BraveMen S3E56: Jody Hice - From Pulpit to Politics - The Unusual Transformation of a Good Man

It seems like to me that people who are congressmen and congresswomen, we vote for them, we do all this election stuff and then once they get to Washington ADC, we forget about them and yet they are so important as to what happens in our world and the world we live in here in the United States where I live. And Chris, you have a friend that you introduced to me recently and we spent some time together talking and that's congressman Jody Heiss. Yes, amazing guy. Yeah, man, remarkable. One of the first things I think of when I think of Jody Heiss is his servant heart. And every time I was around him, he, given the position that he was in, he wasn't looking for us to do anything for him. He was always making himself available to us. Not amazing, and yet at the same time, he's one of only 400 and something congresspeople that there are. And they have a lot to do with government. This guy, Jody Heiss is on the oversight committee for justice reform for national security. Oh, I know one that I, in our conversation that he and I talked about water oceans and wildlife, national parks for us. Yeah, I hit him on plastic. How are you going to do it like that? Yeah, I thought he's a brother. It was, I didn't hit him. I was this more like, more like, hey, man, what are we going to do? Yeah, it was a wee thing. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm here. My name is Paul Cole. I'm here with Chris Shields, and this is the Brave Men podcast. And excited to do another one. We're over 50 podcasts now. Yes, we are. I talked to a guy the other day, forget where I was. I was somewhere in the US. And the guy says, man, I've listened to every single one. Wow. So I looked at him. I went every single one like seriously, really? Did you try and tell him a number and say, which one was this one? Yeah. What was number 32? Yeah. That's like when you used to drop money when you were a kid and you'd pick it up, somebody else's money and it'd go, that's mine. You go, oh, yeah, what's the date? Or I would just respond. Your name's not on it. Your name's not on it. Yeah. Anyway, but yeah, this podcast, Brave Men podcast, we've got guys all over the world now responding to it. Amazing. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Amazing. And then for everybody to be able to meet people like Jody Heiss, you know, we had tomorrow Davis on here. We've had a number of different people, David Barton. Yeah. And all in North, all sorts of leaders. Yes. And thought provokers. And Jody Heiss is that guy. This guy, he was at Asbury University, graduated there. And then he has a demon, doctor ministry from Luther Rice, master's degree from Southwestern Baptist. And he was a pastor for years. And he ends up, it's a, I won't give it away. I won't give it away. It's a great conversation. Yes. But you forgot something. What's that? He's a Georgia Bulldog. Oh, my God. And he would not want you to talk about him without mentioning that because he is a diehard Georgia book fan. I know we got it. They are undefeated. And then the number three in the nation right now, he's excited about that. That's right now. It'll, it'll fade. Don't worry. Yeah, they play Alabama this week. So we'll see what happens. So I asked you, I asked him. I said, Georgia Georgia deck. So it's what we did get into the conversation on that. So this is, this is great. Congressman Jodi High. So I want to thank God for people like this who are in leadership, who are involved in the leadership of a nation. I believe every single country that we're in, we need to elect men and women who have righteous underpinnings that are lives, who have strict moral values, who have a center point of justice and of loving others because he, because we even talked about it, he said, you know, he makes decisions based on what's best for people, not just his position. Yeah, he's the definition of a servant leader. That's what he is. And that's why God has been so faithful in his life and in the journey and opened up doors that have been so magnificent. I really believe there's even greater doors ahead of him. You know, he's just a man of integrity. And when he says he's going to do something, he does it. And he makes the time to make you feel important whenever you're around him. And I love that about him. Yeah. Congressman Jodi Highs from the, uh, Georgia 10th congressional district today on Brave Man. It's Brave Man with Paul Lewis Cole. Wisdom encourage for the journey. Hi, I'm with Congressman Jodi Highs and it is really a pleasure to be with you and and we'll give some of your CV. But you're in Congress at a really crazy chaotic time. I know everybody's pausing for a moment today. We're talking for the Memorial Services for Representative Lewis. But man, it just seems, is it change every day? Is there something new that seems to come up every day, Congressman? Yeah, it really is. I mean, every day, it seems to in the context of today, let me put it this way. It just seems like things cannot get any worse. And then the tomorrow comes along. And it's just something else that happens. And, you know, so these are critical times for our country. I believe at the end of the day, all of it is a spiritual issue. And, you know, we've got to look at it from that perspective. And we're dealing with issues that cannot be fixed with another piece of legislation. Nor can they be fixed just by throwing more money at it. These are spiritual problems and they require the people of God to stand up and help provide some spiritual answers. And, you know, part of my biggest prayer is that God would send a spiritual awakening across his country and that the body of Christ would awaken and engage this thing and help and have a gay or a country through these very perilous days. Yeah, amen. You know, that, what you're saying here sounds like it's probably a minority opinion in your city. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know, but I share it openly and share it frequently. And it would surprise you how many people come up afterwards after making those kind of comments and say, man, you're right. We know, we know it's right. You know, if, if we're on another piece of legislation, I mean, look, terrorism and killings and all this kind it's already illegal, right? Right. We already have laws that say, you're not supposed to kill people. We already have laws that say you're not supposed to riot. You're not supposed to burn buildings down. But what good are those laws? You know, they're not. So another law is not going to help it. We have a hard problem in this country and we've got to at some point quick kicking God out of the public square and embrace the fact that ours is a country that does not work without the understanding that people self-govern their own lives ultimately the only way you can have limited government is if you have people capable of self-governing their own lives and that's a hard issue. It comes from, and that's why our founders, frankly, and I know this in the direction you wanted to go, but our founders talked about two indispensable pillars of American structure and that's a religion and morality, specifically Christianity and morality without that. You cannot have limited state government if you don't have people who are able to live with an authentic understanding of right and wrong. That comes from a relationship with Christ and that is the biggest need of the hour for our country right now. You know, it was Patrick Henry. If I'm not mistaken who's a very famous revolutionary and founder of the nation who said, make no mistake who were the Christians who were praying and working that made this nation great and that launched it. He said, make no mistake what the foundation is. It didn't just come out of some sort of the end or, you know, Netherworld. That's right. He said, our nation was founded not by religionist but by Christians. Not on the gospel of Jesus Christ. I mean, that's specifically the words of Patrick Henry. Now, you go, you're pastoring. You come out of your born in Georgia, you're pastoring. You go to Asbury Theological and then you pastory, you've gone to other schools and what in the world grabbed the hold of you and said you should run for Congress. You know, I get that question thrown to me a lot. You know, the bottom line is we felt like that's where God was calling us at this point. Specifically, you know, I look back and I see the fingerprints, the handprints of God all across this. We actually were involved in a couple of cases as a pastor that took on national attention, national focus and really threw me into Congress. And one of them was a battle with the ACLU over the 10 Commandments in our courthouse, which our church put those Commandments in our courthouse. And that lawsuit took on national focus and I became the face of that battle. And then shortly thereafter, the IRS had a battle with pastors and what they can say from the pulpit. And I became one of 33 pastors that challenged the IRS. That also took on national focus. And before I knew it, man, we were, you know, these were battles. It came our way. I wasn't looking for them, but they came our way and God used those to begin redefining the direction of my life at this point in my life. And that ends up being Congress. So I look at it. I mean, most of people in Congress is still calling pastor. So it's all while we're in Congress, it's still all about being an ambassador for Christ wherever we are. Be that in the pulpit or be that in the halls of Congress or wherever else anyone is serving. Yeah, that's true. Now, so you would have a unique perspective then how a man would navigate. Let's say I've got a friend listening to you and I and he runs a business. He's got a place that does transmissions. And, you know, he tries to treat his employees well. He tries to do that, but he's wondering, you know, how is it that this is living out the Christian walk? What am I, I don't feel like I'm doing anything. And at the same time, I'm not sure I can do anything. How do I make a difference? How is a man navigate that kind of place? Yeah, it's a great question, but to be honest, the answer is the same for all of us. It comes down to a personal intimate, ongoing relationship with Jesus Christ and pursuing that relationship on a daily basis. And, you know, I feel with the description, you just laid out, I feel very much the same way, even as a member of Congress. People look at me and say, Oh, man, you're a Congressman. You've got all kind of power. You've got, listen, I learned early on, my first week in Congress, as a member of Congress, I am less than one quarter of one percent of Congress. And yet everybody in my district tells me, go up there and change Washington. And it doesn't take you long to find out that being less than a quarter of one percent, the odds are