BraveMen S3E44: Blaine Bartel - The Rise, Fall and Resurrection of an Evangelical Icon

I got a hold of the book, Death by a Thousand Lies, by Blaine Bartell. It intrigued me because I knew the story of Blaine Bartell. I didn't know what had happened, why he left ministry, why all of a sudden he was gone from a major church here in Dallas. All I knew is that he was something had happened, and then I got the book and it stunned me. It was so open, it was so clear what happened to him in his use of pornography and how it bound up his life. I'm here with Chris Shields, a producer of Brave Men, and Chris, this thing, what I did is I DMed him. So I direct message to him and I said, hey, I'd love to get in touch. I mean, I'm reading this book and I'm just shocked at the stuff this man went through. He was famous. He was on television, he had this huge church, he was speaking all these major conferences and bam. It's crazy. It all came crashing down, came totally crashing down on him, and then to find out what had happened and that he's been remarried in all this, this story is one of the most compelling stories I've ever heard of my life in the book. I would suggest this book to everybody, Death by a Thousand Lies, and a pretty amazing story. I mean, it is an amazing story and it just, for me, provokes the reality of staying focused and keeping the right people around you, because accountability is a huge thing. Yeah, I think accountability is huge. That's why we do Christmas and I work brotherhood. Exactly. It has to do with, we do better when we're in community. Exactly. We live better. Jesus was always, I mean, when you look at the life of Christ, he got away times to pray by himself, but most of the time you see him with guys with a band of brothers. And the thing you're saying that makes me just think of the reality, do you think Jesus was in an identity crisis when he actually talked to Peter asking him, who do you say I am? Who do you say? I think it's a leading question. And that leading question was why? Because when you have brothers, they remind you who you are and when you're insecure, you have to tell yourself who you are, but when you're secure, they're telling you and reminding you, hey, bro, don't forget you're the righteousness of God in him. Yeah. Now, the issue for Blaine is he had men around him who, if you will, kind of propped him up. Yeah. Because he was famous. But there's a balance, you know, you're right. There has to be a balance in, I mean, even when you look at the story of Jesus, Jesus had 12, then he had three. You know, three in the 12 had different responsibilities for Jesus. And I think that that's a big deal when it comes to us, you know, we have to, yes, I have my inner circle, but then I also have my outer circle. Yeah. Then he had Lazarus. Exactly. It was outside that circle because he had to have somebody to hang out with. Well, this story today of Blaine Bartel, it sounds like a movie. It sounds like a novel that you would read, but a real man lived this today on Brave Men Blaine Bartel, the rise, fall, and resurrection of an evangelical icon. It's Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole, wisdom and courage for the journey. And talking with Blaine Bartel and Blaine Bartel, I would have to say in reading your book Death by a Thousand Lies, sat on my back porch, I started to read it. And I thought, well, I'll read a couple chapters and then I'll put it down and I couldn't put it down. And in fact, it's an inspirational book, it's rugged, it's brutal, it is stunning, it is authentic and it is redemptive. And I'm talking to Blaine Bartel. And after that, I remember I tried to find your number when we finally connected. And I think might have been the first thing I told you, man, I said, how did you write a book like this? But it came out of your life because that's what the book was. And I'd say all those things to strive with happening in your life. Your Facebook says, don't settle for recovery when Jesus is handing out resurrections. And I guess that's become really the theme of your life as a Blaine. It really has, because I, Paul, first of all, so good to be with you, man, you're a rock star. I love you, of course, love your father and it's really an honor to have a conversation with you today. But yeah, I died 10 years ago on every level and including almost physically, I mean, I tried to take my life, but I lost my marriage. I lost my children, my three boys for a number of years. We went bankrupt or I went bankrupt. Wow. Of course, lost ministry reputation and all of my own doing. It was all self-inflicted, 23 years of hiding a secret world of pornography and sexual lust and vice and eventually, you know, acting outside of my marriage in so many different ways. Wow. Let me set the stage. Let's set the stage. Yeah. Yeah. See, because what was the, what was the Saturday night show? What was the TV show called? Uh, yeah. It was fire by night. Fire by night. That fire by night, man. That was like, it was like the right version of Saturday Night Live, but no, here's the deal, man. And in our world and with my kids and stuff, who was that show on? Who was that? It started like Paul 86 and went through about 93. Okay. But it was cutting edge. And then it only went to 93 because I think they probably kept rearing shows for 10 years. