BraveMen S3E41: Jim Garlow - Has the church lost its moral clarity?

It's not often you talk to somebody who you realize knows everything about everything and I don't just mean guys who know You know cultural stuff like NBA scores and whatever, but history the things that happened in the world in which I live Going back to how ideas started and that's Jim Garlo and so the interview today is not only with a a really good friend But it's also with somebody that it just always blows my mind. You're gonna absolutely love this Chris Shields is with me Chris You've been around Pastor Jim for a number of years, right? Yes, sir. We're out in San Diego I was at his church skyline when he was the pastor. Yes, sir and now his son-in-law, Jeremy Pastor Jeremy is Pastoring that church, but but he was over 20 years. Yes senior pastor does significant work But he's never shyed away from controversy. No, that's his middle name. It's his middle game I mean you were out there he went after the whole marriage Yes, prop eight out there in California. Yes, he took that on took it on with no hesitation and and built a a huge Ally group of allies from the Catholic Church has sent the Adventist to Wesley and whatever the whole thing. Yeah, that's pretty amazing to be able to do that. Yeah, definitely But I mean he's a leader. I mean you can as a leader. Yeah Yeah, when you're around him, you know that yeah, because he tells you what to do He suggests Highly suggest it. Well, he does that with me. I love Jim I love Jim, but he's you know, have you thought about yeah, have you thought about and This man he's written so many books. I remember when he wrote his first one I think it was how God saved the world and then now he's written 19 books well-versed biblical answer to today's tough issues and He and his wife Carol at the time she passed away in 2013 and now his wife Rosemary Schindler Garlo have this amazing ministry in Israel. Yes around the world But man he doesn't back off and we started talking about the church and he started telling me hey Here's where we're missing it. Yes, the pulpits of America. Wow, but I really love with him how he can take so many complex Things yeah, and bring it to the simplest level for you to understand Yeah, you can't walk out of a teaching from him and not say that you understand what he was right Yeah, yeah, it doesn't just go over your head So but he could because he's got all these doctorates and all this learning and and he does know as many words as I don't know Leonard sweet people like that. Yes. What's guys with big words. Yes. I'm not a big word guy I'm a big word in the word, but I'm not about big words Because I want it to be portable understandable and Jim Garlo is an amazing man You're gonna love this interview today on brave men with Jim Garlo just get ready and get ready to take some notes today on brave men It's brave man with Paul Lewis Cole Wisdom encourage for the journey I'm talking with Dr. Jim Garlo who is the CEO and founder of well-versed a ministry that's bringing Biblical principles of governance to government leaders and young adults and And across America and really around the world How do you bring Biblical principles into governance Jim it sounds like a an oxymoron to start with? Well, this is going to sound like a strange way of answering your question, but when I was age 9 August the 13th of my ninth year. I remember the day of Roas of governmental and learning came upon me Wow, I didn't know that term that phrase. I don't mean to suggest I called it that at that point was this on a tractor It's had to have been on a tractor. No, because you're from Kansas. You're from Kansas and you have one of the world's largest collections of tractor models Not the world's largest It's gotta be I was Collect some Well, what happened? What was the occasion? How in the world would you remember that? Well, it happened so happened. It was a hot summer day and it was the opening day of the democratic national convention I know this sounds pretty adequate of a TV's were relatively new and very rare in rare particularly rural areas And we were the second family in our area to get a TV and We were watching the democratic national convention. We never in it only been televised I once or twice before but nobody owned TVs to watch it. Yeah, this is quite a big deal And I remember being so impacted by that Usually impacted at like Stevenson won the nomination. I was gonna say I was Adelaide Stevenson But his ties and how are yeah, it was actually the first time probably that John Fitzgerald Kennedy's name was actually mentioned National TV in the context of a of a convention. Yeah, but considered as a VP candidate potentially at that time His gracious speech when he lost is what setting up for 1960 But on that bigger occasion. I just remember it extremely well And I watched we get I watched the news For governmental issues political issues from that day on the rest of my life. Wow So that's how it began and what what has opened up more recently Um is we bring biblical principles of governance to government leaders through Bible studies I wrote a book called well-versed before we use that name for our ministry But it lays out the biblical foundations for about 30 different political or governmental topics Rocks in minimum wage social security health care welfare you name the topic I left the scriptural underpinnings to each one of those and that's the bible We have short videos for every one of those chapters. And so that's what we use the bible study Are you saying wait whoa whoa whoa? Are you saying there's biblical underpinnings? For things I saw security and the issues we face in government Every one of the issues that gets discussed God God God processes this before is God who