Brave Men S2E35: Rob Carman - Pastoring: Sweat, Depression and Leadership

I first saw Rob Carman's name in a book my father wrote in which my dad talked about spiritual unemployment. And he learned it from a man named Rob Carman in Albuquerque, New Mexico. A few years later, I met Rob and I thought, man, this guy's larger than life. Brian, he can tell a story, you know, he hits everybody in a front row. If you're in a front row of an event, you're going to get hit. Literally hits. You're going to get hit. Not metaphorically. No, it's not just a, this is what's the opposite of metaphorical, a physical, physical. Yeah. It's a physical hit. You're going to get hit if you're in the front row. If you're trant, we were in Russia a few months ago in St. Petersburg with our Krishnamen's network guys in St. Petersburg. And he hit the translator so many times that the guy showed up the next day with pads like football pads on his shoulder. That was hilarious. So he walks around a lot. Is that what he does? He doesn't stand still. He just walks. You're going to love this interview because here's the thing, you know, you talked about, we talked about a few weeks ago about how we interview people and we get things out of them. They don't necessarily talk about it. Yeah, you do. Yeah. So this man can tell great stories and he talks about different great people who have lived and he comes up with great messages. I told him, I said, Rob, I want to talk about you and your story because this guy went through eight was, became very successful at a very difficult start and then went into a total burnout ended up in the hospital for three and a half days. Wow. I'm going to tell you at the last global summit that that that C.M.N. had, which was the formal of 19. I was able to attend and after one of the sessions, Paul, you had box lunches available. Yeah. And so you'd leave the session and out in the hallway, there were tables of box lunches and I grabbed a box lunch and I knew nobody. I came to meet to spend time with you and stuff and I knew no one and I'm a little bit of fish out of water. I wasn't, I'm very outspoken, but I get in certain elements and I turn into a little inside person. I don't know what it is. Like returning something at the store, I get very shy and I have to return something at like the gap. Dude, that is hard to believe, man. That's as seriously as hard to believe. I can't. Well, but Brian, that's why you have people. Yes, I have people. I go to marshals. I can't return something. I get very scared. You have people, do you returns? Do a podcast for millions of people, no problem there. So anyway, I grabbed my box lunch, Paul and I don't know where to sit. I go to this little room and there's round tables at seat haters, so I just find a place and I'm weighing. I want to sit by myself in the corner, go on an interact with people. He said you'd be corner of a round table anyway. Corner of the room at around. OK, I get you. Bottom line is this has gone on way too long in the story. What in line is, I sit next to this table, next to this guy, and it's Rob Carman. And how did that happen? What kind of a God wink was that? And I get to sit next to Rob Carman. Was that a product placement right there? Yes it was. God wink. God wink it was. It was. I used that because it's not a coincidence. It was a God thing. You know, we had the greatest conversation and I really enjoyed spending time with Rob. And we just sat there and talked through our sandwiches and chips. And I just wanted to say that just I'm so glad that God put me in that seat that day. And I can sit next to Rob and talk with him one on one. He's on our internet. It's very for Christmas network. And here's the thing, you know, and that's why I tell you guys, you've got to be at our global summit. We do it every fall in Dallas. If you go to cmn.men, depending on when you're listening to this, cmn.men, you'll see when the next one is. One of the greatest guys in the world and here's what one of the things that is my takeaway just for me personally, Brian, is when somebody like yourself becomes a friend with another guy, I find great joy. And so cmn.men, you'll find when the next one is and you'll meet some of the greatest guys in the world. And now here you and Rob are, I know you talk on a regular basis. And so why wasn't he in like a green room or a fancy room eating his lunch? Yeah, well, we don't do that. And we don't do, we don't do fancy. And then everybody's in the green room. That's a bottom line. So in our events, everybody's in the green room. So when TD Jakes was there a couple of years ago, he sat in the role right behind me with the guys. And when Steven Mansfield was there, he sat with the guys and no matter who we're all just men and we're there to get a job done to change the world by discipling men. So when you hear Rob Carmen today, what you're about to hear is something that will begin to pivot some things in your life. I believe there will be a revelation word as you listen to Rob Carmen's interview today, how he went from nothing to something to nothing to today where he's one of the world's top leaders speaking into the lives of leaders all over the world. Today, Rob Carmen on Brave Men. It's Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole, wisdom and courage for the journey. I'm talking with Rob Carmen, my friend who is ahead of Victory World Missions. And Dr. Carmen, you travel all over the world doing leadership. So I would imagine this came out of, you know, you probably had a pretty good situation growing up. You probably went to the best universities, started, you know, just got in with a big church in Albuquerque and then bam, there you are going around the world speaking leadership. Is that the way