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Yeah. All the Christian networks aired them forever. Yeah. Exactly. Because the only youth program is most of the head. But you had this amazing youth programming that was on. And this is, and you became like the fire by night guy. Yeah. And that came out of a youth ministry that you did. What was it? Give us the name of that. I know what it is. Yeah. Yeah. And then your life did up a 720 or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A 1080 right into a fence post. Yeah. So you had the 180 youth thing. And then. And this is with church on the move. Yeah. Pastor Willie George, who had a gospel bill. When my kids were growing up in the 80s, gospel bill was like a big thing. There was a camp out of that. Yeah. Big camp. Drag off. USA. My kids wanted to it, man. Yeah. This deal was, you know, you talk about ZZ top. We bad. We nationwide. You guys were that. Right. Yeah. Without the hair for sure. Yeah. A little Texas man. So. This is. And you're a Canadian. Mm-hmm. All right. So you're Canadian by. First. How are you? Tulsa. Yeah. I've lived in the States longer than I lived in Canada. But I'm actually still a Canadian. Okay. But you can't go home right now because of the border. No. They won't let me. So. So the framing of this thing is what's fascinating to me. And what. What you just described about the whole tip over and the stuff that happened. Is because you can't get. More famous. In the Christian world. Right. Right. And you had crossover stuff going on. People in Nashville talking to you about TV shows and. Yeah. Going on national networks. And I mean, this stuff's flying. And then you move the Dallas. And plant a church that becomes one of the fastest growing churches. In the Western hemisphere. And then this stuff just absolutely that. How breaks loose man. That's. That breaks loose because it had been going on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know. It started when I was really young, Paul. I was. I've been in the ministry for about three years. Like you said, firemenided exploded. You know, when you get on television, I don't care who you are. And it's national. However good you are at it. Just the fact that you, like you said, you become famous. I was speaking all over the place and. Doing events and all these things. And of course, you know, I'm 26, 27, 28 years old. And it's all going to my brain. And I guess what where do you grow up? What city in Canada? Calgary, Alberta. Oh, so you go from the Wild West. Yeah. Calgary. I mean, because I know Calgary. I love. Well, it's a spectacular city. But you go from the Wild West to being the big guy in the States. Yeah. And I just. You know, I really what I remember how it started. I just wore myself out. I was gone all the time every weekend, taking every. Engagement because engagements meant more influence and, you know, more places to go and more income and. And then I'd come back. And I'd just be working and, you know, making more television and writing and doing all the things. And I finally, I just was sapped Paul. I lost, you know, my energy and lost my devotion. My passion that I began with. And I remember sitting in a hotel room one night. And bro, I've never looked at porn in my life. I mean, my dad didn't have it. My friends didn't have it. It just was not a thing in my world. I remember looking at the television in this hotel room and it had this white box. And I knew what it was. It was an adult movie box. This is pre-internet. Yeah, yeah. And I was, you know, I'd seen a hundred of them in hotel rooms. But for whatever reason that night, all my defenses were gone. I, I had lost the ability to resist anymore out of this exhaustion. And you want exhaustion sets in. There's a little bit of entitlement that comes along. Like you deserve a break. And so, you know, we mentioned this on our Monday night man's deal. We are master negotiators with ourselves. Yes. Because we can talk ourselves into anything. And we're also the most skilled liars. Yeah. To ourselves. We are, man. Because we can lie to ourselves. And then we say, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah. And I, and I did, I mean, I lied to myself after. Wow. Because I, I watched for 10 minutes. Got done, turned it off, felt all this shame. Because I've never done this ever in my life. I felt like I was going to hell. I felt like I was just so guilty. And I, I told myself I wouldn't do it again. But I made the worst mistake of my life that night. And that I got dressed, went down to the front desk. And I told the clerk that I needed to pay for my movie. And the reason I did is because I didn't want my host, which was a church, to find out what I'd watch. So it was the beginning of a cover up that would last 23 years. And I remember saying, Paul, I'm never going to do this again. I, you know, I repented. I cried. I had tears. I was sincere. I hated myself. And I didn't do it for six months. And then it, you know, went through that cycle again. And this time it was three months. And then it was a month until, you know, within a year or two, I was an absolute addict. I was enslaved to this. So it's like crack cocaine for the brain. It was, well, that was just, you know, the dopamine effect. And the, that was the same effect as a, as a drug high. And, uh, and so yeah. And the thing is, it's accessible and has become more accessible now. And, and if you will, it's a little more easily hidden than if you're on meth. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I didn't lose any weight. My teeth didn't fall out. And I wasn't stumbling around, right? Right. And, and that's why I love the title of your book because it's. Death by a thousand lives because it's like a death by a thousand cuts. It's like these little razor blade cuts that continued. And, and you don't think anything about it until all of a sudden you realize, man, I am, I'm bleeding to death. Well, it just gets deeper too, Paul. You know, I think it's somewhere in Proverbs. Because lots of us never satisfied the eyes of man are never satisfied. And hell is never full. Yeah. Describing hell there is not necessarily what we would think of. I don't think in terms of eternity, but rather destruction is never full enough. Well, keep moving towards more and more destruction. And so of course it didn't end with porn with me. It started there, but it wasn't long before, you know, lust wanted more, lust wanted to touch something, lust didn't want to look at a picture or a photo. Yeah. So you started acting out. Yeah. Well, you know. So now, yeah, you got kids. Yeah. You guys plan to church in Frisco. Yeah. We're in Frisco by this point, North Dallas planning is North Dallas. And our boys are all in their 20s or early 20s at this point. And churches blowing up, but I'm worse than I've ever been by this time. I'm just completely out of control. And by this time, honestly, I've given up on ever getting free. I mean, I tried so I really it was in other words, at this point, you're like, yeah, whatever, it's just the way I am. I was just waiting for disaster. I was just waiting for exposure or death. Because I encountered some really dangerous people and dangerous places. I was suicidal. I was thinking about leaving the country and like just exiting. And no one knows where I am just to. I mean, I was just, my, my head was, was just going crazy. And so it was just a matter of time. I knew, I knew the end was coming. You know, it's now your, your podcast is called rethink this. And you can find Blaine at Blaine B-L-A-I-N-E. Is that Canadian spelling? It's a combination of my dad and my mom Blake and Elaine equals Blaine. Well, I was just wondering when you went to get the website Blaine Bartel.com, you probably didn't have a whole bunch of other guys trying to buy it. No, it was like $1.99. But Blaine Bartel B-A-R-T-E-L.com, Blaine Bartel.com. You got incredible resources there for guys dealing with what you're talking about. And you get a podcast called rethink this. And then you've got the Facebook, you're on Facebook and you're active on it. And I love your description, resurrected storyteller, primitive believer. Yes, I don't know if that means, I don't know if that means you don't know how to spell. Or it's just, I guess it just means authentic, you know, New Testament Christianity, right? Well, primitive because what saved me Paul in the end after my, after my crisis and my, my death was really going back and digging deep into the early church. So when I talk about being primitive, I talk about rediscovering the genuine article of like who Jesus was in the Gospels, but also how his followers followed him in the first, second, third centuries. And it was mind blowing for me to examine Christianity through a lens where there was no professional ties to it. Because there were always professional ties in my life. There was money attached to it, there was position, there was employment. And I just love capturing Christianity without all of those strings attached. And I fell in love with Jesus again, and I fell in love with this church again, which was amazing. That's incredible. And I think that, you know, that's what comes out in the book is that authenticity that you came to. And so we can get so caught up in our ministry that our ministry can become our mistress. Yes. We can, we can become so caught up in position that we lose the connection. Oh, so right, man. It's so easy. You know, it happens a lot of guys and people talk about it all the time. And yet we still do it because we all say we, meaning us, it would never made a mistake. It's obviously we know you've made a mistake. You wrote about it. Yeah. And we who have never made a mistake. We look at that and go, yeah, you know, that's him, but dude, I'm, I'm okay. This will never happen to me. Man, I'm telling you right there is right there is an issue. Hey, so tell me, because I want to get into some of the resurrection, which is remarkable. You're leading your coaching guys on sexual health. You're coaching couples, you're coaching churches. How to minister to people who are in trouble dealing with sexual dysfunction. You're, you're speaking, you're doing a ton of stuff online. And so you're very accessible and you're really honest. It's kind of like once you put it all in a book and there's nothing to hide anymore, is there? No, and there was a reason for that. You know, I kind of look at my life as a modern day, present day, proverb seven story. So, proverb seven is just an ugly story about a young man who gets caught in sexual lust with a woman. And it ends by saying, you know, she will take him to the grave. And that's what really happened to me. I felt, you know, I don't think every guy needs to be as obviously as public as I've been with my lesson and my, you know, my, my, my pain. But it definitely gets the attention of man when I speak to guys, when I do into dance and when I coach, they know that I know what I'm talking about. They know that I know that I've been there. Now, you know, and thank you for taking