Brave Men S2E30: Chad Hennings - From Fighter Jets to the Super Bowl

I was at the Super Bowl in Atlanta, Judy and I. We went in there. It was against Buffalo. And one of the things that happened that day, aside from a young man named Larry Brown, who won the MVP, Brian, it was a, it was kind of a fluke thing because of what he did in the game with his interceptions and so forth. But I watched Chad Hennings and this guy, he won three Super Bowls in four years, part of the team that did that with the Dallas Cowboys. And Judy and I were at one of those Super Bowls in Atlanta. And I watched Chad Hennings play. And this guy, he won the Outland trophy for the, it's the trophy for the top, you know, defensive player and football in when you're in college. And he won at the Air Force Academy. And you know what, what was interesting about him, not, you know, fascinating thing was that he just made every play right. He just did everything right. He's defensive lineman and he just held the line in the Cowboys just overwhelmed the bills in that particular game. And so it was really fun to meet Chad Hennings and talk to him about excellence because he went into business after the Cowboys when he left in 2000. And he just stands for excellence. And then to talk to him about his Christian faith and why he started a thing called wingman, which came out of the fact that he flew, you know, he was a Air Force aviator and actually flew in combat missions. And to talk to him about that and to actually, you know, sometimes Brian, you get sort of around somebody and it just lifts you up. Sure. I love those people. Yeah. Makes you feel larger. Makes you feel like makes you feel like and you know, it's great to be a person. Yeah. It's just it's just too bad. The Seahawks are the best team in the league. You know, well, here's the deal. I'll introduce you to you personally. And I know he's a nice guy. He'll still take you out. Yeah. When I graduated from college, I graduated from Old Roberts University back in the day, Paul. And went back to Seattle and worked for the Seahawks for about a year and ran game camera. You know, the game camera that follows the game back and forth and ran that camera for about a year and worked really hard, but really enjoyed that time and got to be back back, you know, backstage, in locker room and all that. But what a great opportunity for you to interview not only a leader in business and in sports and but a philanthropist and a a Christ follower. Yeah. That's just that's exciting. He's an amazing guy. I think you're going to love this today on Brave Men. It's Brave Men with Paul Lewis Cole, wisdom and courage for the journey. I'm on with Chad Hennings and Chad played football. You're in the air force. You've started a ministry. You've done commercial real estate development. All these accomplishments, but for my world and my family, just personally, we remember you in the Super Bowls. You're three times Super Bowl champion, which is a pretty amazing thing. Who's the let's do sports first and then we'll get into some of the other stuff that's really important, right? But man, who was one of the toughest guys? You want it because you're defensive defensive tackle mostly, right? Yep. Okay. And you're six six six six to play it 285 to 90, right? Something like that. And who's the toughest guy you ever went up against? You know, actually probably the best guy I've went up against was my teammate Larry Allen. So I got about him every practice. He was a hollow favorite. Yeah. When any man can bench press 750 pounds, you have to pull times. Yeah. You have to respect that. But we had great rivalries. It was against the whole lines where that was San Francisco, Green Bay, Philadelphia Eagles. There were some great rivalries back in the day. Yeah, they really were. And then when you had Charles Haley playing next, you play with some characters, man, Michael Irving. You know, we had a lot of there's a lot of levity in the locker room. Put it that way for Michael Irving, Nate Newton, Julian, yeah, Frank Cornish. Yes. And Charles Haley were reminiscing down all these names. But these guys really would cut each, I mean, do what guys do, you know, write each other, tease each other. And you know, all in love. But man, it was some hilarious. I've never laughed so hard my life. But it's sitting there being entertained. But they pushed each other to excellence. I mean, to me, you know, what every man desires is, is a sense of belonging, a sense of purpose, and a sense of brotherhood that I'm part of something. And in a microcosm of brotherhood, that's what a sports team is. And I think that's what we're supposed to be as Christians at same exhilaration that you felt is seems to me like the church has lost a lot of that. Yeah, amen. You know, we long to be part of the body of Christ, which is, you know, Jesus utilized several analogies. They're team analogies. What's your role? What's your strength? Play to your strength? Play to your role. Not everybody's going to be, you know, all-star wide receiver are the all-pro quarterback. Some guys need to be special teams. Some guys need to be managers, trainers. It takes a whole team concept to win super balls. And it's certainly in this