stacked against you. So I spend much of my time like the person you just described. I feel like I'm hitting my head up against the wall. I feel like I'm working, but not getting any progress, like I'm not really making an impact in our country. You know, all those feelings, but at the end of the day, all that matters is a walk with God. And he places all of us in a variety of places, whether it's in the transmission shop or it's in the classroom or it's in the business world or it's in our families or it's in the halls of Congress. All of us combined, being light in the midst of a dark world, it all adds up of making a great impact, but it's not up to one of us individually to do it all. We can't do it. I think having had an office in Washington DC and worked in and out of there for years in my previous career, I would say the first time you find out who you really are is one day, allocates your office space. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I had that experience too. Virtually a closet. To this day, it's surprising to people, but I sleep in my office. My office literally is my home. I have a cot in my closet and every night I pull the cot out and literally sleep in my office. People don't really understand that, but I'm certainly not alone with that. Probably a third of the representatives up there do the same thing. Yeah, that's amazing. The thing is, we do expect change. We do say, hey, go up there and change things and how do you keep from being frustrated? How do you keep hope alive in that, since Dr. Heiss? You're combating these things and you said each day is some sort of chaos. And then the next day is a greater chaos. How do I keep myself above water and you deal with a single day? Yeah, I would start by saying that I don't recall. I'm sorry, but I don't recall saying that I don't get frustrated. I listen very much, very much, I get frustrated. And if there is any one thing that I personally struggle with more than anything else, it would be not becoming cynical, because you in this role do feel so small in the midst of a system that is so large and so powerful. And it seems at times totally hopeless to turn this thing around. So I do struggle with that. And it's important for people to understand I struggle with that. But others do too. And the fact is the remedy for that again, you know, I don't start a day without first, in fact, I said it up very specifically to have the cleaning crew come at 5 a.m. So I'm up at 4.45 every morning, right now, because of COVID, the showers are closed and we're having to alter a few things, but as a general rule, I'm up at 4.45. I go down, get my shower. I come back. I have my quiet time. I have my time alone with the Lord. I get the word in my heart. I get my heart prepared for the day. And then I just, you know, it's basically Lord help me. Let's run to the battle. Let's stand as well as we can. And, you know, if it weren't for that, if it and if it weren't for some other believers that I have some Bible studies with and that type of thing throughout the week, it would be a very different story. But all believers need the body of Christ and all of us need a personal pursuit on a daily basis to be fresh for whatever the day brings our way to stand for the Lord. Yeah, no question. I really appreciate that. And I think all of us who are listening right now appreciate that. I'm speaking with the Congressman Jody Heist from Georgia. And you married two children, two daughters. You've got grandchildren. You got how do you balance the whole family thing because I remember being around Washington DC and into Beltway and the Congress and in the Senate and all this and it felt to me like everybody worked from six in the morning till midnight. Yeah, it's really true. Our days are generally speaking 12 to 16 hours every day. And even when we're back home in the district, it's it's like that. I mean, I never, ever could have anticipated what the schedule is like being a representative. It is far more demanding than I ever anticipated. And I must tell you, the family question is the most difficult issue that I have experienced as a Congressman. My wife, Dee Dee and I, we've been married 34 years. We've done everything together. We've been in ministry together. And now all of a sudden, I'm gone all week. Now I go home. I come home every weekend, but I'm gone all week. It has been an enormous strain of especially for her. As you said, when I'm there, I'm so busy as just kind of holding on for dear life sometimes. But with her, I mean, she's home alone. Our girls are grown and gone. And that has been an extremely difficult transition for both of us. And, you know, we have worked through it. We're doing much better. But the first couple of years, it was extremely stressful. I can't tell you how many times I cried leaving our driveway going again, did being gone again. But it's, you know, that is a stress. It's a stressful thing for families as a whole. It's, you know, let me put it this way. I just, my observation, it's a stressful thing for someone who actually deeply cares about their family. Oh, yeah. For those people who are after power position, popularity of things, you know, talk about it with some people the other day that pride is the core of sin, but the fuel of pride is lost. And Proverbs 27 says you can, you can check the character of a man by giving him a measure of fame. And I think that there's a lot of people who'd rather see themselves