BraveMen S3E100: Robert Barriger - Stalwart Men Carry Hope

There were terrorists waiting for Robert Barriger at an orphanage that he had begun. It was a tense situation. Every Friday he would pick up the mail and then the mail from the United States would be a checker two or three and he would be able to buy food and take it down to the orphanage that he had started. The orphanage was started with some young children that Robert said I'll take care of them. They were from the interior. There were terrorists 30 years ago throughout Peru and these interior native and these people said if you don't help our children, the terrorists are going to recruit them. Take them from us. Could you take care of them? He said sure. He got a little house on the outskirts of Lima, Peru and he began to take care of these children. The terrorists didn't like that. They wanted to kill Robert. So they came on a Friday knowing that every Friday he would take the bus with the checks get some money, go buy some food and bring it out to the orphanage every Friday afternoon. At Friday noon these terrorists showed up. The gates of the orphanage were closed. The terrorists waited outside. The people could see them. They tried to call Robert, but the lines weren't working. Nothing was working. They couldn't get a hold of them. They disnew that when he arrived late afternoon, those terrorists were going to kill them. There were five of them out there with some machine guns and weapons to kill Robert Berger. It is an amazing story and one that he very rarely talks about. In fact, today we don't talk about it much. That's why I'm telling you about it now because this interview with Robert Berger is with a hero of the faith. This man is a remarkable man who is one of my closest friends. I've watched his life for over 20 years. I've watched him how he does it, what he does. I've learned from him. I've watched his church grow when he began to emphasize ministering to men. I watched Camino Davida, the church that he and his wife Karen Pastor, with their children Taylor and Shawna and Jenna and Pedro and their grandchildren now. But I've watched that church grow from 500 to 5,000 when he began to disciple men. Then from 5,000 to now, even in the pandemic, their church grew. They had hundreds of people except Christ online in one of the most desperate nations in the world, highest percentage rate of deaths in the pandemic. So what happened with those terrorists? This is an amazing story. For a couple of years, every Friday when the mail came, there would be checks in the mail. For the first time in almost three or four years, there was no money. There was no checks. Robert was devastated, downcast. Didn't know what to do. He thought, man, how do I take food to the orphanage? He thought, well, I'll just wait another day. Isn't that amazing? The next day, a whole bunch of letters arrived. Money arrived. He was able to go out to the orphanage and bring them food. When he got there, Saturday, he knocked on the door. They said, who is it? Said, it's Pastor Robert. They said, what? They opened the door. They all started crying, hugging him. He couldn't figure it out. Well, why are you guys hugging me? What's happening? And they said, terrorists were here yesterday. We thought that they stopped you before you got close to the orphanage when you got off the bus. We thought you were dead. That wasn't the only time that people have tried to end his ministry and end his life. But it's an amazing man who continues. And today, this interview, I want you to listen to it. I want you to really kind of get in a place where as you're driving or jogging or working out or whatever it is when you're listening to this podcast. I want you to get into a place where you can listen not only to what he says or what he teaches. I want you to hear his heart. I want you to pick up something from it. I want you to get it in you because these kinds of men are the kinds of men when you hang out with them. It makes you larger. It makes you better. It makes you stronger. Today, because Christian men's network partners around the world sponsored this podcast, we're able to do this with Pastor Robert Berger from Communion De Vida in Lima, Peru. Today, a man who has changed the world in which he lives, and he's touching the entire world with the gospel of Jesus Christ. Today, I'm Brave Man, Robert Berger. It's Brave Man with Paul Lewis Cole, wisdom and courage for the journey. I'm saying with Robert Berger, who pastors Communion De Vida in Lima, Peru, and how many times, let me just start the podcast with this. How many times have terrorists tried to kill you? I really don't know because sometimes God just stopped them. Yeah, we've been miraculously saved a few times. We know of that. You're so humble on that stuff, man. All these years, I've known you, you're like, yeah, I don't know. It's like just guys with guns and rocket launchers. You hear through different ways that, yeah, they were after you. They tried to do this, but you wonder, really, what do they want to do that for? Yeah. Well, I'm just a pastor. You're just a pastor, yeah, but you're changing internally the heart and life of a nation. So you're in Lima, Peru. You've been there how many years? 38 years. 38 years. Now you didn't start in Lima, which is a big city. Yeah, we did actually. Did you start in Lima? Well, we've always lived in Lima, our heart in the beginning we thought we'd work in the jungles and the mountains. Yeah, so that's what you did. You were in the Amazon. I traveled a lot. We planted churches. Our first five years there, we were with another mission that was head of Bible school. So we took their students out after they graduated and planted about 80 churches in those first five years. Yeah. You planted 80 churches. This is the first five years you were there. The first five years. Now the Amazon starts in Peru, because we always think of it as in Brazil, most of us, North Americans. But it actually starts in Peru, is that right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. You can take ocean, you know, cargo ships up to in the Peru on the Amazon. Wow. Now you're on the West Coast. So you've got waves, ocean, and then you're butted up against Bolivia. So it goes way up into the Andes. Didn't you've got the jungle in the Amazon? Pretty amazing country. Yeah, we border five countries. It's Ecuador, Colombia, Bolivia, Chile. Yeah. And you have a lot of people who have come in from Venezuela. Refugees. We have over a million Venezuelan refugees in Peru right now. And they're pretty scared because we just had elections. And we're leaning the wrong direction. Leaning the wrong directions. So they don't know where to go now after they had to leave Venezuela. Yeah. So you so you're a missionary, right? In Peru, 38 years ago, you and Karen arrived there with your two little children, Taylor and Jenna. And so I guess this came from probably a youth camp. You were growing up in church. Go to a youth camp. Some guy preaches. You're like, yeah, this is it. You go to Bible college. Go to Peru. Here am I sending me. Yeah. Kind of not like that. No, it wasn't. I mean, every time a missionary came through and gave an alter call, I was at the altar. You know, God, I want to do that. Send me somewhere. Yeah. How old were you when that happened though? Oh, 18, 19, 20. So what happened before 18? I was a surfer in Southern California. You were a surfer in Santa Monica. Yeah. Just doing the beach scene. Yeah. You were basically part of if anybody's seen the movie, Dogtown and Zee Boys and the old, the way really where professional surfing is today, the old professional surfers, you were one of those original guys up Civic Ocean Park, Santa Monica, all the breaks. Southern California. Yeah, beach boys. Back in those days, if you surfed in any kind of competition, you got a t-shirt. That's