game we call life. And living excellence, it takes a team where everybody brings their best self to the table every day. Yeah, you know, one of the things we've been talking about recently, I've been talking about Chad is that, you know, hope comes from God, but it's delivered by people. And so brotherhood is that thing that stirs us up and that helps us cope with, you know, like right now in this COVID-19 crisis, you know, we need each other. Oh, more so than ever. And I think I think we chatted about this potentially before, and the fact that, you know, before this current pandemic of the Wuhan virus, there was the epidemic of the isolated male. Yeah. We're men, you know, we're afraid to reveal that they had any chinks in their armor, that, that, you know, they didn't have it all together, that everybody was Rambo or Gary Cooper at high noon, that they could take on the world by themselves. And they're afraid you admit any type of frailty and be transparent. And that's, you know, that's a shame. You know, what's fascinating to me is that the fastest growing, you know, particularly under the pressure we're in now, we're seeing this exacerbated, which is suicide, drug abuse, alcoholism, just going rampant, angry men at home, we've sent young, we closed the schools, we sent millions of young people back into a pressure cooker. In fact, the only safe place they had was school. But, you know, I see this thing and it seems to me that one of the things that that we're dealing with with men is there's this latent pent-up sort of, I know I've got a purpose, I just don't know what it is. You know, and it feels like, and you started a ministry called wing men in order to deal with that. Why am I here on the earth? What does it you speak to men about in that? You know, one of the things, and I'll just kind of share a little information on why I called it wing men, because when I was a jet fighter pilot, flying eight ends where that was a training or combat mission, I would never go on that mission solo. You know, to have one wingman or a group, we call it a, a, a force ship of, of jets that would go trying to accomplish a specific task. So anytime that, you know, when I would fly a mission, a combat mission in northern Iraq, and I'd fly out, and when we were flying home, we would do what we called a battle damage check, where I would look over my wingman, look below him above him, side to side to see if he had any leaking fluids. If he took any, you know, I thought we were, uh, surface air missiles or any aircraft were, were being shot at us, but you'd check your wingman over. And if there was a malfunction, I had an emergency procedure where, on a ferry flight from England to, uh, insulate Turkey, where we were flying our missions out of, um, I lost an engine over the Mediterranean Sea. Wow. And if the A-10 isn't very much an underpowered aircraft to begin with, so I'm flying off of one engine, I had three other, of my wingman with me, one guy would navigate, another guy would do the calls, another guy would read the checklist, emergency checklist out of the three to make sure that I was taking care of, in my sole job was just fly my jet, fly my jet. So we worked together as a team for, for me, ultimately to, to land that plane, and I landed at Sudabay on the island of Crete, a naval air station. Wow. And safely got there, but it was that whole concept of what a wingman does. And that's why I named it wingman. Our ministry is because through life, we all need wingman, men that just, whether we're in combat in a, in a, in a role sometimes when life happens to us, or if we're just going to like, we need those relationships where we can be transparent, where we can, you know, accept a firm and hold each other accountable. Yeah, there's no such thing as a one man army. Uh, in fact, a one man army is already defeated. Exactly. You know, the thing is is that, uh, you know, what I was, what I was going to mention a minute ago is that, is that in the culture we're in right now, in all this pressure, suicide rates have gone up. The fastest growing segment of suicide rates is the age of somewhere between 48 to 64. Now check this out. The fastest growing states, in other words, per capita that are growing fastest in that age group of suicide of men are Montana, Wyoming, and Alaska. And here's what's fascinating to me, Chad, about that is those are the states in which we so often celebrate the, the lone rider on a horse, you know, the, the, the man facing down the challenge by himself and it's that individualism and that individual, those states are known for that, in a sense, and yet that's where suicide rates growing because there's nobody to talk to. You know, and so when you do wing men and you've written three books also, so what's the website for wing men? You know, wing men with a knee, the plural version of wing men, wing men dot org, or wing men dot org. Okay. So I want guys and in our, your books available on that site are, you go to my, I have a personal website, Chad Hennings dot com. Chad Hennings dot com. All right. So those are the two sites. So I want to, I want guys to know about that. Chad Hennings dot com. And then we'll put that up in the comments and then wing men dot