. And then somebody said, you need a study Bible. He went to a bookstore, and there on the shelf was Life Essential Study Bible. And because he was tech savvy, he got into it, called me. And I sense he's just a brand new believer. And basically, I began to work with him, and eventually, long story short, after helping him and mentoring him. First thing he got right was he got married, dealt with his moral issue, and then got into the word, he was married in the Philippines. There was a pastor who married them there, because he married a Filipino girl, said, oh, and he gave him a copy of my Bible. He came back and he said, they need these for, this pastor said, I've got 50 men who've never been trained and they're ministering. And this is like a seminary in a box. He came back, I trained him. He went back to the Philippines and gave them 50 Bibles and trained them on how to use it. And I told him, I said, look, you can't go back and minister to these pastors. That's not your, you know, you're not mature enough in Christ, but you can show them how to use this Bible. Yeah. Well, he was just drawing it out of me, you know, driving from Austin to Dallas. Wow. He mentored. Well, the multiplication was incredible. So I think that kind of illustrates the point in a specific way. Yeah, it does. And, you know, I remind servant leaders regularly that Jesus didn't just take whoever showed up. He chose the first disciples, that's right. You know, when he had up, he had a circle of three and then he had 12. And of course, he had one guy, sidebar Lazarus, who's one of my favorite guys, who was his best friend and then he had the 70 or 72, depending on translation and then those beyond that. But he chose those men. It was very purposeful. He prayed over it. He prayed often over that. And so the word of God though has been the center of everything you do. See, every book you've written, and you've written all these books on Nehemiah and Paul and David and all the great heroes, Joseph. But all of it was extracted from, if you will, from the depths of the word of God. It's the center of who you are. Yeah, and that's what endures. And it's, you know, like, I've read down measure of a man in the sense of updated it. But I just simply update it in terms of the culture. Yeah, but it's the same biblical outline that's universal enduring. And so you take those 20 qualities, those never change. They just came from God. And they're just as applicable at any moment in history, any place in the world, regardless of the cultural situation. Yeah. How you teach them and lead them into it, you know, you vary that based on culture. But these are absolute principles. Yeah. That's what, and that is what I really worked on with this is 1500 principles to live by. Never changing, applicable anywhere in the world. Unchanging in it applies because you're dealing with the core of a man. Right. The center, the character. Well, and it comes from God. Well, there you go. Yeah, the principles to live by, the life essentials interactive study Bible now, because you've got all sorts of interactive abilities out of it. But I look at the different ones you've done. It's incredible. I was looking at first Kings, mutual encouragement for fellow Christians out of the life of Elijah. And because that's a pretty amazing moment where God says, hey, there's 7,000 other people. Right. That's right. And he was in the midst of his depression, by the way, at that time. Yeah. I think he had isolated himself. Yeah. Yeah. He had totally isolated himself. Didn't he want to, and so my dad taught me years ago that the day after the battle is as important as the day before the battle. Oh, right. Yeah. And he certainly illustrates that. And he really felt alone. Yeah. And God said, no, no. You got to get that straight Elijah. You're not alone. There are 7,000 that haven't bowed the need of bail, but before that, Paul, interestingly, when he came out of that cave, you remember, he was hibernating and there was this great fire and this great thunder and this, you know, phenomena. And God said, I'm not in that. Well, so he had been used to the fire at Mount Carmel. He'd been used to raising the dead, you know, the little widow. Right. Right. He had been used to all this phenomena and he was relying on it. And when that dissipated, God said, look, I'm not in the wind and the storm and all that stuff. And it was still quite voice. I'm with you Elijah. You can't base your spiritual life on phenomena. Yeah, based on my who I am. And that's a fascinating principle. That is huge because if we don't do that, we start looking for phenomena over and over and so we become addicted to the event. That's right. And our emotional stability can be based on that. And that's what was happening to Elijah. Yeah, he became suicidal. That's right. He wanted to die. Yeah, wanted to just kill me. You know, this is amazing. This is a guy who called fire from heaven. That's right. This is a guy who prayed. This is a guy who prayed. And he had all this stuff and then he runs from Jezebel. Yeah, and now she was a powerful woman, but I mean, that just doesn't make sense. No, he just... If God could take care of 400 prophets of Baal, couldn't he take care of Jezebel? Yeah, and he actually had killed those guys. Hey, this is Chris. I want to take a moment right in the middle of this great conversation to let you know the Brave Men podcast is a production of the Christian Men's Network worldwide and the Global Fatherhood Initiative. Christian Men's Network has helped pastors and leaders disciple men for over 40 years. You can find all the resources for mentoring and