funny, man. It's a big business. Now they get a lot of money. It's like, yeah, if I was only born 20 years later. How many high schools did you go to? Four. Four different high schools was invited to leave me. You were invited to leave a few. Yeah. So in other words, you were living a, if you will, a nomadic surfer's life. You had a, what, dysfunctional home life? What was going on? Oh, yeah, totally. My dad left home, left our house when I was just a baby. I remember met him in my life, didn't know what he looked like. Mother cared for us, but she was poor and nurse. Yeah. So raised us in the wrong neighborhood, hooked up with the wrong friends. The best she could do, but you just, you were gone. By the time you started surfing, 13, 14. Yeah, surfing. That life came into us. You know, there was some guys that had a garage on the beach in Santa Monica. So started putting our surfboard in there and then we just started living there. Yeah. You know, it was easier to, to hitch to the beach with the board there and then, you know, it pretty soon was just easier to stay there. Easier to stay there. Yeah. Exactly. So we stayed in the garage and surfed up and down, up and down the coast. The coast of California. Yeah. You didn't get all the way to Santa Cruz. It's too cold up there. It was too cold up there once. Yeah. Once got to Santa Cruz. We used to, because that's where I grew up. That's where we surfed. Yeah. We surfed a place called the ranch, the Hollister Ranch. Oh, you didn't get all the way. Okay. Hollister Ranch. That's Carmel Monorade down there. Yeah. Well, yeah. It's Santa Barbara. A little Santa Barbara. That's right at Hollister. Yeah. Yeah. The town. Yeah. Sounds like the ranch. You know, once from the ranch, because we'd go there and camp and just surf up there and then one time we went up to Santa Cruz surfed. It was cold. It was cold. It was cold. That's real men surfed Santa Cruz. Yeah. Because I can't feel anything. Dude, I'm telling you bad. We would we would start laughing at each other. Like, dude, your lips are purple, man. You know, it's like, because we'd be out there before school. Yeah. You know, go surfing and stuff. So you live that lifestyle, which in some ways our culture has made that, you know, like really romantic, the romantic surfer, just outdoing stuff on his own, nomadic, you know, hashtag van life, all that kind of thing. But but you found yourself at some point feeling like, where's this going, right? When I got saved, it was when purpose came into my life. You know, it was up until then it was the nomadic life. Let's just live to party, live to surf, right? Someday dying a big wave. Well, and that was it. And that was it. Yeah. How do you come to Christ now? I've got invited to a small church. They had a concert in the church called Hope Chapel in Hermosa Beach. And my friend had been saved in such a radical change in his life. So he said, why don't you come to a concert? And I said, where? And he goes to church. I thought, man, I don't want to see some grandma playing organ. And he says, no, it's a rock concert. And I said, you got to be kidding rock in church. Really? So I went with him. And the guy playing the guitar just at the end of his little thing, you know, anybody who want to receive Christ and nobody raised their hand, he goes, I know there's somebody here. And after a while, I realized if I don't raise my hand, we're not getting it out of here. So I did raise my hand. Somebody's going to have to do this. Well, then it got worse. And he said, all right, I knew there was somebody. Come on, and that wasn't part of it. You didn't say that. No, but I just said, okay, embarrassed, walked up there, but I prayed the prayer and said something happened, a radical change, unlike anything I'd experienced. And I thought, all right, I want to give my life to this. And that was Hope Chapel. And who's the pastor? Who was the pastor there? Ralph Moore. Yeah, Ralph Moore, who we came one of the great church planters in the world. And it has helped hundreds and hundreds of pastors plan churches through his books, materials, teaching. Yeah, you were right there at the very front of that very beginning. In fact, I met with Ralph just a couple of years ago, the first time since then. Wow. And we had lunch over in Hawaii. Yeah. And he remembered, you know, because he he'll talk in his book, you know, that some surfer helped him move. That was me. That was you. That was me and my friend. We had a van. So we put all this stuff and moved him into his first house. Really? Yeah, he had about maybe 70, 80 people in the church. Hope Chapel back then. It grew to be a large church. Well, yeah. And multiple locations. But we moved him in his house and did you really? And during that move, I said, I want to be a missionary. What do I do? And he said, well, you told him that. Yeah. Wow. And he just said, go study. I said, where? He goes, I don't care. Find a place. And years later, when I met him a couple years ago, I said, why didn't you send me to your denominational? Yeah, Bible college. And he said, because you were so pure, I didn't want to wreck you. I said, I knew God would lead you. So that was really funny, bad. So you end up in San Diego and Bible college? Yeah, we did. It was a God thing. Went to San Diego, went to Bible college. Yeah. So essentially, it was kind of like, you know, I got saved. What do you do next? Well, take this Jesus to people. Gonna be a missionary. Well, somebody said the hardest thing you could do for God is be a missionary. Well, a lady in church. Really? She challenged my manhood and I said, all right, I'll do it. That's my missionary call. Just a grandma in church. Just a grandma in church. Yeah, the hardest thing you could ever do is be a missionary. Be a missionary. I thought, man, I surfed up and down the coast. Yeah, big waves, many many places. Yeah, just give me a dime a cup of coffee. I'll go anywhere. Yeah. Had you met Karen then? When would it, where'd you meet her? We met in Bible college. That's what I thought. Yeah. And she's from San Diego. She is. Yeah. And so you're a Padres fan still today? Still today. Can you believe that just a few years in San Diego has wrecked you like that? It has. She's told Chargers fan too. Well, no, it actually prepared me because I'm a Charger fan. I'm a Padre fan who's they never get to prepare for disappointment. Now then I go to Peru and they got the worst soccer team in the world. So it's like, all right. But they do have waves. They do have good surf. I isn't the longest left in the world up there in the longest rideable wave in the world. Yeah, you can. Yeah, bigger than skeleton bag, all that stuff now. Yeah, you ride one wave two miles takes 45 minutes to walk back up the beach when you're dead. Wow. Yeah, man. You don't lose your board. Yeah. You want to lose your board. And then and so you you found out they had waves. So Peru worked on a number of different levels, right? Oh, yeah. Took me a while to have the fame to get a surf board though. They cost money. Yeah, that's true. So you go to Bible college, study and how did Peru come into the radar? Yeah, just through reading mission books, I read mission books. One of the ones that impacted me was through Gates of Splendor. Hmm. About five missionaries that went to the Alcat Indians in Ecuador. And I thought, man, I want to do something like that. Wow. I want to go reach the unreach people. People that have never heard the gospel. So somebody invited us to Peru and I thought they got a jungle. Yeah. And and waves. And I didn't know about the waves. Oh, okay. But they had a jungle. And I thought, all right, you know, your high school career wasn't such that you even knew where Peru was necessarily. No clue. Geography wasn't a major class. So where is it? How do you get there? Can we drive? Yeah. No, but went to Peru. And