org is the, is the, the ministry. And you know, the football thing, what, what is, what did you carry? We know we're talking about the locker room and the fun you guys had. There was also some issues going on. You also played under three different coaches. I was actually, I think I played under five. I was drafted by Tom Landry, but I was serving my commitment. Right. Jimmy Jones, Barry Switzer, Chan Galey and Dave, Dave Campbell. So I had four, that's super balls were Jimmy Johnson and Switzerland. Correct. Yeah. So those are two characters right there, man. They were diametrically opposed leadership styles on the total obscenes, the spectrum, one of micromanager one of kind of a laissez-faire as long as you show up for the plane on time. I don't care what you do. You know, I loved, I loved the story of Switzer in between when he was a college coach because he won national championships. And they were in a national championship or in a bowl game at the time. There wasn't a championship game. They're in a bowl game. And at halftime, he went in and called a bunch of his recruits for the following year. I said, what do you think of the game? He's the consummate sales guy. I love Barry Switzer. That was Switzer. And of course, he's very successful in business. Most people don't know that. But he, yeah. But Johnson would be totally opposite, right? He's in the meticulous of X's and O's and what's happened. He would never have made that call, right? Yeah, was on top of very much the micromanager. His finger was on the pulse of the teeth constantly. Yeah, pretty amazing. So two different styles and yet both of them champions at different levels. What is it in the heart of a man that enables him to move to a place of excellence? As you, because you've coached, you've been in business, you've done all these things, Chad. What is it in a man's life that moves him to a place of excellence? For me, it's no nice self. What's your identity? You know, so many guys today, and this is where you talk about suicide rates and substance abuse is because a lot of times men put their identity in what they do or how much money they we make. That's how we keep sure. Yeah. You know, so what you do is not define who you are and when you're unemployed, underemployed, or looking for the new job, you really struggle with who am I? Why am I here? What's my purpose? But that's where, you know, for me personally, I struggled with the identity concept because my whole identity was based on one based on performance, like a lot of guys. It's growing up with great American work ethic. It's all about what you achieve, accomplishments, et cetera. And, you know, through my personal testimony, what we can maybe tap into at some other point in time, I came to a point in my life where I couldn't control the outcome. And that's where I really cried out to God, you know, God helped me. Where was that? Tell me about that. Where was that? It was actually after the third Super Bowl. We had won. We won three Super Bowls in four years. My son, Chase, who was two and a half years old at the time, three weeks after we won the Super Bowl. And actually, we talked about Reggie White and our pre-interview here on how great of a man he was. I had a Super Bowl record for a year. I had two sacks and then Reggie White broke at the next year when they played New England. But, yeah, that's funny. But my son got sick and it was one of those aspects literally overnight, just bang. He ended up long story short. He had an unimmune illness, but there were times where high fevers, rash, inability to walk, physicians kind of like in this coronavirus period where they didn't know what the heck's going on. How to diagnose it. Nothing was really prevalent. And that was the only time in my life where I couldn't overcome. I couldn't fix it, you know, from being one of the strongest guys in the Cowboys to make money. You went to the Air Force Academy, you nailed that. You were in high school. You got all kinds of offers to you. You'd just been through life and bam, nailed that. Bam, nailed that. You're flying. It's called a war hug, isn't it? Yeah, correct. I mean, you flew. And that was because of your height. Was that part of the reason one of the only planes I could say, let me fly. You could fit in. And then, so you nail all these things and now all of a sudden, here you are at the apex, top of the world, and there's something that you can't control. Yeah, and that's where, for me, I discovered that identity is the key to everything. That's the foundational mindset that you have that can accomplish whatever. And I've realized that I've been able to do a lot of different things, but ultimately, so what? My legacy is not going to be based upon Super Bowl Champion, how much money I'm going to leave to my kids, whatever the accomplishments are, my accolades, by the plaques I have hanging in my office wall here, my legacy is going to be based upon relationships. Who I am, who I've been able to impact. My kids, my wife, those men that I've meant toward, that's to me, what identity is about. So for me, living excellence as we're talking about, it's first and foremost, identity, I use a mathematical equation, identity, plus integrity, equals