BraveMen S3E43: Luke Zamperini - A Dramatic Story of Hope and Survival

We're about to go into the conversation with Luke Zamperini. I'm sitting with Chris Shields and Chris this story of Louis Zamperini. Did you know this story before we I mean because you're younger, you know, it I mean you would have been 12 when the movie came out or something. Yeah, I mean I knew a little bit about it. Not too much about it Yeah, but after hearing the details that were shared, you know, it's amazing. It's amazing It makes me think of the fact that all true heroes don't wear capes. Wow. Yeah, that's true And oftentimes we lean on these, you know, fabrications from the Avengers and EC and you lean on them. Well, I mean millennials in general. I mean look at our world today. No, that's true We we prop up people as heroes and we look at At personalities as heroes Maybe a guy can run fast or or maybe he arrives at some place of power or position or prestige Or because he's got two million followers exactly on Instagram. Yeah. Come on somebody or Facebook Yeah, and that makes him a hero. I don't think so. No, and we find out the real heroes are guys like this And Louis Zamperini an amazing story we talk and I just so thankful for his son to take the time to talk with us Talk about his dad proud of his dad, but Luke has done an amazing work with this organization Yes, the Louis Zamperini foundation and taking this message of a true hero And using it to inspire young people. This is a great conversation I think this will enlarge all of our lives as we talk to Luke Zamperini It's brave man with Paul Lewis Cole Wisdom encourage for the journey I'm with Luke Zamperini performer executive with the city of Los Angeles But I think for most of us we would know you Luke has the son of Louis Zamperini In the movie unbroken the book unbroken and the amazing story for father's life Which now you are carrying on in a legacy That is touching people all over the world But in a thumbnail give me the story of your father's dramatic life Well, it's truly an amazing story son of Italian immigrants who was a basically a juvenile delinquent as a young man Channel this energy scene to sports at the Be hasted his older brother and the chief of police in Torres, California and the chief of police Yeah We've been chasing them all over town. We suggest he goes into track and field. So He started setting a high school records. He said a high school record from the mile made his way to the 1936 Perlin Olympics competed there. He didn't medal but he was You felt in 1940 would have been his Olympics he came back He went to the University of Southern California where he said a collegiate record from the mile at four minutes eight seconds He was almost the first guy to break the four-minute mile And then of course Woolworth too was was was brewing and so he joined the army air force He was bobbing during the Pacific Uh, and one mission his plane crashed in the ocean and he floated In a rubber life raft with a couple other guys for 47 days they drifted two thousand miles into the Japanese controlled portion of the Pacific Ocean they were picked up by the Japanese Navy And they recognized him because they followed American sports and they wanted to use him for propaganda purposes So they put him in a secret concentration camp And then after the board department declared him dead here in the United States They marched him out and put him on a radio show where they left him right his own His his own message to his parents and he did and then they wanted him to do uh propaganda broadcasts which he refused to do and he spent the last 27 months of the war in a Japanese prison camp being beaten every day by a particularly sadistic guard referred to as the bird and of course he developed PTSD while he was in prison camp It was manifesting himself in these horrendous dreams where he was you know being beaten by the bird and he would Then uh in the dreams he would be you know murder in the guy in his bare hands And so after the board came home the dreams continued his life started to fall apart. He couldn't get back into uh, you know the world-class shape to compete for the next Olympics And I mean he was just spiraling out of control He was stuck meditating with alcohol And finally one day he walked into A tent meeting in downtown Los Angeles with a brand new preacher guy named Billy Graham and He came to faith and immediately knew that he was done drinking and he was done fighting and he had forgiven his prison guards Including the bird and a year later he went on a mission strip back to Japan To find his old guards who do themselves are now prisoners as because they were considered uh war criminals And forgave them face-to-face. He just never he never never found the bird Uh, but uh, but he did forgive his other guards face-to-face and it's just a miraculous story And it just shows what the power of forgiveness is and just the power of christian man's life This is uh, you know, you said it in a short way the the book unbroken And what was the author's name hillbrand? Lorehill and bread Lauren hillbrand That thing drew it out and I would recommend everyone who's listening to this or watching this right now to get that book unbroken Because it does draw it out The fascinating thing though is that he went back on a mission's trip. Yeah