established government Because God who establishes nations And he is so loving and so compassionate He not only designed the Bible to speak to our personal issues Not only to family issues not only to church issues but issues of civil governance And to the extent that we will follow biblical principles for civil governance So that same extent we will reduce human pain suffering and poverty Now the flip side of that is also true unfortunately To the extent that we violate Principles of scripture and civil governance to that same extent we will increase Human pain suffering and poverty the average person does not know what I've just said Right there follow a price and the scripture speaks Of all of these issues Yeah, so so basically you're that guy You know because we're told at when you go to a party Don't talk about religion or politics But you're that guy I grew up in a home We only discussed two things politics and religion And I knew your father and of course you were my pastor from many years and you were my father's A pastor and your dad was a great man a smart man and your mom Brilliant lady, but but yeah, they're on a farm in Kansas. You begin to learn that the core values of what it is To be a follower of Christ and and also and again The biblical principles of governance what happens too often is is because we live in America United States of America We have a tendency to feel like it's their hours, but they don't belong to us. They belong to every single person in the world Right even no matter what government they live under Yeah, this is this is way beyond Americanism. This is this is universal and God thought of established all Nations here was really interesting about this ball In a survey the George Barnard did 90% of pastors agreed That the Bible speaks to the political social and cultural issues of our day In that same survey when they were asked Based upon that have you in the past or will you in the future Speak on what the Bible says about those cultural social political issues 90% said no they hadn't and no they wouldn't Wait, wait wait, man So in other words, so 90% of 90% is like that means 80% of the pastors the pulpits Where I mean basically what what was the rudder of founding a nation of freedom Would not speak to these issues now? I was with George Barnard before he released This study openly and he told me so I just finished the study a survey and it I could tell by his countenance that was very He was very troubled with very bothers or George is a close friend like we texted him just this last night and and he it bothered him enormously now let me rewind those numbers 90% agreed Revolt speaks to these issues But when asked will you speak to those issues? 90% said no, I would not wow now Barton David David Barton another close buddy I've been to his place number time if we go out there to our book together back he pointed out that He has the largest collection of writings before 1812 Of the family fathers right yeah, I've actually seen it I'm sorry. I've seen it. It's amazing. You've been out there to Alito. That's it's it's an amazing collection Well, it's the largest private collection of his kind in the world and he points out He brought me out one day to show me all his sermons and what pastors covered in their topics Wow, what pastors preach on in the founding years of our country the answer is everything Every single thing that came up every governmental political issue Everything pastors spoke to that so they be the scriptures became the formation of people's thinking on Yes, and what a difference we have today Where a pastor will say Well, I know I'm going to politics Right, I preach Jesus The problem with that is that we ought to preach Jesus. I gave an invitation for people received price almost every time I've ever preached However, we should preach what Jesus preached and what did he preach was the kingdom He he talked about being born again on one occasion and that's very important to help people being born again Right, he talked about the kingdom about 30 times more than that And the nature of the kingdom what is the kingdom? I either privilege over the last two years of meeting with 10 different Presidents prime ministers and kings. Wow. Only one of them was a king. So I should say a king And where I walked in that there was a delegation of 12 of us Went into this king's palace This king of bill of the second in Jordan And they walked in and I realized I've never been in the presence of a king And I was just astounded when we met him He's not up for reelection in four years. Right This is a king his daddy was king before him his son presumably will be king after him He's king it's all his King and I realized how a difficult time we some Americans with our sort of democratic democratic bent and in terms of democracy and our Our constitutionally public and elections every four years or two years How we we don't grasp how a kingdom function. He's he's king. So yeah, yeah It's Chronicles of Narnia. He's the king over everything Yeah My mind issue is not the political my issue is the governmental Uh Government is on the shoulders of Jesus. So it's a good thing The government involved is a very very powerful and okay, okay, so there's a there's a huge distinction Let me give you a little context and then I will give your website But just a little context For us who are listening Who like who where's this guy coming from Master theology Princeton theological seminary PhD historical theology from Drew University Asbury theological Bastard's master's southern Nazarene Oklahoma Wesleyan You've been in school half your life, man Well, I miss it my life, but I'm older now But you're older now And you're married to beautiful wife Rosemary you married to our dear friend Carol