that happens? Well, not quite. Not quite. I mean, you always have, yeah, you know, yeah, I mean, the Bible said, do not despise that they are small beginnings. So there's a lot of small beginnings and struggles and work and difficulty and ups and downs and it's like, you know, I always use the old story from the 1920s of Jim Corman, who was the world heavyweight boxing champion. And they asked him one time, they said, which punch knocked you out? He said, well, that's simple. He said, it's the one I didn't see. So to me, there's always the punch in life. It's the one you don't see that you don't anticipate, but you'll always get out. Yeah. And that's someone that will knock you out. Yeah, it's, it's, it's what was the, what was the boxer's name, the young guy that Mike Tyson. Yeah. Mike Tyson said, everybody's got a plan until you get hit in the face, everybody's got a plan. And so your plan, you and your wife, Ginger and family, you ended up coming out of Redwood City, California, right? Yeah. Redwood, I guess I grew up. Yeah. Redwood City. So you're, is that, is that considered South Bay? East Bay? What is that? Well, I was told people, Redwood City is right in between San Francisco and San Jose. So right off, I weigh one oh, right in between, you know, just a little bit, just a little bit south of San Mateo. Yeah. San Mateo County. Yeah. So sort of South Bay area, San Francisco area, Redwood City and Italian heritage, Italian heritage. Yeah. Yeah. Which, an incredible group of people that came from Italy that settled in that whole area. Pioneers, really. They were, they were, in fact, my great uncle, Uncle Rindo. He used to work for a Gianini and Gianini is the one that started the Bank of Italy. And he worked, he was a teller when it was called the Bank of Italy that began the Bank of America. Really? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So all of that came out of an Italian heritage. And then I remember with the Stagnaros and, you know, all the odos, all those guesses, that all. Oh, yeah. Oh, they had to go. Yeah. Yeah. Bigger San Francisco. They had Dan that, uh, in Fisherman's Wharf. Yeah. They had the director on right there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, where I grew up in Santa Cruz, you know, just over the hill from, from where you grew up. Mm-hmm. You know, it was Stagnaros had the, had the, uh, out in the Fisherman's Wharf and, and had the restaurants and, um, an incredible heritage, right? Huge Italian heritage in, in the Bay Area. Yeah. So, there were some used to tell them when she was, if she grew up right there, um, in the Italian district, uh, of San Francisco. And, uh, she said when she was a little girl, they would go to the theater and they would raffle tickets. Really? And, you got, if you got the ticket, you would get a free lot down in the Redwood City, San Carlos, San Mateo area, they were giving away property lots. No. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's amazing. So you came out of there and but you ended up in Albuquerque building a church and I want to get into that and in some of those things but where did you really end up? Where did you tip over and to really becoming a passionate follower of Jesus Christ? Well, it was in New Mexico. You know, I grew up in a Catholic background, Italian Catholic background, you know, went to mass, the whole thing. But none of it, he went to Catholic school for a short time, public school, then Catholic school. But it never, it never registered. None of it did. I only got to New Mexico and that's when a good friend of mine that I had named Paul, Paul Craig, the real tall guy invited me to a Baptist church and being raised Catholic, never going to anything outside of a Catholic church. Oh, no, you would have been, it would have been a betrayal. Oh, yeah, well, you have to promise it. You know, we always thought, we always looked down on and you know, Paul, so I asked him, well, what time does mass start? Well, it's not mass, you know, so he brings me to the Sunday school class, which I didn't know the different June of Sunday school class and the service. And so that, that was Albuquerque that she could really eat now and said, no, no, no, now we're going into the service. I thought, well, what was that? And so I sat on the back row and the preacher, I just don't remember his last name, Reverend Storm, and he was sweating while he was preaching. I never saw anybody do that. And you know, yelling and he gave what we would call the traditional alter call, every head bowed, every eye closed. Yeah, wow, to the meat. And I just glared at the guy I thought I was under conviction. Yeah, but there was no way I was going to respond. Absolutely none because the conviction, you know, conviction of doing one thing, it can actually agree to you. Yeah. And so I walked out of there and I looked at him and I said, I'll never step foot in this place again. Well, six months later, I got saved all by myself, but it was the words he spoke. I had never heard anybody say invite Jesus into your heart. So I did all by myself. And I knew three things instant, but I knew number one that Jesus was who he said he was. I thought he was an historical figure. I said, number two, I knew that he was in my heart. And number three, I knew that if I died, I'm going to heaven. Wow. Now, whoa, whoa, okay. So this happened. I mean, where did this happen? You're in Albuquerque now. You'd move there for business, right? No, my parents actually moved there. Your parents, they moved there because they got fed up with the congestion of the Bay Area. So we ended up as a family, all of a sudden my sister, you know, she was very interested in California. So we moved out there. Now I'm 20 years old. I'm living with a buddy