in the headlines of an online magazine that end the driveway of their own home. Yeah, you know, I think that's very true for a lot of people. And what I can tell you, that's been the number one struggle that I have. I hate being away from home. But, you know, it is what it is. And we've kind of helped us all this by recognizing that we have many military men and women who are deployed for months and months and months. And many of them, one deployment after another, they've given their lives for our country. And so we have just come to look at this as a point in our lives that God has opened the door for us to serve our country in this capacity. And that has helped us, helped us among other things to work for it. Hey, this is Chris. Let me take a moment right in the middle of this great conversation to remind you how to get in touch with Paul and Christian Men's Network and the Global Fatherhood Initiative. You can find all the resources for mentoring and fatherhood at cmn.men. That's the Christian Men's Network at cmn.men. Christian Men's Network does special events across America and around the world. You can find all the information at cmn.men. Click on events. We also have tremendous resources for churches with special discounts for groups on that website. Everything a church needs from A to Z to mentoring disciple men of all ages and backgrounds. Now, let's get back to this powerful interview between Paul and Congressman Jody Heiss. Well, I mean, you know, all of us in the Christian Men's Network, thank God for you and other members of Congress. And whatever nation somebody is listening to right now, because we're in over a hundred countries, you know, we need to pray. All of us need to pray for our people in government, whether it's a parliamentary type of government by camera roll or what we have here in the US with a democratic form. Now, let me because I grew up in California and I warned you about this because I grew up in the ocean. I'm real concerned about the sea of plastic in the North Pacific, you know, all that kind of stuff. And you're on some of these committees and subcommittees on natural resources. People ask me, so you're an environmentalist and I say, no, absolutely not, but I am a conservationist. And so where do you know, where are we at on all of this? Just, I mean, just between you and me and 140 other countries, I get it. Where are we at on this thing? It feels like, you know, the whole war on plastic or whatever it may be. Maybe that's not even the right direction for us. How do we as general people? How do we fight this thing? Where would our lives be without plastic? Where would our lives be without combustion engine? You know, where would we have certain resources and things available to us that not only we as individuals and our families, our lives, our nation so heavily dependent upon economically. But some of these things do have some consequences. And, you know, it is appropriate for us to be considering as conservationists, as people who understand that we are here to be good stewards of the world that God has given us. And yet at the same time, we're to have dominion over it and we're to make the best of it and and have opportunity. It's a both and scenario. I do not buy into the philosophy that it's one or the other. It is a both and and we can continue having some of these products and utilizing them while at the same time doing so safely and in a wise kind of way. And I believe that's where we need to be moving towards rather than the eradication of this product or the next. There's a way to walk into God safely. And I believe that's the direction we need to go. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more on that. You know, it truly is. You know, the things that we have made our life better. Absolutely. And yet perhaps a friend of mine, Lynn Sweet, and I was talking about where stewards of the earth and he and I were chatting about this. And he stopped me for a moment. He's a real word person. And he said, no, he said, we're more than stewards. He said, we're trustees. Because a steward can quit the job or a steward can, you know, kind of be pushed aside or a steward can say, well, that's not mine over there. He said, a trustee actually has a legal consequence to whatever they do or don't do. He said, I believe the word that the Lord used in the original language was that you're a trustee of the earth. That's a great perspective. And to be honest, with you, I don't remember the specific word that was used, but I would like to go back and look. And I would not be at all surprised if he's not very accurate because that is a good description. We have been entrusted. This world, God created it and then entrusted it to us to take care of, to rule over, but to do so in a responsible manner. So as a Christian, I was talking with Jim Libertor yesterday. He said, head of the outdoor sporting group and outdoor magazine, guns and ammo, all that whole group of magazines and television channels and so forth. And he was talking about how, one of his messages is hunters are some of the greatest conservationists you'll ever meet. Because they're concerned about wildlife. Because if there is a wildlife, then they don't get to practice what they practice. So it's a fascinating and sort of thing, right? Absolutely. And I'm one of those people. I'm an outdoorsman and I'm a hunter. And I love the outdoors. And I love the wildlife. I love getting there. And