Really right after the war right? Yes, well actually the war ended in 45 he came to faith in 1949 That was uh, when the the the uh canvas eagles set up in Los Angeles In 1950 he went back to Japan. That's a man. That's what I have to the war Yeah, it's it yeah, it was the it was still you know the american occupation forces there And you know the prison guards were themselves incarcerated as war criminals and he was able to You know general guards are called for a million bibles in 25,000 missionaries And so my dad joined up in that effort and went back there for that trip and specifically to find those prison guards And for you to give them face to face now uh, what did you went you know, let's go back. He's he's flying He's a he's a navigator bombardier bombardier bombardier And so in that he's focusing on you know, what his job is They're flying and they get shot down over the ocean Well actually he was on a reconnaissance mission looking for it down B-25 when the plane that they were in suddenly had engine failure and they crashed Uh-uh, three three people survived out of a crew of 11 my dad being one of them and the climate board The rubber life raft and that began their Odyssey at sea 47 days. What did he tell you about that? Yeah Well, let's see. These are my bad times stories growing up and so, uh, you know, I would ask him about various Daspegs of it. It was he was somebody who made the best out of every situation Any setback he had in life was an excuse to train And an excuse to use what uh his the skills that he learned as a as an evil scout or read He learned this is school and so They said about you know thinking that they Could be rescued immediately, but they may not be so they my dad started uh a routine of Describing recipes of food how you how you make food as a way to keep his mind sharp and to these they were having virtual meals So they had nothing else to eat They from the 47 days they had All they had to eat was uh was two sharp livers That they and they think they had to kill the sharks themselves And you know got tired of the sharks trying to eat them so they ate the sharks and a couple of albatross And that was it. So his uh And you know when he crashed in the ocean he was uh 5.10 155 pounds When the Japanese fished him out 47 days later. He weighed 66 pounds. Oh my good. So He's the only person you will ever have heard that actually gained weight in a Japanese prison camp Because at the end of the war he was 90 pounds Now now he talked a lot about and you still teach about it in the Zamperini foundation You teach a lot about resilience. Tell me what that means and how did your father Teach that and how do you teach that Luke? Well, okay, so Laura Hillenbrand described him as having a resilient optimism that wouldn't quit so that resilient optimism That wouldn't quit and uh, so He always felt that He could get out of any situation that he was in or my effect my uncle had remarked once that while he was missing at sea He thought well, you know, if he can find a sand bar to stand on and it's got a toothbrush. He'll be okay So he just used all the resources he was at being an eagle scout and Being someone who's spent most of his life living outdoors. I mean even as a young kid. He you know He would sleep outdoors and they had to they had to you go out and find their own foods He'd go on hunting expeditions to get deer or mudhands whatever they can find and so he just was uh He used he just never quit. See essentially This is a guy that had a very defiant nature That's why he was in such a trouble maker as a kid and he was able to to channel that defiance into athletics Which turned his life around to some respect and then that resilience and that that that uh That defiance Served him well on the life raft and in the prison camp, but it let him down His defiant nature let him down after the war when he was suffering the post-traumatic stress disorder because he just wouldn't They didn't know how to treat it as a matter of fact. Yeah, it was true. Yeah. Yeah, just trying to turn him apart Yeah So so resilience then Came out of in a sense it came out of who he was as a person, but God sanctified that where did he and what point did he come to Christ? He came to Christ. He'd been the the more ended in 1945 He was suffering with his PTSD for about About four years and then in 1949 there was a revival meeting in downtown Los Angeles and a you know big canvas tent and my my mother Convince him to go he didn't want to go. He didn't want to know anything about You know revival preachers or anything and he walked in and he saw this Tall athletic good-looking young guy named Billy Graham preaching on the stage And of course he hated what he heard and he stormed out and though my mom talked him into going back Uh a couple days later and he went back and When he painted what he heard again and he started to storm out when suddenly uh, Graham's message seemed to be completely focused on my dad and he just stopped and listened to him Saying essentially that when you get to the end of your rope and you have no place else to turn That's when you turn to god to save you from whatever situation that you find yourself in right and you minded him of A day on the on the moment on the life raft had been about 30 days at sea They hadn't had any water to drink and for seven