a pain of that because you're right. You're not suggesting that everybody go public with stuff that's happened. Yeah, that's an amazing proverb because it's like the, if I remember, it's the bird flying into the snare having seen it. Yeah, right. And it's like going and walking into a trap, having seen the trap and you still walk in anyway. So this thing tips over, tell me about that moment because this, this, this was the one where you were telling this in the book. Sitting in my back course, like I said, I started reading it on a Saturday afternoon. And Saturday night, I'm still sitting there reading this thing. And hitting this part about how there's a little earlier actually in the book, but. Tell us how it all tipped over. I know the story, but yeah. Well, I was covered. I was out, you know, one night with one of my many, you know, women that I had online. And they were, I was never the affair guy. I wasn't looking to leave my marriage. I wasn't looking to find a new woman. It was just lost. It was just like one encounter after another encounter. And so I'm with one of these people and I made a huge mistake, which I never did in my, in my world, in my rules, if you will. And I saw her more than once. And she was smarter than I thought. Why is your than I thought she wasn't an escort. She was just a person I met online. I used my fake name and all of that. And she figured out who I was. She was pretty crafty. She somehow got well, she got a whole of my identification, very, very secretly subtly. And went back to her house and googled me and she came out and said, I cannot believe you. I cannot believe how you've lied to me. I can't believe who you really are. And she gave me an ultimatum. She said, either you go and disclose everything and tell your family and your church and the people in your world, or I will go public with this. And that was in Dallas, Texas. So the gig was up, man. It was over. I knew it. It was over. My heart fell, you know, to the floor. And I went to my best friend, told him everything. His name is Ron loose. And Ron walked me through disclosure and confession with my wife and my kids and my family. And then he showed up at church at Sunday, which was Easter Sunday, 2010. He read my resignation letter, Easter Sunday, on Easter Sunday, bro. What can you believe that? You know, I mean, the day that we should be celebrating resurrection, yeah. I was dying. My family was dying and our church felt like death and hit them square in the eye. So it was an ugly, ugly day, ugly week in my family. My kids were devastated. When I told my family, obviously, my wife was just broken. And like she was just like on the floor and just pain and tears. My oldest son. It was 23 or 24 of the time. Just got out of his chair, looked at me and said, F you and ran out the door. I mean, it was, it was the ugliest moment in my life. And it was his ugliest ugly can get. Yeah, I mean, my greatest regret was I wish I could have encountered all the pain because I deserved it all. But the fact that innocent people like my family, my wife, my children, and even friends and people in our church community, that they had to suffer through my own decisions is what I regret the most. Hey, this is Chris. Let me take a moment right in the middle of this great conversation to remind you how to get in touch with Paul and Christian men's network and the Global Fatherhood Initiative. You can find all the resources for mentoring and fatherhood at cmin.min. That's cmin.min. Also, you can write to Paul at poll at cmin.min. That's poll at cmin.min. We have tremendous resources for churches with special discounts for groups on that website. Everything a church needs from A to Z to mentor and disciple men of all ages and backgrounds. Now let's get back to this awesome interview between Paul and Blaine Barton. And Ron, Ron and Katie, loose, teen mania, doing incredible work cross-nation. That would have been, without, see, 2010, was that about the same time that Hannah was in the plane crash? It was just after that that she had that crash, yeah. Yeah. So, man, they're walking, so Ron walked you through that and then his wife, his daughter, Hannah is the sole survivor in a plane crash, tragically took some people's lives. And what a friend. Bro, Ron, that's a brother, man. That's brotherhood. Yeah, we met in 1986 and grew up in ministry together. But I'm going to tell you that guy, you know, it's been 10 years now since that crisis. And there hasn't been a month go by that he hasn't reached out to me. And early on, it was every, every day. And then yeah, he's just been an amazing friend and I needed that. So, that's brotherhood, man. That's what it's about right there. And brotherhood's about showing up and brotherhood isn't always about having all the answers. Sometimes we think that's what we have to have. But it is walking with a friend, regardless of what's happened. Right? I mean, he could have said, hey, if I do this, it may not look good for me. You know, with churches that we're going to and that kind of stuff. Well, when he was busy, I mean, he had a multi-million dollar ministry with huge ministry, hundreds of people in the road. Hundreds of staff and it was never a time he didn't take a call, you know, never a time that he didn't call when I needed him. And yeah, and you know, it wasn't just that he was encouraging to me. And he didn't have all the answers. I mean, the wisest thing he ever did was send me to some