of mine, you know, in up in the mountains. I was in the mountains. I was outside of Albuquerque, a little town called to Harris. And I just, I was by myself. And I just remember those words. I was kind of at a very low point of life. And so I reached out and I said, geez, I meant it. I really meant it coming into my heart. And instantly, really something happened. And I knew anything about the Bible. And my, my mom had an old family by, you know, those big, yeah, like family, bibles. And I dug it out of the garage. And I flipped it open and it hit Romans chapter eight. No, there's therefore now no condemnation to those that are in crisis. And the words leaked, literally leaked off the page. And I thought, I've never, I mean, it's like life was coming into me. And it was just having with such a revolutionary experience. And then immediately, I began to find out, where can I find people like this? You know, I'm trying to seek out somebody that's had this. And so they told me about a Catholic prayer meeting. You know, these was the heyday of the charismatic renewal. Yeah, I came right into the university, came across the country. So it was a Friday night in the gymnasium of our Lady of Ascension. And I just walked in 700 young people all my age, a guitar in the middle, everybody standing up and their worshiping God. And I walked in and I thought, this is it. This is it. You know, I mean, I just, I just started finding and connecting and finding and connecting with, with, with that. And told everybody that I knew all my friends. I said, if you want to hang around me fine, but I'm going to, I'm going to tell you about Jesus. I just think this. How did that now? Now you ended up a pastor. And of course, now you've moved into this place. Really? You're a pastor of pastors. I travel and speak leadership. But what was your career path at the time, Rob? Well, I mean, what were you thinking about? You're 20. Hey, someday I'm going to do what? What was that? Oh, I had not. I mean, I really didn't. I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, at that time, I'm a typical Northern California refugee that is looking at New Mexico that are filled with a bunch of ex-cipies. You were a post hippie, era hippie. Yeah. And so I'm thinking, I, you know, I'm just thumbing along picking up this, doing that job. So you're there. No career path. Really nothing until that happened. Wow. And when that happened, it just pivoted my life. Wow. And pushed me. I didn't happen overnight, but pushed me in a direction to where one thing led to another, led to another. I met Ginger, her dad was a full-time minister. I end up working for him. I moved out passive Texas. I'd start helping him out and whatever I could. And, and from there, we end up, we moved back to New Mexico and we planned to church. Okay. So, and where did you meet Ginger? How'd that happen? How'd you meet your mom? Well, that's another story. I mean, you almost have to have, you have to almost have to know. Is this a whole, is this another show by itself? Well, I mean, it's a way forward, but it's just I end up doing it. So, yeah, well, her dad's, I find out that her dad's going to speak in this church in a little town south of Albuquerque called Los Luna's. And so I did here. So I think, well, I've got, I'll go. And then walks this 18-year-old girl, fresh out of high school, playing the guitar, leading worship for her dad. And that's how that happens. And so we sat. And that was that. That was that guitar. You're pretty saying, and you're done, you're toast. Yeah. So a few years later, we get married and we moved back and now her dad was in, she was from El Paso. Mm-hmm. And so you went, so you moved that direction and began helping the church. Yeah. So you got some help in that. Yeah. So now you get some background in church life. You're in the Word of God. You're telling people about Jesus. And you decided to move back to, and you married, and moved back to Albuquerque. And took over a massive church. Is that the way that went? How'd that start? I love this story. I'm just so, just so people know we've been friends for a number of years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. People, you know, if you've been here to an app and south of Albuquerque, there's a little, there's an Indian reservation called the Isleca Indians. And so they're, they're in the Bible study. My dad was doing a Wednesday night Bible study. Now here's the problem. My dad was extremely educated. Had a huge vocabulary. Was an admin reader. And, and they loved them, but they couldn't understand a word he was saying. Because his vocabulary is so over there. And so they, he, you know, his name was Bill. They said, we love brother Bill. We love brother Bill. We can't understand a word he's trying to tell us. No one is trying to tell us. Yeah. And it's just the way he was, you know, he was an, he was constantly educating himself in life. And so they asked me to do it. So I just, you know, I, I could realize, I think I could relate better. So it wasn't very long. We had that turned into a church. It started 19 January, 1980, 35 people, 34 women, one man. What was it for women, one man on an Indian reservation? On Indian reservation. I was tell people, I said, what can you do with 34 women and one man? And, and I say that purposely to try to draw it out, you know, because I said, I'll tell you what you can do. You can change the world. Well, we are on that reservation for a year and a half. And we got kicked off, which was quite a story because a person has to understand Indian reservations, especially in New Mexico. There are nations under themselves. They have their own judicial system. They're on the political system. They're on governors that are elected officials. Right. And