days. They knew they were dying And he uttered a prayer and said lord if you get me home from this alive I will seek you and serve you my entire life and lo and behold a cloud appears on the horizon And it's a cease-ball and it comes right over the raft and they put on a drinking water And so he repeated that prayer a couple more times Whenever they were out of water and the rains came again. It was really miraculous And he repeated that prayer in prison camp. So he totally forgot all about it That's how he heard uh, you know Billy Graham Talking about being at the end of your rope and it suddenly took him right back onto that life raft And he can feel the rain on his face and he said I don't know how I did it I just ended up down by the stage where they had all those counselors to walk through the process And he said that when he got up off his knees Uh, after saying the sinner's prayer he knew a miracle had happened to him He had knew that he was done uh getting drunk and he was done fighting And he knew he'd forgiven his prison guards including the bird now he's been been having horrendous nightmares Ever since he met the bird This this is how his post-traumatic stress disorder was manifesting itself And what did the what was that the bird did to him? You say he would he heard him? Did he uh beat him or oh? Yes, uh the the bird's job was to break this guy who wouldn't do the propaganda broadcast that That's Japanese imperial army what it can do And so he beat him every day he beat him with a kendo stick he beat him with a belt buckle a big iron You know belt buckle about two inches across He beat him with that and beat him with his fists. He kicked him. He broke his nose three times um and Of course the worst thing of all was he tried to remove his dignity. Yeah And uh he just would not he just refused to lose his dignity And of course his natural defined nature wanted revenge on the bird But he knew he couldn't he couldn't attack him in the prison camp They would just they would kill him. So he internalized his need for revenge That's that's what manifested the PTSD in the nightmares And that that night that he came to faith in that Billy Graham tent meeting Was the first night in years he didn't have that nightmare. He never had again the rest of his life Uh, his PTSD was gone in an instant and I remember hearing people say hey, well, you know That's impossible. How you your life can't change an instant like that. He says oh, yes, it can For instance, it changes the moment you say I do And you get married. I mean, that's it's your life is changing an instant. Right. So uh, but I firmly believe in my dad believed as well that this was a miracle God still can perform miracles when he wants to And this was a miracle That kept a series of miracles in my dad's life Just to show the power of God to other people that may be struggling with similar issues and so Really it really a miraculous moment It turned him around he was a different man from that day on yeah The Bible says we become and Proverbs for it says guard your heart Because you'll become what's in your heart And John 20 Jesus told the disciples when you forgive someone they're forgiven when you don't forgive them It's not released And so what you keep in your heart that's why the if you will without forgiveness the sons of alcoholics become alcoholics the sons of abusers become abusers because we've hated it, but we've never forgiven And so what you're saying Luke is that that night your father forgave that man who had so deep in fact He had dreamed of how he was going to get back at him. Yes He was his life was intent on going back to Japan finding this guy and killing that guy I'm gonna get that guy and he's thinking what he's gonna do to him Yeah So the night that he forgives him Not only is he become a follower of Christ and in but in a very real sense his headaches The many of the things that had had Caused him to have deep struggles We're instantly broken off his life by the power of forgiveness It yes, it was um But he used to say that you know Hating somebody was like taking poison and hoping the other guy dies because Your your hatred for that person person isn't doing anything to them, but it's tearing you apart So he was actually self-preservation for him to forgive the bird And he no longer You know Had that hatred in his heart form and people would say How does that happen? How does somebody forgive Of someone that had abused him so badly like that And I you know, I just got to tell you that I think I think my dad He had to love the bird with the same love that God had for him when he and His son to die in the cross for our sins and so it's that love of action at a coffee love if you will so he He wanted nothing but to go back and find the bird and preach the gospel to him Is that's how much his life changed Hey, this is Chris Let me take a moment right in the middle of this great conversation to remind you how to get in touch with Paul and Christian men's network and the global fatherhood initiative You can find all the resources for mentoring and fatherhood at cmn.min that cmn.min Also, you can write to Paul at Paul at cmn.min that's Paul at cmn.min We have tremendous resources for churches with special discounts for groups on that website Everything a church needs from a to z to mentor and disciple men of