excellence. What you do in life, if you know who you are, that our whole purpose is, men, if you profess a belief in Jesus Christ as your learned Savior, as to worship Him, and to make His name known, right? Make disciples what you're all about. And you do that, no matter if you're a coach, a teacher, a lawyer, a real estate professional, it doesn't matter what you do, you do it for the Lord, and you do it with excellence, with humility, with courage, listen to others, serve a leadership, that's what living life with excellence is about. Yeah, you know, for me, you know, because God has called us to gather together in the church, of course, we're doing it online now, but we gather together as a band of brothers, in a brotherhood. And in that, to me, the issue is for too much of our Western culture, we've been performance-based, and we've been basically saying, okay, you've got so many people in the seats, but my thing is the true measure of a church is not how many people are in the seats, but how many disciples you put in the streets? Amen. That's where it's at, and that's why I appreciate Wingman and your books and the materials, and, you know, and, you know, all the things you've, you've done. Hey, this is Brian Boyd, your co-host here at Brave Man, and we'll be back in a moment with more of Chad and Paul's talk, and I tell you what, it's great. But right now, I want to remind you of a couple quick things. C-M-N dot men. C-M-N dot men is a great location to go. It's the other location to go to get updates on Paul, Christian Men's network, and all of the collateral and resources that are there for you to become a better husband, a better father, a better office, office guy, or whatever you do, whatever line of work you're in, there's something for you, you know, when I grew up, Edwin Lewis Cole, Paul's father met a whole lot to me, and his book Maximized Manhood changed the course of men around the world, and Paul and his team carry that mantle, and you'll want to go to C-M-N dot men to get that information. Next, hey, this coming Monday, and every Monday for the near future, 9 o'clock Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific. I don't know what time that is in Hawaii or London to do the math, but 9 o'clock live is C-M-N Monday night men. It's almost 30 minutes long, it's Paul one-on-one with you, and there's great, great content, and very topical content for you right out of Paul's heart. It's live on YouTube. In fact, it's so easy to get to. Go to YouTube and search for Monday night men, and you'll go right there, you can put a reminder, and 9 o'clock Monday night you can watch it. Of course, it's available on demand after Monday, but you'll want to watch it live. It's really, really cool. And so be sure and check those out, and if you want to get more information from Paul, drop him an email, Paul at C-M-N dot men. That's Paul at C-M-N dot men, and he reads every email that he receives. Let's get back to the interview with Chad and Paul. Tell me what happened to your son. Let's finish that deal. Yes, we went through that whole process for years. He ended up, as I said, having an auto-immune illness where his body, we were assuming that he had a reaction to an immunization, where his body turned against itself and was attacking itself, he had all these symptoms, but we kind of got it stabilized after years, years, and after he went on and graduated from college. He has some physical limitations now, but he's a great kid, full-time job, dating a nice young lady. I mean, all things do work for the good, ultimately, and he loves the Lord, and he's plugged in, serving in the church, so I'm I'm very proud of it. That's fantastic, man. That's a great story, and you have two children, right? Yeah, I have a daughter who, just graduated from college, just last year, and she's doing some continuing education courses. Yeah, fantastic. Congratulations on that, and then your son's about to be married, is that what you said? No, he's dating. I don't want to move that long too fast. Don't accelerate that fastener that needs to. Man, no kidding. That's scary. Exactly. So tell me about your father. My dad? Yeah. My, you know, that's, I grew up on a farm in Iowa, and I got a work with my dad, you know, when I wasn't in school later, but you know, every day in the summertime, my brothers and I, and my grandfather was there too. We, I grew up on a family farm that had been in our family for 135 plus years. Wow. Very generational. So I learned all about the aspects of we fed cattle, we raised corn and soybeans. So it was a lot, you know, something to do every day, all day long. Oh, yeah. That's where it, no matter how you felt, you didn't feel well. Who's going to feed the cattle? You know, you got to get out there and do it. Nobody else knows. Nobody else is going to do it for you. Kind of like the, you know, postal worker, right? Mailman. Rain, sleets, snow or shine. But my dad was a quiet man. He, he came to the Lord later in life. Before he married my mom, um, it was baptized and, you know, their relationship was as such that I learned, it was about attitude, positive thinking, and a lot of those intansible traits, not that he verbalized those, but I, but he modeled