fatherhood at cmen.men. That's the Christian Men's Network at cmen.men. Christian Men's Network has a YouTube channel with inspirational videos. There you can find the innovative new study, Monday Night Men. When you get there, make sure you click subscribe. Monday Night Men is a fresh resource for men and pastors. As a pastor, you can follow up the 30-minute study with a digital meetup with your men for prayer, discussion, and teaching. Some churches are using the videos as part of a group meeting. As an individual, enlarge, energize, and build a strong mindset. This 13-week study will be on YouTube and Facebook. Get your books and materials at cmen.men. That's the Christian Men's Network at cmen.men. Stop what you're doing. Take your phone, tablet, or computer, and like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, follow us on Twitter, unless you think you will lose the podcast, in that case, make yourself a note. That's the Christian Men's Network or Paul Lewis Colt. Now, let's get back to this powerful interview between Paul and Gene Getz. You know, fascinating. Let me ask you this question. Okay, here's my question. And it has to do with brotherhood and fellowship, and that is, why didn't he lie to know any of those other guys? If there were some thousand that had not bowed their knee. Well, I think you knew some of them, but you know how it is when you get in the depths of depression, you don't remember those things. Wow. Block it out. He felt alone, absolutely alone. And remember, he didn't have input. He didn't watch the news every night to see what was happening to the prophets of Bale. I mean, he didn't have that input. So he, he felt alone. He didn't have the information. He was confused, theologically confused as well. And God just lovingly set him straight. And by the way, the greatest thing God did was to give him a lysha, and because, you know, there, that's the whole concept that we need each other. We need the support of each other. We're not designed to operate alone. And in that, during that period was operating alone. Yeah. In the wilderness and all of that. And boy, when a lysha came by his side, he was a new man. Yeah, everything, yeah, he was reinvigorated. Everything lifted, everything changed. We were made for community. Oh, yeah. And that's been part of, it's the name of the church. That's right. Fellowship was, what was the choice of that? Let me go back to that in 1972. And you could have called it anything. You know, you could have called it, you know, the cathedral of the living God, any kind of things. Where did that come from, Dr. Gets? Well, we just basically, and as I presented the biblical material from Acts chapter two, where it says they continued in the apostles' teaching as Peter was preaching and people responded. So you have the foundation of the Word of God, but then it says in fellowship. They continued in fellowship. And that fellowship is described very specifically, eating together, praying together, praising God together, sharing material possessions together. And then God had a favor on that. They had favor with all the people and people were coming to the Lord because that was really a fulfillment of what Jesus said by this all men will know you're my disciples. You're all one another. And so we looked at that and we said, well, let's call it fellowship. That's the centerpiece, Bible church, because that was the church. So that kind of just spontaneously grew out of that passage. Yeah, came out of your heart. So now we live in a nation in the United States. I've said it a number of times. We seem to be a nation more concerned about the calorie content of our children's lunches than the character content of our children's hearts. And we live in a culture that if you will, the church is diminishing. We have more, when people check the little boxes of faith or what's your religion, we have more people saying none than ever before. What's your, here you are passing on legacy books, materials. What's your hope for the future? What is it you see that we need to perhaps pivot? And what is your hope for the future on the church? Well, let me think about what's happening right now in terms of this virus. I think the greatest lesson that comes out of this for everybody in the United States when the president right on down is humility. We were the greatest nation. Yeah, we got the greatest stock market. We've got all this, more unemployed. What happened within two weeks? Wow. I mean, and I see even more humility, I think, in the president. And that, I think, and that should certainly be at the heart of what we, as believers, can gain from this that we're dependent on the Lord. And it drives us back to Him. And I see good things coming out of this, exciting things. And I think that there's going to be a lot more humility. I hope that that hits at the highest levels of our church leadership, and we don't take advantage of it and take advantage of people because we can manipulate the situation. That would be a horrible shame, because I think that there is a tendency in our culture today, particularly among powerful leaders and spiritual positions to even not talk about the depth of scripture, but to talk about all of the great things around us. And maybe we need a lesson in humility in the church. Wow, and the church. You know, Jeremiah 29, and it seems to me it's, it's before 29-11, seems to me it's about verse seven or eight. And chapter 29, and Jeremiah is writing to the captives. And he didn't tell him to escape, he's told him multiply where you're at, Daniel and all those guys. But he said something, after all these little