all ages and backgrounds Now, let's get back to this awesome interview between Paul and Luke's embryo Now the book the movie The con brothers unbroken the one it was huge all over the world, but I don't remember seeing that in that movie Yeah, the um the movie only told the story up to a certain point and I remember having conversations with the producer and the director is saying You don't understand uh because when we we hear from people that are affected by a story Yeah, we hear some people say what begins to vibe 47 days in a life bath. I can get to my kidney dialysis But most people hear from people saying he could forgive the bird After what he did to him. I could forgive my brother who I have been spoken to in the 25 years And this was the real power of the story And of course, you know, well, we only have two hours and 17 minutes to tell it we we wouldn't do it justice And so the the the film unbroken stopped at the end of the war my dad comes home in braces Who's family and that's the end of the film But um we were able to go back and get universal to fund a sequel and we made a sequel called unbroken Path redemption of course it had different actors in it for the most part except for the the the Manimum that played my grandparent say they made it from one film to the next and it covers my dad's a lover Fair with my mom after the war and they're getting married at their life together his frustration is PTSD And he's coming to faith It's really it's really Too bad it didn't get much promotion. It was really a good sequel. Okay, so it's getting some promotion right now So it's uh Right, it's available with pure flicks And it's called unbroken the path to redemption correct right and I want to recommend that that people get that and show that to youth groups Man show that to men show that to anybody right yes, you could show that on a men's breakfast something like that Take the time but that that story of forgiveness is so powerful and then your father When he forgives the man he's now launched and it goes back as a missionary. He's now launched into a whole new past of life Oh, absolutely. I the other day. I was looking to my dad's 1949 daytimeer, you know all these mundane entries about getting the car face to go into the post officer or whatever And then in November Actually was October of 1994 and I know since there's a there's an entry that says Cynthia my mom Comes to faith in Christ and in a few days later at another entry says Louis comes to Christ and then all the entries change it changed to Church of the open door gave my testimony received $20 uh, you know Banis Baptist Church gave my testimony and research $20 Back to the revival meeting gave my testimony So all of a sudden he was threatening to being a kind of an evangelist So all you do is tell his story and people would come to faith Wow, so it was an instant instant lifestyle change now So by the time you're born and you're cognitive Your dad's well-known Yes, and how did your journey of faith come out of that setting Okay, well my dad You know about a year before I was born he started a non-profit organization called victory boys camps He would go and get his out of the california youth correctional Facilities and take them up into the high sear as with another Olympian and and of course some sheriff's deputies would go along and he He tried to get through to them by teaching them that they can achieve things They teach him how to finish teach him how to climb teach him how to vote that kind of thing And I got to go along when I was just a wee boy And I was seven years old is sitting in you know driving down The highway in the high sear as a california with a carload of juvenile delinquents I gave my life to Christ. I you know I just just been around my dad who by the way Never stopped talking about the joy of having faith in Christ. He was always excited to share that um And uh, so I grew up in that Christian home and he was still quite famous in the 1950s and then Of course the cultural change of the 1960s came along and he began to fade from memory And he was kind of an unknown factor until Until the book unbroken came out in 2010 and became an instant hitch Five years on the New York Times bestseller list And he came a household name again Wow What were some of the key issues that that or key core values if you will look That your dad taught you that you pass on not only in your own family, but you pass on to Other young because in particular your foundation has a curriculum The hasn't been curriculum now for Essentially the 14 year old age group, but I'm sure we can go either direction on that Oh, yes, yes, we yes, we can as a matter of fact There is a place called the Dream Center in Los Angeles where those Fantastic work dealing with homeless people people recovering from addiction and stuff They're using the unbroken curriculum for their their adult male recovery program this year It's it's it's it's written for that 14 year old Mine, but it actually works on the other side of that the story The story affects people no matter what age group they're in and this is the way to methodology of exploring the story and really Fleshing out the the The themes that you see in it of you know survival Resilience with damson You name it so he caught he taught you then he taught you resilience He taught you