good rehab and some good counseling. I remember many times me coming to him saying, Ron, I'm ready. You know, I'm ready to be back like six months later. Can I get, you know, back in ministry? Because I'd submitted my life to him and two other men. And I remember him just saying, well, I love you, man. And you know, one day you're going to be ready. But you're not yet. It's not now. You're such a typical guy. We all are. You know, it's like, hey, I'm good. Yeah, we don't fall down. Get back up. Okay, got that done. I'm good. Let's go do this thing because we want to get to work because that's what's built into us. What happened with your marriage and your children? Well, Kathy, my wife is a hero of the story because she single handedly held our family together. And she fought with everything in her being to try to try to resurrect, you know, trust in our marriage and hope in our marriage. And after a year, I mean, I've just literally every week counseling and doing work together. She just couldn't do it. You have to understand, Paul, there were, you know, there were hundreds and hundreds of disclosures that I had to make and counseling with her full disclosure of every place I've been everything I've done. And it broke her. She passed out three times during disclosure to a few days. So, you know, she was just so hurt and so betrayed. And as hard as we tried, she just could never get back to a place of trust and hopefulness. And so we went through, I guess what I could call the most loving divorce that I've ever seen. I mean, we didn't fight. It wasn't ugly. We didn't have attorneys. I mean, you know, we just, we just knew we couldn't make it or she knew that she couldn't trust me. And by God's grace, she didn't turn my boys against me. My boys did take a while to warm up to me. I think so. I mean, it's been a couple of years, you know, of watching to see if their dad was actually going to change. But she never, she never put them in a place where they felt like they had to be on her side and not mine. And today, Kathy and I are beautiful friends. She's pretty much every, you know, like lately, every week. Well, yeah, they're everything going on with God and all this sort of stuff. She's a lot. And so, you know, Laurie and I reach out to her a lot. We do family things together all the time. I've seen healings like that. It's, it is rare, but it is real. And it's possible. And I just want to say that to everybody listening. And you and Laurie have been married now six years. Yes, six years. It's been, it's been amazing. It's a, it's amazing. She agreed to marry me because I remember two months into our courtship in Tulsa here. I didn't have a clue who I was. I mean, she wasn't, she didn't know the background. No, she was a Christian, but she was a Methodist Baptist Christian. She wasn't in my kind of hostile world. So, so about two months in, I remember we were sitting across each other from dinner and I said, Hey, Laurie, have you ever Googled me and she just looked at me and said, why would I want to Google you? I said, you might want to Google. You might, you might want to take a chance here. Oh my gosh, that, that took some cajonis right there, Blaine. Oh my gosh. I mean, to say to girl, hey, you might want to, you might want to Google me. I'm like a, I'm like a mass killer. Yeah. So, that night she did and there was like all these, you know, Dallas Morning News, Charisma Magazine, all these online articles about my, my fall and my failure and my betrayal. Okay. What happened next? What happened next? Well, we went out again the next night and she had a lot of questions. Yeah. It was like, oh my gosh, what else have you done? And who are you? And so by this time it had been, I think about five years, four or five years since my disclosure. And I don't know for whatever reason, I remember her just looking at me that, that day when we had that talk after and she just said, you just don't appear to be that man anymore. I don't know who that was. And she said, now I'm going to watch you really close. I'm going to keep my eye on you. And I want to know who your friends are. And I'll be, by the way, I'll be tracking your phone. Yeah. Yeah. So we, you know, we courted for a year, you know, another, that's really smart. You know, really good period of time. And we got to know each other, each other's families. And I, I just got to tell you that she is the most amazing, loving, merciful, gracious person in my world outside of my parents and my parents. Yeah. That's, that's fantastic. Man, that is really awesome. And so now you've got this ministry, you coach guys, you help guys get the sexual purity, relational health, marriages, the whole thing. I mean, it's incredible. Blaine Bartell dot com B L I N E B A R T E L Blaine Bartell dot com. That's an interesting story about your Blake and Elaine. Yeah. You know, because it's funny, because I, because I can remember what I mean, I remember being, you know, having a background of media and marketing and all this stuff. And I had a company back then that I remember watching the Saturday night thing and the fire by night and all that stuff. And, and then I, I remember thinking is Blaine a stage name? Did he? Is that, you know, did he come from an auction ball? Well, BB BB Blaine Bartell. Yeah, is this, is this a thing that becomes like a logo? Is that what that is? And so you get this great ministry and resurrection with it. But Cali, man, dude, you went through hell. In