things, plant, plant plants, build houses, multiply, there was a couple other things. But then he said, he said, but I want to warn you, there are people who will come as prophets who say they're coming in my name, but they're speaking lies. Absolutely. So in other words, quite often, perhaps a half truth is as bad as a whole lie. Absolutely. Absolutely. And we've got to come back to the word. And that's where this life essentials interactive study Bible for you has become, you know, if you will, kind of a raison d'etre right now in your world. Yeah, it's my life. I've been working on it for 15 years. Wow. And took seven years to do the first, and I mean full time. Wow. And of course, fortunately, my tech guy, David, you met him. Yeah, early, a little earlier, but he said, Jane, if you're going to teach all this to a live audience, when I knew I had to, right, I was going to design this, especially just for this group, teach them from the scriptures. And he said, let's just put it on the web. Well, six years later, into the seventh year, as we were refining it, here comes YouTube and QR code technology. Yeah. And Robin and Holland calls and said, Jane, you've got all of this high level video. Let's put a QR code with every principle, all 1500. Wow. And they can access all 1500 videos. And that was a God thing. And so we went to work, we edited over 300 hours of that video, put the QR codes in the Bible. And when it came out, those videos were available. And here's the amazing thing, Paul. I began to get calls from all over the world, because it was on the internet. They can access these videos. And so that was a God thing. And that was the first seven years. Now, the second seven years, I've been redoing all the videos, taking them to high definition. And I'm in the home stretch. I got 48 to go and I'll finish Revelation. That's fantastic. That's incredible. And what I love about that is that you've stayed on that front edge. I mean, look at you, you're using an SM7B microphone. You got the whole thing going. And you talked about your iPad. So you haven't said, oh, I don't know. You know, Jean, I'll tell you, I've got guys who are my age or maybe a little older as a wow, I don't know how to even turn on a computer. I'm like, well, bro, then you're not going to be able to communicate. You know, this is, and God gave us the internet, Pastor Jean. God gave us this in order to reach people. I mean, I can reach guys. We can reach guys on these little, you know, there's seven and a half billion people in the world. And there's nine billion phones. That's right. More phones than there are people. Yeah. So we can reach them now in the middle of the century. Right in the heart of Africa, when they're in poverty, they have iPhones, this is their means of communication. I mean, I've seen it. You've seen it. You've traveled the world. And I believe God, and there's, it's, to me, it's not a coincidence that the rise in population, if you overlay that the curve of the rise of the ability to communicate has also risen. I think it's a God thing. And I thank God, Jean, that you have done this. And this doesn't happen easily. These, this is hard work. I know as a pastor, you probably are looking at an hour for every minute of speaking that you actually had to work in order to compress that into a 35 minute message or something. And so I just want, I thank God for that. And I want to recommend that if people, if somebody listening or watching hasn't gotten any of Jean gets his books, I know it's not a possibility necessarily, but if you haven't, for me, start with a measure of a man. That, that's a classic. And you've updated it. And then from there, I love the heroes. I love the stories of the heroes. And you did one compilation of the apostles, right? All right. It has all of them, right? Yeah. And so I'm looking at Joseph and Abraham and Daniel. And by the way, I think it was Joseph. Joseph, wasn't it that you dedicated to my father? I did. For here it is. You know, I was fascinating because I think were you in the session? Yeah. That was, it was a men's conference. Yes. And it was a night and it had to be 1995, probably. And I found out that Joseph was your dad's favorite Bible character. And I'd been praying about whom I'm going to dedicate the book to. So I sat there and somehow I found that out from, I don't know, maybe he was talking about it. And so I decided right then and there when I got up to speak after your dad introduced me, I said, I've just completed a book on Joseph and I'm going to dedicate this to you. I remember that, and I've never done that. And he was thrilled. And so I wrote the dedication to him. In fact, I reviewed it today and I thought, wow. And then your dad wrote the forward for him. Yeah, right. And that was just really, that was a exciting moment, I think, for both of us. Yeah. No question. So I want to recommend that. And again, I think now you're, you have, you have children? Grandchildren? I have three children and I have eight grandchildren and eight grandkids and what a blessing. That's fantastic. I love being a papa. I love being a boiler. I love everything about it. And where are those three children? Are they hearing that? All in Dallas. All in the state in the area. Yeah. And it's, boy, I'll tell you, one of the greatest things. You know, by the way, I'm 88. And there's no way I'm 88. That's fantastic. And I have to get my grand child fix about every week. I mean, I just, what a blessing that is. What a blessing. Yeah. What's the line about the grandchildren of God's gift for not having killed your kids? Well, the Bible says there's something