BraveMen S3E58: Winner, Loser, Champion - The Wild Story of NFL Player Clint Gresham

I'm excited today to introduce you to a friend of mine Clint Gresham who played for the Seattle Seahawks And he was on both sides of that thing and with me today is our co-host Chris shields and Chris you're a Seahawks fan. I am and just for the record I just want to start it off and say this we're undefeated we're undefeated right now as we do this podcast Yes, well, we got to buy next week. So I mean we're good when everybody somebody listens to this We will not be undefeated. No, we're not gonna happen man. I feel like I was 16 and oh this oh man come on Was that was at the 1972 Miami Dolphins? Yes, we went undefeated. Yeah So and they meet every year right after Super Bowl and celebrate again. Yes, the only ones. Yeah, it's the Patriots almost did it Patriots almost said they probably showed us but the point is is that Clint was on a team that that won a Super Bowl and lost Yes, and But Clint's life what's you know, it's amazing. I can't wait for you everybody to hear him and listen to him today on brave men But Clint Came into he was not necessarily heralded is hey this guy's probably gonna be in Super Bowl someday No came out of Corpus Christi very good athlete Ended up at Oklahoma. He was what do they call it? They kind of a featured walk-on sort of yeah draft thing whatever Got a ton of people up there. He couldn't quite fit somewhere got down down to TCU with Gary Patterson And coach Patterson found a spot for him and he became a long snapper and became very very good at it Yes, then he gets cut then he gets not drafted But he gets a spot like New Orleans calls him up. He gets a spot there and then bam they cut him Now the backstory to all of this is what happened in his life and he put it in a book. Yes called becoming called becoming Yes, phenomenal book. Yeah, you're in the middle of reading it right now. I'm in the middle of reading it and I'm hoping it changes your life Oh, that's kind of what I've been praying for. That's what I figured that's why you gave it to me. That's why I gave it there you go You're becoming something. I don't know what but here. Maybe you'll figure out by reading it this Crazy becoming something and hopefully out of Clint's book will figure out what it is. Yes. Yes, but he wrote a great book and Called becoming Clint's Gresham G-R-E-S-H-A-M And so the books called becoming you can get it on Everywhere where all the finer books are sold. Yeah, okay, and then So it's probably no all that kind of stuff And Clint's married now got a little baby got a couple little kids. Well, he has one on the way Yeah, one in a way and when we the other day when we did this podcast with him This was great. He walks in with his Super Bowl ring Championship ring and he walked in. What was there another ring? Or was that yes? He brought the NFC championship in FC championship ring, which was the following year Yeah, and he's got these two rings and they're huge. Yeah diamonds all over them. They're worth I don't know a half million dollars You know something crazy crazy thing. So he leaves her second use the rest room and he turns you goes here hold these My hand almost dropped and I was like what I am unworthy He does that he does that the guys all the time watching do it and you're like you're looking at going to this Super Bowl championship ring. Yes. Yeah, I know and they are heavy. Yes, they're large. He doesn't wear them around You know, he keeps them somewhere safe, but it was sweet too because I'm a see-how expand so is he no or like I was a big deal Clint you know Clint's a sad kind of guy, but man He would in his book called becoming he went through some stuff man had issues with alcohol Issues with rejection father stepfather abandonment. Yep stuff Man, he dealt with a lot of things that would probably have just sunk somebody's life Yeah, but this is why I love what he says in his book. He says wholeness is always wholeness always seems to be a journey rather than a destination Wow, and it reminds me of something that we love to say around here at christian men's network that your dad taught us You know champions are not those that never fell, but they're those that never quit You know, it was when he came to t.c. You that somebody and he believes it was a chaplain handed him maximize manhood Wow And it was when he started reading maximize manhood. He realized he'd never been taught what it is to be a real man You know, how do I act as a man? How am I supposed to treat you know women in particular? How am I supposed to you know, what's the integrity factor now coaches had been a real fine point for him And coach Pete Carroll with a Seahawks. He said was like a father figure to him. Oh, yeah So it's this is an amazing journey to listen to a guy That that went from corpus Christi from high school and a few years later Man, he's in the Super Bowl exactly. Yeah, pretty amazing But it shows the power of heroes and that's another thing he points out in his book He said you need heroes. Yeah, and you know, one of the things that I think is a big difference between my generation And your generation is who are the heroes today? Wow You know who are the heroes back in the day you had the ability to imagine and be creative and you know Really Take a step in mapping out your life because you looked at someone you're like, you know what? I want to be like now When I meet that person, they're not going to force their identity on me They're going to inspire me to do more at the gift and the talents that I had and I believe that that's what Pete Carroll does with the Seahawks and that's what we see Clint Gresham and where he's doing today Yeah, because he had a man that said you know what? I am a hero. Yeah, and if you follow my lead I'll allow you to think and walk into the fullness of who God's called you to be Yeah, I'm telling you that that chaplain for him and then not only that He started doing a Bible study up there in Seattle. He he started meeting with other players this guy walks the talk yes, and So appreciate he and his life and what he means to us and I'm excited to introduce you today To Clint Gresham former Seahawks Super Bowl champion Author motivational speaker. This is going to be a great day on brave man It's brave man with Paul Lewis Cole Wisdom encouraged for the journey I'm telling you with Clint Gresham that we're talking about this I'll give you this we were joking a minute ago I said the superhawks Seattle Seahawks And you were on the championship team Super Bowl. Yes, sir. It must have been amazing feeling It it was and it also wasn't It wasn't it wasn't Yeah, it's like you know the anticipation of A goal or something that you're striving for or something that you're hoping for is always so much bigger than the actualization of it Okay, you know obviously when it comes to our faith like that's that's what idolatry is this hope that I have that this this is the thing that's going to make me feel strong. It's going to make me feel significant It's going to make me feel complete and I are you moving football right into idolatry at the start of a conversation That's going to be our earlier We could have at least let's start with a joke We could have talked about a couple games and then go yeah, but Anyway, but you're right. You're right. We do idolize those things But at the same time, you know, I mean this was your career man. This was something you hope for. Yeah, I mean Is a kid right you're playing P we football And now you're sitting here and you got these rings next to you there. Yeah Super Bowl ranks man. Yeah, um, I mean my dad played football at the University of Texas He actually played with Earl Campbell really and uh, yeah, he said Earl was a beast obviously. No kidding. Yeah So growing up it was like It just wasn't even a question. It's like I want to play football. I'm my dad right then when I was 16 I actually found some of his old UT like workout shirts and stuff and I would wear those things every single day Did you really yeah, and you ended up going to Oklahoma right? Yeah, that's the conundrum And then the TCU after that. Yeah, I went to Oklahoma And funny enough my dad actually wanted to go to Oklahoma his mom grew up in Oklahoma. She went to OU and we have some family in in Oklahoma and When I was getting recruited in my senior year We went up to a couple of games up there and I mean Going from corpus Christi, Texas, which is you know relatively big town's 250,000 people You'll get a you know a thousand people maybe on a Friday night But going from that to basically a stadium that's bigger than every other NFL stadium in the world and it's like 18 year olds playing here like I walked in it was just What this is insane? This is so insane. I got to be Adrian Peterson Yeah, and I was just blown away about that obviously And things didn't work out at Oklahoma I started to kind of understand the There there is a business element to it. Yeah, and So after a year I transferred to TCU. Yeah, which turned out to be a great thing That was the right thing to do and because Oklahoma didn't win another bowl game For the entire time that I was in college. Well, of course. Yeah, that was a karma thing. Yeah Yeah, they're a lot you should have kept me should