actually, when we saw the people, the lines and their faces, the worried looks, we just realized these people need Jesus. And God, if you send us back to Peru, we'll give our life to that one country. Wow. Long-term missions, long-term results, we felt. You know, now to say that, I want to bring that up and bring that up in our conversation right now. It seems to me, my children went on all of them, went on different short-term missions trips with good organizations. No, it's actually got their hands dirty. They didn't just go get photographs. And it did mark their lives. Okay. In other words, Brandon in Russia really marked him in his life. Bryce did an inner city basketball missions trip to Chicago. Marked his life, you know, on and on those kinds of things. But how effective is that versus somebody who plants? You know, is there a combination of those things? Are we are we dangerously doing some things out of the US when we just kind of send some people to do some photos and they come back and that's it. Absolutely. What's the, you need them both. You need somebody there. Okay. I call them cultural translators who can help. They understand both cultures and they can be the connector. But you also need the guys that come over and see, you get tunnel vision. If all you know is the United States, you have tunnel vision. Yeah. And it does somebody good to get out there and see what I call scratch and sniff. Right. It's not just, you know, porters and where some rich kid is looking at a poor kid. No, it's much more than that. Yeah. It's, they're actually seeing what the world lives like. I do a little teaching on the difference between a call and a burden. And you never know if you have a call or a burden until you go. Wow. And they're both good. They're both good. And when you go to a two week mission trip, you know, just a short term thing or 10 days, well, what's the first thing you talk about when you come home? You know, do you run to McDonald's kiss the ground? Thank God, I'm American. And when you talk, it is all you talk about was the traffic, the food. You think it was chicken, but you've never seen it that color before. You know, you go to a bathroom. Well, there is that. Yeah. You go to a bathroom and hey, there's no toilet paper. Wait, there's no toilet. Yeah, squat toilet. It's all that stuff. And is that all you talk about? No, you talk about the people or do you talk about people? And if you talk about people, if you don't care about the toilet and the food, all you see is the kids faces at the altar. It could be the beginning of a call. Yeah. And a burden is it has its place. A burden says, I don't think I could do that. Thank God they're there. I'm not. And a burden is literally means weight. See, if you go to the mission field with a burden because you feel like this compassion attack. I got to go do something. Yeah. You're just that. Everybody knows you don't want to be there. So you're burdened everybody. Okay. So this is this is back when I was a kid because I'm a church kid, right? And so when we grew up in what the youth camp, we go to youth camps and at the end of like every Friday night youth camp, we knew what was coming was you'd have a little bonfire. You have a pine cone piece of wood, whatever you throw it in there. And basically what you would say is God, how ever bad your will is for my life, however rough this is going to be. I'm willing. I'll go to other countries no matter how terrible. And in fact, is that I understand that somewhat misguided, right? Yeah. If you go and don't like being there, the people know it. Yeah. But they wonder what what it's not, but what you're saying is it's not wrong to go do a thing. And I would say to everybody's listening, you want to do some everybody should send their sons and daughters on a short term. Everybody. Everybody's going to change their lives. Change their. And what they're going yourself now. But they need to go with people who actually you do things. I know that your coordinators in Peru once the country opens back up. COVID's been tough. We'll talk about it in a minute. But I know they take people. It's not just a sightseeing trip. You're actually going to go hands on, help some people, put some wheelchairs together, do some work, paint something. I remember we took a team down there a number of years ago. We painted the inside of a church building. And then the next time we went to that same little church and we put carpet on and we built a stage. You know, it was actually hard work. You know, it's like we took a team of guys to believe. And I think of Eric Lau and his son Cameron. And you know, he was taking his son who was going headed into university at the time. And he goes, Cameron, we're going to take you to believe. And he's thinking palm trees and beaches. After about four days, he was worn out. He didn't have a single piece of clothing that hadn't been sweated out because it were working building a new church building down in a place called Dan Grieger, rural rough area and a place that needed help. And but man, that's the kind of thing to do. Well, the value of it is not that you painted or built a stage. The value is you worked side by side with some people that were different culture. And you got to know them. And you built friendship. And that friendship actually makes you stronger. Multicultural doesn't weaken you. It strengthens you. And when you actually build relationship, build friends over there, it helps. And we didn't just build a stage. We built a bridge. You built a bridge. Yeah. And they understood the states a little more. You understood them. Yeah. It's a, it's across cultural enrichment. Yeah. What about the call? You're talking about long. Let me finish the burden. Okay, the burden thing. That's good. The burden is when you come back. And if you're saying, thank God he's there. I'm not. What that means is he's making some sacrifices. I don't think I could make. But I'm going to, I got a burden for him. So I'll wake up and pray for him. Yeah. And if there's a mission offering, I'll give to the mission. Absolutely. Because, you know, I don't think I could do it. But thank God that guy's calling. There's a number of places like that for you to deny that we give to her. Like, you know what? That guy's called there. Yeah. And that's where we're going to plant seed. And if they're called there, they'll be for the people they know when you are there. Like Karen and I, we've been in pretty 30 years. We love where we live. Some people look at the sacrifice. With known you for a couple decades, you and Karen Judy and I and our dearest friends. And you do talk about Peru. And I remember Judy the first time she went there. I can't remember who it was. And she's like, Oh, the mountains are gray, you know, in Lima, you know. And she says really, because all she had ever heard from you and Karen is what an amazing country, how beautiful. And it is. It's a remarkable place. But I, but the way you talked about it is with such love and affection that she was already leaning that direction. She goes, Oh, there's some rough areas. We go, yeah, it's that's why they're here. You know, right? Well, Lima is a city of 10, 12 million people. It's amazing. It's massive. There's no rainfall. It hasn't rained in over 100 years. Measureable rain. Right. Measureable. You know, we'll get the mist every now and then. Yeah, occasionally. But it's just a dusty, dry, dirty city. Some of the worst traffic in the world. No question. Terrible traffic. But if you look at the traffic, you're not going to like it. If you think, well, there's traffic, because there's people in Jesus loves people. So let me go back to this, though. If I, you know, long term, long results, is that how you said it? What was it? Long term missions, long term results. Okay. So a lot of denominations and groups and organizations have sent people