years ago who Went to be with the Lord in 2013 and But but these things so in other words you're not coming from sort of a non-historical background or non-learned You're not a barefoot, you know farmer from Kansas who's just waving his fist at politics Which is what I appreciate about well-versed now give me the website again well-versed well-versed world.org Well-versed world.org Well-versed world.org Okay, and then also we can look up your wife your wife one of descendants of Oscar Schindler Rosemary Schindler she has Schindler's arc Is that calm? We should know these things I'm looking at all look it up. I'll look it up. I'll look it up. I got it right here It's Schindler's arc calm. I'll save you man. Thank you, and I will not tell your wife Oh, that's a bad happen even though it's it's on a podcast there but it's gonna hear So the fact is is that you're a number of years ago and refresh my Memory I think it seems to me it was 2008 you went after something in California you were pastoring a church called skyline church Your son-in-law Jeremy Brilliant young leader he and his wife jane your daughter Our pastoring that church now called skyline. It's in San Diego County and But you saw something happening in that state that threatened biblical values And you went after it and and you got into a fight there were people who said you shouldn't be involved tell me about it was called prop 8 Tell me about that gem Proposition 8 was only 14 words and it's up to say only marriage being a man and a woman will be valid and recognized in the state of California wait a minute so And that was 14 words that was it only 14 words and we came a multi-million dollar fight 42 million on our side to be exactly 40 you know their Their side and it actually passed as a as proposition 22 back in year 2000 and was added to California family law However, it was obvious the sense it was not a part of the Constitution is only family law The some judges were going to a few years later throw it out And so we we had to get Oh, remember the number now half million or seven or 50 thousand signatures whatever it was You get it on the ballot because we felt like they were going to throw it out and sure enough they did But fortunately we had enough signatures and we put it on the ballot And past I had my first conference call with 1700 pastors on that call and Christian leaders Wow, and then the second one we had I think it was 3200 3400 3400 Pastors and Christian leaders on the next conference call we started this is before live streaming. It was much more Techie and clunky to do it and we had to do what was called webinars back in that day And so we did a series of webinars plus of satellite that satellite uplinks to do major Satellite productions or promotions to make the whole state of California aware of it Pastors rose up across the state of California. We then linked up with our Catholic friends Archbishop Salvador Cordelloni who is now the Archbishop of San Francisco Game of host friend in that battle and so the Catholics and even Jolgos linked up together And then we linked up also the same marriage with the Mormons at that time And linked up with their leadership to make sure we could defeat it and we were told all along We could not limit it because we started out in the field pole of being 38% positive and no in the history of California No pole and no proposition ever started in the negative in a pole and ever one So we pulled by both friends and enemies. It was it's unwinnable. It could not mean one Well, I asked glue angle to come to our state to move to our state With his wife and seven children what you did and lead us in a 40-day fast the state went on a 40-day fast Christians People started joining us from all over Three days before the election. We had 33,000 in Qualcomm stadium here in San Diego The culmination of a 40-day fast We had all these webinars going across the state and then we organized in such a way So that we had a hundred thousand boots on the ground people on the ground on the day of the of the actual election And so we had people at all that the tens of thousands appreciates the cross-California We had done our homework before that by phoning and knocking on doors to an extent So we knew who was against us and couldn't be moved who was for us and would be rock solid And then the machine metal that needed to be touched with information And so it was a very very well thought out and structured campaign involving many different components Of people working together and so on the day of the campaign At 2 p.m. They post Who was voted or not voted and so our people were at all these precincts all across the state of california And they we knew who had not voted who was with us and we started phoning all of them across the state And when the when the death settle it was over we won With 7 million boats we won 52.3 percent Wow the battle that we were told could never be won Okay, well, and what was the importance of that? What what's the important? I mean if if people want to get married what's the big deal But what's the definition of sex or some people you change the definition of marriage for all people A god is or eight marriage as one man one woman Oh, once you change it the definition it's not a case of living lightly. I was the case now that It becomes it becomes now expanded your your coerced Your coerced into embracing an immoral construct And so that's that's still In the offings all kinds of businesses have been shut down if they will not Go along with that So it has radically altered The landscape we I was in the Supreme Court the day the jack Phillips was there He won that case now they've shooting the second time now shooting the third time That is that the is that the baker yeah, yeah, that