forgiveness What are the core values then that you teach that he taught you? Well, he also taught me wisdom and you know, he explained to me that You know knowledge and wisdom are not the same thing, you know, you could have knowledge of something But wisdom would be the proper application of that knowledge or as I like to say Wisdom is the skill of maneuvering through life You know, you take what knowledge you have and you apply that and as you maneuver through life you make Hopefully wise decisions for yourself or you or or you at least you learn from the unwise decisions that you make Um, you know, he also taught me that you need to you need to have a good attitude We need to be a positive person uh, that um That and you need to do good deeds and he used to say that the being a good deed doer It was actually improved this health Because when you are when you're helping other people releases endorphins into your own bloodstream And it helps you uh, you know Keep your immune system up He just always had a positive attitude. He was so always said you have to have a positive attitude at all times And by the way his favorite Bible verse was Romans 8 28 Ruined all things work together for the good for those of love of Christ and are called uh according to Purpose and so that everything that happened in his life all his near-death experiences all of his torment Torments all of his survival as see all that Worked together for good because it gave him a message to give people that would lead them to Jesus Christ And so he felt it was all worth it and when the book unbroken came out he goes now. I know why I'm still alive It's so that this this story can get out in this in this scale and in fact uh as many people as as my husband I mean millions of people read book so he wrote a book called don't give up don't give in And in that one set there's one part we talked about hope and he says don't ask why ask what's next? Yeah Yes, absolutely, so don't give up don't give in is the life lessons that he learned from this experience and he put it in very uh very little short chapters that are easy for young people to read through and uh it's absolutely He was someone that you never what why me oh lord actually he did one time he told me that That when he had an operation he had half a kidney removed and he was in pain laying in the hospital You know, he'd been a Christian for about four years at this point. He's taken lord Why do you know I have to go through all this pain? You know, I you know I'm your servant why do I have to go through all this and he just kind of looked around the ward And saw all these other people and more pain that he was that May not have been Christians and he just said okay Well, do give me what I what I need to make me stronger and so he accepted his pain And he's been able to accept whatever Situation he finds himself in knowing that that he will be able to do said situation To then point people to the message that he'd spent his entire life Uh, which which was faith in Jesus Christ can change your life The myth yeah, and he didn't back off of that he you know You know If he was on a TV show or if he was being interviewed he never backed off of He didn't hit people in the face with it, but he just never backed off of here's what changed my life Yeah, well, you know what's what's what's unique about his story and uh, you know, I I do do some I visit high schools and I I visit correction of facilities and I do Skype calls with high school that have been reading the book and You you just telling what happened to the man you can mention Jesus Christ and how it changed his life and I saw this firsthand when I was with my dad in in Germany He was speaking to to some department of defense schools for the children of our military families that were living in Germany And so you know, he's because the question answered portion of his His talk and the hand goes up says yeah How could you forgive the bird like that and he talks about his conversion experience Some standing next to these army chapters whose chins are hitting the floor and they're saying We're forbidden to even mention the name Jesus Christ on these campuses. Your dad's getting away with it because the kids asked him And he's just telling what happened to him And so it's the same way with our unbroken curriculum in the public high schools They're just you know the book unbroken started religious book The author is not a Christian at least that not not as far as I know and But it just tells the story of a man that whose life gets turned around when he comes to faith in Jesus Christ So it's there for them to see And so It's the unique nature of his story. I think is that it's it's so compelling So that by the time you get to the to the the part where he comes to faith You're willing to hear it because it's what it's what turned him around Yeah, you know, it's it's just a It's such a dramatic story and it's so powerful and in really going back to The fact that he was a juvenile delinquent himself And didn't have a purpose in life And when he started running that changed everything gave him a object for his purpose And then he then he he goes through this whole you know the resilience and have hope and And the resilient optimism Those things and and goes through these terrible beatings comes back deals with a lot