out and then they move them around. Yeah. Okay. You're three years here. Then you do a five-year station there. Then you move there and we're all, you know, has that been a positive or negative? It can be both missions changed and recently changed again. So if you look at early missions, the Hudson tailors, the William carries the youth movements. Yeah. They didn't move around. They went and buried themselves in a culture, buried themselves in a nation, became one with that culture, one with that nation. And the results was amazing because they took the time to build deep relationships with the people. Well, William carry worked 20 years in India without one convert. And after 20 years of showing them how to build farms and, you know, add value to those tree farms with, you know, the wood they got, how to build stuff with it. And after a while, some little Indian guy comes to him and says, why are you doing this? He says, I'm a Christian. He said, what's that? See, William carry earned the right to be heard. Equity. Yeah. And if you take the time, you, you're actually, they know when you really care. Yeah. So that's like our friend Terry Alder down in the air is in Mexico where he's funded soccer camps. Yeah. And in youth organizations. And then out of that, we've got a number of youth groups, young surfer groups going through maximize manhood. Every so often, they'll send me a photo. And it's, it's amazing to see that. But he built the equity. Yeah. Well, what happened is missions changed. And, you know, coming in the, what was it? J. Oswald Smith, the people's church, where how can people hear twice when they haven't heard once until every nation got heard? Well, everybody got into missions. They all wanted to do missions. But they were small churches and they couldn't afford a missionary. So they pulled together and created mission agencies. Okay. And mission agencies evolved in a short time to where they were, you pay, you pray, you stay a work way, were the experts. And the mission agencies, instead of doing the William carry, where you buried yourself in the culture, they created mission compounds. And the mission compounds was, I'm the missionary here, the national little fortresses. Well, it just became a separation. Yeah. Instead of that, bury yourself in the culture and that separation eventually turned into this unhealthy nationalism. Wow. Because the, the people said, well, you know, we really don't want the missionary. Just, we'll take the message, the missionary can go and we thought, yay, well, nationals, they're cheaper. Well, there's nothing cheap about missions. Missions is, it'll cost you. Yeah. It's sacrifice. It is. Yeah. So when the, when the transition happened, we created us and them, you know, which became almost tribal, our tribe, their tribe. They're right. They're the Russian church, where the American church, so the African church, so the Korean people who were there to do missions end up not working with each other because, hey, that's my turf or that's my thing earlier. Yeah. Well, we're, we're Americans, your nationals were. Wow. Okay. And then it became, she got loves to mix the salad. Yeah, he does. And we, we still, that was the day of Pentecost. Yeah. The day of Pentecost. Well, it's Babylon reverse. Babylon was where God separated the language. Pentecost is where God brought him back together. Come on, man. That'll preach right there. Yeah. You've probably done it. No, but it's good. That's good. Yeah. Write that down. All right. I'll do that. Next line, next lines or next men's summit. Yeah. Hey, this is Chris, producer of Brave Men. I want to take a moment right in the middle of this great conversation to let you know the Brave Men podcast is a production of the Christian Men's Network worldwide and the Global Fatherhood Initiative. Every 180 minutes, a Christian is killed for his faith. Every day 10 Christians are unjustly imprisoned. More than 25 facilities are attacked. Terrorist jihad groups attract 67 disaffected young men every day. Into this chaos, the Christian Men's Network is committed to bringing the gospel of Jesus Christ to men. In 2020, the C M N team pivoted energy and resources from going on site to reaching men online. The result was the tremendous impact made in one of the most persecuted nations on earth, the 2020 Vietnam Never Quit National Broadcast. Now we're ready to take it to the most dangerous nations in the world. The goal is a simple reproducible system with measurable results that will continue for decades to reach the darkest places on earth. Over the next five years, stand with seeing men to reach thousands of young men on their streets before they show up on your streets. It will help us continue to reach the lives of many men around the world. If you would like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and subscribe to this podcast and share it. That's the Christian Men's Network in Paul Lewis Cole. Now let's get back to this powerful interview between Paul and Rod Bergericka. Tell me about how did a Communo Devita, which is now one of the most significant churches in Latin America, for the people that don't, for guys that don't know where Peru is, it's South America. So you go Mexico, Central America, Panama, and in South America starts, and you've got Brazil there, which is almost half the landmass, which speaks Portuguese, everything else in Latin America, outside of British Guyana and Belize, all speak Spanish. So it's Spanish-speaking. You've got an older, if you will, cultural connection with Spain and with the Roman Catholic Church, and Peru is an older culture. It's twice the age of the United States. Yeah, easily. Lima is a city that's over 500 years old as a Spanish city, but another thousand years old as a pre-Inca city. Wow. Which was tribal back in those days. So you have runes all over Lima that go back to the time of Christ. Wow. That's amazing. So now you're called there. You get there, you're working with a group, you've got the stuff in the jungle, and then a word from the Lord comes to you to start a church, Community Devede, which is now, as I mentioned, highly significant, you're doing incredible ministry, helping pastors create powerful churches all over Latin America. But how did Community Devede start? When we were doing the church planting, terrorism came in, the Civil War, violence, Peru is one of the most violent nations on Earth in the 80s. Wow. And we had just moved into that. In fact, it's interesting because God sent us into the mess. We went there, and then it got violent, incredibly violent, and incredibly poor. You know, we had one year over a million percent inflation. So it was an intense time. And Karen and I often look back saying, you know, well, God sent us in the middle of that, and it's been with us. But the more terrorism came in, the more violence came in, the less we could travel, it was unsafe. And the more I began to look at the youth in the country, and there was no youth in the church, because the church... Well, the church was traditional, it was old. One of the things that happened is when the missionaries left and it became a national church. See, that always puts somebody in a time warp, or a matter when we feed off each other. Cultures feed off cultures, and we learn from each other. But the church began to, what I call, smelled like grandma's house. It got stuck in the past. It was a 30-year time warp. Wow. And in other words, if kids didn't have a tie-on and didn't have it girls didn't have dresses, if girls at warpans weren't allowed in church, you know, and men that... And this is when, this is the 80s. This is the 80s. The 80s. So when I... When I realized, okay, this isn't cultural, this is their stuck. And I came out of the Jesus movement. I thought we can get kids in the church. Well, that's when all the churches, I'd go to them and