wouldn't make the cake for a washing this day I've been with her and she's she's lost They're coming after her home and her entire pension. I've been with the t-shirt maker and Lexington Kentucky Yeah, and it's all these people who've been so severely persecuted If they will not knuckle under an anti-biblical concept and we also now have Uh, it's quite a bit of pressure being put on to We're on the definition of marriage. Why can't three women marry a man or three men where I won't won't woman Um, and so on and on the definition of marriage. It's just simply it has lost The state has lost its moral authority to rule is by the way When our case went to the Supreme Court Oh, we did not lose the case as people report Proposition eight was never defeated. What happened there was we did doubt We were a rule to Supreme Court that we the people did not have legal standing to bring the case to the Supreme Court Okay, it was never the marriage would never rule so the real issue is what's our standard of truth and and and once we lose that true north so marriage wasn't In other words what marriage wasn't the end all issue it really had to do with what are our what's the foundation and what are the principles that we base governance on Is that right? Precisely and in studies that we had done in countries that are are further ahead of us in this journey We found the tremendous violations of religious liberty and of conscience occurring overwhelmingly and that is precisely what has occurred in our own country Get fear and intimidation has ruled today Uh, precisely as we said it would Uh, the whole notion of legalizing for example Of pedophilia as precisely where the pressure is coming on right now and and we'll probably go through at some point unless our unless our nation Regents all the domino effect that we said what happened as exactly what's starting Uh, to unfold in the culture and what's interesting uh is And I pressed some of my friends on this who all of those homosexuals said Even when when you were allowed to get married you didn't You really didn't want marriage what you wanted was Uh, in effect just of forced Christians to redefine marriage because there's enormous numbers high percentage of people Who now could get married According to state and and they did not they did not do that And that's fascinating and if you study this the statistics on homosexual relationships You find out that the average homosexual man has six different Relationships per year on average divorce uh, the suicide rates are higher and so forth and so on So you know what you're really talking about though is the game jingah In that if you take one little block out it looks like everything's gonna stand if you take another little block out Looks pretty good and then all of a sudden you take another one out and the whole thing falls over Wow how insightful with jingarlo Let's take a moment though in this time to talk about all the great resources we offer here with Christian men's network and the global fatherhood initiative You can find all the resources for mentoring and fatherhood at cmmin.min That's cmmin.min Also, you can write to Paul at Paul at cmmin.min That's Paul at cmmin.min We have tremendous resources for churches with special discounts for groups on that website Everything a church needs from a to z to mentor and disciple men of all ages and backgrounds Now let's get back to this awesome interview between Paul and jingarlo You know basically boils down to this what is the source of authority for the nature of truth That's the core of it certain things are true and certain things are false What is the foundation piece for government? The critics of us people like that say oh you just want a theocracy Uh, no, I frankly don't even know how a theocracy would function I just want there to be the recognition of even in this case in America America's founding fathers When you look at the founding fathers and their writings the most quoted book That they that they quoted their writings was the bible. The second most quoted source was them quoting others to be quoted the bible Yeah, it's not by accident all those big marble statues have a written them on the scripture all over Uh, Washington DC is because we were foundationally built upon a judeo christian structure And once you violate that Then you have no at that point You have no you said a moment ago no no no no north You have no source of what actually is truth. Yeah, where does truth come from and the implications or culture That's why we have for example a massive amount of human trafficking the abuse Of young children. Why isn't there is no moral compass that's allowed Yeah, if there's no moral compass then what happens is it truth becomes your truth whatever you want truth to be And the problem there is is that we have no basis it is shifts and moves And then we try to say wait a minute you can't do that. Well, why not You know what stops me. It's my truth There's no moral absolute So you you actually are part of what's called the pulpit freedom movement Because we go back to what George Barnett and his team A found out in that you're telling pastors and men who speak from pulpits and stages To speak out on the on the issues Yeah, the background of that is on july the second 1954 a very angry linden bane johnson who was then senator Before he became president Return to washington DC where they were in discussion and overhauling Uh the the tax structure He put an amendment up that had only a voice vote and had no discussion They became nicknamed the johnson amendment, which essentially said that a 501 c3 Could not endorse or oppose the candidate the problem with that A 501 c3 is the iris delineation of the church or not for profit there are 29 different categories