have kept me but not it's a good thing you move So you grew up and and I want to go back through it So Clint you you were with the Seattle Seattle Seahawks And you played 96 NFL games Which I just looked up, which was awesome. You didn't even know you played that many. I didn't yeah It feels like more than that. Yeah feels like Because every game feels like like 10. Yeah, no kidding I want to talk about that in a little bit because it's it's really it's so intense. Yeah, actually get to that level In fact, I was talking recently with Steve weatherford who is a fan of yours. He's a great guy Is that crazy? Yeah, I'm talking to him about this this sort of thing and about athletics and whatever and And I said I'll be talking to Clint Gresham and he goes wait a minute wait a minute And he goes I've got him on FaceTime. Yeah, and he's outside. He goes in his house And he's going wait a minute wait a minute. He goes upstairs around down a hallway Into his master bedroom opens up the bathroom And on the back of it right next to his you know toilet Is your cards you're that's amazing. I'm glad he thinks about me when he's honest I don't have hilarious he goes I got him right here man. I've got I've got Clint Gresham's inspiration cards. Yes Right here. He was like he goes through him. He goes every day. I take one of those affirmation cards That's awesome and you use them isn't that fantastic? Yeah, and you wrote a book called becoming Which we'll talk about in a minute, but you um, so you had great success You ended up being very successful as a long snapper in the NFL, right? Yep Which is this very skilled if you don't know what it is is the guy that hikes the ball to the to the kicker Or to the guy who's setting it up for a person and particularly if you're in another country Yeah, American gridiron. There's a guy who kicks the ball through the uprights There's got holes at forum and then there's a puntry who just kicks it down the field But the guy who hikes into him very very specialized Deal it's like a professional dart thrower. Yeah, there you go. That's or you only do free throws Yeah exactly, but I mean, but you you described it to me you have to take a football And how fast does that go back from from yourself? Does there a speed to that? Yeah, so they don't measure the speed, but they measure the time so on points Anything that is under point eight seconds is is good. I I was at about point six six to point seven two Are you kidding me? It's that finally tuned. Oh, yeah, so you have to actually Hike the ball back and you got big people in front of you. Yes Yes, right. Yeah, and and thank God for that rule that came in but you couldn't Jump right on you. Yeah, that rule came in after my second season So the first two seasons were I remember we were playing against the bears and Brian Erlacher was like right on top of me Erlacher and I thought hey, oh gosh, okay, no big deal Brian Erlacher, please take it easy on me And then I had and then a couple of years later Julius Peppers who was with the bears at the time He actually came in and did this like street fighter uppercut thing to me and my feet came off the ground and I landed on my back and it was humiliating But it was Julius Peppers. Yeah, but but I let him have that. Yeah, but did they get the punt off? Did you we got it off? Yeah, well there you go Yeah, so it worked so so you have to actually hike the ball back and point six six to seven two I mean, it's under a second. Yeah, and when when the guy when the punter gets it It has to be a certain way when it arrives there, right? Yeah, so he figured out that if he was at 14 and a half yards every time he would catch the ball the laces were already pointing up So and then on field goals When I would snap it the ball would rotate two and a half times so that when the holder caught it the laces were pointing forward And the reason that that's important is because if you kick the ball on the laces You're not gonna have an accurate kick. Yeah So in and then if the laces are to the left and it's a long field goal the ball will actually start to veer to the left So it's really important that the laces are forward So some of these kicks that we see go off really isn't the kicker Yeah, yeah, it could be the way the guy snapped it. It could be a piece of grass. They got on there It's all kinds of things my goodness man. I had no idea. Yeah That's that's stunning and so you got into that you played in the NFL for quite a number of years two super balls One ring 50% super balls. Yeah, you're one and one so it's just not bad And I mean, but you got there. I mean think about the guys who never got there played. Yeah for all their all their career And then but you grew up in corpus Christi Yeah, and grew up in what school there? Tell me about your dad. You talk about your dad and he played football of Texas Yeah And this is this is covered in your book becoming which is a very vulnerable Very open book. It's a great book clamp. Yeah, thank you I I've Gleened in my own life that I Connect with people when when they share their wounds and they share their experiences and there've been so many times in my life where I'll lift somebody up on this pedestal and and they'll talk down to you in the sense that this is This is how you should live but never talk about kind of their own personal application and so um I've just found power and vulnerability which there is so much power and and and really like everybody's dealing with the same stuff Like it's it's the same issue whether it's you're a football player or you're the CEO of a company or you're an uber driver or whatever Like dealing with this kind of internal stuff and I'm thankful that I had parents who um Were were there for me and Like my parents got divorced when I was eight and that you know obviously created a whole bunch of issues within itself, but Despite all of that like my dad and my mom they always showed up. They always there was there was no lack um And so I'm forever grateful for that. Yeah, yeah, obviously. So you grew up so they how old were you when they divorced? I was eight eight years old and then did somebody else come into your life after that my mom got remarried and To a guy that He was like my hero. He was in navy and he disassembled bombs for the navy get out of here I'm like nine or ten years old and yeah, that's the coolest thing ever. Yeah, he taught me how to make a letter bomb I don't remember how to do that Well, good I got that on my resume. Yeah, yeah, probably a few coaches that are thankful you don't remember. Yeah But that's seriously that's that's crazy. I would make it at that age. I'd make that guy. He wrote that Yeah, so he he was that for me and he was a guy who like brought fun energy when all my friends were over like he would take us to go Like pull pranks on the girls that we were too afraid to talk Yeah, yeah junior high in their trees and He really just modeled for me Kind of like the kind of mold or adult that I wanted to be And then out the day after my eighth grade birthday party He was having a hard time like finding work and they had been talking about this, but he was gonna move Up to to St. Louis because he had a job up there and I thought it was like Okay, I'll see you in a month. Yeah, he'll move up get a job. You guys will follow him up or whatever. Yeah and I didn't talk to him for a year and A year later he took some friends of mine and me to a concert and he wasn't the same and it was it was weird and After that I didn't talk to him for like another five years and so he so Go back because you put this in your book. He he came in and just said goodbye to you in the morning Was it something like that to say? Hey, hey champ. See ya. Yeah, and I didn't understand yeah like kind of the gravity of that moment And so how did that mark your life? I mean there was a ton of abandonment with that and feelings of Did I do something? I mean, I am that's common for for everybody like what could I have done better? It's usually never about us But we internalize it is about us, right? So you dealt with us often that and I mean that's the majority of Young guys right now in America or dealing with the slow-same issues. Mm-hmm, right? Yeah must be me. Yeah. Yeah I Yeah, I think about him a lot because it was a long road of sort of processing that stuff and in like I had a amazing father and This guy was was a compliment to what my dad was doing But because of just like his energy and stuff I felt a connection to him obviously and so to to have him vacate my life Very abruptly with just like I'm not picking up your calls and I would call him called him for years And he would never pick up my calls And when you're you know 16 years old and angsty like It's crushing and it's there's something about you that I don't like Yeah, and so that message got internalized and created my own negative self-talk and my own low self-esteem and And what was your your birth father your dad your father and all this? I moved in with my dad when I was 16. Okay, and And he was I mean just a driving force of of love and security and peace and We enjoyed being with each other But I mean high school's hard. Yeah, but to move back in with him and then and then you ended up You know you talked about it in your book. He ended