of stuff and then When he comes to faith in Christ, it's then he says now I know why I'm on the face of the earth, right His true purpose finally became down to him It's true purpose You know so often many of us find ourselves in a situation Luke Where we're wondering how did I get here? Why am I here? And if and and really we kind of get down about it very easily So well, I've missed God's plan or I've missed You know what his plan was so I guess I'll just never be anything I think your dad's story tells us there's something more than just that Little track that somehow somebody pulled us off of There's something larger and that's a purpose for our lives Yes, well, we uh, you know We like uh What the possible says where we can't all be eyes and we can't all be ears. Some of us need to get the toes so we When you have faith in Christ you have purpose Okay, you have purpose in your life and it whether it's to be to witness to your neighbor down the street or to Some buddy you get in a car accident with or you know what the situation is you're able to To share your faith when you know when appropriate That's purpose, you know, it's like You know People that may have delusions of grandeur like they want to be you know I great a great leader or great businessman or whatever When they find that they can affect the life of a misguided child that what greater purpose is there than that I mean that's for us to be able to to pour into other people That are experienced in our wisdom and our faith in in our Lord be able to share that with them And watch through lives turn around. It's worth it even just for one person Yeah, you know, you were a senior executive with the city of Los Angeles for many years and now Working with the Zamperini Zamperini Foundation And it's it's an amazing thing that you're doing Luke and I thank god for you Being willing If you will to wrap yourself in this legacy and carry it forward to touch Thousands alive and I'm thrilled that you've got unbroken the curriculum in the public schools That's amazing So I thank god for you Luke. I thank god for what you're doing. I thank god for your dad and what he was What he willed himself through to find a purpose of god in his life and for your mom And for you and your family Luke So we bless you and we thank god for you and we look forward to seeing unbroken in schools across the nation and around the world And in many different languages. I mean this is a a story and a message for the ages And if Christ comes back a hundred years from now ten years from now or a thousand I believe this is a story that still continues to meet to be told because it's a story of redemption It is indeed Luke is a pleasure to meet you. Thank you for taking the time Thank you Paul's a pleasure talking with you. All right god bless you. We'll see you Wow Paul we really know what a true hero is now Yeah, that man was a true hero his dad and Luke You know for him to just carry this on You know it shows a strength of humility doesn't it? Yes, and I mean it's literally bold In the reality of what a true legacy is yeah, he One of his things I think that that was really good that that Luke talked about is their message as a message of hope Yes, and I think to particularly they're going to a lot of inner city urban situations Chris Yes, and I think that's what young men need to see is they see a hero that's great But they also need to have a message of hope yeah, you know unbroken really speaks of Climbing out of situations crisis chaos things right yeah, and it really shows the It shows the blood sweat and tears that it comes to be successful Yeah, you know, that's that's part of it. It takes Tenacity yes, it takes being willing to stick to it. Yeah, you know many of the interviews were done with With men who have come out of difficult situations Um, and then basically a lot of our basically all our interviews have a beginning in the middle in an end Yeah, it wasn't just all hey, we're gonna interview you because your life's never had anything bad You've lived the perfect life, so come on our show But it also reminds me of what your dad wanted the quotes that will always be in my heart And I've really lived my life towards this champions are not those that never fell It's those that never quit yeah, and that has been a staple And I mean every one that we've had on this show yeah has been that I mean even the example you lead as the president of this organization That's what you walk in yeah, like you lead by that example. Yeah, never quit and like Sean Smith who's coming up Some of the other interviews that we have these are guys well all of them like I said, you know Everybody's walked through something Right and we all walk through something and that's the That's really what brave men is about. It's not about just meeting brave men It's about letting that story enlarge my life inspire me Put me in a place where I want to be closer to God where I really want to get into the word Let the spirit of Christ fill my heart so my identity is in Christ And I and I live like Louis Amperini in a world that's broken. I live in unbroken life Yes, and thanks for being with us today on brave men You've just experienced brave man with Paul Lewis Cole Paul is president of the Christian men's network Connect with Paul at cmn.man or write to him at Paul at cmn.man