of 501 c There's only one 501 c3 and that's the one that got single out That they could not oppose her dorsha candidate Wow, why did that go through johnson's own Legislative legislative aid later admitted We didn't even have churches in mind we were mad at two businessmen who used their 501 c3 Non-profit audition to oppose us that we were trying to shut them down But the iris jumped on that and made a ruling therefore the pastors could not endorse or oppose the candidate The problem is the iris themselves cannot define what that means for example if a pastor says Well, the bible is pro-life gods pro-life so we should vote pro-life. We should never vote for a pro abortion candidate Well, is that not in fact in many elections a de facto endorsement or a statement opposition? Uh the iris strangely doesn't know how to answer that question So but so what you're saying is The iris it's not their place to make law Well, it's not their place to police pulpits That you have if you were gonna if you were gonna actually enforce this you would have to have pulpit police in every church Listening to what's being said There's a reason why we have the phrase separation of church and state As most people most your listeners are sophisticated. They know right Came from January the first 1802 never had the meeting Uh of being to the state that have controls over the church on this because actually is the opposite But the church had no control in the state But it did not rule out religion from impacting in government as well. Tom Jefferson met by a phrase wall of separation And it was understood what it meant all the way through the years Supreme Court until the 1947 Everson case In that case, the Supreme Court actually flipped Thomas Jefferson's statement about wall of wall separation flipped it on his head and interpreted the exact opposite of what he had intended And that was and now in terms of separation of church state to mean the church could not impact the state Which is precisely opposite of what Jefferson had intended in general Jefferson's intention was that the state could not come in And impose itself on religion Yeah, the Dan very Baptist of whom he wrote that was the wall of separation Yeah, and he says he says that the federal government has no right to intervene at all We have no we have no reason and the Supreme Court would go on to say That whatever you can wherever you tax you can kill So we should out of respect for churches. We had no right legally to tax churches People think that Pastors got together with government and cut a deal and says hey, we won't talk about government If you won't taxes. That's not all what happened What happened is the Supreme Court understood exactly The reason for the separation and that the government had the power to tax it had the power to control and to kill it Wow Recognition of an authentic separation church of state. There was no taxation allowed the Supreme Court really you're very clear On that particular issue Well, long comes then This ruling is Johnson amendment and so what happens? Pastors get intimidated and get bullied left wing organizations I've gotten these letters myself left wing organizations some letters out to pastors says Well, you better not speak out on on governmental political issues because if you do you lose your tax exemption There has not been one church to lose its tax exemption in the history of this one lost its tax exempt letter for a day But no churches lost their tax exemptions So because that law is used to intimidate pastors And lies defending freedom of group of 3000 Christian attorneys decided to challenge it And so we had pulpit initiative Sunday where we intentionally violated the Johnson amendment We endorsed or opposed to Canada. I don't know how many guys did I think probably around 4,000 But I'm not sure what the number was and we we sent our sermons into the IRS And to which they responded with cards. I think we've got your sermon So somebody's got to begin saved at the IRS with all those great sermons there Uh, I haven't seen the evidence for it yet But in all this time the IRS would not take on a single church Yeah, and take them to lawsuit We had 3000 Christian attorneys ready to defend any church in America And they would not because presumably they knew it would get ruled unconstitutional. Yeah, they knew yeah Yeah, so bottom line is is pastors are free to speak on issues and need to and if we don't we lose our salt I mean we we lose our Our impact and influence on culture. I don't know how we can I don't know how we can preach Jesus in freedom Without speaking to the issues that cause people to be enslaved No, here let me give an illustration of a conversation With with a friend of mine and he's pastures that I pastured a large church But he pastured a church much larger than mine When they were talking he's taller than me and he looked down at me both physically And condescendingly and he says I don't I don't do politics In a smug way Now he and our still friends you know it just gonna sound pretty great forward But my person also message my problem with you Is not political my problem of you is biblical. You're not biblical I says let me let me give you an example. I says If it was 1860 and I was a slave and my slave owner was going to go to church What would what I as a slave want my slave owner to go to your church or to Jim's church answers Jim's church Because I would address the son of slavery and you know I said if I was a Baby in a womb of a 14 year old girl who lived close to plan parenthood Would I as that baby want her to go to your church or to Jim's church the answer is my church Because I will address the son of abortion and I will attempt to do everything I can to support her and help save the life of