up abusing alcohol and things like that. Mm-hmm. Yeah Tell me about that. When did that start? That started when I was 16 and Was really I'm 34 now just turned 34 Um, my body feels like I'm 55 right Doing a lot of yoga and swimming these days um So that was that was probably until I was about 22 and Got radically saved totally committed to the Lord and uh, that was when I got into the NFL like a couple of years before that and I would say that if I wasn't In such a stressful job like the NFL and especially with my position where it's like you know If you're an offensive tackle or something, you know You got 60 plays here and if you flood on one, it's you're probably gonna be all right But I got four. Yeah, and there's guys next to you Yeah, and then and then basically they expect a guy to mess up once or twice a game. It's yeah, you know It's why they carry flags around it, right? Right, but but yeah, you've got four plays a game five. Yeah Yeah, so if one of those things is off Um, because I already brought in such negative self-talk and doubt and all kinds of things I could really get myself and into this into this pit and I think that if I wasn't playing for Pete Carroll I would not have lasted as long as I did and he made such an impact on me Yeah, I always tell people's like even when he fired me, you know, life's like yeah, I still like you Yeah, yeah, you you have truly shaped my life in the way that I look at things Yeah, I want to come back to that in a second And so you come up out of high school. What what position did you play in high school football? I was kind of a jack of all trades my senior year. I was a Right guard and actually got all city really So I should have worn my letterman jacket over here. Yeah, there you go. Yeah I think the Super Bowl ring was cool enough. Yeah, I'll go ahead and pick that one. Yeah Yeah, so you played so you did that what high school was that WB Ray, WB. Same high school is fair of faucet So fantastic. Yeah, that is ran all the guys listening if anybody old enough To remember that and so and then you end up going to Oklahoma Your preferred recruit and all that didn't quite work out and you end up at TCU. Who's your coach there? Gary Patterson Gary Patterson. Yeah, great guy. He's been her for years and who's your position coach there? He's a guy named Dan Sharp and he's still there too. Is he really? Wow And so uh, so you get there and you start doing well Right mm-hmm. What shift to what changed um I I had gone through like a pretty bad breakup like right before my senior year and it was sort of a Okay, who do I want to be and do I Like everything that I need is within me Like in the sense of the Holy Spirit lives inside of me like how do I want to Choose my path of my life and do I want it? Do I want to let it be governed by the pain and experiences that I have gone through Or do I want to step into whatever is uncomfortable and deal with that kind of stuff and Become the kind of man that I'm gonna be and so um The guy that actually dedicated my book to my second cousin and was a guy who was just like a spiritual father for me and Just would pick up my calls when when I was going through hard times and Just listening to the way that he talked about a relationship with God What it meant to be a man and a leader and to understand the spiritual yeah Those were things that I had no clue about fill yeah, they'll pray yeah, wow He actually passed away on Father's Day Four years ago. Oh, man, which is kind of a kind of like a beautiful thing. Yeah, honestly. Yeah So now you end up a TCU what was the and and he encouraged you and I want to get back to the salvation experience But I also want to talk to you about you guys did you win some bowl games while you're at TCU We did since had had a good career there. Yeah We were in the the Texas Bull in Houston. We played against the University of Houston The biggest college football game to ever be played in the state of Texas get out of here really not true in Houston in Houston And one the point set a bowl in San Diego my senior year we went to the fiesta bowl Really that was a bad deal because they took the two non-qualifying bcs team is a match against each other. So we played Boise State And we lost to them. So yeah Boise State that year was an anomaly man. Yeah, they were They were good for a lot of years. Scrappers though, man. Yeah, yeah Well, you got to be good. You're up there and freezing cold and just beating each other up and You know, it's like it's like you come down here to fiesta bowl and it's like just animals. Yeah Yeah, so the fiesta bowl that that was played in in Phoenix which Funny enough, that's where we lost Super Bowl 49 Two of my worst losses were lost in the same stadium Yeah, so don't go back to Phoenix And so Patterson had an impact on your life Yeah, yeah, I mean the way that he Like motivated guys and You know, he's got a tough outer shell, but like if you get him one-on-one like he Truly deeply cares for all of these guys. Yeah, and I think that I Mean the fact that he was willing to take me back after because they had actually offered me a scholarship after I To Oklahoma. Yeah, and I was like listen guys like I've already decided to do this But he wanted me back and that's fantastic was gracious about it. Yeah. Well, maybe he wrote a song about it too You know, which song is about you? Yeah, cuz he's a country western. Yeah, it's a country western How many songs are you written about me? How many did did my and little diddies did you get for me? Right, I'll take you back Shoot and you guys are still in relationship with those with a lot of your friends at T.C Yeah, yeah, absolutely, so I mean COVID is his complicated things obviously, but Patterson always have a party at his house for all the ex NFL guys who were in it. Wow like played for him. Yeah And he's got quite a few Yes, I think there's I think there's like 15 guys on a roster this year really yeah I still got my banner hanging up over at TCU. Do you really? It's fantastic. Yeah, that that's really cool I love that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's really neat and But then while you're at while you're at TCU you have a salvation experience I do and that was sort of a gradual experience probably Mainly through my my second cousin and there was there was a couple of people on campus that just kind of This is what salvation looks like This is why you can't earn it But it was mostly just the calls that I would that I would make to him like when when things got hard and I didn't know what to do and I For me like I can have a tendency to okay, we're gonna do this and we're gonna do this this and this And he was not like that at all like there was no agenda. It was just this is this is what I would do or whatever um and playing the slow game like that uh Just sort of chipped away at a lot of the things that were keeping me um like my own pain that I just I'm not ready to let go of this and just with time I realized that um The pain of holding on of this is much greater than the pain of walking into it So I'm I'm gonna choose to step into it and what was that moment like did did you pray with someone? Did were you in your dorm room or were you There wasn't do you remember there wasn't like a single moment yeah for me um I mean I I'd accepted Christ when I was a kid right in high school and had had sort of like little bumps of experiences like that But I can't say that there was a specific moment. Uh, I just know that um I was different yeah, and then at the end of my junior year Uh, I I moved out to California for a month and I took a discipleship class at a four square church out there And it radically changed my life and and I was hungry for it and it was intense man It was like you can't watch or listen to more than two hours of secular media week You got to read your Bible every day pray out loud for ten minutes every day I mean there was like that's all seen steps, but you need that stuff you need that you have to have that stuff And that Coach Patterson did not want me to go to that he was actually really annoyed about that I actually came back in better shape than a lot of the guys that uh stayed there for the summer conditioning program Um because it would be dishonoring if I came back out of shape. Yeah good for you And uh that changed me and set me up on this whole other trajectory and that was all I cared about So the drinking stopped the drinking stuff stopped. Yeah, yeah parties Hey, and you got to hold a maximize manhood somewhere in that period too. Yeah, it was shortly after that um or before that I don't I don't even remember how I heard about it. I think it was a uh campus crusade guy handed it to me and That that was the first time that I saw like this is a blueprint of what a man could look like and should look like And I mean there was no teaching about that. It was sort of just like okay, you just look around I guess that's a man. I guess that might be a man. Yeah, that's a boy Obviously 57, but you're a child punk and yeah, man your dad's book It's not something. Wow. Yeah, and we're here today. I know it's amazing. You know it and that really is the legacy of Of faith and of walking it out and multi-generational and that sort of thing And I pray that your kids have the