say, I can help you get youth in your church. We don't do it that way. It doesn't work here. I got so tired of people saying it doesn't work here. That just felt the Holy Spirit said, show them. So we started reaching out to youth, which goes with the story. I know you're trying to lean into. We got a... We had a radio program, right? We had a radio program. We were the first to bring Christian rock music into the country, which the church did not like. But the kids really did. The youth did. So we started getting... It's now today we call praise and worship. Yeah. Exactly. Electric guitar and church. But we were getting so many kids saved. I thought... Wow. If we can just send these kids to churches, they'll stop talking about my music and my radio program. But the kids kept coming back saying, no, it's different. They won't let us in. They won't let us in. Wow. And that's why I realized how you win them is how you keep them. And we needed to keep them in a different kind of church. So we started a church. And it actually happened because there was a little underground punk rock group in Peru. Kind of had a local following called vomit. And one day the vomit hasn't throw up, okay? The mom of the lead singer called the radio station saying, could you talk to my son? Wow. He really needs help. So I went over and I'm talking to the lead singer of vomit, little kid named Ricardo. And after about two hours, very philosophical kid, you know, a smart, smart, I just said, why don't you be part of the solution? Not the problem. He said, what's that? And given my testimony, he ended up receiving Christ within a week. I had all of vomit in my living room. And I thought I can't send these kids to any church. No, this is the 80s punk scene. So if they don't let girls wear pants, these guys are not getting in with spiky hair and purple stuff. Whatever they. Yeah. So basically my church started with vomit. They became my worship team. And did they really? Yeah. That's just that is the best story of change their name to Hosanna. And it was cool back in those days. But I mean, this is seriously. Yeah. That is what that's a radical change. If you've got a bunch of guys. And the punk rock scene, people have to remember what that was like. It was highly rebellious. And really violent in some ways, like acting out their rage, a lot of rage was in punk rock. And so for a group like that to so radically change, it will change their name to Hosanna. That is not just a lifestyle change. That's a heart change. Yeah. From the inside out. And you begin to see that happen in people's lives. And well, that's where I say we didn't go to Peru to start a church. Yeah. We went through to plant churches. Until the Holy Spirit spoke to us said you have to show them what a healthy life giving church looks like. So we started our church. And today that's why we exist. Yeah. Well, you're doing that all over Latin America. Well, nobody can tell me it doesn't work. Yeah, exactly. Because we've got it working in a Latin country. Your dad had the saying that influence, it's wisdom to use, criminal to sell. Yeah. And we understand, okay, God has given our church some influence in the Latin world. So I would pray God for wisdom to leverage that toward the kingdom and help churches grow. And then you met my dad a number of years ago. So this would have to be almost 22, 24 years ago, something like that. Yeah, 20, two years ago. Yeah. And so, and you started discipling and ministering them in. You always had a heart for that. Anyway, this gave you, if you will, you had a passion. And this gave you a pattern. Yeah. You started a red day on brace, part of christian men's network. Um, on Bridal Maximum, you've taken that disciple thousands of men across Peru and now the entire Latin America, Spain, speaking world. And I remember we were down there a few years ago. And we honored the first responders. We honored the fireman. That was a remarkable time. And you had hundreds of people in the first responders except Jesus Christ. It was out of men's conference. Yeah. That's incredible. We actually had the sitting president of Peru in that service. As we honored the firefighters, you were there. Um, some of the guys had pressed in and had made a number of others. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing time. And so tell me what, what has happened out of discipling men? How has that changed commuter divida? How has that helped transform other churches? What's the importance of that, Robert? Well, it puts strength in our church when we began to mentor men, commuter divida was about 500 members. We went from 500 to 5,000 in five years. Wow. It just began to grow because strengthening when you've taken the focus on men. Women actually began to bring their husbands and, you know, you've got to take this course. Right. And it's like now wherever we go in any country in South America, wherever they're doing the curriculum, the women are coming saying, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for coming. And just give a pattern to the church, disciple men. Yeah. When you get the man, you get the family. And when you reach a heart of a man, you reach the soul of a nation. Yeah. And when men change, everything changes. Exactly. And it begins to deal with some of the issues the, if you will, endemic issues within cultures all over the world, not just Peru, in which fatherlessness always breeds poverty, fatherlessness always breeds dysfunctional issues in youth, anger, rage, discontent, no identity, no future. And so they're easy prey for other philosophies that are anti Christ, anti God philosophies. And they're also, if you will, because of the poverty issues, it becomes a vicious cycle then of children being born, no dad, no future in the streets. And essentially where you were headed, if you will, in your life, when a guy invited you to a concert in her most her most of each California. Exactly. Yeah. Amazing to think about now of just that one guy inviting you to a function at a church. And how now years later, tens of thousands of people's lives have been impacted. Anything we do like that has, has spiritual significance and has the eternal value. Every single life is important. Tell me about Hill 304. Results matter. Results matter. Hill 304 is World War One. And World War One was an incredible war to study because it's the first time modern warfare hit modern technology. Yeah. Before that, airplane, well now that airplanes were just like rustic back then. They didn't think they would work. But before that, the strongest nations on earth were France, Spain, England, Russia. And this new country, Germany coming up. But France, who had one of the most powerful armies, the generation before them was Napoleon, where he literally marched men in blue uniforms in a straight line with such discipline, they struck fear in the enemy as they saw those people marched. The problem is when Germany invaded France, the French marched in their blue uniforms toward the German soldiers, but the machine gun was invented. Wow. So marching in a line with blue uniforms, you know, disciplined, it took them a while to learn to duck. It just took them a while to learn, change has happened, and we can't fight this the way we used to. Yeah. So Hill 304 was a hill just outside of a village called Vernd in France. Hmm. And it was a hill that the Germans had determined they needed to take that hill because they can put their guns up there and protect their supply lines. The French determined we don't want to give that hill to the Germans. So the Germans took it, the French retook it, the Germans retook it, the French retook it. Wow. The Germans took it, the French retook it. Wow. They say a million men died on Hill 304. It got so bad, it was one of the longest cruelest battles in history, in the history of warfare. I'm both sides. I'm talking about