order to be help, in order to help us. And that's what death by a thousand lives does. And I know you're writing some other things. I hope we were able to see some of these books in the near future. And I'd love to have you, you know, come and speak it at some of our conferences and that kind of stuff. Dude, what you went through is really every guy. Listen, and you know this, but let me just share it with our guys. Every man that allows pornography to capture your attention and then begin to control your heart will eventually control the destiny of your life. Because whatever's in your heart ends up being, being what you do with your hands. And I can't tell you how many guys I've talked to who said I just thought it was a private thing. I can't, I don't know how I got here. I don't know what happened. I don't care if I've met him at a jail or he's telling me about the affair that you just had. And he's almost every single guy bling goes, I have no idea how I got here. Well, let's go back to where this started, you know, and so often it comes back to being grabbed a hold of by pornography, the issue of pornography isn't just the sin of that moment. Which you could say, father, forgive me. And you know, first of all, 1910, you're forgiven. But it's really the stuff we hold on to and the shame, it clouds your thinking, it literally changes the way the texture of your brain. Dopamine and some of the other chemicals that are secreted, you know, particularly when guys are watching porn and masturbating, there's all this stuff that happens that creates templates that become our life. Yeah. So the issue of porn isn't that moment of watching something you just go, I feel dirty. Now it's, it's what, what's what happens later, the fact that you've actually cut off relationship with your wife, because all relationships spirit to spirit. Well, you know, that's the way we approach our coaching as well as it's not an issue of right and wrong as much as it is an issue of just developing a very unhealthy soul. You know, one of the most, well, I read the other day, I think it was the American lawyers association said porn has now become the number one reason for divorce in America. And the reason for that is really more than money. Yeah. And it's because it's so separates a husband and a wife because there is no way that a woman, a wife and a marriage can possibly live up to what a man's watching in the porn world. And so it begins to separate she no longer is attractive to him sexually because he's got this whole other world. And of course it's a fake world and it's not a real world, but it just diminishes the sexuality. And like you said, there's a spirit and a spiritual tie sexually with a husband and wife who that gets broken and pretty soon the entire relationship gets broken. And then the other thing is, you know, I mean, I the people I coach NBA players, college coaches, pastors, you would know their names, business guys that are CEOs. These are very, very a lot for them, very successful people. Yeah. And they have got themselves into a place where porn has taken them down a road that is about to take not just their marriage, not just their family, but their career because of where it has led them. And so it just is such an awful vice. It just steals it destroys it. And and I think the worst thing for me is was the shame because I knew it was killing me. I knew it was going to kill my family. And I remember looking in the mirror every day and saying, I hate you. I hate it. And that shame just cycles us down into depression and despair. And for a lot of people suicide. I mean, I tried to take my life twice. So, did you really? You know, in fact, you wrote that somewhere. You said you actually had had you put it like a really robust attempt. Yeah, I went to you were just playing around or crying for help. You were like, this is it. I ran out in the middle of traffic in front of our church, which was a three lane highway and just started walking towards traffic. And I mean, trucks and cars are screeching and moving all over trying to miss me. And I was just saying, God, take me. And set, I think five or six police cruisers pulled up with guns out and thought I was, you know, well, I was. I was crazy at the time, but. And that's when they sent me to sent me to rehab. But yeah, it is just it's an awful, it's an awful, awful thing. And I would just tell men that maybe watching this or leaders and maybe watching this. You know, the best thing that ever happened in my life was disclosure, but it didn't have to happen the way it did. I didn't have to get caught. I could have disclosed myself, you know, and that's why I call my book. Death by a thousand lines. My death wasn't because of my sin as much as it was my lying and my covering up of the sin. You know, Jesus knows we send Jesus knows we don't hit the mark. What we've got to do is move into this confessional relationship with a brother with a person, maybe with a ministry that can help us get well and get home. And you can stop it right now just by really by confession with a brother. I mean, that's. I can't tell you how many guys that have come to me and just said, okay, here's where I'm at. And then I go, okay, where do you want to be? I want to be healed. Okay, then let's do this. Yeah, and I've seen I've just seen and you've seen the same thing. I've just seen so many guys whose lives were radically turned around just because of the courage really literally the