it, modeled it very well. Extremely hardworking young man, man, and, and I knew that, uh, I knew he loved me. He pretty much, my mom and dad made it to everyone in my college football games. They drove, you know, 900 plus miles to the Air Force Academy from where I grew up. And I love that. To me, that, that showed a lot of dedication as well as, uh, how much, you know, he loved the sacrifice that he had to make. Yeah. You know, to be there. That's pretty amazing. The fact that, that when you said he modeled it for you, to me, it's, it's sort of like this. My dad taught me this. He said, uh, children may not always listen to you, but they will always imitate you. Amen. I had, Chad, I was playing golf with a guy. My kids went over here to Fort with Christian, and I was playing golf with one of the other dads because our boys played, uh, my sons played basketball, were their main sport. Well, they played everything, but basketball was one that they ended up in. And so I'm, I'm with one of the other dads were playing golf, and, and at the end of it, uh, he's complaining about his son. And I think it, in fact, they had just graduated, and his son's a freshman at, at SMU. And he's complaining about him, just not being serious and, and he's messing up and he's drinking too much and all this, he's just complaining about it. And finally, and I knew this guy a little bit, finally I go, you know, now we talk about it. And I said, I, with not a condemning way, I said, you know, here's the, the issue, man, is it sure will may not always listen to you, but they'll always imitate you. Man, he came unglued, he, he got up, we're over at the Irving Club over here and, and he goes, if he did that, if he was like me, he'd be successful, he'd be grinding, he'd be, you know, all this stuff, right? Only to find out about a year later, Chad, this man owned a series of banks and some other stuff, only to find out he got indicted for fraud. He had multiple affairs going on. He had all this stuff that nobody knew about, but his son was actually replicating what he saw in his dad's spirit. Amen. Yeah. And I think that's key. So for your dad and so for most of us as men, most men listening right now probably didn't have that kind of upbringing. So I thank God for that. How has that adjusted how you parent? Because obviously you reached this point with Chase and you remember the moment where you actually prayed or was it a series of moments that you prayed and said, God, I'm just done trying to control it. It was over time. I mean, it wasn't one of those snappy fingers. It was a continual aspect of brokenness to give me to the point. I had a lot of armor that I had placed up. And you know, I still do. And I think that's one of the key components just as a quick sub or as men is we need to be self aware of who we are. As we as men, we can rationalize any thought, any words, any behaviors that we have. And we need to be aware that before we criticize anybody else, you know, look at yourself, you know, pull the plank out of our own eye before we look at another brother's eye. But how might I've tried to parent was one of the things might I grew up in that generation where your dad never really told you you loved you. Right. You know, you knew it, but he did what didn't verbalize it. Yeah. And wasn't necessarily an affectionate, but for me, I tried to be very much so hugging my kids, telling my love them every day when I come home, give them a big hug. How was your day when I when they leave our drop off at school? How you doing? You know, and just try to be there in their lives. You know, it was I perfect at it. No, there were times in the being totally transparent when I was playing for the Cowboys, when my kids were really young. There be times where I'd be home physically. But mentally, I'm still thinking about the game. Checked out. I'm thinking about practice. What I got to do that next time. And you know, wasn't there for my wife? Was there for my kids? You know, my wife and her loving man are pointing it out to me as my wingman saying that, you know, you need to get better on that. Take time for people. And that's something that in that performance-based mentality, you know, for me, how I think I truly am wired, I have to be self-aware and watch those check myself to make sure that I'm plugging along the way that God wants me to be. So parenting style, you know, I try to be more hands-on, love my kids, be affectionate, and in my kids know. I mean, I'm confident my kids know that I love them because I tell them all the time. You know, that's that's huge. I had it. I get a number of guys who ask me, you know, what's the most important thing I do for my kids? And I know they want this spiritual sort of one, two, three. And I usually start with, I don't know, maybe just hugging the guy and giving him a kiss on the cheek. And they're like, no, I mean, what do I do? No, I'm serious, man. Man, my kids are older than yours and my boys are still in their 30s and they're professionals. You know, but they know they're going to get a hug and a kiss from dad. Yeah, you know, and I think there's something about that. And then the other thing that you mentioned about your dad is being present. And the thing