same Experiences you know with you and and books you've written in some day You know this book because becoming is about To me, okay, let me just When I read it it hit something that I've heard you talk about which is that core thing of do I measure up Yeah, right? Do I measure up and I think that's a core issue and so now yes, so now you go from TCU And immediately to start them in the NFL Right What happened? What was that process like? Um, it was it was brutal because you ended up undrafted, right? I was undrafted. I signed with the Saints and Was a terrible experience there I was competing with a guy who was like 39 and like all of a sudden like dude You're totally playing head games with me and yeah anyways. It was it was really hard and so I would Go to practice in the morning and I'd come back to my hotel room and metery, Louisiana right next to the airport And I didn't have anything to do. I didn't know anybody there. So I just spent time with God well and Man, I read my Bible listening to teachings and it was just it and because this situation was so hard It forced me into this I need to seek God like wow. I need this isn't uh, I think this is a good idea It's like I'm kind of desperate right now. Yeah, so the pressure of that moment actually You know Revealed to you where you were at. Here's what my heart is and but here's what I need. Yeah, right wow And so I'm there for about three months after the first day of training camp We they had so they had their conditioning test which I passed barely It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life It was three 300 yard shuttles and I had to make it in 58 seconds So you run 50 yards back 50 yards back 50 yards back And you get a two-minute break in between each one and it's hot and it's humid in Louisiana. Yeah, I'm about to read Yeah, and I After my last one I remember looking out at this at the field and I started seeing like all these colors And like I felt loopy like my legs I could I literally could not move my legs And I was just trying to be like yeah, I got this coach. I'm great Then everyone's like oh man. He's he's struggling But I made it I didn't fail and I spent about 30 minutes in the ice bath But the next day I get a knock on my door at seven o'clock in the morning and it's one of the Operations guys for the science. He's like hey Sean Peyton. He needs to talk to you coach Peyton The head coach for the science. I'm like, okay, good. Cool. I actually got some thoughts for him Yeah, yeah, we can probably re-structure this game or something Drew's got a couple Those to tell So I walk in and I have no clue what is about to happen and he says we gotta let you go We just signed our first round pick. We don't have to room in our roster. He actually said we want to bring you back Um, I didn't understand what that all men at the time. Mm-hmm, but uh I go out to my car and I drive home back to Fort Worth and it's a seven hour drive and I'm like at this is I have no idea what I'm gonna do now um and Within 24 hours the Seahawks they had claimed my contract and so basically I was now with the Seahawks And so I get on a flight the next day and fly to Seattle and I had wanted to play for Pete Carroll since I was 15 or 16 years really I begged my dad like to send highlight film to USC And my dad actually confessed in a 2011 Christmas card that he sends out to all of our friends and family That he forgot to send it. I'm doing air quotes, right? He just didn't want me to go to California. Of course, and it also is a UT grad. Yes. Yeah, so there's that too but yeah, I got up to Seattle and It was a totally different vibe than it was in New Orleans and I mean everybody's got their own systems And I mean Pete Carroll is not Bill Belichick. They're both successful. Yeah But I needed to Pete Carroll. But you fit that kind of thing that's what you needed. Yeah, and what is it about Pete Carroll that Man, he's so positive and he calls out the best like he believes in you more than you believe in yourself And I've never met anybody who is so committed to that. I mean 99% of his conversation Like you're gonna be like I'm freaking amazing Like we would play highlights every single morning. We would play highlights from the day before And it's just he's constantly trying to remind you like this is why you deserve to be here and Really, I would think that a lot of the film stuff is pretty much just all right everybody sit down all right Here's where you messed up here They do that. So those are two different meetings. Okay, so once so we'll have a team meeting where everybody's there So he's the head coach is meeting motivator Yeah, yeah, okay, and then once they break out into position meetings That's where it's going to be like, okay, this is where we could have done and who do you position with when you're a long snapper? Do you go there's a special teams coordinator? You're special teams. Yeah, okay, so he's all over guys. Yeah Um me the kicker and the punner right and then there's a couple of like second string linebackers or defensive guys who are basically just core special teams players that they're on all four special teams. Yeah Um, and so our meetings were usually short Uh, because there wasn't a whole lot to talk about but um But yeah, Pete he uh, he I've never met anyone more disciplined to their uh philosophy And just his whole focus on the process not worrying about the outcome the outcome will take care of itself we're just gonna make practice like the absolute best practice that that you can make it control the controllables And like actually setting your mind on those things and having the discipline to Bring it back to to those things whenever you start to look out into the future and you know That's what anxiety is like we borrow these things from the future and create a whole other narrative in our brain that yeah And we're more and I feel like a lot of anxiety has to do with like we don't trust God will show up Yeah, yeah, and he's usually the one that does show up. Well, let me put it this way. Deuteronomy says he's always the one that shows up Right some force is not always how we thought he would. Yeah, it's just not yeah, it looks different But uh, it's usually us that have the Diversions and things Hey, this is Chris. Let me take a moment right in the middle of this great conversation To remind you how to get in touch with Paul and Christian men's network in the Global Fatherhood initiative You can find all the resources for mentoring and fatherhood at cmin.min That's the Christian men's network at cmin.min Christian men's network does special events across America and around the world You can find all the information at cmin.min click on events We also have tremendous resources for churches with special discounts for groups on that website Everything your church needs from a to z to mentor and disciple men of all ages and backgrounds Now, let's get back to this powerful interview between Paul and Clint Gresham You told me One time we were talking about this and you told me I saw a photo I can't remember sitting in the book or not about the White House visit. Yeah, yeah Yeah, I want to talk about that in a minute too Want to come back to that Pete Carroll So you you go up to Seattle. You're working. I mean your career starts happening and you end up getting signed and you make the roster Yep, that's gonna be a big deal man Every so my first year So there's an indoor facility that's tied to the building and there's some stairs that go Right by that indoor facility in a big piece of glass that you can look in and see who's in there and every Monday and Tuesday Is when they would bring in guys to try out and every Monday and Tuesday I would walk past and I look in there thinking surely they're gonna bring somebody else in yeah, and like six years later I'm like how did I stay with this long? I tricked these guys. That's fantastic. Yeah, but you were good Obviously you wanted to go into the Super Bowl. Yeah, so what was that first year like you were there? What year was that that was 2010? Okay So I didn't have any community when I moved up Seattle obviously. I didn't know anybody there. I was living in a studio apartment my queen-sized bed was right next to my oven It was awful But I just didn't know what else to do and so well you get there and you just gotta make stuff happen because there's so much going on with Yeah, you know learning plays and all that kind of stuff right? Yeah, and so and that was pretty typical of what what guys would do Especially if it's like, you know, you're here one week and going the next week But I didn't need to be there because I was good enough. I knew that I wasn't gonna be You know cut or anything, but it was actually a couple years later I got connected actually with coach Carroll's assistant who went to USC and was a guy a couple years older than me And him and I just hit it off we went to a couple Bible studies together and we just became really close friends And he was involved in a organization called Young Life and they were doing ministry at high school And They were living next to this high school. It was on Mercer Island, which is between Bellevue and Seattle little community And so I asked them if I can move in with them And because I was like I'm kind of miserable