courage of just one moment to call me or call you or to stand in front of you in a meeting, say, can I talk you for a second? Bam, he says he says it. And speaks for the first time to hear it himself. And then all it had bam, there it is. The path has started. Absolutely, bro. That's fantastic. And you've seen guys healed of this. You've seen marriages healed. And again, the book is a death by a thousand lives, Blaine Bartel. But the thing is to everybody watching or listening right now, don't write your own book on this. Yes, it's already been written, bro. We don't need another one. If you allow me, we're premiering right now, our documentary. And I didn't do this documentary. Another, another television company approached me about oh, nine months ago and asked to do a documentary on my story. It is just released this week. It's on our YouTube channel. So if you want to, if you don't, if you don't like reading, you'd rather not read the book and you'd like to actually watch the story. I'm interviewed. My son is interviewed my oldest son. And it's pretty, it's pretty powerful. So it's it's on my YouTube channel, which you can find just look up Blaine B TV, Blaine B TV. And it's about a, it's a four-part documentary. I think it goes about 45 minutes. Wow. Yeah, I can't wait to see it, man. Is it on your website now? It's coming to your website. We're going to put a link on our website. Yeah. But yeah, at the time you're listening to this, a link. Fantastic, man. What's the name of the documentary? It's the same name or same name they asked if they could use the title of my book. So I said, yeah, if you want to, it is a, seriously, the first time I can you remember where I saw it, but when I saw the title, I went, whoa. And then when I actually just so you know, I actually paid retail and bought a copy. It wasn't like some swag that did some guy sent me. Or that, or that your PR guy sent or whatever. This is real stuff, man. Really deeply impacted me. And I remember of finding your phone number through a friend. In fact, it might have been through Ron. And in calling you and you were so gracious that you spent an hour on the phone with me the first time I called you in. And I just, man, I can't tell you how much I appreciate the your willingness to be not just write the book, but then do this, do the work. You know, to help other guys because this is a, this is like a crashing wave. This is like a tsunami. And we don't need just one or two or three guys. We need 30 or 40 or 50 or 500 that are not just willing, but equipped. You know, and so we can learn from you, learn by reading your stuff, see the documentary. And then some of us need to just when the Lord speaks to us and says, okay, that's the thing you need to head. And we just need to do it. You know, it may not put you on the biggest stages in the world, but what it will do is change the lives of thousands of people. Yeah, beautiful. And that's what we're about because the whole popularity crap and all that sort of stuff. And you were in it. You were famous. You had eight by 10 glasses. You know, people who walked around in our be going, have you seen this? Yeah, I'm going to go get one for you right now. You love this. I'll be right here. Okay, check this out. I still got this as a, I'm a mentor of my former wife. Oh, come on, man. Hold up a little closer. Hold up a little closer. Do that's unbelievable, man. I'm catching up the bottom fairly well now in Christian TV host. And that was, that was considered cutting edge PR back in the late 80s, bro. I've got some photos like that where we got all our hands, our hands across when we're in suits. Yeah, across. And we're looking all bad. Yeah, we've been advertising agency. Yeah, we produced the NRB stuff for a number of years. So I know. Well, it's hilarious that you actually have that, man. Yeah, I just, you know, I just held on to it. I thought, you know, I'm going to remind myself where I never want to go again. It's my old. Well, here's a deal. If we get, if we're doing stuff and the Lord blesses it and we get well known in Europe, Francis Chan or whatever and your book gets known. It's not that there's, we're not demeaning that. What we're saying is there's a whole stream of our lives in which we desire to be popular and desire prestige and desire position. And that lustful thing for that can cause us to act out in terms of trying to put ourselves with the right people, being the right selfies, being the right photos. You know, to put it on Instagram and all that. And it's the attitude of our heart. If God blesses you and, you know, like Francis has just moved to Hong Kong. And we know hundreds of guys that the Lord's blessed and put in positions of, you know, like Pastor Willie George that you were with for years. And, and, you know, Steven Fertig and guys like that. You can't just basically say, okay, this is because this and this. There are times God just kisses stuff and there's no other way to explain it. And it's the attitude of our heart blame. It's how we take this in and position ourselves before Christ. And again, I come back to what your Facebook. Headline says, don't sell for recovery when Jesus is handing out. Resurrections. I guess fantastic, man. And we just pray everything you're doing with Blaine Bartell Ministries and the books and the materials and the new documentary. Man, we pray every place you put your feet becomes holy ground. Everything your hands touch will prosper. And