I would go to bat for anyone who says they love the outdoors anymore than I did or who wants to care for it anymore than I did. So you have a good point there. And I believe many of those outdoor people do have a unique special love and respect for the creation that we have. Yeah. I think my cousin who's been a member of Ducks on Limited for 40 years, he was telling me something about Ducks Unlimited has actually purchased or set aside or been able to protect more wetlands than even the government programs that they've done. So it's a it's a fascinating thing because too often what happens is people look at the surface, they don't study things. We look at a meme, you know, now with social media and Instagram and all that. We look at a graphic, we see the headline and we're just off with that. So people can say things like they totally change the narrative like representative Nailer with with his comment on Portland that it's a myth that there's writers. You know, and it's and it's that whole thing. If you say something long enough and loud enough, people begin to believe it. And so as we as we close, I want to thank you for this amount of time because I know your time is extremely valuable. But I'm with Congress and Jody Heiss from Georgia. And you can look them up. It's H-I-C-E-J-O-D-Y-H-I-C-E is a number of committees. Pray for him, pray for our Congress people, pray for our senators, pray for everybody in local government. And I want to just add this. I believe that there are some who are listening right now who should be running for the local school board. You should be very involved in your local political things. I think Christians need to be involved. And I just want to finish with that. Why is it? I mean, that's that's my belief. But you're the theologian and and the congressman. Why is it that we should be involved from a biblical standpoint, biblical basis? I believe as Americans we have two reasons. Number one is a just from a purely national political constitutional perspective. Hours is the system that does not work without we the people being involved. And so just from where we live in our country, this is a country from the local all the way to the federal. Our system of government does not work unless we the people step up to the plate and get involved with it. That in itself is an enormous reason. But you go beyond that. And we as Christians have the command of the Lord Jesus himself to be salt and light in this world. It is impossible to be salt and light if you're not engaged by definition being salt and light means that you are engaged. And if you are not engaged, Jesus tells us there that the only if the salt loses its saltiness, it is good for nothing any more but to be trampled under foot by men. And in many respects, that's what's happening today. Our Christian values are rapidly being trampled under foot. And why is that? Well, it's largely because we have been disengaged. We have not been involved in standing up and making our voices heard and making our votes heard but making our Christian values relevant in our communities, in our states and our nation. And as a result, we are watching those very principles upon which our nation was founded being trampled right before our eyes. And so we must be engaged in this thing. And without that, we will suffer the consequence. Listen, as Christians, we are the problem. We are also the solution. But we are the problem for not being engaged and not standing up. And that engagement stepping up to the plate is the solution that this country needs. That's strong. You know, I remember when Mitt Romney was our presidential candidate for the Republican Party. And I remember the stat that something like 7.6 million Christians didn't vote because they didn't appreciate his religious affiliation. Now, how short-sighted and how narrow is that? Because, you know, and I'm not saying he should have been here or that. I'm not endorsing that. I'm just saying we have to be engaged. And in politics, you work with people that you wouldn't necessarily put on the stage of when you were a pastor, you know, and hand them a microphone. But it's called mutual respect. And it's called the appreciation of human dignity. And that's who we are as Christians. Otherwise, Paul wouldn't have written the book of Romans. He would have just said, yeah, you guys are messed up. I got to go. I'm going to colossus. I'm sure he did. I'm sure he did. Well, Congressman, hi. Thank you so much. We pray that you're raising peace on you and your wife and your family, your children, and your grandchildren. And I pray because of what you've done and who you are and what you're doing that your grandchildren and my grandchildren will grow up in a nation in the United States that is a greater nation in the years ahead than it's been in the past. Thank you so much. God bless you and everyone listening. We're in this thing together. And we got to we got to live together, live out loud in the public square for our faith and keep the torch ablaze. Thank you for having me. Amen. Man, serving leadership, that is a big deal. And the fact that he took the time to be on our show, even when he has his own show, the Jody Heist Show. Did you know how that? Yeah. Oh, yeah. We talked about those things. We talked about a number of things before and after that conversation. He took a lot of time with us. Yeah. It was really remarkable. You know, Congress people, I don't think people realize how hard they worked. Oh, yeah. You know, they've got meetings. You were in Washington. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And somebody would say, well, let's get together. Okay, well, let's meet what 630 tomorrow morning looked like for you, right? It'd be like, and you would be like, I'm on my 10th cup of coffee. But so they, you know, and then they've got events every evening. There's stuff they have to go to. You know, that's why Kenny Marchant, who's my congressman here in the Fort Worth area. That's why I respect him so deeply. He works extremely hard, and yet he flies home almost every weekend to help take care of a special needs son that he and his wife have here in Arlington and Fort Worth area. He's a remarkable man and not real well-known, just like a Jody Heiss. A lot of people wouldn't have heard his name. Yeah. But there's people like that men and women who are really literally giving their lives. You know, day and night working towards others good and well-being. Yes. I think those are the people we need to celebrate. Too often the news celebrates that people are just shout or have stupid ideas. Yeah. And people don't understand the sacrifice that Jody has given to be up there. You know, he didn't have to leave ministry. But he said, I'm not leaving ministry. I'm going to take ministry where it needs to be. Yeah. I love the fact that on his bio, it doesn't say occupation congressman. It says occupation ministry. Exactly. Yeah. That's pretty cool. Exactly. And that's what he lives out on Capitol Hill every single day he's there. Yeah. You know, hey, if you want to get a hold of us, you can get a hold of just right to us at Brave Men. You can write to Paul at cmn.man. Paul at cmn.men. And then as you mentioned at the mid break, we've got all kinds of resources, things to mentor men. I just got a text from a friend of ours, Sam Asteller up in Freedom Life Church in Pennsylvania. And he sent me a photo of their group, their men's group meeting on a Monday night watching our video from YouTube. Amazing. So on the YouTube, we have the video. It's first we had strong men and tough times. Yep. Now we have never quit the whole things on there. And so you've got the entire never quit 12-part series, strong men and tough times 12-part series, 30 minutes each part. So you can use that, watch that, make it part. So what they're doing is they're using this as a men's group. They started three weeks ago with 70 men. Now they've got almost 100 men. That's amazing. That's awesome. That's amazing. And so they do a little music. They do a testimony. And then they watch my video teaching that Monday night men. And you can find that on YouTube at Monday night men. And that's three words Monday night men or type in Christian men's network. All one word. Yes. Right. Yes. And you'll go right to our YouTube channel. Yes. And we've got all kinds of resources on YouTube channel. And also we want people to subscribe. Subscribe. Share it. Yes. So like the videos. Yes. So Brave Man podcast. Uh, if they click share it. Yep. It's a good thing. If they click subscribe, it's a good thing. Yes. And if you write it a review, it's a great thing. Well, if it's a good review, yeah, I sure like Chris because who's that Paul guy? I know guys, I like my job. Don't say that. Who's that Paul guy? Like when I see that, dude, you're fired again, Chris. Hey, great stuff, man. I thank you for introducing me to Congressman Heisen. Thank you to Pastor Jim Garlo. Yes. With well versus. Well, first minute. Took you to Washington DC. Yes. Where you ended up meeting men like and women like Jody Heisen. Yes. Who's who's the one at the United Nations? Oh, you're talking about um, Ambassador Michael Mener. Yeah. Okay. So all these different people that you've met. Yes. And uh, absolutely fantastic. Yes. And so thank you to Dr. Jim Garlo. Yes. He's our board of Christmas network and his wife Rosemary. And um, you know, what they do with well versus. Yeah. We didn't really get into that with uh, Congressman Heisen, but that's been a huge impact on his life. Yes. And I mean, one of the greatest things that Pastor Garlo has ever taught me is the value of relationships. Yeah. Just because you meet somebody once doesn't mean it's done. You know, you make the decision to continue to do life with that person or not. And that was one of the amazing things of every opportunity that Pastor Garlo has ever given me. He's taught me. Hey, we're in this for the long call. The definition of covenant. He's taught me. Yeah. So that's why every time I fire you, you call him. Yes. He says no, you ought to just go ahead and stay with him. Yes. And then I text you and say, are you sure you want me? Are you sure? I don't know. Yeah. You're awesome, Chris. And uh, sure appreciate everybody to listen to Brave Men. Uh, share it with somebody else. Yes. I know conversations like this really enlarge our life. They, uh, they expand us and make us better men as we go through life. Thank you for being on Brave Men today with us and being with Congressman Jody Heiss. Our prayer for you today is that God will give you favor. Keep you deep within the grip of his grace and prosper you and everything your hands touch. Hey, for Paul and Chris and everybody with the Christian men's network, God bless. You just experienced Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian men's network. Connect with Paul at cmd.man or write to him at Paul at cmd.man.