right now. I'm I'm lonely He's friends Yeah, and I moved in with them and that that was a monumental shift in my life Because I had never sort of had that kind of experience. I Like my last couple of years in college I just I just didn't like I wasn't the guy that wanted to go out and party anymore So it's like okay, what do I do now? So that became like this mission outside of football that this is really why I'm here And I would take kids to camp every year. We were hosting Young Life meetings at my house. I actually ended up buying a house in that community and we'd have 100 kids a week coming through and It almost became this this thing like football became very very stressful forming and very very challenging um And it became a like a relief of Like I actually can go do something that's that's really meaningful and some of the The conversations that I would have with these young 15-16-year-old guys about like masculine In some ways you weren't that much older than them. Yeah, right. I mean 10 years older or something like that And then all but you so you still can relate to You know that whole feeling and sense of everything. Yeah, right? So now so now you you're there for a couple years Now when you said it's become more stressful. Was that because the team started doing better? I mean because now there's higher expectations Um, I think it was just my own like anxiety and and like I it would be really hard for me to shake like a bad play Yeah Like in that goes back to just my own Negative self-talk and you know, we were talking about those cards earlier Right like I have these motivational cards and like on one side is an affirmation the other side is the scripture that supports that truth And I literally made those for myself. I made them for me and I when I I probably paid like 70 bucks for the first one Because I only bought one This would be this you didn't think man. This is gonna be awesome. Everybody's gonna have these Yeah, I didn't think that at all set. Yeah, and then all of a sudden I shuddered my wife and show them a couple people and they're like oh my gosh like this really speaks to me so um It makes me feel better about myself too, you know like okay like I'm not the only one who like yes I want a super bowl and that's amazing, but I also have like thoughts of doubt and um Just am I enough? Yeah. Hey, where did you meet your wife? Doing young life really? Yeah, she was not a student. She Fellow young life leader, okay One important caveat school kids great Yeah, we do a little expose right here on brave man. Yeah Yeah, yeah, so she was a young life leader One of my best friends was the area director and his wife was her mentor and so we would see each other and funny thing Several years before I had like written out this list of things that I'd wanted in a spouse and the last four things on there were tall athletic brunette and funny and She's six foot she played volleyball in college She's brown here and her dream is to be on Saturday night live, okay, and she loves god And so I said I want that one. Yeah, exactly. That's awesome man. We've made it for five years Got a little girl two years old kid on the way a little boy on the way, man Yeah, that's a little legacy guy And so then so talking about the Super Bowl season. What year was that? That was 2013 and I knew that we were gonna be good that year Um, I don't know if I knew we were gonna be that good um Well, you have to have a few things that happen. You do stay healthy. Yeah, yeah, it really is like that Like a lot of teams have issues problems something tips over. Yeah The next year and really like Probably at our exit meeting after winning the Super Bowl Coach Carroll showed I think it was like eight moments throughout the season that this really could have gone either way Wow, and all of a sudden were seven and nine yeah, and um Man, that that's just that's just the way that the league is and you know, we go in and The first play against the Broncos this this is in the Super Bowl Okay, so now this is what January of February February something first Sunday, February of yeah 2014 we're in New York And it had been dumping snow so cold and then the next day it was like 55 degrees. So that's a perfect yeah Um, and then a whole other storm came in the the next morning, so we felt fortunate Um, but the first play the the center snapped the ball and it goes over Peyton Manning's head and It was downhill ever since then man and I It it wasn't until there was about six minutes left in the game and we were up 43 to eight at that time right Did I did I think oh my gosh, we're not gonna be able to come back from yes the whole time I like this is Peyton Manning. Yeah, this is the only moment. Yeah if anybody can do it this guy can do yeah And man they just and actually I talked to a buddy of mine who was on their team and he said that they were changing their game plan like the week of Which is you don't do that what once you set that first thing is it's a double-minded Well, they probably said oh shoot, you know, Gresham's on the team. That's right. We're good. That's right. We shift everything now Have a what an amazing thing So what was that moment like you know, it was crazy. It was so it was surreal It like didn't feel real in and TV like makes it feel huge when you're there. It's kind of like This this is quieter than I thought it was gonna be I've been it some Super Bowl. So I know it's a weird feeling. It's a weird thing And it's a lot of corporate people true, you know, so a lot of the worst ticket is like 1500 bucks So those people there they didn't even have a dog in a hunt in a sense Yeah, and so they're leaving then you got a few hard core fans And then and then it becomes this big team made for TV thing and you're all gonna stand there and you go The hats and do stuff and finally you get to celebrate back in a locker room, right? Yeah, what was that like? Like we all kept walking around being like wait like this actually happened Like it was crazy and then we go back and Back to the hotel and they have like a big after party for us and Maclamore was there and he like played his set. He's a huge Seahawks fan um There's actually a picture of me and him on the sideline and the 2013 Rolling Stone magazine. I'm shaking his hand I was shout out to my boy Maclamore. Yeah, there you go um Yeah, cuz he follows us pretty regularly Yeah, so then uh the three days later we have the Super Bowl parade Okay, and that was when it felt real. Okay, and that was like that was the moment. It was like whoa Wow So we we started in kind of like the north side of downtown Seattle and we all met there at nine o'clock in the morning or whatever and they had these huge uh Military vehicles. I don't even know what it was. Yeah, but each one had like the The receivers the running backs the linemen and then the specialists are on one. Yeah And we start driving through downtown Seattle and it's cold. It was probably like 36 degree This is freezing. Yeah, and I stood up on the top of this thing and I'm probably like 15 feet off the ground This thing was huge and I remember we came to an intersection and I mean there's people everywhere And we get to this intersection and I look down one street and then I look down the other and there are people Like two streets back. It's just a like see like a millions of people And so I get up on top of this thing and I like look one direction and I'm like say And everybody goes see and the other side goes. Oh, it was just like Like it was so intoxicating like in a lot of ways, you know, this is it So it was a trip man like it still doesn't feel real. It feels like that was a different life Yeah, now that then this is interesting because you said something One time we were together and you said that about a month later you were with somebody and they said hey man This hasn't it hasn't really sunk in yet hasn't really you know, it doesn't feel real hasn't sunk in yet Yeah, and you had an interesting take on what that really means Yeah, I think about that a lot um, I mean it was It was a month after and then we were talking about it a training camp the next year There was a bunch of us who were all sitting on the hot tub getting ready to go out to practice and just warming up and Guys are like man, can you believe like do we want the Super Bowl? I keep waiting for it to sink in hmm And I started to realize that that statement was was inaccurate It's not that I keep waiting for it to sink in it's I keep waiting for this thing to satisfy me in the way that I thought it would and it hasn't and now I'm I'm unsure now. I'm Scared frankly because I've in a sense burned my ships like this has been my life pursuits This is it I thought it would make me a different person. Yeah, I thought I'd feel a sense of fulfillment in my identity my purpose in life all of that yeah and and It's easy for me to say that and like at the end of the day I can still go home with my Super Bowl ring and Lombardi trophy. Yeah, which is pretty cool, right But those things didn't make any of the stuff that I thought it would fix go away hmm Um, I got something to talk about at a party, you know, but it it's not like Like man now I'm good. Yeah, and and that's that's the nation Then then where you end up a month or two months