that baby It makes it politics It's not really politics. It's biblical not political. That's okay. That's now that's huge right there It's not politics. It's governance Yep, see see politics is the goal to get your guy elected every two years. Right I'm about something so much bigger than that And that is I don't want I just want to win election every two years I want to win the hearts and minds of every person elected office So they'll be so in love with God so attuned with his word They'll understand the scripture speaks on these issues and the result will will get people in office Who will intuitively know by their love of scripture love of God How to respond to every governmental situation and it'll bring peace and prosperity upon the nation You know Jim Jim Garlow. I mean we could we could go on for a long time. I want to thank you for being on brave men This is because the only way we protect the future is to be active in the present You know You know brotherhood of commissioned men and you're on our board with christian men's network And I thank you so much for this kind of input You are a How do you respond to this? Let me just ask you this because I read this about you in an article. It says uh You're a radical right wing evangelical Okay, let's take one to a word radical mean to the root. Yes. I go to the root the root. Okay. That's good It's not right versus left. It's right versus wrong. I want to be in the right way not the wrong wing So yeah, even I believe that Jesus died on the cross from my sins. We can be forgiven or a sins and he was he resurrected on the third day He's coming back to judge again. I believe the Bible. So I'm an evangelical. They are correct in their assessment You are a master senior attrition man. I mean, I love that well. Let's take a word by word In fact, let me take the word RAD Yeah In 17 and 1724 that word was used in the sky Do something else, man And I really people need to you've written 15 books, but I want to mention a couple of them well versed Is is an incredible book because it it gives us the biblical underpinnings to issues it we face as men as parents As men who are concerned about culture and in other words We need to be able to speak to these things when people bring these things up We should not be intimidated and so Jim you and rosemary and your ministry and and and we could talk some other time about Israel and Jerusalem the things you're involved there with people can see it on Shindler's arc dot com Jim Shindler's arc write this down Shindler's arc Oh But the fact is I thank God for somebody as learned it as you are Who's also got the cajones to go out there and just go for it Because this has come with with you've you've gotten personal hits Not just death threats and things like that But just you've taken personal hits where people you who used to be your friends were you don't hear from them anymore And you've done that for us So that if you will like you the proud of a of an icebreaker And I thank you and rosemary for taking the hits for us And it's it's a joy because the word the word is so good if people could just see you out the word That word of God covers all these stuff I we we have a mystery of the United Nations we have met privately with 91 of the 193 ambassadors of the United Nations wow and let me give an example of one that took not too long ago I was sitting with an ambassador of a small muslim nation And I said serve 40% of your population is unemployed That's staggeringly painful that is so difficult on your people your people hurt Yes, I said let me tell you who I am I come bringing biblical principles Of economic matters for nations to cause them to prosper Hmm, I said can I pray for you based on is it of course He didn't have a resistance to me as a Christian To him as a Muslim with a Muslim nation when I explained to him the word of God has a blessing for your nation Now people could just understand Whether it's taxation or minimum wage or social security or health care or welfare Are you named the cause that God has a better way Why they would just run to the word of God and want to be educated on civil governments Yeah, so we as an electorate would elect people godly people who also understand that and we would bring peace and prosperity To the land So as a man. I mean just where I live today the hope I have Whether it's coronavirus crisis or you know, there's going to be another crisis in 24 months Whatever crisis it is My the foundation I have for my life is the word of God And and so that's why well versed is such a great book and you can find that on amazon.com That's Jim Garlo G a R L O W and and on the front of that book some of some of your books there are Jane Dr. James Garlo They're all on the front. They're also James L Garlo. That's my legal name. Yes, Dr. James L Garlo. Okay. Yeah And so that's you know, so if you want to know, you know We know you as pastor Jim that's where our family does you And but man, what a what an amazing ministry and a great book And then you've written a number of others that are fantastic and you and rosemary very involved united nations You're doing Bible studies in the capital of the of the United States Uh, you've done these things you've as you mentioned you've spoken to presidents and that's all on your website There's things on there and there's also downloaded courses we can take things we can learn from That is actually just getting put together on our website so keep watching that that'll be Very soon. I always want to say an enormous heartfelt appreciation Or you or christianman's network I had the privilege of uh knowing dr. Cole Cole extremely well endless Cole Was one of the most influential males in my life Uh, in fact when I was at his funeral the burial site I