that you didn't do is you were there, but you weren't present. I think being present's huge chat. Now, that began to shift and change it. And your wife helped you make that transition. Amen. Amen. And that's, you know, I read an very interesting book. Don't necessarily agree with some of the solutions, but the book called The Boy Crisis. And I forget the gentleman's name, who wrote, if it's called, it's William Farrell. Yeah, William Farrell's book. Yeah. You know, great research book on that, but he talked about the importance of the father just where they get their hair on my desk. Yeah. That's it. Great book. I don't necessarily agree with some of his solutions that he had. None of them actually, but, but he diagnosed with the issue very well. And one of the things that I pulled from that was that when there was a father in the home, a male influence in the home, with young kids, it actually impacts them physically, physiologically, by their lifespan. Yes. I mean, they did the study if you recall in the telomeres, which are an indication on your cell of longevity of life. Those young kids, particularly young males, that didn't have a father. There was like a 14, 15% decrease in the length of the telomeres, which means these kids' lifespan is shortened just because the father is not present in the home. Yeah. He had one study. Remember this where he was looking at what works. And right in the middle of the book, it's about page 220 or something in the hardback, he said he goes to and watches his Catholic priest with these young boys and watches their self-awareness and their sense of identity growing in them. And he says in that book, he said, he said, basically, what I'm looking at is possibly the solution to all of this is something that the priest would call father God. And I thought, man, that guy, you know, I mean, he's a research guy. John Gray helped him write it. So that's pretty amazing. Now, so you've been involved in all this and Ken Harrison, who's a mutual friend. You guys are very close. He has taken over and heading up promise keepers, which I'm buying into what he's talking about. I think he's got a great sense of balance and the vision of picking up from a man who has been a very dear friend, Coach Bill McCartney. In fact, 1986, it was when I met Reggie, Coach Bill McCartney put his hand on my back. He had just taken already, just left both Shimbekler staff and was just taking over Colorado. And as soon as it may have been 87 and he put his hand on my back and he said, I'm going to pray for you every day. And every time I've seen him, which has been multiple times since then, we know he's not in good health right now. He would look at me and go, you know, I'm praying for you. I go, I know you are, Coach. He's an amazing guy. And Ken Harrison, I think, has picked up, you know, if you will, a new vision, a modern vision, but the same temperature. And you're on that board now with promise keepers. Tell me why you join that and what your sense is about where that's headed and why it's needed today. Yeah, I same sentiment about Coach McCartney, Coach Max. What a visionary and a guy who's passionate knew his purpose as a coach and changing the lives of young men. So I applaud PK. I went to PK event at Old Texas Stadium. Yeah, in the early 90s. And what an impactful feeling to be there when you had whatever there was, 40 some thousand guys, you think it's an amazing grace. It brought chills. It really brought chills up and down. But Ken, no, I joined the board because, you know, like you and I, we see this aspect as we talked about the epidemic of the isolated male. Yeah, guys to pull them out of their shells, it takes other guys. And it's not a program, another program in a church, it takes a bottle of wine is what it takes is one man to reach out to another guy, put their arm around him and say, Hey, follow me, come with me, come check this out. And I mean, it's not rocket science. And that's where PK is not the end all. PK is going to be, I think, can be utilized as a spark to ignite a powder keg. But this is where we need the big sea, the body of Christ, the men that listen to your podcast to realize, I've got a role in this. Yes, it does. Yeah, that I no longer have a luxury to sit on the side. I sit on the bench and expect some other pastor or pair ministry leaders to go out and to to disciple. Yes, it's a God commands me to do that. So that's what promise keepers. I think Ken's vision to hold one event, you know, once a year, July 31st, August 1st, right before the football season kicks off every year in a different NFL city. Yeah, it's brilliant. Just to gather men together once a year to remind us of this calling, but it's going to take the church, it's going to take pair ministry organizations, it's going to take the whole body of Christ to actually execute and to accomplish the mission. It's like, okay, from a military perspective, we're going in PK, we're going in, we're getting our mission brief. Yeah, guys, this is where we're going to go. This is how we're going to attack. We're going to be motivated, you know, get that general pat speech. Yep. Now go up and do it and everybody's called their own strength, their own ways, their own relationships. You