a million men from Germany and France. Yeah. And it got so bad when your commanding officer said, take the hill, the soldiers would sink way steep in the rotting bodies of their comrades months before them. Jesus. The battle lasted a year. The sad thing about the history of Hill 304 is after the war was over, they realized it was an irrelevant battle. They didn't have to fight it. And the lesson of Hill 304 is how long do we keep throwing men against that mountain to die without learning our lesson, irrelevant battles? How long do we keep doing the same thing because that's the way we've always done it without learning the lesson. And that's the way it goes in missions. Missions is changing, results matter, but we keep throwing methods of a generation past that worked then, but it's changed. Yeah. And we need to adjust. Yeah, we do. We need to adjust. Now, you've been doing round tables, you and our great friend who speaks quite often at Lion's Road, Pastor Deilo Shields, and along with the partnership with men from across North America around the world, you've been doing round tables for churches and pastors to be able to rethink church going forward. Tell me about those, because it's amazing results. Well, it's basically God wants your church to grow, so could defending what doesn't work. Wow. You know, we hold on to the past, you know, because we own it, so we defend it. Yeah, what happens finds us, somebody actually asked me in one of our round tables, they said, what's the biggest obstacle to success in the future? And I said, it's success in the past. Wow. Because we want to go back to the glory days. We want to go back to the good old days, the way it was. And the good old days were amazing, but instead of trying to go back to a revival that happened in the 80s, like Argentina, for example, yeah, Argentina had this massive revival in the 80s, Carlos Enacondi and his friend of ours. Incredible. Massive. But they were four hour meetings, you know, it was done a certain way, done a certain way. Well, today, he was every day of the week. And 15, when I think of that revival and remember it, they were having service every day, multiple. Yeah. And what happens today is churches in Argentina are trying to reproduce that revival by doing a four hour service. And the kids are saying, we don't want four hour services anymore. We're not doing that. So in Argentina, if you're 60 and older, it's 35% born again. If you're 25 and younger or 20 and younger, it's under four percent. So it's not reaching the next generation. It worked for one, but it's not for the next. The same thing happened in Korea. If you're 65 and older, you were born under the young guichou, you know, the prayer mount and influence. You were born under that 65 and older, it's you're 40% born again, but 25 and younger, it's under four percent. So we're throwing people at a mountain with an old method. It's hill three or four. It's hill three or four. And it's not working. So we've got to just what works for this generation. Every generation has a key. Well, I've looked at your curriculum, as you know, you and Daryl and others have written and you've got some incredible pastors who are going around the world mentoring other pastors. Yeah. If I'm not mistaken, is it the first chapter or something about don't be afraid to change? Exactly. Don't be afraid to change. Is that? Yeah. It's quick defending what doesn't work. God wants your church to grow. And if, you know, don't be afraid to think about new methods, keep the message gone, but new methods will work. Well, Colossians 117, Jesus has to be the center. Yeah. And I think even the Jesus people movement that you were in and that I was in a few years before you, we got off into some things. We got off into, oh, it must be loud music and guitars. And then it ends up being loud music and guitars that's not celebrating Jesus, not bringing people into the church, just bringing them into concerts. It's like, I think it's a cool thing for a church. Ron Loose was talking about this the other day because he had done a bunch of research on it. I think climbing walls, stuff for youth is awesome. But what happened, what's happened in a lot of places, we've got so often to that we've forgot to disciple our youth. We've not presented them the gospel of Jesus Christ other than just a lifestyle change. So what happens is right now in the United States, 93% of the 13 year olds are in churches today will be gone by the time they're 23. Now that's Barna research, pure research. That is, that's an actual stat. Then we can't deny that stuff. We have to look at it and say, okay, we've got to change the way we're reaching young people. Yeah, no, no one, whether you're 13, 30, or 60, no one can have an encounter with Jesus and not come out changed. Come on, man. So it's present Jesus. It doesn't matter the magnet you used to bring them to church, but once through there, we present Jesus, we disciple the people that have been there. And that's what you do. You've built such a great team of Communion of Davidia, but what I see is I see young people coming in. You've got a very young church. Well, you've got a mix, you've got an amazing mix, you've got older people, seniors, gray hairs who are excited about the young people. A healthy church is not a young church. A healthy church is not just old church. A healthy church is a generational church. Come on, man. Where you've got the whole family worshiping together, grandparents, parents, kids. Well, I'm looking at young people in your church when I've been there and watched them young people seeing their taking notes, writing things down, you know, 15, 16 year olds, you know, into what's happening, not just out of peer pressure, but out of, man, I want to follow Christ. Yeah. Yeah. And give them a purpose, give them some, they want to change the world. The next generation, millennials, on down to, you know, the generations that that's there, they want to change the world. They really want to make a difference. Having a conversation with Dr. Robert Barriger, pastor of Community Vita and Lima Peru and Robert and I've been dear friends for many years. And the work they've done has touched nations around the world. You've been a model for doing church. You work with other churches in the community. You're very inclusive. You're very involved in the community. Tell me about, I just want to finish this time together. Tell me about what's happened during COVID because Peru, the last stat that I read, just recently, Peru has the highest percentage per capita death rate of any nation in the entire world. Yeah. We went through intense time with COVID. How did the church respond? How did you respond as the church? It was tough. First of all, because in our own church, we have lost hundreds of members of our church to go in hundreds. Jesus. And it's a sad way to go because you can't be with the family. You can't bury them. Very, very sad. You can't go hug people. You can't do a memorial in the beginning, especially when people went to the hospital and died of COVID. They just got the ashes back three days later. And they said, you know, you sent your person to the hospital. You couldn't say, go buy to him. Here he is. You know, ashes. But we asked the question, okay, heal through for what we used to do isn't working. How can we help people? And we minister to the fire department. We minister to the army, the police in the nation. And we went into strict lockdown for months. And in that strict lockdown, the police and the army and the fire department were on the streets. And we thought, okay, we can't get out, but they're out. When you say strict lockdown, you know, lockdown for a lot of people who had, quote, unquote, quarantine, right? Yeah, we were locked down. We were quarantined. But I still went over and, you know, bought bread at Whole Foods or