the crown of old hair. Yeah. No, it's the crown. And frankly, what you're looking at there is, see, I, you know, my father taught me this. He said, you know, don't look at the life of your children as the measure of who you were as a parent. Because the life of your grandchildren. And I think that we miss that in this, you know, our culture has become so oriented to the quarterly report. You know, I know a lot of the men we meant to are driven by that, the quarter profits, quarterly profits. And we're driven by the, you know, how many people watch this particular thing in a particular month? And we've become so myopic and narrow that we miss the long-term effect of our lives. I was talking with, I think it was John Eldridge the other day and John said something about, he said, you know, in our lives in his study that we impact approximately 82,000 people in our lifetimes, regardless of whether we go out of the house or not. And I think about that in the, in every single one of us has an impact on it on everybody else. It is, there is a connectedness that God made us to live in community. And I think proof that men want to be in community because I get guys, Jean, that say all the time, oh, I don't know if I can get our guys together or go whatever, you know, listen, bro, the reason that there's, that the bar is full down the road is because guys do like getting together. That is may not always like, if you're going to preach to them every time. Right, right. But they love to interact if you get them into study. And that's how we, you know, did the Measure Man, and it just grew out of that interaction. Yeah, that came out of your life. If you were, as you mentor young dads right now because you raised children and our grandchildren, as you mentor young dads, what are one or two of the principles that you tell them right off the bat? You know, this needs to be part of your life. Well, the one that just pops to me is, you gotta live it. Hmm, they are watching you. And, you know, what you say has to match what you are because they discern it very, very quickly. And they also, they also understand imperfection. You know, they understand imperfection. When you say, you know, I'm sorry, I apologize. Please forgive me. They'll say, oh, that's all right, dad, you know. But boy, I'm talking about consistency and one of the most encouraging things my son said to me one day, as I, he was at Baylor University and I picked him up, we're on a way home back to Dallas. And I said, Kenton, why haven't you, you know, gone out and just gone out into the world system? What gets you when track? And I hesitate to share this because it sounds a little self-serving, but I'll say it, hopefully with humility. He said, dad, he said, dad, you and mom walk the talk. And that's why I didn't kick over the traces. That was the greatest, the greatest blessing to me. And boy, and then he said, and then he said, now I know you're not perfect. Yeah, no, you're not perfect, but you walk the talk. And that really impacted me. That comes back to the center of something you said, right, at the start of our conversation, Gene, where you talked about humility. And in the middle of our conversation, you talked about the humility of the pulpit. And it is, I believe the mark of Christ, you know, and again, you bring it out in a number of your books about meekness isn't weakness, it's a strength under control. And so I, you know, for me, if there's any message that comes out of your life, for me, as an observer and looking at what God's done through your life, is the humility and willingness to be moldable and be used of God, when I talk about you accessing, say, the new things, iPads and stuff and whatever. That comes out of a humility of saying, whatever it is that God's leading me into, I'm ready to learn. You're a lifelong learner, aren't you? Well, yes, I am. And it's just a part of who I am, I guess. What can I say? Yeah, it's fantastic. Well, I'll say it for you. You know, God's blessed, you know, I thank God for you and I thank God for what you've had to persevere because I know what it takes to write books because I'm writing them in Hebron. And there's a, and then I think it was Sam Chan who wrote the book called Giving Blood, talked about pastoring, administering and speaking and what that means in terms of your life. So thank you for pushing through what it takes to do all this so that we would be energized and enlarged and our lives capacity be stretched to receive what God has to do for us in our lives. And so I just want to pray over you and particularly this life essentials interactive study Bible that you've worked so hard on. I pray that every place somebody receives that and hears that that becomes holy ground where you've, because you put your feet there. And I pray that everything your hands touch will prosper. And I pray that you would stay solidly in the favor of God and he would keep your family at rest in peace and safe in Jesus' name. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for taking the time. It's absolutely been an honor and a privilege and a blessing. Just to hang out with you even by technology. It's absolutely amazing. So thank you, Dr. Gene. Well, thank you for the opportunity, the privilege. Yeah, God bless. You know, people like Gene gets and they create Bibles like called the Life Essential Bible. But you know why they can actually do that? Because they've actually allowed the Bible to become their life. You know, and there's very few people like we were talking about before, you know, the interview. There's very few, I think a lot of the reason why people are so caught up in their own legacy is because they've missed Jesus' legacy. Wow. When you put on Jesus' legacy, you walk in a level of humility that you're not worried about yourself. You're worried about people seeing Jesus through your life. Wow. And you see that in Gene gets. That is Gene gets. He is not worried about his fame or, you know, any of the things that come with it. No. He is. And you saw that and could hear that, you know, in the interview for Listening, but you saw it on the video part that we did. You know, it's an amazing thing and to hear that story. So the Life Essentials Bible is, is that on Amazon or how do you get it? Is that, you can go on his website. His website? Yeah, you can go on his website, Gene gets. Or you also can go on Moody. Or the Moody Bible Institute website or Moody.com and you'll be able to find it all in here. Fantastic. That is a great Bible, great resource. What is it with about 35 pounds? Oh. It was a 30 pound Bible. It weighs 35 pounds in physical form, but in spiritual form, you can't even put a number two in it. You can't put a number two in it. Come on, Chris. You can. Yeah, you're rolling on that stuff. What a great way to finish a year with truly a living legend. Yes. I so appreciate him. He was so kind to my father and honored my dad, Dr. Ed Cole. And my dad loved him. And he actually came and spoke with a couple of my dad's meetings years ago. That's when I first met him. And he had that fan spoke, which we talked about the measure of a man, which is a classic, which has been reissued. And I would suggest that you still read it. I mean, because people say, well, isn't that older? Well, it's like maximize manhood. It's always current and always relevant. And then he wrote the book Joseph and talking about this next year and what we're doing with the power of potential. See, I want to just give the guys a challenge. I want to give our guys a challenge. You know, we're talking about Joseph and we're getting ready to do Monday night men, Joseph. And you know, so January 11th. January 11th, you know, and Joseph's name means add to. Wow. And when you get the word in your heart, what you're doing is you're doing what God called you to do, adding to the kingdom. And I just want to challenge everybody out there to make a point this year, to ask yourself, what are you going to do to add to the kingdom this year? Stop building your kingdom and build for the kingdom. There's one kingdom and it's God's kingdom. And if there's anybody who personifies that, it was Gene Getz, and I'm this guy. And your dad. Yeah, my dad and you know, and people that we know who were like that, but you know, have Gene take that kind of time and talk about it was fantastic. And I am so excited about launching 2021, going after our dreams, going after stronger. Being stronger, it's every Monday morning on Facebook. We do that study every Monday morning. And then live every Monday night on Facebook and YouTube is the Monday night now, our potential. It runs through the week before Easter. So Monday night before Easter is when we finish. So it's perfect for a church. If you want to get the tools and materials to go through this with your men, you can get it to seaman.man, talk to Bruce, right? Yes. 438-4888-437-4888-817-437-4888, is that right? Yes. Okay, I got it right. I got it on speed dial. Yeah. Yeah. So going to website, they should ask the numbers. seaman.man. Thanks Chris, thanks for building out an out one man. Sorry, I didn't know you were going to have a blank look. Like maybe we should have planned this out of the system. Should have told me. Should have told me. So it's been an amazing year. This was a program number 70 of Brave Men, which is a pretty amazing thing in and of itself. And so launching 2021 with strength, power, dreams, Psalm 37 verses 23 and 24, let me finish 2020 with this. It says, the footsteps of a righteous man are ordered of the Lord. It says, but when he falls, he will not be utterly cast down for the Lord, will lift him up, Isaiah says, with a strong right arm. And that's a picture for you and me. 2020, a lot of us have stumbled. A lot of us have had stuff. I mean, we've either been in doubt or fear or whatever has overwhelmed us. But the Lord says, I'll lift you up. Exactly. His footsteps are righteous man ordered of the Lord, but when he falls, it doesn't say if he does. Says when he does. Yes. Or it's God loves us, even when we're human. Yes. Right. So a great time to finish the year with Brave Men. Thanks for being with us. Remember, you mentioned social media stuff. Yes. Like us on Facebook. Okay. Christian Moons Network. Follow us on Instagram Christian Moons Network or Paul Lewis Cole or Paul was getting there. Okay. I'm sorry. It's coming. Smooth and Twitter. Movable on Twitter Christian Moons Network. And then you can go to all those handles as well and put in Paul Lewis Cole. Yes. And that's L O U I S. I finally learned how to spell it right. Thanks. A whole year. But you can find that. You can find his social media and follow us. You know, finishing strong, finishing 2020 strong, starting in 2021, stronger. Yes. And, you know, just to go with that scripture, a quote that will always be a part of me, is champions are not those that never fell. It's those that never quit. And I just want y'all to know that you are that champion. You are that champion. Remember, hope is a live hope, has a name. Hope's name, Jesus. Jesus. Love you guys, have a great 2021. You just experience Brave Man with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian men's network. Connect with Paul at cmn.man or write to him at Paul at cmn.man.