can do it. Just go and do it. You know, just do the Nike model, just go and just do it. And that means utilizing your ministry for materials. But it's just caring about other guys and just committing to meet on a regular basis. You know, that's the way I go in PK. Yeah, that's it right there, man. It is one on one. You know, I was talking to the psychologist the other day on our masterclass that we're building for majoring in men. And they, he said, the average person in their lifetime will impact the lives of 82,000 people. By your words, your actions, some, in some way, you actually help touch the fabric of who they are. So every single man has a has a role somewhere in this single married, older, younger. You know, I think about the man who's our chairman of our board, Bishop Dale Bronner, who when he was 13, organized Bible studies in his, in his school. And at 13 years of age, impact of the lives of people that he's still now 40 years later still hears from. You know, so, so this thing, what I like about the PK thing that the, that Ken's talking about and you guys are involved in and that we're supporting is that it's about stirring things up. And it's not just about the stadium. The stadium is the tip of the spear so that what happens is that men do take responsibility and say, yeah, I need to text that guy. I need to call a guy. I need to grab a guy on a face time or whatever the Skype or something call and just check in with them and see how he's doing and see what's up. And then maybe I can hand them, you know, one of your books or, you know, here's, here's a website for wing men or here's the meeting in grapevine or here. You know what I'm saying? Exactly. Might bring that kind of thing. Everybody has a role. So man, I could talk about this stuff all day, but I know you've got stuff. But man, thanks for being with us Chad. And we pray, blessings on your family, you and your wife and family, your business, your ministry, wing men. Pray that every place you put your feet is holy ground. Everything you put your hands to, it'll prosper and that God will keep you in the center of his favor in the days and years to come. And thank you for taking the hits and the pain that it takes to do what you do. Because these taking ground doesn't come easy. Amen. So we bless you and we thank God for your Chad. Thank you. Thanks for, thanks for the time man. God bless you bro. Paul, that was another really great interview and it's so amazing you're able to get time with Chad to have this talk. I don't know how you cornered him, but that was just incredible. You know, the thing about guys like this and a lot of the, well, it seems like everybody we get to talk to every time we do a podcast. You know, this, he's so passionate about what he believes in and there's no equivocation. It's not like, well, you know, that kind of did this, not. He's a man who built some plans in his life, built some strategies. And when he talked about, you know, his principles of business and living, it wasn't just something that, you know, it was like he read it in a book the other day. I thought this would be cool in the interview. These, these came out of his life, you know, as if you've, you know, a lot of us are just listening to this, but if you see the video on the video, you can see and he's just, he's responding. He's not reading prompts. He's not looking at notes. He's just responding out of the depth of his life. And, and, you know, that's a kind of guy, like I said before, it just makes you a larger person when you're around him. It's awesome. Yeah, you know, I think you wake up in the morning and you look in the mirror and you start beating yourself up. And it's too soon to do that. And then you hang out with people who don't maybe lift you up. And I'm not saying I even know how to do that, Paul, but, but I, I think we need to spend more time with those kinds of folks, you know, I don't know. Well, here's what do you do during the day if you're hanging out with someone that's bringing you, I mean, practically, how do you do that? Well, look at it. Look at it this way. Jesus hung out with a lot of different people and he was called a friend of sinners. And one of the big accusations against him was when the, when the, when the guys who were the head of the temple and the chief priest, they go, they say, he hangs out with bad people, you know, and, and he did, but he didn't spend all his time there. In fact, the majority of his time with the men that he was discipling, the people that he was around, you know, a Lazarus, his Lazarus, his sisters, you know, his half brothers, all those people. So, you know, we can kind of, if we're not careful, we can put toxic people in our lives so much that that stuff rubs off. You know, it's kind of like bad morals always corrupt good character. And it's true. Yeah. That's true. Well, thank you, Paul, for that. And, and, and sharing your interview with Chad, a reminder, if you'd like to ask a question, or if you have a suggestion for the podcast, we'd love to hear from you. Paul at cmn.men. That's Paul's direct email and he will get your email and respond. Paul at cmn.men. For Paul, I'm Brian Boyd and we'll see you next time on The Brave Banditons.