you literally have no rights whatsoever. Yeah. And so, and rightfully so that we cut with the first nation. We got. Yeah. So you're in half into it. I got issued a formal decree from the Indian council that was given to me by the governor of the reservation. His name was, um, um, um, trying to think of his name right now. But anyhow, um, and it said, you must stop services immediately because you are a detriment to the Indian religion. And at first, I got excited. I mean, you know, I thought to myself, man, I got only my early 20s and I've already killed a religion. And, um, and then I realized this is this over with, this thing's over with. I mean, it's a great year and a half. We had people standing up outside. Uh, Frank Hoelan. That was the governor's name. Frank Hoelan. Oh, in other words, what happened, Rob? Is it too many people were coming to Christ? Oh, yeah. They were coming. It was, it was, uh, we had people standing outside. It was a little building, but we was jammed. I put a hundred and seven chairs in that thing with the 13 inch center aisle. I mean, if you were over five foot seven, you couldn't sit in it, because your knees were hit the chair in front of you. Then I'd people outside staring through a window. I mean, it was, it was a bonafide move of God. Yeah. It was a, it was a move of God. It was, uh, it was, uh, Lazarus's house. You know, they said, we got to kill Lazarus. The chief priest said, we got to kill Lazarus because on account of him, so many people were coming to Christ as a Lazarus renewal, man. That's incredible. So you guys get kicked off. Where do you end up? Well, it's one of the most, it's actually one of the most fascinating stories I've ever told, because we were going to do, I was going to do one more service. And I always talk about that. I said, you know, sometimes if I, I always tell people, stay married one more night, go to church one more time, pray one more prayer, because sometimes that's when the whole turnaround happens. So we're going to have one more service. And in that one more service, a woman that we had never, I've never seen her in my life stumbled in. I mean, she looked totally like a deer caught in the headlight. She stumbled in the middle of the service, raised her hand. I didn't know what to do. So I said, yes. And she said, I don't know where I'm at. And I don't know how I've got to know. And I thought, oh my God, my last service in the devil sends me some crazy woman. And then she told her story. She said, I was driving down the road. And I heard some music. And I came in here. And she said, and then she told me, she said, my sister owns a Catholic church in Alabama. Now, nobody personally owns a Catholic church. That the, you know, the diocese does. And so she told that. And I said, well, give me your sister's name. I took her name down her address, down a phone number down. I went the next day with Thursday. I went to see her and found her house knocked on her door told her who I was. I said, you own a Catholic church. She said, I do. I said, well, where is it? Well, she took me outside. There was a highway right there. She pointed across the street. It was an old, what we call a mission church built out of a doggies. And she said, I do. I said, can I rent it? She said, sure. I said, when she said, now, and we moved in, doubled. We doubled our attendance that Sunday. Stay there for a year and a half. I mean, the story goes on, you know, but stay there for a year and a half. We bought land. And I think you, I guarantee you'll remember this thing. We bought land from a guy by the name of Blackie Gonzalez. I knew Blackie for years. Now, of course she did. He was in the TV. And though, yeah, he was one of the pioneers in Christian television, Blackie Gonzalez. What a tremendous man. bought land from him, built on a 500 sheet auditorium, went to an 800 sheet auditorium, totally out through this thing, had nowhere to go. So this, I mean, so now church is booming stuff happening. And and and because now you have staff, you've got time to just chill out, relax, rest, and be healthy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's exactly what it was all. Yeah. You're actually when you were working to tail off with church growth comes a lot of struggles. A lot of things you don't know because there's more people. There's no us. Yeah. Yeah. We'll have stuff. That's right. That's right. That's right. You know, it's like if you find a perfect church, the minute you join it, it's no longer perfect. Well, that's right. Yeah. So what happened, Rob? You you've told this story. It's it's a really moving story. And if you don't mind, sharing it, I've heard it before. You did, you know, you're ginger married, got children, things are going well, but man, it's a stressful time. And and you hit the wall. We'll be right back with more of Paul's interview with Rob Carman. And you can get more information about Rob at his website RobCarman.com. So that's where you can go to learn more about Rob. cmn.man. We talked about the global summit at the beginning of the podcast. We've talked about some of the resources that cmn has streaming resources, cmn radio live 24x7. Also a lot of video resources all available from cmn.man. So when you have a chance, point your browser to cmn.man and get all that information, information, revelation as Paul says. Also we look forward to hearing from you here at the podcast. We really want to get your feedback. What do you like? What do you want to hear more of? Drop us an email, Paul at cmn.man. And that goes directly to Paul and our team here at the podcast. And we will read those and respond. That's Paul at cmn.man. Hey, let's get back to Paul's interview with Rob Carman. And you hit the wall. I did. I