later you've still got self-doubt self-talk negativity Different things to get on you flat tire in a car, you know normal stuff And and now you're like wait a minute. I thought that I thought I would be living at a different level But it's still you being you. Yeah, right? Yeah, so that's where you found your faith in Christ had to really For be the fulfillment of who you were as a person. That's why you road becoming Because it's you're dealing with identity Right who am I? How do I measure up? Yeah, one of those marks. We are I think all of us sort of have these default identities And it's usually tied to the thing that makes us feel the most significant Mm-hmm for me that was football And it was football for a long time like in high school like I was a I was a sophomore and I got moved up to varsity and dude Texas football you're sophomore you're on varsity come on bro. Yeah, it's it's April and I get my letterman jacket and it's It's a hundred degrees outside for Christ 10,000 percent humidity and I'm pouring sweat into this thing But you are wearing them proud And so I mean Yeah, I mean, I think it takes some time to to really understand it's some real self-reflection that You got to you got to look at like if this thing were gone Like what would that do? Yeah, how would I respond to that? I think that's where we are as men I think we try to satisfy ourselves in hobbies You know like what happens if you build a car that's just awesome Then you got the photo of it and then you sold it to some guy And then there you are he's still you yeah, right Yeah, that um and this is actually where coach carol is so much deeper to me than just a head coach um One of the thousands of players that he coached is his whole deal about the process It's not about the photo. It's it's about the joy of building the car. Yeah And whatever that is, you know, whatever you find yourself to do do with all your might And focusing on that process and whatever I also really believe that whatever fulfills you is going to glorify God in some capacity Doing it as as under the Lord right and so like there are all these things that can become a substitute for our identity and our sense of worth They could also just be something that you love to do That That doesn't start to get into that but that that's like this very fine line because I believe that 99% of the time we're in one side of that ditch or the other yeah um And living in that tension is really really hard. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me about you guys ended up the White House Yeah, right and there was a particular moment And in fact you can see it in the photo is it in the book is that where I saw it or did you show it? I showed it to you online Yeah, you showed it to me online. So tell me about that that experience because it's something that Pete Carroll did in that moment That for you helped you learn what a father is Yeah um Going to the White House was a bizarre experience Obviously like you know through all the security and the world Waiting for President Obama to come in and we had wait for like three hours. It's like he's trying to run the country or something That like this other issue is going on. Yeah, and so uh he finally comes in and he says a couple words to the team And then we all walk past him and shake his hand and then right after that we go into the press conference room And somehow I don't know my mama. We said that I had an eye for the camera I end up being like right behind President Obama Probably the last guy that should be there But here I am as though it's like Russell Wilson Richard Sherman and Clint Resham long-staff So He's addressing the world and he's talking about the team and he starts talking about the Legion of Boom Which was a a a name that was given to our defensive backfield these four guys And they were dominant. I mean they were so good. I think I think we had I think we were like plus 20 something in the turnover ratio that year so wow We took the ball away from them where they did uh and who was that who was in that So um That's kind of where it got a little bit tricky So he's up there and he's talking and he's he's talking about the Legion of Boom and he starts listening the guys names off He's like, you know, we got guys like Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas and Cam Chancellor and then he says this other guys name and When he said that I thought Well, that's super embarrassing. He just got that wrong That was that was not the right guy had the wrong guy he had the wrong guy And the reason that he had the wrong guy is because The original guy's name was Brandon Browner and he was a beast he'd been there since I think he got there in 2011 He's six foot two cornerback. I mean he was a huge dude especially for a cornerback Uh Something had happened and he wasn't able to play in the Super Bowl well And so Whoever wrote this thing, you know, gets a report of who the starters were in the Super Bowl and they put the other guys name on there Brandon didn't get to play in the Super Bowl But Brandon was like a driving force to the whole year For for years like the whole Legion of Legion of Boom thing it was like part of his he was that guy He was that guy And so as soon as he said this other other players name and didn't say his name and didn't say his name And like you got to think of it from the also from the perspective of like here you have this young African-American man And he's about to hear his name called by the first African-American president of the United States of America Like what what a deep profound beautiful moment and then he says somebody else's name And he's got it wrong And then like whoa what's what's happening there and So like there's there's shame with that like that he didn't get to play in the game Uh But as soon as that happened I glanced up at Brandon and you you can see it on the video if you look it up on YouTube when the 2013 at the White House Brandon sort of lowers his head And I look over at coach Carol and coach Carol glances back up at Brandon and he just sort of like nods at him and says like I know the truth yeah You were Important here like you mattered here And I think about like Just us as men and I mean all of us have got like some type of wound and somewhere where we're wanting to be affirmed And we were like holding out hope that like somebody's gonna see me and validate me And all of a sudden we don't realize that we're sort of lifting this person up to this place of Of God like in a lot of ways Um, and it's like the whole time god the father just like coach Carol there is like even though they don't see you And you're not getting that affirmation at work or your wife is not Noticing all of the things that you've done for her all the great stuff. Yeah Yeah, like all of those things like we've all got that stuff like like god saying like you but I see everything that's done in secret And I'm gonna bring it out into the light and I'm gonna reward you openly for him But I just want like you and me like our eyes have got to meet here Because I'm the one that you need to be hearing this from and like yes affirmation from people is important And that's what and that's what coach Carol did for Brandon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and so that perfect picture of god the father that that I got shaped me You know, yeah, okay. I wrote a whole chapter about coach Carol. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, so the next year you guys go back to the Super Bowl again Yeah, I mean incredible right? Yeah, that was that was interesting like we started off that season two and two and four Yeah, everybody thought okay Yeah, one hit wonder Wasn't the case man Russell Wilson and I mean our whole team just just rallied and we had a couple of guys come back and Man, we just make a run for it and So the NFC championship game that year we played against the Packers and that was that was crazy Where did you play that? Where was the in Seattle in Seattle? So we had the to you had the home field. Yeah, we had home field advantage Which is huge because the twelfth man up there is oh ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy You know green Bay is one of those places when they play in the winter Because I had an outdoor stadium You know half the town sits in their garages outside Yeah in the freezing weather just to feel like they're bonding or brotherhood. It's an interesting place I play there I play there once and you're you're driving through this like neighborhood built in the fifties. Yeah, and then oh There's that billion dollar franchise right next to the park Well, the city actually a whole lot of people thousands of people actually own shares of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So it's like community owned. It's pretty cool. That's a pretty it's pretty neat thing and it the only reason I would ever have any kind of like Little affinity It's because Reggie White played. Yeah. Yeah, that legend other net other net, you know, and there were some other legends Obviously Vince Lombard and stuff, but yeah, so now you guys are playing the Packers playing the Packers in Seattle They're beating us like crazy. We're down. Uh, I think it was two scores with just a couple minutes left in the