wept I wept It's the loss was so deep or some of us And what he launched what he did what he wrote what he said And the way he confronted he confronted me numerous times and a godly way that altered the project the trajectory of my life And then Paul to watch you to take this and when you receive the mantle of this I remember watching has that began to unfold Uh, you didn't know I was going to say this but christianman's network is one of the most encouraging movements There's just a few movements that just just i break out and joy say boy it gives me hope And what you've accomplished. I don't know how many nations How many nations total are are you are you guys in your material in now on the ground 134 countries in 38 languages See that that's there's only 193 nations right nation together. So you're you're on a staggering number of them and this is a Huge and why I encourage every pastor and every christian man listening to me You get hold this literature and find out how to plug in it doesn't doesn't get better than this So Paul I say wait way to go way to go. Yeah, thank you Jim that that's uh That's very special for you to say that and uh again wellverse.com And you can find a well-versed world well-versed world Don Ward Yeah, we'll put it on the show notes. It'll it'll be on there well-versed world dot org And um Yeah, this is great stuff and I know you've got as you said you're downloading things Uh, we can find you there. We can find you on uh shillers arc A dot com you and your wife rosemary and the work you're you're doing on behalf of is or to israel And to the Jewish people but thank you for all this man Uh, this is absolutely amazing and we pray for you and rosemary there You place you put your feet will be holy ground and everything you put your hands to it will prosper And Jim we pray that you and rosemary and your family and all your grandchildren will be held deeply in the grip of his favor In jesus name the days and I pray the same for you and your offspring my brother We love you and bless you. It's a it's a joy to reconnect with you right now. Hey, man. Love you, man Love you. Thank you How many notes did you take Paul doing this episode? Yeah, no kidding man I mean really seriously when when I start talking to Jim I I pull my phone out of pull notes out of do something even when he and I are just on the phone together You know, this is friend. Yes, you know talking about the children and talking about him out there You know riding his bike on the what's what's that place in San Diego out there on the near the ocean Mission Beach. Yeah, yeah, you know all those areas. Yeah, he goes to it and and because he'll say well, you know last week Rosemary and I were with the president of Honduras. Yes. Oh really I was you know, I'm on my backyard Yeah, they're about changing the world, man. Yes, amazing guy and so insightful, right? Oh unbelievable crazy I mean, there's never a dull moment with him. He can tell you a date He'll say you know back in 1818 Well, shoot what happened in 1818. I'll mention something like well Jim You know, that's isn't that kind of like such and such. I'll say something he'll go Well, I actually know Paul in 1732. It was a meeting Happened in Switzerland. It was between and I'm like, okay And on the other hand on the other hand there are some things that that I can win on it usually something like NBA You know, it's like something that means nothing to the future of the world. Yes. Yes Like I'm shocked that he watches the Super Bowl. Yeah, well, you know, well, but he probably already knows that the score is gonna be I mean really he's got this prophetic thing anyway, Jim Garlo's heard Daily in over 800 radio outlets nationwide. The thing I love about him is he stood up and he stood strong in NBC MSNBC CNN Fox and he showed that he's interviewed on He's just bam moral clarity. Yeah, that's what this program was about You know, so I love you know, man the guys we've had on Chris So maybe Barton and go back tomorrow and and I had some of the early shows last season It's really tremendous. I want to thank you and everyone who's been listening to this podcast and listening To brave men over the last few seasons and and Chris shields. You've done a great job pulling things together on some of the interviews that we have right now And we've got some great ones coming up. We had a John Eldridge last season. We've got Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North coming up Got a number of other people looking forward to it But but really digging into this is what I believe why I believe it Brave men isn't just about introducing you to a man who's brave and stands up It's about becoming a brave man That's why we do what we do you can write to me at Paul at cmn.man Paul at cmn.man And let cmn.man on that website are tools and resources to mentor your children To be involved in your church To help other men in fact go on there grab one of these books materials like maximize manhood send it to somebody You know somebody right now Who needs that and you also know someone who needs to watch or listen to this podcast Make sure you like us hit that is a like button Yeah, it's a light you got a share button on my yep button All that copy the link share to a friend of the link follow we need followers yep more followers the better right subscribe Subscribers that's it man. Yes, you know all that podcast language. Yes. Oh, that fun stuff. That's why I like hanging out with you I love thinking I would you too All right. Thank you guys for being with us today on brave man. God bless you. We'll see you next time You've just experienced brave man with Paul Lewis Cole Paul is president of the Christian men's network Connect with Paul at cmn.man or write to him at Paul at cmn.man