whatever. You know, or if there was bread for the first month, couldn't buy toilet paper. But you guys were actually locked in curfews. Nobody on the streets. We were allowed out for one hour or four months to go to walk one per year. No, it was intense. It still is going on as we're doing this podcast. But we just, our friends and the police, they were on the streets. And we said, can you bring some food to people that need it? We'll give it to you. Wow. And the police said absolutely. In fact, they started giving permits to our people to travel with them. Really? So the amazing thing is we do our servolution, which is, you know, what a lot of churches do. We, you know, we give without anything. Servolution. It's a, it's amazing. It's a serving revolution. It's just, yeah, revolution of service. And our great friend, Dino Rizzo was probably the progenitor of that when he was passed from the Baton Rouge. And now with Ark, it is the most amazing concept. Churches all over the world do that now. It's just community outreach. Go help people. Go help people. There's no return to you. It's not evangelism. Just tell people. So we, we would, on an average year before COVID, we reached about 90,000 people a year face to face, which was amazing. But in the year 2020, from March to December, not even the full year, we reached 231,000 people in lockdown, in lockdown without income. I don't know how you guys did extreme poverty. Yeah, well, they didn't have income. Your income went down. I mean, you guys got hammered from all kinds of directions. I don't know how you did it, Robert. It was amazing. And you had people in the streets, the police gave you permits. So you brought food to people who literally had nothing. Yeah, Joyce Meyer Ministries helped us a little bit, sending in some food and other friends, you know, they said, hey, you're serving people, you know, they would send an offering. Somehow we multiplied that. And it really wasn't that much. But we're able to multiply it and get it to extremely poor people who had nothing to eat in their house, sometimes for days, until we showed up with a bag of groceries for them. Wow. So in this year already in 2021, up till June, you know, from January to the end of May, we reached over 92,000 people just face to face. So what's the website? How can we help? And how can people get financially? Because I mean, that's going to stir a burden up in our hearts. Do we give it through? Life missions.com. Life missions.com. Yeah, we appreciate every gift. We'll multiply it. And you guys do multiply it. It's obviously with my own eyes. And thank you to Pastor Dale and Terry O. Shields, they're in Geithersburg, Maryland for their, you know, ongoing for years and years being part of that and other great friends of Whitlow's and others who have been a part of it. It's an amazing thing. And really the story, I don't, you know, it's kind of like, you know, you could, people I'm sure have told you, you should write a book about it. I don't know, the book would be so thick. Yeah, you know, I don't know if you could write about all the different stories. Well, the, yeah, it's we, we actually get to do a lot of ministry and help people. Yeah. And people often ask, what are you doing? And it's, I don't know where to start. So we just don't tell it. It's well, you've got a, you've got a home for dysfunctional young ladies. Yeah, suicidal, suicidal, that is remarkable. And that started, I think that didn't start with the gift from Brian Houston and his church, Hillsong Church in Sydney, Australia. And tell me about that just real quick, because you got a generous running that. Yeah, my daughter runs it. It's my rescue girls that are in there. Actually, believe me, they've been sexually abused, 100% usually by a parent. Sometimes, you know, it's sad that dad tragic. And these girls, they've seen things in the past that no girl should ever see. Yeah, we can't change their past, but we can change their future. Come on. So we, it's called the Grace House. We have an orphanage where we rescue kids that have, you know, been on the streets and give them a good future. So, you know, I've got to tell you this, I've gone to a couple, I mean, maybe three or four graduations at Grace House, where young ladies, their, their families come, whatever family they have, their friends come to this graduation out there at the Grace House. And they start telling their stories. And I mean, is this impossible not to cry? I cry every time. Everyone is just amazing. And the beauty of it is, when these young ladies come out, is it a nine-month program, 12 months? Depends on whatever they need. Okay. And so when they come out of there, they have, they have tools. They know what they know job tools. They've got the ability to get on computers. They've got the ability to do stuff cook, all these different things that you guys train and teach. But they also have the depth of the Word of God in them that has reformed their minds. Romans 12, too. It's changed the way they think, right? And they come out of their equip to go back into culture to be change agents in culture. It's a remarkable thing. I had Barbara Preston. I know put a kitchen in there, an incredible kitchen. Other people have put different parts of the buildings together. And this is something that's an ongoing, you guys are still doing this even through COVID. You've had people out there. It's been difficult, but you guys have kept it going. And it's something we can all be involved in. So that's life missions dot com. Is that right? Yes. Okay. Life missions dot com. And you can get a hold of us here at Christmas Network. And you're a part of the board of Christmas Network. You help guide us, lead us, correct me. That kind of stuff. We're just friends. Yeah. And so we've got lines we're coming up, lines were global summit where we talk about all the strategies going on around the world, whether it's Alex Matala in Uganda, Eddie Leo in Indonesia, where he's taken a million men through maximize manhood. The different things happening in different parts of the world, we get I mean, I get photographs almost every day from different guys. Hey, this group we did this group. Hey, you know, here's what's happening here. But what you've done in Peru is really an amazing, shining example, a model that people can say, okay, this is the way to do long-term missions with long-term results. And you've impacted a culture. It's quite remarkable talking with Robert Paragur, a community of Vita, a life missions dot com. And, you know, God bless you Rob, loving that. Love you. Thanks. What amazing opportunity to have Pastor Robert Paragur on episode 100? 100. Wow. This is program 100 of the Brave In podcast. Yes. That's amazing. Yeah. And what a guy to have on there, you know, kind of like a like a similar guy, like he's amazing. What a great interview, right? Yes. You know, it was, it was, they were just flying through town. I said, hey, we got to go in the studio, sit down and just talk about this stuff. And like I did, so I did the open explaining some stuff that we didn't even get to. I mean, this guy's lived such a large life. You probably have, you know, you're from San Diego, you know, the kind of the surfing community and stuff out there. Yes. You know, he was one of the original professional surfers back in the 70s in Santa Monica, Pacific Ocean Park, all that stuff. I don't think we even talked about it much. You didn't? Yeah. But, but he's, he was one of the guys that kind of one of the start of like the big surf culture, you know, skateboarding, surfing, dog town, Z boys, and all that kind of stuff. Wow. Yeah. So he's lived quite a large life. It's amazing. Yeah, pivoted. And what's amazing also is how many people along his path told him he would make it. Well, I mean, even a guy in his Bible college. Really? Yeah, one of his professors