game and Miraculously we start to come back and I think there was about a minute left and we're kicking an onside kick Wow, and we got a score touchdown to take it into overtime and There was a missed assignment by a guy from Green Bay and he didn't do his job He tried to go up and catch the ball when he was supposed to go and block the guy Yeah, and that's something that that we talked about every single week whenever you go out and do hands-team like do not do that Like your job is this that's a whole other lesson obviously Um, but so he jumps up tries to catch it. We get the ball We go and see that's then that's one thing that's changed and football now. They've kind of messed that up I know I have to fix that they got to fix that because you can't get an onside kick now. Yeah The Falcons got one the other day because you're kiddie hawks shockingly a guy bust is it bust that it is Same deal. I'm actually yeah, okay, but yeah, it's rare anyway extremely rare So here you guys get the ball back we get the ball back and We win the coin toss, which is important because that means you can decide to get the ball first and whoever scores first If you get a touchdown game over yeah, so We start off with a ball and I think it was third down and Russell Wilson throws a Hail Mary to germane curse It's like a 40 yard pass and the dude catches it And all of a sudden it's like Wait a second How on earth did that just happen like it was a crazy moment of coming back and all of a sudden we're we're back in the Super Bowl and and honestly like I I can't speak for everybody, but um, I mean part of it was I'm really excited about that. Yeah, I also know how intense the next two weeks are gonna be yeah, and It was hard But we get to the game we get to Phoenix and I mean that game was It's it's still hard to talk about and frustrating because um, you know We end up coming back. We need to score a touchdown There's a minute left in that game. We drive the ball down the field all the way down the field There's like some unbelievable miraculous catches Germaine curse was an absolute beast in that game Um We're on the one yard line 36 inches away. Yeah from Getting ahead and beating the Patriots. Yeah, because you there's very little time left. There's no way I mean, yeah, obviously Brady had in some other games come back with no time left or Yeah, but that's not gonna happen with the guys you had in the back field on defense Yeah, we would have just been playing prevent defense and back every battle. Yeah So that means basically you got to go one yard one yard put it in win the game and so And you're down at this point, right? We're down at this point. I know what we're down by four Because that or four more um because we need your score touchdown. So Uh, I was on the sidelines. I was actually just getting ready for the PAT because I knew that we were about to go ahead Yeah, and I wasn't even watching and all of a sudden I hear half of the stadium start to go Nuts and I look up and I see the Patriots start running onto the field And then I look up when I see the replay and we throw in the ball this guy Mm-hmm, you know Makes the play of his life. Yeah, that fluke play really and picked us off in the in zone and I literally just fell to the ground wow and it was It was so intense. It was so intense and just like Yeah, because a football fan football fans would know that one of the things was is that you had one of the premier Runners, yeah, it was a power runner. Yeah, so it was a power runner And as well as I mean he could run fast. You know the guy was a pretty amazing player But but as a power runner to get one yard with everybody that intense about it And with the kinds of plays that Pete Carroll would come up with. Yeah, it was kind of a sense You had two shots at a third and fourth time to get in Probably going to do this. Yeah, probably going to get in one the game And instead he goes against type right throws a pass because he thought it would throw them Nobody would be waiting for it. Yeah, and it turned out the kid that caught the pass They intercepted it. What was his name again Malcolm Butler Malcolm Butler Actually had had overplayed the wrong defense And shouldn't have even been in that spot. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's that's football though. Yeah. Yeah, that's football and Like now now that I'm removed from it If you look at it just from a statistical standpoint It actually was the right play. Yeah Which is hard to accept because it doesn't make sense but but if you don't want everybody he's genius Right, and he is a genius, so it doesn't change anything But yeah, we know what happens when you when you guys come off the field Yeah, so that's it It's really intense. We all go into the locker room some guys are Very very heated. Yeah, cussing out people Yeah, it's under pressure. They don't know how to read. They don't know how to vent Yeah, yeah, and so coach Carroll says a couple words to the team and then he looks at me He's like all right, Gresh go ahead and pray for us. Oh shoot. I'm like oh god So he says a few. All right guys. Yeah, yeah, good game. Sorry. We lost you know Okay, Gresh you take over. Yeah, I got nothing. Uh, I don't know god curse the Patriots That's right. May their children mine them. That's right And uh, yeah, I mean he never went another Super Bowl and that didn't work. So you're the guy. Yeah, right So you're the you see you're the man that coach Carroll turns to and says all right Everybody take a knee. Let's pray. Gresh. You got it because I got nothing And I didn't really either it was it was a good idea for what you said. No, I have no idea. I totally blacked out Oh, man. Yeah, you know, we go back to the to the hotel and like they still have the after party. Yeah, and Snoop Dogg was there Drake was there and I remember Drake Drake came out on stage and there's probably a thousand people there I just like friends and family. Yeah Um, and he's like all right y'all. I know we lost the game But we're gonna have fun tonight and everybody's like yeah, no, we're not I don't know if we're gonna have fun, but Yeah, so now it's a now uh, you're not playing football right now. You're you're doing real estate You're doing some of the things you're speaking mm-hmm, right traveling speaking people could have you come in and speak You're you're great with youth groups and stuff. You've got a succinct story not drawing out like I just did it Yeah for the last hour, but but you've got a really powerful word I mean guys really sit on the edge of the seats. I've watched you you've been with us and it's absolutely phenomenal Yeah, it's it's been cool hearing People resonate with things that I have to say I wouldn't say that I'm like a conventional Like I'm a man speaker mm-hmm Because because I talk about a lot of heart stuff. Yeah, and that's that's that you know pandora's box for so many men that I don't I don't know if I want to open that Well guys don't want to open it and the problem is then they keep it shut and they get all jacked up In her lives because they haven't opened it. I haven't been honest with her wife You know, and they started acting out on in different ways because they haven't really gotten real with God. Yeah, right And so you help guys do that You know as a speaker and that sort of thing You and your wife matter you're living in the Dallas area, right? Yep a little baby coming so that's fantastic And post football has been in interesting journey for you Yeah, I I would say that I mean I could have told everybody my identity is not in football But it's inevitable what you do is gonna have a piece of you and and it's okay It really is okay. It took me a while to get to that point. I'm like, it's actually okay Um, and so yeah still traveling around every now and then obviously COVID has shut that down but um just Enjoying being with my family. Yeah, and being with my little girl like I get to spend so much time with my little girl And she lights up if she lights up my world. I can't stop. Yeah, but if somebody calls and said, you know We need some help man. We got a guy hurt. You're ready to go No, okay My body would break into a million pieces And meld into the Seahawks dating with with all the skittles that Marshawn Lynch left on the field. Yeah, exactly Yeah, so so that thing. Yeah, it's it's funny It's uh for some of us who didn't play anywhere close to that level You know, there's there's always that uh when you're out shooting in the driveway, you know Shooting hoops and you're mid thirties. Yeah, and you think you know I still got it. That was a pretty good shot I could do that with somebody on me now. There's no yeah, right? You know you got that thing But but man you're moving into some new stuff. It's I just want to mention again the book is called becoming by glint clint aggression and Great book getting on Amazon And I like the way you've laid it out get all kinds of great graphics in it You pull out some of the key thoughts Like this one people bound with with the fear of man think people are bigger than God This is this great stuff, man. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, it feels like my son in a lot of ways Oh really like I my my put my soul in it. Yeah, it was a child rebirth. Yeah. Yeah, yeah exactly Yeah, it's it's it's a tremendous book. So I want to mention that to everybody. It's called becoming clint Gresham g-r-e-s-h-a-m And that's your website, too, isn't it? Yes, and if people want to get those cards It's called iTalk typically based affirmations and uh they're on my website clintgresham.com clintgresham.com That's pretty cool And uh we just pray the Lord those blesses you and all the things that you do and uh we just love hanging out with you man Yeah, man, this is great being here. Yeah, that's awesome You've been a force in my life from from afar for for years before we met. So yeah, it's nice to be here Yeah, now it's great And uh but I just I do want guys to get ahold of this. I think you know in fact here's what I'd like to do I'd like us to get together another time We talked football and we talked some life and we talked your background and how these things happen and And all that I'd like to just go you know piece by piece through the book sometime. Yeah You know just all the little parts of of the teaching side of it. I know you've got a lot of story in it What we discovered, but and then um and so the future looks like what what do you think next five years? What are you thinking? That's a good question. Yeah, I'm sort of in a season of of uh I feel like I'm in a season of waiting almost like Psalm 46. We still know that I'm going. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm in that season right now. Yeah, and it's beautiful. It's hard But but slowing down like life life just got way too fast Yeah, and I was missing moments and Thankfully, I'm fortunate enough that I can slow down and be with my family. So I'm not sure what the future holds. Yeah. Well, I do I do know what part of it's going to be is you're gonna You're gonna speak into the lives of a lot of young men And like some of your friends Steve Weatherford that we've talked about and guys like that that Think highly of you and you saw him a young that with the NFL office and those guys You know, we need men like you Clint speaking into people's lives Uh, you've got a gift for that. You've got the ability to stand up guys listen to you Uh, even as a young man, I watch you speak to guys in their 50s and 40s and talk to them about stuff and they're going like Yeah, this this kid's right You know, but it's the power of the Holy Spirit and I thank you for yielding yourself to God and I know there's lots of Ways that we navigate through life and stuff But I just you know, we pray that the Lord will continually bless you and what you do you and your wife Thank you every area of your life. So thanks for being on brave men today. Thanks for having me That's also Paul I have to share this quote with you. I know you read the book, but this just rocked me Identity has nothing to do with what you do Yeah, that's so powerful. Yeah, because you would think you have these athletes or you have these pastors You have these heroes that you know are built in what they do But it wasn't what they did that got them there No, it's who they are Wow, yeah, and that's and that's the key thing. I think that young men need to understand is it's uh, we we work so much on our talent Yes, that we forget to develop our character. Yes, you know, or it's not even emphasized In fact, you know, these these professional athletes in particular the men or our college or whatever it may be You know, they're treated a certain way because of their talent exactly, but it doesn't mean they've got character No, it doesn't and it just makes me think of, you know, proverbs 23-7 which I know is like a Something we always use in this ministry, you know champ are So a man thinks in his heart and so is he so is he and it's like My question to these guys sometimes I was like, who do you think you are? Yeah, because it's like who you are is You know, what allows you to go to the maximum of who you can be You know, you are right who you are is how you make decisions based on your definition And we talked about that in the book just a bartender. Yes, about the life of the NMI You can get that on cmn.men just a bartender and that's a book on identity that we wrote In fact, I'm looking right now at the Vietnamese yes version of that. It's in Spanish. We have tools on cmn.men in 34 different languages And so you can get those on cmn.men Also all the tools for doing men's group For having a ministry to manage your church all that's on there. There's different It's a whole bunch of different things that we have there the guys can use and and but man, you know Seriously, I hold Clint Gresham. He's a young guy But I'd hold him up for a lot of guys and say hey live like this. Yeah, it doesn't mean it's perfect He still goes through stuff. Yeah, you know now that you know, he said, you know, you he played six years played almost 200 games. Yeah, and we talked about that in the NFL, which is amazing when the average career is what two and a half years or so And so it's amazing what he did and yet he talked about Now being without a team right now. I mean he goes. Yeah, they fired me That's how he talked They fired me. There's a fascinating concept, but he was really smart with what he does and now he's us, you know motivational speaker Christian strong believer and Amazing a remarkable interview. So I think that share this thing. Yeah, but the biggest thing we have to recognize I think to sum up everything from the book and just him is the definition of not Stopping of becoming. Yeah, we should always be progressing in life And I think the biggest killer of life is complacency. It's when we stop Growing, you know, and I think that we have to put ourselves around heroes put ourself around people that are doing more than we're doing Push you. Yeah, exactly in a sense. They don't push you as much as they pull you exactly like. Yeah, it's like Yeah, I want to go there. Yes, I want to go there. So it kind of pulls you towards that exactly never be okay at being where you're at Because there's always more sour and mean the purpose driven life was a bad title should have been the purpose led Dr. Yeah, maybe you know if you read titles that might do well Haha, I think you're gonna be getting the call from someone too. I don't think so. I think he's pretty comfortable in everything But the fact is is that Clint Gresham. Thank you for being with us, bro. Yes, man remarkable story and so vulnerable Yes, you know honest about it vulnerable He's just that kind of guy when you're with him. He's the same. I mean he didn't put on anything you met him Yeah, you got the rings. Yes, I did. Yeah, you got a photo of it. Yes, I did in a picture with him. That was great It's a big deal. Hey, but I just want to throw this in there too I mean the Lakers won the championship and I said on this raveman that they were going to win the championship and I think it's The Seahawks are next. Yeah. Well, here's a deal Here's a deal Nobody really cares No, I was I was you know, I grew up in Southern California in Northern California Sanctuary So I was a Lakers and a Warriors fan back in the day and So good for them and good for those guys and good for genie bus and yes to honor her dad and family and cobie and for cobie I think you know that Again, you go back to we did a podcast. Yes, powerful one and talked about what he did the day he passed away Yeah, his daughter to mass got up early that morning didn't have to do it didn't have to do anything really I got up took his daughter to mass and he was gonna go be an assistant coach for his Her daughter's a basketball team when he passed away. So he did it for cobie and I thought AD Really gave a beautiful picture of that. Yes, you know when when the Lakers won So Clint Gresham. Thanks for being with us man. That was a fantastic You know story and testimony Chris. Thanks for being a co-host. Go see him. Yeah, come on And no, I'll give you that. It's okay. I'm just good with that. It doesn't matter And so uh, but thanks for being with us on brave men today and being part of this podcast Family make sure you share it and click on it. Give us a what's the other subscribe subscribe to it and then also write a review Write a review. Yeah, cuz reviews help don't they? Yeah, if you're a see-hawks fan, let me know. Oh man Anyway, those are the ones we'll delete Now we won't believe it on there But if you want to put something down there about the chiefs or packers, there's always a packers guy out there somewhere I mean, there's not anywhere. I've never gotten anywhere and said hey, who you know, it's go favorite team whatever Yes, but there hasn't been one packers guy. I'm talking about Argentina Peru well, they're cheeseheads. So I mean there's cheese everywhere Yeah, and so anyway Hey, uh Chris, thanks man and thank you Clint and thank you for being with us on brave men our prayer for you today Is it God will give you the great depth of his love Not only in in reading it, but in sensing it and feeling it today and knowing That you're deeply loved and God gives you his grace and mercy without Any without anything held back at all Hey, thanks for being part of brave men God bless you You just experienced brave man with Paul Lewis Cole Paul is president of the Christian men's network connect with Paul at cmn.man or write to him at Paul at cmn.man