did, Paul. And you know, hindsight's 2020, when you're in the midst of it, you can't see the force for the treaties. You look back and you can see the, what I call it, the slow accumulation of toxicity and then begin to rest upon the human soul. The human soul, the emotional part of a man or a woman is fairly fragile. And it can stand under the weight of a certain amount of toxicity until it breaks. And when it breaks, it floods the human body and the human emotions. We call that clinical depression. And that's what happened. And I can look back at it. And I could see the process in the middle of it. I couldn't see it. We don't see the day-to-day toxicity that we allow to accumulate. I mean, we don't have to be told to take showers and baths. We don't have to be told to clean ourselves physically because we all understand that our body picks up to breathe every day and needs to be cleansed. We have no problem with that. But what we don't see is the accumulation of dirt or toxicity that begins to rest upon the human soul, which can be negativeism. It can be unforgiveness. It can be pressure. It can be stress that we never deal with that lays there. And because it's small at first, you can go unnoticed, but it layers itself until the day can come where it just breaks. And that's what happened to me. It seemed like from one day to the next, it just broke. And it feels like you're thrown into a pit of darkness that you can't get out of. And you're trying to, if somebody says, which is the worst thing you can tell somebody, well, just snap out of it. Well, yeah, if I could, I would. I don't know how. I would have, I would have given $10,000 if I would have had a friend at that moment that would have walked up to me instead. I know what's happening. And I'm going to stay with you. I'm going to help you get out of this. But you and I both know you go back in the church world, especially the church world of, of charismatic, full gospel, word of faith, to admit problems and to admit difficulties was almost taboo. And then for a pastor to admit it, you were, you were told it's going to weaken the rest of the congregation, which is why you just don't have faith, brother. You just, yeah, you have faith. This wouldn't happen. Yeah. You know, I don't care the background. It can be, you know, any other kind of protest center or, you know, Catholic background, and you could be told, well, you just don't have the consecration. You just don't have a deep conviction. I mean, there's any number of ways of people putting condemnation on us. It's, you remember, after World War II, guys would come back with what we know now as post-traumatic stress syndrome. Yeah. Yeah. And they'd be told, snap out of it. They call it being shell shocked. Yeah, shell shocked, that's right. Shell's eyes got shell shocked. It's a famous scene in Patton where he goes up to the guy and hits him and says, you know, just snap out of it. Well, you know, when you're in that, you can't snap out of it. That's why you're in it. What happened through that period, Rob? You know, my understanding is what you've told me before, is you end up having to actually just stop all your activities for a while. Well, I did. You know, I mean, I maintained preaching, which was difficult, but I maintained it. But everything else, I just, it just seemed like I was completely out of, out of touch with the staff. Ginger picked up all the loose ends, which was really difficult for her because she didn't really even understand what was going on. So she picked up the loose ends, you know, you've got your immediate team around you that you try to confide in a little bit that protect you, but I just felt completely out, you know, you're, you're, you're in a cave. And in that, I tried to, you know, position heal yourself. So I tried to do all kinds of self-rending. Maybe it's physical, maybe it's this, maybe it's that. Well, that led me on a journey that, which never helped, because, and it brought me to a place, because it just didn't go away. It was a month after, a month after, a month has ended up in the hospital. I ended up in the hospital, not because of that, but because, you know, well, maybe it's this, maybe it's that. So I did well, stressed, stressed, and all that. About four days in the hospital, when a young intern didn't know who the guy was. I mean, no, I didn't sit in on the hospital bed. This young guy walks in for whatever reason, sits down on the bed next to me, looks at me and says, you've got clinical depression. And you're going to have to change the way you live. And it's going to go away. He was going to take a while and he got to walk down. And it was the only time that I had some clarity up to what this was. Yeah. And it was slow. It's a slow process. And in that, let me say this. And in that, you, you reach out for hope. The Bible doesn't hope the anchor of the soul. Yeah. So sure and steadfast. So you want hope, you, and I got a phone call from a friend of mine that had been supported heavily at that time by Joyce Myers. She was doing massive crusades all over the world. They called me up. He said, Hey, I'm going to most and big. Now, excuse me, I'm Madagascar in September. We're doing a massive crusade. I want you to come. He said, I want you to do the pastor's conference. I'm going to 1800 pastors. We're going to have over 100,000 people. So I want you to be a part of it. And it was like a lifeline because it was that it was that inside of me, I didn't want to, but I said, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it because it was a hope. There was that window, something to latch on to something to climb out of. And now that was in September, this thing happened the beginning of the year. So now we're we're going to be nine