the God will keep you and Laurie and your family deep within the grip of his grace and favor in Jesus name. Amen. Thank you so much. Appreciate your hanging out with us. All right. That was powerful. Yeah, crazy, huh? Yeah. Just how. Resurrections. It's amazing. Yeah. It just shows how God is a restoreer. Yeah. No question, man. It restoreer, but different. I mean, you know, it's kind of like, okay, he's restored, remarried, doing really well. I don't know. What would happen if he had gotten... What would happen if you know, because like he's 19, 20 years old, whatever it was, when he's in the hotel and you see his porn. What if he had had somebody like you talked about right and start? Yeah. What if he had been able to sit down and go, hey, bro. I'm messed up over this thing. Yeah. But I mean, God does everything so intentionally and perfect. So I mean, would he be the man that... Think about all the lies he's rescuing them. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's true. So it's basically here's what I see as beauty out of ashes. Exactly. And so when the Bible says that all things work together for them to love God and walk according to their purpose in God. You know, all things work together for good. I don't think all things are good. Yeah. They work together for good. Yes, and that's a big difference that we don't often talk about. All things work together for good. Yes, but it has to start, but that's why I love what your dad always says. He says, if it's a negative, you know the story's not over. Yeah. Because God always ends on a positive. And I think that's the reality that we have to base our life's off of. Okay, we might be going through hell right now. But guess what? The sun's going to come out and heaven is going to manifest the kingdom of God will be established. Yeah, you know what you just said is something because it's ingrained in you. Because you've gone through the Christmas network materials. Exactly. And I think that's why with our Christmas network YouTube channel. We've got strong men on tough times in there. We've got working on Never Quit as we do this podcast. We've got Never Quit getting ready to launch. Those studies going through those materials will imprint you with something that brings you hope and reality. And if you will, changes your ability to make correct decisions. Exactly. Yeah, wisdom. And learning the process of things. Because I think oftentimes especially with somebody being a millennial in my generation or even younger. We look for microwave. Microwave progression. You know what I mean? And we don't realize. We want it now. Yeah, it's a wall. It's a marathon, but it's not a sprint. And when you walk, you have people that can journey with you. But when you run, you outrun everybody. That's why I love this story of Blaine Bartell is that he just kept walking it out. He knew he'd messed up. He suffered the consequences. He has a relationship again with his children, grandchildren, all that kind of thing. So what a great story. Yeah, thank you for being with us today on Brave Men. A ministry of the Christian men's network. Again, as Chris said, you can find us at cmn.men. Christian men's network, cmn.men. Don't go to CNN. No, we want the good news. We want the good news. And also cmn summit.com. cmn summit.com. Every year in November, we have a leadership summit here in Dallas. And even with the COVID-19, we're doing it online. It's kind of a hybrid to in person and online. Yeah. And that thing's always tremendous. Some of the greatest speakers in the world. And what I love about this Brave Men podcast is some of the greatest men in the world are on this thing. Yes. Just go down the list of all the guys who have been on. And some of the ones that you and I know are coming up. Yes. Right? Yes. You know, the Warren Ferrells of the world in these amazing guys. Yes. Alan West. Yes. Alan West. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, amazing men like that. And as well as the ones we've already had on, like Michael Phillips and John Eldridge and Demario Davis. Demario Davis. And then Steven Marshall. Benjamin Watson. Benjamin Watson. Jim Marlow. Yeah. And these guys are on the National News hole. Yeah. Dave Barton. Are David Barton? Yeah. So now there you are. Chris Shields, a stud producer, man. Well, they could have happened. I mean, it's just by the grace of God, you know, by the grace of God and a lot of phone calls on the universe. Yeah. Well, one of the things I would just add into that is the reality of how he's guided this though. Yeah. You know, he puts people on my mind. And then I get the opportunity to chase them down. Yeah. Exactly. This bug that I hacked out of. Yes. Persistence is key. Persistence is key. Yeah. Yeah. It sure is. Constancy is the fuel of success. Yes. Hey, thank you for being with us on Brave Man. Thank you, Chris, for producing such a great show. And thank you to Lane Bartell. I would like to recommend his book again to you. We mentioned it a couple of times as we talked. But it's a death by a thousand lies. It's on Amazon. It's on his ministry site. I look forward to talking to you sometime right to me at Paul. It's seaman.men. God bless you. I have a fantastic week. And you know what? Hope is alive. Hope has a name. Hope's name is Jesus. You just experienced Brave Man with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian men's network. Connect with Paul at seaman.men. Or write to him at Paul at seaman.men.