goes, yeah, you might want to go try to do something else. Dude, seriously, really? Yeah. Man, man. Yeah, it's kind of like how do you like me now? Yeah, it's really. He needs to just show up one day, go, hey, what's up? Yeah, absolutely. All of that, you know, we have one of the most significant churches in all Latin America. Yeah. Yeah. Of course, he didn't go there to do that. He really went there just to go to the jungles and get kids saved. Wow. Yeah, you know, I think, I think God surprises people who aren't looking for things like that. Yeah, right? Yeah. Have you noticed that? Yeah, he always exceeds expectations, right? But have you noticed that guys who aren't, the guys who are looking to be on a cover of charisma or whatever? Yeah. Or be on the front of this or you know, walk around with their glasses. That's what used to say. I don't think you'd do that anymore, but you're sure ready with your scans. You know, I think God surprises the guys who are humble. Yeah. Yes, that's a, is that makes sense? Yes. I totally agree with that. Yeah. I think the guys that are like going for something like, hey, we're going to be big in this field or whatever it is. And I don't mean you don't go after it in a business sense. I think if you're going to build a business, scale it, man. Make it huge. And I think you have to be the same way in ministry. I think you have to say, you know, to me, one of the biggest cop-outs Chris is saying, well, whoever should have been there showed up. Well, dude, no, what happened is you just didn't make any phone calls. Wow. You know, yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've walked in. Some guy says, well, you know, not too many guys here, but you know, the ones that we're supposed to be here are here. I'm like, dude, you know, think about the cost per person. And I don't discount that it could be one guy who changes the future of the world. It's the next president of Argentina or whatever. Yeah. Right? On the other hand, too often what we do is we don't do the work. No. And the beauty of Robert Barriger's, he actually dug in, did the work. And then all this stuff happens and people go, man, how do you build a church like that? Well, you start by taking food to people day and night, doing the orphanage stuff. When nobody sees you, nobody knows what's going on. You're out in the jungle. I mean, it's, they had some tough stuff, man. You lived in this little, the first time I met them, you know, with the leave to their apartment, small little apartment, just they everything went into the ministry. Well, you know, they don't have a big house now, but at least you can walk around with three or four people. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's just like that, but that wasn't why they were there. They were there to reach people, man. I think that God surprises people who aren't looking for the next thing. Yeah. That's really good. And, you know, just with you saying that, it just makes me think of something that God's personally been dealing with me on in the reality of the connection to dying to yourself so that humility can actually take root. You know, and oftentimes I don't think people my age, at least, really think about that aspect of allowing humility to come. You know, you have to die. Yeah. I think it, I think maybe your age group, because you're under 30, you know, maybe dying to self for your age group is going off Instagram for a week. Yeah. Start there. Yeah. But also, I think dying to self, uh, Chris, to me, because I'll watch you in that, in how you've grown over the last couple of years, is being more honest with stuff with yourself, with others, about yourself to yourself. Yes. That's dying to self, dying to self is not just crushing. No. You know, God doesn't want you to just be crushed. There is a crushing of the olives that makes the olive oil, you know, the oil and all that sort of stuff. But you know, I understand those pictures, but too often we take it to the point of, you know, getting crushed to where we no longer have any kind of drive. Yeah. That's not what it's about. You know, if you go to drive, God put a drive in you to go build something, build it. Yeah. It's just it's about Jesus. Yeah. So always has to come back to Colossians 117. He's the center of all things. Everything was made for him, of him, by him, for him, and without him. And then it says, and because of him, all things are held together. Amen. He's the magnetic force and energy that holds all creation together. Yeah. Yeah. Without magnetic energy, nothing gets held together. Do you know that? Yeah. So good. Yeah. You know what that is? It's called light. Mm hmm. Light is the source that holds all creation together. Now you preach it. No. That's a good sermon right there. But it is good for you because light always defeats darkness. Yes. And he came as a light. And what is that? It's magnetic energy. Yeah. You know that your earth has a magnetic resonance and it's a 7.8 megahertz or 7.8 hertz. And everybody has one. And so when you get off, when you get ungrounded, let's say, that's part of that. And you're off culture and you're out of sorts. And when you come to faith in Christ and as a follower of Christ, you get into the magnetic polarity of his energy. So and that's not new age, man. That's a word of God. That's light and what he created and what holds us together. Colossians 117. So good stuff, man. All that coming out of Robert Berger. But he digs that stuff. Yeah. I've heard him talk about things. We didn't talk about it in this podcast. We'll do more with him because he's doing amazing work. Go back and listen to past episodes we've had with Robert Berger. He's not the first time we've had him on there. That's a Robert Berger. Especially his revelation teaching. I love that. Dude, that's that deal we did. That wasn't that long ago. It wasn't. And we did a piece on the book, the revelation of Jesus Christ, which the book of Revelation is called. Yes. The actual title is the revelation of Jesus Christ, ridden by a guy that they put on an island, John, that they thought no one would ever hear from again. Yes. And I love chapter one of that where it says on the Lord's day he was worshipping. Pastor Robert, I'm just going to throw this out there. Will you please write a book? Oh, come on, man. Will you please write a book? English, Taylor's still listening to this. Yeah, you're not the first guy. You're not the first guy. He goes, well, I'm called to Latin America. Yes, but we're called to receive your revelation. We're called to call you. We're calling you out, bro. Yes. Even Peter went over to the Gentiles for a little bit. Come on, man. Yeah. He needs a vision with a bunch of animals. Right? Like, what is this? What are these animals in the sheet? It's about writing a book, Robert. Yes. That would be great. We should send him, we should send him like a photo of, you know, animals in a sheet of vision. Bro, a division. Yes. I'll write a book in Revelation. That was great stuff. Hey, thanks for reading with us today on the Christian men's network production of Brave Men podcast. This is a ministry in which we desire to see the hearts of men change because when you change a heart of a man, you've changed a soul of a nation. We believe that when you built strong men, you built strong families and strong families make strong churches. And we believe the church is a hope of the world. We are a Christ-centered church-centric ministry. And it's great to have you along with us today on Brave Men. I'm Paul Lewis Cole with me. He's been our producer, Chris Shields. And I pray that your day is awesome. Remember hope is alive. Hope has a name. Hope's name is Jesus. Love you guys. Blessings. You just experienced Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian men's network. Connect with Paul at cmn.man or write to him at Paul at cmn.man.