months, but it was a slow process of climbing out. And as I did, the rays of light started coming. Just moments where it would lift and it would come back. Maybe a week it would lift and then try to come back. And it wasn't until afterwards that I begin to look back and discover how this thing happened. And then build into my life, what I would call changing the way you wake up, changing the way you go to bed, you know, to wake up in the presence of God and in that day, removing any accumulation of whatever that is off of your life. Just like what I had. A lifestyle changed based on the word of God that that then began to shift your mindset and heal yourself. But I think about this guy calling you and one of the things we've talked about for a little while with on Brave Men and with Christmas Network is that hope comes from the Lord, but it's delivered by people. That's good. Yeah. You know, it's the it's the call from a brother. It's somebody that says, Hey, pastor, you know, I'm praying for you. It's all good. I believe in you. You know, it's just a little, you know, in some of us know somebody we need to text right now. Some of us know somebody we could call right now. And sometimes we think, Rob, oh, it's just, you know, I can't offer him anything. All I can do is just give him a call, or all I can do is text him. You know what? That might make the difference in a man's day. And that day might make a difference in his week. And that week might make a difference in his month. And they might change the whole trajectory of his life. We don't know. It could. It absolutely could. It doesn't take a lot. And that's that's sometimes that's all you're reaching out for is somebody that believes in you or can put in jet hope. Just that one phone call, I want you to come. Wow. That, you know, that that that says you're not finished. Somebody believed in you. God believed in you. God has a future for you. And I said, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. And I look back at it. And I could remember because on that Sunday, it's a massive crusade. They estimated the 190,000 people make outdoor crusade. And I gave the altar call. And that's in 10 and a revo Madagascar. We estimate 100,000 people responded to Christ. And I had tears coming down and I thought, and I looked at that and I thought, devil, you thought you told me this was over with. And that just was the fulfillment of that hope, which then brings you to another hope and another hope and another hope is what you can take that wheel going in a positive direction. It's what they used to say. I remember Robert Schueller said years ago, live from peak to peak. And so you make decisions, good decisions when you're up. Yeah. And that leads you to another good one. We know hope leads to another cycle of hope, another cycle of hope. Yeah. Proverbs, I think it's Proverbs three or four, says the way of the righteous winds ever upward. That's good. And it is that. And because one thing leads to another. That's why for some of us, just getting up 15 minutes earlier in the morning to get in the word to read Psalms or proverbs for that day. Just the, you know, we're such home, you know, we're Western culture, basically, right? All of us who speak English, we're pretty much a Western culture, whether it's Singapore, Indonesia or here in the United States or Canada, where English speakers were pretty much kind of first world Western mindset, performance oriented, you know, hit a home run. What is it in cricket? Six, six run. You get a three goals in a game in soccer or football in Latin American. And so, you know, we have a tendency to want that. But hope is really rebuilt in our lives. Just one step at a time. It's apparently it's called in the Bible a helmet. Tell me about that. Well, it says put on the helmet. You know, when it talks about the armor of God, Ephesians, well, in that, not in that, that's in the phoenix in six, but in other places, Paul referred to it as the helmet. Yeah, hope. So it's something that affects your mind. It affects the soul. Hope is, like I said, is a in Hebrews is called the anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast. It's called a place of refuge where the Old Testament is cities of refuge that you can flee to. And you were safe. Hope is a place of refuge that you go to and hope is that confident, favorable expectation that the future is going to be fantastic. And, you know, God's the deliver of hope and hope is so powerful. Without hope, there's no faith. Well, hope is so powerful that it becomes what faith is made out of. It is. So tell me this now. So now you travel around the world. You speak leadership. You're in some of the largest conferences and, you know, organizations and so forth in the world. You speak to, you know, four to 500 groups and so forth and so on. But let's hit this right now because whether I'm a CEO of a major corporation or pastor of a church or a general manager of a of a local windies, you know, we all have pressure at different levels. Okay. So now that you look back and now that you're helping other people, what is it that I could do now to keep myself healthy, Rob, you know, for the end. Oh, by the way, let me mention this, your website. What's the website name? Yeah, just robcarman.com. RobCarman.com. And you have a Monday thought that comes out every week, right? We do. It's called the it's called the thought transformer thought transformer. That comes out every Monday. So I can get that by going to robcarman.com.com. So it's ROB C-A-R-M-A-N. That's correct. RobCarman.com. It would have been terrible if after all these years of friendship. I spelled your name wrong, wouldn't it? Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people do. That's why we want to be known. That would have been embarrassing. That's why I wrote it down in front of me. No, I'm teasing. Okay. So that's robcarman.com. And we can get that stuff. And then you've got the tools. You got leadership stuff. We do. We have the 412 on there. Incredible resources. Now, let me go back. How do I, how do I not get to, I don't want to be in the hospital. Okay. So I'm glad you went through that to help me not get there. What are some things I can do now today to keep myself healthy, to put myself in a healthy place? And I don't know, spiritual, physical, whatever, whatever it is, help us here a little bit. Well, I mean, there'd be a myriad of things, but the one big thing, the two big things that I would talk into, which I do a lot. I said, you can change a day. You can change a life. And we have to understand that God only, and that's the operative word, only gives life in days. He doesn't give life in weeks, months or years. We absolutely plan for the future because the book of Proverbs tells us to give us the example of the ant. But apart from that, I planned for tomorrow, but I could only live today. So we have to first understand that God only gives life in days. The average person has between 20,000 and 30,000 days, but they're only given to us one at a time. And so when we recognize that, when I tell people, you can set a goal, but sometimes you look so long range, all we have to do is live that day. So that's it. When we understand that God only gives life in days, how do we change a day? Well, I just did a whole new version, three day devotional on this. It should be out in the next two, three weeks. It's an English and Spanish. And I think it's entitled, yeah, change a day, change a life. And it's on the U version Bible app. Well, you're on U version with a couple of things. I've actually gone through a couple of your pieces. Yeah, yeah, this will be our fantastic word of one. But yeah, on that one, what I described and what I'll say now is, first of all, you got to change psychiatrists say, if you can change the first five minutes of a day and the last five minutes of a day, you can change the character of a day. You can change the character of a day. You can change the character of a life. Well, that's what they say. But Psalm 92 said, thousands of years before any psychiatrists ever came up with that. And the Bible said in the Psalm 92, that in the morning, you speak of his love and kindness. And in the evening, you speak of his faithfulness. So it's saying it's way ahead of science, it's way ahead of psychiatry. So I tell people, when you wake up, don't wake up and get up. So if you'll spend five minutes, the moment you wake up and just invite the presence of Jesus Christ, this is the day that you've made, Lord, today, just today, I'm going to rejoice. And let that just let that flow out of you. Not in a religious sense or or by memory, but from the heart, invite his presence. Think that he's actually there, going to lead you, guide you, direct you, that you're giving him the reins of your life today. And then God's right there, Jesus is right there, right beside you, in your room, just do that for five minutes, five six minutes, and then start your day with that. And then at the end, somewhere at the end of that, they just said, just have a 10 minute prayer or a five minute prayer that says, Lord, I just now remove from my mind any thought, thought, memory, idea, emotions that I've had today that aren't in harmony with your goodness. Is there any unforgiveness? I need any deal with any resentment, any bitterness, any unforgiveness, any attitudes that I've had towards other people. And let let let let it recirculate until the Holy Spirit puts his, he might put his finger on something. I just want to get negativity out. I want to get junk out of me. And then Lord, I thank you now for cleansing me and go through that again. And then you can't, you know, you never want to create a vacuum. So you can't remove something and just leave it. Whatever you remove, you have to fill it. Right. Otherwise, you'll create a vacuum in life. And we know what vacuum is to do. They suck in dirt. Yeah. And so you'll suck it back. In Jesus Christ, in Matthew chapter 12, we talked about the evil spirit coming out and nothing coming back in to fill the void. And then it returns and the person becomes seven times worse. So immediately then, say, Lord, I now thank you for filling me again with your love, with your presence, with your faith, with your hope, and just have that time. And if you'll just plan that day. And then during the day, I wrote, I wrote this in the devotion, or at least part of it. I said, enjoy, you know, if you like the smell of coffee, the smell of bacon, I mean, who wouldn't enjoy all that sun, the sun, the trees, the flowers, the rain, whatever it takes, just drink in the moments that you have. Life is made up of moments. And don't let them pass. If you're with your kids, drinking the moment, your grandchildren, drinking the moment, your wife, your spouse, drinking the moments of that day. And if you'll do that, that day will bring about a great day, which will bring about a great life, because all life is days. God only gives life in days. Wow. Fantastic. So that would be, I think if any person did that, they could change the character of a day, thus you'll change the character of your life. Dr. Rob Carmen, man, this is incredible, stuff. And I'm looking forward to people getting your Monday inspirational thoughts. Thank you for taking the time and thank you for being vulnerable and open on this, Rob, about dealing with these kinds of things, because it happens to all of us, because we're just human. And too often, we beat ourselves up, because, oh, man, I've got, I'm a doubting Thomas, or I'm a, on the other hand, Thomas ends up building the church and the entire, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm this, I'm that, and we so constantly put ourselves down, for this being human, God knows us. He knows we're human. And I'm looking forward to reading this in your book. Woon will that be out? Oh, you mean the, what all this stuff you're talking about right now? Yeah, I could never put in a book form. I know, I'm just pushing you on it. All right, so you were, so basically, basically what's on you version's going to end up being a book. So that, that works out great. Yeah. And you wrote a great article in church growth magazine. Yeah, that a lot of people, I mean, it was the highest red article, be me out. So, so I was fantastic. Anyway, Rob, thank you. And God bless you and Ginger. Oh, you're in Paul. Thank you. And, uh, been fantastic spending time with you. And thanks for being open on this stuff. And sharing with us some of the things that, that will help us towards health, because the enemy wants to just rip us off of our dreams, rip us off of our future and tell us, you know, all you're doing is a little, you know, just this small little thing on an Indian reservation. What could ever come out of that? Yeah. Today, you heard what could come out of that. Thank you for being on brave men, Rob. And we pray that every place you put your feet will be holy ground. Everything you put your hands to will prosper. And that the Father will keep you and your family and your beautiful wife deep within the grip of his favor in Jesus name. Love you, man. I love you, Paul. Thank you. So, Paul, you said Rob was larger than life. I think that even came through on the, on the interview today. Did he, did he punch you? Did he punch you? We did it on Zoom. We didn't do it live. I wouldn't do that live with Rob. I wouldn't, but the fact is, you know, he was so vulnerable and, you know, in sharing about, and there's so much more to the back story in terms of, you know, but that story of how all out of nowhere comes a building, they get kicked out of one. And, and a lady goes, yeah, a friend of mine owns a mission church. Who's a, a what? And then that whole story and then success and then bam, he's in the hospital. And then how he walked out of that. And I think Brian, you know, we look at that and we say, okay, well, that guy went to burnout. He, he was working too hard. He was doing this doing that. I think we are all in the world in which we live. I think we are all at a place where at any moment, we can tip into what, what might be called a burnout moment. And I think for us to, to have what, what he shared with us and for us to share with somebody else, what in fact, there's probably somebody that somebody that we know right now that's listening that you know somebody that you could share this podcast with say, man, you need to listen to this. And it's easy to do. Um, Apple podcast has a little share button. Really? Spotify has a share button. That's awesome. Uh, it's really simple to do. And um, so share button and subscription. Those two things. Subscriptions. Yeah. And, and you know what? That changes the algorithms too on the part of those companies where we're at, they go, oh, there's people engaging, uh, that kind of thing. It changes everything. So it really means a lot not only to us and to Rob, Carmen and Brian, but yeah, in terms of your friends and other people who will, uh, be able to hear these broadcasts. Well, week over week, you know, I, uh, I shared with you, Paul, recently, the analytics of the podcast and week over week, we're seeing a real increase in listeners. And, uh, I know it's no, no small part due to your amazing interviews that you're bringing us here and, and with great people, and just really downed earth. You know, I listened to your interview with, with Rob or John Tash or any of the folks recently. Mm-hmm. It feels like it's me, you and the interviewee sitting together. Yeah. It really feels like the three of us. And I think that's what the power of podcasting is. It's very personal and you're right in somebody's ear. And so, uh, yeah, we do look forward to hearing from you, uh, our listener and sharing it with your friends. If you don't mind, we, we really do, uh, love when, when we get subscribers and shares here. Yeah, you know, uh, you say listener and we are listeners, I listen to a lot of podcasts. But I, I, uh, when I am talking like we are right now, I, I feel like Brian, that you and I are talking with a friend of ours. And that's my sense. And that's my heart and spirit is that, um, where friends were in this together. We're trying to walk it out to be more like Christ, to be the man he designed us to be. And, uh, and here's some revelation. Here's some help. And, and so, uh, to our friends, you know, who are listening, you know, it really means a lot. Thanks for listening. And thanks we're getting in touch with us. Thank you. Yeah. Drop us an email at Paul at cmn.man. Paul at cmn.man. And we did this a few weeks ago, but the first person that emails Paul at cmn.man mentions the Rob Carmen podcast. We'll get a hat. We'll mail you a hat. It's a very cool hat. I wear one all the time. And, uh, especially during quarantine, because I don't comb my hair in the morning sometimes, Paul. So it's officially endorsed by quarantine people everywhere as a definite quarantine hat. So, uh, we'll mail you that now. So drop us an email. Hey, uh, we'll see you next time here on the Brave Men podcast for Paul Cole. I'm Brian Boyd. Have a good day. You've just experienced Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole. Paul is president of the Christian Men's Network. Connect with Paul at cmn.man or write to him at Paul at cmn.man.